Records of the Kirk of Scotland / containing the Acts and Proceedings of the General Assemblies from 1638 downwards, as authenticated by the clerks of assembly.

by Church of Scotland. General Assembly

Sessio 12.—To meit at 9 a clock [Aug. 22.]

After prayer, the Moderatour said—We trust that the Assemblie hath a right construction of the lazarlie proceedings of the Assemblie. The Lord was graceous unto ws this last weeke in bringing our privat businesses unto a publict and unanimous conclusion. This weeke, also, hath been spent in prepairing matters for your greater satisfaction. That our proceedings may offend none, but give contentment to all in reasone, we have to doe now with the Reportes; and, becaus the particular cases of them who were processed before the severall Commissions are many, we must put difference betweene the faults and repentance of men, that none may in justice complaine, but that he is dealt justlie and moderatlie withall.

The Commissioner said—I desire that everie thing be rightlie understood, that there be no mistake betwixt his Majestie, or me his servant, and this Assemblie concerning these deposed ministers. I have alreadie spocken my mynd in it, and in no other termes but that the state of your processes be so taken to this Assemblies consideration, that if they be found worthie of deposition, let them be deposed. But for such of them that are only guiltie of the errour of the tyme, whereof our Master hes beene guiltie (this is an ill wealed word, but I know it is so taken) as their refusing to subscryve to the constitutions of that controverted Assembly at Glasgow, which they have done by his Majesties speciall commandment, and according to the light of their consciences, which they thought right then, I shall only represent to the Assemblie whither or not they thinke our Master may expect from us that such ministers who for life and doctrine shall be found fitt to exercise the calling of the ministrie upon their submitting of themselves to this Assembly, to the determinations of this Kirk, should not be restored to their places? I speake it to this end; and I beseeche yow take it right, that since our Master goes so farr on our way with us in removing all the occasions of our feares, and hath appoynted to this Assembly to try whither these ministers deserves such a sentence now if they shall submitt themselves to this Assembly? I only represent to your consideration, whither in some things we ought to doe that that may satisfie our Master?

The Moderatour answered—We intend equitie and moderation, that none shall have just cause to complaine. In the meantyme, becaus it is incumbent to this Assembly to cleare their mynds towards his Majestie, I will speak a little. I will not admitt to say so much as your Grace hath said. We will not let that much imputation to goe from us so high as to speake of guiltinesse in his Majestie, who hes not bein brought up heir. We will lay the guiltinesse upon the ministers, who should have knowne the constitutions of the Kirk of Scotland; and, therefore we heare plead that his Majesties honour may be cleared, and they seene to be in the calk. This I speake not, but this Assembly may shew all moderation and favour to those whom his Majestie requires, in alse farr as we wrong not trueth, and the libertie and constitutions of the Kirk.

The Commissioner answered—I believe the most of these men that declyned the last Assembly, they did so upon ane of two grounds—either becaus they could not thinke lay Elders to be lawfull members of the Assembly, or becaus their judgment went not along with us anent Episcopacie, in both which our Masters judgment was ane and the same with them. Yet now, upon their acknowledgment of their errours in these, and submitting themselves to this Assembly, I only remitt it to your consideration if yow can thinke yow should deale so strictlie with our Master, who hes condiscended so farr to our desires, that he may not expect something may be done in this, since it may be done without prejudice to the Constitutions of the Kirk whereof yow pretend yow are so tender. Therefore I desire this Assemblie to consider wiselie of it, and not to be led away with your aune particulars—their spleene at these men or their affection to others whom they would have in their roume.

The Moderatour said—It is our purpose to put a difference betwixt those who have only done according to their light in these two things your Grace mentions, and betwixt those whose life and doctrine have beine scandalous, and to shew all the moderation to that sort that your Grace desires.

The Commissioner said—I believe some of the members of this Assembly, who were appoynted yesternight to speake with me, dealt so ingenuouslie with me as to say, that although there were many things alleadged against these ministers, yet could they not be legallie tryed, except with these things that I have alleadged; for though they were scandalous in some thinges, yet could there be no formall proces led against them. Now it is a dangerous position, that a man shall be condemned for suspicions, becaus his air and the way of his carriage agries not with others. Let us looke to it; for though in their judgement they would not subscryve the Covenant nor allow lay elders, yet to sentence them for that, I thinke it a dangerous rule.

The Moderatour answered—Grants to your Grace; but so purpose we to proceed that our moderation shall so appeare as your Grace shall consent als willinglie as we.

The Moderatour desired Mr Andro Ramsay, Mr Alexʳ Henrysone, and Lord Lowdoun to declair their judgments.

Mr Andro Ramsay said—I thinke there is no man but he will applause to your Grace in general; but as for the particulars, they who are judges can cognosce better, and upon their relation the judgment of the Assembly may rest; for, as I said yesterday, there are four causes of their removing or deprivation from their Kirks; either becaus they have not consented to the Acts of the Assembly, or becaus they have deserted their flockes, or for corruption of doctrine, or for vitiousnes of life. The two last his Grace pleads not, but only for the first two, which I remitt to the judgment of the Assembly and thinkes it should be handlit with moderation to his Graces satisfaction.

Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Truelie for my selfe I have no spleen against any of these Ministers, and I believe they have none at me. I have beine more blamed this tyme bygone, for that that is called moderation, than for any great vehemencie against any persone; but for that the Commissioners Grace hes beine saying, I thinke verilie there will be many that will be willing to submitt themselves to the judgment and determination of the Assembly. But I should wishe that they would confesse some errours in their judgment before they submitt themselves. Alwayes I thinke it is but a dabling with untempered mortar. These that are not of the judgement of our Kirk, they will be pleased to professe themselves to be such, and then let them be conferred with and convinced. As for others againe whose judgment has gone after their affection and their affection after the world, these hes need of repentance; but I thinke they should first acknowledge that there is something done amisse, and that they have beine guiltie of some errours; and I thinke by your confession they doe great honour to God, and establishe a more perfect peace betwixt them and their brethren.

Lord Lowdoun said—So many of them as have not beine present where they were processed upon, and representation of their case to this Assembly by supplication, deserves to have their proces considered of here, or some appoynted by the whole Assembly to heare them.

Mr Alexʳ said—I thinke, verilie, there should be a difference put betweene those who have not followed their practise according to the tymes then, but also hes troubled others beside them, yea, and hes run into England to doe all the ill they could there, and betwixt these who in modestie and simplicitie, so to speake, hes followed their oune judgment, thinking it to be right.

The Commissioner said—I shall only differ from Mr Alexander Hendersones opinion in this—that I believe that none of the ministers that went to England, went neither out of wantonnes, nor of a purpose of oary misinformation, but meirlie out of necessitie, for not having stockes of money. I thinke were [it] not the Kings bountie they should have starved, and with what peace and securitie could they live here during the troubles of this countrie? so it was not only but fitting, but necessar that they should goe.

Mr Alexʳ Hendersone said—Divers of them went to England with full purses, and others of them stayed at home in securitie; so that it is evident neither povertie nor fear made them goe out of the Kingdome.

Earle of Rothes said—I thinke, according to the order of this Kirke, which we cannot goe by—for there are cleare Acts for it—ye must take the reportes of these that have beine on the former committies, and then it shall be fitt to cognosce of particulars according to the degries of the faults and the measure of their repentance; and I assert so much to the Commissioners Grace, that if these men be so free as his Grace declaires, I trow there hath beine so much moderation shawen in the Act of the deposition, that they were sought with all earnestnes and kindnes to acknowledge their mother Kirk; and I believe that some charitable disposition will remain still. But can it be thought enough that a man shall come in heir before this Assemblie, and declair that he assents unto the institutions of this Kirk, who is knowne not only to be in some things corrupt in his judgement, but disassenting from the orthodox doctrine of the Kirk of Scotland, and corrupted with many moe errours.

The Commissioner said—I suspect if yow looke some of your processes, you shall find litle more proven against some of them, but these thinges whereof I have spocken, except it be some pycked quarrells. But if your Lordship and this Assembly conceaves that we can doe nothing in that but by takeing in the reportes and makeing formall Acts thereupon, which is nothing but to evince what we professe to ayme at, and to fall upon those rockes which we have hitherto eschued, I doe professe that I can neither consent nor be a witnes unto it. As for the second—for being of adverse judgment, I hope yow are not so cruell as absolutelie to condemne a man for being of a contrare opinion anent Ruleing Elders or such other.

Rothes said—If any man hes made a declaration to your Grace that they have beine processed for no other crymes then that, your Grace should notifie such; and I thinke the Assemblie being now conveined, he that thinkes himselfe thus wronged—that thinges have beine layd to his charge that it cannot be cleared—it should be considered by the Assemblie. As for your Graces answer to the last parte of my speach, my meaning is—not only any opinion of unlawfulnes of Lay Elders, but a judgment different from the whole frame of the doctrine of our Church at the Reformation as it is now restoired, and likewayes comitted Arminianisme and Poppishe tenets: and here I cannot but remember that man who, in presence of your Grace, layd some imputations against some worthie Members of this Assemblie. For my parte, I presse that this proces may be ryped up againe, and I can bear witnes that that man Mr John Lindsey, sometyme Minister at Carstaires, hath beene corrupt in his judgment, hereticall in his doctrine, directlie opposite and adverse from the judgement of the Kirk of Scotland, and a maine incendiarie and enemie to the worke of reformation in this land. This shall be made good to your Grace; and if your Grace would paine yourselfe with the particular, we shall cleare it to your Graces satisfaction.

The Commissioner said—I desire to eschue nothing so much as the rypeing up of the particulars that reflex upon one of zon rockes that we have hitherto eschued; and if this Assemblie will goe on to their formalitie anent these reportes which I will not dispute much against yow, yow shall force me to a protestation which I have hitherto spaired; and, therefore, I shall desire that some such motion may be made how this rocke may be eschued.

My Lord Argyle said—Becaus it may be, the Commissioners Grace spaires to speake such free language as need were, for feare of offence, and, on the other pairt, the Moderatour doeth in free termes expresse himselfe for fear to light upon the other rocke, and so it may be, many of this Assembly knowes neither what his Grace nor the Moderatour would be at: therefore I represent to the Assembly that all may understand what we would be at, and I believe that soe much tyme and losse as the agitation of it in publict would take, will suffice to cleare the matter better in privat.

To the whilk motion the Commissioners Grace and the whole Assembly did applaud, and for that effect did nominat—[not named].—Becaus the roll of their names was inlarged and given in more perfectlie the next Session, we here omitt it.[234]

The Supplication of the Toune of Edinburgh for the transportation of Mr Robert Douglas from Kirkcaldie to Edinburgh, was againe presented to the Assemblie; and after the hearing and reading of all reasons betweene Kirkcaldie, Mr Robert Dowglas, and the Toune of Edinburgh, the rolls were called, and the said Mr Robert Douglas was chosen Minister to Edinʳ by the farr greatest parte of the voices.

To met at 4 a clock in the afternoone.

Sess. 13.—Hora quarta in the afternoone.

After prayer, the Moderatour said—According as we left before noone, we have beine taking some course how exceptions may be taken away from any that would desire to carpe either at our forme or our present proceedings. As we appoint a Committie to take in the Reportes, so have we now, to facilitat our bussines—so have we now inlarged the number, and divided them againe in four Committies, for the greater accelerating of matters: viz., ane for Edinburgh and Jedburgh—the 2ᵈ for Irwing and Kirkcudbright—the 3ᵈ for Sᵗ Androwes and Kirkcaldie—and, 4, for Aberdeine and Forrest.

For Edinʳ and Jedburgh, Mr Robert Knox, and so foorth, hic deest.

The Supplication of Leith being againe presented and red in face of the Assemblie, Mr James Scharpe, Minister at Govan, was transported to Leith, with the consent of all the Assembly, none opposeing.

A Complaint of ane Mr Robert Hatsone, Minister at Grange, upon ane George Jamesone, for stryking and abusing of the said Mr Robert to the indangering of his life, for no caus but becaus the said Mr Robert had summond him before the Presbitrie for living in fornication, referred earnestlie and humblie to the consideration of the Commissioners Grace.

A Complaint from the Toune of Peiblis against their reader, referred to the Presbitrie.

A Supplication for the transportation of Mr Frederick Carmichaell from _______________ to _______________ referred to the Presbitrie.

A Bill of Forgane in Fife, for Mr David Forrests transportation, Minister at _____________, referred to the Presbitrie.

The Bill of Invernes against their Minister, referred to the Provinceall Assemblie.

A Supplicatione for the change of the Presbitrie seat of Mearnes, referred to the Committie for the Billes.

The names of these that were to preach on the Sabbath day, &c. [not given.]

The forsaid Committie to meit with my Lord Commissioners Grace in the severall roumes of the Tolbuith, to-morrow, at 6 a clocke. The Assemblie to meit at 10.

Sessio 14.—Hora decima, Friday, [23 August.]

After prayer, the Moderatour desired the four severall Committies to give in their diligence; and, first, for the north, Mr David Lindsey, Moderatour of that Committie, gave in the summe of the proces against Mr George Gordoune, which was found to bare beine clearlie proven, and the Assemblie did approve the sentence of the Commission against him.

A Supplication from Mr James Sandilands, Canonist in the Kings Colledge of Aberdeine: That whereas the late Commission from the Generall Assemblie had abolished the said facultie whereof he was Professor, did therefore supplicat the Assemblie for annulling the said Act, in respect he was only cited before the Commission to be examined upon his personall carriage, and, therefore, neither had they warrand to doe further, nor he was bound to answer them in further, and that becaus there were not a sufficient quorum there present at that tyme.

The Assemblie, at the desire of the Commisioners Grace, delayed it till the next Session.

As there were some other Reports coming in,

Lowdoun said—The tyme for the Assemblie is now far spent, and the Parliament approaching verie neare; and, doubtles, there are many materiall things to be done before the closure of this Assemblie. It wer fitt that these matters be pretermitted. I shall represent this to your consideration to be thought upon. Since all of these deposed Ministers, who are desirous to be heard, are either such whose faults are so palpable grosse, that on the first view they may be seene to deserve their sentence, these does not deserve in so short a tyme to have re-entrie to the Ministry, and so needs not to trouble the Assembly at this tyme. Others are mainly, declyning the Generall Assembly, who otherwayes are not so vitious, and who, now professing penitence, would be receaved upon their repentance, and the more moderatelie dealt with, that the Commissioners Grace doth now solicite for them. Others also whose proces is more dark and intricat might be laid by at this tyme, that so, if our tyme cutt us schort, whichever is left, it may be of thir personall matters.

To the which motion the Assemblie, with the Commissioners Graces consent, did applaud, and, for that effect, desired the severall Committies to take up a roll of these who were onlie deposed for declyning the Assemblie, and were now supplicants, and to put a difference between these and others who were more grosse in life and erroneous in doctrine; and so, matters being made cleare before they came to the Assemblie, it would facilitat the matter greatlie.

To meit at 4 afternoone.