CONTENTS.

Page
Address to the Merchants, Manufacturers, and Traders of Great Britain[ix]
Opinions of Legal Authorities[lxxiii]
Documents illustrative of the case:—
Letter from R. R. Gibbons, Esq. to Messrs. Zulueta & Co., and Summary of Dr.Madden’s Report[1]
Copy of a Letter from Messrs. Zulueta & Co. to Lord Viscount Sandon[5]
Evidence of H. W. Macaulay, Esq. before the Select Committee on West Coast of Africa,forwarded to Messrs. Zulueta by order of the Chairman[7]
Evidence of Captain Henry Worsley Hill, R.N., ibid[80]
Additional Evidence of Captain H. W. Hill, ibid[102]
Evidence of Captain the Honourable Joseph Denman, R.N., taken before the Select Committeeon West Coast of Africa[107]
Evidence of Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., Esq., taken before the Select Committee on West Coastof Africa[167]
Report from the Select Committee on the West Coast of Africa[187]
Proceedings instituted against Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., Esq.—Arrest Aug. 23, 1843[209]
Application to take Bail (from the Anti-Slavery Reporter)[210]
Indictment for Felony[211]
Indictment for Conspiracy[214]
Proceedings in the Central Criminal Court,August 24, 1843 (from the Anti-Slavery Reporter)[219]
Affidavit of Defendant and Mr. Edward Lawford in support of Application for Writ ofCertiorari[219]
Motion to postpone the Trial of the Indictment[222]
Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., Esq.
First day, Central Criminal Court,Friday, Oct. 27, 1843[235]
Second day,Saturday, Oct. 28[316]
Third day,Monday, Oct. 30[391]

TO
THE MERCHANTS,
MANUFACTURERS,
AND
TRADERS OF GREAT BRITAIN.

The case, which will be laid before you in the following pages, must be admitted to be one of an unprecedented character.

A merchant, to all practical purposes a British merchant, the junior member of a firm of unquestioned respectability, in which his father and brother are active partners with himself, which has been established for upwards of seventy years in Spain, and of twenty in the City of London, during which period they have maintained, both as merchants and as individuals in private life, the character which will be found in the following pages to have been given them upon oath by several of the most eminent of their fellow-merchants—this individual finds himself suddenly arrested, in the manner hereafter described, within the precincts of his own private office, which is situated in the most conspicuous spot in the City of London, whilst in the pursuit of his ordinary business, upon a bench-warrant, as it is said (but which was never shown to, or has been since seen by him), a true bill having been found against him by the Grand Jury of the County of Middlesex. The charge will be found in the two indictments inserted in [pages 211] and [214], the former for felony, under the Act of 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, entitled “An Act to amend and consolidate the Laws relating to the Abolition of the Slave Trade;” the latter for conspiracy, to do that which the former indictment describes as done, viz. “manning,” &c. &c., “and shipping certain goods on board a certain vessel, called the Augusta, for the purpose of dealing in slaves;” and the penalty, amounting, in fact, to a person in the rank and station of the accused and of his family, to a forfeiture of life, and those objects which are dearer than life itself. He is carried in custody to the police-station on Garlick Hill, where shortly afterwards, a London attorney, whose name he had never before heard, appears and prefers a charge of slave dealing. The prisoner is immediately conveyed to the Central Criminal Court, then sitting at the Old Bailey; there the two indictments are read to him pro formâ, for they leave him in utter ignorance of who the prosecutor is, or upon what depositions the Grand Jury had found the bill, although his defence, to be effectual, must be directed against them: they remain to this moment an undisclosed mystery, and no one is answerable for the accuracy of those statements, whilst who the prosecutor was, was only disclosed by the counsel for the prosecution at the trial, before the examination of the witnesses began.

The prisoner’s application to the Central Criminal Court to be admitted to bail was strenuously opposed by the prosecuting attorney in person, when the Court, yielding to the representation of the probable result of the refusal upon the members of an honourable family thus violently taken by surprise and distracted, granted the application on terms indeed which the Court itself deemed excessive, but which were the only terms to which the attorney’s consent could be obtained. It was found impossible, on account of the lateness of the hour, to meet with one of the two individuals who had been approved of by the attorney; and under these circumstances the Court consented to receive one security alone for 2,000l., and the prisoner’s own recognizance for 6,000l. Thus it happened, that he who had left his home, his wife, and his children in the morning, with as assured a conscience as any of you can do, returned about ten o’clock in the evening a prisoner, with the possibility of a sentence of transportation hanging over his head, as ignorant of his accuser, or of the facts deposed to against him, as if he had fallen into the hands of the Inquisition.

The whole transaction, embracing the purchase and dispatch of the vessel Augusta, named in the indictment, had formed part of the subject of an examination, for which the house of Zulueta & Co. tendered themselves in the person of Pedro de Zulueta, before a Select Committee appointed in March, 1842, by the House of Commons, to inquire into the State of the British Possessions on the West Coast of Africa, and which was sitting in July and August, 1842, and the Report of whose proceedings had then been nearly a year before the public. Before that Committee, among several other witnesses, two officers of the navy (whose names may be seen on the back of the indictments), who had been in command of British cruizers on the African coast, and another individual, who it seems has discharged the duties of a Judge at Sierra Leone, appeared and were examined. Their examinations were published in the Report, and from thence are inserted in the following pages; but it should be observed that the last-mentioned of these three individuals did not appear in the prosecution, his evidence being inserted here only from the anxiety that a complete case should be placed before you.

As it is in the power of every reader to verify the correctness of any observations that may be made upon the merits of the evidence given by these individuals before the Committee, it cannot be improper to call attention to the temper which evidently pervades it, not for the purpose of invective, but because it is a circumstance of very great practical application to the matter in hand. It is impossible not to be struck upon its perusal with the absolute recklessness of statement, both as to fact and theory. The most formidable conclusions are built upon the most slender foundations. Facts and theories are so mixed up together, that it is only after much sifting that it turns out that what was stated as fact was no more than a theory in the speaker’s mind; and these theories, too, embracing all questions, whether of commerce, of fiscal science, policy, legislation, international law, education, morals, and religion: after which, the character of individuals, or that of a commercial house, is no doubt a matter about which much circumspection cannot be expected to be exercised. The fate of Africa, the immense interests of British commerce, of the commerce of the world; the interpretation of existing laws, under which property, life, honour, may be forfeited; their modification and adjustment; public opinion with its powerful influence, so dangerous when misled, so difficult to be set right; all these awfully important matters seem to hang upon the lips of those two officers of the navy—and they do not seem to feel any hesitation in disposing of such momentous interests. Can it be expected that they would stop and consider before they make a statement regarding private individuals, even though they may happen to be, to say the least of it, accounted by the first men of this city, and in others of the first cities of the world, honourable by birth, profession, and personal character? The crime of which they would be guilty, were mere assertion to be taken as positive proof, is according to the witnesses so heinous, that it exceeds in their estimation almost every other, not only in the law of man, but in the law of God; and yet it is to be imputed upon their construction of some rumours which they themselves, it is quite possible, indeed very probable, may quite unconsciously have helped to mould into a shape by their readiness to accumulate this miscalled evidence. Whether this representation of the general character of the evidence given before the Committee by these individuals is, or is not, correct, may be seen at once by a reference to it in the following pages.

The first information, which any of the members of the house of Zulueta & Co. had of even the existence of the Committee, was the receipt of a letter (see [p. 1]) accompanying a copy of a lengthy Report, by a Dr. Madden, on the Coast of Africa, which called forth a reply (see [p. 5]) addressed by Zulueta & Co. to the Chairman of the Committee—a reply, which, in truth, contains the whole of their case, and to which they may well look back with just pride, since the keenest appetite for the discovery of guilt has not been able to detect one single circumstance contradictory of one tittle of its contents. Neither the examination before the Committee in 1842, nor the trial in 1843, circumstances which could not be foreseen or anticipated, have elicited one single fact at variance with the statements of that letter, impossible as it was to have contemplated at the time it was written, that its accuracy would be subject to so severe a test as either the examination before the Committee, which took place two months afterwards, or the trial, which did not occur till after the lapse of more than a year.

After that letter was sent, it became known to the house of Zulueta & Co. that further statements, unfavourable to their character as merchants, had been made before the Committee; and in consequence of a verbal representation of the unfairness of such mode of accusation, copies of the examinations of two of the witnesses were sent to them. The individual who now addresses you, then offered himself, at the request of his partners, to be examined, the selection of himself being made for no other reason than that he was thought more capable of making himself understood.

It was thus therefore that I, Pedro de Zulueta the younger, appeared before the Committee, and, as will be seen by the minutes of my evidence, entered into an examination of every statement which was brought before me as having been made by the witnesses concerning my house, contradicted several of them, explained others, and volunteered a description of the nature of the dealings of my firm with the two others (whose names had been flung at us) from the time of the establishment of Zulueta & Co. in London, twenty years ago. I also underwent a cross-examination, of which one very remarkable feature was, that Captain Denman himself, one of the witnesses against me both at this examination and at the trial, was sitting close to several members of the Committee, and was seen by me to whisper repeatedly into the ear of more than one member, what, it is not unnatural to suppose, may have been directions for the more effectual discovery of the truth.

I can hardly restrain the expression of my feelings when I consider now the use which has been made of the unreserved frankness, the unguarded, because unsuspecting, candour of the statements made by me before that Committee. The thought never occurred to me, that evidence, professedly taken for the benefit of the public service, required any thing more than substantive truth, and a general bearing upon the points in question; nor could I ever have conceived that it would be scanned with critical severity, in order to take advantage to my detriment of the worst construction that might be put upon this or that verbal slip, so as to place my very existence at stake upon it. I considered myself as doing nothing more than (whilst attempting to eradicate from the minds of the Committee any unfavourable impression, which might have been made upon them by incorrect statements against the character of my house) affording information for placing the legislation on the subjects before the consideration of the Committee on a more satisfactory basis—not by indulging in assertion of crude theories, or in vague declamations, but by the simple statement of a practical case—anxious to show in the instance of my house the situation in which a firm of acknowledged honour and respectability, whose private character, and the prominent political position of one of its members in another country, renders them at least very unlikely abettors of the slave trade—may yet be placed, because, living in England, they happen to have a mercantile intercourse with persons residing in places where this trade is unhappily one of the existing evils, and in which therefore those persons may be more or less implicated, inasmuch as it is well known that no trade whatever can be carried on with a country where the slave trade exists without its being, in some measure, of more or less direct assistance to this illicit traffic. And as the assertion which had been made against some of our correspondents tended, if true, to place this position of merchants in England in a very striking light, I did think that whilst the statements made might be true (and to disprove them could not be in my power nor in the power of any man in my situation) the proper and fair course was not to controvert the matter at all; but, taking the statements for granted, practically to direct the attention of the Committee to the position in which British merchants are left upon the very case itself, which was made out by the bitterest impugners of the character of British commerce.

I appeal to every man who reads my evidence before the Committee—without a previous determination to find out some one upon whom an experiment of the power of the Act of 5 Geo. IV may be tried, and a corroboration of the theory respecting the alleged existence of British slave trading—whether upon any other hypothesis, but that of conscious innocence or of consummate effrontery, my answers to the questions put by the Committee can be possibly reconciled with common sense or common prudence, much less be consistent with that deep skilfulness and far-seeing intelligence, which have been so lavishly attributed to me and to my partners for the purposes of my destruction.

Not for an instant, even when those outraged feelings, which have not been spared, possessed greatest sway over my mind, has the thought occurred to me, that at the time of my examination the object of any one member of the Committee, or even of Captain Denman himself (for I have alluded to the fact of his being present), could be the collecting materials for a secret accusation before a Grand Jury; and I wish very distinctly to protest against any such inference being drawn from my remarks, not for the sake of the members of the Committee, who are above being injured by insinuations, but for my own sake, who alone could be injured by the supposition. I am conscious of having appeared before several men whose names are, and have been ever since I can recollect having heard them, associated in my mind with nothing but what is honourable and high principled: I received from some of them complimentary expressions upon the apparent candour and openness, the straightforward character of the evidence given; and I cannot help believing that my statements were considered moreover valuable, as tending to show the inexpediency, the gross injustice, of encouraging on the one hand trade with countries in which slave trade prevails, and yet, on the other hand, attempting to make the natural and well-known tendency of all trade to mix itself with the general state of society of the country into which it is carried, the evidence of some peculiar criminal knowledge in the parties necessarily nearest in contact with those countries, and visiting that knowledge upon them, after the community have derived profit and advantage from the transaction, although it is well known that the parties so to be sacrificed have it not in their power to guard any but themselves from being directly instrumental to the deviation of the trade into channels rendered illegal by Act of Parliament. I venture to assert, that the prominent feature of my evidence was felt by the Committee to be its unconnectedness with any party or theory; and this feature stamped it with the character of truth which, if fairly and honestly stated, must at times militate against one theory or another.

This is an offence to all who thrive upon theories, and in exactly the proportion of their affected or unreasonable belief of them. An instinctive alarm takes possession of such minds, and as they themselves cannot conceive that other people may have no theory of their own to serve upon that particular subject, which to them, and therefore in their opinion to all, must be paramount, they are disposed to imagine one theory of their own, which they at once fix upon the party thus offending against the assumed mental necessity of universal theorism. If the writer is not much mistaken, the irritation which is produced by this process of the mind, still more if self-interest is at the bottom, will materially help to reveal the moving-spring of the proceedings which are recorded in the following pages.

Be this as it may, one thing is altogether unquestionable (and indeed there has been no attempt to disguise the fact, and to it I beg to call the attention of every man in Great Britain)—it is this: Pedro de Zulueta could never have been placed in the position in which he was (charged with felony under the finding of the Grand Jury), with the remotest chance of a conviction, if he had not voluntarily offered himself for examination before a Committee of the British House of Commons—the way being this—a London attorney lays hold of the printed Report of the proceedings; every part of the evidence given by Pedro de Zulueta, that was destructive of the hypothesis of his being a well-knowing and wilful abettor of an alleged slave trading speculation in 1840, is disconnected from those passages in which he had stated that, in 1842, when he was speaking (after hearing and reading a mass of evidence given for the first time before that Committee), he had heard statements about his correspondents being participators in the slave trade which might be true, which were not, he felt, material to himself, and which, as he had not the means of disproving, he then stated that he must then believe; and then using this intelligible admission, made in 1842, the only one that could be found at all available, as the only presumptive proof of guilty knowledge in 1840. Nothing could be done or attempted against the house of Zulueta & Co., much less against the individual who was attacked, without this management, this distortion of the evidence—for some knowledge of some kind must be made out in 1840, and although the fallacy was transparent, it might and unfortunately did serve for the purpose of the attack at the heart, and might still serve for the next, but not the sole object, of the prosecution. It is true, that the whole of the evidence given by me was read at the trial, for so the law requires it; but that same law, as was observed, also permits that those parts of a man’s statements which make in his favour should not be believed or taken for any thing, whilst such admissions as might be made to appear criminatory of himself are received as evidence against him. By such a process of distortion alone could a case be made out against my house, or fixed upon myself, who was totally unknown to the so-called witnesses as they themselves admitted, and who did not personally appear in any part of the transactions excepting at my own examination before the Committee. If the facts are not so, let it be at once explained what other circumstance marked me out for prosecution. Let the reader of the following pages, after perusing the trial carefully, attempt to solve the problem for himself of how (apart from the fact of my appearing, and of the application which is made of my statements before the Committee of the House of Commons) the firm of Zulueta & Co. came to be prosecuted in my person to the exclusion of others. Let every other part of the evidence given before and at the trial, of matter of fact, by the witnesses on the transaction of the Augusta be considered, and where is one single fact that can connect Zulueta & Co. with the alleged, and only alleged, designs of the parties by whose orders they had acted in that transaction—an acting in itself admitted to be innocent? And if the reader does not find any other solution of the difficulty, it is clearly demonstrated that Pedro de Zulueta has been prosecuted upon partial statements from his own evidence, given before a Committee of the House of Commons, where he appeared voluntarily, where he was encouraged to explain transactions of business, and neither refused nor even hesitated to answer one single question that was put to him, as conducive to a great public object; but without the slightest intimation of the ulterior object to which it has been perverted.

For the purpose not certainly of clearing up the question, but of sophisticating a very plain case, it will perhaps be asked, whether, if a man should avow himself before a Committee of the House of Commons to have been guilty of a crime, or to have partaken in it, is it meant to be contended that his candour is to be the safeguard of his guilt? One short answer is, that the remark is inapplicable to the case; for no such avowal has been even contended to have been made, but on the contrary a distinct and repeated general and circumstantial disavowal was made. Whether my declarations did or did not amount to such degree of information in my mind, at the time of giving my evidence, as presumed a knowledge two years before, that would be brought under the description of the guilty knowledge described in legal phraseology, in an Act of Parliament, very obscure as is generally admitted, and never before put in practice, this was the utmost that the ingenuity of the prosecution could make out of my evidence—and this cannot be called an avowal of crime. The question is not, whether a crime avowed before a Committee of the House of Commons should or should not be prosecuted, using the avowal as one of the means of conviction—a question, which even so put is argued, I believe, on both sides by eminent lawyers—but whether in my case, such as it is, I have not a right to complain of the grossest and most unparalleled breach of good faith—whether the use made of my evidence is not one against which the conscience of every man revolts—whether it is likely to facilitate the public service, or to increase the respect due to the British Legislature at home and abroad, or to their proceedings—even if in other respects the course adopted is free from legal objections, which I believe is at least doubtful.

The fact itself is unquestionable, and I must repeatedly assert it—that the materials for my prosecution were collected from my own evidence as laid before the public, in the printed Report of the Committee, for whose information it was given—that in collecting these materials the statements, although formally read as they were made, were virtually vitiated—that, although the whole was read, only that part which was thought susceptible of some adverse construction was avowed to be of any necessary weight; and statements, such as they were, which had been made in 1842, after information that was at any rate only furnished in that year, were applied for the purpose of raising a presumption of guilty knowledge in 1840.

I have insisted so much upon this point, because it is very material that it should be borne in mind throughout the perusal of the following pages. I do not hesitate to believe that the unsophisticated sense of the people of this country will revolt at the fact of a Committee of the House of Commons having been turned into a trap wherein to take a man—a snare to his good faith—the more effectual, because the members who happen to compose the Committee stand high for honour and integrity in the land, and therefore their very names seemed to afford a guarantee that the fairest construction would be put upon the words of a respectable individual, who appeared voluntarily before them, without assuming from the outset that he is a self-convicted felon, who comes before them for no other purpose than to deceive, and who must be listened to only in order to see if he does not betray himself into some acknowledgment of his crimes, of which advantage is to be taken to secure the ends of justice, which he craftily endeavours to defeat. It may suit those who want such a monster of craft and subtlety in order to justify the monstrous proceedings, which have been deemed necessary to support a mischievous and unfounded theory that British capital is employed in the slave trade—it may suit them, to make me out to be this desideratum in their system; but, without laying claim to any more extended or more favourable notoriety than that which is on record, I venture to say that the attempt must fall to the ground, by the weight of its intrinsic absurdity, before the common sense of the people of this country.

But what the Committee thought of the evidence, after hearing at length the very individuals who appeared against me at the Old Bailey, and after hearing my own evidence, which formed the chief weapon against me in that Court, will be found in their own Report, printed in the following pages. Every reader may judge for himself, whether, in point of fact, it is not an anticipated condemnation of such proceedings as have been inflicted upon me—a verdict of not guilty, not only upon the transactions of the Augusta, but upon the whole of Zulueta & Co.’s agency for the houses mentioned, in my evidence, if the representation given by me of the transaction be substantially correct. In [page 203] the following words will be found:—“In the first place, it is fair to state that we have no evidence, or reason to believe, that any British merchant, concerned in the trade with the West Coast of Africa, either owns or equips any vessel engaged in the slave trade, or has any share in the risk or profits of any slave trade venture”—a declaration this, the correctness of which every one conversant with the characteristic features of British commerce must acknowledge. Have any facts been elicited subsequent to this Report, and previously to the prosecution being instituted—any new evidence, which was not before the Committee of the House of Commons? This is a question which happily every reader of the following pages may settle for himself. Let him, as he peruses the evidence, at each stage of it ask himself the question—Was this before the Committee of the House of Commons? That it was, must be the answer upon every point. Not one statement was elicited from a single witness which had not been before the Committee. There was indeed an unworthy attempt to create a false impression about some casks and shackles having been left on board, even after the most unsparing of the witnesses for the prosecution had acquitted the vessel of even the shadow of a suspicion of containing the least implement available for a slaving equipment. How the attempt was foiled by their own witness afterwards will be seen; and I will not say a word more about an attempt upon which the very existence of a fellow-creature perhaps might hang, leaving it to be visited with the feeling of abhorrence which it must excite in every reader. Apart from this, there was before the Committee much more against me than there was before the Court, as may be seen by a comparison of the evidence as given before the one with that given before the other; because the nature of legal proceedings keeps the witness, even if otherwise disposed, within the limits of matter of fact—limits, which before the Court they did attempt to transgress, as may be seen very prominently in the case of the chief of them, but from which before the Committee it was in their power to wander, and they did accordingly so wander at every moment. Is it not fair to infer, that it was not to serve the purposes of justice, but at the very best that of some fancied expediency, that this prosecution was undertaken—a prosecution demonstrated to have been undertaken against the recorded sense and opinion of the Select Committee of the House of Commons? Suppose, for a moment, that by some quibble of law, by the forced interpretation of an Act of Parliament, admitted to be sufficiently obscure—not to speak of attempts to pervert evidence, or of the effort to carry off the victory, which constitutes the very essence of all legal conflict between individuals, and which of itself renders the right of private prosecution of public wrongs the destruction of civil liberty and of individual security—suppose, that by such means, what to the deliberate judgment of the Committee of the House of Commons did not appear to deserve even animadversion, might have been made out before an Old Bailey Jury to be such evidence of guilt, as to have procured an adverse verdict—is this the kind of justice which the people of this country would have approved? Impossible! I cannot believe it: the idea cannot be for a moment entertained.

But this is not all. We have seen what the Committee of the House of Commons decided. The Government—the proper, and the only proper agents, in a prosecution of this kind, upon whom, if sufficient ground existed, it was a bounden duty to have taken it in hand—seem to have treated the matter in the same manner as the Committee. All the documents which have been received in evidence, and some which were offered and were not received by the Court—that, in short, which forms all the evidence against the accused at the trial, and more, were in possession of Government before the last Administration went out (the proceedings before the Committee alone excepted)—that Administration did not take up the prosecution. The law-officers of the present Administration have had them also, and moreover the proceedings before the Committee, one of the members of which was a leading member of the preceding Government—they have not taken up the prosecution. A print in the favour and confidence, as it seems, of the parties to the late proceedings, has stated, that the actual law-officers of the Government were consulted and decided against their being undertaken; that again, when the bill was found by the Grand Jury, the prosecution was offered to them, but that they declined to be parties to it. These statements are followed up by remarks upon the apathy and indifference of the Government, which can only serve to render the testimony borne to the fact the more unexceptionable, because unwilling; for, otherwise, they afford only a lamentable specimen of how much mischief is done to a cause, the sole merit of which must consist in its being one purely of humanity, by its being used for the purposes of political warfare. This indeed is to trade with the cause of the slave.

The fact remains unshaken, that neither the Attorney-General of the present nor of the late Administration has prosecuted by himself or by others, and therefore the Queen’s name was as much usurped under the cover of the forms of the Court, as that of the public, whose name is invoked in support of these proceedings. I will venture to say, that no one who has really looked into them for himself, and is possessed of all the facts from the examination before the Committee of the House of Commons, can think with other feelings than those of shame and indignation, that they can take place in England—feelings, the more strong, because such proceedings are pretended to be undertaken in order to serve a cause with which, if they are identified, they will only serve to disgrace it. I cannot but believe that all this is felt by the majority (I know it is felt by very many) of the members of a society, whose zeal may be imposed upon at times, but the majority of whom must have that real benevolence of heart and soundness of judgment, which will make them wish for no other principle of action than that contained in the well-expressed sentiments of a noble lord—“That a good, however eminent, should not be attained otherwise than by lawful means[1]:” it may be added, that by no other can it be permanently attained.

[1] Lord Aberdeen’s Letter to the Lords of the Admiralty, 20th May, 1842.

The Society, to which I am alluding, was not more eager to start or to adopt the prosecution than the Committee of the House of Commons disposed to find a ground for its being undertaken, or than the last and the present Administration; indeed, the Society volunteered a disavowal of any connexion with the proceedings at their commencement, and did not express even an approval of them. In this, their organ only represented faintly the sentiments more strongly and decidedly repeated to myself by many members of that Society in a tone of unequivocal reprobation, and viewing the proceedings as calculated only to injure the cause which they had at heart. That such has been a very generally prevailing impression is fully attested by the plaintive remarks of the organs of the prosecution, and the libellous stimulants which, whilst the proceedings for the trial were in progress, they thought it necessary to apply. It is, indeed, but too true that a society, proposing to itself the accomplishment of some great moral and benevolent object, is most specially bound to confine itself to the use of such means only as are of as unexceptionable and even as benevolent a character as the end. Crime is, indeed, a just object of abhorrence; but a society, like the Anti-Slavery Society, is specially bound to guard themselves against the danger of encouraging one species of crime in their attempt to put down another; every one of the means they employ or sanction must be of as unquestionable purity as the end they profess to aim at: expediency, as distinct from justice, must be jealously guarded against, apt as it is to insinuate itself into all human proceedings, and never more subtilely than under the cloak of zeal in a good, cause: the smallest degree of evil to be done must stand as an insurmountable barrier to the accomplishment of the most undoubted good. It is in the power of man to destroy the very end in view, whilst he thinks he is advancing it; but he cannot alter the law of Providence, which dooms to certain defeat, even amidst the tokens of apparent triumph, whomsoever dares to modify for himself the moral code of the universe: the moment that violent hands are laid upon it, in order to smooth down a difficulty in the way of action, the very end itself becomes contaminated. All this is evident enough, and approves itself to the enlightened conscience. A society, as a body, taken in the abstract, may be supposed less likely to be led away by such apparently short cuts when presenting themselves in their path; but these societies are, in practice, managed by individuals of whom the least scrupulous are sure to appear as the most zealous and most efficient—they are the most busy and the most forward—and, hence, the additional necessity for caution on the part of the more conscientious, inasmuch as the names of the good are too often the cover of the deeds of the bad, whose power consists exclusively in the moral weight attached to the acts which the good are made to appear as having sanctioned.

It would have been well for the credit of the Anti-Slavery Society, therefore, if the London Committee had retained the position in which they placed themselves by their own act of disavowal; instead of which, after being taunted by one or two prints, which have, pending the proceedings, used every exertion in their limited power to stimulate the passions of those whose good sense it was necessary to mislead, the London Committee have passed and published the following resolution:—

“At a meeting of the Committee of the British and Foreign Anti-Slavery Society, held at No. 27, New Broad Street, London, on Friday, December 8, 1843, Josiah Forster in the Chair,—The conduct of Sir George Stephen, in the prosecution of Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., in October last, being taken into consideration, the following resolution was unanimously adopted—

“That this Committee feel it to be due alike to Sir George Stephen himself, and the public interests of justice and humanity, to express their high sense of his philanthropic and public spirited conduct, in carrying on, upon his own responsibility, the prosecution of Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., and another, for slave trading; a course in which the decision of the Grand Jury, and the declared opinion of the Judge, have fully sustained him, and by which it may be hoped a salutary check will be given to the notorious implication of British capital and commerce in that nefarious traffic. Josiah Forster, Chairman.”

Here, after using that description of the charge, which is calculated to convey a false notion of what was, and could alone, even by the worst construction and perversion, be imputed, as if the charge had been dealing in slaves, they express a high sense of the philanthropic and public spirited conduct of the prosecutor—necessarily including the inquisitorial proceeding before the Grand Jury—the mode of apprehension of the accused—the resistance to his being released on even large bail, and to his having time given him to prepare his defence—the shrinking from appearing as a witness in public, and stating there what he, the prosecutor, had been ready to swear before the Grand Jury—the bringing up of a witness to raise an appearance of the existence of facts, the very contrary of which had been deposed to before the Committee of the House of Commons by the leading witness for the prosecution in Court—all this forms that conduct, which must have been taken into the consideration of a committee of a benevolent society, and which in discharge of a duty of both justice and humanity that committee have pronounced as both philanthropic and public spirited.

The resolution proceeds to state, that in the course adopted by the prosecutor he has been fully supported by the decision of the Grand Jury and the declared opinion of the Judge. It is impossible to estimate what value to attach to the finding of a Grand Jury without knowing upon what evidence their finding was based. In the present case, one fact is beyond all dispute, viz. that Sir George Stephen appeared before the Grand Jury as the first witness, his name standing as such on the back of the indictment, and that he did not present himself in the witness-box at the public trial, although in Court from the beginning to the close of it—from which it results, that the Grand Jury had before them a witness, giving to them in private, evidence which he did not think proper to give in public. Must not the inference be permitted, that the Grand Jury would have thrown out the bill, as the Petty Jury threw out the indictment, unless some evidence, which was not offered to the latter, had been given to the former by a witness, and that too, unfortunately, by a witness who seems to have preferred the secret inquisitorial form, which still remains in British law, to the open and public path which was before him, and which is the proper boast of British justice?

Regarding the support derived from the expressions of Judge Maule, when applied to by Serjeant Bompas for an order for the payment of the expenses of the prosecution, it is not for me to speak; but that it does not extend to a sanction, in point of propriety, to the part taken by the prosecutor, nor to the manner in which he has discharged it, is very obvious.

This, however, is not the point to which I wish now to refer. The object of this publication, and of the preceding and following remarks, is not any vindication of myself, nor a crimination of the motives of any one beyond what the statement of facts may carry in itself; my vindication I consider ample in the exhibition of the facts themselves—in the verdict of the Jurors, after hearing a trial of two days duration, after a long and elaborate charge delivered when a clear day had elapsed subsequent to the defence—a verdict, which was not agreed to without consideration, which was pronounced by the foreman in the emphatic manner which the crowded Court witnessed, which was received by the spectators, consisting of some of the most respectable merchants, bankers, and professional men of the City of London, who had sat daily and patient witnesses of the proceedings, in a manner which has been noticed by the public press, and echoed by the leading journals of London, of Liverpool, and of other important mercantile cities of Europe.

The chief object proposed in this publication, and in these observations, is to place before my brother-merchants, in a connected form, the whole of the facts, which form my case, or rather the case of the firm of Zulueta & Co., from the first communication which preceded my examination before the Committee of the House of Commons, to the close of the proceedings at the Old Bailey, in order that the merchants of England may judge for themselves, and reflect upon the position in which they are placed, as resulting from the principle and doctrines which the proceedings contained in the following pages have disclosed to emanate from an Act of Parliament which has been passed these twenty years, but which has been for the first time tried upon my case. It may be said, that by merchants in general it is hardly known: we all know that dealing in slaves is prohibited, under severe penalties, by the law of England—we know that it is repugnant to the prevailing tone of education, to the opinions and feelings of our people—we know that, at all events, as it is carried on and can only be carried on, it is at variance with the spirit of Christianity, and therefore no man need read an Act of Parliament to abstain from having any, the slightest, concern in or with such a traffic; but even if these considerations were not enough—which England surely will not suffer to be supposed of her own merchants—even if these considerations did not go to the extent of precluding British merchants from laying out their capital on slave adventures, whether for themselves or others’ account, common prudence, in which respectable merchants in this country cannot be said to be deficient, does at once warn a man not to trust his funds to the issue of speculations which afford no security, over which he can exercise no control—so much so, that it is hardly possible to conceive in what shape, looking at all like business, British capital could be lent for the purpose or on the security of a slave trade adventure. All this has contributed to maintain merchants in utter ignorance of the provisions of this Act of Parliament, or of the use which might be made of its legal phraseology: but now, when a merchant, not at all suspected by his fellows—for that is on record—has been, to the astonishment of every one, dragged from his office to the police-station, and to the Old Bailey dock (more especially when this is done in spite of the resolution of the House of Commons’ Committee, in spite of the opinion of the law officers of the Crown) by a London attorney, it is time to look at the exposition of the law and the practical application of its provisions, which so extraordinary a proceeding has elicited; the more so, as it has been stated that “higher game is in view,” and that the prosecutor is still occupied in analysing the evidence given before the Committee; and when the Anti-Slavery Committee adopt and publish a resolution, in which it is stated, in reference to the late prosecution, that by it “it may be hoped a salutary check will be given to the notorious implication of British capital and commerce in that nefarious traffic, the slave trade.” At any other time the absolute folly of the assertion would have suffered it to remain unnoticed; experience has shown, however, that there is somewhere the means, and that the will does exist, of doing mischief to an appalling degree.

As explaining the practical operation of the law, then, I shall look upon the summing up of the learned Judge, not with a critical eye, in order to decide whether the law has been well or ill administered—this is the province of a professional man, into which it would be preposterous for me to enter. Upon the propriety or impropriety of the Judge’s acts and opinions, or even of his exposition of the law and its requirements, I must be understood as maintaining a complete reserve. For the present purpose, and for every practical purpose that can affect others, the law must be taken as laid down by his Lordship. As to its meaning, the evidence which is required under the Act to bring an individual to trial, the degree of evidence which will send a case to the Jury, that upon which a case in answer shall be demanded of the accused—until it is otherwise declared by competent authority—until then, those who really wish to obey the law must look upon the late administration of it as that which is to be expected, and the extent and applicability of the Act of Parliament to be that which is exhibited in the late proceedings.

The first consideration which presents itself is the nature and definition of the offence. In the outset of his summing up, the learned Judge stating the nature of the charge, alluding to the vessel which the prisoner is alleged to have employed, lays down, “that it was not necessary to be proved that the ship in question (the Augusta) was intended to be used for the conveyance of slaves from the coast of Africa. If there was a slave adventure—if there was an adventure, of which the object was that slaves should be brought from the coast of Africa, that there should be slave trading there—and if this vessel was dispatched and employed for the purpose of accomplishing that object, although it was intended to accomplish that object otherwise than by bringing home the slaves in that vessel—that is within the Act of Parliament. So, if the goods were loaded for the purpose of accomplishing the slave trade ... the crime charged in this indictment would be committed, the allegations in the indictment would be supported, and the prohibition of the Act of Parliament would be violated.”

Such is the nature of the offence. If there is a slave adventure in the port of destination of the vessel and goods which you dispatch, for the purpose of accomplishing which they may be said to have been intended, the prohibition is violated; but as, in the case of the vessel and the goods in question, no attempt was even made to prove the existence of any such adventure, but only a general slaving character of the port of destination, it follows that not even the existence of such particular slave adventure is necessary to be proved in order to support an indictment under the Act, but it is enough if a general slaving character of the trade at the port of destination is proved, in order to lay the ground of an indictment. Let this general slave trading character be discovered by any one of a port in Africa, to which you may have sent goods—and of course, if a port not in Africa is (as may very well be) largely concerned in the trade, the case is not very much altered—and you stand open to a charge under the Act, for the crime has been committed. It is as when a man is found murdered in the street—the crime has been committed—the only thing is to find out the criminal. How this is done under the Act of Parliament on the slave trade is the next thing to be seen.

“The employment, the dispatch of the vessel,” says the learned Judge, “is no conclusive proof of the guilt, till going further, and showing that the party doing so did it for the illegal purpose charged.” But then, for the purpose of beginning the inquiry, without which there would have been no beginning of it, the foundation must be laid in the employment of the vessel by the person accused. If slave trading is intended, and the vessel be sent for the purpose, the important consideration then is, whether the person employing the vessel is cognizant of the intention. We have seen the large meaning of the terms slave trading. It is not like wine trade—dealing in wine: it is not dealing in slaves, but dealing in Manchester and Birmingham goods, adapted and purposely manufactured for the African markets, so long as it is found that slave traders, that is, as heretofore the term has been understood, dealers in slaves—resort to the port for which they are shipped. Of course the crime having been committed by some one, that is, by the person who intended that slave traders should use them for slave purposes—and no other will be supposed as possible—the existence of the law punishing such an intention demands that an inquiry should be made. For this purpose the commission-agent in England, who employed the vessel, must be laid hold of—not that in that one act there is a conclusive proof of guilt, until it be further shown that he was cognizant of and intended the illegal object, but because an inquiry is imperative under the Act. With whom the right and duty of making it rests it matters not—any one that may be so disposed from a philanthropic and public-spirited motive. It is not enough that a Parliamentary inquiry has been made already—it is not enough that the law-officers of the Crown see no reason to institute a further inquiry—it matters not, if the case has been lying in all its details before the public, the ends of public justice are never satisfied until the so-called inquiry takes the shape of a bill before the Grand Jury—the inquisition of the country. There certain depositions are secretly made upon oath, which you shall never see; and upon this mild and fair procedure you will have your very life, and the life of every one dear to you placed in jeopardy, for I believe that there is nothing in the mercantile profession which is likely to prepare a man, and a man’s family, for his being treated as a felon. It is indeed true, that in the evidence before the Committee of the House of Commons merchants are treated by some of the witnesses in a tone and manner becoming only those times in which merchants were tolerated for the sake of the money that might be extorted from them, but otherwise were considered as a caste whose instinct was money-making by all means, right or wrong, and against whom every crime might be presumed; but, whatever may be in the heart of some, and whatever may rise to their lips, against a profession which England honours and distinguishes, a distinct avowal dare not be made such as will justify the insinuation that there is absolutely nothing in carrying a merchant, considered respectable, from his private office to a felon’s den, without his knowing his accuser, or upon what he is charged, which ought to shake his mind or that of his family.

But, then, unless you are proved to have been cognizant of the intended purpose, you will be acquitted. The nature of the offence has been explained and laid down to embrace a very wide compass. If there existed a slave adventure at the port of destination of a vessel, to accomplish which that vessel carried goods, the offence has been committed. The penalty, to whomsoever committed it, is by the Act only short of the greatest imposed by the law. You employed the vessel—this is not conclusive of guilt, until it is shown further that there was slave trading intended, and that you were cognizant of the intention. Let us see how both things are to be proved and brought home to you. Heretofore the way between your office and the Old Bailey is one which there is no merchant, trading with countries wherein the slave trade is allowed to exist, may not be dragged through without risk or responsibility by any ruffian in London. Now, perhaps, though not exactly at the earliest stage that may be desirable for the safety of the innocent and the repose of honourable families—still now, perhaps, the requirements of the law in regard to proof are commensurate with the facility afforded on the outset, and with the terrible penalty which follows a conviction.

The Judge proceeds upon this part of the evidence as follows: “It appears from the evidence, that the Gallinas is a place described by some witnesses of great experience—two captains in the navy, and Colonel Nichol, who was the governor of a district in the neighbourhood” (about 1,500 miles from it, see [his evidence]), “whose employment was mainly to watch the slave coast, of which the Gallinas forms a part, and to contribute to the putting down the slave trade—that the Gallinas is a place of slave trading, and of no other trade at all.” His Lordship continues as follows: “It is said, and I think with great probability, that the Gallinas is not generally known as a slave trading place, in fact, it seems very little known at all; it seems to be a place where any other description of felons may resort to concert their schemes and hide their stolen goods, and which, of course, they do not make public, and which is not likely to be known by honest and true people. Except those employed as police or otherwise in aid of justice, as these captains were, of course it would not be spoken of at all. There might be slave traders in London knowing it very well, but they would be perfectly silent probably, and hardly mention it by name even in speaking one to another. It is very probable, therefore, that the place was not very well known; that when these persons spoke of the Gallinas, they might say the Gallinas on the coast of Africa; and a person might be very conversant with the geography of Africa in an honest way, who had not been active in putting down the slave trade, and yet might not know where it was, except that it was on the coast of Africa.”

It is impossible more correctly to state, in stronger language, or more clearly, the possibility of the place of destination of a vessel being a slave trading place, and that exclusively, without in the least diminishing the great probability of its being unknown to the party in England who ships goods for that place as a commission-agent, by order and for account of somebody else abroad. Thus, the great probability of my statement before the Committee of the House of Commons of the ignorance of the character of the trade carried on at Gallinas was completely vouched for, and the observation, that those who knew were not likely to tell, and not likely to as much as name the place, was forcible in my favour, since the house had entered and cleared the Augusta for Gallinas, and not for Africa, as ships with destinations for the West Coast are generally dispatched, and as the Augusta might most certainly have been, had the house even suspected an improper object which required concealment. It is singular that, in the explanations prepared for instructing counsel, the case is stated in nearly the same terms as to the ignorance of the character of the place, as those used by Judge Maule. Merchants easily understand this, because it is the case more or less with every one. In shipping goods by foreign order and for foreign account to distant ports in all parts of the world, with which there is hardly any communication, and with which the shipper himself has none, and need not have any for the purpose of such a transaction, it most frequently happens, that the nature of the trade carried on at that particular port is very imperfectly or rather not at all known. In the multitude and the rapidity of operations which must be disposed of almost without thinking, the inquiry (not being either interesting or profitable, and of course quite unnecessary) is not made, or indeed as much as thought of, especially when heretofore, I believe, it will be acknowledged that it has not been considered that the nature of the trade carried on at any place could involve the mere shipper, without a connexion or any interest in that place, in the slightest responsibility.

But what follows? The character of the place is thus settled: “That it is itself a slave trading place appears to be very evident from the case on the part of the prosecution. Probably those honest persons, those honestly dealing persons, who know best about it, are those who have been called upon by their public duty to ascertain it. Such persons have been called, and they give it this character and description, and they state that it is distinguished from other parts of the coast of Africa; for on other parts of that coast, it is said, slaves are sold as one article of export, but that other things, such as palm-oil—I believe that is the principal thing—and ivory, and wood, and other things, are sold in immense quantities on the coast of Africa; but that that is not the case at the Gallinas. They might be carrying out goods to other parts of Africa, intending to bring home palm-oil, or slaves, as might be most profitable; they might intend to bring home an honest commodity, and not have to do with this dishonest and perilous commodity; but it appears difficult to conceive what a person, carrying a cargo of goods to the Gallinas, could intend to do with it, unless he intended to have those goods employed in the slave trade. The prisoner might say they were to be employed by others in the slave trade; that would be plain and simple: it is wrong, but it is a plain and simple account of that which was intended to be done. It is a place, as it appears, without any trade; and if there be an obvious plain interest in a person carrying goods to that place, it appears to me that it may be taken that they were for the purpose of the slave trade. If that be the plain and obvious inference, it appears to me that might be the inference very properly drawn by Colonel Nichol, that this was a slave adventure, unless the contrary were proved.” Here the character of the place seems the only point upon which the observations of the learned Judge bear; and that character having been laid down as very probably indeed unknown to any one but the dealer in slaves, and the police employed against them, they do not seem to touch the prisoner. But at the same time an answer is suggested which the prisoner might give about what was intended, thus seeming to imply, that he ought to be furnished with evidence in answer, capable of accounting for what was intended, without which the full weight of an inference by one of the witnesses must remain, so far attaching to him the knowledge that he must necessarily be supposed to entertain of what was intended by others. I had said before the Committee, in the evidence read in Court, that the house knew nothing of what was to be done with the goods. Therefore, this not being admitted, it seems to follow that the law, as laid down by Judge Maule, requires some plain and simple account of what was intended to be done with the goods from the commission-agent in England who ships them by order and for account of a merchant residing abroad. It had before been laid down, that to ship the goods for slave trade purposes is an offence under the Act, if the shipper was cognizant of the intent: it is now said, that the port is an exclusively slave trading port, and it is not suggested that this was probably unknown, as it had before been said, to any but the dealer in slaves and the police employed against them, nor any account taken of the statement of the accused before the House of Commons, which had been read in Court, disclaiming the very possibility, as a mere shipping-agent, of any knowledge of what was to be done with the goods: the only answer suggested is one which may give a plain and simple account of what the merchant abroad intended to do with the goods at such a port. It seems to follow, therefore, that the mere shipping-agent in England is bound by the Act to be provided with such an account; and if he does not give it, the inference, to be drawn as to the object of the shipment from the character of the port, will not only attach to the adventure, but will cut deeper, since if you are bound to have and to produce a knowledge, and you do not produce it, it seems that the account is to be held not to be producible.

The notion that the Act of Parliament must be understood, not only as punishing a proved guilty knowledge, but as demanding from the accused party proof of an innocent knowledge of the plans and objects of a foreign merchant residing abroad, in respect of a transaction, in which the former has had no other share than that of a simple shipping agency in England, by order and for account of the latter, pervades the whole of the proceedings, and shows itself more clearly in the remarks that follow. “It is possible,” continues the Judge, “that this might be an adventure, not slave trading; if so, nothing can be more simple than to prove it: Martinez & Co. might prove that it is an honest adventure. If it was a dishonest adventure, it could not be expected that Martinez & Co. should be called to give evidence at all; but if it were an innocent adventure, it would be very easy for them to be called. It is true that persons are to be convicted, not by evidence they did not produce, but by evidence produced against them—not on suspicion, but on conviction; but where such evidence is offered of the trade being slave trading, as is offered here, namely, that the vessel was loaded with goods” (in itself, as the learned Judge had formerly stated, not conclusive of guilt)—“that a cargo of goods was dispatched” (to which the same former observation applies) “to a place, where slave trading is the only known object for which vessels ever go” (known to slave traders and the police employed against them, as was also aptly remarked by his Lordship; although one of these, Captain Denman, seems to have known of 800 tons, according to his evidence (see [p. 329]); and upwards of 1,000 tons, according to his official dispatch to the Governor of Sierra Leone, dated 12th December, 1840[2], as having been landed at Gallinas, without being able to say that the object was slave trading)—“a slave-mart and nothing but a slave-mart—you have a case, though it is an answerable case; but if the answer, which if it exist could be easily given, is not given, it may very fairly be inferred that the vessel was proceeding on a slaving voyage, a voyage either for the purpose of bringing home slaves, or of landing those goods for the purchase of slaves.”

[2] Vide “Report. West Coast of Africa. Part II, Appendix,” &c. p. 460.

The learned Judge is still upon the point of the nature of the adventure, as indicated by the nature of the trade said to prevail at Gallinas; and as in the former observations, since the name of Gallinas has been laid down as probably conveying no information to any but slave dealers and the slave police, the prisoner seems to remain untouched. But then it is laid down that an answer, which of course somewhere must exist, could be easily given by the accused. How so? but that the law, this special Act of Parliament, must be so understood as to require the simple shipping-agent in England to prepare himself with a full knowledge of the plans and the objects of the foreign merchant abroad, who orders certain goods to be purchased and shipped for his account. The learned Judge has not lost sight that in the universal practice of law, a conviction is only justifiable by evidence produced—that is, produced against, not by that which the accused party does not produce: but he feels it his duty, under the Act of Parliament he was expounding, to warn the Jury that the case is not so to be treated; for the operation of that Act, when to be applied to a commission-agent in this country, shipping goods to a place about which such evidence is offered as that it is a slave-mart, and a slave-mart only, even although the knowledge of that fact has been previously stated to be most probably confined to dealers in slaves, and the police employed against them, upon whose testimony alone it stood before the Court—in such a case, when dealing with the 5th Geo. IV, the onus probandi lies with the accused. In the course of mercantile transactions, the commission-agent, who buys and ships goods by order and for account of a foreign merchant residing abroad, and to a port with which the former has no intercourse of trade whatever, would not be supposed nor could be expected to possess any further knowledge than that necessary to complete, in England, his own part of the transaction; but not so for the purposes of the Act in question. The reasoning seems to be this: here is a law which makes a certain knowledge guilty, if the object of the party abroad, originating the transaction be in deed and in fact a guilty one. In order to give force and strength to the operation of this law, it must be so laid down as to render necessary some knowledge of either an innocent or of a guilty nature, in the party residing in England, of the plans and objects of the party abroad by whose order and for whose account he has shipped goods to the port indicated to him. This or that knowledge must exist in the agent: he must be called upon to produce even the very foreign merchant himself, over whom the Court can give the accused no control, over whom he himself is not shown to possess any, and whose testimony after all could not be trusted; since that of the accused, as recorded before the Committee, is not. If in this, or in some other way, he does not prove knowledge of an innocent object, the object must be taken to be a guilty one; and as the law must be understood to require a knowledge, and he shows no innocent knowledge, the inference remains of a guilty knowledge: from which it seems evident that shipping agency business cannot be safely undertaken, as has been heretofore done, at least for merchants residing in countries in which slave dealing still exists, not only in Africa, but Cuba, Brazils, the United States, and other places. But merchants in England are required to master the whole object and plan of their correspondents abroad; and that the sincerity of his endeavours will be measured only by the result, is what common prudence will teach a man to expect from the machinery which is set on foot in order to apply to this Act of Parliament that notable remark, that who wills the end wills the means.

And thus, after having laid down that the Act requires a proof of innocence in the party accused, a knowledge of something innocent intended—which, if not given, must leave the inference of guilty knowledge, inasmuch as no knowledge, ignorance of the object, cannot be taken as an answer—the accused, if he cannot produce his correspondent, or if he did not possess himself at the time of making the shipment, of a plain and simple account of his plans, is left to the mercy of such inferences as may be drawn; and upon this view of the requirements of the Act of Parliament he is to be considered as withholding something which cannot be supposed to be favourable to him. This inference will not be counterbalanced—it cannot be when once admitted; it must either be destroyed by the plain and simple account of what the merchant abroad intended, or its edge will be blunted by nothing else. The accused’s character may be “of the very highest,” perfectly unassailable; the position he occupies in the mercantile profession may be very high, the profession itself in this country being reckoned on a level for honour and principle with the highest; and men of unblameable character, of considerable standing and independence, conscientious and upright, moving in society where good taste and right feeling prevail, are not likely to put their property, their character, their consciences, in jeopardy, especially by partaking in transactions to which their habits and feelings, and those of persons around them, stand opposed, and all that for very paltry advantage. It is pointed out by the learned Judge, that although a very grave charge, and of a very highly penal nature, still the slave trade—the dealing in slaves—“is a trade, which till a recent period was lawful for persons in this country, and many persons of very good character certainly did engage in that trade, and a great number of persons justified it. I suppose,” he continues, “those same persons would now say it is not to be engaged in, because it is a prohibited thing—it is a regulation of trade enforced by very severe penalties made by this country—but that the dealing in slaves is in itself a lawful, right, good, and proper thing, which ought not to be prohibited. Those persons would now consider slave trading as a thing prohibited only by positive regulations. There is no one who does not at once perceive that practical distinction between them. There is no person who, in point of feeling and opinion, does not perceive the difference there is between a thing which is prohibited by positive law, and that kind of thing, against which, if there were no law at all against it, the plain natural sense and conscience of mankind would revolt. This trading in slaves, in the opinion of a great many persons, is itself an abomination, a thing which ought to be considered with the greatest horror, whether prohibited or not; but those who think it was right when it was not prohibited, probably do not think it so very bad if it be committed now, since it has been prohibited by law, only that it is to be avoided on account of the penalty to which it subjects the individuals engaged in it. This has some bearing on the question of how far considerations of character would have weight with respect to such an offence.” The opinion entertained by the individual in question against the slave trade may be as strong as the strongest for any thing that appears, who has stated without its having been contradicted, that neither himself nor his family have ever been suspected of having the smallest interest in slave dealing, or in slave property, about which he has stated how his fathers have proceeded: an individual, who may, perhaps, have a very strong opinion as to the moral and religious duty of obedience to positive enactments by competent authority, and who said something to that effect in the evidence before the Committee of the House of Commons, which had been read in Court.

This as to the character of the party. As to the inducement, when it is alleged that the smallness of the agency commission charged shows that the transaction was considered to be one in the ordinary course of shipping business, that consideration is pressed down by the weight of the radical defect in not having given a plain and simple account of what was intended by the foreign merchant. “It is alleged,” says the Judge, “that the profit on this transaction would be extremely small. I do not think that the petty gain of this one transaction is the matter, for it appears that Pedro Martinez & Co. do a great deal of business, and it is possible that whenever persons have a large and valuable business to conduct, there is some small portion that the correspondent and agent would willingly get rid of if he could; but he is not allowed to pick and choose, but he must take the whole.” In short, a London merchant, of the character which has been described, is to be supposed as not at all unlikely to commit a felony, if the alternative be to lose a valuable connexion.

And thus, whilst the most unimpeachable character is not a proof to any extent against the suspicion of a felonious knowledge and intent, and whilst the token of innocence afforded by the charge of the ordinary rates allowed in legitimate business is not considered of weight—as a compensation in some other way is possible, and the disposition to barter conscience and duty for money is such a thing as people who conduct a large business are not quite unlikely to lend themselves to if they are not allowed to pick—so, likewise, the supposed extent of the connexion of the merchant is no bar to their being supposed anxious to retain one more under felonious conditions. Neither the superiority of his knowledge and education, nor his skilfulness, are likely to make him either apprehensive or disinclined to the commission of a crime, whilst these qualities render him obnoxious to the remark, “that it may very generally be taken, that people know what they are about, unless they can show there was some particular concealment, some hinderance to their knowledge;” “unless they,” so accused, “can show,” that they did not know (not if those who accuse them have shown that they did know), then all the qualities of character, station, extent of business, education, are against the accused; and unless the accused can show, that he had a knowledge of something innocent having been intended by the foreign merchant, any peculiar circumstances of the case, which may appear to be of a favourable nature to the accused, must be considered only in that light which may diminish the improbability of his having had a guilty knowledge. Thus, as the employment of the British flag for the purpose of dealing in slaves stares every body in the face, and was a very strong feature in the present case, not only against any knowledge on the part of the charterer of the vessel and shipper of the goods in England, but even against there having been any guilty intent in the merchant abroad, who had the choice of other flags equally secure and less easy of detection and punishment, the favourable inference hence arising must be neutralised. “If Jennings” (the master of the vessel) “was an adventurer, if he were, as suggested, a very clever and intelligent person, and very conversant with every thing to be done on this occasion, a competent master of the vessel, supposing the slave trade to be intended, a thing which requires qualities one is sorry to see exercised so ill—a great deal of courage, sagacity, and presence of mind, and an unscrupulous readiness to employ them for the commission of this felony, not to be found in everybody—a man of such a description would be the paramount object of a slave trader, whose aim would be, whoever the owner may be, to elude all search, so to manage the thing as that the cruizers of any country shall not stop him. Probably, if the adventure succeeds, it must succeed by such means, so that one sees a perfectly good reason why, consistently with this being a slave trading voyage, it may have been English owned.” Not a word appears in the proceedings against the character of this man, neither does it seem intended by the learned Judge to impugn it, simply to say that if the man did possess the qualities of cleverness and courage attributed to him, these qualities being very serviceable for wicked purposes, it is to be inferred that they were intended to be applied to a slave trade adventure, since no plain and simple account of a lawful intent on the part of the foreign merchant has been given by the charterer in England, with whom the law is to be supposed to make a knowledge imperative. The prosecutor knew, although it was not before the Court, that this man had been tried for the very identical offence in this matter of the Augusta at Sierra Leone, and had been acquitted; for the chief witness in this prosecution, in which, be it observed, Jennings is coupled with me (see the indictment, [page 211]), was the prosecutor in the proceedings against him before the criminal court of that colony; and he himself stated before the Committee of the House of Commons (see Lieutenant Hill’s evidence, [page 84]), that Jennings had been acquitted. And here, by the way, let it be noticed, that Jennings is at this moment under a prosecution in London for the very crime for which he was tried at Sierra Leone and there acquitted, the chief and really the only witness, upon whose sworn depositions before the Grand Jury here the bill against Jennings has been found, being the very same person who instituted the prosecution at Sierra Leone, which terminated in the acquittal of Jennings. And thus, while the individual so acting is at this moment on his way to take possession of his appointment as governor of the Gold Coast, the unfortunate man, who he knows cannot be tried a second time, is in prison.

Further, as the vessel had been admitted (how reluctantly may be easily seen) by one witness not to have been furnished with equipment of any sort for slaving purposes, and had been rescued from the attempt to raise a doubt upon this point, by the evidence of another witness, this is shown also as in no way serving the shipping-agent in England without giving the plain and simple account of what was intended by the foreign merchant residing abroad. “I should think it would be quite a matter of course, even if the vessel was intended to be sent to promote the slave trade, that she should not go out with shackles or leagers, or any thing of that kind on board; for if they are on board, the vessel would be at the mercy of any Custom-house officer.”

The vessel had, however, been at Cadiz, where, according to the representation made on behalf of the prosecution she was really meant to go first, in order to provide herself with the slave instructions, which the Court would not receive, though strongly pressed, as evidence against the agent who had managed the vessel in England so far as chartering and loading her; and yet, although it had been said by Serjeant Bompas “that wherever a vessel leaves a place such as Spain, or some place where she may leave with impunity, with all her equipments complete,” she does so; and although this vessel, which has been charged by the prosecution to have gone into Cadiz for the very purpose of helping the illegal object imputed: she is found not to have been there equipped—and that not from any great attention to the safety of the adventure, for the letters contended to be so clearly slave instructions for the voyage seem to have been there put on board—still the observation is not the less applied, that she was not equipped for the slave trade, because she could not have been so in an English port, without any reference to the fact that the prosecution had contended she could and would have so been at a Spanish port. There she had, however, touched; and that too, according to the prosecution, for the very express purpose of helping the illegal object in a manner more condemnatory than any other. The thing demanded from the prisoner is, however, a plain and simple account of the intent of the foreign merchant in this transaction, and without his being able to give that, every other circumstance which may be favourable to him, either vanishes away, or converts itself into a weapon against him.

Again, the counsel for the defence had put the following case to the Jury:—“You may be manufacturers of guns or gunpowder, or commission-agents living in this country, who, for the purpose of shipment, purchase those goods; in either case a party comes and says—I want 1,000 muskets and six tons of gunpowder to be shipped to a certain place on the coast of Africa. I ask you, are you first to consult the map to ascertain the place, and, having ascertained where it is, are you to go to Captain Hill or Captain Denman and inquire whether they have been upon the coast of Africa, and can tell you the character of the trade carried on there? Are you next, the person being a Spaniard or a Portuguese, to inquire whether they ever deal in slaves; and if you find they do, are you to say, I will execute no order you give me?”

Upon this the learned Judge remarks:—“That Zulueta & Co. stand in a very different situation from that of a person who is simply the manufacturer or dealer in goods, and who has those goods ordered, and who, inquiring Where shall I send them? is answered, Send them on board the ‘Augusta,’ now lying at Liverpool. It would be a strong thing from that circumstance to infer that a person sending those goods on board had any thing to do with slave trading; but that appears not to be the nature of this transaction. In regard to there being a slave trading, all that is done, is done by Zulueta & Co. It is not merely that they had goods sent on board the ship, but they chose the number of the goods to be sent on board the ship, goods which they had bought, for which they had negotiated; and they made out such charter-party, and that charter-party provides that the ship shall proceed to Gallinas on the coast of Africa.”

In the case of the manufacturer of the goods, described as receiving an order and executing it, and shipping the goods on board a vessel for the Gallinas, it would be strong to infer that he had any thing to do with the slave trade. Why so, but because every one of these acts is compatible with ignorance of the objects that are or may be intended? Now, the learned Judge had previously established that the acts of buying and shipping, chartering, and dispatching, are not necessarily in themselves conclusive of guilt, which of course they are not; how, then, is the inapplicability of the comparison put by the counsel for the defence to be maintained, but by laying down the principle, that for the purpose of a defence under this charge, the commission-agent must, at all events, be required to be possessed of, and therefore to be able to give, a plain and simple account of what the merchant abroad intended; and this once laid down, nothing that comes short of it must be suffered to tell in his favour.

The preceding remarks are scattered over the whole of the summing up, and accompany a recapitulation of the particulars of the case. They are here brought together in succession, for the purpose of showing the manner in which the circumstances of the case, in a proceeding of this kind, are treated. It is very true that an introductory remark precedes, laying down “that it is necessary undoubtedly, on the part of the prosecution, that there should be a case made of knowledge, on the part of the prisoner, of the purpose for which this adventure was meant.” The whole process which follows is of a nature which would appear contrary to this principle, unless with the qualification that the proof is to consist in the prisoner not giving himself a plain and simple account of something innocent meant by the foreign merchant residing abroad; and as if the law left no alternative to the shipping-agent, who buys and ships the goods in England by his order, but to do this; or, ipso facto, by not doing so, to stand self-convicted of the guilty knowledge.

Under this view of the requirement of the law, which I have now followed throughout this charge, the concluding remarks of the Judge seem to be dictated. “Now, inasmuch as there are two other partners, and it is probable there might be some other persons in the concern, there arises this consideration. It is true, supposing that there were a case made, but that the prisoner was innocent of it, that he could not call Martinez & Co. on that supposition, as he might on the supposition of there being no slave trading; for Martinez & Co. would not be innocent persons, and they would not be willing to come into this country and say, ‘We carried on the slave trading, but it was disguised from our correspondent, Zulueta & Co.’ If you think there is a case requiring an answer, the question then is, would there have been any difficulty in the prisoner calling his two partners, and others conversant with the business of the firm, and proving that Zulueta & Co. knew nothing at all about this, that they had not the least suspicion, that Martinez & Co. never communicated the fact to them, and that the illegal purpose was utterly unknown to them, for some reasons which the prisoner cannot give, but which his partners could? It would be extremely desirable they should do it, if the defence existed in point of fact.” And lastly, the learned Judge concludes his address to the Jury, by directing their attention to the evidence of the character of the prisoner, remarking, that it is “a character I should say very strong indeed, and almost conclusive, supposing the case were one that did not admit of an answer in point of fact.”

Here the same principle of demanding a justification of innocence is carried out, which pervades the whole of the summing up, and of every part of the management of the case by the Court. It is not said, in any one part of the charge, that the prosecution have made out either a case of slave dealing, or any knowledge of such a thing being intended, or known to be intended by the prisoner, against which a contrary case should be opened and proved; but only that evidence which the prisoner should give of innocence is pointed out; and, what is most remarkable, the following circumstance was not thought worthy of notice.

Mr. Fitz-Roy Kelly (the counsel for the defence) had in the outset, when Mr. Serjeant Bompas was opening the evidence for the prosecution, brought into Court every book, letter, and paper of the firm of Zulueta & Co., with the clerks in whose keeping these documents constantly are: they consisted of the journals, ledgers, letters, bill-books, memorandum-books, original letters of the house of Martinez & Co., of the Havannah, and Martinez of Cadiz, since 1839, one year before these transactions originated, up to 1841, one year after their termination; and, as will be found in [page 303], Mr. Kelly made the following tender:—“I ought to add, as the notice to produce has been referred to, and is now upon the table, that the notice calls upon the prisoner, Mr. Zulueta, to produce all the books, documents, and accounts of his house, between certain dates, at all relating to the transaction in question; and all letters written, and copies of letters written by this house, or any body for them in relation to this matter. My Lord, every document there mentioned is here in Court, and in two minutes ready to be put upon the table.... The greater part are in Spanish, and the prisoner at the bar can distinguish them; but the clerks who kept these books, the corresponding clerk, and the clerk in whose handwriting they are, are ready to speak to any thing my learned friend may call for from the beginning to the end.” This is not taken any notice of by the learned Judge, when pointing out that the prisoner should have called his own father and his own brother, the only partners in the house, to prove that Zulueta & Co. had no knowledge of any slave trading being intended, although the prisoner himself had so stated the fact to be before the Committee of the House of Commons, in the evidence which had been read in Court; and if the statement was objectionable, as being from the party now deeply interested himself, when in a very different situation, it is not perceived how that objection would not have held with tenfold strength at that moment against their evidence. Thus it remains on record, that nothing short of a plain and simple account of what the merchant abroad intends, made out by the defendant, will answer any purpose of the slightest advantage to himself. It is enough in the case of a vessel employed by an agent in England to carry goods, bought and shipped by himself, by order and for account of a foreign merchant residing abroad, if the prosecutor show a general slaving at the port of destination.

And thus have I disposed of the last point which I proposed to illustrate out of the summing up of Justice Maule, in order to show the position of merchants who have intercourse of business with countries wherein slavery, and the slave trade, is still permitted to exist.

I began by showing the facility afforded by the law to any individual whomsoever, who may choose to undertake a prosecution, not only without the consent, but against the recorded judgment of the Legislature, and the known opinion of those officers of the Crown who are especially charged with the prosecution of public offenders. I have shown, that this may be done by any man—whether from motives of private resentment, or of private interest, or of wanton malice—whether under a fanatical hallucination, or from a desire of vain-glory, or from a combination of all or of some of the very worst passions of the heart with the less inexcusable errors of the head, it matters not: the search for the particular motive operating in any one given instance is indeed unprofitable, and whilst it cannot do much towards reclaiming the perpetrator of the mischief, would but little improve the moral tone of mind of his victim, yet the fact itself remains unaltered, viz. that a prosecution of this kind, in the name of the Queen, which the forms of justice require to be used, and on the plea of a public spirit, may be taken up by any man in defiance of a recommendation to the contrary by the House of Commons, upon a case canvassed and decided upon by a Committee of that House, and against the opinion of the law officers of the Crown. It has also appeared, that to the general and very powerful objections which are suggested by the common sense and reason of mankind against this practical reversion to the state of savage life in which a man can take such means of attack upon his fellow-man as he thinks will effect his purpose best, with this sole difference, that the self-appointed public prosecutor may inflict even greater mischief with the weapon of the law than the savage with the knife, and more securely, this evil is added, viz. that this private avenger of public wrongs may adopt the form of a secret information before a Grand Jury, thus avoiding the necessity of appearing as the accuser, unless he chooses so to do, at his own most convenient time, and always preserving the secrets of his own statements, by means of which the first blow at all events will have been successfully, irremediably, and fatally inflicted, and thus placing himself above any responsibility on that account. Then it has been seen, that at this stage of the proceedings, and under all the ignorance as to the prosecutor and as to the depositions upon which he is charged, inseparable from the nature of the proceedings, a man, reputed honourable, as unsuspecting himself as unsuspected by his fellow-citizens, may be dragged from his office and from the bosom of his family, with imminent risk to his business, and with still more fearful effect upon his dearest connexions; and under the shock of his own feelings, which so awful a situation must naturally produce, is conducted as a common felon under charge of the police to the station-house, and thence to the Old Bailey, whence he can only be suffered to depart (of course in exactly the same state of ignorance under which he entered the Court), when the person who arrested him shall have consented, and on such terms as he shall consent to; and then only will he be allowed to return to his distracted family and prepare his defence—against what? against a technical definition of some facts in which he has played some part, but which being so defined as to square with the application which may be meant to be made of a certain Act of Parliament, is sure to bear no kind of resemblance to the real manner in which the said facts occurred, and of course none at all to the impression which they left on the mind of the accused, or to the form in which alone they can present themselves to his mind; and, therefore, such a definition can convey no information of the nature of the depositions secretly made against him, and cannot consequently assist him in preparing evidence against them. He must launch into the regions of imagination for every possible construction which may be given by any man to those facts which have been really done by him, and prepare evidence upon every one of such possible constructions, at an expense and amidst perplexity which may be supposed, and after all most likely to no purpose, for probably the construction to which the proof will be directed by the prosecution may be one against which no counterproof has been prepared; and indeed it will be so, for with this very object the proof will be directed to the construction least likely to occur to the accused, and that upon which a counterproof will be most difficult—for all which the nature of the Act of Parliament has been seen to afford peculiar advantages.

In this state of things the trial comes on. The facilities thus far given to an unknown accuser have been seen, and to so frightful an extent, that even if the trial proceeds no further, an amount of incalculable and irreparable evil and misery may have been perpetrated. These facilities, it has been further seen, are not at all balanced by the strictness of the requirements of the law from the prosecution, they are all applied against the accused. The definition of the crime by the Act of Parliament is itself loose and capable of an unlimited application, and it is understood and laid down in the very largest, thereby including acts which are notoriously and expressly admitted to be in themselves perfectly innocent: the only qualification is the knowledge. This is brought to a lower point in the scale, viz. suspicion. With a show of ingenuousness, as if to put down a quibble, which in Court sounds like a zeal for the truth, the question is made to be, not whether you knew, but whether you suspected; and next, whether you had reason to suspect; the tendency really being towards the real point, to which you are only being gently let down, viz. whether witnesses can be found who will say that they themselves knew very well a great many things, which ought therefore to have been known by yourself, and that therefore you must at least have suspected.

Then the prosecution is not limited to the proof of one particular charge: here it is suffered to remain quite at large—they need not define the act they mean to charge, whether it is this, or that, or any thing else, upon the accused. The knowledge of the intent, in which every lawyer in the land whom you may consult previous to entering into any operation, will tell you, before you are indicted, that the guilt consists, after being brought down to a lower point, as observed before, is made out to be, 1st, any knowledge, not the knowledge in the particular case; 2nd, the knowledge of others, not your knowledge; and the proof of it is no further put upon the prosecution than so far as to make out a case of probable knowledge, founded upon evidence of some general acts done by certain persons on other occasions, not the one in question, in distant countries—acts to which you are not shown to have been a party, or even probably acquainted with—persons in respect of whom all your proceedings in England are admitted to be in themselves, and as done towards them, perfectly innocent; such acts being done upon such other occasions by such persons in countries far away, little known, with which no regular means of communication exist—countries almost unknown to every one in England, and not at all proved to be known to yourself: and all this evidence given by individuals not in circumstances analogous to those in which the accused stands, but by individuals, and by no others, who in the exercise of a peculiar duty have sometimes visited the countries in question; and therefore leaving the whole of the case open to this remark, that whilst it is not at all shown, either from your own acts, or from the facts themselves, that you in England must necessarily have known, there is an evident impropriety in pushing the witnesses to the extent of proving, that nothing but what they said to have happened on other occasions in other places, could have been the ultimate issue of an unaccomplished speculation, intercepted by one of the witnesses, to his evident advantage.

It has lately been shown that such a case of probable knowledge, so made out, and so substantiated, will go to the Jury; and in going to the Jury nothing will avail you, as far as the law goes, but your being able to give “a plain and simple account of what was intended by a foreign merchant residing abroad,” whom you must even bring over to give evidence of what he intended to do with goods shipped by yourself in England, in consequence of a simple order as a mere commission-agent, or to show an impossibility of your being aware of that intent whatever it may be. Without complying with one or other of these two requirements, your case shall go to the Jury, accompanied by every unfavourable inference; and what should have been for your advantage is turned against you. The readiness and openness of the party accused in giving every explanation upon the very first intimation of a suspicion existing on the subject—the credit attached by every one capable of correctly estimating those explanations, whatever circumstances of a favourable nature may lie on the very surface of the case itself—the respectability of the accused, his rank in society, and high character, as vouched by men of the first standing, and who have every opportunity of knowing him and his acts—his wealth, his education, his knowledge—qualities peculiarly adapted to this kind of felony, which is intimated to be the felony of the honest, the wealthy, the educated, the well-informed—all these things seem in the exposition of the law to be literally against him. Nevertheless, these circumstances, combined with the impression produced by the inquisitorial nature of the original proceedings, together with the irresistible force of that axiom, that “a man must be proved to be guilty, and not called upon to prove himself innocent,” may—and thanks be to God, did, in the instance before us—blunt the edge of the murderous weapon brandished over the head of the accused.

There may be something so revolting in the whole conduct of such proceedings to the consciences of men, as to stand in the way of a conviction by an English Jury; but it has been seen in what way every other indignity may, at all events, be safely inflicted; and as affecting men and families of certain education and feeling—who, be it never forgotten, are the very parties said to be most obnoxious to the charge—a verdict of guilty need not arrive, to produce evils as great or greater than any penalties which it is possible for any human law to impose. And when it is considered—first, that the legitimate popular sense of words is distorted in order to call slave trading that, which is neither directly nor indirectly dealing in slaves; secondly, that under the guise of a question of fact, a very subtle metaphysical argument about the nature and the degree of knowledge in the mind of an individual, is the thing really submitted to minds the least likely to apprehend the very nice distinction upon which the decision must hang—and, lastly, when every means are industriously resorted to in order to make it appear that the crime largely prevails in the class to which the accused is likely to belong, and to represent that the only difficulty is to get over the technicalities of legal evidence, but that moral evidence abounds—when all these things are taken together, it is easy to discover how much even the failure of such a prosecution as this, facilitates the next attempt: perhaps it may be practically found that it does so, more than its success could have done.

The resolution of the London Committee of the Anti-Slavery Society of the 8th of December, which has been already quoted, broadly states the prevalence of the crime among British merchants; and another, of a still more recent date, besides repeating the same assertion in another form, clearly intimates that the obstacle to its being visited as it deserves, does not consist in the want of proof of the existence of the guilt, but in “the difficulty encountered in the course of the prosecution in an English Court of Law:” that is, in the technicalities of the rules of evidence, even after the stretch of these rules, which this particular Act of Parliament would, by the experience of the late proceedings, seem to demand.

These resolutions, just published, passed by the Committee on the 29th December, are as follows:—

“Zulueta’s Trial.—At a meeting of the Committee of the British and Foreign Anti-Slavery Society, held at 27, New Broad Street, on Friday, December 29, 1843, George William Alexander, Esq., in the chair, the following resolutions were adopted:—

“I. That this Committee, regarding the recent trial of Pedro de Zulueta, Jun., on a charge of slave trading, in the Central Criminal Court, on the 27th of October last, and following days, as an event of the highest interest and importance, feel it their duty to express their sentiments on the state of things which has been developed by it.

“II. That, abstaining from all comment on the verdict of the Jury, this Committee regard the following points as brought out with great force by this trial, viz.—

“1. That articles of British manufacture are principally used on the coast of Africa in barter for slaves.

“2. That British merchants who are engaged in furnishing such supplies to slave traders are practical supporters of the African slave trade.

“3. That, although a British merchant may furnish supplies to the most notorious slave traders in the world, the evidence by which a charge of aiding and abetting the slave trade can be substantiated against him is of such a nature that it is extremely difficult, if not almost impossible, to prosecute such an offender to conviction.

“4. That the practice of aiding and abetting the slave trade by supplying goods to slave traders prevails to a considerable extent among British merchants, and that, by a portion of the mercantile community, it is not regarded with the sentiments due to its flagitious character.

“III. That this Committee regard in particular the last fact now stated with the deepest and most poignant regret; and that they earnestly invoke, not so much the fear of punishment as the sense of honour, of justice, and of benevolence, in the British community, for the correction of so great an evil.

“IV. That the difficulties encountered in the course of this prosecution in an English court of justice, and the extended ramifications of the slave trading interest which have been developed by it, have, in the judgment of this Committee, confirmed the principle held by the British and Foreign Anti-Slavery Society, that the only effectual mode by which the slave trade can be abolished is the abolition of slavery itself.

“John Scoble, Secretary.”

In these resolutions, the Committee describe the particular matter which they had under their consideration, viz. the supply of British goods. Not so in the previous resolution of the 9th of December (see [page xxvi]). In it a hope is expressed, that by the proceedings against Pedro de Zulueta, “a salutary check will be given to the notorious implication of British capital and commerce in that nefarious traffic.” How this implication takes place is not pointed out. Upon the merits of the matters contained in these resolutions, it is not, of course, my intention to enter; I take them as they are put forth, for the only purpose which perhaps gives them any value or importance, viz. as expressions of the sentiments and opinions of people who show every disposition to sanction, and have the pecuniary means required in order to encourage or to assist others in the use of that power of private prosecution which every one possesses, even if they themselves are not inclined to exercise it in their own persons.

Now, although it is not distinctly stated in the resolution just quoted how this notorious implication of British capital is supposed to take place—not to say any thing at present about a most unjustifiable use of the word notorious, which, in these matters, is constantly made—the mode in which the implication takes place must be supposed to be large enough to be notorious—large enough, when even a check to it is made the object of hope and the subject of a resolution, which, as it conveys a serious charge against fellow-citizens, nothing but a very overwhelming sense of the necessity of a check could have induced the Committee to overcome the painfulness of publishing. The term could not properly apply to any direct concern in the slave trade; that would be something more than implication. It cannot be confined to the supply of goods, since this is a subject treated in a separate set of resolutions. It must be taken to apply to other operations also, such as occur in the progress of a mercantile intercourse with other countries in which slavery, or the slave trade, are permitted to exist, and must apply to all or any transactions with those countries, at least, unless a clear and distinct separation can be made that will render it quite certain and quite capable of proof that neither the slave trade nor slavery can possibly be forwarded directly or indirectly by the transaction. This is the only certain way of avoiding implication. This sense of the charge against British merchants at large, is perhaps the only one which can render either intelligible or practicable the observation which was so emphatically delivered by the learned Serjeant Bompas in his opening speech at the trial, that “if merchants in this country would not accept bills drawn by slave traders, if they would not send goods from this country to be employed for the purpose—in fact, the trade could not be carried on at all.”

And whether this rather extraordinary assertion be or be not correct, I deal with it as with the resolutions of the Anti-Slavery Committee—it is quite enough, upon such a question, and with such momentous interests at stake, that such opinions prevail in certain quarters, and that the power exists of giving them that fatal effect which these proceedings reveal, in order to force upon us, as merchants, the consideration of whether any mercantile transactions whatsoever can possibly be carried on with countries wherein the slave trade or slavery exist, with any real safety to our persons and to our property, whilst things remain as they have been shown to be in the practical development of the law.

It is very true, that previous to the late elucidation of its working, there were such high legal authorities on the subject, as will be found in the pages immediately following this address; and even now, if a case is placed before the very highest counsel of the land, you will be told that knowledge, wilful knowledge, of the guilty intent can condemn the acts upon which you are seeking advice—that that, of itself, will condemn the most indirect—and nothing short of that can condemn the most direct act of abetting the slave trade. But, in order to make good a charge, the evidence of a probable knowledge is made up of those very acts which, without presupposing the knowledge, you had been told are innocent, perfectly legal, and such as you could perform. When once that case of probable knowledge is thus made out, you are called upon to meet it with a case of your own, in which you cannot allege, with any success, the innocent nature of your acts; for although those have been already declared to be innocent in themselves, they are also taken as evidence that you must be possessed of a knowledge of what they were intended to be made subservient to by a foreigner at some thousands of miles distant, in a country which to you may be terra incognita.

The question resolves itself therefore into one of prudence, about which you will be told by the learned Counsel, and properly told, that you alone can be, and you alone must be, the judge, viz. whether, under the state of the law which has been developed, it is safe to enter into any dealings, not which you know or suspect (this is a fraud of the law), but which may be rendered subservient, however indirectly by others, to a slave trading purpose. The letter of the law seems to speak of knowingly and wilfully aiding and abetting the slave trade, and so it is expounded by the highest legal authority of the land, when consulted upon any one case in perspective; but the practice renders this a most egregious fraud on the part of the law itself, which presents itself under false colours; for, whilst in theory it does not permit of any other advice being given for its observance than that just mentioned, in practice it has been seen how the proof of your knowledge is established, not by evidence produced against you, but by that which you do not produce when a case of probable knowledge, founded upon knowledge of others in totally different circumstances, has been made out.

These things speak for themselves and show what is the practical situation of merchants trading with countries in which dealing in slaves and slave negotiations are both legal and of common occurrence. I need not say, that the United States, Cuba, Brazils, and a large portion of Europe, without talking of Africa, fall exactly under this description. It has been admitted, for indeed it cannot be denied, that it is impracticable to draw a line of separation, in order to distinguish the illicit from the licit traffic, in countries where they both subsist, for they are interwoven and mix themselves with, and merge the one into, the other. This is perfectly clear, and indeed the only intelligible account of the matter. Under such a view of the nature of the thing—after what has been brought to light in the late proceedings as to the mode in which a man may be attacked, with ruin staring him in the face at the first onset, whatever the subsequent result may be, seized on—laid hold of at any, perhaps the most critical, moment—after what has been seen of the method in which his prosecution will be suffered to be carried on, and the manner in which the evidence will be made to bear, in order to prove the knowledge which constitutes the guilt—after seeing that no precaution can guard a man against the attack, and no endeavour to ascertain the real sense of the treacherous law, which speaks one thing and means a very different one—after seeing that as a merchant of wealth, character, and education, he carries in those very circumstances as many presumptions of guilt—after it has been shown that the only thing which can save him, according as the law is laid down and administered, is that which in the nature of mercantile transactions is, and must be in almost every case impossible—after all this, which the late proceedings have so strongly brought to light—there remains but one safe course, viz. to abstain from all mercantile intercourse with countries in which slavery or the slave trade exists.

The absurdity which appears on the face of such a statement as this just made, involving as it does the cutting off communication with half the world at least, and leaving the communication with the other half very much on the footing of an inconsistency, renders the accuracy of the rule, as a conclusion from the preceding reasoning, very suspicious. I appeal, however, to every candid and honest mind whether it be or it be not the conclusion which, but for its absurdity, (if so it is to be called) would be imperative, and such as could not be avoided without manifest want of honesty. If such is the real fact—if the conclusion is just and legitimate, and yet it leads to something absurd and wrong; then the principles upon which it proceeds must themselves be the wrong-doers. The state of the law, which leaves no other alternative than that of an impracticable absurdity on the one side, and on the other an exposure, imminent and threatening, to an indictment, followed up by the most terrible consequences, even if a conviction does not take place—must be wrong. It deserves a stronger epithet, lest it should be thought that by wrong is only meant unwise—it is positively of the very nature of a national crime—it is a deep moral stain upon the people who suffer this state of things to continue in all its hideous deformity, whilst the victims to such a state of the law could only be looked upon as barbarously sacrificed: the people tolerating its continuance, when once made aware of what was being done, could be considered only as a race of heartless, cruel tyrants. In the pursuit of a praiseworthy object it is very possible, and indeed it is not uncommon, for a nation no less than for an individual to betray itself into a very false position, which is made so much the more mischievous, because, in the case of the nation no less than the individual, people are found ready to take advantage of that position. But so soon as the evil reveals itself in this practical shape, the nation, quite as much as the individual, is called upon to remove the very possibility of a repetition of the act of oppression arising from that false position.

And what is the false position in which this country appears before the whole world in the matter before us? It is this. Here is a people with whom trade and manufactures form very important elements of wealth, independent of the justly admitted tendency of both to promote civilization—a most important, but not the present consideration—these people thrive largely by their mercantile intercourse with Cuba, with the Brazils, with Spain and with Portugal, with the United States, with Africa, so much so, that they cannot dispense with that trade. Those of their people who follow the commercial career in all its branches, their merchants, manufacturers, and ship-owners, and conduct the intercourse with those countries, materially contribute to the welfare and to the prosperity of every class of the community in which they live. They contribute not a little to the support of the State, and when an emergency arises, when the credit of the country and the honour of the Crown are at stake, they are among the first upon whom the call is made, and is not made in vain: and yet the state of the law among this people who derive the important benefits, which have not certainly been exaggerated, from a commercial intercourse with the countries just mentioned, is such as to place those of their fellow-countrymen, who conduct that intercourse, and are therefore nearest in contact with those countries, liable to be dragged from the scene of their labours, so vital to the prosperity of this people, as common felons, upon an indictment secretly procured and obtained; and their very acts, notoriously necessary for carrying on the very operations of commerce, which the country cannot dispense with, are in the first instance to form the presumption of the guilt, and afterwards the proof of it, unless they can prove them to be not guilty. It is true that this people have anathematized a branch of trade which subsists in those countries, and have expunged that trade from their code of licit pursuits at an immense sacrifice to themselves, and are determined to extinguish it among the nations of the earth, as far as it can be done by lawful means; but inasmuch as they cannot dispense with all other intercourse with other countries, although fully aware that from that intercourse the proscribed traffic must necessarily derive assistance (since it cannot be separated from any one licit pursuit in the countries wherein it prevails), they are bound so to construct the law as to protect the men who conduct that intercourse, against any attacks which may be founded more or less on the use to which others, and not themselves, may turn the acknowledged necessary and legitimate acts, without which the intercourse cannot exist. And if such be the meaning of the law, as I have no doubt whatever there is not one man in Great Britain at all acquainted with these matters, who has not been, to this moment, in the understanding that such and no other was the state of the case—if it be not meant that the intention is that a law shall be made with apparently one meaning, and to be used for a quite different purpose—when the perversion which it seems to authorise shall have been discovered, sharpened by the application of the right of private prosecution, and in the form of a secretly procured indictment, which destroys before it convicts—there is only one of these honest courses left—either let the law—a clearer law—be substituted for that which exists, or let it be clearly explained; and, at all events, let the right of prosecution be placed exclusively in hands, and limited to a course of proceeding, which will afford some guarantee for its right use. Let us cast away from us the worst features of the Inquisition.

It cannot be meant to leave matters so—that the nation shall be deriving all the benefits of commercial intercourse with the countries already mentioned, trusting to our desire for profit as merchants to get the better of our prudence as reasonable men—that we shall be content to run the risk of private prosecution, and secretly procured indictments, of arrest, imprisonment, ruin, disgrace, transportation, the sacrifice of all that is dear to a man on earth; and, therefore, that the nation will go on prospering by our labour, whilst we ourselves may be told that we need only be a little more careful. And all this, as if it was meant to be insinuated that if a victim is now and then made, it is expedient that it should be so; that it is not extremely harsh, since merchants are to be thought of only as men accustomed to risks, and therefore who get obdurate against adversity—as if it were assumed, that as to the victim so made, it is sure to be some one who has deserved his fate by a more than ordinary degree of temerity, by going a little too far, or by an act of rebellion against the attempt to fix the brand on his forehead, which really, when once we have suffered ourselves to be so far stigmatised, there can be little doubt will be designated as a degree of fastidiousness to which an exclusively money-making and money-loving race can have no just pretensions. You may trust to their rapacity (it would seem to be argued by this defamatory process, which before it is openly avowed must work its way by implying as much in action, as, if it were not too revolting, would be stated in as many words)—you may trust to their rapacity for any necessary amount of risk being encountered, and therefore no fear of trade being given up, because we make it a little—only just take care that it shall not appear too dangerous.

This is not, I am sure, the position which is meant to be taken by the country towards a profession heretofore deemed honourable, and which has become interwoven with the highest ranks of our society. It is not, it cannot be meant, that such be the state of things at home, as between the merchant and the country.

Neither is another position (in every moral point of view equally indefensible) to be taken by British merchants towards their correspondents abroad, even supposing it could last. It is well known and admitted, that a mercantile intercourse imposes a tacit contract between the two parties who carry on a correspondence, a breach of which can be visited by the law; that in the progress of the intercourse all acts mutually required within the mercantile usage, and not otherwise illegal or improper, shall be performed. If a man carries on a correspondence with another and a course of business, he is not at liberty, either as a matter of principle or of law, to break it off when and how he pleases. Are we called upon as merchants in England, either by the requirements of the law, or by public opinion, to encourage our foreign correspondents to send their sugars and their coffees, their tobacco and their cotton, their copper ore, their minerals, and other produce, to us in England, and when we are quite sure of our profits, when they begin to dispose of the proceeds of their property, and we fancy (which must be very soon, after what the late proceedings have exhibited) that we may render ourselves liable to a prosecution—are we then to turn round upon our correspondents, and say, “I cannot accept your bill until you show me that its proceeds are not going to buy slaves with?” “I cannot honour the credit you have opened in behalf of A, B, or C, because I see in the ‘Anti-Slavery Reporter,’ that ‘he is a notorious slave dealer.’” Are we, when our correspondent sends an order to buy a ship which is on public sale, and which may be employed in any trade, and goods which you, reader, may happen to manufacture yourself—are we then to turn upon our correspondent and say, “Show to us satisfactorily that these things are not intended by you or any one connected with you, indeed that they cannot be used, in promoting the slave trade?”

And again, are we to trust to the circumstance of his being in our power, and to the odium which the simple imputation of slave dealing will attach to him, to bear us out in our justification, should he bring an action against us? Are we, upon receiving an order from our correspondent, to lay it before counsel for their opinion, which we have seen will advance us very little? Shall we disclose the name of our correspondent with the insinuation that he may be a slave dealer, or that we suspect him to be one, or that some one else suspects him, thus helping, as far as we are able, to put his property in peril, and to render every communication with him dangerous? Shall we advertise our counting-houses in England, not, as they have been hitherto considered to be, the symbol of security and good faith, but as nests of treachery, deceit, and suspicion? and shall our intercourse with foreign merchants assume the character of covert espionage? A state of things such as this, inflicting gross injustice, cruel injury, inexpressible degradation, upon one class of men, and that class of which England has had hitherto good reason to be proud—such a state of things at home, and so much scandal and disgrace abroad, is not, cannot be, contemplated without feelings of the deepest horror.

I denounce this state of things as involving a national crime—as attended with national disgrace; I denounce it as a stain which should be wiped off without delay from the character of a nation eminently jealous of its public as much as of its private morality, as an offence to the religious feeling which is not wanting among us; I appeal to the conscience of every man in Great Britain against this state of things. May I not take upon myself to say, that I make this appeal in behalf of a class which yields to no other of the community in high principle or right feeling—a class which is not at all below the standard of morality, religious convictions, tastes, education, which may be set by the most distinguished in this country? I do appeal to the Legislature and to the Government of the land, which do not make laws or maintain them as a snare or a trap against a particular class of their subjects. I appeal to the Honourable Members of the Committee of the House of Commons on the West Coast of Africa, before whom I appeared in 1842; I appeal to them as senators, as gentlemen, as men of honour and principle—I do appeal to all, whether the position of merchants in mercantile intercourse with countries in which the slave trade and slavery exist, should remain as it has been shown to be now by the late proceeding; whether the laws should not be made such, that, whilst we should be answerable for our own acts, and for our participation and consent in the wrong acts of others, we may not be undone before we are even heard in our defence; that we may not be required to prove ourselves innocent before we are proved to be guilty; and, above all, that the right of prosecution may be confined to such hands, and its use to such a procedure as will afford the British merchant a guarantee against private, malicious, secretly conducted attacks, and will make his personal security something more than a mockery. I make this appeal with the same confidence in the result, which my conscience felt when I stood before the British Jury, into whose hands it pleased Providence, by so unexpected a proceeding, to place, in point of fact, my very existence—the existence of all that is dear to me on earth—of much that the world has had opportunities to try and has stamped as honourable in character—of much, not the less valuable because the world can never know of it—the Jury upon whose verdict hung the honour of this country—a country for whose honour and estimation among the nations of the earth I must feel strongly—and from which a gross and cruel injustice would be doubly felt, bound to it as I am by those ties, which it has been attempted barbarously to tear asunder, but which it is only in the power of God to dissolve.

P. DE ZULUETA.

London, 17th January, 1844.

OPINIONS OF THE LEGAL AUTHORITIES
Referred to in [p. lxii].

“1 & 2. There is not any thing in the Act of Parliament in question which renders illegal a commercial dealing on the coast of Africa, in usual lawful merchandise, though such dealing may be with a person known to gain his livelihood by dealing in slaves, and therefore of course, an owner or supercargo making a sale in the manner described to any such person, does not subject himself or the ship to any of the penalties of the Act.

“3. Independently of the above Act, an English owner, or master, or supercargo, or other person who engages in such commercial dealing as above described, is not guilty of any offence against the law, nor subject to any punishment.

(signed) “Fred. Pollock.”

“Temple, 8 June, 1842.

(Vide Report, West Coast of Africa, Part I, p. 344.)

“1. Unless the merchant knew, when he sold the goods, that they were used for carrying on the slave trade, I am clearly of opinion that he is not guilty of felony. The question of knowledge will be for the Jury, if the case is tried by a Jury, or by a Judge or Judges without a Jury, and will depend upon the evidence that is given either of direct knowledge, or that the circumstances were such that he must have known the destination and occupation of the vessel and her crew.

“2. It will appear from the statutes 11th and 12th, and 46th of Geo. III, c. 54, &c., that the merchant might be tried at Sierra Leone, and if so, I am disposed to think that the constituted authorities at Cape Coast would be warranted in apprehending him and sending him for trial to Sierra Leone, as the offence committed is felony.

“3. I hardly know what precautionary measures can be adopted by the Governor in cases where it is unknown whether the vessels are intended for the slave trade or not. The same articles that are used for bartering for slaves are no doubt also used in bartering for palm-oil, elephant’s teeth, and other African products, and to prohibit all dealing in such articles of barter would be greatly prejudicial to the innocent trade carried on with Africa. The Governor can hardly do more than warn merchants not to deal in such articles with suspected vessels upon peril of the consequences.

(signed) “W. Wightman.”

“Inner Temple, July 8th, 1840.

(Vide Report, West Coast of Africa, Part II, Appendix, &c., p. 25.)

“If a person fitted out a vessel to traffic with slave factories and settlements, and sold goods to those factories, out and out, though they were such as might be used for the slave trade, as well as the innocent commerce of the coast; and though, in point of fact, they were used in slave trading, he was of opinion that this did not amount to slave trading: whether it was a commendable use of capital or not, was a different question. If the goods sent out were of such a description that it could not be doubtful that they were to be used in the slave trade alone, such as a cargo of fetters or other implements that could only be employed in such a trade, he had stated that he deemed this much more doubtful, yet he was not prepared to say that it was an act of slave trading which would render the exporter of such articles liable to be tried for felony. But if goods were sent, whether of one kind or the other, whether of an ambiguous description, or plainly fitted for the slave trade alone, and the price of the goods was to depend (as the petitioners stated to be the fact) upon the slave trade, in which such goods were to be employed, he had stated that his opinion was that this was an act of slave trading, being in truth a partnership with slave traders, and the persons exporting such goods would be guilty of a felony within the meaning of the Abolition law.”

(Extract from Lord Brougham’s Speech before the House of Lords, Oct. 5, 1841. Vide Hansard’s Parliamentary Debates, Vol. LIX, fo. 1116.)

DOCUMENTS,
&c. &c.

R. R. Gibbons, Esq., to Messrs. Zulueta & Co.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Select Committee on West Coast of Africa.

Gentlemen, April 15th, 1842.

By Lord Stanley’s desire I send you a copy of Dr. Madden’s Report, on the Gold Coast, and its dependencies.

I am to add, that this is sent to you as being personally interested therein, but that you will be good enough to consider it as entirely confidential.

I have, &c.
R. R. Gibbons.

The Report of Dr. Madden forms part of the Appendix to the “Report from the Select Committee on the West Coast of Africa[3],” and although the first official communication which was received by the house of Messrs. Zulueta & Co., it is not inserted, in consequence of its want of connexion with the chief subject of this publication. It is entitled, “Report of Her Majesty’s Commissioner of Inquiry on the State of the British Settlements on the Gold Coast, at Sierra Leone, and the Gambia, with some Observations on the Foreign Slave Trading Factories along the Western Coast of Africa, in the Year 1841;” and sets forth its object as follows:—

“Pursuant to the instructions of Her Majesty’s Secretary of State for the Colonies, the following matters were duly examined into, and the result of the best consideration that could be given to these subjects will be found in the following order:—

“1st. The state and condition of our forts and settlements on the Western Coast of Africa, their trade, population, resources, and government.

“2d. The facilities afforded in these settlements to the foreign slave traders resorting to them, by affording supplies in goods or stores that are essential to the trade.

“3d. The prospects and practicability of emigration from Sierra Leone to our West India Colonies.

“4th. The climate, salubrity, and nature of the locality of our settlements on the Western Coast of Africa: and in addition to these subjects, I have to add the consideration of two very important ones, not specified in my instructions, but which, in their execution, became part and parcel of them, and which I conceived I would not have done my duty had I left unnoticed, or taken no steps to remove the evils connected with them; these subjects are:—

“1. The existence of slavery in our settlements on the Gold Coast.

“2. The co-operation of British commerce with slave-trade interests, at the factories of notorious slave dealers on the Western Coast of Africa.”

[3] Vide Part II, p. 9, et seq.

In treating of the last subject here mentioned, the following remarks occur:—

“It is very true the Consolidated Slave Law, the 5th of Geo. IV, comprehends every case of aiding and abetting the slave trade, that I have proposed to have still more formally and specifically prohibited; and there can be no question that any infraction of this law, whether by insuring slave property, selling goods for slave trading objects, lending money, or giving any species of assistance for the promotion of these objects in any court in England, where the case would be tried on its proper merits, and not decided on by a jury implicated or involved in the interests of slavery, that the offender would be convicted of the felony and punished. But few of those employed in judicial situations on the Western Coast of Africa have been persons belonging to the legal professions, and those who did belong to it, and were the advisers of our governors, have not been persons of very profound experience in the law, and the consequence has been that, with few exceptions, our authorities on the Western Coast of Africa hold the opinion that was entertained at Cape Coast as to the legality of aiding and abetting the slave dealers, of supplying them with the goods and stores essential to the purchase of the slaves. The Consolidated Slave Trade Act, of 1824, distinctly states in the very second clause, that it is unlawful ‘in any manner to engage, or to contract to engage, directly or indirectly therein (the slave trade), as a partner, agent, or otherwise, or to ship, tranship, lade, receive, or put on board, &c.... knowing that such ship, vessel, or boat is actually employed, &c.’....

“In the 7th clause, with the customary verbiage, it is declared, that ‘if any person shall knowingly and wilfully ship, or put on board of any vessel any money, goods, or effects, to be employed in accomplishing any of the objects hereinbefore declared unlawful, then and in every other such case the person so offending, and their procurers, counsellors, aiders, and abettors, shall forfeit and pay for every such offence double the value of all the money, goods, or effects so shipped, transhipped, laden, received, or put on board, or contracted so to be as aforesaid.’

“And by the 10th clause, the persons thus aiding and abetting the slave trade, are further declared to be felons, and shall be transported for a term not exceeding fourteen years, or confined and kept to hard labour for a term not exceeding five years, nor less than three years, at the discretion of the Court.

“The right and privilege heretofore exercised of suing in Vice-Admiralty Courts for the forfeitures or penalties incurred by the contravention of this law, are set forth in the 12th clause, notwithstanding any criminal proceedings that may have been instituted against the aiders and abettors of this trade. That the merchant in the case of the Dos Amigos had left himself subject to both sorts of proceedings there can be no doubt. In a case somewhat analogous to this, of recent occurrence, a British vessel, commanded by a British subject, the Augusta, dispatched by a London house, was captured by Lieutenant Hill, of Her Majesty’s ship Saracen, having merchandise on board adapted for the slave trading factories, and having a direct destination to one of these. The vessel was condemned at Sierra Leone, but no proceedings have been taken in the Vice-admiralty Court in England by Lieutenant Hill, to recover the penalties incurred by this breach of the law. The notoriety of this vessel at all the factories on the coast of Africa had its weight in the tribunal where she was ultimately condemned for aiding and abetting the slave trade. In no respect was the evidence against this vessel stronger than that against the Cape Coast merchant, yet that vessel was condemned by the authorities at Sierra Leone, and the merchant is defended by those at Cape Coast. The Augusta, a notorious slaver, had only been captured and sent to England a few months before under the name of the Gollupchik, and under Russian colours, and she was found again on the coast, under the British flag, the property of London merchants. The Spanish slave trader, who was captain of the Gollupchik, when captured by the Saracen, and sent to England was subsequently taken near Whydah by Commodore Tucker of the Wolverine, while I was passenger on board that vessel, in another slaver called the Liberal; and from this man I learned particulars entirely corroborative of the documentary evidence found on board the Augusta. The recent relinquishment of the slave trade on the part of Don Theodore Canot at his slave factory at New Sesters, one of the principal slave dealers on the Kroo Coast, led to the giving up of his books and papers to Lieutenant Segrim, of Her Majesty’s ship Termagant, with whom he entered into arrangements for renouncing his unlawful trade; and, on examining these books on board of Her Majesty’s ship Wolverine, I found that a London house had long been in the habit of supplying stores and merchandise to his slave factory from their vessels on the coast. On the 4th of December, 1839, there is an entry of the arrival at his factory, for the purposes of trade, of the English brig Enterprise.

“1st January, 1840. There is an entry of the arrival of an English brig ‘Corcyra,’ belonging to another house in London, for the purposes of trade, and of having purchased of him 50 guns, 100 cutlasses, 100 large kettles, and 100 bars of irons.

“13th May, 1840. There is an entry of the re-appearance of the captain of the ‘Enterprise,’ at his factory, and having purchased from him 83 cruces of rice, or about 2,000lbs. weight, for which he paid 63 dollars, and 84 dollars for 21 guns.

“1st July, 1840. There is an entry of the arrival of the English schooner ‘Gil Blas,’ of London, and of having purchased two pieces of cloth, eight bars of tobacco, and one gallon of rum.

“On the 5th of December, 1840, Don Theodore Canot placed himself under the protection of the British flag, renounced his traffic, and gave up 104 slaves to Lieutenant Segrim.

“Lieutenant Hill, of Her Majesty’s ship ‘Saracen,’ on the 14th January, 1839, visited the British vessel ‘Medora,’ and was informed by the master that he had just disposed at the Gallinas of 10,000 dollars’ worth of goods to the factories there.

“Lieutenant Segrim, of the ‘Termagant,’ recently boarded the British merchant vessel ‘The Guinea Man,’ and the master admitted having just sold 500l. worth of goods to the slave trade factories at the Gallinas.

“A British trader, a man of colour, who has an establishment at Accra, has one likewise at Little Popoe, where he is known to dabble in this trade.

“This man was an agent of a mercantile house in London; and information reached me of his having embarked for Popoe some time ago, in the neighbourhood of St. Paul’s, a number of slaves on board a British vessel then under discharge. On visiting this part of the coast in Her Majesty’s ship ‘Wolverine,’ on my way to Princes’ Island, we found at Great Popoe a British subject of colour holding a factory, from which Captain Tucker had information he had lately shipped a cargo of slaves. While at anchor off the shore, Captain Tucker addressed a letter to him on the subject, informing him of the report he had heard, and giving him to understand that, on any repetition of his illegal proceedings, he would destroy his factory and carry himself to Sierra Leone. He returned a submissive, and I must add a very proper answer, not denying the transaction alluded to, but promising faithfully in future to abstain from exporting slaves.

“I have noticed these circumstances, though not apparently bearing on the subject of this part of my Report, namely, the resources, trade, and government of our settlements on the Gold Coast, and the influence of the latter on the adjoining districts, in order to show the necessity there is for a new enactment to prevent the facilities that are now afforded by our commerce from supplying the slave trade factories with these commodities which are indispensable to the slave traders. It is evident that those factories are supplied with goods by British traders, and especially by London merchants, to a very great extent.” ...

London, 31st July, 1841.

(signed) R. R. Madden.

COPY OF A LETTER
FROM
MESSRS. ZULUETA & CO. TO LORD VISCOUNT SANDON.

My Lord, London, 25 April, 1842.

A letter has been addressed to us under date of the 15th inst., by Mr. R. R. Gibbons, sending to us, at your Lordship’s desire, a copy of Dr. Madden’s Report on the Gold Coast of Africa, and its dependencies, and stating that this is done in consideration of “our being personally interested therein, but that we are to consider it as entirely confidential.”

In common with all other merchants in this city, we may of course be said to possess more or less of a professional interest in all matters which relate to commerce.

As having occasionally executed shipping orders for ports in the coast of Africa, on foreign account, of lawful merchandise, lawfully, and therefore publicly cleared at Her Majesty’s Customs, in lawful vessels, and as far as we, as mere shipping agents, could be supposed or expected to know, to the best of our knowledge, for no unlawful purpose, without any other interest or emolument in the operation antecedent or subsequent to the shipment than that of the simple and regular commission usually charged in, or legitimately connected with the invoice, and possessing no control, direct or indirect, over either vessels or goods, from the moment they left the shores of Great Britain, we may perhaps be supposed to feel a more direct interest in whatsoever throws light on the subject of trade with ports with which, in the course of our mercantile career, we may have had general business transactions, although they have not been either extensive or frequent.

Still more as shippers, in the form and capacity just described, and in no other, of a cargo consisting not only of legal, but even unsuspected merchandise on board the English schooner Augusta, Captain Jennings, the Report of Dr. Madden, as a document in which the capture of that vessel is alluded to, may also be supposed to form an interesting piece of information, whatever its merits may be in other respects.

Such is the nature and the extent of the interest which we acknowledge to possess in the Report of Dr. Madden, neither more nor less; and we submit that, in describing it as personal, a supposition is advanced which, considering the nature of that Report, we have reason to deem unfavourable to our characters, which the facts will not justify, and which we may say, even appearances will not warrant.

The Report brings together a number of transactions, not one of which have we even the remotest knowledge until the perusal of it, with the sole exception of the case of the Augusta. Now, as when looking at them together as a whole, and in conjunction with the other facts, most probably equally unknown to us, which in the course of the investigation now carried on before the Committee may be brought forward, there is no telling to what extent the association of our name with the matters of the Report may be carried, we have thought it right to explain to your Lordship what kind of interest we have no objection to be supposed to possess in the perusal of Dr. Madden’s Report, or in the inquiry now before the Committee. Beyond casual shipments in the manner described, and the acceptance of credits opened at our establishments by parties abroad, in behalf of parties resident in that coast, we have not even one single correspondent, or have we even consigned or sold, or in fact transacted any business whatsoever, or had any intercourse with individuals resident in those parts. We possess no interest in the trade with them, and even the agency for buying and shipping, which now and then we have had, is so insignificant, that we look with the most perfect indifference, as may easily be believed by any one who knows any thing of our business, as to any future legislation which may be the result of the present Parliamentary inquiry, or, indeed, as to any construction which may be put upon that now in existence. It is not, therefore, with the view of in any degree influencing the deliberations of the Committee, or of offering any remark on the facts or on the opinions contained in Dr. Madden’s Report, that we address your Lordship. Let the result of the labours of the Committee be what they may, and let the merits or the influence of Dr. Madden’s Report be what it may, whatever legislation may emanate from these proceedings, as a matter of business, it is of no moment to us, and therefore it is not our intention to throw the weight of a feather in the balance. Our sole object is to place our position in its true light; and the simple fact of our possessing no interest whatever, either personal or otherwise, in any branch of trade with the coast of Africa, much less with that lamentable branch of it which, much before the law was carried to even its present extent, our firm has shunned in all its branches and ramifications during an existence in business of more than seventy years, independent of the consideration of its illegality, without partaking in many of the views entertained by others concerning it, but from the principle of not wishing to derive profit or advantage from the sufferings of humanity, whether avoidable or unavoidable.

We have, &c.

(signed) Zulueta & Co.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Select Committee on West Coast of Africa.
R. R. Gibbons, Esq. to Messrs. Zulueta & Co.

Gentlemen, July 13th, 1842.

I am desired by Lord Sandon, the chairman of this committee, to forward to you copies of evidence taken before them, in which your house is mentioned; and I am to acquaint you that if you are desirous of making any statement thereon, either personally or by letter, the committee will be ready to receive the same.

I have, &c.

(signed) R. R. Gibbons.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN BEFORE THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Veneris, 10º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Lord Viscount Courtenay.
Lord Viscount Ebrington.
Mr. Evans.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. Hamilton.
Mr. Metcalf.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. W. Patten.
Mr. Stuart Wortley.

Lord Viscount Sandon in the chair.

Henry William Macaulay, Esq. called in; and further examined.

5003. Chairman.] Will you state what has been your connexion and acquaintance with the coast of Africa?—I went out to Sierra Leone first in the early part of the year 1830 as a merchant, and at the latter end of the year 1831 I was appointed one of the judges in the court of Mixed Commission; I then left business and devoted myself entirely to the business of the court; and I ceased to act as a judge on the 31st of December, 1839.

5004. Since what time have you been at home?—I remained on the coast a short time to recover my health. I was too unwell to move for some months, and then went to the Island of Ascension, from which I came home in the latter end of the year 1840.

5005. Will you state what the court of mixed commission consists of?—The Portuguese court consists of a British commissary judge and a Portuguese commissary judge, who have to decide upon every Portuguese case; in case of any difference of opinion between the two principal judges, the British commissioner of arbitration and the Portuguese commissioner of arbitration draw lots as to which of the two the case is to be referred to for final decision. In the same way, in the Spanish court, the British commissary judge meets the Spanish commissary judge, and in case of difference of opinion, the case is left to either the British or Spanish commissioner of arbitration, as the lot may determine.

5006. Are there any judges for other nations?—The courts at Sierra Leone are the Portuguese court, the Spanish court, the Brazilian court, and the Dutch court; but no court during my time has been perfect in the number of its judges except the Brazilian court.

5007. You mean by perfect, that the British judge has had to sit alone?—The treaties require that after a certain time, in the absence of any foreign judge, the British commissioner of arbitration shall act as the foreign commissary judge.

5008. Who is the British commissioner of arbitration; is he a distinct person from the British commissary judge?—Yes; the British court is always perfect.

5009. What does it consist of?—It consists of the British commissary judge and the British commissioner of arbitration; and the treaties point out how any vacancy, either by death or absence, is to be supplied; the governor in the first instance, attends for the absent judge, whoever he may be, and after him, the chief justice, and then the colonial secretary. It is left to those three officers; but I presume that if those three should all be ill, or their places be vacant by death, the office would then descend to the person next in seniority in the colonial government there; but we never went lower than the colonial secretary. The Brazilian court has been the only one perfect, and the British commissioner of arbitration has always sat in my time for the Portuguese and Spanish commissary judges. No case at all has occurred in the Dutch court.

5010. In case a vessel taken under the colours of any other nation were brought into Sierra Leone, how would that case be decided?—There are other treaties than those I have mentioned. A French case is sent to the French authorities under the French treaty, and in the treaties with all other nations that have treaties on the model of the French treaty, the vessels are handed over to their own judicial authorities.

5011. Within Sierra Leone?—The treaty points out where they are to be taken; if a French vessel is taken, it is sent to Goree.

5012. Then no vessels are brought in for adjudication to Sierra Leone but Dutch and Portuguese, and Spanish and Brazilian vessels?—Not for adjudication by the mixed commission; but there is the vice-admiralty court, which under the late act relating to Portugal, for the suppression of the slave trade, takes cognizance of vessels under that flag which are captured; and may take cognizance of any vessels under any flag that are captured in British waters, wherever they are taken, whether at Sierra Leone, or the Gambia, or any British settlement on the coast, and that has been rather frequent of late.

5013. The mixed commission court has jurisdiction over all cases which are brought within the limits of the treaty with Portugal, and the Vice-Admiralty Court in the Portuguese cases, over which we have assumed jurisdiction by Act of Parliament, that is to say, all cases of vessels captured south of the Line?—Yes; it is optional still for the captor to prosecute a Portuguese vessel, captured under the Act of Parliament, before the admiralty court, if he chooses, instead of bringing her before the mixed commission court, but the process is so much more summary with us, and the expense so much less, that that option is seldom taken.

5014. Will you proceed to explain what is the process which is pursued when a slaver is brought into Sierra Leone for adjudication?—Whenever a vessel appears in the harbour under any of the flags of which we can take cognizance, the marshal of the court goes on board, and he receives from the prizemaster who is on board an account of the capture, which he fills into a printed form, and he sends one of those printed forms to each of the judges, and one to the governor, immediately; in fact, generally before the vessel comes to anchor, and then the court is made aware of the vessel being in the harbour, and is prepared to make arrangements for the landing of the slaves, if there are any, generally the morning after its arrival, if it comes in the evening, or if it comes in early in the morning, the same day. The proctor for the captor brings the papers of the vessel before the court, and they are always accompanied by a declaration of the captor. All the forms of the court are very much the same as those of the Admiralty Court in England. If there are slaves, the proctor petitions for the admission of the vessel into court, and generally accompanies that by a petition to land the slaves; and since I have been there, in every case of inquiry the slaves were landed and handed over to the superintendent of the African department pending the investigation, and held in their character of slaves during the time that the vessel was passing through the court. The proctor then produces his witnesses, and they are examined upon printed interrogatories, which have been used ever since the court was formed. These questions are framed with a view to make out a case, and they always do prove slave dealing wherever it has existed, if the witness answers truly; and in an ordinary case, where slaves are on board, no defence is ever attempted, it is out of the question. Then as soon as the evidence is given, generally by the captain and one of the officers of the captured vessel, the proctor prays for publication; and when the monition which issues in the first instance, calling upon any persons to bring forward a claim if they have any against the capture, or to show cause why the vessel should not be condemned, is returned, trial is prayed for, and it takes place on an early day after arrival of the vessel; in an undefended case, and where the capture has been made properly by the man-of-war, the vessel is condemned, the slaves are emancipated at the same time; a commission of appraisement and sale issues, which directs the particular officer of the court who has the duty of conducting the auctions to expose both the vessel and the goods, and any thing that may be on board, to public auction, after due notice given. Those things are then sold, and the proceeds are divided equally between the British Government and the foreign government, and the proceeds are then paid into the commissariat, which settles with the Government at home, and they pay the money, or set it off against any claim they may have against the foreign government; but the foreign government has a claim to one-half the proceeds of the vessels and cargoes.

5015. Is there any large proportion of cases in which condemnation does not follow, and under what circumstances principally has condemnation not been the consequence?—There have been vessels restored for being seized, for instance, Portuguese vessels from the southward of the Line, contrary to treaty. In two cases there were vessels restored with upwards of 8,000l. damages against the captors in each case, making 16,000l.; and there was again one case of the Pepita, which I remember, when it was proved that the slaves had been embarked under circumstances that would not justify condemnation under the treaty; she was restored with damages. There have been several cases under the equipment article since the new slave treaty came into force, where vessels have been restored because the equipment was not deemed sufficient to warrant condemnation. There have been also vessels taken on the suspicion that black persons on board were slaves, who have been proved to be domestics, and not bought for the purpose of the traffic. There have been a variety of condemnations; but in any case where the treaty would not warrant condemnation, the vessel has been restored; and where the treaty required it, restored with damages.

5016. Have there been a considerable number of restorations; can you state, from statistics, the number?—I have statistics for two years; from the 1st of January to the 31st of December 1838, one vessel only was liberated.

5017. What number were condemned?—Forty-one; during the year 1839 there were two liberated, and 45 condemned; and in addition to those, there was a very large number of American vessels which were seized, with American papers on board, and which I refused to receive into court at all; there were some in 1838, and there was a large number in 1839.

5018. Can you state the number?—I think the number was 13; but the reports of the whole of those cases are in the Parliamentary Papers.

5019. Were they bonâ fide American?—I believe not American, in any one case, but sailing under the American flag, and with American papers, supplied to them by American authority.

5020. Where?—Almost entirely, I think, without one exception, at Havannah.

5021. Supplied by the American consul?—Yes; but I considered that as they sailed with those American papers, however wrongfully they might have been given by the American authority, we had no right to interfere with them.

5022. Mr. Forster.] Have not some vessels belonging to the States been condemned?—Yes; since my time.

5023. You were not a party to the condemnation?—I was not.

5024. Mr. W. Patten.] But in those cases which you mention, you had not the slightest doubt in the world that they would have been condemned if they had not American papers on board?—Certainly they would, with the exception of one case, which seemed to be a sort of experimental seizure: it was known that almost every vessel on the coast under the American flag, at that time was a Spanish vessel in disguise; and this vessel seems to have been seized in the hope that the captain and officers might be able to prove, by some evidence found on board, that she was really Spanish; but though we had access to the papers, we found nothing that would have condemned her if she had been prosecuted in the court; there was a deficiency of papers on board; the captain, perhaps had either destroyed them or concealed them, and we could not get at the proof that would have enabled us to condemn her as being a Spanish vessel; but none of the cases I speak of were prosecuted; I would not allow them to be libelled in court.

5025. So that those cases do not appear upon the records of the court?—No; but I took the opportunity of examining the papers, and sending home all the particulars to the Foreign-office, and the papers are copied in the Parliamentary Returns.

5026. Mr. Forster.] Will those seizures be matter of complaint on the part of the owners?—I do not know that any of those seizures have been matter of complaint; some of the seizures made subsequently have been.

5027. Seizures of vessels belonging to the United States?—Yes; but none of those that came before me have been made matter of complaint.

5028. Are you aware that there are several cases of condemnation that have been the subject of remonstrance with the British Government by the United States?—I believe the whole of them are.

5029. Chairman.] You have not heard that they complain of vessels being brought in for condemnation to Sierra Leone which you did not allow to be libelled in court?—No, except as regards the general right which was exercised. There has been no complaint with respect to a particular vessel, so far as I know; but complaints have been made of the right which was exercised by cruizers on the coast to board any American vessel and search it.

5030. Mr. Aldam.] Has the practice of the court been changed since your time?—Yes, it was changed the day that I left; there was an American vessel waiting at Sierra Leone for adjudication the day I left, and the officer suspecting, that if presented to me, I should refuse her in the same way as I had done the others, detained her till I left, and she was condemned by my successor under orders from Lord Palmerston.

5031. Then the orders from Lord Palmerston changed the practice of the court?—Yes.

5032. Do you know the nature of those orders?—The orders appear in the printed correspondence.

5033. Mr. W. Patten.] Can you state briefly the nature of the orders?—His Lordship stated that the Queen’s advocate was of opinion that the court was justified in making use of information obtained by the search of vessels under the American flag. The court had decided, that having no right to search vessels sailing as American, and recognised as American by American authorities, they could not make use of any information which they obtained by unauthorised and illegal acts, and Lord Palmerston considered that they had a right.

5034. Chairman.] You held that the papers protected the vessel?—I did.

5035. Mr. Forster.] Then it is those condemnations which are appealed against at present by the American government?—I have not seen any appeal of the American government except against the general right exercised by the British cruizers.

5036. The complaint is, of seizing vessels as connected with the slave trade, which, from their papers, ought not to have been subject to that suspicion?—I am not aware of any appeal in any case of that kind.

5037. Mr. Aldam.] Have any vessels with strictly American papers been condemned?—You can hardly call them strictly American papers where the papers have been applied for, and given through fraud. The American authorities at the Havannah who gave them, knew very well that the vessel had no more claim to be styled an American vessel than a Dutch vessel.

5038. Chairman.] But as far as the documents themselves showed, those vessels were American?—Yes, they had an American register, just in the same form as any vessel sailing from New York, or Baltimore; indeed it was a copy of the same document.

5039. What indication was there in other papers taken, to lead you to know that the property was not bonâ fide American?—It appeared, from the very strict overhauling these vessels received from the cruizers, that in many of those cases there were papers on board showing that the man who appeared as the American captain was only a passenger, and that the 30 Spanish passengers who took out passengers’ licences at Havannah were the real crew; and there were also instructions, found on board, to the pretended captain, what he was to answer to the cruizers when they boarded him. The whole thing was a complete fraud without any doubt whatever. There were many of those cases where it was quite plain that the vessels were only Spaniards in disguise; that they only kept the American flag until their cargo was ready. In some cases the vessels that were boarded one day by the cruizers under the American flag, were boarded two or three days afterwards with the Portuguese or Spanish flag hoisted, and full of slaves.

5040. And condemned?—Yes.

5041. What was the object of hoisting the Spanish or Portuguese flag?—If the vessels had been captured by a British cruizer with the American flag hoisted, he would have carried them into America; and if he did carry them into America, every man on board would have been hung as a pirate.

5042. Had he authority to do so?—It was done; the American authorities did not complain of it.

5043. Mr. W. Patten.] Were they hung in that case?—No, there were no slaves on board.

5044. Mr. Aldam.] Every ship of war has a right to capture a pirate?—Yes.

5045. The law of the United States recognizes slavery as piracy?—Yes, but it is not piracy by the law of nations, and indeed our own courts have decided most positively on that point, that the slave trade is not piracy by the law of nations; that it can only be punished by the municipal law of the particular country to which the vessel belongs.

5046. Mr. Forster.] The class of condemnations to which you have alluded are different from the cases which have taken place since you left, under the direction of Lord Palmerston?—No condemnations took place before the 1st of January, 1840; there were vessels condemned by me that were captured under the American flag, and with American papers, but they were taken in British waters, where British ships had a right to visit and search the vessel, and the captor might make use of any information he obtained in the search: when apparent American vessels were boarded on the high seas, we deemed that the captor had not that authority.

5047. Chairman.] What do you consider British waters on the coast of Africa; what would you for instance, on the Gold Coast, consider British waters?—The waters of a nation are those within gun-shot of the shore; generally reckoned three miles; it is the same all over the world.

5048. With regard to the Gold Coast, you are aware that our settlements consist of several forts; do you consider the whole line of coast, from end to end, along which our forts are planted, to be British water?—No, for there are foreign forts there mixed with ours; but in every case we have the sovereignty over three miles of the sea from our own possession, wherever it may be, and the only ports to which a vessel could go, have forts attached to them; a vessel lying at Accra, or lying at Cape Coast, would be within three miles of the fort.

5049. If she was sailing along the coast, should you consider her to be in British waters?—Where an indefinite authority is exercised along a line of coast, without any real right, I do not consider those British waters.

5050. You would consider as British waters only those which were a certain distance from the fort?—Yes; the difficulty occurred in the case of the Jack Wilding, one of the richest prizes that was made during the year 1839; she was seized lying in British Accra roadstead, and she was under the American flag; she was brought up to Sierra Leone, and defended, on the ground that, though the vessel was in British waters, she was within three miles of the Dutch fort, but we considered that that could not make any difference, that we could not allow slave trading within three miles of any acknowledged British fort, and we condemned the vessel.

5051. Have you seen practical evil arise from the mixed commission being fixed at Sierra Leone?—No, certainly not.

5052. Not as to the health of the slaves in the length of the voyage from the place of seizure to the place of condemnation?—I believe that there is a great misapprehension on this subject, which would be corrected by a mere reference to the statistics of the trade; there seems to be an impression that a very great majority of the cases of capture are made to the eastward of Cape Palmas, and in the bights, but a large number have been taken for many years past, and might always have been taken, to the westward of Cape Palmas, and in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone.

5053. Is there any statement of the length of voyage of each vessel from the time of its seizure to the time of its condemnation?—I do not think there is any table drawn out; but in the printed reports the times and places of capture are stated, which comes to the same thing; because, where the vessels are captured in the immediate neighbourhood of Sierra Leone, the voyage is very short, and in going through the reports the number of days can be calculated. In the detailed reports which are given of each case, the date of the capture is always mentioned, and the date of arrival at Sierra Leone. In some cases the vessels are delayed after capture, and you could not get an exact account; but in most cases the difference between the date of capture and the date of arrival would be the length of voyage.

5054. Mr. Forster.] Has not the great bulk of the seizures been made in the bights and to the eastward of Cape Palmas?—Not a very large majority during the last year, and before that a large portion were made to the westward of Cape Palmas; and if that part of the coast had had the number of cruizers that it ought to have had, there would have been a much larger number of captures made there.

5055. Chairman.] You think that the slave trade has gone on with greater intensity to the westward of Cape Palmas?—With great intensity in the Gallinas, which was unnoticed for some years; and, indeed, that part of the coast was utterly neglected. The admiral and commanding officers seemed to fancy that the slave trade could only be carried on in the bights, but a great deal of slave trade was carried on to the westward.

5056. Where?—In Gallinas, principally, New Sesters, Sherboro’; those are the principal ports in that part; there are others smaller.

5057. For all those ports, of course, Sierra Leone you consider to be the most advantageous position?—Certainly.

5058. Mr. Forster.] But in speaking of the amount of slave trade carried on at those places which you have just named, do you speak of those in comparison with the bights, and also with the Spanish and Portuguese settlements to the south of the Line?—I speak of the amount of captures that have been made there. The south was left very nearly in the same state in which the north was. The cruizing of the squadron was almost entirely confined to the bights.

5059. To the south of the Line they could not cruize, could they?—Yes, they could cruize near the Portuguese settlements, for the court practically got over the article in the treaty under which captures were forbidden to the southward of the Line, by establishing, which they did in 1838, the principle, that the national character of any vessel was to be taken from the residence of the owner, the place where he carried on his mercantile business, and also from the course of trade in which the vessel was engaged; and as there could be no foreign Portuguese slave trade, for Portugal has no colonies to supply with slaves, we were sure to make the vessel either Brazilian or Spanish. She was captured under Portuguese colours, and with Portuguese papers, but the treaty had given us a right to search her any where, either north or south; it had not given us the right to detain her south of the Line, if she was bonâ fide Portuguese; but if captured as a Portuguese vessel under the Portuguese flag, and with Portuguese papers, she was sent up to Sierra Leone, and was almost certain to be condemned either as a Brazilian or a Spaniard.

5060. That decision was come to in 1838?—Yes.

5061. Before that time the impression had prevailed that the slave trade from the Portuguese settlements was protected?—There was no seizure to the south of the Line to render a decision necessary; vessels were seized immediately close to the Line, in several cases, and it was never thought of; that was before the Portuguese flag was so much used, and the cause of the Portuguese flag being so much used by slavers, was the Spanish treaty having given the right to seize, on the ground of equipment; that did not take place till 1836. I was at home in that year, and on my return in December 1837, I found that almost every vessel on the coast was sailing under Portuguese colours, and then we met this new circumstance by an alteration in the interpretation of the treaty.

5062. Mr. Aldam.] If the owner had been a bonâ fide Portuguese, would the vessel have been still condemned?—If the owner had been a Portuguese, resident in Havannah, we should have treated the vessel as a Spanish vessel; and if at Rio Janeiro, we should have treated it as a Brazilian vessel.

5063. But in the case of a Portuguese merchant resident in a Portuguese possession, and carrying on his business there?—We should have looked at the course of trade in which the vessel was engaged, and the Portuguese having no colonies would not require slaves.

5064. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider the Spanish and Portuguese settlements to the south of the Line the places at which the slave trade will be last overcome?—The part of the coast at which the slave trade is carried on depends entirely on the cruizers; you may knock up the slave trade on any part of the coast you please, if the cruizing is properly conducted. The largest slave trade on the coast was the slave trade at the Gallinas; by the system of blockade that Captain Denman adopted there, he completely destroyed it.

5065. That blockade must be continued to make it permanent in its results?—Yes; and he never went away for water or provisions, without leaving a vessel to supply his place. He could always regulate the time that he should remain, knowing of course, to a day, how long his water and provisions would last him.

5066. But to render that remedy effectual and permanent, vessels of war must continue at the Gallinas?—Yes; but if you blockade the rivers, where the slave trade has been carried on for a number of years, and completely shut up the slave trade for a year or two, you destroy the system of slave trade in that part.

5067. Chairman.] You think the machinery cannot be re-established in that part?—It may be re-established, but in the meantime there is no mart for the slaves; they are brought down and lodged in the barracoons, and the feeding of the slaves completely ruins the slave owner.

5068. Mr. Forster.] What is there to prevent the system being resumed there unless you continue the blockade of the place?—There is nothing.

5069. Then it is upon the blockade of the settlements that the success of the cruizers depends, and not upon the destruction of the barracoons?—Exactly; by blockade, I do not mean shutting out legitimate trade, but preventing any vessel fitted for the slave trade going in, and preventing any vessel with slaves coming out.

5070. Chairman.] Do you believe that if you blockade a port, materially interfering with the slave trade for a considerable period, you obstruct it even for some time afterwards?—I think you do; and I think the people are so accustomed to the goods which they procure from slave dealers that they will get them if they can by other means.

5071. Then you think, that if you can blockade for a certain time, and put an end to the power of procuring what the natives desire by the slave trade, that their taste will have to be gratified by lawful traffic, and that that will make it less necessary for them afterwards to have recourse to the slave trade?—Certainly.

5072. Mr. Forster.] By such destruction as took place in the case of Gallinas, do you not interfere with the course of the legitimate trade, as well as with the course of the slave trade?—I am not speaking of the destruction of a settlement.

5073. Had not the operations of Captain Denman the effect of destroying the stores, and in fact the whole settlement?—He destroyed the barracoons; but no one ever kept in barracoons any thing but slaves.

5074. Was not also a considerable property in merchandize destroyed?—Yes, so it appears by the Parliamentary papers. At that time there was no trade whatever carried on at Gallinas except in slaves; there was no legitimate trade at all, I believe.

5075. Do you mean that there was no legitimate trade carried on at the Gallinas previous to the destruction of that place by Captain Denman?—I believe, none whatever; there was certainly none with its nearest large port, which was Sierra Leone; the only trade carried on between the two places was of a very questionable character.

5076. Were not Hamburg vessels and other foreign vessels constantly in the habit of visiting Gallinas for the purpose of legitimate trade previous to the destruction of the settlement?—I am not aware that they did.

5077. I thought you told the Committee in a late answer, that there was no legitimate trade carried on there?—From Sierra Leone; but whether Hamburg vessels went direct to Gallinas, I do not know; from Sierra Leone, I do not believe that any legitimate trade was carried on with the Gallinas.

5078. What opportunities had you at Sierra Leone of knowing the course of trade to Gallinas?—I was in Sierra Leone, where there were a large number of small coasting vessels employed, and those who brought back produce did not go to Gallinas for it.

5079. But had you any opportunity of knowing the nature and extent of the legitimate trade there by foreign vessels, independently of Sierra Leone?—No; but I have always understood, (it is only from hearsay I mention this,) from the men-of-war on the coast, that every vessel they have found lying in the harbour there, has been engaged in the slave trade in some way or other, as American vessels bringing over goods from the Havannah for the supply of factories, or bringing out equipments to be carried away by slavers when they were full.

5080. You have stated that previously to the destruction of Gallinas by Captain Denman, no trade had been carried on between the Gallinas and Sierra Leone, except such as was of a very questionable nature?—I have.

5081. Was that questionable trade to a considerable extent?—No, not with Sierra Leone; but trading vessels that came along the coast have called at Sierra Leone, and gone down the coast afterwards, and probably put into Gallinas amongst other ports; but directly with Sierra Leone the trade was very little indeed.

5082. Up to what period did this questionable trade between Sierra Leone and Gallinas continue?—It continued as long as I was connected with the colony, that is, to the 31st of December, 1839; but we always looked with suspicion upon any merchant there that was connected with that place.

5083. Is it within your knowledge that up to that time the slave dealers, by themselves, or their agents, were in the habit of frequenting Sierra Leone, and making purchases there for the supply of Gallinas?—They generally made their purchases, I believe, through some merchant resident at Sierra Leone; one in particular; they generally had one merchant at a time, I believe, who was employed by them.

5084. Chairman.] Making purchases of prize goods?—Yes, and sometimes of vessels; a vessel that might be put up to auction there he would bid for, and have it sent down to Gallinas; and I have no doubt goods also.

5085. Was he a white merchant, or a black, who was so employed?—He was a white merchant, an English merchant.

5086. Who was he?—The name is mentioned in the Parliamentary Papers, as being connected with the purchase of a slave vessel, Mr. Kidd; and it is mentioned in connection with that of Mr. Zulueta, of London.

5087. Can you refer to the passage?—It appears at the 38th page of the class (B.) of the papers on the subject of the slave trade, presented to Parliament 1839-40. Zulueta, the gentleman in London to whom the vessel was sent, and who sold her again to her former Spanish owner, is a name well known on the coast in connexion with the slave trade; any man ought to have been careful of being connected with such a person as that. I have seen the same vessels over and over again in the slave trade; you can detect them when you get accustomed to the form and build of the vessels.

5088. Mr. Forster.] Were not those vessels sold to the best bidder?—Yes.

5089. Do not you think that the fault was with those who sold them originally, and not those who bought them?—No; you are not bound to suppose that a man will make a bad use of that which he purchases.

5090. Mr. W. Patten.] Are those vessels generally bought by the same person?—Mr. Kidd purchased vessels only during the latter part of the time I was there, for he was not in the colony when I first went there; he was looked upon as the person employed by the Gallinas slave dealers to transact their business at Sierra Leone.

5091. Chairman.] To purchase vessels and goods?—Yes.

5092. Mr. W. Patten.] Is Mr. Kidd the person you alluded to just now, who generally purchased the vessels at auction?—No, they were generally purchased by various people; he purchased a few of them.

5093. Mr. Forster.] Would Mr. Zulueta, if he had entered the auction-room, have been at liberty to bid for the purchase of that vessel?—Certainly; by the treaty it is required that the goods seized shall be exposed to public auction for the benefit of the two governments.

5094. How do you make it out to be criminal in Mr. Kidd to do that which it was innocent for the auctioneer on the part of the British Government to do?—The auctioneer is required to do it by his duty, he is appointed for that purpose under the Act of Parliament; he sells to any body who will purchase; of course, the responsibility of the employment of the purchase rests with the purchaser.

5095. Then it is the fault of the Government, not of the auctioneer?—It is not the fault of the auctioneer; nor do I consider it any fault of the British Government; it is no fault to purchase goods, but to use them unlawfully is wrong; it is the use which he makes of the vessel after purchasing it that is wrong.

5096. How could it be criminal in Mr. Kidd to sell the vessel to Mr. Zulueta when you see no fault in the British Government doing the same thing?—The British Government is obliged to do it under the treaty; there is no compulsion on Mr. Kidd to sell his vessel to a slave dealer, he may sell it to any body.

5097. According to that doctrine, the British Government is obliged to act criminally?—No, certainly not; I do not think it follows. The treaty requires that goods and vessels shall be exposed at auction; the responsibility of the employment of those goods or vessels which are sold, I think, rests with the purchaser; he may employ them lawfully, and I have purchased a vessel at auction myself, in former days, when I was engaged in business; but if I had taken that vessel and sold her to a slave dealer, I should think that I did wrong.

5098. But you admit that the public auctioneer would have sold the same vessel to the same party whom Mr. Kidd sold her to?—Certainly.

5099. Chairman.] You meant to say that the auctioneer had no choice to whom he should sell her, and Mr. Kidd had?—The auctioneer had no choice; the Act is imperative, and requires him to sell to the highest bidder, for the benefit of the two governments.

5100. Mr. Aldam.] Did Mr. Kidd sell his vessel to a slave dealer or to a Spanish house, who subsequently sold it to a slave dealer?—It appears in some of the records that in some cases he sold vessels direct to the slave dealers.

5101 Are those vessels worth more to a slave dealer than if used for any other purpose?—Certainly.

5102. How then is it possible to prevent the ships being applied to that purpose for which they are worth more than for any other?—Spanish ships are prevented from being used for the trade by being cut up when they are condemned.

5103. Mr. Evans.] But you have no power of doing so with the Portuguese ships?—No.

5104. Mr. Aldam.] Those vessels, from their small size, are not worth much for other trades?—There are some trades that they are adapted for, the fruit trade for instance, and they are employed in the smuggling of opium and such trades as those; they are not capable of carrying large burdens.

5105. In all cases it will answer the purpose of the merchant to give a larger price for those ships to be employed in the slave trade than for any other purpose?—Yes, probably.

5106. Viscount Ebrington.] Have you ever considered what the result would be of the British Government buying those ships in?—It would be impossible to buy them all in.

5107. All that are not liable to be broken up?—No. During last year, for instance, the number condemned was so large, that the Government, if they had bought them, could not have found a use for them.

5108. Mr. Forster.] Have you any doubt that those vessels have been sometimes knocked down by the auctioneer to agents of the slave traders on the coast?—It may have been so, and I have no doubt it has; I do not recollect a case at present, but I would have insisted upon it, as head of the court, that it should have been knocked down to any one who made the highest bid.

5109. It is your opinion also, that the prize goods have been frequently sold in the like manner?—Some portion of them, but certainly not the bulk of them.

5110. Was there any thing to prevent the whole of them being sold to the slave dealers, or the agent of the slave dealers?—Nothing whatever.

5111. Had you opportunities of observing, up to the time you left Sierra Leone, whether the agents of the slave dealers on the neighbouring coast frequently appeared in the market of Sierra Leone as purchasers of goods or vessels?—Not often; if the goods came into their hands it was through a third person generally. I have heard of Spaniards going down, and bidding for the vessels, but it was not an ordinary occurrence.

5112. Then you are of opinion that usually slave dealers at Gallinas did not visit Sierra Leone for the purpose of making purchases of goods or vessels?—Not in their own persons, they may have done it through a third party; but, perhaps, it would shorten the questions to state that the greater portion of the goods sold at the auctions captured from vessels in the slave trade were purchased by liberated Africans, by the hawkers there, and they made the best use of them. That a certain portion of the goods so purchased at auctions may get into the hands of slave dealers afterwards, is very possible; but I am convinced, from the description of goods which are sold, which may be used in lawful trade, and from the different appearance of the whole colony since goods were sold so extensively, that the greater portion of them are consumed in the colony, and are made use of in the lawful trade, by liberated Africans in the neighbourhood. I consider that the colony has been very much benefited indeed by those sales; that the condition of the liberated Africans has been very much improved by them, as has been very evident from the great wealth that has been stirring among them; and the liberated Africans have now not only completely bought out the Maroons and settlers, who were the original settlers of the place, but are gradually driving out the white merchants; and I think it a very great advantage, for they are able to live much more cheaply than the white men can do; they carry on their business at one hundredth part of the expense, and turn their money over very much more quickly.

5113. Are any precautions taken by the authorities at Sierra Leone to prevent slave dealers obtaining goods at Sierra Leone, either by public auction or in any other manner?—Certainly not.

5114. Mr. W. Patten.] You have stated that there was an illicit trade going on between Sierra Leone and Gallinas; are there any other circumstances than those you have mentioned, that you can adduce in proof of that?—None; in the trade that has been just referred to, of Spaniards and Portuguese at Gallinas sending up to purchase goods at auctions, they have done so, and they have been sent down to them through a third party, but it is seldom they appear themselves.

5115. You do not, of your own knowledge, know what is the connection between Mr. Kidd and any individuals at Gallinas?—No.

5116. Nor of any other merchant at Sierra Leone?—No.

5117. Do you believe that they act as commission merchants to purchase goods?—Yes; I suppose on commission.

5118. Is there any trade carried on by any merchant on his own account with the Gallinas?—I should think that very likely too; but it is impossible to know, for after vessels have gone outside the Cape they may carry their goods any where: you do not know what becomes of them.

5119. Mr. Forster.] Do you think it would be desirable to impose any restriction upon legitimate trade to Gallinas?—I think not; I think no restriction upon trade should be imposed, even on the intercourse between the two places.

5120. Mr. W. Patten.] How would you distinguish the legitimate from the illegitimate trade?—You cannot distinguish it; and there I think the danger lies of attempting to interfere with intercourse.

5121. Mr. Forster.] And therefore, in attempting to check or impede the one, you would do more harm than good in repressing and discouraging the other?—I think it very probable; I think it would be quite impossible to draw the line.

5122. But supposing it to be possible, do you think it would be, in fact, desirable to take any measures which would have the effect of checking the progress of legitimate trade?—Certainly not.

5123. Were there any Hamburgh vessels condemned at Sierra Leone?—Not in my time.

5124. Mr. Hamilton.] Do you think that the establishing such a blockade on the coast as you have alluded to just now, would have the effect of interfering with legitimate trade?—No, not such a blockade as I alluded to; I think the natives are well aware of the design for which the cruizers are on the coast, they would consider their presence rather as a protection, than otherwise, to the legitimate trade.

5125. Mr. Forster.] Were not large quantities of tobacco and rum sold at Sierra Leone from the prize vessels conveyed there leeward for sale to the Sierra Leone merchants?—Yes; I believe there were several cargoes of Brazilian tobacco and of spirits sent down the coast: I believe, principally to Badagry and that neighbourhood.

5126. That tobacco was, of course, especially imported on the coast for the purpose of the slave trade?—It was taken out of slave vessels; therefore, of course, it was.

5127. When it arrived at Badagry, it would consequently be very acceptable to slave dealers there?—Yes; but they had to pay for it.

5128. Mr. W. Patten.] Did you find when you were at Sierra Leone that the price paid for goods at auctions exceeded or was below the price of goods imported in other ways?—The necessary effect of such large quantities of goods being thrown on the market, and compelled to be sold at any rate to the highest bidder, was of course to lower the price; and I consider that the very cheap rate at which the liberated Africans were able to procure those goods, which, in former times, they could only obtain at a high price, was what formed the advantage which they derived from those sales.

5129. How do you account for it, that the merchants at Sierra Leone do not themselves purchase those goods?—They have not the money; in fact, they have no money at all. There are only one or two men that have any money in the place; they are almost all men who receive their goods from houses in England; they are generally very much in debt to the persons who send goods to them; and the only parties who have money in the colony, with the exception of two gentlemen, are liberated Africans, and many of the latter have very large sums.

5130. Mr. Forster.] Has the trade at Sierra Leone not, in your opinion, been a successful trade for some years?—It has been a successful trade for the liberated Africans.

5131. The question applied to British traders?—I cannot say; I have not been engaged in trade myself during that time; but I should think that the English traders must have suffered by the goods which were thrown on the market from slave vessels, whilst they had goods which were purchased at a much dearer rate to dispose of, and had not the money to purchase the low-priced goods there. But one case I can mention, where a white merchant at Sierra Leone had the funds to go into the market and compete with the liberated Africans; he has made a great deal of money by it, and the more in consequence of his means being so superior to those of the Africans; but that was because he had money: the losses of the others were because they had none.

5132. You have spoken of the advantages to the black population from the sale of those goods, which have led them to become hawkers and pedlars in the neighbouring country; it is the fact that the natives of Africa are very much disposed to that species of employment in preference to agricultural labour?—It certainly is so at Sierra Leone.

5133. Then the advantages derived from the encouragement thus given to them to embark in that species of employment in preference to the fixed pursuits of agriculture may be questionable on that ground?—I think not; I think if the liberated African can get money and can educate his family well, and procure all that he wants by trade, it is just as well as if he procured it by agriculture.

5134. Have you found them practically carrying on any regular system of agriculture voluntarily?—Not for export: there have been some articles cultivated, but to no very great extent: ginger, and pepper, and cassada, but cultivation has not been carried to any great extent for export at Sierra Leone.

5135. How do you account for cultivation and improvement having made so little progress in Sierra Leone after all the efforts of the party in this country, and all the money which has been expended upon it?—I doubt the proposition contained in the question; I think that they have made progress.

5136. Planting and cultivation is carried on there to a great extent?—No, it is not; but the people have other means of procuring what they require.

5137. Have any means been taken, or if taken, have they been successful, for promoting any regular system of agriculture or planting in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone?—No, I think not, and I am very sorry for it; I think more might have been done in the way of premiums upon produce, and giving prizes for successful cultivation.

5138. In fact, has any thing been done in that way?—Nothing whatever, I believe, of late years. There was an agricultural society that existed many years before I went to the colony, which offered premiums, but the members of it died, and the scheme fell to the ground.

5139. The attempts of that society, in fact, were not successful?—No; it was before my time; I cannot speak positively to the efforts that were made; it is a great many years ago now.

5140. Can you distinguish the amount of captures to the south and north of the Line?—Yes; in 1838, 15 out of 30 vessels, either were captured, or took on board their slaves to the westward of Cape Palmas, or one-third of the vessels which were detained with full cargoes of slaves on board, or four out of seven, if we only look to the vessels detained in the West Indies. The whole, or very nearly, of the slave trade carried on in the north, or rather west of Cape Palmas, is for the supply of the island of Cuba, and generally on account of the Havannah merchants. In the following year, “of the 61 vessels which passed through the courts during the year 1839, three were captured in the West Indies, the remainder on this coast, eight to the southward of the Line, but none below the latitude of 4 deg. 58 min. south, and of 50 vessels captured north of the Line, 30 were met with to the eastward and 20 to the westward of Cape Palmas.”

5141. Mr. W. Patten.] Does not the return distinguish from what part of the coast those vessels came?—Yes; it goes into all the particulars of the places from which they came, and the places to which they went, and to which they took their cargoes; 18 of the whole number had slaves on board, 11 having shipped their slaves in parts to the eastward of Cape Palmas, and seven to the westward of the same point, and the river where they shipped them is mentioned.

5142. Mr. Forster.] Supposing that the time should arrive when the greatest number of prize vessels should be brought from the southward, would you in that case consider Sierra Leone to be the place best adapted for the mixed commission?—If that arose from the slave trade being permanently at an end in the north, I should say, that the commission should certainly follow the course of the slave trade.

5143. Mr. W. Patten.] From the position you held, had you any information, officially or otherwise, of knowing the state of the slave trade to the south of the Line?—No, except what I got from papers found on board detained vessels, and from conversation with naval officers.

5144. From information so obtained, were you led to believe that the slave trade on the coast of Africa, taking both the east and west coast, had increased or decreased during the period you were there?—It had decreased in the bights, so as to be almost entirely destroyed at one time.

5145. The question refers to the coast on the south of the Line?—When it was suppressed to a great extent in the bights, it was driven both north and south of the bights; the old slave trade rivers in the bights were the principal places frequented by slave vessels, but the whole efforts of the cruizers were directed to that point, and the trade was almost entirely suppressed in those rivers, the Bonny and many others.

5146. You had no information which could enable you to judge whether the slave trade on the whole had increased or decreased during your residence at Sierra Leone?—I should say, that it decreased during the last two years I was there, from the immense number of captures that were made.

5147. It has been stated by a witness on the Committee, Captain Bosanquet, that in his belief, the slave trade south of the line, has increased materially during the last 10 years?—I think Captain Bosanquet refers to the eastern coast.

5148. Captain Bosanquet stated that he was, at two periods, on the coast, and that at the last period he found the slave trade going on with much more violence than at the first?—The effect of the suppression of the slave trade in the bights was to drive the slave trade both north and south, and it increased in the north and south, but I should say that the whole extent of the slave trade had decidedly decreased during the last two years.

5149. Do you think that it is a very material decrease?—I do.

5150. Do you know any particular places on the coast to which slavers have resorted, more especially since it has been so much checked on the west coast north of the Line?—It increased to the south; there have been many more Brazilian captures made in the rivers immediately south of the Line, of late years, than there were before; but the great diminution in the bights has not been made up by the increased slave trade either north or south.

5151. Mr. Stuart Wortley.] Will you explain what period you refer to when you use the expression, “of late years”?—In the years 1835 and 1836, it began to diminish, and in 1837 there was hardly any slave trade at all in the bights.

5152. Then, I understand you to say that there has been an increase of captures south of the Line since the years 1835 and 1836?—Yes, there has been.

5153. Could the capture of vessels under Portuguese colours have taken place till 1836?—It could have taken place if the same rule had been applied then as was applied in 1838.

5154. But in fact were there any captures made?—No, the rule was not applied till 1838.

5155. Then when you speak of the increase of captures since 1835, you mean that the practice of making captures south of the Line has been introduced since that period?—Yes; and I would observe with respect to that, that the Act of Parliament for the suppression of the Portuguese slave trade really did very little good. I am alluding to the Act which was passed in order to catch vessels south of the Line, because we already dealt with them in the way I have mentioned, and the only trade the Act could possibly affect, was the trade carried on between the Portuguese islands off the coast and the main-land.

5156. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you mean Prince’s Island?—Prince’s Island and St. Thomas.

5157. Mr. W. Patten.] Seeing that the sale of those goods at auctions conduces in some degree to the continuance of the slave trade on that coast, can you point out any other means by which those goods can be disposed of without contributing to the encouragement of that trade?—I do not see how it is possible to form regulations which shall follow the goods through all the hands into which they pass.

5158. Sir T. D. Acland.] Could they be sold elsewhere?—Yes, there is trade on the coast; but I think it would be very injurious to interfere with trade.

5159. Mr. Patten.] Do you think that if the captors of the slave vessel were allowed to take the vessels and cargoes, they having been condemned, and sell them in any other country, they might not make greater gains than they do by selling them on the spot?—It is possible that they might make greater gains, but it would be impossible for the court to allow goods that have been once submitted to their jurisdiction regularly to pass into other hands for disposal. When the goods are condemned, they are placed under the authority of the marshal, to be dealt with according to the decision of the court; it cannot allow that decree to be carried into effect by any other than its own officers.

5160. According to the present law, it cannot; but do not you think that arrangements might be made by which the parties making the capture might derive greater benefit from the capture, by being enabled after the condemnation to dispose of the goods in another country?—I think the captors would not benefit by such a regulation; it would take them away from their cruizing stations, where they have an opportunity of making other captures.

5161. Have you not heard complaints made by the captors of the very little benefit they obtain from it?—Yes; but I think without good grounds.

5162. Can you state what is the highest amount that you have heard of paid to a cruizer for the capture of a slaver?—I do not know any thing of the reward given in England; it does not come before us in any way whatever; that is an affair between the captor and the Government. But it is not the captor, strictly speaking, that is injured in this case; for the captor, as far as the court is concerned, has no interest whatever; the goods are not condemned as a prize to the captor, but as a prize to the British and foreign Governments, and the British Government may pay or withhold its moiety, if it pleases. It generally gives it to the captor, but it is in its power to pay any smaller sum. The captor has no claim, except upon the bounty of Government, with respect to the goods sold at auctions.

5163. But does it not come to this, that the remuneration paid to the captor depends upon the value of the cargo which he captures?—Where a captor has seized a cargo, it does; but cases vary very much; for instance, many vessels are seized quite empty, without any cargo; many vessels come over without any cargo, I should say the great proportion. Where a vessel is full of slaves, the interest of the captor is not affected, because the bulk of his remuneration depends upon the head-money he gets for the slaves.

5164. Can you account for this circumstance, that in a return made to Parliament, in the list of vessels that have been sold, it appears that the proceeds or effects of one vessel have amounted to 1,108l., and the charges on the sale have amounted to 585l. out of the 1,108l.?—It seems very enormous, but I must know the circumstances of the case.

5165. This is the passage, “On the following cases of slave trade vessels sent in for adjudication to the commission courts of Sierra Leone by Captain Tucker of Her Majesty’s ship Wolverine, the charges here detailed were made: The San Antonia Victirioso, a Brazilian vessel, the proceeds and effects of that sale were 1,108l., and the charges on the sale were 585l.”?—I cannot account for it; it did not happen in my time; I should know the name of the vessel if it had.

5166. Chairman.] Can you, from your knowledge of the usual course of proceeding, explain the circumstances under which such a charge could have arisen?—No; I know what the expenses are likely to be, and I might account for a portion of it in that way.

5167. Mr. W. Patten.] Will you state the expenses in detail?—The expenses on Brazilian vessels were enormous, owing to the duty that was levied at Sierra Leone by the customs, on spirits and tobacco. The spirits and tobacco that are sent in Brazilian slave vessels are of a very inferior quality indeed, and the duty levied is very high; in many cases exceeding the value of the goods; so much so, that I took it upon myself a short time before I gave up my situation, to abandon the whole of several cargoes of spirits and tobacco to the custom-house, because the goods would not sell at the auction for the amount of the duty. I thought that the captors had great reason to complain; but subsequently to that, an Act was passed by the Governor in Council there, which was brought in by myself, to meet this exigency, and since that time I do not think that the captors have any reason to complain about the duty levied on those goods.

5168. Chairman.] What was the nature of the Act you allude to?—It put on an ad valorem duty instead of a fixed duty; the value of the articles alluded to was so small, that when you put a fixed duty upon them, a duty that was framed to meet tobacco and spirits from England, which were of a very different quality, they were hardly worth any thing beyond the duty; and I should suppose that was the principal cause of the heavy charges now referred to; but I know nothing of the case.

5169. Mr. W. Patten.] To take another case: the Palmira, a Spanish vessel was captured, the effects produced 1,824l., and 582l. were the charges?—That is not in my time.

5170. Chairman.] Do you explain that by the same circumstance?—No; not knowing any thing of the circumstances of the case, I cannot explain it; the vessel may have been detained for several months at the desire of the captor; but I am quite sure that, with the exception of one or two items, and heavy items, of which the captors, I think, had a right to complain, and over which the court had no control, the expenses were not unreasonably heavy.

5171. What other items had they reason to complain of besides the one you have mentioned, of the heavy duty upon the article?—With regard to translating documents. I pressed this evil very strongly upon the Government at home, and they have remedied that since. It was found that very great benefit arose to the court from translating all documents almost that were found on board detained slavers, because, in consequence of those translations, we were able to condemn many vessels which would have escaped if it had not been for the translation of papers found on board former vessels, which gave a full history of the transactions in which those vessels subsequently taken were engaged. The translations were made at a heavy expense, and were included in the captor’s expenses, and it could not be avoided; it fell very heavily, indeed, upon the captors; and I recommended that the translator should be adopted by the court, and paid in the same way as other officers of the court, and that his remuneration should be charged in the contingent expenses, which are borne equally by the British Government and the foreign Government, so as to relieve the captors altogether. The court felt a delicacy when they would have wished to have a translation of particular papers, in having it done, because the expense fell so very heavily upon the captors.

5172. Mr. W. Patten.] Doctor Madden recommends that “the captors should be allowed to furnish their own interpretation of the documents that require to be translated, subject to the approval and revision of the British Commissioners?”—That is impossible, you can never allow a man to interpret in his own cause. If you left it to the captor to decide upon what papers he would have translated, he would have none translated, if the condemnation of his vessel was secure without it; but now there is no inducement to captors to withhold papers, because the whole expense of the translation is at present borne by the Government.

5173. Chairman.] In consequence of suggestions made to the Government here?—Yes; in consequence of suggestions made in 1839.

5174. Mr. W. Patten.] Doctor Madden also says, “in many cases more than half the prize-money that the captors had reason to expect is swallowed up in the charges made by the various officers at Sierra Leone employed in taking care, and ultimately disposing of the effects of the captured vessel.” Do you know what are the charges that would come under the other charge?—Yes.

5175. Can you distinguish those from the charges you have mentioned?—In the case of an empty Spanish vessel, it is not at all likely that the captor will receive much from the sale of the vessel or effects, because the vessel is cut up into a number of different parts, and those are sold for fire-wood in a country where fire-wood is tolerably plentiful; and, therefore, the expenses that are incurred previously to cutting up, will absorb any thing that can be derived from the old vessel cut up and sold as fire-wood. As far as the goods are concerned, the only charge, besides the duty, is the commission of the commissioner of appraisement and sale, which the captor would have to pay whoever sold the vessel, without having the security which he possesses now of having a good man, or the richest merchant in the place as the person answerable for the money, because in appointing the commissioner of appraisement and sale, the Court takes bond to a very large amount, that he shall account properly for the proceeds of the goods sold; he charges the ordinary commission, 5 per cent., and 21⁄2 per cent. for expenses; and I believe that there is no other charge except the pay of the Kroomen, employed as labourers, and the marshal.

5176. Mr. Forster.] Do you think Dr. Madden’s complaint upon the subject correct?—“The intervention of the whole present establishment of marshals, collectors, surveyors, interpreters, harbour-masters, agents, storekeepers, canoe-hirers, and victuallers of captured ships’ crews might be dispensed with.” I do not know what he means by “marshals;” we have only one marshal for the court. There is only one collector of customs, and with him we have nothing to do; he is the officer of the Crown, who collects the same duties from these vessels as he would do from any other vessels; we have no control over him; he is independent of the court; the surveyor is not employed by the court, but subsequently to the condemnation of the vessel, he is employed by the captor to survey, in order to enable him to make a claim according to the tonnage, through his agent in England; that is a question with which we have nothing to do. The interpreter is paid by the court; he gets 5s. for each examination, or something of that kind; he is a poor man; they could not get it cheaper done, and there is no hardship in that. The harbour-master charges exactly the same for a prize-vessel as he does for an English vessel; there is a regular fee, under an Act of the Governor and Council; we do not collect it. I do not know who are meant by “agents,” or “storekeepers,” or “canoe-hirers;” I do not know whom he refers to there.

5177. Mr. W. Patten.] You do not know of any charges connected with those departments that you have read over?—I know nothing about “agents” and “storekeepers.” There may be a charge where goods are kept, but I do not recollect a cargo ever having been kept, for it is landed and sold immediately; the auctioneer is obliged to sell it under the regulations within a certain time. There are canoes employed to land the cargo by the marshal and by “victuallers of captured ships’ crews.” I do not know whom he means.

5178. Is there any expense thrown upon captured vessels in case of slaves being brought on shore, for the maintenance of the slaves after they are put on shore?—I mentioned in the early part of my evidence that on their being landed they were handed over to the liberated African department, to be kept as slaves until adjudication. They are fed by the liberated African department at the ordinary rate at which the other liberated Africans in the yard are fed; and when the vessel is condemned, the liberated African department brings to the marshal his account for feeding them, at the same rate which is charged for other liberated Africans; I think it is 11⁄2d. per head per day, or something of that kind; and there is a further charge, I think, of 4d. or 6d. per day in the hospital; those are expenses over which the court has no control.

5179. Is any of that charge made upon the share which goes to the captors?—Yes; it comes out of the proceeds of the vessel; they pay half, as it were; it goes in diminution of the moiety which goes to the British Government.

5180. Mr. Evans.] The captor has no claim upon that?—The captor has no claim upon it, except from the bounty of Government.

5181. Chairman.] But the Government does generally hand over its moiety to the captor?—Yes.

5182. Then by whatever amount that moiety is diminished, the captor’s share is diminished?—Yes.

5183. Mr. W. Patten.] If any means could be discovered of doing away with those great expenses on the sale of captured vessels, do not you think that it would give great stimulus to cruizers on the coast?—I do not think they require a stimulus; but I do not think it is possible to diminish the charges materially in the shape of duties, which is the heavy item. In translating the papers, they have been already relieved, and also in a great measure from the duties; and I really do not think that there is any change that can materially diminish the expenses, so as to have the services properly performed.

5184. Chairman.] Those are services which must be performed by somebody, which can hardly be performed at less expense than they are now performed, and if the expenses are to be defrayed, they must be defrayed by the Government or by the captors?—Yes: certainly.

5185. And the Government gets the moiety of the proceeds, but out of its bounty habitually makes over that portion to the captor?—Yes.

5186. You do not think it unfair that the bounty should be diminished by those expenses, not being extravagant expenses, in your opinion?—The bounty granted by Act of Parliament is not diminished. Cases do happen sometimes, as the case of the Passos, where the expenses exceed the proceeds, and in those cases the Government pays the difference, leaving the bounty perfectly free to the captor. None of the expenses go in diminution of the bounty given by Act of Parliament.

5187. But this is a sort of premium given beyond the bounty?—I suppose it was given to enable them to pay the expenses, but they get something beyond the expenses, and the bounty comes to them entire, not suffering any diminution from the general expenses, and the proceeds go in payment of the expenses.

5188. Mr. W. Patten.] Do they get the bounty in all cases?—Yes, in all cases captured under the treaties.

5189. If the vessel has no slaves on board, do they receive the bounty?—Then they get the bounty on the tonnage of the captured vessel.

5190. Mr. Stuart Wortley.] You have been speaking of cases in which there are slavers captured on board the prizes; in cases where there are no slavers captured on board the prizes, is there any charge made on the proceeds of the vessel on account of the crew?—The crew of a slaver brought into Sierra Leone never consists of more than three, therefore the expense cannot be very great; the adjudication generally takes place on the eighth day after arrival, and there is a regular sum which is given day by day in money to each man; as far as I recollect it, the captain and mate get 3s. a day, and the other man 2s.

5191. Whatever the amount of that charge is, it is made against the proceeds of the vessel?—Yes.

5192. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you recollect sending a despatch home in December 1838, giving your opinion upon the state of the slave trade?—There is a despatch here upon the subject.

5193. Does that despatch refer to the subject of this country retiring from the contest which it has so long carried on?—Yes, I think it does, but I can find the passage.

5194. Can you state what the opinion was?—The opinion expressed was, that unless more effectual means were taken for the suppression of the traffic, that perhaps more harm than good was done by the exertions that we had made previously; but since that time a very great alteration has taken place; I expressed my opinion with regard to an increase of the force on the coast, and the occupation of British territory that belonged to us, where we were supplanted by the slave traders, at Bulama especially, and also as to the punishment of the crews engaged in the slave trade.

5195. Have any of those measures which you recommended been carried into effect?—The Portuguese have been driven from Bulama, and a much more effectual method of cruizing has been followed; very superior vessels have been employed.

5196. Have you now any doubt of the propriety of continuing our policy?—Certainly not: with regard to cruizing under the present system, I would propose increasing the force still, and employing a certain number of steam-vessels; indeed, there are several measures that I might propose. The occupation of Bulama was referred to; I think that would be an important measure; it was urged very strongly in that despatch to which I have been referred, and the commander of the Brisk, Captain Kellett, then for the first time visited the place, and drove the Portuguese slave traders from it, and carried away the slaves who were kept in the barracoons there. Another proposition was, sending home foreign crews, and perhaps I may be allowed to read the passage containing it:—“The only other suggestion which we shall at present offer is, the adoption of means to secure the punishment of persons implicated in slave trade adventures. As things are now managed, the confiscation of a slave vessel affects only the owner or the underwriters; and the parties who navigate the condemned vessel are constantly seen to embark again, on a second illegal voyage, a few days after the termination of the first. The complete personal impunity which attends the agents by whom illegal slave trade is carried on, combined with the high wages by which their services are secured, renders the slave trade, notwithstanding all its inconveniences, the most desirable employment for the Spanish and Portuguese sailor. On this subject we beg leave to refer your Lordship to Class A., 1824-1825, pages 142 and 143; and to Class A., 1836, pages 217 and 218. The plan which we now propose for adoption, with regard to slave vessels captured on this coast, and condemned at Sierra Leone, is applicable, with some modifications, to similar seizures in other parts of the world; but its effect may be tried here in the first instance. Both the Portuguese and Spanish treaties require that the captain, and a part, at least, of the crew, of a captured slave ship should be left on board; and this clause, whilst it sanctions the present almost invariable practice of sending up only the master, and one or two of the seamen, of a detained vessel, as witnesses before the mixed courts, and landing the remainder of the crew, as soon as possible, at the nearest or most convenient port, equally permits the detention of the whole of the crew, if it should be thought necessary, and we now beg leave to recommend the latter course, with a view to ulterior proceedings against all the guilty parties. The hulk already fixed at Sierra Leone may be used as a temporary receptacle for such prisoners; and one small steamer, or vessel of war, might be constantly employed in conveying the prisoners from this place to England, to obtain the orders of Her Majesty’s Government as to their delivery, at Lisbon (if Portuguese), or at Cadiz or some other port (if Spanish). Portugal and Spain are both bound by treaty, as well as by their own law, to punish their respective subjects, ‘who may participate in an illicit traffic in slaves,’ and ‘to assimilate, as much as possible, their legislation in this respect to that of Great Britain;’ and those powers will thus enjoy the opportunity of fulfilling their obligations. The punishment of the guilty persons might be strongly urged by the British ambassadors; but whether punished or not, we are persuaded that a more severe blow would be given by this proceeding to foreign slave trade than it has ever yet received. No less than 687 Spanish and Portuguese sailors were engaged in navigating the 30 vessels which came before us last year. All these men have long since returned to their former occupation; but had they been withdrawn, as we propose, from their old haunts and pursuits, carried to Europe far from their slave trading connexions, fined, imprisoned, and otherwise punished, and left to find their way back as best they could to Cuba and Brazil, the alarm which would have been thereby caused amongst the many thousands of seamen engaged in the same manner, would have done more to check and injure the illegal traffic than any means that have been adopted for the last twenty years.”

5197. Mr. Forster.] In the paper you have just read, the necessity of increased measures for the punishment of the crews of slave vessels is alluded to; you are not aware, probably, that it is in evidence before this Committee, that those crews, being landed on the coast at the nearest point to that at which the capture took place, not above one in ten of them escape death from destitution and want, in which case you would probably think the punishment sufficient?—I was not aware of the fact; but still I would have that one sent home.

5198. Chairman.] You would rather have the regular punishment of the sailors?—A total withdrawal of the men from the place where their slave trading occupation leads them, even if they are not punished in Portugal and Spain, would have a good effect; they would be withdrawn so completely from the line of their ordinary business, that the expense of their finding their way to the Havannah or the Brazils would deter them from engaging in such voyages, except at extravagantly high wages.

5199. Mr. Aldam.] Why could not they work their way back?—But they still would be losing the enormous wages that they would obtain on board a slave ship.

5200. Mr. W. Patten.] Do you happen to know the wages given on board the slave ships?—They vary a little; but the wages of a common sailor I have known to be 5l. a month. I should say a common seaman on board one of those vessels would obtain, taking the value which the slaves fetch, 7l. or 8l. a month on a successful voyage.

5201. Of course, those sailors undertake those voyages, and obtain that enormous remuneration on account of the danger they run to life and limb, from coming into the hands of our cruizers?—Yes; English sailors would, until lately, have been hung if we caught them on board a slave vessel, and, therefore, we see no English sailors in that trade; but you would have men of all nations volunteer into it, if it were not for the danger they ran.

5202. There is nothing in the trade itself, except the danger that they run from our cruizers, which would lead to such enormous wages?—Nothing whatever; they may be exposed to very great inconveniences, and if you increase the inconveniences in the way I proposed, the wages would double, probably; the rate of wages depends upon the danger and inconvenience.

5203. Do you think that all the parties usually engaged in the slave trade are perfectly aware that they run the risk of being put on shore in case of capture, and of having to undergo great peril of their lives before they can return to their homes?—It is known in all the slaving ports; it has been the universal practice ever since the cruizers were on the station to land the crews; indeed it cannot be otherwise with the small vessels that we have on the coast. To venture to take fifty or sixty scoundrels like the crews of those vessels, on board such a ship, would be madness.

5204. Have you had your attention called to the very great hardship which some of those crews have sustained when put on shore?—It has not come before me in any way whatever; I have no knowledge of it at all; I attended this Committee some time ago, and I heard of one case, where it was mentioned that they were starved, but that is the only case I have heard of.

5205. Can you suggest any alteration by which they could be put on shore and subjected to very great personal inconvenience, without the dreadful loss of life that we have heard of?—I think they were as badly off when they were landed at Prince’s, which is a Portuguese settlement, as they are at any other place.

5206. Would it increase the expenses very materially, or be a very material inconvenience, to fix upon certain points of the coast at which the crews could be landed before the vessels were sent to Sierra Leone for judgment?—I do not think it could be done; it would take the cruizer out of his ground, and would inconvenience him greatly; the object is to keep the vessel efficient for the cruize, and keep him on the ground; an empty vessel might run out, in order to be taken, while the full slaver got away.

5207. If the regulation were adopted, that a cruizer taking a slaver in certain districts, which should be detained, should be obliged to land the crew at particular places; would that be practicable?—I do not think it is possible.

5208. Mr. Forster.] Independently of the feeling of humanity towards the crews themselves, do you not think that the example of such treatment must have a very bad effect in the eyes of the natives of the coast of Africa, as showing them an example of inhumanity on the part of those who profess to be acting solely in that way from motives of humanity?—I have never known a cruizer act inhumanly; I heard of one case the other day, where they were starved, but it was stated in that case that it was owing to the refusal of the Portuguese factories to support them.

5209. Mr. Stuart Wortley.] In the paper you have read, it was stated that there were 687 sailors engaged in navigating 30 slave vessels; a short time since you stated that with respect to ships condemned at Sierra Leone, there were seldom more than three or four connected with the navigation of a vessel; will you reconcile those two statements?—They only leave those three or four on board; they land all but those who are required as witnesses at Sierra Leone.

5210. There are no individuals belonging to the slave crew retained on board?—None, but those who are required as witnesses.

5211. Then those individuals of whom you spoke, as being charges against the vessel, were individuals retained as witnesses?—Yes.

5212. Chairman.] Do you think that the price paid to the Spanish or Portuguese Governments, as the case might be, would suffice for the maintenance of the crews of those vessels?—Yes, it would be only rationing them for the voyage across.

5213. And paying for their passage?—Now we pay continually out of the foreign moiety for the passage; at least the commissariat does.

5214. That is for the captain and mate; but here you are supposing several hundred instead of 20 or 30?—The rationing of the commissariat commences the moment we cease to have any thing to do with the vessel; the day the vessel is condemned, there is given to the commissary a list of the men who will come upon him for rations, and as long as they remain in the colony they will come upon him daily; when a number of vessels have been captured, and at one time we had 37 vessels lying in the harbour at the same time, they would cause a great drain upon the provisions, which are sent out only to meet ordinary contingencies; in that case the commissary went to the expense of hiring vessels to send those men away, and charged those expenses, in the same way as he would have done the rations, against the share of the foreign government.

5215. If you brought the crew to Sierra Leone you would increase the expense of maintenance very considerably?—Yes.

5216. You still consider that the moiety given to the foreign government would cover such expenses?—Yes, if vessels continued to be taken as they have been in the last few years, they would do so certainly. The only case in which I should conceive that the expense would exceed the moiety, is where very few vessels are condemned, and where you would have to run across with a very few passengers.

5217. This could be done by the existing treaty, without the necessity for any fresh negotiation?—Yes.

5218. Captain Fitzroy.] What becomes of the remainder of that moiety which goes to the foreign government, the part which is not used in paying for the maintenance of those men?—I believe there are always accounts going on between the governments at home, and it is used in England in some way that I am not aware of; the Treasury disposes of it either by paying it over to the agent of the foreign government here, or in some other way.

5219. Is the foreign moiety paid to our Government?—The whole of it is paid to the commissary at Sierra Leone; he has accounts with the Treasury; there are regular accounts which are made up as between the British Government and the foreign government, showing the exact sum that is due by the English Government to the foreign Government for their moiety.

5220. Mr. W. Patten.] Looking to the general nature of the vessels that are sold at Sierra Leone, do you think that they would bring by auction as large a price if sold in the West Indies, as they would sold at Sierra Leone?—Yes, I think they would.

5221. Do you think they would bring a larger price?—There have been vessels sold at the West Indies, but there was not any material difference in price; it would depend a good deal upon the island to which they went; in some islands there might be no great demand.

5222. Chairman.] There is a good deal of small traffic, is there not, along the coasts of the West India islands?—Yes; I should think the chances are, that the prices vessels would fetch in the West Indies would be higher than at Sierra Leone.

5223. Mr. W. Patten.] Suppose the station was established at the West Indies, would there not be the security that they would be sold without being made use of again for the slave trade?—There might be. I have strongly recommended that vessels should be sent to the West Indies, when they have cargoes on board; that the slaves should be landed in the West Indies, and the vessels, of course, might be sold there when sent over.

5224. Chairman.] You would bring them to Sierra Leone for adjudication?—Yes; there could not be a mixed commission established under the present system in the West Indies; because the treaty requires that there shall be one mixed commission on the coast of Africa, and another in the West Indies, and we have one there already at Havannah.

5225. You would think it a very material advantage, looking to the slave trade, if those sales could take place at the West Indies instead of on the coast of Africa?—No; the advantage that I was alluding to, is an advantage for the supply of labour in the West Indies, but not with regard to the supply of vessels, because the vessel might soon run across the Atlantic, and get into the hands of the slavers, as at present.

5226. If a person wished to obtain those vessels bought in the West Indies, for the encouragement of the slave trade, he would buy them at a great disadvantage as compared with the price which he now pays at Sierra Leone?—Yes; but notwithstanding the higher price in the West Indies, it is not likely to be such a price that the owner would not be able to get much more from the slave dealers than anybody else.

5227. If the sales of the prize vessels and the prize goods were made in the West Indies rather than at Sierra Leone, would they be less serviceable in the encouraging the slave trade?—Those particular goods would.

5228. Would the absence of that mode of supply be in any way an obstruction to the slave trader?—Certainly not.

5229. Are they got at those prize sales at a cheaper rate than they are directly from the merchants?—The price goods obtained at public auctions is much lower than you would buy them for in one of the shops.

5230. Then by so far as the prize sales in Sierra Leone do furnish a cheaper article to the slaver than the regular sale would do, so far they are an assistance to his trade?—The cheapness of goods sold at Sierra Leone is useful to all trades as well as to that.

5231. But if those sales did not take place at Sierra Leone, they would not be supplied so cheaply as they are?—It is a very small portion of assistance they receive; but so far as it goes it is an assistance.

5232. A vessel sold at Sierra Leone, is more easily convertible to the purposes of the slave trade, than if it were sold in the West Indies?—More easily, but not much more so, because the vessel might be run across at once.

5233. Is there not more demand for vessels in the West Indies than at Sierra Leone?—Certainly, and therefore the price would be higher.

5234. Captain Fitzroy.] Is there not also an advantage in having men disposable, ready to man those ships when purchased?—Yes.

5235. Mr. Forster.] Are not the cases very few in which they would man the vessels at once again?—I have known cases of that kind.

5236. But are not the cases comparatively rare?—Yes.

5237. Chairman.] Who generally are purchasers of prize vessels?—The greater portion are purchased on speculation; the number sold now is not at all, in proportion to the number taken, what it was before the Spanish treaty, under which most of the vessels are condemned, require that the vessels should be cut up, but some are bought on speculation, and come into the fruit trade, and others go into the Mediterranean trade; others are bought by slavers.

5238. Mr. Evans.] Do you know any thing of the slave ship Almirante, for which vessel the sum of 600l. was offered by an officer of Government, to be used as a tender, which offer was not accepted, and the vessel was sold at 1,500l., and immediately went down to the Bonny and took away 600 slaves from that port?—The Almirante was captured before my time at Sierra Leone, but I think it is very likely, because such things were taking place continually.

5239. Mr. W. Patten.] When you were at Sierra Leone, you have stated in your evidence already, that the liberated Africans were carrying on the trade with much greater advantage than the white merchants, in consequence of the price at which they obtained goods at public auctions?—Not entirely in consequence of that, but that has been one great means to assist them. For many years past, before those prize goods were sold at Sierra Leone, the liberated Africans had gradually been working themselves into notoriety; most of them are very much addicted to trading, and the persons whom they have supplanted are a lazy, indolent, worthless set, who cannot compete with them at all, and having completely driven out of the market the Maroons and settlers, they are now gradually driving out the white merchants.

5240. There is then this additional disadvantage in those auctions at Sierra Leone, that they are destroying the trade of the white merchants of the place, by the other merchants being able to purchase goods at a price which is not remunerating to the British merchant?—I consider it a great advantage.

5241. Is it not a great disadvantage in one respect, that it is discouraging the trade between England and the coast of Africa at that particular point?—No, I think quite the reverse; the supply of goods will be the same whoever are the receivers, and the extent of our export to Sierra Leone will not be diminished by altering the colour of the merchants there.

5242. But if it should be desirable to establish a general trade with that part of the coast in a legitimate way, does not the sale of goods at those public auctions, at materially reduced prices, offer a great impediment to English merchants conducting trade upon that part of the coast?—I think its first effect might be that; but its ultimate effect, I think, would be far different. I think the great point is to encourage the use of such articles, and to increase the desire for them; and the British goods will always, in competition, beat out the foreign goods from the market.

5243. Has it not pretty much the same effect there that a very large sale, under a bankruptcy in England, has upon the trade in this country?—I think not, to the same degree there; because what you require there, in order to create a demand for goods of good quality is, to allow the people to have the use of something superior to what they would have without those sales.

5244. Chairman.] But the goods sold at those prize sales are articles of an inferior kind, are they not?—The goods that are sold there are very much the same as those that are used by the natives in their own trade, and probably many of them are British manufacture.

5245. You think that it is an advantage to the trade ultimately, that those forced sales, at unnaturally low prices, should be made within the colony, producing a taste which will be gratified by a more regular trade?—Yes.

5246. Though they may interfere with the regular trade in the colony?—That is only for a time.

5247. Mr. Aldam.] Are the goods English goods?—The principal part of them are.

5248. Chairman.] Those forced sales have had a very injurious effect upon the regular trade of the place, have they not?—Yes, upon the shops; at the same time they have raised into wealth, and brought forward still more prominently than before, the liberated African hawkers.

5249. Have they created a class of native traders who have extended commerce inland further than British trade by itself, in its natural course, would have done?—Yes, certainly; the trade between Sierra Leone and the Sherboro’, and the rivers in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone, has been very much more brisk in the large canoes that are employed by the liberated African traders, since goods have come in so cheaply.

5250. Therefore you think, incidentally to the regular trade, advantage has been given by these forced sales, which have created tastes which would not have existed under other circumstances?—Yes.

5251. Mr. Forster.] The brisk trade which you have spoken of between Sherboro’ and Sierra Leone would be with those goods; a trade chiefly with the slave dealers in that quarter?—All are slave dealers, if they can be, beyond British jurisdiction; but what the Sierra Leone traders receive in exchange for goods are rice, and other articles of produce, which are consumed in the colony; for though rice is the principal food of all who can afford to pay for it, there is no rice raised in the colony; and therefore a trade of some kind is required to be carried on, in order to procure the means of subsistence.

5252. Chairman.] The colony has not the means of supporting itself?—No.

5253. Mr. Forster.] Though those goods may be sold to slave dealers in those districts, you think that it is a legitimate and desirable trade for the English merchant?—Yes.

5254. Mr. Evans.] Have you not stated that the black merchants at Sierra Leone have more capital than the English?—There are hardly any English merchants; there are agents of English houses. The black merchants have twice as much capital as the resident English agents, but there is one merchant, Mr. William Cole, who is carrying on business on his own account, and he went into the market, he did not hold back and oppose the thing, as was done by the other English traders, but he entered into competition with the black traders, and made a good deal of money by it.

5255. In Sierra Leone merchants who had capital to employ would have considerable advantage over the agents or merchants who had not the money to lay down?—Yes.

5256. Mr. Forster.] Was not the want of money you have alluded to on the part of the English merchants, mainly owing to having their stores filled with English merchandize, which was rendered completely unsaleable by the quantity of prize goods thrown into the market in the way you have mentioned?—I think not, because Mr. Cole was in just the same circumstances; he had the largest store in the town; but he had more money than the others; he had money in his pocket instead of being in debt in England, and instead of sending home money as others were obliged to do to pay their accounts in England, he reserved his money to purchase cheap goods in the colony.

5257. Had he a large stock?—Yes, he had; but he took advantage of the circumstances that occurred, and made his profit by them.

5258. Would it answer the purpose of the trader at Sierra Leone to keep a large quantity of goods and money on his hands?—If Mr. Cole had known of those prize goods coming in such large quantities he would not have purchased goods from England, but he happened to have those goods in store as the other merchants had, and he happened to have money also, and he took advantage of the prize goods coming in, but there were very few merchants in that position.

Martis, 14º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Mr. Denison.
Mr. W. Evans.

Captain Fitzroy.
Mr. Forster.
Mr. Hamilton.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. W. Patten.

LORD VISCOUNT SANDON, IN THE CHAIR.

Henry William Macaulay, Esq. called in, and further examined.

5261. Chairman.] Do you wish to make some remarks upon Dr. Madden’s Report, page 14?—I do. He states that liberated Africans at the prize sales at Sierra Leone “buy up the coppers, guns, and ship’s stores of vessels for the British agents of the slave traders of the Sherboro’ and Gallinas residing at Freetown, and thus they acquire a taste for this illegal traffic.” Now he might have known, if he had made any inquiry at Sierra Leone, that coppers are never sold at public auction, or any kind of equipment for the slave trade. The subject is referred to by Colonel Doherty in his reply to Dr. Madden’s Report. He gives a positive contradiction to that statement, and I can confirm the contradiction.

5262. To what are the sales confined?—To the vessels and the goods found on board, and to the tackle, apparel, and furniture; that is the term used in the condemnation; but coppers, irons, and any other articles that may be used again in the slave trade are always brought up to the commission-office or warehouses. It is the interest of the Mixed Commissions to gain every single copper they can; for, when broken up, the coppers are sold, and supply funds from which the repairs of the boat used in the service of the Mixed Commission are paid; that is, the boat used to carry about the officers of the court in the harbour.

5263. Do you mean that the accommodation which the officers derive is dependent upon that?—No; but they are constantly afloat. During the time that a vessel is there the marshal is required to visit her three times a day.

5264. But is the accommodation dependent upon its being derived from this source?—No; whenever that copper fund is insufficient, the repairs of the boat are paid out of the funds of which the foreign governments pay a portion; but the money derived from the sale of the coppers is appropriated to that purpose, and there is a regular account kept of the sale of those coppers that are broken up. There never was an instance of a copper being sold at public auction, or any equipment.

5265. Have you any reason to believe that this practice does lead to the encouragement of the slave trade?—I have none whatever.

5266. Have you reason to believe that any of the parties, either British or native, living at Freetown, are in any way sharers in the proceeds of slave transactions?—They may sell goods to the slave traders.

5267. Are they sharers in the proceeds of slave goods?—I believe not; I cannot say for certain, because we have a shifting population of Spaniards and Portuguese passing through the colony; but I should say no resident whatever shares in such proceeds. It is a thing which one cannot know, because of course such a transaction would be concealed if it existed.

5268. Are you not aware of any British agents of the slave traders; are you aware of the existence of agents of the Sherboro’ and of Gallinas residing in Freetown?—Yes, of persons purchasing vessels on account of slave traders, and I have no doubt purchasing goods also.

5269. What is the interest in the transaction which such persons have?—A commission, I presume.

5270. Mr. Forster.] In your former evidence, you have mentioned a merchant, of the name of Kidd, as acting as agent for the purchase of prize vessels on behalf of the slave traders at the Gallinas; in your opinion, was Mr. Kidd singular in that respect?—I do not recollect any other person employed in that way during my time.

5271. Is it within your knowledge that merchants, who were members of the Council of Government at Sierra Leone, have been engaged in similar transactions?—Never, to my knowledge; but I would also mention, as Mr. Kidd’s name has been spoken of, that, since the last meeting of the Committee, I have met with his name accidentally, in connexion with another transaction of the same kind, in the printed Parliamentary Papers, and therefore I may refer to it. It is the case of a vessel sold to a slave trader, a vessel called the Ligeira, which was captured a second time, and brought into Sierra Leone a very short time after she left the port; it appeared that in the meantime Mr. Kidd had carried her from the colony and sold her to a slave trader, and she was captured almost immediately afterwards. The case is reported at page 101 of Class (A.) of the Slave Trade Papers, for 1839-40.

5272. Chairman.] Would it not be desirable, if possible, that all the vessels taken in the slave trade should be broken up?—Certainly, it would be the best thing that could possibly be done; and in those cases where it appeared to the court, during the latter part of the time that I administered the mixed courts there, that a vessel could have been condemned either as a Portuguese or a Spaniard, in all these cases we condemned her as a Spaniard, in order that she might be cut up after her condemnation; for the slave traders were seriously injured by being deprived of the means of getting off the coast and getting slaves again.

5273. Mr. W. Patten.] In the case of the breaking up of a vessel, do the captors get any prize money?—Yes, they get a bounty on the tonnage of that vessel; she is measured by the surveyors before being broken up, in order to ascertain her tonnage by the new mode of measurement, and upon that measurement the captors are paid the bounty in England.

5274. It is immaterial to the captors whether the vessel is broken up or sold again, so far as their private interests are concerned?—Except that the vessel sells whole for much more than she does when she is broken up for fire-wood.

5275. Is the vessel valued only as fire-wood when broken up?—They get only a moiety of the proceeds of the broken parts, in the other case they get a moiety of a vessel fit for sea, with all the rigging perfect.

5276. You do not coincide with Dr. Madden, who recommends that a vessel when captured should be put into the possession of the capturing officer to be disposed of?—It would be quite impossible; the foreigners would very justly complain of us if we left the vessel in charge of the officer when once brought before the court. It appears by a paper, which I have seen this morning only, that already they complain of irons and other things, to condemn the vessel, being put on board after the arrival of the vessel at Sierra Leone. Now, if during the time the vessel was passing through the court, and during the time when the marshal now has charge of her, in order to prevent any thing of that kind happening, you left the vessel to the officer, who is interested in putting three or four shackles on board, which is quite sufficient to condemn the vessel, I think they would have just cause to complain.

5277. What Dr. Madden recommends is, that when the vessel has been condemned it should be put at the disposal of the commanding officer on the post, for the exclusive use of the service of the navy?—A small number of the vessels condemned might perhaps be beneficially made use of, and the new Act authorises the purchase of vessels when the commanding officer may think it right to purchase them; but having had that option, he of course only purchased such vessels as were required; we had 60 odd vessels in 1839 before the court; what would the navy have done with all those vessels?

5278. Mr. Forster.] Had many of those vessels cargoes on board?—Yes.

5279. Chairman.] Should you think it would be advisable to sell the vessels under bond that they should not be employed in the slave trade for a certain period?—The law is now almost as stringent as any bond could be.

5280. In what way?—Dr. Madden seems to suppose that vessels may be fitted out in Sierra Leone, and may lie in British waters equipped for the slave trade; but any one at Sierra Leone would have told him that no vessel could possibly lie there equipped for the slave trade; the authorities are so particular, that even in many cases vessels were seized and brought before the court if they were supposed to have a few gallons too much water in them. There is an exceeding jealousy on the subject, as indeed appears by some of the papers which have been presented.

5281. Mr. Forster.] Before what court is a vessel, taken in British waters, equipped for the slave trade, brought; the Court of Admiralty or the Court of Mixed Commission?—If she is prosecuted under the Act of Parliament, she is prosecuted of course in the Vice-Admiralty Court.

5282. Is there not a rule on that subject, and are not all vessels taken in British waters on suspicion of being engaged in the slave trade prosecuted in the Admiralty Court?—No; it remains with the captor, if there is a treaty which will reach the vessel, to prosecute her under that treaty before the Mixed Commission Court, if she is a Spaniard or a Portuguese, or before the Admiralty Court, for a breach of the municipal law, because she violates both the treaty and the municipal law, and therefore he has the choice of the one court or the other.

5283. In your last evidence you spoke of a vessel captured of the name of Jack Wilding, at Accra, upon that ground; in which court was she prosecuted?—Before the Mixed Commission Court, but the captor had the option of prosecuting her before the Admiralty Court; the expenses are so much less in our court, and the proceedings so much more rapid, that he preferred bringing her before ours.

5284. Is not the evidence taken before the Mixed Commission Court transmitted to England?—Yes; and it is published by the Foreign Office.

5285. But the evidence in trials before the Vice-Admiralty Court is never made public?—It is not, and a very great disadvantage it is, for this reason: our ability to condemn many of the vessels that were condemned in 1839 depended very much upon evidence found on board vessels brought before the court; this evidence conclusively proved the employment in the slave trade of other vessels not then before us, which were afterwards captured. Now, all evidence of that kind, which might be made use of subsequently in the condemnation of other vessels, is completely shut up from the public or from general knowledge, by the proceedings before the Vice-Admiralty Court being never made public. In the Mixed Commission Court papers can be invoked by the proctor which have been filed in a particular case against another vessel that is subsequently prosecuted.

5286. Chairman.] Is there no advantage in the secrecy of such papers?—None whatever.

5287. The proceedings before the Mixed Commission Court are public in themselves, and are published afterwards?—The examinations are not public, but strictly private in the first instance, but they are read in open court at the trial of the vessel, and they are sent home to the Foreign Office; an abstract of the evidence of every witness is given.

5288. The evidence taken before the Vice-Admiralty Court is not published in any way?—No.

5289. Is it communicated to the Mixed Commission?—No.

5290. Mr. Aldam.] Are the proceedings of the Vice-Admiralty Court there carried on in the same form as the proceedings of the Admiralty Court here?—Yes, very much the same.

5291. With any greater degree of secrecy?—No, but here the public papers publish them; we have no newspapers there to publish accounts of the proceedings.

5292. Chairman.] Would there be an advantage if the proceedings of the Vice-Admiralty Court were always communicated to the Mixed Commission?—Yes; and I recommended at the time when vessels began to go so frequently to the Vice-Admiralty Court, in 1839, that we should be informed of the papers filed in that court.

5293. Would there be any difficulty or objection to that?—There is no establishment of clerks connected with the Vice-Admiralty Court to supply copies at all, and it is not the custom of the judge of the Vice-Admiralty Court to report his proceedings home.

5294. Mr. Evans.] Do you think that the Mixed Commission Court has sufficient power for the objects for which it is instituted?—I think that they have. They have been rather shy of exercising it sometimes, but I believe that they do possess much more power than they ever exercised.

5295. You have no improvement in the court to suggest?—No. There seemed to be a deficiency of authority in the marshal a short time ago; but that was supplied by a local Act, which gave him all the power which the marshal of the Vice-Admiralty Court possesses.

5296. Chairman.] It is stated by Dr. Madden, in page 14, that the new interests which he supposes to be created in the minds of the British residents, especially in the minds of the liberated negroes, “have a very unfavourable influence upon them when employed in public situations, or called upon to act as petty juries in our courts.” He states, “if the case is one which involves the interest of a slave dealer, no matter what his nation, the disposition of a jury thus composed is invariably to give a verdict in favour of the slave trader, unless the chief justice should take extraordinary pains to make them do their duty honestly and impartially.” Do you know instances in which this has operated?—No; I believe it never operated in any case.

5297. What are the cases in which slave dealers come before juries in Sierra Leone?—Slave dealers have come before them, and been convicted and executed; I never knew an instance of a man who ought to have been convicted escaping.

5298. He mentions here an instance of a vessel, the Gollupchik, being captured and being sold, and becoming the property of certain London merchants, and being again sent out with a cargo of goods for the slave trade factories of Gallinas, under British colours, and commanded by a British subject. “The vessel,” he says, “was condemned by the Mixed Court of Justice at Sierra Leone, and the English captain was committed for trial at the ensuing assizes. The grand jury found a true bill against this man on the clearest evidence, but the petty jury, all of whom were persons of colour, returned an unanimous verdict of acquittal, which was received by the coloured persons in the court, and by some others of similar sentiments, with decided tokens of approbation.” Are you acquainted with that case?—Not at all; without knowing the case it would be impossible to say whether the jury were right or wrong; I have known cases where they have discharged persons accused of slave dealing, and where they were right. In the case referred to by Mr. Hartung of the Echo, the jury thought that the prisoner was not liable to conviction; but I never knew in my time any man who ought to have been convicted of slave dealing escape.

5299. Generally speaking, did you find the coloured juries do their duty in all cases?—Certainly; they do their duty very well.

5300. Mr. W. Patten.] Is it from any particular class that juries are selected?—The grand juries are selected from the most respectable inhabitants of Freetown, and the petty juries from shopkeepers and the reputable class of traders.

5301. Viscount Courtenay.] Who selects them?—The sheriff.

5302. Chairman.]—Has the office of chief justice been frequently vacant?—It has been vacant several times since I was in the colony, and an acting chief justice has been appointed.

5303. Who has acted in the interval?—During one interval, Mr. Melville, who was Queen’s advocate at the time, and Mr. Carr, who was also Queen’s advocate, and who is now chief justice, officiated on another occasion.

5304. Were they gentlemen who had a legal education?—Both of those persons had; but there were two other instances in which the office was held by men who had no legal education; once by a merchant, and a second time by the collector of customs.

5305. Was that under the necessity of the case?—Yes.

5306. Mr. Forster.] How long did the collector of customs hold that office?—A very long time; he held it from the death of Chief Justice Rankin until the appointment of Mr. Carr as chief justice, which was probably a year and a half after.

5307. Mr. W. Patten.] Do you know what year it was in?—From August 1839 till, I think, the end of 1840, or the beginning of 1841.

5308. Mr. Forster.] It is a part of the duty of the chief justice to deliver the gaol at the Gambia, is it not?—Yes.

5309. Are you aware whether the acting chief justice visited the Gambia for that purpose during the 18 months in question?—Certainly; while I was there Mr. Hook visited it.

5310. Do you know how frequently, in each year, it is the duty of the chief justice to deliver the gaol of the Gambia?—There is no time appointed; but I consider it a great disadvantage both to the Gambia and Sierra Leone, having only one chief justice for the two places.

5311. You are not aware whether the Gambia has not been left for a period of 12 months without a gaol delivery?—No; I think it is possible that it might be the case between the early part of 1838 and 1839, or between the beginning of 1839 and the beginning of 1840. There is very great difficulty in getting any person in a colony like that to fill the situation of chief justice, I mean from among the residents in the colony.

5312. Are you aware of the cause of the office having been vacant for the period of 18 months?—No, not at all; I suppose that the Colonial Government could not find a proper person to send out. One barrister who was appointed was drowned before he reached Sierra Leone.

5313. You are not aware that the applications have generally been extremely numerous for that office whenever it has become vacant?—No.

5314. Mr. Aldam.] What is the system of criminal law in force in the colonies?—The law of England.

5315. Is it modified at all?—Very little; if it is modified, it is modified by local Acts passed by the Governor and Council.

5316. Mr. Evans.] Do you think it a good thing to appoint men of colour to such high offices as those of chief justice or Governor, in any colony where many English gentlemen reside?—Certainly, if they are fit for the situations; but at Sierra Leone there is no feeling whatever except amongst one or two individuals, on the subject of colour; indeed I believe that the most popular man at the present time, and almost during the whole time when I was there, was a man of colour, and who was afterwards Lieutenant-governor; that was Dr. Ferguson, a man, I believe, universally beloved there.

5317. Mr. Forster.] Do you think that the natives have the same confidence and respect for a person of that description, as for a white officer?—I think so; at Sierra Leone, certainly.

5318. Mr. Aldam.] Practically, do you find a great number of men of colour who are fit to fill high situations in the colony?—There are not so many men of colour as white men fit to fill the high situations; but some of the highest situations have been filled in my time by men of colour, and well filled.

5319. Mr. W. Patten.] Have you any other observation which you wish to make upon Dr. Madden’s Report?—At page 28, on “The result of the efforts at present in use for the suppression of the slave trade,” Dr. Madden mentions “The disappointment the captors experience at seeing all their arduous efforts for hindering the slave trade factories from receiving their supplies from the foreign vessels engaged in this trade completely nullified by the proceedings of our own merchants and commanders of merchant-vessels, who supply them with the identical goods and stores which they capture the foreign vessels for conveying to the coast.” Now I wish particularly, with reference to that statement, to say, that foreign vessels are never captured for having goods of any description on board of them. There appears to have been some error entertained as to the grounds on which the vessel called the Dos Amigos, which has been mentioned before, was condemned. That vessel was condemned at Sierra Leone, and in the report which the Commissioners made to Government, they stated that the Dos Amigos had been allowed to lie in Cape Coast Roads fully equipped for the slave trade. It seems to have been supposed that our complaint was, that she was carrying goods for the supply of the slave trade; but no vessel, either British or foreign, has ever been condemned at Sierra Leone on account of the description of goods that she was carrying.

5320. What is the object which you have in calling the attention of the Committee to that statement; is it to deny that statement?—There is a good deal of evidence in the papers before the Committee on the case of the Dos Amigos. The impression seems to have been, that the complaint of the mixed commission court at Sierra Leone against the Governor of Cape Coast Castle, was, that he allowed a vessel to trade at Cape Coast, which was afterwards captured there as a slave trader. Now the ground of complaint was quite distinct, namely, that he allowed a vessel with equipments on board for the slave trade to be in a British harbour with impunity; it had nothing to do with the goods whatever.

5321. Chairman.] You do not believe that it would be lawful to seize and condemn a foreign vessel for conveying to a slave trader goods and stores that are not included in the equipment article?—I do not.

5322. Therefore the expression is incorrect that our commanders of British cruizers must “experience disappointment at seeing all their arduous efforts for hindering the slave trade factories from receiving their supplies from the foreign vessels engaged in this trade completely nullified by the proceedings of our own merchants and commanders of merchant vessels who supply them with the identical goods and stores, which they capture the foreign vessels for conveying to the coast”?—It is impossible that they can feel disappointment about what never happened.

5323. Mr. W. Patten.] Is it your opinion that the law can be altered upon this subject for the better?—I think not; any alteration would, I think, be for the worse. In the next paragraph Dr. Madden states, that he considers it would be desirable that the men-of-war vessels on the coast should only be employed two years. I do not think that any naval officer would agree with him in that respect; it is not till they have been two years on the coast that they become acquainted with the arts of the slave dealers, and thoroughly efficient in the suppression of the slave trade.

5324. In short, it requires considerable experience to ascertain the best means of capturing the slavers?—Certainly; but on all questions relating to service on the coast I would recommend that a naval officer should be examined.

5325. Chairman.] Dr. Madden suggests, “that instead of head-money, or the bounty of 5l. paid for the capture of each slave, the pay of men and officers should be doubled, and the promotion of the former advanced in proportion to the time of service required for it on any other station in a double ratio.” Are you of opinion that any inconvenience arises from the present system of head-money?—I do not think any inconvenience has been found to arise; it was supposed at one time, and stated rather positively in the House of Lords, that such an effect had been produced, but a refutation of the statement was given the same year, for instead of full vessels being taken, there was not one out of 20 that was taken with slaves on board.

5326. You think that the remuneration to the officers is put upon the best and fairest footing now?—I would not say that, because I think the officers are not remunerated sufficiently for empty vessels at present; the sum received for the capture of an empty vessel is so very small, and the sum received for the capture of a full vessel so much larger, that there is no comparison whatever between the two cases; and there is more good done by the capture of an empty vessel, and the service is just as arduous.

5327. Have you ever thought of any other system that could be adopted?—I have suggested an alteration of the bounties on this scale. It appeared that about three times as many vessels were captured under the equipment treaties, as were formerly taken, when only vessels full of slaves were allowed to be captured; and I thought that the remuneration for an empty vessel should be so calculated, that it should amount to about one-third of what the officer would receive if he took a full vessel with the average number of slaves on board. There would be no difficulty in making the calculation, and it would be only fair to the officers to give them that advantage.

5328. No such alteration has been made?—No.

5329. Mr. W. Patten.] You would not diminish the head-money to officers when they captured a vessel full of slaves?—No; it has been diminished very greatly the last 12 years, from 10l. to 5l. a head.

5330. What would be the effect of putting all vessels on the same footing, whether having slaves on board or being empty?—There would be no difficulty.

5331. Chairman.] Would it not be fairer to make the remuneration independent of the casual circumstance of whether the vessel was full or empty?—Yes; it would be taking away the advantage which the officers now enjoy with full vessels, but I think it would be a fair thing.

5332. Mr. Forster.] Are officers entitled to the head-money on slaves taken on shore?—No; the difficulty in that case is, that when taken on shore they are British subjects, if they are taken in British territory, and the British law will not acknowledge that they could be slaves. The difficulty was found some time ago, when a naval officer went to Bulama and captured several hundred slaves who were detained there by the Portuguese; he proceeded in the Admiralty Court, but the judge said, These men are not slaves, they are taken on British territory. The British law will not allow that any person can be a slave on British soil; so that the captor was deprived of his head-money.

5333. A considerable number was taken at the Gallinas by Captain Denman?—Yes.

5334. Will Captain Denman be entitled to head-money upon those persons so captured?—He has never received any thing for them, but I hope he may; if there is any fund from which remuneration on the ordinary scale can be granted, it would be desirable that such cases should be dealt with in the same manner as they would be if brought under the terms of the Act.

5335. Mr. Evans.] If the remuneration was on the tonnage of the vessel, supposing it was on the same scale as it is now, would that be a just way of taking it?—Yes; a remuneration on the tonnage, whether full or empty, would be fair, but the scale should be very much raised; at present it is miserably low.

5336. I am supposing that it was raised to the average of the present remuneration for capturing full and empty vessels?—That would be an improvement.

5337. Mr. W. Patten.] Is there not more difficulty in capturing a vessel with slaves on board than in capturing an empty vessel?—There is much less difficulty in capturing a vessel with slaves on board.

5338. Are not more exertions used when a vessel has slaves on board?—They run away in both cases; but the vessel is impeded greatly whilst she has her cargo of slaves on board, and there is more chance of capture, and the chase is less likely to be long, than with an empty vessel.

5339. Chairman.] The security of condemnation is greater?—Yes.

5340. You stated that there was a difficulty in remunerating the officers when slaves were taken on shore, on the ground of their being considered as British subjects; does that apply to Gallinas?—No; the question did not apply there, but to Bulama, because we claimed the sovereignty of that island. There is no remuneration, under any Act of Parliament, for slaves released under those circumstances which occurred at the Gallinas.

5341. Might there not be some question altogether, whether the release of slaves on shore was within the proper functions of a cruizer?—There might, under some circumstances; but in the case referred to it was a voluntary act on the part of the chief of the country releasing those slaves; they were detained there by persons whom the chief considered as his enemies, by whom he was kept in control, and he was relieved from their control by the Wanderer. There was a positive application made by the chief of the country.

5342. Then it was not, properly speaking, a duty imposed upon the commander engaged upon that station?—No, it would be only a duty under peculiar circumstances.

5343. Therefore such a practice would naturally not be contemplated by any Act of Parliament?—No.

5344. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider the chiefs of the Gallinas opposed to the slave trade?—No.

5345. How did they happen to apply for relief against the slave dealers?—An illegal act had been committed by those chiefs on the subjects of Sierra Leone, and when redress was demanded the excuse offered by the chiefs was, that they were held in subjection by the resident Spaniards there, and that they could not afford the relief which was required by British subjects, or even prevent British subjects being carried into slavery, in consequence of the control which was exercised over them by the Spanish and Portuguese slave traders.

5346. Do you yourself believe that excuse to be true?—I believe that it was stated; I have no means of judging of its truth.

5347. Chairman.] It was a justification for the interference of Captain Denman?—Exactly. By the papers presented to Parliament it appeared that some women and children at Sierra Leone, as far as I recollect the case, were taken down to the Gallinas, and were known to be there, and Captain Denman was instructed by the Governor of Sierra Leone to go in and demand their liberation, and also to remonstrate with the chiefs for the offence which had been committed; and also to inquire how it was that British men-of-war boats going into the river were refused all supplies, were not allowed to water, and were even prevented having intercourse with American and other vessels lying in the river. The principal chief then complained of the treatment which he received from the Spaniards and Portuguese, and he requested to be released from their control, and Captain Denman complied with his request.

5348. Mr. Aldam.] Were there any British subjects found among the slaves captured at the Gallinas?—None that I am aware of, except those particular ones that Captain Denman demanded, and whom he recovered.

5349. Chairman.] Do you believe that there are any instances of kidnapping out of the territory of Sierra Leone?—Very few.

At page 34 of Dr. Madden’s Report, there is this passage: “The charges made for the disposal of these effects,” that is, goods sold by public auction, “the captors state, and I believe with truth, are extremely heavy; and in many cases more than half the prize money that the captors had reason to expect, is swallowed up in the charges made by the various officers at Sierra Leone, employed in taking care, and ultimately disposing of, the effects of the captured vessel. On the following cases of slave-trade vessels sent in for adjudication to the Commission Courts at Sierra Leone, by Captain Tucker, of Her Majesty’s ship Wolverine, the charges here detailed were made.” Then follows the schedule; five out of the nine vessels mentioned in that schedule were sold, while I was in the court, and with respect to those five I obtained the heads of the charges yesterday from the Foreign Office. The Vigilante is the first; the charges were 99l. 1s. 4d., and in that case the sum paid to the collector of customs for duty was 18l. In the Pampeiro, the charges were 63l., the duty was 12l. In the Passos, the charges were 22l. 8s., and the proceeds very small; but in that case the vessel was destroyed at Prince’s Island, and there were also slaves on board, and the whole of those charges, for the vessel was only in port a few days, consisted of the feeding of the slaves, and the duty on the goods which were found on board, and the marshal’s expenses. The reason of the small amount of proceeds was, that there was no vessel, and only a few goods that were brought up in the man-of-war; only a few pieces of cloth, and such things. In the case of the Firmeza, the charges were 1,014l. 7s. 5d., but of that sum the duty paid to the customs was 775l., and the translations were 18l.; so that about 800l. was paid by the marshal on those accounts out of 1,014l.

5350. Mr. W. Patten.] The translations do not then appear to be of that onerous nature to the captor, which Dr. Madden, in the previous part of his statement, says that they are?—They are very heavy in some cases: I have known them as high as 60l. and 70l. In the Emprendador the expenses are 351l. 19s. 1d.; of that sum 172l. was paid in duty, and 33l. in translations, making 205l. out of 351l. Then the other expenses are the five per cent. to the auctioneer, the marshal’s charges for taking charge of the vessel, and boats and labourers landing cargo, and also a premium of about six or six and-one-eighth per cent. difference between the English money and the currency.

5351. Viscount Courtenay.] Are those fees fixed by a scale settled by the court?—The fees were fixed by a regular scale, that has been drawn up on the model of the schedule of fees paid in the Vice-Admiralty Courts, which was approved of by Dr. Lushington and two other gentlemen connected with the Admiralty Court in England, and which schedule was sent out to all the Vice-Admiralty Courts of our colonies, as the rule by which they were to be guided. In many cases our charges were less; but in no case, I believe, were they more than directed in that schedule.

5352. Chairman.] Since those heavy charges which are alluded to by Dr. Madden have been incurred, the duties, which are one principal source of expense, have been modified according to your recommendation?—They have.

5353. What would have been the result of the reduction in that case of the Firmeza, where the duties appear to have been 775l.?—The reduction would have been very great indeed. Without knowing on what articles the duty was imposed, I cannot say; but the duty was changed from a fixed to an ad valorem duty; and in the case of the tobacco and spirits of that vessel, the reduction would have been very great; probably it would have struck off 500l. at least of the 775l.

5354. That evil, therefore, is met to a considerable degree?—The evil is met as much as can be expected; indeed, I do not think that there is any thing whatever now that the captors have to complain of.

5355. It cannot be expected that the goods should be sold for the benefit of the captor, free of duty, in a colony where other articles imported pay duty?—No, certainly not.

5356. Viscount Courtenay.] Is it in the power of the proctors to make additional charges upon those parties?—The arrangement between the proctor and the captor is left to themselves; the court attempted once to interfere with the charges of the proctors, but they were instructed that it was a matter which they had no control over.

5357. Is that settled by a certain rule of etiquette?—It is settled by practice; there is a certain charge that is made for every vessel now, whether she is troublesome or not; but it is a matter over which the court can have no control whatever.

5358. Are the proctors Europeans?—There have seldom been more than three or four at one time practising.

5359. Chairman.] Are they men of education?—Yes; the Queen’s advocate is generally one, and the one who gets the most practice; and there are others who are practising attornies in the other courts, who act as proctors in the Mixed Commission Court.

5360. Are they universally Europeans, educated in England?—I believe every one has been educated in England, and is an European; there is one of them that was born in the West Indies, I believe, but educated in England.

5361. Mr. Forster.] Have the officers of the Mixed Commission the patronage of any of the appointments on the spot?—Of all.

5362. Chairman.] Do they appoint the proctor?—The proctor petitions to be admitted; and latterly, for the last year or two that I was there, I made them undergo an examination, for I found that one or two were applying to be admitted as proctors of the court in order to escape serving on juries, and I therefore made them submit to an examination on the treaties, and on the decisions of the Mixed Courts, and it checked the practice.

5363. At what time were those charges made which are specified in Dr. Madden’s Report?—The five cases out of the nine that I have referred to occurred in 1839, the others subsequently to my leaving the colony.

5364. When were those modifications made which would affect the statement which Dr. Madden has made?—They came into effect after the five cases occurred on which there are those high charges; they came into effect in December, 1839.

5365. Previously to Dr. Madden’s visit to Sierra Leone?—Yes, some time previously.

5366. Have you any further observations to make upon Dr. Madden’s Report?—In page 35 is a passage to which I was referred at the last examination: “The intervention of the whole present establishment of marshals, collectors, surveyors, interpreters, harbour-masters, agents, storekeepers, canoe-hirers, and victuallers of captured ships’ crews, might be dispensed with without inconvenience to the public, and with some advantage to the individuals who are interested in the disposal of the effects.” A great many of those persons do not exist in connexion with our court at all.

5367. Can you state what is the real establishment connected with the adjudication of slave vessels?—There is one marshal; he is paid by fees, on the principle of the schedule that was drawn up in England for the regulation of the Vice-Admiralty Courts in the colonies, and which are very low, I think almost too low; the collector we have nothing to do with; he is the Queen’s officer: as regards the surveyors, we have two surveyors in cases of vessels which are prosecuted for equipment to examine the equipment of the vessel, and to report, and they get a fee for that examination; in cases of vessels taken full of slaves no surveyors are required; it is only in cases of vessels seized for equipment.

5368. That is an officer absolutely necessary for the ascertainment of the facts?—Yes, because we could not allow a man to give evidence in his own case upon such a point as that.

5369. What is the fee?—I think the fee is two guineas a day during his employment; and in order to obtain the services of a respectable man who will go through the disagreeable duty which is imposed upon him in examining a vessel equipped for the slave trade, overhauling her in every part, and whose testimony can be positively relied upon, I do not think that a smaller fee ought to be paid.

5370. Does the survey occupy more than one day?—If it occupies more than a day, he gets another two guineas, but I do not recollect any case of that kind.

5371. What is the interpreter?—There is one interpreter, who interprets between the witness and the registrar when the witness speaks in a foreign language, and I believe he gets 5s. on an examination; he is a poor man; it is very trifling.

5372. Is the harbour-master an officer of the court?—No. Agents we have none. There is no storekeeper; the marshal lands the goods, and under some peculiar circumstances, where they have to be held over for sale, they may be stored, but I think such a thing has hardly occurred in my time.

5373. Canoe-hirers, who are those?—There are canoes employed to land the cargo.

5374. That is a duty which must be discharged and paid for at the ordinary rate in the colony?—Yes.

5375. “Victuallers of captured ships’ crews,” who are those?—We have no such men; the marshal victuals the ship’s crew at the regular rate laid down, 3s. for the officers and 2s. for the men; there are generally only three persons in each case thus provided for.

5376. Is that any thing beyond the absolute expense necessary for the object?—You cannot in a colony where food is so dear lodge and feed an European in a respectable line of life for less than 3s. a day.

5377. Mr. W. Patten.] Would you recommend the uniting of any of those offices together?—The only three officers we have are the marshal, the surveyor, and the commissioner of appraisement and sale, who is not mentioned here, and their offices cannot be united.

5378. Chairman.] Dr. Madden recommended that “the effects of the captured vessel, prior to adjudication should remain in them under the charge of the captors”?—They always do remain in the vessel; Dr. Madden mentions this as a change that ought to take place, but nobody ever thought of landing a vessel’s goods before condemnation, because if the vessel is restored she goes out with all the goods in her. He then says, “On condemnation they should be delivered over by the captors to the collector of the customs, and this part of his service be included in the remuneration of his general duties.” The court could have no control over the collector of the customs, and how he would perform the duty more cheaply than the marshal I do not know; those goods must be landed under the control of the court, and kept under the control of the court till they are sold.

5379. What are the charges on the sale which are alluded to?—The custom-house duties and the auction duty, and those already mentioned.

5380. The custom-house duties are the duties which you alluded to as having been subsequently reduced?—Yes.

5381. Which did press upon the goods in proportion to their quality?—Yes; Dr. Madden says in the last sentence, “I beg to be understood as not meaning to attribute, in the slightest degree, to these gentlemen the disadvantages of the system that is adopted for the disposal of the effects of the condemned vessel. This system has grown up to its present amount of abuse, I believe, without their sanction, and I should think, from what I have seen of these gentlemen, it exists without their approval.” It does not; if there had been any abuse I should have been responsible for it, of course, during the time that I was there; but I believe no abuse whatever existed which the court could control. In the case of translations, we had no translator till we applied to the Government, and indeed the necessity did not arise till lately, because when you could only capture vessels full of slaves, you did not require any translations; I believe there is no abuse whatever, and it certainly is not without the sanction of the court, if it exists.

5382. Viscount Courtenay.] Is there any storehouse belonging to the Vice-Admiralty Court, where goods, supposing them to be of a suspicious character, if landed, are kept?—There is a storehouse connected with the mixed commissions, where the coppers and shackles, and the iron fittings for the open hatchways, are lodged.

5383. Under whose charge is that?—It is in the residence of the registrar; the registrar is required to be a resident officer, on account not only of the books and papers which he has constantly under his charge, but on account of the equipments of condemned vessels, which are also kept by him.

5384. It would be, therefore, very irregular that any of those equipments should be kept in any place but under the custody of the registrar?—Certainly.

5385. Supposing this to have been stated, that a number of leg-irons and other things, which had been landed from a slave vessel condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court, had been deposited in a public shed on the wharf, and that they had been neglected by the officer of the Vice-Admiralty Court, whose duty it was to have put them in a place of safety; if that was so, should you say that that was irregular and unusual?—It cannot happen in our court; if such a thing were to happen, the marshal would be immediately dismissed; but the thing never happens, because there is a regular system of duty; but the Vice-Admiralty Court has no office, it has no storekeeper, and no means of carrying on its duty efficiently.

5386. What would have been the regular course in such a case as that mentioned in this paper?—I do not know what course the Vice-Admiralty Court would pursue, but with us, equipment articles are landed and carried up to the registrar. There were several rooms, when I left, completely filled with these things, and occasionally, when the Government requires coppers for the use of the Liberated African Department, we hand them over to them, and they are supplied to vessels carrying over recruits to the West Indies; but in no case do the coppers from the condemned vessels go to anybody that we do not know will make a good use of them.

5387. Is the same person that is marshal of the Mixed Commission Court marshal of the Vice-Admiralty Court?—No; it is a rule that is laid down very strictly, not to allow any sort of connexion between the two courts, as it would only produce irregularity and confusion.

5388. Chairman.] Have you any other observation to make upon Dr. Madden’s Report?—In the last sentence of his Report he says, that parties should not be allowed to become purchasers of slave ships, or the equipments of condemned slavers, unless they “enter into a bond that such ships or equipments shall not be employed in slave trade objects, on pain of incurring the penalty of fine to the amount of double the value of the property thus employed.” Now the Act of Parliament positively requires, that if any equipments are on board a vessel, a bond shall be given, and that no vessel shall be cleared out by the custom-house unless a bond is given.

5389. Is there any thing in the present state of the law which makes it illegal to sell a vessel bought at Sierra Leone immediately into the hands of a person who shall employ her in the slave trade?—Nothing whatever.

5390. Mr. W. Patten.] Is there not an Act of Parliament which does prevent any body knowingly dealing with a slave dealer?—Yes, there is; but the difficulty would be to prove the guilty knowledge of the fact, that the man to whom the vessel is sold intended to employ that vessel in the slave trade.

5391. Mr. Forster.] What Act of Parliament do you allude to when you say that there is an Act which forbids persons selling a vessel or goods to slave dealers?—The 5 Geo. 4, c. 113.

5392. Mr. W. Patten.] In that Act of Parliament, does the word “knowingly” apply to knowledge of the fact that the parties are slave dealers, or of the fact that the goods so sold are to be employed in the slave trade?—To the latter. The second clause of that Act declares that it shall not be lawful to ship, tranship, and so on, or to contract for the shipping or transhipping to be employed in accomplishing any of the objects or the contracts in relation to the objects, which objects and contracts have hereinbefore been declared unlawful; but by the 7th and 10th clauses penalties are imposed only upon a party upon its being shown that he “knowingly and wilfully” shipped and laded goods to be employed in the slave trade.

5393. It does not apply to his knowledge of the fact of the man being a dealer in slaves?—I am not aware that it does; a great deal may come under the general term of “aiding and abetting” the slave trade; but in all the penal clauses of that Act the words “knowingly and wilfully” are introduced.

5394. How do you account for the governor of a British colony commencing his proclamation with these words: “Whereas by the laws of Great Britain, and more particularly by the provisions of the Act of Parliament passed in the fifth year of the reign of his late Majesty George the Fourth, all British subjects are prohibited in the most express and positive terms, and under the most severe penalties, from aiding, abetting, or trading with, directly or indirectly, all or any vessels or vessel engaged, or about to be engaged, in the slave trade, or fitted with that view and purpose”?—The prohibitory clauses of the Act are very strong indeed; they would seem to comprehend every kind of dealing with slave traders; but it is the penal clauses which would prevent convictions.

5395. Chairman.] If you could convict the party selling the vessel to the slave dealer with a guilty knowledge of the purpose to which the vessel was to be appropriated, you have in the Act of Parliament all that can be required?—Yes.

5396. Mr. W. Patten.] Does the same observation apply to goods?—To every part of the Act. I believe in every instance where prohibitions are given in the Act the penal clauses referring to the prohibition contain the words “knowingly and wilfully.”

5397. Chairman.] Therefore those acts are all of them unlawful, but the difficulty is in proving the guilt?—Yes. You may possibly prove the guilty knowledge by letters found on board the vessel.

5398. If you could ascertain that any merchant at Sierra Leone sold vessels or goods to a party, knowing that such vessel was to be employed in the slave trade, he might be convicted under the Act of Parliament?—Yes; he would be prosecuted and convicted under the 5th of Geo. 4.

5399. Mr. W. Patten.] Should you imply that this was guilty knowledge, that the vessel should be sold to a notorious slave dealer on any part of the coast, who was perfectly known to have no legitimate traffic of his own?—That is a legal question which would be decided in the common law courts, whether a guilty knowledge might be implied from particular circumstances, though it could not be proved directly.

5400. Mr. Forster.] You have given an opinion upon the construction of the words “knowingly and wilfully” used in the Act of Parliament; upon what authority have you given that opinion?—The Act cannot be misunderstood; I think no person can read it without seeing the meaning of it, whether lawyer or not.

5401. To sell goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco, for example, would that, in your opinion, bring a party within the meaning of the Act?—No, not unless you could prove that he sold them knowing that they were to be applied to an unlawful purpose.

5402. Chairman.] The difficulty, then, is not in understanding the purpose and object of the Act, but in proving the offence?—Yes; the difficulty is in proving the guilty knowledge, and that is the only difficulty.

5403. Sir T. D. Acland.] Was not the principal design of that Act to prevent persons from aiding in fitting up vessels for the direct and notorious purpose of engaging in the slave trade, and for no other purpose?—Yes, it was one object.

5404. Therefore, would not any person selling shackles, or any thing else that was notoriously employed in procuring slaves, or in exchange for slaves, be brought under the Act?—If you could prove that at the time he made them he contemplated that they would be employed in the slave trade, he would be brought within the purpose of the Act.

5405. If he sold shackles to vessels engaged in the slave trade?—I should think he would be brought within it then, because the guilty knowledge would be properly inferred in that case; but shackles may be made in England, and kept on board merchant vessels to be employed on the crew.

5406. Mr. Forster.] You do not think, then, that the intention of that Act was to prevent British subjects and British capital from being engaged in partnership, or having an interest in the slave trade itself, and nothing beyond that?—Yes, I think the intention of the Act was to prevent such engagements.

5407. Do you think that it goes beyond that?—I think that is all we require, that they should have no connexion with the traffic.

5408. How would you bring the party within that Act who sold goods, having no interest or partnership in the transaction to which they were subsequently applied?—In that case I think the Act would not reach him.

5409. What becomes, then, of the guilty knowledge of which you have spoken so much?—No guilty knowledge can be proved against the party in the case you suppose.

5410. Chairman.] But it may exist?—Yes, it may exist; but unless you can prove it, the penalties of the Act would not reach him.

5411. Do you conceive that the act of selling a vessel or goods that may be hereafter employed, or that shall be, to the knowledge of the person selling them, employed in the slave trade, falls within the meaning of the Act, unless that person is to have a share in the profits of the transaction?—Yes, I believe it does include that; I think that it forbids aiding and assisting in every way, even as servants, or employed in boats.

5412. Mr. Forster.] Then you think that a British subject selling goods to Pedro Blanco, or any other slave dealer, with the impression on his mind, or, in fact, the conviction on his mind, that those goods would be employed in the slave trade, would come within the meaning of that Act?—Yes certainly; but the difficulty would be in the proof of the guilty knowledge. Such an act as that is certainly intended to come within the Act; not that I would recommend that those words, “knowingly and wilfully,” should be taken out entirely; I think it might be a dangerous thing to do so; but I am speaking of what, in my opinion, the meaning of the Act is, namely, that it is absolutely necessary in every case to prove the guilty knowledge, in order to bring the party accused within the penalties of the Act.

5413. In what way would you prove the mental impression upon the man’s mind?—There is the difficulty.

5414. Do you think that any British Act of Parliament would impose penalties for the mental impression upon a man’s mind?—I have stated that I am not prepared to say whether or not the words “knowingly and wilfully” might be advantageously omitted from the Act, but a guilty knowledge may be inferred from particular circumstances.

5415. Then you consider that that Act of Parliament is an Act against constructive slave trading?—No.

5416. Chairman.] You consider it to be an Act against aiding and abetting the slave trade in as many ways as the Act of Parliament can reach it?—Yes; there is no Act that I ever read that is so general and comprehensive in its terms; but unfortunately it is limited, as it must be limited, in its application.

5417. Mr. Forster.] Can you quote the authority of any British lawyer for the opinions you have expressed with respect to the construction of that Act?—Yes, I have heard opinions expressed on the subject from the Bench at Sierra Leone repeatedly, and by educated lawyers.

5418. In the case of a British merchant selling goods to a person who was known to have no other means of gaining his livelihood, except by the slave trade, the party selling the goods would in your opinion be liable to the penalties of that Act?—It is the same thing in that case; you must prove guilty knowledge, direct or implied.

5419. In selling goods to a man who has no other means of gaining his livelihood than by applying those goods for the purposes of the slave trade, there can be no doubt of the guilty knowledge?—I should think not; but if I were a juror I should have to satisfy my own conscience that there was a guilty knowledge. I am no lawyer; this is only the opinion of a private person.

5420. Can you conceive a stronger proof of guilty knowledge than such a transaction as that would furnish?—I think I should decide that there was a guilty knowledge, taking the case supposed, that the seller knew there was no other way in which the purchaser would employ the goods sold to him than in the slave trade; if I were a juror I think I should find him guilty in that case under the Act of Parliament; I should consider the guilty knowledge to be proved.

5421. Chairman.] You appear to be in favour of the proposal for taking bond from the person selling the vessel, that such vessel shall not be employed within a certain period in the slave trade?—That they should take bond that the vessel should not be immediately sold to a slave dealer; but the difficulty would be in following the vessel through successive transfers.

5422. Can you suggest any means of so framing that bond as to escape the difficulty which pervades the enforcing the provisions of the existing Act of Parliament, on account of the necessity of establishing guilty knowledge?—I think I could to a certain extent. The case once came before me at Sierra Leone; I was consulted by one of the officers of the Mixed Commission Court on the subject of the sale of a vessel of his; he knew perfectly well that if he had sold that vessel to a slave dealer, we should immediately dismiss him from his situation, and he came to consult me respecting the person who had offered to buy the vessel. He had inquired about him, and there was some sort of suspicion, and I told him that I could not allow him, as an officer of the court, to sell this vessel to that person, unless he took bond to a sufficient amount that the vessel should not be sold again to a slave dealer, so that if the vessel, whilst in the possession of the person to whom he sold her, should be captured, the bond should be considered as violated, and he should be liable to the penalty. But I do not think you can carry the restriction beyond the first purchaser: but if the vessel, whilst in the hands of the first purchaser, should be seized for slave dealing, the penalty of the bond might be enforced.

5423. But would you not find it difficult to make that effective, from the facility that exists for the transfer of the vessel to other parties?—Yes; I do not think the restriction could be carried beyond the first purchaser.

5424. Would reaching the first purchaser be any great additional difficulty in the way of employing the prize vessels in the slave trade?—It would in Sierra Leone be a difficulty to some small extent; because, where only one or two persons are engaged in purchasing vessels to be afterwards sold to slave dealers, it is not likely that there would be any intermediate person between the seller and the Spanish or Portuguese purchaser at Gallinas, or any slave station in the neighbourhood.

5425. Would it not be very easy to establish a system of third persons acting as a medium between the slave dealer and the purchaser, who should protect the purchaser at the prize sale from the penalties of such a bond?—It might be done; but the difficulty would in that case be, to get two men to endure the odium of such employment; the difficulty would be doubled.

5426. Could not a vessel be sold to a subordinate party at Sherboro’ or Gallinas, not the slave dealer, but the agent of the slave dealer, who might be compelled immediately to hand over the vessel to the slave dealer?—It might be done.

5427. Mr. Forster.] Would you propose, by bond or otherwise, to make it illegal that the purchaser of a prize vessel at Sierra Leone should sell that vessel, on her arrival in London, to the Spanish merchants Messrs. Zulueta & Co.?—No; I would not certainly render it illegal.

5428. Then that being your opinion, in what way can you imagine any restriction to be devised for the purpose of regulating the sales of the vessels after they may be purchased at Sierra Leone?—I have mentioned that the restriction could only last, in my opinion, whilst the vessel remained in the hands of the second purchaser; that is, the person who purchases her from the highest bidder at the auction; I do not think you could follow her beyond that.

5429. Then you would prevent the actual purchaser at Sierra Leone from selling the vessel to Messrs. Zulueta & Co. in London?—No, I would not.

5430. Then where is the value of the restriction you would impose?—The value is this, and it is not of great value, that if that vessel, whilst sailing under the name of Zulueta & Co. is captured and condemned as being engaged in the slave trade, you will come upon the person who sold that vessel to Zulueta & Co. for the amount of the bond.

5431. You think it would be just to make the first purchaser of the vessel responsible for the subsequent employment of that vessel, after he had sold her to Messrs. Zulueta & Co.?—Yes, as long as it remained in the hands of Zulueta & Co.; and I would mention further, that an advantage which I did not perceive before would result from it, that the man who sells the vessel in the case supposed to Zulueta, would not be very happy under such a sale, unless he got a security from Zulueta for the amount of the bond, and in such a case, whenever doubtful characters came forward as purchasers, the amount of the bond would be an addition to the price paid for the vessel.

5432. When a prize vessel is brought into the public market in London, why should this vessel be subject to regulations different from any other vessel in the London market?—Because the vessel being purchased at Sierra Leone, at one of our sales, would be likely to be a vessel fitted for the slave trade, and for nothing else.

5433. But is it not well known that there are many vessels in the London market equally well adapted for that purpose as many of those vessels?—I think not.

5434. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you not think that if a bond were given under penalty of forfeiture, if in the course of a certain time, say one, two, or three years, that vessel were detected as being engaged in the slave trade, the party giving the bond would take very good care to keep her out of that mischief?—Yes, I think he would.

5435. Would he not take very good care that the vessel should not get into hands through which that risk could be brought upon himself?—He would be interested in doing so.

5436. Chairman.] Other parties would secure themselves upon each successive transfer by successive bonds to the amount of their own liability?—The amount of the bond might be more than the value of the vessel considerably.

5437. Mr. Forster.] Then the result of that would be that there must be a series of bonds running through all the subsequent sales of the vessel?—Yes.

5438. Mr. W. Patten.] You have stated that in your opinion the breaking up of all the vessels would be far preferable?—Yes, the breaking up of all the vessels would be one of the best things that could possibly be done.

5439. Chairman.] What proportion of the vessels that have been taken within your knowledge have been so broken up?—It is only since the Spanish treaty came into operation in 1836 that they have been broken up at all; since that time more than two-thirds of the vessels condemned have been broken up.

5440. Sir T. D. Acland.] Would it be possible to fix the bond upon the vessel itself?—No; I do not think it would.

5441. Chairman.] You have seen a good deal of the effects of British trade upon the coast of Africa, especially as connected with Sierra Leone?—I cannot say that I have seen very much, but I have seen something.

5442. You have seen that British manufactures are, to some extent at least, employed as instruments of barter for slaves?—Yes.

5443. Indirectly through Brazil and Cuba, and from England, goods are sold to persons who would use them in barter for slaves?—Yes.

5444. Therefore, to a certain extent, British trade gives facilities for the slave trade?—Yes.

5445. Do you conceive that it would be possible, with advantage to the cause of putting down the slave trade, to have any further restrictions upon British trade on the coast of Africa: do you believe that it would be advisable to prohibit absolutely dealing in lawful articles with slavers or with slave factories?—I consider it to be undesirable to impose any restrictions.

5446. Will you state your reasons?—I think that no restrictions whatever could be drawn up applying to any description of goods that might not materially interfere with the legitimate trade.

5447. And you believe that it would be a serious injury to the people of Africa, and to the cause of civilization in Africa, if lawful trade were interfered with and impeded?—I do; I would not have any restrictions whatever upon the commercial intercourse of our vessels, to which only of course our law would apply, with any port on the coast, whatever her character was with regard to slave trading.

5448. You conceive that although some additional facility to the slave trade may arise from the lawful traffic, on the balance much more good accrues?—I think so. I think there are positive advantages in gaining an entrance for our vessels to those ports where the slave trade is carried on: that information of the character of the people and of their mode of trade is obtained, and facilities offered to the squadron cruizing on the coast and visiting those rivers; and also that at any time, if, from the checks given to the slave trade by more stringent cruizing in that part, the natives should be desirous of turning their attention to lawful commerce, there are the means of doing it at once ready to their hands. It might happen anywhere that legitimate trade, from strict cruizing, would become a desirable one for the natives; but they would not have the means of carrying it on if British vessels were forbidden to enter those ports.

5449. Is it desirable that the natives should see a lawful trade offered to them by the parties and nations who are now connected with the unlawful traffic themselves?—I think it is.

5450. If you prohibited the access of English vessels and English trade to the suspected ports, should you be able under any existing treaties, or should you be likely to be able under any future treaties, to prohibit the access to those ports of foreign vessels engaged in the supply off lawful articles?—I do not think it could be done.

5451. Unless you could so prohibit the access of foreign vessels, you could not in any way prevent the supply of those articles which are requisite to be used in barter for slaves?—No.

5452. Then, on the whole, you would gain nothing in the way of interruption to the slave trade, and you would lose many advantages for the obstruction of the slave trade which you now possess by the free access of English vessels even to the suspected ports?—That is my opinion.

5453. Sir T. D. Acland.] May not the carrying on of legitimate commerce, even with slave-dealing natives, be used as a means of inducing them by negotiation to give up dealing in slaves?—It may be so, certainly.

5454. Mr. Forster.] How did this merchant at Sierra Leone come to be regarded with suspicion and mistrust who traded to the Gallinas, if, in your opinion, such trade is beneficial for the civilization of Africa, and the suppression of the slave trade?—I have not stated that exactly; I would not impose any restrictions by law on the entrance of any vessel, whether for lawful or unlawful purposes; but such freedom does not release the merchant who sells his goods, knowing that they will be employed for the slave trade, from the responsibility of doing so.

5455. You would prevent merchants and vessels frequenting such places as the Gallinas, if it was to be inferred that they could not go there and dispose of their goods without being subject to the charge of being aiders and abettors in the slave trade?—I think that it is very desirable that some regulations should be drawn up for the guidance of the men-of-war on the coast, with regard to vessels engaged in traffic; there appears to be a sort of impression now, that it is their duty to interfere with all vessels trading with slave-trading ports, and it is quite a misunderstanding on their part.

5456. Mr. Aldam.] If there is an establishment formed, where both the lawful and the unlawful traffic is carried on in goods, do you think it is desirable to prevent English vessels from trading to that establishment?—I think it is undesirable.

5457. Chairman.] It is suggested in Dr. Madden’s Report, that there should be some further acts of treaty, with a view of developing the resources of the colony?—I quite agree with Dr. Madden in that. In the year 1836 I was before a Committee of the House of Commons, when my evidence went particularly to that point. I thought that the policy of the British Government in rejecting territory, when they had legally and properly acquired it, and confining themselves entirely to the peninsula of Sierra Leone, was very injurious.

5458. The peninsula of Sierra Leone does not afford adequate employment and resources?—I think the employment and resources are sufficient for the population at present, but the land is not so fertile as the land that we then possessed, and which the Government at home required the Government there to give up, and restore to the natives; also the destruction of our sovereignty and property in that country will not allow us to take cognizance of slave-dealing transactions occurring in that territory.

5459. Mr. Forster.] Do you think it desirable to extend the limits of the colony at Sierra Leone?—I do.

5460. Do you think that there would be any difficulty in effecting that extension?—None whatever.

5461. Do you think that it would impose upon the British Government any great expense or responsibility to carry that out?—I do not think it would.

5462. Chairman.] Would it be desirable for the trade of the colony, if possible, to extend the limits of it, so as to give to a larger portion of the produce of the soil the advantage of British growth in the English markets?—I do not think advantage would be derived in that way; because no produce that is now brought down to Sierra Leone, and passes through Sierra Leone to England, is considered as foreign produce, either teak wood, palm-oil, rice, or any thing else.

5463. Does teak, for instance, take its character from the port of Sierra Leone?—Yes.

5464. Is it landed there?—Teak that is embarked in the river Sierra Leone is put on board the vessel in British waters.

5465. Where?—At Banee Island Roads.

5466. What distance from Freetown is that?—About fifteen miles.

5467. Is it floated down so far, and then put on board at that place?—Yes.

5468. Have you considered the question of emigration from the coast of Africa to the West Indies?—I have.

5469. Will you state generally what opinion you have formed on it?—I have formed a very favourable opinion of it. On the 15th of February 1841, at the desire of Lord John Russell, I expressed my views fully upon this subject, in a communication which I then made to the Colonial Office; I stated the classes from whom emigration might be expected, and though this was before any scheme of emigration was carried into effect, nothing has occurred since which has at all altered my opinion; and indeed just what I then expected has happened. It was supposed that there was a considerable desire on the part of the inhabitants to emigrate; such a desire I stated did not exist; that a few liberated Africans had been anxious to go to the country from which they had been taken as slaves, to join their friends, and that many Maroons had been anxious to go back to the West Indies, from which they had been taken, and where they had friends; but that beyond that, there was no general desire for emigration; that if such desire was requisite, it would be necessary to create it. That there was no difficulty at any time thrown in the way of persons anxious to leave the colony by the Governor and Council there; that on the contrary, just before I left, an application had been made by a party of liberated Africans to the Governor asking him to send them back to Badagry, on the coast, and the Governor and Council replied, that they might go if they pleased; but that the Government would not be at any expense in sending them. A few did go and returned, and since that time emigration has been going on to a considerable extent to Badagry, and at present there are a large number of liberated Africans there, who are finding their way across to the Niger; and in a letter I received a few days ago from a gentleman at Sierra Leone, he mentions that liberated Africans are still going to Badagry, and that it is likely to become an important place. There were a few Maroons, before emigration was encouraged by any agents from the West Indies, who purchased a vessel at Sierra Leone and went over to Jamaica, and their arrival was mentioned by Sir Charles Metcalfe, in one of the despatches which was received before my letter was written. I recommended that two persons should be selected from each of the principal tribes of liberated Africans, and sent over to the West Indies to report upon the prospects that were held out to emigrants by the colonies there, and that their wives and families should be supported during their absence, and also themselves paid a certain monthly allowance until their return; and I have no doubt that if that plan had been followed, a very large emigration from Sierra Leone would have taken place, and I regret much that it was not done.

5470. Are there at Sierra Leone chiefs who exercise a considerable influence over the liberated Africans?—Every tribe of liberated Africans has some chief man who represents its interests on all occasions, and who, in case of any difference with the Governor or other persons, stands forward to represent it.

5471. Do they generally fall into location according to the tribes from which they come?—No, they are mixed in the villages; the Governor pays no attention to that; he locates successive importations of negroes according to the wants of the place, and the land which is to be given away, without reference to nation.

5472. But subsequently those belonging to the same tribe co-operate?—They keep very much to their own nation.

5473. So that there are in the colony of Sierra Leone persons who exercise an influence over different portions of the population, according to the tribe that they come from?—Yes; I recommended that two persons should be chosen from each of the principal tribes, and sent over. And it appears from evidence that I heard given here the other day, that it was the non-return of such persons from Trinidad which prevented any further importation into that colony. I may perhaps be allowed to read a part of the letter which I wrote to the Colonial Office: “Evils of a serious nature may be anticipated if the collection and embarkation of African emigrants be left in the hands of private speculators, or even of the salaried agents of the different West India colonies, some of whom, at least, would be more anxious to signalize their zeal and success by the number of passengers whom they might ship, than cautious and scrupulous as to the means by which they are procured. Persons like the Maroons and liberated Africans mentioned above, who purchase or hire their own vessel, and pay their own passage, may of course go where they please, without question or obstruction, and they are little likely to go wrong. But with regard to negroes from the western coast of Africa, for whom a free passage will be found to the West Indies, in order that they may help to supply the deficiency of labourers so seriously felt there at present, I beg respectfully to recommend that the shipment of all such emigrants be positively restricted to the British settlements on the coast; that it there take place only with the sanction of Government, under the direct control and superintendence of the British emigration agent, and in exact conformity with the regulations issued for the guidance of that officer, and that it be confined to negroes who have been resident not less than 12 months in a British colony. Beyond the limits of British jurisdiction there is no part of this coast, except Liberia and the Kroo country, where the West India agents could obtain emigrant labourers from any other class than either the domestic slaves or the slaves prepared for sale to the slave traders; and when it is considered that, from causes which I need not now stop to explain, the price of a slave at the Gallinas, the largest slave mart in Africa, and close to Sierra Leone, has latterly been only 10 dollars a head, the necessity of confining the shipment of emigrants to British territory will be sufficiently evident. I cannot understand the reasons set forth by the Commissioners of Emigration as the ground on which they recommend that the emigrants should have been resident upwards of a twelvemonth in the colonies previous to their embarkation.” The precaution is nevertheless highly important; it will prevent the possibility of slaves from the territories which surround our small colonies being brought into our settlements, by their masters, merely for the purpose of being offered as emigrants to the West India agents. A chief, or the representative of a chief, from the Bullom shore, or from the Timany country, may very well supply the West Indian agent at Sierra Leone with 40 or 50 emigrants, on receiving a bonus of 10 dollars for each. This would probably be looked upon as a bounty, well bestowed for the advantage of procuring so many labourers and as a small addition to the expenses attending their collection and transport; but the supposed bounty would actually be the price and purchase-money of so many slaves; the slaves would be presented to the Government superintendent as free emigrants, and the payment of their purchase-money would be an affair known only to the parties concerned in it. With regard to liberated Africans (as long as they continue to be located at Sierra Leone) and Kroomen, there would appear to be less necessity for requiring that they should have been resident for a year previous to embarkation; but I would still apply the same strict rule to all, making however a year’s service on board a British man-of-war (in the case of the Kroomen) equal to a year’s residence in a British colony. Such strictness in this case can hardly be regarded as needless scrupulosity. In dealing with this delicate question, I presume it will be desired not only to satisfy ourselves that we have taken every precaution for the prevention of abuse, and for the protection of the negro emigrants, but to preserve our proceedings from the possibility of exception, or even suspicion on the part of other powers; and cautiously to avoid every practice, however innocent in itself, which may be dexterously accepted as a sanction of abuses which we have been forward to censure and oppose. I may here refer to the long correspondence which took place between the Foreign Department and the Netherlands Government on the subject of the African recruits enlisted at Elmina for service in the Dutch East India possessions; and to the recent capture, by a British man-of-war, of a French vessel employed, under the sanction of her Government, in collecting negroes on the coast to form black troops in the French colonies on the coast of Africa and in the West Indies. In the first case it was evident that the bounty which was paid by the Dutch Government for each recruit, to the person who produced him, was actually the purchase-money of a slave, and our senior naval officer in the Bights very properly gave notice to the Governor of Elmina, that any vessel with such recruits on board, if fallen in with by our cruizers, would be captured and sent to Sierra Leone for condemnation; and if brought there I should certainly have condemned her; and in the second case, the collection of recruits for the French Government, owing to its being entrusted to private speculators and contractors, immediately degenerated into open and undeniable slave dealing. “In the papers which I have received, little reference is made to any other emigrants than agricultural labourers, which is of course the class chiefly, if not exclusively wanted; I allude to this circumstance, because there are some classes at Sierra Leone which would supply no agricultural labourers, but only mechanics, schoolmasters, traders, boatmen, &c. The population of Sierra Leone, which in round numbers I take to be about 60,000, consists of about 1,200 Nova Scotia settlers, 1,200 Maroons, 50,000 liberated Africans, 7,600 Kroomen and strangers: 60,000. The Nova Scotians, or settlers, as we generally term them, would yield no field labourers, nor do I think that you would obtain any from the Maroons, though a large number of the latter would be very glad to be re-conveyed to their friends and relations at Jamaica, free of expense; a fair supply of mechanics, &c., might however be obtained from both classes. Of the liberated Africans, none of the more prosperous would, in my opinion, be inclined to emigrate, and at any rate they would not add to the number of the field labourers in the colonies. The people to whom I refer are hawkers, traders, and mechanics, and are generally drawn together and settled in Freetown and its neighbourhood, where they live in comfort and even luxury. It is to the remaining portion of this valuable body that we must principally look for emigrants, if we are to obtain them at all at Sierra Leone; and, if prudence and caution be used, I see no reason to doubt that a large number of them (quite as many as it will be proper for the colonies where they are now located to lose) may eventually be induced to remove to the West Indies. I would beg to propose that the four or five principal tribes of liberated Africans should be called upon, by means of influential persons of those tribes resident in Freetown, to select each two men in whom they have confidence; and those eight or ten delegates should be furnished with a passage to the West Indies and back, free of expense, in order that they may examine and ascertain for themselves the prospect which emigration offers. They should be used well on the voyage, should receive 2l. a month during their short absence, and their wives and families should be supported (a very trifling expense) during the same period. Let this plan be adopted and properly carried out, and I have no doubt whatever that it will be completely successful. The Kroomen, amongst whom I include the Fishmen, are so peculiar a race that they must always be considered by themselves. Their national peculiarities are very remarkable, and distinguish them almost as much from every other African tribe as they do from the Europeans. But it will be only necessary to notice those which affect them as emigrants. In the midst of a slaving district, they are never enslaved, and they navigate and work on board the Spanish and Portuguese slavers with perfect confidence and safety. Every man-of-war on the station ships has a certain number of these people according to her rating, and there are never less than 400 of them embarked on board the different vessels of the squadron at any one time. All the timber vessels, and indeed almost all other vessels on the coast engage Kroomen to do the heavy work, which Europeans cannot attempt with safety in that climate. They are to be met with wherever work is to be had or wages are to be obtained; they labour with astonishing energy, cheerfulness, and perseverance; and they are distinguished by frugality and parsimony. At Sierra Leone we have a shifting Kroo population of several hundreds, who are employed by the merchant vessels, and at the factories up the rivers, and by the merchants and other residents in Freetown; and the superior value of their labour as compared with that of liberated Africans is proved by the fact, that whilst the wages of a Krooman are from 9d. to 1s. per day, those of a liberated African are only 4d. a day, and yet the former is preferred. As agricultural labourers the Kroomen have never yet been tried either at Sierra Leone or anywhere else that I am aware of, but there is no doubt that, with their industry and intelligence, they would easily and rapidly acquire the necessary practical skill. From this description it may be supposed that the Kroo country is likely to supply our most valuable emigrants for the West Indies; but two objections may be made by the Colonial Governments to receiving Kroomen at all: one is, that they will not permanently settle anywhere but in their own country; and the other is, that they never carry their countrywomen away from home with them. Sierra Leone is the great mart for Kroo labour, and has been much frequented by that people during the last 30 years, and yet a Kroo woman has never been seen amongst us. The Krooman who leaves his own country in search of employment, will always return home at the end of three or four years, with the goods, the produce of his labour, which he has collected during his absence; part of the property thus acquired he presents to the king or head man of the town or district to which he belongs, and with the remainder he builds a house, procures a wife, clears a farm, and supports himself for about a year or 18 months. His holiday being over, he leaves his house, farm, and property to be attended to by his wife and his relations, and absents himself from home for another term of three or four years, at the expiration of which time he again returns with the fruits of his exertion to make a new present to his chief, to obtain another wife, and to add to the dimensions of his farm. This process is repeated several times, until the wanderer has acquired what is by him considered competent wealth, when he settles in his own country for the remainder of his life. The Kroomen are too valuable a class of labourers to be lightly thrown out of the scheme of emigration. If means of transport are provided, their numbers in the West Indies may eventually be kept up to several thousands. In that case the requirement respecting women must be dispensed with in their favour, and they must be assured that at least one opportunity will be afforded to them during every year of returning to their own country; nor would the people object to pay a limited sum (say eight to ten dollars) for their passage, finding themselves in provisions, as they do with us. Should it be deemed advisable to secure the services of these people, I would beg to propose that the same plan should be pursued with respect to them as I have recommended in the case of the liberated Africans, and that two head Kroomen and two head Fishmen should be selected to accompany the other African delegates from Sierra Leone, enjoying all the advantages of free passage and monthly pay conceded to their fellow-passengers. The Kroomen, however, unlike their companions, would leave behind them in the colony no wives and families to be supported during their absence. In Liberia there are several thousands of black American emigrants, some of whom are very poorly off, and might be disposed to remove to the West Indies; but it would be matter for consideration, whether it would be advisable, for the sake of the small supply which could be thus obtained, to depart from the rule of confining the shipment of negro emigrants to the British settlements on the coast, more especially as the distance between Sierra Leone and Liberia is so short, that many of the disappointed colonists from the latter have lately established themselves at Freetown. But the number of emigrants which can be obtained from all these sources, indeed the number of free labourers on the western coast of Africa compared with the great demand for labour in Trinidad or Demerara is so insignificant, that I would earnestly recommend a plan for the location and settlement in the West Indies of all slaves hereafter embarked by decrees of the various courts of mixed commission and mixed courts of justice, established under treaties between Great Britain and foreign powers for the suppression of the slave trade. This, however, is a subject not embraced in the papers which have been submitted for my perusal.” Then follow the rules for the emigration agent.

[Adjourned till To-morrow, at One o’clock.

Mercurii, 15º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Viscount Courtenay.
Mr. Denison.
Mr. Evans.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Sir R. H. Inglis.
Mr. W. Patten.
Mr. G. Wood.
Mr. Wortley.

Lord Viscount Sandon, in the chair.

Henry William Macaulay, Esq., called in; and further examined.

5474. Chairman.] Do you wish to correct any portion of your previous evidence?—I do. In reply to [question 5176], in reference to Dr. Madden’s statement about the surveyors, I said, “The surveyor is not employed by the court, but subsequently to the condemnation of the vessel he is employed by the captor to survey, in order to enable him to make a claim, according to the tonnage, through his agent in England.” There are two classes of surveyors; the one referred to in this reply: the other, which I ought to have mentioned also, are the surveyors employed by the court to see to the equipment of the vessel, and this survey takes place before condemnation. I referred to the latter surveyors yesterday in my evidence; but I mentioned only the surveyor employed by the captor to measure the vessel for the tonnage in my former examination, and it would appear as though I had on the first occasion understated the officers of the court. We have two surveyors employed by the court in equipment cases, not in the case of vessels laden with slaves. There is another correction I wish to make: in the answer to [question 5087], I stated that “It appears that it is a regular thing, sending vessels to him, that is to Mr. Zulueta: if they come to England to him, he sends them to Cadiz, and they get out again to the Havannah, and come again into the trade.” My answer was intended to describe only the course of that particular transaction, and not to apply to any other case.

5475. I observe in answer to [5087], to which you refer, you state that Zulueta “is a name well known on the coast in connexion with the slave trade, and any man ought to have been careful of being connected with such a person as that.” Will you state distinctly what charge it is you intended to make against Mr. Zulueta in those expressions?—Zulueta was known at Sierra Leone as the correspondent of the largest slave dealer on the coast, Pedro Blanco; all the bills which Pedro Blanco drew upon England were drawn upon Zulueta, and passed current in the colony of Sierra Leone with Pedro Blanco’s name on them, and Zulueta’s as the drawee. Zulueta was also subsequently found to be engaged in connexion with a slave vessel called the Gollupchik.

5476. Will you state who Pedro Blanco is?—He is a merchant who has now retired to the Havannah, but who was engaged for a long series of years in the Gallinas, as the principal person carrying on the slave trade there; his name occurs, for years together, in the case of very nearly every slave vessel captured off the Gallinas.

5477. Have you reason to know whether he was solely engaged in the slave trade?—His sole occupation was the slave trade.

5478. You think, therefore, that Zulueta’s known connexion with Pedro Blanco should have deterred any person who was unwilling to have aided or abetted the slave trade from having any transaction with him?—Certainly.

5479. Mr. Forster.] Are you aware that the house of Zulueta & Company is one of the first Spanish houses in this country, and perhaps in Spain?—I am aware that it is a very large house.

5480. You are consequently aware that it has commercial correspondence and transactions with most of the principal houses at Havannah and in the south of Spain?—I think it is very likely; I am not aware of it; but I know it to be a large mercantile house.

5481. That being the case, do you not think that bills might be drawn by Pedro Blanco on Messrs. Zulueta & Company without any direct correspondence between that house and Pedro Blanco himself, but accepted by order and on account of houses residing in Spain or in the Havannah?—It is quite impossible that Mr. Zulueta should have been ignorant of the only trade in which Pedro Blanco was engaged.

5482. But might not those bills be drawn without Messrs. Zulueta & Company having any direct account with Mr. Pedro Blanco?—Yes, it is possible.

5483. Then supposing a slave vessel were purchased at Sierra Leone and sent to this market for public sale, do you see any thing extraordinary in the party to whom the sale of that vessel is intrusted in London selling her to one of the first Spanish houses in this country?—If it was an Englishman who sold the vessel to the party to whom Mr. Zulueta sold her, I should think it very extraordinary indeed, because it was perfectly well known that Pedro Martinez, to whom she was sold, was a slave dealer.

5484. Then you think a London merchant who is intrusted with the sale of a vessel on the part of his correspondent in Africa, and whose duty it is to take that vessel to the best market, would be justified in refusing an offer for the vessel from Messrs. Zulueta & Company?—I think it would be his duty to do so, because the chances would be ten to one that she very soon afterwards would be employed in the slave trade.

5485. Then what justification, in your opinion, would that agent in London be able to make to his correspondent for refusing to sell the vessel to the highest bidder?—If the correspondent was an honest man, I think he would be perfectly well satisfied with the representation of his agent that the acceptance of such an offer would necessarily involve the introduction of the vessel immediately afterwards into the slave trade.

5486. But supposing the agent to act in that manner, would that prevent Messrs. Zulueta & Company buying the same vessel in a circuitous manner in this market?—No, it might not.

5487. Chairman.] Have you any thing further to say with regard to the connexion of Zulueta with the slave trade?—I would refer to his connexion with the Gollupchik, which was lately captured. In that case, it appeared that the vessel went out direct to the Gallinas from London.

5488. But you would not object to a British vessel trading lawfully with a slave trade factory?—No.

5489. What is there then in this transaction which gives it a guilty character?—Mr. Zulueta’s former connexion with the Gallinas slave traders shows, that his course of trade with the Gallinas was one liable to exception.

5490. But what is there to prove that he dealt with the slave traders in other than lawful goods?—They would be lawful goods, certainly.

5491. Do you consider it to be unlawful or improper to deal in lawful goods with a man who is engaged in the slave trade?—I do not consider it unlawful, but I do consider it improper; I say not unlawful, because you cannot prove guilty knowledge, but highly improper to sell goods to persons who, the seller must be aware, will employ them in the slave trade afterwards.

5492. Do you hold it to be against the purport of the Act to deal in lawful goods with persons engaged in the slave trade?—It is not against the purport of the Act for a merchant to deal with any one, unless he is aware that that person is engaged in the slave trade, and that the goods that he sells will be employed for slave trade purposes.

5493. Then that which is against the purport of the Act in your opinion, is to deal in goods, which goods will be used for unlawful purposes?—Yes.

5494. The mere trading in lawful goods, in itself you would not consider unlawful, or against the purport of the Act?—No.

5495. What evidence have we that Zulueta knew that in dealing with Pedro Blanco the goods he sold would be used for the barter of slaves?—Any body engaged in the Spanish trade would be aware that Pedro Blanco was the largest slave trader in the world.

5496. How would Messrs. Zulueta be paid for those lawful goods by Pedro Blanco?—I am not aware that he ever sold any goods to Pedro Blanco; the Gollupchik did not arrive off the Gallinas till after Pedro Blanco had left; he left I think in the latter part of 1838.

5497. It was a slave trade factory at the Gallinas with which Zulueta was dealing?—It was with the Gallinas.

5498. In the case of dealing with a person who had no other business than that of the slave trade, how would the payment be made?—In gold; in doubloons generally.

5499. There would be no payment in produce?—No; and that is the way in which all trade of that description is paid; there have been vessels going down from Sierra Leone and trading with the Gallinas and other slave ports, and the returns which they bring for their goods are doubloons.

5500. And you would infer from the circumstance of bringing doubloons, and not the produce of the country, that there was at least strong suspicion that it was an unlawful traffic?—A strong suspicion; I would not say more than that.

5501. Mr. Forster.] Suppose Messrs. Zulueta & Co. to receive an order from their correspondent at Havannah to supply a cargo of British merchandise to Pedro Blanco at the Gallinas, and these goods are shipped and are regularly cleared at the custom-house in England, do you consider that an illegal shipment?—The illegality depends upon the guilty knowledge. I consider it an improper transaction, because he must know the character of the person to whom he sends the goods.

5502. Do you think that Messrs. Zulueta & Co. would have been justified as merchants in refusing to obey the instructions of their foreign correspondent in a case of that kind?—I think that a man who viewed the slave trade in a proper light would have considered it improper to be so engaged.

5503. How could Messrs. Zulueta consider that illegal which was publicly allowed to be done by the custom-house authorities in this country?—The criminality depends upon the guilty knowledge, as to which the custom-house cannot decide.

5504. Then it is upon those grounds that you designate Messrs. Zulueta & Co. as connected with the slave trade?—Upon the grounds that I have stated altogether.

5505. Chairman.] Do you consider a merchant trading with King Peppel, a notorious slave trader in the Bonny, and receiving the produce of the country in exchange, to be acting against the purport of the Act of Parliament?—No, certainly not; because there there is a legitimate trade carried on alongside of the slave trade.

5506. Then you do not look merely at the person dealt with, but at the object for which the traffic is carried on?—Just so: I would designate as improper any trade carried on by a person who knew that the goods he sold would be employed in the slave trade.

5507. Mr. Forster.] If you consider it lawful for a British merchant to sell goods to so notorious a slave dealer as King Peppel, on what ground do you consider it illegal for Messrs. Zulueta & Company to ship a cargo of goods to Pedro Blanco or to Gallinas?—In the one case the trader receives his return in produce, and in the other case he sells goods which he knows will be employed in the slave trade, and for which he receives a return in money.

5508. How do you know that he is paid in money?—I do not know that Zulueta ever shipped goods to Pedro Blanco.

5509. Would you consider it legal if he did?—I think I have answered that question before, that the illegality depends upon the guilty knowledge of the party concerned, and that is a question for a jury to decide, if he is put upon his trial.

5510. Then that depends upon your construction of the Act of the 5th of George the Fourth?—Yes; no one can read the Act without understanding its purport.

5511. And you think the same principle applies in the case of slave vessels?—Yes.

5512. Mr. Wortley.] You stated just now that you were not aware that Messrs. Zulueta ever shipped any goods to Pedro Blanco; did you not previously state that that was one of your reasons for believing Messrs. Zulueta to be connected with the slave trade?—No; the ground I stated was the bills which Pedro Blanco drew upon them, which bills were current all along the coast, and I have seen some of them at Sierra Leone; they were drawn by Pedro Blanco on Zulueta; the transactions which gave rise to those bills I do not know.

5513. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider the shipment of goods referred to in the case of the Gollupchik an illegal shipment?—It was after my time; but I presume that it was illegal, because the vessel appears to have been condemned.

5514. Chairman.] The legality or illegality will depend upon circumstances, which are not before you?—Yes; all that I know of it is from this report. There is a gentleman here to-day who seized the vessel, Captain Hill; he will explain all the circumstances.

5515. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider that any vessel laden in this country, and legally cleared at the custom-house for a slave factory on the coast of Africa, is seizable as being engaged in an illegal transaction?—She is seizable, but if the captor seizes her wrongfully, the person seized would have a claim for damages. She is certainly seizable by any man-of-war, but her condemnation would depend upon the fact whether or not the captor made out a case.

5516. Chairman.] The mere fact of conveying goods to a slave factory would not be ground of condemnation, would it?—Certainly not.

5517. Mr. Forster.] Upon what ground can a vessel conveying a cargo of legal merchandise to the Gallinas be condemned?—On the ground of guilty knowledge, if it can be proved.

5518. Mr. W. Patten.] And that guilty knowledge would have to be left to the jury?—Yes.

5519. Chairman.] You have been asked upon the case of the Almirante, in [question 5238]; can you in any way state what the transaction was, and are you able to give any explanation of it?—All I remember respecting that transaction is, that a merchant at Sierra Leone, of the name of Benjamin Campbell, on my arrival in Sierra Leone, in 1830, spoke to me about a sum of 500l., not 600l., that was due by him to Mr. Kenneth Macaulay, who was at that time dead—he died in 1829—for a vessel that Mr. Campbell had purchased from him. I did not know of that vessel having gone into the slave trade till it was mentioned just now.

5520. The sale was made by Mr. Kenneth Macauley to Mr. Campbell?—Yes.

5521. Mr. Forster.] Was not Mr. Campbell an agent of the house of Macaulay & Babington?—No, not at that time; he had been one of the clerks in the house, but many years previously; he had long ceased to have any connexion with the house, I suppose about five years. He was in business for himself at the time, and in rather a large way of business.

5522. Mr. W. Patten.] At Sierra Leone?—Yes.

5523. Chairman.] You have spoken in your despatch, which you read at the last meeting of the Committee, of an extended scheme for promoting emigration from the coast of Africa to the West Indies; will you explain that more fully?—I would propose that the negroes should be sent to the West Indies after emancipation, in the same way as they have been of late years sent to the different colonies there from Havannah. Dr. Madden, who has made this Report, was the person appointed by Government, and specially sent out for the purpose of superintending the emigration of the emancipated negroes from Havannah to the different West India islands, and he would be able to give to the Committee all the details of the regulations which were adopted and sanctioned by the Government. I am not aware of the rules that were laid down for his guidance; but it appears in the slave trade papers of former years, during the time that the Duke of Wellington was Foreign Secretary, that he required a certain proportion to be observed between males and females, and also that negroes should be examined by a medical man, and no unhealthy ones sent; there were other regulations also by which he was bound; all the negroes that he could get he sent to Trinidad in the first instance, and I believe he sent some afterwards to Honduras and other places.

5524. Should you propose that they should remain a certain time in the colony before they were removed to the West Indies?—No, certainly not; I would have the removal take place immediately after emancipation. There is an emigration agent established at Sierra Leone, so that the whole machinery is ready at hand at once.

5525. How would you propose that the expense of transport across the Atlantic should be defrayed?—There would be no difficulty whatever about the expense, because the colonies to which they are sent would gladly pay any expenses of removal. The difficulty that the Government would experience would be, in distributing the negroes among the different colonies; but any West India colony would gladly pay the expense of removal of any number to their own shores.

5526. What is usually the expense incurred on account of each liberated African under the existing system at Sierra Leone?—The commissariat issues notice of tenders; when recruits are sent across from Sierra Leone to the West Indies, which they are continually to supply the West India regiments, it is open to any persons who have vessels unemployed to tender for their removal; and if the Government undertook to remove the negroes, I suppose it would be done in the same way.

5527. What is the expense now incurred for the maintenance of a liberated African at Sierra Leone?—He is maintained for six months; the allowance has been varied from 1d. to 2d. a day; but I believe now it is 11⁄2d.

5528. Are you aware of the expense of transporting them across the Atlantic?—I am not aware what has been charged; but whatever the expense was, the colony receiving the negroes would be very happy to pay it.

5529. You conceive that it would be a material advantage to the liberated Africans to be placed in a West India colony, rather than maintained for six months by Government, and afterwards thrown upon their own resources in Sierra Leone?—It would be an advantage in every way; an advantage first to the British Government in saving the expense of their maintenance; it would next be an advantage to the negroes, who are removed to a West India colony; and it would be a very great advantage to the colony of Sierra Leone, because, though it may be well able to support its present population, yet I think that further importations at any rate, unless the colony is extended, should be stopped. The advancement of the people who are now located there, is also considerably retarded, by having fresh importations of savages thrown amongst them from time to time, as they are, when slave ships are condemned.

5530. Is it possible to have a society of the extent of Sierra Leone otherwise than materially disturbed in all its moral and social relations by 4,000 or 5,000 uncultivated negroes from various quarters being thrown upon them at certain periods?—I think it is greatly injured by it.

5531. Is there any amount of capital in Sierra Leone ready to take up and give adequate employment to that influx of population?—No, not immediate employment; the people would themselves find employment to a certain extent, and I will not say how many more could be introduced safely so as to find employment; but all who are there can find employment, and can provide themselves with all the necessaries and conveniences of life if they choose.

5532. Are there the means, except in trade, of providing for more than the mere necessaries of life?—Agriculture is open to them to follow, if they have sufficient inducement.

5533. Is there sufficient opportunity afforded, from the state of agriculture in the colony, for raising more than is necessary for the sustenance and common maintenance of the labourer?—No, not at present; agriculture is not followed at all there for export; there are a few articles that are not worth mentioning that are raised, but there is no such system of agriculture for export followed that they could embark in agriculture at once.

5534. Then you conceive that both the social and moral condition of the negroes there would be improved, as they are now constituted, if they were placed in the West Indies instead of in Sierra Leone?—I think so; both for those who are left at Sierra Leone, and for those who are removed, it would be better.

5535. Do you think that it would be desirable to give the negro the option whether he would go to the West Indies or not?—Certainly not; it is never done now, and the Act of Parliament does not even contemplate such an option being given; the negro is taken to Sierra Leone, and located there, without his opinion or wishes being consulted, and in the same way he might be transported to the West Indies.

5536. Mr. W. Patten.] Is it obligatory in some of the treaties to take them to Sierra Leone?—The new Spanish treaty requires that they shall be established in a territory of the country to which the cruizer that has made the capture belongs.

5537. Chairman.] But must not the adjudication be on the coast of Africa?—Not necessarily; Spanish vessels may be condemned at Havannah; and in some cases when Portuguese vessels have been captured in the West Indies, the slaves have been sent to Jamaica, and various other islands in the West Indies; and when the vessel is sent over to Sierra Leone, she comes over to us without the slaves; the slaves having been landed in the first instance, so as to save them a second voyage across the Atlantic; but with regard to vessels seized in the West Indies, which are liable to condemnation under the Spanish treaty, the Havannah court would condemn them, and the slaves would then be sent as Dr. Madden has sent them, to one of our West India colonies.

5538. Do you conceive that foreign powers would entertain, or be justified in entertaining, any objection to such a distribution?—No, they would not entertain it, and I do not think that they would be justified in entertaining it; on the contrary, it was the case in former days that the vessels that were condemned by the court at Havannah had their slaves located in the island of Cuba; but the planters cried out against it very loudly; and it was at their suggestion and their request that we sent away the negroes to our own West India colonies.

5539. By the treaties it is arranged that the captured negroes should be planted within the colonies of the capturing party?—It is stipulated in the seventh Article of the Portuguese treaty and the old Spanish treaty: “As to the slaves, they shall receive from the mixed commission a certificate of emancipation, and shall be delivered over to the government on whose territory the commission which shall have so judged them shall be established to be employed as servants or free labourers.” The Act never contemplates any option whatever being exercised by the persons seized, because it allows of their being drafted into the army or navy, without any reference to their own will.

5540. Would the possible objection of foreign nations be stronger if we engaged in a system of colonial emigration from the coast of Africa, from other points than Sierra Leone?—I mentioned yesterday that we could not go beyond the limits of British jurisdiction in procuring emigrants, without appearing to give a sanction to those practices for which we have been complaining against other nations of late years, both the French and Dutch.

5541. In placing the emancipated slaves in islands where they would be engaged in cultivating sugar, you would be in fact compelling the slave trader to put down the slave trade itself in a great degree?—Yes; I think that a great advantage, causing our efforts for the suppression of the slave trade to operate in encouraging the cultivation of sugar in our own colonies.

5542. In as far as it went, it would cheapen the very produce, the dearness of which now constitutes the great inducement for carrying on the slave trade?—Yes; the best way of putting down the slave trade is our cultivating that produce in such a manner that it can compete with slave-grown produce; and every thing that we do in adding to the difficulty of carrying slaves across the Atlantic, adds to the price of labour and the price of sugar in the slave-growing colonies.

5543. Every thing that we do with a view to encourage the lawful produce, and to induce the negroes of Africa to get what they require in a lawful way, diminishes the temptation to carry on the slave trade, and co-operates with the cruizers in putting it down?—Certainly. There is a passage with respect to enlisting negroes who are condemned by the courts, without any reference to their own will; it occurs in the 22d clause of the Act of 5 Geo. 4, c. 112: “It shall be lawful for His Majesty, his heirs, and successors, and such officers, civil or military, as shall, by any general or special order of the King in Council, be from time to time appointed to receive, protect, and provide for such persons as shall be so condemned, either to enter and enlist the same, or any of them, into His Majesty’s land or sea service, as soldiers, seamen, or marines, or to bind the same or any of them, whether of full age or not, as apprentices, for any term not exceeding seven years, to such person or persons, in such place or places, and upon such terms and conditions, and subject to such regulations as to His Majesty shall seem meet, and as shall by any general or special Order of His Majesty in Council be in that behalf directed and appointed; and any indenture of apprenticeship duly made and executed by any person or persons to be for that purpose appointed by any such Order in Council, for any term not exceeding seven years, shall be of the same force and effect as if the party thereby bound as an apprentice had himself or herself when of full age, upon good consideration, duly executed the same.” It leaves no option whatever with the party bound.

5544. You think vessels could always be taken up to meet the arrival of emancipated negroes?—The chartering of vessels would, I think, offer no difficulty at Sierra Leone. There are, I believe, now, but there certainly would be, in case such a plan was adopted, agents from the different colonies which are anxious to obtain negroes, who would be always ready to secure vessels for their transport across the Atlantic.

5545. Would not this be of advantage in opening a communication from the West India islands with the coast of Africa, and encouraging the intercourse between the two countries, and the free interchange of products, to the advancement of the civilization of Sierra Leone, and through it, of Africa?—In almost all cases where vessels have gone across to the West Indies with recruits from Sierra Leone, the vessels have gone on from the West Indies to England, taking a cargo from the West Indies to England.

5546. Then it would only have the effect of increasing the advantageous resort of vessels to Sierra Leone generally?—That would be one effect.

5547. Would it not have an effect on Sierra Leone, by giving an advantageous freight to vessels frequenting it?—Yes, it would have that effect.

5548. If it were considered desirable, would there be any difficulty in giving to the negroes, after emancipation at Sierra Leone, the option of remaining in the country or of going over to the West Indies?—I think it would be undesirable to introduce a new practice where no option is now given, and where the persons are not qualified immediately after emancipation, to form any opinion whatever.

5549. Mr. Forster.] Do you think that it would be good policy to give retired allowances to all public officers who have served a certain number of years on the coast of Africa?—I think it would.

5550. The officers of the Mixed Commission Court, I believe, are the only officers who enjoy that advantage?—I think the colonial chaplain does, but by favour, not by right; there are no officers who serve under colonial governments who are entitled to pensions; it is a rule of the service, which is stated positively in their printed regulations.

5551. But considering the danger to health in that climate, you are of opinion that it would be for the benefit of the service, and also consistent with justice, that some allowance, in the shape of pension or otherwise, should be made to officers serving there?—I think so. There is one other point that I would beg to refer to, and that is rather personal. It was stated by a witness in evidence on the 24th of May, that there was a party in the colony of Sierra Leone who had great influence in the Colonial Office; that this party was an individual; that the suspicion of the witness, Colonel Findlay, did not apply to more than one individual, and that that individual was myself; and that he found, during the time that he was governor of the colony, that the contents of despatches sent from the Colonial-office to Sierra Leone were known in the colony by that party before they came to his hands, and that he was consequently, and owing to that, impeded in carrying on his government. Now I would only mention, with regard to this statement, that I never received one single line all the time I was in the colony, which was 11 years, from any person connected with the Colonial-office, either directly or indirectly, on any subject whatever; and that I never wrote one line to any person in the Colonial-office during that period, except one letter of introduction, which I gave to an officer of the 31st regiment, who wanted to travel in Africa; I gave to this gentleman a sort of certificate that he was a man of mild and conciliatory manners; that was the only letter that I wrote to the Colonial-office, and I never received one line upon any subject from any party in the Colonial-office, not even in reply to the letter of introduction just referred to.

5552. Mr. Forster.] You had no correspondence with the Colonial-office during your residence in Africa, directly or indirectly?—None whatever, or with any person connected with the Colonial-office.

5553. Mr. W. Patten.] Colonel Finlay, in his evidence, referred to a party existing in the colony; are you aware of two distinct parties existing in the colony?—I am aware of one party that existed in the colony during the time that he was there, and that is a long time ago, a party that opposed his government, because they thought he was a bad Governor. I was one of that party certainly, while I was a merchant. As soon as I became a government officer I abstained from any public demonstration of feeling or opinion, but as a merchant, and before I entered upon my public duties in the Mixed Commission Court, I certainly took the means that every man is allowed to take to show that I did not approve of his proceedings.

5554. But was that party a political party, or was the party connected solely with the circumstances of the colony itself?—It was merely with relation to the colony; they did not care at all about Whigs and Tories out there; they had their colonial politics to attend to.

5555. Mr. G. Wood.] Did the discontent originate in political or commercial views?—It originated in consequence of measures which were considered oppressive upon individuals; it was upon local matters altogether.

5556. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider that it originated in commercial questions?—Certainly not.

5557. Were you a government officer at the time that the transaction took place which led to Colonel Finlay’s recal?—I think I was; I think the imprisonment of Mr. M‘Cormack occurred in 1832; I entered upon my office in 1832; I think it was after I became a government officer. After I became a judge I took no public part in opposition to any government, however bad it might have been.

5558. You took no part in that transaction which led to Colonel Finlay’s recal?—I took no public part; I may have given advice to my friends.

5559. Did not a trial arise out of those transactions, in which you were a witness?—No; no trial at all occurred, and therefore I could not have been a witness in any.

5560. Chairman.] Have you read the remarks of Colonel Doherty on the Report of Dr. Madden?—I have.

5560*. Do you concur in the views which he has taken of the points alluded to?—In almost every particular.

5561. Is there any material point upon which you differ from him?—I think only two: one, with respect to the Kroomen, whose residence in the colony Colonel Doherty thought was injurious, and interfered with the resident liberated Africans; I do not agree with him in that respect; I think that they should not be interdicted at all from coming to Sierra Leone, nor should their numbers be limited.

5562. You believe them to be advantageous to the colony?—Yes.

5563. And, by their example, to the liberated Africans themselves?—Yes, I think even to them, as setting an example of industry, which they would do well to imitate.

5564. Do you concur in opinion with Colonel Doherty as to the character of the Kroomen; he speaks of the Kroomen as men never to be trusted, never converted to Christianity, and likely, wherever they may be, to exhibit a bad example in that particular; do you concur in that?—I agree in opinion with Colonel Doherty, that they would not be converted to Christianity. I do not think them dishonest when they are well treated. I never heard of an instance of any liberated African being converted to the Pagan opinions of the Kroomen; I believe such a thing was never heard of.

5565. You believe that they are more difficult of conversion than other Africans?—It is quite impossible, if I may say so of any body; there never was an instance known of a Krooman being converted.

5566. To what do you attribute that peculiarity?—To their constant return, as I mentioned yesterday, to their own country. They never think of settling any where but in their own country. There is no instance of a Krooman settling any where but in the Kroo country.

5567. Do they not settle at Fernando Po?—No; no more than they settle in Sierra Leone.

5568. Mr. G. Wood.] Do they all retire to their own country in their old age?—Yes. I have known a great many of them; indeed, I was very partial to them, and had a good many in my employ. Governor Doherty rather discouraged their employment, which I thought unwise, but that was one slight point on which I disagreed with him.

5569. Chairman.] Have you never heard of their being converted at Cape Palmas by American missionaries?—No.

5570. Mr. G. Wood.] Are you aware of any persevering and continuous efforts having ever been employed?—No, I cannot say that I am; but they are thrown into our colony very much under the same circumstances that the liberated Africans are, who become Christians, almost universally.

5571. Chairman.] The liberated Africans are more settled?—Yes.

5572. And are therefore more exposed to the influence of those around them?—Yes; but the Krooman also resides at Sierra Leone, and is never away more than once in three or four years, but the periodical return to his own country, and to his old habits, is I think a great cause why it is so difficult to christianise him.

5573. Mr. Wortley.] Is there any mode of accounting for those remarkable peculiarities in the Kroomen?—No; I think they are kept distinct by the habit of the country, never allowing the women to leave the country, and thus inducing the men constantly to return.

5574. Is there any distinction of race to be observed between them and other tribes?—Yes, a most striking difference.

5575. Is there any reason to suppose their origin to have been different from the origin of the rest of the inhabitants of Africa?—One would suppose so from their being totally different in colour and habits.

5576. Mr. G. Wood.] Has their language been analysed with a view to see whether that affords any indication of their being from a different stock?—No. An opinion seems to have been expressed by Governor Doherty against allowing Mahomedans to exercise their religion. I differ from him there also; but I think, with those two exceptions, as far as I recollect it, I agree with the remainder of the Report.

5577. Viscount Courtenay.] Bearing in mind the remarks which are made in that Report upon the subject of schools, do you concur with him generally in those remarks, or do you wish to add any thing?—I quite concur with him, particularly with regard to the pay of the teachers; I think the pay certainly is on too low a scale at present to secure the services of good teachers.

5578. What is your opinion as to the practice which seems to exist of separating the children of liberated Africans from the Creole children?—I think any separation of that kind is undesirable.

5579. Is it apparently justified by any difference of natural talent between them as a class?—No; but there is a very great difference between the colony-born children and those who have been introduced into the colony at a later age; those who have been born and bred in the colony are very superior.

5580. Is the result of this separation that liberated African children make much less progress in education generally than the other children?—Yes; I should think that is the effect.

5581. Are they taught English?—Yes, they all speak English.

5582. Mr. G. Wood.] Does it give birth to any permanent feelings of enmity between the two classes of children?—No.

5583. Mr. W. Patten.] I observe in one of the recent slave treaties, which sets out the duties incumbent upon the master to whom negroes are apprenticed, the first duty is, that the apprentice shall be maintained in proportion to the employment done, and shall be supplied with such clothes as are usual according to the custom of the colony; during your residence in Sierra Leone was that attended to by the authorities there?—I think that the whole system of apprenticeship there was bad; it was required by the indentures, but the indentures were very imperfectly fulfilled.

5584. There are six different classes to be attended to upon this point; first, with regard to food; secondly, with regard to instruction in the Christian religion; and according to that second article they must be baptized before the expiration of the second year of apprenticeship; was that at all looked to?—No, I do not think it was. In many cases you could not carry it out, because the person who was apprenticed came there not as a child, but grown up, and the clergyman would then take upon himself to decide whether he was a fit subject for baptism or not.

5585. But the authorities in the colony did not see in any way that that was done?—No.

5586. The next is, “that the apprentice should be vaccinated as soon as possible after being delivered into the charge of the master, and that in sickness he shall have proper medical advice and be treated with due care and attention, and that in case of death, he shall be decently buried at the master’s expense?”—There is no obligation of that kind with regard to negroes in Sierra Leone; this is a treaty that does not refer to Sierra Leone.

5587. This is in the treaty that was signed in 1839?—It did not come into operation at the time I was in Sierra Leone; there is a treaty somewhat similar; the last treaty with Spain, which requires that attention shall be paid to emancipated negroes.

5588. You stated that you thought the apprenticeship system was very bad?—Yes, I think the whole system of apprenticeship at Sierra Leone is bad, and ought to be done away with.

5589. Mr. G. Wood.] What system would you substitute for it?—I would not object to apprenticing children to artizans and to master tradesmen, but I certainly would not apprentice them to other persons.

5590. Chairman.] Your system of disposing of the liberated Africans in the West Indies would, of course, get rid of the difficulty attending upon the future?—Yes.

5591. Mr. G. Wood.] But supposing that system not to take place, what system should you think preferable to the system of apprenticeship now prevalent in Sierra Leone?—There can be no system introduced that would not entail considerable expense upon the Government.

5592. Chairman.] Would you throw the adults upon their own resources at an earlier period than at present?—No; I think the time (six months) for which the Government now support the adults is as short as it could possibly be, and I do not think they could shorten that by one day.

5593. Mr. G. Wood.] You stated that no other system could be substituted but what would be attended with considerable expense; do you think it would be worth while to incur that expense?—I do not think the present system should be continued, whatever the expense might be of substituting another system for it.

5594. What system would you recommend as a substitute for it?—The system that must be substituted for it, in case of the apprenticeship being done away with, would be keeping all the children, as they now do many of them, landed from slave vessels, in the schools till they are old enough to be thrown upon their own resources.

5595. Chairman.] Making them, in fact, boarding-schools?—There is a boarding-school in many of the villages; in the villages the liberated African children are lodged and fed by the manager, but that is only the children who are not apprenticed.

5596. You would have all the children put into boarding-schools?—I see no other way at present of disposing of them, if they are not apprenticed.

5597. Mr. G. Wood.] Had the change of system that you alluded to reference to an altered system with regard to the adults?—No; I would not alter the system with regard to the adults, except, perhaps, by extending the period two months, during which they should be maintained by Government.

5598. That would be an extension from six months to eight months?—Yes; at any rate, while the Government continues to use their services, as they do at present, when they are employed for three months after their arrival labouring upon Government works, and are prevented from employing themselves upon farms.

5599. Mr. Forster.] In answer to [question 5208], in your former evidence, with respect to the system of landing the crews of captured slavers, you said, “I have never known a cruizer act inhumanely. I heard of one case the other day where people starved, but it was stated in that case that it was owing to the refusal of the Portuguese factories to support them.” Had you any opportunity at Sierra Leone of observing the system pursued in this respect by our cruizers?—I have mentioned that the only portion of the slave crews that we saw at Sierra Leone were those who were sent up as witnesses.

5600. What case is this which you allude to as having heard of?—It was a case I heard of in this room, mentioned by some gentleman connected with the Bonny trade.

5601. Are you aware whether there are any Spanish or Portuguese factories in Bonny?—I am aware that there were some slave factories there formerly.

Lunæ, 27º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. W. Hamilton.
Mr. Milnes.

VISCOUNT SANDON, IN THE CHAIR.

Captain Henry Worsley Hill, R. N., called in; and examined.

7109. Chairman.] What has been your connexion with the coast of Africa?—I commanded the “Saracen” on the coast of Africa from October 1837 till January 1841.

7110. What part of the coast have you cruized along?—The first eight months I was in the Bight of Benin; after that I went to the Cape of Good Hope and Madagascar, returning to Sierra Leone in December 1838; and continuing on the coast between Cape Palmas and Portendique till June 1841.

7111. Has the character of the system of cruizing altered during that period?—On the Sierra Leone side, certainly. Latterly, we established a very close blockade.

7112. Have you been engaged in descents on the coast?—Yes, at Gallinas, and at Sea-bar.

7113. At Gallinas you were engaged with Captain Denman?—Yes.

7114. At Sea-bar, were you by yourself?—The “Ferret” was there likewise.

7115. What were the circumstances of your operations at Sea-bar?—I had had a boat blockading Sea-bar, where there was a noted slave factory, and my boat’s crew had required water, and on landing to procure water, the king, Harry Tucker, refused water without I paid for it at a most exorbitant rate, about a dollar a gallon he demanded; and I was authorized by the Governor of Sierra Leone to endeavour to effect a treaty, that had been sent out from the Home Government with the chiefs of that part of the coast. I landed for the purpose of endeavouring to effect this treaty, and also to inquire into the cause of the king’s refusing my boat’s crew water. The slave factory belonging to Mr. François is close to the usual place of landing, being close to the water; it is at the southernmost entrance of the Sherboro’ River. On landing I found that every person had left the factory; after a short time, I succeeded in getting a messenger to go to the king, who was represented to be in the bush, and requested that he would come to see me, assuring him that I had come upon a friendly mission. He refused; I then wrote to him for the same purpose; after waiting some time, several people appeared at the borders of the wood, armed, and one man advanced and came to me, and told me that Mr. François, the slave merchant, and the king had armed the slaves for the purpose of coming down to attack us, but that they preferred giving themselves up to us, and going to Sierra Leone to be made free, and asking if I would receive them on board; I of course told them yes, as many as would come, and I think about fifty came down armed with muskets and cane knives. They procured for themselves a canoe; I had not room in my own boats for them. They represented that they had been very ill-used by the slave-factor, Mr. François, flogged and beaten, and kept in irons, and confined closely in the barracoons; and when they were in the boat they expressed their delight, by clapping their hands and singing in their country manner. I had determined upon destroying the barracoons, but I thought it better if I could induce the slaves to do it themselves, it would be setting a better example. Upon its being mentioned to the slave who could speak English (there was only one who could speak English), he mentioned it to the others, and two or three immediately volunteered from the troop, to go up and burn the barracoons and the factory. They went and set fire to it in about twenty places, and the place was destroyed. I was told afterwards that this was followed by another slave factory being burnt on the opposite side of the river the following day, by the slaves themselves.

7116. Who was this Mr. François?—He is a slave factor, who has resided a long time at Sea-bar; I believe he was once in the French navy as a foremast man, but I am not certain.

7117. Was he living under the protection of the native chief there?—He was living in the chief’s territory; therefore, I suppose he was there with his sanction and knowledge; I had been there before, and I had seen the chief in Mr. François’ house.

7118. Mr. Forster.] Do not you think it was setting rather a dangerous example to tell the natives to destroy property under such circumstances?—No, I thought I was setting a good example, or I should not have done it.

7119. You think they could fully appreciate the motives and views with which you acted?—Undoubtedly.

7120. Do the natives condemn the slave trade themselves?—They carry the slave trade on; if they did not carry it on, there would be no slave trade.

7121. Then on what ground of moral right could they account for your destroying this property for the reason that it was with the view of doing away with the slave trade, a trade which they do not consider morally wrong?—They can easily, I think, appreciate the view with which the slaves were armed to come down and attack Her Majesty’s boats, who went there with friendly intentions.

7122. Chairman.] Those whom you got to destroy the barracoons were slaves themselves?—They were slaves, who had been armed to come and attack us, and they came and placed themselves under British protection, and begged to be taken to Sierra Leone.

7123. You think they would understand why you sent them to destroy the means of imprisonment;—I think so, certainly.

7124. Mr. Forster.] You carried them to Sierra Leone?—I carried them to Sierra Leone, and entrusted them to the protection of the governor.

7125. Chairman.] Do you know any thing of the circumstances under which those slaves had come there?—They were Mr. François’ slaves, and I imagine they must have been purchased in the way in which all the slave factors purchase their slaves; they are brought down from the interior.

7126. Mr. Forster.] Have you given any similar advice to the native chiefs, or the natives, on any other part of the coast, to destroy the property of slave dealers?—I have advised the whole of the chiefs that I have had any communication with to discontinue the slave trade, the sale or barter of negroes to Europeans.

7127. Chairman.] Was there property in those barracoons that were destroyed?—There was very little property; I think the goods must have been removed from the slave factory some time previously.

7128. Sir T. D. Acland.] The use of those barracoons was distinctly for the purpose of keeping up the traffic in slaves?—The slaves had been confined there, according to what I learned from those I received on board, on the previous night, to the number of between 300 and 400. There were a vast number of shackles and chains, with which they had been chained, and the slaves had been removed out of the barracoons on the approach of my boats.

7129. Therefore the property destroyed was only such as was used for the most criminal purpose?—There was no property destroyed but what was used for the slave trade. In fact, there was very little property besides the buildings; every thing had been removed.

7130. Mr. Forster.] You think the natives could draw the distinction between property of that description and other property which you yourself might feel inclined to respect?—I think the natives could draw the distinction between property intended for the slave trade, belonging to a foreign slave dealer who had settled in the country for the express purpose of carrying on the slave trade, which the natives know is contrary to the laws of his own country, and contrary to the laws of all Europe.

7131. But when they see those persons settle in their own country, with the sanction and under the protection of their chiefs, do you think that, under those circumstances, to teach them such a want of respect for property can have a beneficial tendency in the country generally, where it must have been witnessed by other natives, and known to other natives besides those which you have mentioned as being engaged in this transaction?—I think it must have a beneficial effect on the natives of the country where it takes place.

7132. Chairman.] In doing this did you act under specific instructions, or upon your own responsibility?—Upon my own responsibility; I have received the approbation of the Admiralty.

7133. Did you receive any general instructions to attack slave factories wherever they were not under an European flag?—Not while I was on the coast.

7134. Mr. Forster.] Did you visit the Rio Nunez?—Yes.

7135. Do you know two chiefs there of the names of Sallafou and Sarra?—Sallafou is the chief of the Narrow country, and Sarra is the chief of the Kikandy country.

7136. Did you advise those chiefs to get possession of the goods of any slave vessel that might come within their reach, and any property that might be in them?—I think it is very likely that I advised those chiefs, while I was in their country, to discontinue the European slave trade and to prohibit slave vessels from coming to their country.

7137. But you did not advise them to seize slave vessels or slave cargoes?—I advised them to prohibit slave vessels coming to their country, and not to allow the slave trade.

7138. But you did not advise them to use every means in their power to get possession of any property belonging to a slave dealer that might come within their reach?—They could not get possession of any property, or slave vessel, if they followed my advice of not allowing them to come to their country to trade for slaves. There was no slave vessel, nor did I see any factories, in the Nunez, or any signs of the slave trade being carried on there.

7139. But they could not prevent slave vessels coming into their country without being in contact with them, and therefore having the means of seizing them?—Their seizing slave vessels and goods would be an act of their own. I remember no advice being given them by me, that they were to lie wait, or endeavour to seize vessels that they supposed to be engaged in the slave trade, or to seize goods on board those vessels, or to use any fraudulent means of getting those goods into their possession.

7140. Then if they have made your advice a pretext for seizing property in vessels belonging to Frenchmen in their rivers, they have done so falsely?—They never received any advice or recommendation from me to seize goods or vessels belonging to the French or any other nation. When I was in the Nunez there were three English merchants and four French merchants with me. The origin of my going there was owing to a war existing between King Sarra and the Nallow chief, which had stopped the trade of the river. There had also been some outrages committed upon an English vessel; the captain of one English vessel had been forcibly made to pay between 60 and 70 dollars, and another English vessel had been fired on by the natives. I entered into treaties with the chiefs that French and English property should be respected. The merchants were present at both interviews with those chiefs, a Foolah chief, with about 100 or 120 Foolahs, who had been sent down from the Foolah country, was also with me, and assisted in making king Sarra refund 64 dollars which he had taken from this English captain, which money I delivered to the Governor of Sierra Leone; and on leaving the river both the English and French merchants expressed themselves very much satisfied with what I had done. There was no advice given by me to either of the chiefs but in the presence of those merchants.

7141. Chairman.] Did you find, in the course of your cruize, assistance given to the slave trade by English merchants?—I detained an English vessel bound to the Gallinas, freighted through the agency of Messrs. Zulueta, of London, on behalf of Pedro Martinez, of the Havannah, consigned to some notorious slaving establishment at the Gallinas.

7142. What was the result?—I sent the vessel to Sierra Leone; she was tried in the Vice-Admiralty Court, and condemned; the master was also tried at the sessions at Sierra Leone. The grand jury found a true bill against him, and I have every reason to believe the petty jury would have found him guilty, had the Queen’s advocate, who conducted the prosecution, represented the master as also the owner. But upon the trial he was tried merely as the master, and the jury acquitted him on the supposition that the master of a vessel might be ignorant of the trade in which she was engaged; but he being master and owner, and having been to the Gallinas on two previous voyages, and delivered cargoes, consigned in one instance to the notorious Pedro Blanco, and in another instance to another slave merchant; had this appeared, I have every reason to believe he would have been convicted. It is my opinion the house of Zulueta have aided and abetted the slave trade for a number of years, by acting as agents for slave dealers. There is a case on record, very nearly similar to this, of the brig Arrogante, which was sent out to the Havannah, and represented to the English Government by the English consul at the Havannah.

7143. You mean by the same house?—By the same house.

7144. What is the nature of the interest which the house of Zulueta have in these transactions?—They appear as agents only.

7145. What is the nature of their agency?—I will state the whole case of the vessel. I have copies of the principal papers with me in London, if the Committee should wish to see them. The “Augusta” was originally the “Goluptichick.” The “Goluptichick” was detained by me off Gallinas under Russian colours, with a crew composed solely of Spaniards. Her course of trade for two years had been wholly confined to Spanish ports and the coast of Africa. I had information of her taking a cargo of slaves from the coast a few months previously to my capturing her; I sent her to Sierra Leone, and attempted to try her in the Spanish and British Mixed Commission Court, under the treaty with Spain. She was refused to be admitted into the court, being under Russian colours and papers. I then determined upon sending her to England, being convinced that this vessel could not be trading lawfully from Russia, Russia having no colonies to which it was possible she could be carrying slaves. The vessel was perfectly equipped for the slave trade.

7146. What year was this in?—This was in 1839. The master of the vessel, rather than be sent to England, told me he would prove that the vessel was Spanish property, and gave me a certificate to that effect. I tried a second time to get her into the Mixed Commission Court, and failed, and then sent her to England. She was detained in England by the English Government for some time, and I believe given up to the Russian authorities; but I have received no official information on the subject. The vessel was sold at Portsmouth to a Mr. Jennings, but by the papers found on board her this purchase appears to have been effected by Zulueta & Co. The vessel proceeded to Liverpool, and shipped a cargo through the agency of Zulueta, on account of P. Martinez, of Havannah, which cargo was to be delivered at the Gallinas, to three notorious slave dealers. I found her at the Gallinas, and immediately seized her, when she was tried, as I have related, at Sierra Leone. An appeal has been entered before the Privy Council, and is now pending. In the trial at Sierra Leone the master and owner, Mr. Jennings, did not defend the vessel, which is an extraordinary thing, because the master and owner of the vessel, when she was tried before the Vice-Admiralty Court at Sierra Leone, ought to have defended her.

7147. Mr. Hamilton.] Was she equipped for the slave trade the second time?—No, she was not.

7148. Captain Fitzroy.] Who defended her?—She was not defended at all.

7149. Sir T. D. Acland.] This is the second time that she has been tried at Sierra Leone?—This is the third time. The case of the Arrogante is very nearly similar; it is to be seen in the Papers laid before Parliament in 1839 or 1840.

[Adjourned to Wednesday next, at Half-past Twelve o’clock.

Mercurii, 29º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. W. Hamilton.
Sir R. H. Inglis.
Mr. Milnes.

Viscount Sandon in the chair.

Captain Henry Worsley Hill, R.N., called in; and further examined.

7150. Chairman.] When you were last examined, you were stating the cases in which you conceived that British merchants had given assistance to the slave trade?—Yes; I stated the case of the Augusta having been detained by me.

7151. Are there other cases which have come to your knowledge?—Not of vessels being engaged in the slave trade.

7152. Are there any other instances in which you have ascertained that English merchants had aided or abetted the slave trade?—A representation in a private way was made to me by the governor of Liberia, that an English vessel had supplied Mr. Canót at New Cestos, with goods and arms. He mentioned among other things, two or three pieces of brass ordnance, with which Mr. Canót was supposed to be fortifying his slaving establishments.

7153. Was that case investigated?—No, I could not gain sufficient proof. I went on board the vessel, and the master of the vessel did not deny having landed goods at Theodore Canót’s establishment, but I could find nothing amongst her papers or her custom-house cockets that went to convince me that guns and things had been taken out from England consigned to Mr. Canót. It did not come to any thing, it was merely a representation made by the governor of Liberia, as a set-off to the complaints that were daily made of the American flag covering the slave trade upon the coast; but I could find nothing whatever that justified me in supposing that that vessel came out with her cargo consigned to Mr. Canót.

7154. Do you know of any other case?—No, I know of no other case.

7155. Have you received assistance in the prosecution of your duty upon the coast from English vessels engaged in trade, in the way of information or otherwise?—In one or two instances I have.

7156. Of what nature?—Merely giving information of vessels which they had seen on the coast, which they suspected of being engaged in the slave trade.

7157. Have you ever received obstruction from them?—No, I have not.

7158. Mr. Forster.] You have spoken very strongly of Messrs. Zulueta & Co. as connected with the slave trade; are you aware that those gentlemen act very extensively as agents for foreign houses in Cuba, in Spain, and in Brazil, as Spanish merchants?—I have no means of ascertaining that.

7159. The cargo of the Augusta, which you seized, was shipped at Liverpool, where Messrs. Zulueta & Co. have a house?—It was.

7160. Did you find any prohibited goods in that cargo which had been shipped at Liverpool?—None.

7161. That cargo having been shipped at Liverpool, composed of lawful goods, and legally cleared by the custom-house officers there, in what way do you consider Messrs. Zulueta & Co. criminally implicated in such a transaction?—The custom-house officers at Liverpool may be totally ignorant of the trade carried on at the Gallinas, and also totally ignorant of the trade carried on by Pedro Martinez & Co. at the Havannah.

7162. Suppose Messrs. Zulueta & Co. to have received orders from their foreign correspondents to ship those goods; in what way do you consider them bound to know the history and pursuits of the person to whom they were directed to consign them at the Gallinas?—I should certainly think they are bound to be cautious that they did nothing contrary to the laws of the country in which they were residing.

7163. But unless they knew that those goods were to be applied for the purchase of slaves on the coast of Africa, in what way do you consider them bound to exercise any caution, and above all, to refuse to comply with the orders of their correspondents?—I certainly think they are bound to use every caution that they do not act contrary to law.

7164. Who were the parties to whom they were consigned at the Gallinas?—The goods were consigned to be delivered to Don José Alvarez, and Don Angel Ximenes, and Don José Perez Rola, all noted slave dealers.

7165. Chairman.] Have Messrs. Zulueta direct intercourse with the coast of Africa themselves, as merchants, or are they only agents?—I have never met a vessel belonging to Messrs. Zulueta & Co. on the coast of Africa.

7166. They are shipping agents in England, obeying orders given them by their correspondents abroad?—I have never known Zulueta & Co. to be employed in any mercantile transactions on the coast of Africa, except with regard to Spanish slave merchants. I have never seen their names in any vessels that I have boarded, engaged in innocent traffic.

7167. Do you conceive that a shipping agent is bound to make himself acquainted with the pursuits of the parties to whom he ships lawful goods?—I think, as far as regards the slave trade on the coast of Africa, it is the duty of a merchant residing in England, to be cautious that he does not do any thing that will at all be acting contrary to the Act of Parliament for the Abolition of the Slave Trade.

7168. Supposing he had consigned goods to the Bight of Benin, for instance, where many of the greatest dealers in produce have been till lately dealers in slaves; can you conceive that he would have been engaging in unlawful traffic in complying with such orders from his correspondent?—If the goods were to be consigned to a port where innocent traffic was carried on, and to merchants who carried on that traffic as well as the slave trade, of course it would admit of great doubt to what purpose those goods would be applied; but, in this case, the goods being consigned to those three people at the Gallinas, a port where no trade but the slave trade has been carried on for a considerable number of years, I think it materially alters the position of the parties in the shipping of the goods.

7169. Then the innocence or otherwise of the transaction depends, in your opinion, upon the knowledge on the part of the shipping agent in England of the exclusively slave-dealing character, of the trade carried on from any point of the coast of Africa to which the goods may be consigned?—I think not exactly.

7170. Supposing the Gallinas had carried on a trade to the extent of 100 pieces of ivory annually, would that have been an innocent transaction which you now consider to have been a culpable one?—I think it might admit of a doubt whether there was a possibility of the goods shipped being employed in innocent traffic; but I think, being shipped to a place like the Gallinas, there can be no doubt whatever to what purpose the goods would be applied.

7171. Is not the nature of the traffic carried on from different points of the coast of Africa, shifting and varying from time to time; at one time exclusively in slave dealing, at other times partly in slave dealing and partly in produce; and at other times wholly in produce; according as the efforts of the English merchants have prevailed more or less. Would it not, therefore, according to this view, require constant reports to the shipper in England of the state for the year of the different points of trade on the coast of Africa, to enable him to know whether he could with safety carry on trade with any one place?—I think the slave trade has been at the point to which the vessel in question was consigned to deliver her cargo, so fully established, that it can admit of no doubt whatever as to the trade in which that vessel was employed. But it may happen, at many places on the coast, that a doubt might exist. For instance, if a merchant were established on the coast, carrying on the joint traffic of exchange of the produce of the country as well as the slave trade, it certainly would admit of a doubt. But I think it is the business of the merchant residing in England to make himself acquainted with the character of the persons on the coast of Africa to whom he makes consignments, especially seeing the attempts that are making and have been made for the suppression of the slave trade.

7172. You observe that the case in question is not the case of a merchant carrying on a direct trade with a slave dealer, but a merchant obeying the orders of his correspondent, to make consignments merely as his shipping agent?—I think myself it depends in a great measure upon the place to which the cargo is to be delivered. I think at New Cestos, for example, there might be a doubt to what trade the cargo would be applied; but there are many cases which will not admit of a doubt. Now if a merchant has been in the habit of acting as agent to a foreign house for a length of time, I think he must somehow acquire a knowledge of the trade which this foreign merchant is embarked in. I think it becomes the duty of the merchant to endeavour to make some inquiry, because the Act of Parliament is very decisive; it says, “Or in any other manner to engage or contract to engage directly or indirectly therein as a partner, agent or otherwise, or to ship, tranship, lade, receive or put on board, or to contract for the shipping, transhipping, lading, receiving or putting on board of any ship, vessel or boat, money, goods or effects to be employed in accomplishing any of the objects or the contracts in relation to the objects, which objects and contracts have hereinbefore been declared unlawful.” The law is very decisive.

7173. Mr. Forster.] What are the objects and contracts which have been previously declared unlawful?—“For any persons to deal or trade in, purchase, sell, barter, or transfer, or to contract for the dealing or trading in, purchase, sale, barter, or transfer of slaves or persons intended to be dealt with as slaves.”

7174. Do you consider the lawful shipping of goods at Liverpool a dealing in slaves?—A lawful shipment of goods cannot be unlawful.

7175. But if the shipment had not been lawful, would not the custom-house officers at Liverpool have seized the goods?—It is possible that the custom-house officers at Liverpool may be ignorant of what caused the shipment of the goods to be unlawful.

7176. But the custom-house officers cannot be ignorant whether the goods which they pass at Liverpool are lawfully shipped?—The parties and the port to which the goods are to be delivered of course stamp the character of the trade in which they are sent out.

7177. Chairman.] Would it be convenient if the custom-house officers were informed from time to time to what ports vessels might clear with safety, and to what they might not?—I think in the case of such a port as the Gallinas, it would have been convenient, and perhaps have been attended with some benefit, had the custom-house officers in our different ports in England been made acquainted with the trade that was there carried on, to prevent goods being shipped direct for that port; but that again would be evaded by shipping goods, as is frequently done, for the coast of Africa, without specifying any port.

7178. Do you conceive that the destruction of the barracoons is very effectual in putting down the slave trade?—I think that in many cases it would be attended with great benefit to the suppression of the slave trade, almost in every instance; but great care should be exercised in doing it.

7179. In what respects?—That the establishments should be decidedly ascertained to be slaving establishments, so as not to destroy any establishments that might be erected where innocent traffic was carried on, but only the slaving establishments that were bonâ fide for the express purpose of slaving.

7180. Have you found any feeling of irritation created among the natives upon the coast by that mode of proceeding?—No; I was frequently at the Gallinas after the barracoons at the Gallinas were destroyed, and I thought a good feeling was springing up amongst the chiefs for the establishment of commerce and the cultivation of their soil. They certainly expressed a wish that the barracoons and the slaving establishments in the neighbouring states should be destroyed as well as their own.

7181. Do you conceive that the slave trade is popular with the natives of all classes, or that its profits are principally confined to the chiefs?—I think it is popular with the natives of all classes.

7182. Mr. Forster.] If it is popular with all classes, how do you account for their expressing a wish that the barracoons should be destroyed?—That followed after their own barracoons had been destroyed; they wished their neighbours’ barracoons to be destroyed likewise; they expressed their delight very openly when I went to the Gallinas after the establishments at Sea-bar had been destroyed.

7183. Supposing them to feel any irritation upon the subject, do you think it likely that it would be to the officer of a ship of war that they would communicate those feelings?—Perhaps not, directly; but I think the officers on being on shore would very easily observe if their feelings were unfavourable.

7184. Chairman.] Had you any communication with the slave dealers themselves upon the subject of this method of putting down the slave trade?—Yes; I saw, I think, the most intelligent of the slave dealers that were established at the Gallinas, I think it was Don Angel Ximenes, who told me that it was impossible for him to carry on the slave trade, if this plan was followed up; that he was ruined by it; and that he intended immediately going to America, and that he had recommended the other slave dealers to do the same. Two or three of them, I know, left Africa immediately, and one other man left the Gallinas territory and settled in the neighbouring states, with the intention of trying to carry on the slave trade again.

7185. Has the introduction of the Equipment Article led, as a matter of necessity, to carrying on the slave trade by the collection of slaves in barracoons, ready for the descent of any slaver, who can no longer now hover in sight, and remain waiting for the collection of slaves during its stay there?—Yes; slave vessels now come across from the Havannah in every way ready equipped for embarking their slaves at an hour’s notice; they appear off the coast, and in one or two instances, I have heard that in two hours their cargoes have been put on board them.

7186. Barracoons have now become an essential part of the existing system of the slave trade?—They have always had barracoons.

7187. Mr. Milnes.] Do you think the slave trade is popular among the lower classes?—Yes, I think it is in those parts of Africa where they have known no other trade; that has been the trade by which they have derived all the principal articles that have almost become necessary to them.

7188. Chairman.] Have you seen instances where, upon the extinction of the slave trade, legitimate trade has taken its place?—I heard various reports of its having done so at the Bonny and at Benin; at the Bonny particularly. Again, Mr. Spence, in the River St. George’s, established himself and introduced innocent trade, and I believe totally expelled the slave dealers; it had a very beneficial effect in those three places.

7189. Was that a case where lawful traffic had the effect, without the assistance of cruizers, of expelling the slave trade, or was it in co-operation with them?—I think in co-operation with the cruizers. Mr. Spence took a great deal of pains, and if he had known of a slave vessel coming into St. George’s, he would have immediately informed the cruizers, and in fact he had so much influence with the chiefs immediately around him, that he prevented them from carrying on the slave trade. The slave trade cannot be carried on without the sanction of the chief, and in fact in almost every case it is done by the chief of the district himself; he is the principal slave dealer, receiving a certain emolument from the slave dealers coming to his place to trade.

7190. When you speak of the co-operation of the cruizers with Mr. Spence’s efforts, you mean that the cruizers protected Mr. Spence in his operations, but not that they were preventing the slave trade at the time by a blockade?—Exactly.

7191. Have you heard since the destruction of the slave factory at the Gallinas, or at Sea-bar, whether lawful trade has taken the place of the slave trade?—When I was last at the Gallinas, one of the chiefs showed me a sample of cotton that he was cultivating, and he promised that he would collect as much as he could for the purpose of carrying on innocent trade: he had then, I think, at the time I am speaking of, six or eight large packages in his house, and he said, that in the course of time, he could produce any quantity. He seemed to be honest in his intentions.

7192. Viscount Courtenay.] Was it wild or cultivated cotton?—He told me that he had cultivated it; and it appeared to me to be particularly good; it was much finer than any I have seen elsewhere.

7193. Mr. Aldam.] Did you see any cotton cultivated?—No, I did not see any cultivated; this was up the country, 10 or 12 miles up the Gallinas River.

7194. Would it be practicable to collect a considerable quantity of wild cotton?—No; I think the wild cotton is so much scattered, that without cultivation they could not collect any quantity.

7195. Chairman.] Had you any conversation with the chief upon the advantage with which the people might be employed in raising produce rather than their being sold as slaves?—Frequently I endeavoured to instil into their minds the advantages they would derive from giving up the slave trade, and employing their own slaves in tilling the ground, and collecting cam wood, and any thing the country might produce. I think in many parts of the Gallinas the country is capable of being cultivated to a great extent. I am now speaking of King Siacca’s Town, which is 10 or 12 miles up the river.

7196. Do you think it would be of advantage, either for the suppression of the slave trade, or for the encouragement of the lawful trade to have factories or forts planted at particular points?—I think, decidedly; I think if factories were established along the coast, it would materially lead to the suppression of the slave trade, and also to the cultivation and improvement of Africa generally; I think particularly on the coast from Sierra Leone to Cape Mount, which has been the chief slavery district on that part of Africa.

7197. Have you had reason to know whether there would be facilities or otherwise for the purchase of sites for settlements of that description from the native chiefs?—I think there might be a little opposition made in the first instance, which might easily be overcome. I remember one of the chiefs of the Gallinas telling me that he would have no objection to see the English settle there; but others again did not seem so desirous of it. Again, at Cape Mount the chief was very anxious that the English should establish themselves, and carry on trade there; and when I was last at Cape Mount the English flag was flying. The American governor of Liberia came up, and was very desirous that the American flag should be likewise hoisted, which the chief refused; he showed a decided preference to the English.

7198. Is there a coasting traffic established along the coast to any degree from point to point, and is any part of it carried on by the liberated Africans of Sierra Leone?—I think not; I think the coasting trade of Sierra Leone to the southward does not extend beyond one or two towns in the Sherboro’ River, where they go for cam wood, which is particularly good there. To the northward the canoes trade to the River Scarcies, and occasionally, I think, as far as the Pongos. But those boats that go to the Pongos always incur the suspicion that they are all more or less carrying goods for the slave dealers in the Pongos; but as far as regards the immediate coasting trade of Sierra Leone, it is very much confined.

7199. You would be glad to see the services of a steamer secured for Sierra Leone?—I think it is absolutely necessary.

7200. Sir T. D. Acland.] And also for the Gambia?—And for the Gambia likewise. I think it is absolutely necessary for the Gambia, to communicate between St. Mary’s and M‘Carthy’s Island. For instance, it occurred while I was at the Gambia that information arrived from M‘Carthy’s Island of the natives having attacked the island, and before troops could be sent up, or I could get up in a sailing vessel, many days elapsed, where a steam-boat would have done it in a day and a half. Steam-boats would also be particularly useful for the suppression of the slave trade.

7201. Is there any other point besides Sierra Leone and the Gambia where you think they are particularly wanted?—I would say, generally along the coast, for the suppression of the slave trade, I should say that it would require half-a-dozen steamers to protect the coast between the Gambia and the southernmost slaving ports on the western coast of Africa.

7202. Where?—Down to Benguela. I think about half-a-dozen steam-boats would be sufficient.

7203. Sir R. H. Inglis.] What is the average passage by steam and the average passage by sailing vessels between the Bight of Benin and Sierra Leone?—It depends a great deal upon the season of the year. I think from the Bight of Benin to Sierra Leone the average passage in sailing vessels is about a month.

7204. Have you experience sufficient to enable you to state to the Committee the average passage by steam-vessels?—No, I have not.

7205. What is the extreme length of passage between the Bight of Benin and Sierra Leone in a sailing vessel; the question having reference particularly to a sailing vessel taking slaves on board for adjudication before the court at Sierra Leone?—I have heard of vessels being a very long time, three months; I think I remember slave vessels that have taken between two or three months to get up from the Bight of Benin to Sierra Leone; but I think that is a very rare occurrence; usually the passage is made in about a month.

7206. In all seasons?—In all seasons; I think a month is the average passage.

7207. Sir T. D. Acland.] What is the shortest?—I think I have heard of its being done in a fortnight.

7208. Sir R. H. Inglis.] What is the average passage across the Atlantic, from the Bight of Benin to the Havannah?—From five to six weeks; but I think it is done in less time; I think I remember a slaver telling me, that he did it in something less than a month, but I think from five to six weeks is the average passage; the great difficulty is getting immediately off the coast.

7209. Chairman.] Are the winds mostly on shore?—It depends a great deal on the season of the year.

7210. Would there be any difficulty in a vessel lying off Cape Palmas, if it were thought desirable, for the purpose of regulating any emigration that might proceed from those parts?—I think there would be no difficulty in a cruizer remaining off Cape Palmas; in lying at anchor there would be danger, but not in keeping under weigh.

7211. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you think that it would be possible for a naval officer to undertake the service of clearing vessels for the West Indies, having ascertained that the natives embarked on board came with their free will, without any fraud or compulsion?—I think the local authorities could do that better than a naval officer.

7212. The question refers to those parts where there are no local authorities; and it proceeds on the supposition that no vessel could be received with emigrants in the West Indies without a clearance from the British officer commanding a certain range of coast: could a British officer in the first place lie off and on, and in the next place, could he discharge the duty of ascertaining whether the emigrants on board any vessel submitted to his examination, were or were not engaged on that voyage without fraud or compulsion?—I think he would have no other means of ascertaining, but what he was told by the natives themselves.

7213. What course would he pursue; would he muster the emigrants on deck, and be able to ascertain from them the circumstances under which they were embarked?—Of course he would have to muster the negroes, and he would question each whether they embarked with their free will for the purpose of emigration; but to do that, he would require an interpreter, and perhaps amongst the number, there might be a great many who spoke different languages; therefore there would be as many interpreters required, as there were different languages; and after all, those people might declare that they had not been asked, and probably place the naval officer in a very awkward predicament. He would be subject entirely to the African, who might tell half-a-dozen different stories in the course of so many months. It would be a very difficult measure to carry out.

7214. Chairman.] If they were only to embark Kroomen or inhabitants of the coast, do you think he would have any difficulty in ascertaining whether they were free agents or otherwise?—With Kroomen or Fishmen, I think none whatever; because in the Kroo country and in the Fish country the slave trade is not carried on, or if it is carried on, it is so slight that we hardly know any thing about it.

7215. Mr. Aldam.] Is there more than one language spoken by the Kroomen and the Fishmen?—There is some difference of language, but still they understand one another.

7216. One interpreter would be sufficient with the Kroomen and the Fishmen?—I think so.

7217. Chairman.] Would the officer on the station be able to distinguish Kroomen and Fishmen from the natives of the interior?—Decidedly, any person could.

7218. So that if he were instructed to sanction the emigration only of Kroomen and Fishmen, he would be in no danger of confounding them with any other tribes?—No, they are so distinct a class; they are perfectly different from any other natives. They differ materially in appearance, and manners, and language, and every thing.

7219. Then if the emigration were confined to those classes, you do not apprehend that there would be any difficulty in preventing that emigration from assuming the character of slave trade?—I think there would be no difficulty in the Kroo country and in the Fish country. The difficulty would be on the part of the coast where the slave trade is known to have been carried on, and where, from the slave trade having been carried on, the different tribes are so very much intermixed.

7220. Sir T. D. Acland.] Could it in that case be done by the commander of a fort on shore, who if he had time, would be able to ascertain the facts?—I think it would be an undertaking of great trouble.

7221. Mr. Forster.] Have you made any other seizures on the coast of Africa than the Augusta?—Several.

7222. Did you seize a vessel called the Sénégambie at St. Mary’s?—Yes, I seized a vessel called the Sénégambie in the river Gambia.

7223. On what ground was that seizure made?—On account of being equipped for the slave trade.

7224. Were you aware at the time you seized her that she had been chartered by the governor of Senegal for the voyage in which she was engaged?—I do not know whether I knew that at the time of making the seizure, or whether it was immediately afterwards, but the impression upon my mind is, that the owner told me in the custom-house that he was going to Bissao for a cargo of negroes.

7225. Did he not show you his papers and engagements, or rather did you examine them yourself?—The papers of the vessel when I seized her were in the custom-house. The vessel had been in the port of St. Mary’s two or three days.

7226. Did you not examine the papers?—I went to the custom-house for the purpose of examining the papers, and there I met Mr. Marbeau, the owner of the vessel, who told me the vessel was going to Bissao for a cargo of negroes.

7227. Did he not inform you that the negroes were for the service of the French government?—Afterwards I received copies of an agreement entered into between Mr. Marbeau and the governor of Senegal, transmitted to me by the governor of St. Mary’s.

7228. When did you receive them?—While I was at St. Mary’s.

7229. Before or after you had seized the vessel?—I think two or three days after I had seized the vessel; but those papers are printed in the correspondence, and they give much better information upon the subject. I have nothing to guide me but my recollection.

7230. Were there any mechanics or persons on board of her from the shore, at the time you seized her?—Yes; there were some mechanics on board of her belonging to St. Mary’s, who were employed in caulking and fitting the vessel for her intended voyage. There were also on board of her three small children, who I thought were under most suspicious circumstances, belonging to St. Mary’s.

7231. Did you think the carpenters and caulkers, who were engaged on board the vessel from shore, were there under suspicious circumstances?—No, they were employed on board the vessel, fitting the vessel for her intended voyage to Bissao for a cargo of slaves. The Sénégambie was partly equipped for the slave trade; she was lying in a British port, equipping for a cargo of slaves, where she had been for two or three days; the equipments were quite sufficient to condemn her, and she was condemned at Sierra Leone. She was absolutely lying in a British port equipping; she was to get provisions, and she had carpenters and men at work upon her belonging to the colony.

7232. Sir T. D. Acland.] Was she preparing false decks?—The slave-deck was partly laid, not wholly laid; she was being generally equipped for the voyage she was going on.

7233. Chairman.] Were the carpenters laying the slave-deck?—I cannot say exactly what the carpenters were doing; I did not see them laying the slave-deck; but she was fitting out for her intended voyage to Bissao. There was a slave-deck partly laid, and part of it to be laid, and I believe they would have finished it.

7234. Were the planks ready for completing the slave-deck lying there?—I think they were.

7235. Sir R. H. Inglis.] But you are certain that part of her slave-deck was laid?—Yes.

7236. Sir T. D. Acland.] Did you seize her upon the ground of her partial equipment?—Her equipment was the ground upon which I seized her.

7237. Chairman.] And it was the ground of her subsequent condemnation?—It was; the equipment was perfectly proved.

7238. Mr. Forster.] Do you wish the Committee to understand that that vessel was chartered by the governor of Senegal for a voyage to Bissao, and that she was not fitted out for that voyage at Senegal?—That I cannot say; I found her partly equipped, and lying in a British port, equipping for her intended voyage. She was so far equipped for the slave trade that there were ample grounds for my seizing her; and she was there caulking, fitting, and preparing for sea. She was to receive provisions for her intended voyage from the colony of St. Mary’s; at least, so I was informed by the supercargo.

7239. How do you account for the vessel coming from the neighbouring French settlement of Senegal to fit out for the purpose of receiving those negroes at the Gambia?—It is a most extraordinary thing, in my mind, that a vessel should sail from a French port, only distant 50 or 60 miles, and come to an English port, and there remain for two or three days, with people at work upon her, caulking and repairing her, and fitting her for sea.

7240. Mr. Aldam.] Had she had bad weather?—No, nothing at all of the sort; by the vessel’s papers she was not out of Goree more than one day before she arrived at the Gambia; I think less than one day.

7241. Mr. Forster.] Do you wish the Committee to understand that the vessel did not arrive at the Gambia with all her fittings for the voyage?—I have before stated that the vessel was lying in the Gambia, caulking and equipping for her intended voyage. It is impossible for me to state whether she brought her slave-deck with her to the Gambia, or whether she procured her slave-deck at the Gambia; but if she came to the Gambia with all those equipments on board, I would ask what can be thought of our custom-house officers at the Gambia?

7242. Do you think the custom-house officers at the Gambia would very readily conceive themselves entitled to seize a French vessel, chartered by the governor of Senegal?—The vessel being chartered by the governor of Senegal could have nothing to do with the laws that prevail in a British port. The French governor of Senegal cannot be regarded in an English port; our own laws are what are to govern our officers. The custom-house officers’ duty was to seize a vessel that was acting contrary to the laws of a British port.

7243. Therefore you think it was no excuse for the custom-house officers that she was employed in the service of the French government?—None whatever, because the custom-house officers, in all probability, would be perfectly ignorant of that circumstance, as I was myself. I seized her, and I was not aware she was employed by the French government till I had seized her one or two days.

7244. Sir R. H. Inglis.] The last question, and your last answer, have assumed that the vessel was employed in the service of the French government; is that what you wish the Committee to understand in respect of a vessel chartered by the governor of Senegal: might it not have been a speculation, on the part of the governor, as an individual, not involving any responsibility on the part of the government of France?—Undoubtedly it is very possible that it might have been a speculation on the part of the governor of Senegal without the knowledge of the French government; but in the case of a vessel equipped for the slave trade in a British port, whether she is employed by the governor of Senegal, or the governor of Bissao, or the governor of any nation, cannot in any way affect our laws.

7245. Mr. Aldam.] Was this vessel, which was fitted up for the purpose of procuring negroes for the French service, fitted up as an ordinary slave ship?—As an ordinary slave ship.

7246. There were the same means of restraint?—Precisely; iron bars across the hatchway, and the usual equipment of a slave vessel.

7247. So that it appeared that men were intended to be kept under restraint upon the voyage?—Certainly.

7248. Mr. Forster.] Were there any slave-irons on board?—I do not at this period remember very minutely her equipment, but there was quite sufficient ground to authorise my seizing the vessel.

7249. What were those carpenters doing on board?—They were at work upon the vessel.

7250. Can you describe the work they were doing?—I cannot do that: they were performing their work as carpenters.

7251. Chairman.] Do you recollect whether they were caulking outside, or performing work inside the vessel?—I saw them at work, but I do not remember whether they were caulking the outside or the inside; but I see in my report that she had caulkers on board belonging to St. Mary’s, who were caulking and equipping her.

7252. Mr. Forster.] When you found that those carpenters belonged to St. Mary’s, did you send them on shore?—No, most assuredly not.

7253. Did you seize them with the vessel?—I sent them up with the vessel to Sierra Leone, and put them into the court with the vessel; and with respect to the three children that were on board, I considered, from their age, that they could be in no way connected with the equipping of the vessel, or otherwise concerned in the vessel beyond a general suspicion arising in my mind of what was intended to be done with those children, and I therefore sent them on shore to the governor of the Gambia, that he might make such inquiry respecting those children as he might judge proper.

7254. Did you consider that those carpenters, working for hire on board a vessel in the harbour, were justly chargeable with a participation in the slave trade?—They were found on board the vessel, and I considered it was necessary that I should send them with the vessel before the Vice-Admiralty Court.

7255. Did you consider them as assisting in the equipment of the vessel?—They were assisting in the equipment of the vessel, and it was with that view I sent them up; and, moreover, their evidence, if the court had required it, would have been necessary to show that the vessel was absolutely equipping in a British port; but perhaps the vessel would have been condemned without it.

7256. What was the result of the trial?—The vessel was condemned.

7257. Mr. Forster.] If the vessel was so fully equipped for the purposes of the slave trade, as you stated, how could the evidence of those carpenters be necessary at Sierra Leone?—I have stated that the vessel was partly equipped, and was completing her equipment in the port of St. Mary’s; those carpenters being on board, I considered that it was necessary that I should send them to Sierra Leone for the court to decide in what way they were punishable.

7258. Were not representations made to you from the shore that those people were carpenters belonging to the settlement, hired by the master of the vessel, and in no way answerable for his proceedings, or for the destination of the vessel?—No official representation was made to me; perhaps some merchant, or some person connected with some mercantile houses on shore might have told me so, but I certainly paid no attention to it, nor did I consider myself bound to pay attention to any thing of the sort. Had an official representation been made to me from the governor, of course it would require my greatest attention; but if an officer in the execution of his duty is to be guided by every person that he may meet in the settlement telling him this, that, or the other, there would be no possibility of his ever performing his duty.

7259. But at all events you knew that they were native workmen, belonging to the British settlement at the Gambia?—Yes; I knew that from their own story. I sent them up with the vessel, and put them into court with the vessel, and moreover acquainted the lieutenant-governor of the Gambia officially that I intended doing so.

7260. Were they put in prison upon their arrival at Sierra Leone?—I was not at Sierra Leone when the vessel arrived. To the best of my knowledge they were confined about a month.

7261. Chairman.] Were they condemned?—I do not know.

7262. Mr. Aldam.] Were they confined preparatory to trial, or after sentence?—I forget, for I was not at Sierra Leone at the time; but I believe it was the Vice-Admiralty Court that confined them.

7263. Mr. Forster.] Do you know whether the carpenters were tried or not?—I do not know; I was not at Sierra Leone during the trial of the vessel, but I believe I arrived at Sierra Leone the very day that the vessel was condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court.

7264. Did you make no inquiry as to the fate of those carpenters?—No, I did not, because I left Sierra Leone, I think, the day after the vessel was condemned, for Portendique, and I had no time to make inquiry on either of the two days that I was at Sierra Leone. I knew that the vessel was before the Vice-Admiralty Court who would decide upon the merits of the case.

7265. Was there a French gentleman also on board the vessel when you seized her?—There was a French person on board, whom I believed to be the supercargo, and, I rather think, was the brother of Mr. Marbeau.

7266. Did you find that he was the supercargo of the vessel?—He told me that he was the supercargo; and I believe that he was the brother of Mr. Marbeau, the owner.

7267. Was he not a passenger from Senegal to the Gambia?—It is impossible for me to say what he was.

7268. Had he been on shore at the Gambia previously to your seizing the vessel?—It is impossible for me to say.

7269. Did you carry a French gentleman from the Gambia to Sierra Leone, without making inquiry into his character and pursuits, and his connexion with that vessel?—All persons who were found on board the vessel, as I have before stated, with the exception of three black children, I sent to Sierra Leone, because I could not tell, of course, what he was doing in the vessel; he might be a French gentleman, or he might be there for the purpose of purchasing slaves; or he might be, for what I could tell, the very person who had got on board the three children, who, I have before stated, I thought were placed in a very suspicious position. My duty was to send everybody found in the vessel I had captured, on the suspicion of slave dealing, before the court appointed to adjudicate upon such cases.

7270. How did you consider him to be connected with those three children?—What I stated was, that he might be; I have not said that he was; I stated that I knew nothing about him, but finding him in the slave vessel, I sent him with the slave vessel before the court.

7271. You sent the three children on shore?—Yes; everybody else I sent before the court; and if any person in the world had been on board the vessel I should have sent him in the same way; if an English merchant had been on board, that merchant would have gone with the vessel likewise before the court; the court is to decide upon the legality or illegality of the conduct of persons found under such circumstances.

7272. Chairman.] You conceive that that vessel, by her equipment was clearly seizable, as engaged in the slave trade?—Yes, or else I should not have seized her; I took upon myself a great responsibility in seizing her.

7273. And under those circumstances you felt yourself called upon to send every person found on board the vessel for adjudication before the proper court?—Yes; if I had not done so, I should have conceived that I laid myself open to the charge of not doing my duty.

7274. Sir T. D. Acland.] When you find a vessel reasonably suspected of being engaged in the slave trade, you think those who are found on board are liable to the same suspicion?—In the case of a vessel seized amenable to the British law.

7275. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Did you not find on board the vessel a contract between Marbeau and Pellett on the one hand, and the French governor on the other, to deliver a certain number of “passengers” at Goree?—This contract for “Blacks” was forwarded to me by the lieutenant-governor of the Gambia, one or two days after I had made the seizure, which contract I sent to the Vice-Admiralty court, with the vessel; every paper connected with the vessel, as well as the contract, was laid before the court.

7276. Mr. Forster.] Were you aware that she was engaged by the French government before you sent her from the Gambia?—I had seen this contract, which was entered into by the French governor of Senegal, but not the French government.

7277. Was the French gentleman, M. Pellett, put in prison also upon his arrival at Sierra Leone?—I have stated that I know not what was done by the court at Sierra Leone. Not being in Sierra Leone at the time the vessel was at Sierra Leone, I cannot say; but, to the best of my belief, the whole of them were put in prison.

7278. Sir T. D. Acland.] Have you known instances of persons in authority under other governments being engaged in slave dealing?—The charge has been frequently repeated very strongly of the governor of Bissao being engaged very frequently in slave dealing, and I verily believe it myself, because I have frequently detected vessels with papers given by the governor of Bissao, which vessels were equipped in every way for being engaged in the slave trade; and I have also some recollection of some papers being found from the governor of Bissao, detailing how some slaves that he had sent from Bissao were to be disposed of.

7279. That slave dealing being contrary to the law of his own country?—That slave dealing being contrary to the treaty between England and Portugal.

7280. Therefore the mere fact of finding the name of a governor upon the papers would not be a complete warrant for the lawfulness of the traffic in which the vessel was engaged?—I should pay great respect to the name of the French governor, but I should be very cautious how I regarded the name of the governor of Bissao, because I have seen so many instances of papers in which his name has been used to cover slaving transactions.

7281. Mr. Forster.] Was the captain of the Sénégambie a black or a white man?—I think a black man was represented to me as the captain.

7282. Mr. Aldam.] You spoke of the desirableness of having forts upon the African coast, upon the territory of the native chiefs. What establishment would it be necessary to have in any such fort?—I should think if the forts were small and well built, a very few men would be sufficient; I should fancy the best form of fort to be erected would be a Martello tower, that they might have one gun upon a pivot, so that for the defence of the fort it would require very few men.

7283. How many whites?—I should say half white and half black; I should say a dozen men altogether.

7284.—Would not one or two white officers be sufficient, the rest of the men being black?—That would do if you could insure white officers living, but the danger is of one dying, and in that case to whom would the charge of the fort devolve. It would be necessary to have a sufficient number of white people, that you might always insure one person to be in command.

7285. Are there no sub-officers blacks, whom you might entrust with a command of that kind, subject to the visits of the captains of men-of-war upon the station?—I think not at present; I think Africa would require to be much further advanced in civilization before it would be prudent to trust a fort entirely to black men.

7286. And it would generally happen that those forts would be built upon an unhealthy part of the coast?—It is almost impossible to select any part of the coast of Africa as being healthy. One spot may be more healthy this season than another; but there is very little difference upon the coast. The coast of Africa, from the Kroo country up to Senegal, is generally composed of a low swampy mangrove line of coast. Those mangroves extend frequently from 25 to 30 miles into the interior. There are spots like Sierra Leone, Cape Verde, and Cape Mount, where you can find high land; but generally speaking it is all a swampy mangrove coast.

7287. The spots you would select for those forts for commercial purposes would generally happen to be unhealthy?—It would naturally so occur, because they would require to be near the mouths of the principal rivers, for drawing the exports down from the interior; but I should think that the communication would be drawn down better from the interior by opening some communication, or making an agreement or treaty with some of the inland powerful chiefs, such as the Foolahs, who are by far the most enlightened race that I have seen, and much more advanced towards civilization than the people in any other part of Africa that I have been in.

7288. Sir T. D. Acland.] Does Teembo belong to them?—Yes.

7289. Mr. Aldam.] Would you contemplate in that case having a fort some distance up the river?—No; in the River Nunez, to which I allude with respect to the Foolahs, I do not think it would be necessary, because the petty chiefs immediately at the mouth of the Nunez, who are now likely to give trouble, would be kept in order by them; I think a treaty entered into with the Foolah chief, would in a great measure ensure our trade with the Foolah country. Through the means of the Foolah chief we should be enabled to carry on trade independent of the petty chiefs, through whose territory the trade now has to pass.

7290. What kind of treaty would you make with those chiefs?—The object of it would be to bind the Foolah chief down to afford protection and security to our commerce, and to people settling in his country, for the purpose of carrying on trade.

7291. And you think it would be easy to obtain such a treaty?—I think so; I judge from the opinion given me by a Foolah chief, whom I met in the Nunez, and who expressed himself desirous that the white people should not leave the River Nunez, and said that he would be very happy to escort me up to Teembo, that the Foolah Almaamy would be very happy to see me.

7292. Over what extent of country would the influence of this chief extend?—The Foolah country is now very extensive. The kingdom of Kikandy is in some measure tributary to the Foolah country.

7293. Mr. Forster.] Were you at Sierra Leone when the affair of the Hamburgh vessel, the Echo, took place?—I was at Sierra Leone while the Echo was there.

7294. Did you apply to the captain of the Echo for some of his crew?—I met some of the crew of the Echo, who came to me and expressed a wish to enter the Saracen for Her Majesty’s service, and on meeting the captain of the Echo, I mentioned to him that those people had done so; but I had no idea of entering the crew, as they were all foreigners.

7295. Sir T. D. Acland.] How far is the Nunez navigable?—For vessels drawing 10 feet water to Debucca, a distance of 50 or 60 miles; and for large canoes I should think much higher.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Select Committee on West Coast of Africa.
R. R. Gibbons, Esq. to Messrs. Zulueta & Co.

Gentlemen, July 15th, 1842.

I send you herewith a copy of evidence given by Captain Hill, of a later date than that I sent on a previous occasion.

I am, &c.

(signed) R. R. Gibbons.

Lunæ, 4º die Julii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.

Captain Fitzroy.
Mr. W. Hamilton.

Viscount Sandon, in the chair.

Captain Henry Worsley Hill, called in; and further Examined.

7958*. Chairman.] Have you something which you wish to add to your evidence on the case of the Augusta?—Yes; I wish to state, with respect to my detaining the Augusta, the grounds on which the seizure was made, as far as my memory will admit of my going, and I feel myself at liberty to disclose to the Committee. On going on board the Augusta, amongst the letters and papers that were seized by me, I found a letter, dated “London, 20th August 1840.” This letter is a reply to a letter written by Captain Jennings from Portsmouth, stating, “We cannot exceed 500l. for the vessel in question, such as described in your letter; if you cannot, therefore, succeed at those limits, we must give up the purchase.” This letter is signed Zulueta & Co. By this letter, it certainly appears to me that the vessel was purchased by Zulueta &, Co., or intended to be purchased by that firm. The next letter is dated “London, 26th of September 1840,” addressed to Captain Thomas Jennings, Portsmouth; the signature of this letter was cut out on my finding it. It acknowledged the receipt of Captain Jenning’s letter of the following day, observing “that the sum remitted would not be sufficient to cover the expenses, to clear the ship, and requesting that Captain Jennings would write the next day, stating the sum that was necessary, that it might be forwarded to him by the post of Monday night, to enable the ship to sail for Liverpool on Tuesday or Wednesday at furthest.” The signature cut out. But there is a note to the letter: “According to our Liverpool mode, note, you will go on shore to the Salt House Dock.” The next paper I would allude to, is the charter-party of the vessel, dated London, 19th October 1840, wherein it is mutually agreed, between Mr. Thomas Jennings, master and owner of the good ship or vessel called the Augusta, and Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. of Havannah, that the ship shall load from the factories of the said Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. a cargo of legal goods, and shall proceed therewith to Gallinas, on the coast of Africa, and there deliver the same; after which she may be sent on any legal voyage between the West Indies, England, Africa, or the United States, according to the directions of the charterer’s agents. The freight to be paid on unloading and right delivery of the cargo, at the rate of 100l. sterling per calendar month. The necessary cash for the ship’s disbursements to be furnished to the captain free of commission; the captain being indebted to the charterers in certain sums, as per acknowledgment elsewhere. The freight earned by the vessel to be held as general lien for such sums.” This is signed Thomas Jennings, for Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. of Havannah, Zulueta & Co.

7959*. Jennings is the owner of the vessels?—Yes.

7960*. And Zulueta appears as the agent to Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co., chartering Jenning’s vessel for certain purposes?—Yes; by the extract from the first letter it appears that Zulueta bought the vessel; by the second letter he pays the expenses of the vessel; but the charter-party is made out by Thomas Jennings, as the owner of the vessel.

7961*. Sir T. D. Acland.] Then Zulueta acts as agent for Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co.?—Yes; the next paper, I will read the extract from is marked “Additional Memorandum of Charter-party;” which commences, “I Thomas Jennings, captain and owner of the ship Augusta, declare I have received from Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. of this city, 1,100l. sterling, for the disbursements of the said ship, the fitting out and provisions, which I engage myself to repay, with the earnings of the same, namely, all the earnings of the ship, will be accounted for and applied to the said Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co., they furnishing the cash for all expenses, crew’s wages (including 15l. per month for my salary as captain). At any time when the said gentlemen may think proper to close the charter-party, I will deliver to them, or their representative, a bill of sale for the said ship, and all her appurtenances, to cover the balance due to them in the said account.” It states, that Mr. Thomas Jennings is no way responsible for the settlement of the above-mentioned debt, but with the said ship and her earnings, and that Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. will take on themselves the insurance and risk on the vessel. This paper is dated London, 21st October, 1840, and signed “Thomas Jennings.” The next paper is the bill of lading, which states the cargo to be shipped by Thomas Jennings, of Liverpool, in the Augusta, lying in the port of Liverpool and bound to Gallinas: 20 hogsheads of tobacco, 60 cases of arms, one case of looking-glasses, 10 casks copper ware, 134 bales of merchandize, 1,600 iron pots, 2,370 kegs of gunpowder, to be delivered at Gallinas to Don Alvarez, Don Angel Ximenez, and Don Jose Perez Rolla. This is dated Liverpool, 10th November 1840. The vessel had no register, but a sailing licence from the Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Customs, wherein Thomas Jennings, of No. 2, James-street, Limehouse, is represented to be the owner, and that the vessel is to be employed in foreign trade. There is also an account current between Messrs. Zulueta with Thomas Jennings, master of the Augusta, amounting to 339l. 16s. 9d., the chief part of which is for the disbursements of the vessel. I further state to the Committee, that ten letters were found on board this vessel, dated Cadiz, and addressed to three notorious slave merchants at Gallinas: in one of these letters, addressed to Señor Ignacio Perez Rolla, at Gallinas, dated Cadiz, 30th November 1840, is a paragraph to the following effect: “In a letter, dated London the 21st instant, which I have just received from Messrs. Zulueta & Co., merchants, in London, I had the pleasure of receiving a bill drawn by you on them for 250l., which I this day place to their credit, waiting your advice of the same.” This letter is signed “M.” but no name. The other letters were all on slave business; not a word of any innocent trade, but the whole directing how slaves were to be shipped on board various vessels.

7962*. Who were they signed by?—All signed in the same way.

7963*. Signed “M.”?—Yes, and to the best of my recollection, every vessel to which they referred was captured by Captain Denman and myself.

7964*. Where were these letters dated from?—From Cadiz; the Vanguardia was captured by Captain Denman; the Uracca by myself, the Diana also; the other vessel referred to in the letters is the Gabriel, which vessel fired upon the boats of Her Majesty’s vessel Termagant, killing three or four of her crew, and has been since captured by the Acorn, Captain Adams. Therefore these letters at once show that the three persons to whom they were addressed, residing at Gallinas, and who were the parties to whom the Augusta was consigned, were most extensively engaged in slave dealing. No other letters were found on board the Augusta but those that related to slave dealing.

7965*. The Augusta had touched at Cadiz on her way out from England?—Yes, and landed part of her cargo at Cadiz, although it was consigned to be delivered at Gallinas.

7966*. What are the inferences that you draw from these papers?—That Zulueta, by the letter of the 20th of August, 1840, advanced the money for the purchase of the vessel; that by the letter of the 26th of September, that Zulueta advanced the money to defray her expenses and fitting out, necessary before she proceeded to sea; that Mr. Jennings was put in as the owner, when in fact he was not the owner; that Zulueta was perfectly aware of this, and that he chartered the vessel to carry a cargo on behalf of Messrs. Pedro Martinez & Co. of Havannah, a notorious slave dealer, which cargo was to be delivered to three notorious slave dealers at the Gallinas; that afterwards these notorious slave dealers at Gallinas were to have the direction of the vessel for the future proceedings; and, moreover, that at any time Messrs. Martinez, or their agents, thought proper to close the charter party, the vessel was to be given up to their agents, by which means, a ship bearing English colours was certainly employed by notorious slave dealers; she was to be directed in her voyage by slave dealers; and she was, at any time these notorious slave dealers thought proper to name, to be given up to them entirely. This transaction, with the purchase of the vessel, and a person put in as the nominal owner who was not the owner, cannot but stamp a character that the vessel was engaged, with the knowledge of Zulueta, in some trade that they were desirous should not be discovered.

7967*. Mr. Forster.] Inform the Committee in what way you connect Messrs. Zulueta & Co. illegally with any improper transaction there, or what part of the transaction which you have detailed it was not competent for foreign merchants to perform as agents in this country; mention which part they were not bound to perform, provided they received instructions from their agents at Havannah to do it, having money in their hands to make a purchase of the vessel and ship the goods?—Messrs. Zulueta must be aware that it is contrary to law to act as agents, or otherwise, for the shipment of goods that are to be employed in the slave trade; they were bound to do no thing illegal; they are merchants residing in England, and they must conform themselves to the laws of England, and they cannot, by the laws of England, plead ignorance of those laws.

7968*. Chairman.] You conceive it would be unlawful for an agent in this country to ship goods to be employed in the slave trade?—Yes.

7969*. Mr. Forster.] How is a merchant acting in this country in pursuance of orders from his correspondent abroad to know what that correspondent means to do with the goods which he purchases on his account and ships at Liverpool?—In this case I think it is plain that Messrs. Zulueta entered into a scheme for chartering and purchasing a vessel, and putting in an owner, and establishing a British character to a vessel that he could not be ignorant was to be engaged in the slave trade, or in some trade which, for reasons that Messrs. Martinez may have, that they wished to keep in the back ground, and that secrecy alone ought to have called from Messrs. Zulueta a degree of vigilance, and more particularly a vessel being bound to a place on the coast of Africa, where, if they had taken the slightest trouble in the world, they must have known there were no constituted authorities or custom-house officers, or any persons of an European nation who could ascertain if she was engaged in legal trade.

7970*. Then, in fact, you think it is imperative on the English merchant, before he executes the orders of his foreign correspondent, in any matter relating to the trade between Brazils, Cuba, and the coast of Africa, to send out and inquire the character of the party with whom the transaction is connected on the coast of Africa?—I have stated nothing of the sort; but I have endeavoured to be particular in making it appear that this vessel was chartered to a place where there were no constituted authorities. A vessel to be chartered to the Brazils or Cuba, or any country where authorities existed in the colony of a recognized nation, would materially alter the position of Messrs. Zulueta; but Messrs. Zulueta, as I before stated, residing in England, it became the duty of that house to be guarded that they did not break the laws.

7971*. Do you speak of this as a matter of prudence and taste on the part of Zulueta & Co., or as an act of criminality?—As far as I am able to give my own opinion, I believe that Messrs. Zulueta were perfectly criminal; at least they had a perfect knowledge of what they were doing. I think I am borne out in that by the secrecy they have endeavoured to purchase, and putting in a false owner. Messrs. Zulueta have been for a number of years agents to the notorious Pedro Blanco; they have also before this purchased and sent out to the Havannah a notorious slave vessel called the Arrogante, which circumstance was represented by Mr. Tolme, Her Majesty’s consul at the Havannah, to the English Government, and is also in the printed correspondence laid before parliament, either for the year 1839 or 1840. In fact, there can be no want of evidence to show that Messrs. Zulueta had for a length of time been agents to slave dealers; and I think it is impossible that any merchant can be an agent and ship cargoes of goods without ascertaining some knowledge of the party for whom they are shipped.

7972*. in the first place, you assume that it was illegal for Messrs. Zulueta & Co. to ship these goods to Alvarez at the Gallinas; are you quite sure that that is not a gratuitous assumption of law on your part?—I am speaking from my own belief; I cannot say what the law is, but I am speaking from my own belief, and the inferences I can draw from the vessel’s papers. I think the papers are quite conclusive to the mind of any man that Zulueta was cognizant of what he was doing; but as far as it is an illegal transaction it is not for me to judge, but the judge of the Vice-Admiralty Court of Sierra Leone did think it illegal, and condemned the vessel; and, moreover, the man who is put forward as captain and owner did not defend the vessel on her trial.

7973*. Are you quite sure he had the means to do so?—He cannot plead as an excuse that he had not the means, for the owner of a vessel in a British port, with a cargo worth between 4,000l. and 5,000l., I think, could always manage to raise 30l. or 40l. for the defence of his vessel.

7974*. Was that cargo in his possession, or was it under seizure at the time you speak of?—The vessel and all was seized by me, but still there was the captain and the owner present, and nothing was touched until the condemnation took place.

7975*. How could he offer security and raise money on a seized ship and cargo?—To say how he is to do so is not for me; I am not a mercantile man, but I only observe, that it is most extraordinary that the owner of a ship, with a cargo on board, cannot, in a British port, raise 50l. for the defence of that vessel.

7976*. But how can you affect any wonder on that subject, when you yourself admit that you do not know how he was to do it?—I have already stated that I am no mercantile man, and to say how these things are done, I cannot.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
TAKEN BEFORE
THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Mercurii, 22º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Mr. Aldam.
Sir T. D. Acland.
Captain Fitzroy.
Sir Robert H. Inglis.

Mr. Milnes.
Mr. W. Patten.
Mr. Stuart Wortley.

Captain the Honourable Joseph Denman, R. N. called in; and Examined.

6540. Chairman.] Will you state what your service on the coast of Africa has been?—My first acquaintance with the coast of Africa was in the year 1834, when I took over a slave vessel from Rio Janeiro. In the year 1835 I commanded the Curlew, upon that coast, for a considerable period; and for the last two years I have been in charge of the coast between Cape Verde and Cape Palmas. I was the senior officer upon that district.

6541. What has been the course of the slave trade since your acquaintance with the coast of Africa; has it decreased in extent, or changed its direction?—Since my first acquaintance with the coast, the slave trade has changed in many most important particulars, both with regard to the locality and with regard to the method in which it has been carried on.

6542. Will you state first, as to the locality, in what respect it has changed?—In the year 1835, when the Equipment Treaty came into force, the effect was, in a great measure, to drive the slave trade into the south latitude, where it was carried on with perfect impunity, under the flag of Portugal, by the then existing treaty. They then found that upon the north coast they could carry on the slave trade, by using the flag of Portugal, exactly as before.

6543. By the north coast, you mean north of the equator?—Yes: but from the end of the year 1839 they have been equally shut out from the Portuguese and from the Spanish flag. Up to that period no check whatever had been effected. Since that period I conceive that the slave trade has diminished to one-half what it was before.

6544. Not only north of the equator, but along the whole coast?—Along the whole coast of Africa. The whole amount of the export of slaves from Africa is, in my opinion, now, not one-half what it was previously to the Act of 2 Victoria, empowering us to capture Portuguese ships fitted for the slave trade. The effect of all former changes had been to throw the slave trade under the flag of Portugal, where it received a perfect protection in the southern latitude, and in the northern latitude was on the same footing on which it had been always since the trade was first established.

6545. Does the trade seem now to look to any flag to cover itself under?—They seem to have been deprived of every flag they could possibly look to; they no longer receive protection from any flag.

6546. Not from the American?—Not from the American flag, decidedly, except indirectly.

6547. Do you conceive that the present system, if carried on with the same amount of force, will reduce the slave trade to a still greater extent?—My opinion is, that the system of blockade is that which alone can be successful under any circumstances, but that to render it effective we want a considerable increase of force; with an increase of force I believe that in three years the slave trade may be demolished and exterminated.

6548. Sir T. D. Acland.] In the south as well as in the north?—Yes; there is no longer any difference since the 2nd of Victoria.

6549. Chairman.] Do you contemplate a blockade of the whole coast?—I contemplate the blockade of those parts where the slave trade is carried on.

6550. Do you believe that a material check to the trade, or an extirpation of the trade for two or three years, in any one place, makes it difficult to resume it afterwards, if the interference of the cruizers is suspended?—It turns the trade into another course. When once the trade is interrupted at any place, people are not in the habit of sending traders up the country for slaves, and traders from the interior cease to bring slaves down to them there, and there is great difficulty felt in resuming it; and in almost every instance legitimate commerce comes in, and the wants of the natives are supplied by those means; but I would not in such cases suspend the interference of the cruizers altogether, until the slave trade should be entirely eradicated.

6551. You believe that when the slave trade is checked for a period, legitimate commerce grows up in its place, and the desire to resume it is diminished?—I think the desire to resume it is diminished, in the first place, principally on account of the difficulty of resuming it. I believe that all over Africa the natives prefer the slave trade to any other trade.

6552. But you conceive that the lawful trade co-operates with the efforts of the cruizers?—In speaking of lawful trade I think it is necessary to state, that in my opinion the only legitimate trade of Africa, in the strict sense of the term, is that wherein goods are paid for in produce; all other trade, more or less, is connected with the slave trade.

6553. You mean that the money by which goods are paid for can only have been acquired by the slave trade?—Universally by the slave trade; dollars are brought upon the coast by no other means.

6554. Mr. Forster.] Those dollars and doubloons being diffused over the coast, in what way would you propose to stop the circulation of them?—I do not propose to stop the circulation of them.

6555. Chairman.] When you say “lawful trade,” you mean trade which you would consider as free from any connexion with the slave trade?—Trade which is altogether unconnected with the slave trade.

6556. Where it is a mere exchange of goods for produce, you see no connexion with the slave trade?—No connexion whatever.

6557. But where you see an exchange of goods for money, there you conceive there is at least a suspicion of the slave trade?—I do not think that an individual receiving dollars or money upon the coast should of necessity be suspected or accused of engaging in or conniving at the slave trade in any way; I merely say that such transactions do indirectly partake and mingle with slave-trading transactions.

6558. Because the money is brought upon the coast originally only by the slave trade?—Yes.

6559. But the parties receiving the money may be totally exempt from any connexion themselves with the slave trade?—They may be certainly unconnected with the slave trade altogether.

6560. Wherever the slave trade is carried on, there probably money will be found?—Invariably.

6561. And therefore those who deal in lawful goods, in places where the slave trade is also carried on, will probably receive money in the course of their transactions?—In many places altogether money.

6562. What is the change in the system of blockade at present, as compared with the former system?—Under the former system we had no power over the ship until the slaves were actually on board. The consequence was, that if a man-of-war lay in a port full of slavers, as I have seen Whydah, with ten or a dozen slavers at one time, so long as the man-of-war was in sight they would not ship their slaves; directly the man-of-war was out of sight they shipped their slaves; and every vessel in the harbour would weigh their anchor and set sail. The cruizer would probably chase the wrong ship, and after having chased 100 miles would be laughed at by the master of her, and told that he only did it as a pasatiempo.

6563. Then the change of system is essentially dependent upon the power of seizing under the equipment treaty?—Yes, entirely; the system of blockade is only effective in consequence of that change in the powers of the cruizers.

6564. Sir T. D. Acland.] The equipment treaty allows you to enter rivers, and to board ships even while lying in the river?—The equipment treaties do not give any new rights as regards places.

6565. Under that treaty you may examine slavers lying in the river, and seize them there?—The sole difference is this, we might have searched them formerly as we may search them now, but we could not seize them before unless slaves were on board.

6566. Chairman.] Are you acquainted with the condition of the leeward coast?—I have not been on the leeward coast since the year 1835.

6567. You cannot speak to the condition of that coast as to the slave trade?—I can state that then it was carried on to an enormous extent; that I knew 20 sail of vessels to be there, and that under those former treaties every one of those 20 escaped with full cargoes of slaves.

6568. You have been cruizing the last two years to the north of Cape Palmas?—I have.

6569. What are the points that have been principally the resort of the slave trade during that period?—The Gallinas, to an enormous extent; New Cestos, which lies to the southward of Mesurado, between Mesurado and Cape Palmas; Sea-bar at the Sherboro’ river; the rivers Pongas, Bissao, and Cacheo.

6570. Which should you say have been the places from which the slave trade has been carried on with the greatest vigour?—The Gallinas, immeasurably more than any other place; but at Bissao, since the destruction of the Gallinas, owing to the great difficulty of cruizing there, it has increased, and no doubt will increase more, unless proper measures are taken.

6571. What is the great difficulty of cruizing off Bissao?—There is an inland navigation, a chain reaching from Bissao to the sea upon the north. There are innumerable islands to the south, amongst which there are seven or eight different passages by which the slavers could escape; and there is the Portuguese settlement of Bissao, under which a slaver may lie with perfect impunity under the Portuguese flag. From all those circumstances, there is the greatest difficulty in the cruizers operating effectually there.

6572. You have not the right of capturing under the walls of either a Spanish or a Portuguese fort?—No, we cannot supersede their municipal laws; all we can do is to remonstrate with the authorities.

6573. But you may seize as soon as the vessel is out of their waters?—Yes; but they take care never to go out when you are in the neighbourhood; they can get the most perfect information by canoes.

6574. Would steamers be especially adapted for cruizing on that coast?—I consider two steamers indispensable for eradicating the slave trade between the isle of Bulama and Bissao, assisted by two cruizers at least; but a yet more important object is the occupation of the Bulama island, from which the slavers have received the greatest possible assistance, and the occupation of which would directly intercept the principal supply of slaves. It is an island not only of immense importance as regards commerce, but also of extraordinary fertility.

6575. Is it salubrious?—I cannot say that any part of the coast of Africa is salubrious, but I have no reason to believe that it is less so than other parts; this inland is one of the last importance; I do not think it is possible to appreciate it without seeing Captain Belcher’s chart.

6576. What is the importance of that island to commerce?—It is at the mouth of all the rivers; the river Nunez, which is a river of vast importance, in my opinion, and the Rio Grande, and the Rio Pongos. It intercepts the trade with Bissao completely.

6577. Do those great rivers open out a fertile country?—I think not, generally; I think the banks are generally very swampy near the sea; but there is a very large inland trade brought down the river, both in slaves and produce: the slaves are carried almost entirely to Bissao.

6578. Sir R. H. Inglis.] You have referred to the occupation of the island of Bulama, as furnishing by its geographical position a most important station for the prevention of the slave trade, was not it selected by Captain Beaver for that purpose, and was not its almost proverbial unhealthiness the cause of its abandonment?—I believe there was a great deal of prejudice upon the subject; I believe, moreover, that the settlement was most injudiciously selected for health, and I think, besides, that if you compare it with certain periods at Sierra Leone, and every other part of the coast, there will be found periods quite as unhealthy at other places as at Bulama. I think Captain Beaver’s account of the island fully explains the causes of the sickness. It was very much from the misconduct of the people. I know that when orders came out to declare the sovereignty of Great Britain over that island, 1,600 persons at Sierra Leone volunteered to me to go there to settle it at a time when the emigrant ships could not get a man, so high was the impression of the people as to its advantages.

6579. Mr. W. Patten.] Are none of the other islands so well situated?—None to be compared to this, and this is the only one over which we have any claim.

6580. In point of health how are the other islands as compared with Bulama?—I have no means of judging, being inhabited by barbarous piratical people, with whom we have no sort of intercourse at present; the policy of the Portuguese is to keep all the persons surrounding their settlement in the most barbarous state.

6581. Mr. Aldam.] What is the nature of the land on the opposite coast?—All swampy, I believe.

6582. Then is not the island necessarily unhealthy?—No, I think not; I think that if the sea coast on the western side of the island was occupied, it would not be so; it is certainly not more swampy than the Gambia itself, and many other settlements.

6583. Mr. Forster.] You attribute the failure of Captain Beaver to the inadequacy of the means that he employed rather than to the fault of the island?—I think it was a great deal owing to that; I think there is no proof that the island is unhealthy to the extent supposed, and I believe the island might be immediately peopled by blacks.

6584. Have you in the course of your cruizing on the coast of Africa seen any part that appeared to you to be so eligible for a settlement as the island of Bulama?—I have already stated in as strong terms as I am able, the importance of the island, in my opinion, in every respect; there may be places that I should suppose to be more healthy; for instance, Sierra Leone itself, is apparently the most healthy part of the whole coast, but there seems to be great doubt whether it is so.

6585. Mr. Aldam.] If the opposite coast is swampy, would not fever almost always prevail there when the wind sets from the land?—I am not at all able to say what causes fever, for we find it under all circumstances; you find sometimes swampy places less unhealthy than high places.

6586. Mr. Forster.] Did you land on the island of Bulama?—Yes.

6587. Have you seen any considerable portion of the island?—No, I have not, excepting the coast.

6588. Is it your opinion that there is open ground there?—I found the ground under cultivation, and therefore only told the people that it was a British island; I thought it would have been injudicious to remove them and let jungles spring up before the Government took possession of it.

6589. You saw no extraordinary obstacle to the cultivation and improvement of the island?—Decidedly not; I think it is the most favourable spot for cultivation I have seen upon the coast of Africa.

6590. Have you been up to the river Nunez or the river Pongas?—I have been up the Nunez and the Pongas.

6591. To what distance?—I went up the Nunez as high as Kacundy, about 40 or 50 miles in a direct line; it is where the British factories are; it is the place to which all the trade of the Foota-Jallon nation is brought.

6592. Did you land upon the banks of the river?—Yes; I was five days in the river altogether.

6593. Did you see any thing of the state of the cultivation?—I had no means of judging; I do not believe the exports of the produce raised in the neighbourhood of the river itself at all important; the important commerce is that which is brought down from Foota-Jallon; and the opportunities I had of judging gave me the highest impression of the state of that country. I think they are far superior to any other African people I have ever had the means of acquiring a knowledge of; they are a Foolah nation, in the Foota-Jallon country; Teembo is the capital.

6594 Mr. Forster.] You found those British factories depending entirely upon the protection of the natives, without any British establishment to assist them?—I went up for the purpose of affording them protection; there is no Government establishment of any sort, nor do I think it desirable there should be.

6595. Sir T. D. Acland.] What is the ground of that opinion?—That the river is exceedingly unhealthy; and my opinion is that the Government influence would be quite as well supported by occasional visits by steam ships, and Bulama would afford support to the trade, if colonized.

6596. Chairman.] What kind of settlement do you contemplate upon the island of Bulama?—A colony of black people, with any traders there that choose to go there, supported by a small fort, with a detachment of the African corps.

6597. Sir T. D. Acland.] Under the English Government?—Under the English Government.

6597*. And visited by steamers?—And visited by steamers and cruizers.

6598. Mr. W. Patten.] What time does it require to go from Sierra Leone to Bulama?—It depends a great deal upon the time of year; I should say, generally, the passage might be made in less than three days.

6599. Do you recollect the distance?—I am not quite sure; 200 miles, I should think.

6600. Sir T. D. Acland.] Would you have this colony dependent upon the Government of Sierra Leone?—Yes, I think decidedly.

6601. Mr. Forster.] Tn preference to its being attached to the Gambia?—It depends upon the facility of communication between the two; whichever the communication is most easy with, I should say it should be connected with. I am not prepared to say at this moment with which the communication is most easy.

6602. Sir T. D. Acland.] But at all events you think it should be dependent upon one or the other, not separate?—I think so.

6603. Mr. Forster.] You were understood to say that the country up the River Nunez, and the River Pongas, is swampy in the interior?—The mouths of the rivers are swampy, but up the Nunez there is good rising ground; the Pongas is a succession of creeks joining each other.

6604. Did you become acquainted with the fact up the Nunez of the growth of coffee on the mountains?—I became aware of the fact of coffee growing in whole forests, which have been hitherto neglected in consequence of the duties amounting to a prohibition.

6605. Is it your opinion that the slave trade is carried on in the Nunez to any material extent?—The Portuguese settlement of Bissao has small boats and canoes collecting slaves, together with produce, as far down as the north bank of the Sierra Leone river; there are many of those boats and canoes employed in the Nunez, but to the best of my belief no vessel has carried slaves from thence for several years, except in one instance, where, under the plea of recruits, the French took away a cargo.

6606. Chairman.] The canoes go about picking up a few at a time, and collecting them into a store, as it were, at Bissao and Cacheo?—At Bissao and Cacheo; I have no doubt that there are also barracoons upon the Bissagos islands, but I had no opportunity to examine as to the fact.

6607. Mr. Forster.] You do not consider the British factories in Rio as at all responsible for those proceedings?—Decidedly not; I have no reason to suppose that they are.

6608. How do you account for so few cruizers having generally visited that part of the coast hitherto?—Because the station which I had charge of has generally been very short of cruizers; the only means of communication was by boats, and owing to the long exposure, and the fatigue it occasioned, it invariably cost the lives of about a fourth of the people employed, whereas a steamer might do in one day what boats take four or five days to do.

6609. Chairman.] How would you provide fuel for the steamers in those parts?—I am not aware how far wood might be substituted for coal; I think in that part wood certainly might be used, because they would be able to take in supplies so frequently.

6610. They would have no long distances to go?—Not in that district.

6611. So that they need never be far removed from the depôts?—Precisely; there might be depôts at Bulama, and at the Gambia, and at Sierra Leone; the great difficulty is the engineers; you are obliged to have white engineers at present, but there is no sort of reason why black people of Sierra Leone should not be brought up for the purpose. There are numbers sufficiently educated for the purpose, and with proper instruction, in the course of a few years, they would supersede the necessity for white engineers.

6612. Mr. Forster.]—Have you not found the natives rather remarkable for the quickness and facility with which they learn mechanical operations of that kind?—I have found them quite equal to white people in that respect, possessing great intelligence, and quickness, and shrewdness, making allowance for their want of education and barbarous habits in general.

6613. Mr. Wortley.] Did you ever consider how far it would be possible to establish an effective blockade upon the coast which has been the scene of the slave trade by means of a combination of steamers and sailing cruizers?—I believe that by such means, by taking certain districts of the coast pointed out by particular circumstances, and effectively and continuously blockading those parts, and then moving from point to point, leaving a smaller force to prevent the slave trade from reviving, that system would be perfectly effective in the course of three years, supposing the forces to be increased.

6614. Sir T. D. Acland.] From what point to what point?—I speak merely of the West Coast, I have no knowledge of the East; but I have no hesitation in saying that it might be effected from Cape Verde down to the northern part of our Cape of Good Hope dominions.

6615. Mr. Wortley.] In order to accomplish that object are you able to state what you imagine would be the necessary force of steamers and cruizers?—I should say that steamers are only necessary in particular parts; I should say that six steamers would be quite enough.

6616. Chairman.] And how many sailing-vessels?—There are now upon the coast sixteen sailing-vessels; I would increase them by at least one-half; I would withdraw all the cruizers now employed in checking the slave trade on the other side of the Atlantic; I consider them, as regards the suppression of the slave trade, as entirely useless.

6617. Do you know what number are employed on the other side of the Atlantic?—On the other side of the Atlantic they have various other duties to perform; I can scarcely say that any of them are exclusively employed in this service.

6618. Mr. Wortley.] But the whole number there is rendered large by having this service to perform?—Yes.

6619. Can you say what number it would be possible to dispense with, in case the slave trade service were discontinued on the other side of the Atlantic?—I cannot answer this question, as they have various other duties to perform, and are not exclusively employed against slave trade.

6620. When you said that you would increase the number of cruizers by one-half, did you mean that you would increase it by one-half, including the number of steamers that you propose to have?—No, excluding those; I would make the present 16 vessels 24, and have six steamers in addition.

6621. And you think that if there were a force of that kind employed upon the West Coast of Africa, it would have the effect of entirely suppressing the slave trade?—If a proper system of blockade were adopted, I have no doubt of it.

6622. Chairman.] Do you consider that it is useless, towards putting down the slave trade, to capture slave vessels off the coast of Brazil or the West Indies?—My opinion is, that any captures there are such utter chance that they do no good whatever, as on that side not one vessel out of ten can ever be captured, and wherever it is reduced to a chance at all, the profits are sufficient to keep up the slave trade. My opinion is, that the only way in which the slave trade can be stopped is in the interior of Africa. Every slave vessel that sails with her cargo of slaves has already done all she can to keep the slave trade going in Africa. The native dealer has his profit upon them; he does not care where she goes to, or what becomes of the slaves afterwards.

6623. Mr. Forster.] Is not a slave vessel captured on the western side of the Atlantic, equally a loss to the slave dealer as a slave vessel captured on the eastern side of the Atlantic?—My opinion is, that the amount of loss to the slave dealer is of little consequence, seeing that it is the result of chances which, in that quarter, must be always immensely in favour of the slave dealer, and that, compared with the chance of escape, the chance of capture is nothing; the profits are so large that the risk will be readily incurred.

6624. Chairman.] You think that the chance of escape is much greater with cruizers on the western side of the Atlantic than on the eastern?—My opinion is, that if the slaves are once on board, the mischief is already done.

6625. Mr. Aldam.] Do you think that the only effect of capturing a slave ship off the coast of America, is to increase the price of slaves, and that any increase which that can cause, the planters can still afford to pay?—The capture of a slave ship after her slaves are on board inflicts a heavy loss on the owners; but while embarkation can be effected to any extent, slave trade can never be stopped. The mere fact of keeping cruizers on the American side of the Atlantic is in itself an absolute proof of the want of success of our efforts, and the strongest argument in favour of the system I recommend. While slaves can be introduced, planters can afford to pay almost any price.

6626. Mr. Wortley.] Do you think it would be possible to suppress the slave trade by any system pursued in the interior of Africa, without an effectual suppression of the trade upon the coast?—The only way in which I contemplate the suppression of the slave trade in the interior of Africa, is by the suppression of the embarkation of slaves.

6627. As long as the temptation upon the coast exists, do you think it impossible to put an end to the slave trade in the interior?—Precisely; as long as embarkation takes place, that temptation continues, and the slave trade of the interior remains untouched.

6628. Chairman.] Has not the cruizing off the coast of Africa the additional advantage of protecting British trade incidentally, and showing to the natives before their eyes that the English flag is actively exerted to put down that traffic, which advantages would not be secured by cruizing on the western side of the Atlantic?—Certainly, it is one of our first duties to protect British trade, and in that respect I have no doubt it is useful, as well as in the suppression of the slave trade.

6629. Is it not of considerable advantage in a traffic like that upon the coast of Africa, that the British power should be pretty frequently displayed?—It is highly necessary.

6630. Chairman.] Supposing even the chance of capture to be equal in the two cases, has not cruizing off the coast of Africa the further advantage of checking or entirely preventing the horrors of the middle passage?—If you capture a full vessel upon the coast of Africa, she has nearly the same voyage to Sierra Leone from many parts: it depends upon circumstances.

6631. Sir R. H. Inglis.] You have stated that the slave trade is a favourite trade throughout Africa; would, therefore, the prevention of the slave trade, whether on the east or on the west of the Atlantic, remove the temptation in the one case more than in the other?—My opinion is, that the temptation is removed alone by throwing difficulties in the way of embarkation; because, as long as the native can sell his slaves, he does not care where they go to; he goes and buys more slaves.

6632. Chairman.] Would you think it advantageous if the cruizers were allowed to fit up one of their prizes as a cruizing tender?—It would be undoubtedly of great advantage, but it would be contrary to the treaties.

6633. To all the treaties?—I think to all the treaties; and it would be open to great abuses.

6634. What abuses?—I think you would have young midshipmen and people cruizing away in those vessels, and getting into scrapes, by improperly searching foreign vessels.

6635. You regard the duty as one of rather a delicate nature, which is not to be entrusted to subordinate officers?—The most difficult and the most delicate that a British officer can be entrusted with; the immense mischief produced by an indiscreet search, by giving offence to foreign nations, has been very much experienced.

6636. Do not the treaties require that officers of a certain rank shall alone be empowered to carry out the search?—That is the case in most of the treaties.

6637. Mr. Wortley.] Has not there been an improvement of late years in the class of vessels employed in cruizing?—Very great; I believe that for some years they have been replacing the old brigs with a superior class of vessels; fast sailing vessels, which are quite equal to the slavers in sailing qualities.

6638. Are you aware whether that change has been followed by a perceptible increase of efficiency in the service?—That change was about contemporaneous with the change by the Act of the 2d of Victoria; you cannot distinguish between the effects of the two.

6639. According to your observation, should you say that the present class of vessels is an efficient class for the service for which they are employed?—Decidedly; there are still a few of the old class, but they have been always replaced at the expiration of their term of service by efficient vessels.

6640. How are they in point of sailing as compared with the generality of slavers?—They are generally superior; I commanded one for two years, and I never chased a vessel that I did not overhaul; some got away from darkness coming on, but I had the advantage in point of sailing in every instance.

6641. What vessel was that?—The Wanderer, a 16-gun brig.

6642. Chairman.] What are the respective functions that you would assign to the sailing-vessel and to the steamer, the two acting in combination?—The steamer, I think, should be probing the rivers and ranging about the coast; the sailing-vessel should be as much as possible a fixture at the place where the slaves are put on board, which should never be left unguarded for an hour. The steamer should be employed in going from place to place to see whether from new places they are making arrangements to embark slaves, and also for carrying provisions and water, and in chasing; but steamers could not entirely blockade, because they are so much more frequently obliged to leave their stations for supplies.

6643. Mr. Wortley.] What was the system you generally pursued in the course of your service; did you pass your time principally in stationary blockade, or were you upon a moving cruize?—When I took charge of the station, the orders I issued to the other cruizers (as well as what I practised myself) were, to maintain the principle of blockade; and if they chased a vessel off a certain port where slaves were shipped, never to lose sight of that port; but if they could not catch the vessel without losing sight of it, to go back again, for she was sure to come back again, and there was no harm done. If, on the other hand, the chase is continued to any distance, other vessels might get in and ship slaves; and even the very one pursued might dodge the cruizer at night, and run in and effect her escape with a cargo.

6644. Mr. Aldam.] Then where would you place the six steamers you propose to have?—I would have two between Cape Mesaduro and the river Gambia, principally stationed at the Bissagos; but those operations I speak of would very soon alter the character of the trade, and it would be removed from point to point. I think there should be two more steamers, perhaps, between Cape Formosa and Cape Palmas, and two more to the southward of those points.

6645. Mr. Forster.] Do you think they could be navigated with wood fuel entirely?—I am not prepared to answer that question, but I think not; I think coal would be required upon most parts of the coast.

6646. Mr. Aldam.] What would be the size of the steamers necessary, the tonnage, and the power of the engine?—The steamers on the coast of Africa ought to be small steamers, not drawing more than five or six feet water.

6647. Chairman.] Might not the slave vessels be useful as tenders sometimes after condemnation?—Under the treaties we are not empowered to buy them. In the Act of 2d Victoria, there is a clause by which the Government can take any captured vessel that they please for the purpose of a tender,—one was established by me under that clause by orders from the Admiralty,—but not to cruize; simply to convey the prize crews to their proper ships.

6648. Mr. Forster.] Do not you consider the British settlements on the coast of Africa an important assistance in the suppression of the slave trade?—I consider that the settlements on shore have done some service in that way, but not half so much as they might have done.

6649. Chairman.] Will you state the grounds of that opinion?—With regard to Sierra Leone, I have no hesitation in saying, that the slave trade has derived great advantage from it, and that the British influence does not extend there much beyond the limits of the colony as regards this object. The entrance of the Sherboro’ river has on one side of it Sierra Leone, and there is a slave trade carried on there, and that has been owing to the view which the Government took of General Turner’s proceeding in 1826, the consequence of which has been to prevent future governors from attempting similar plans.

6650. What were those plans?—To obtain the sovereignty of the coast down as far as the Boom Kittam river, which lies on the south side of the Sherboro’, and from thence, I believe, to Cape Mount.

6651. Mr. Forster.] Had he already entered into treaties for that purpose?—He had already got possession as far as the Boom Kittam, and the Government ordered that that should be relinquished again.

6652. Chairman.] In what way has Sierra Leone lent assistance to the slave trade?—The slave vessels have been repeatedly purchased there by people, notoriously agents of Pedro Blanco, and others at Gallinas, and they have gone back into his hands.

6653. Mr. Forster.] Do you think the settlement of Sierra Leone was so much responsible for that as the system under which the vessels were sold?—I think the individuals who purchased slave vessels for slave dealers were very much to blame, and it is only to be regretted that no punishment could be inflicted upon them.

6654. Sir R. H. Inglis.] By the law at present the slave vessels must be broken up?—Not in all cases. Under the British law, the Act of the 5th George the 4th, vessels are not broken up, so that if a vessel is condemned in British waters by the British law, she is sold, and probably goes into a slave dealer’s hands the next day, which is the case also with vessels condemned under the Brazilian treaty.

6655. Mr. Forster.] Are you aware that those vessels are sold by auction to the highest bidder?—I am perfectly aware of that; that is according to the treaties under which they are condemned: it is no fault of the authorities of Sierra Leone nor of the Mixed Commission Court; the authorities are compelled to allow her to leave the port afterwards.

6656. If an agent of Pedro Blanco, or even Pedro Blanco himself, went into the auction room and bid the highest price he would get the vessel?—I suppose so.

6657. Chairman.] It is in that respect that you consider that Sierra Leone has afforded facilities to the slave trade?—It is in that respect; but, at the same time, I cannot conceive Pedro Blanco having the audacity to go into the sale room for such a purpose, or the authorities letting the vessel under such circumstances sail out of port.

6658. How could the authorities stop the vessel going out under the charge of Pedro Blanco himself, as well as under the charge of his agent?—I think the facts would be almost sufficient to prove that she was engaged in the slave trade; but there would be a difficulty, unless she had equipments about her.

6659. Mr. Forster.] You would not propose to punish the auctioneer who sold the vessel to the agent of Pedro Blanco?—No, he could not be responsible; he would be acting as a Government agent.

6660. Mr. Aldam.] If a vessel was purchased on behalf of a slave dealer at Sierra Leone, where would she clear for?—Probably for the Cape Verd Islands. I know two cases where the vessels cleared for the Cape Verd Islands; one of them I captured. I will state an instance of the way in which vessels not broken up pass into the slave trade again. The Republicano, a prize of the Fantome, was condemned at Sierra Leone; she was purchased by an individual known to be engaged in the slave trade; I went on board her and saw what her object was, that she was going to carry slaves, and I detained her.

6661*. The purchaser was a man known to be engaged in the slave trade?—Yes, and I detained her. When I went away myself I left orders with my agent, on no account to let her go without a decree of the court; but he thought that we could not prove sufficient to justify her detention, and he let her go. The purchaser then proceeded to the Cape de Verd Islands, and fitted her out for the slave trade, and she was taken off the Gallinas by Captain Hill, of the Saracen, perfectly equipped as a slave ship.

6662*. Who was the slave dealer?—He was an American; I forget his name.

6663*. Do you mean to say that he was a resident at Sierra Leone, carrying on the slave trade?—No; but I merely mention that as an instance of the way in which captured vessels, when not broken up, are afterwards employed again in the slave trade. I do not say that he was amenable to British law.

6664*. Chairman.] Was it the actual slave dealer who made the purchase in Sierra Leone?—He was a man known very well to be closely connected with a slave vessel lately condemned.

6665*. What was the nature of his real or supposed connexion with the slave trade?—I cannot exactly call to mind the proof of the fact; but that it was so a reference to the printed correspondence will show.

6666*. Mr. Aldam.] Whose name appeared as owner; was the owner of the ship that you captured a Spaniard or a Portuguese?—It was a Spanish master; she appeared as the property of the American who had made the purchase.

6667*. Chairman.] Have there been instances in which a slave dealer in his own person has come to Sierra Leone and made purchases of this kind?—In the case I have just mentioned he had been already brought to Sierra Leone in some vessel, but he was not known as Pedro Blanco was; but I believe there would be no means of preventing them from taking the vessel away, unless equipment was on board.

6668*. Has the colony of Sierra Leone in any other way contributed to the maintenance of the slave trade, besides the facilities which it has afforded of purchasing ships which have been condemned?—I have no doubt that some degree of communication has been kept up between the slave dealers in the neighbourhood of the Gallinas and the Sherboro’, and parties in Sierra Leone.

6669*. Have you reason to know that any liberated Africans have engaged in slave dealing?—I have no actual knowledge of any such circumstance; I have no doubt that many, I have proof that some, liberated Africans have been sold again into slavery.

6670*. To any extent?—I am not able to say to what extent; I should think to a considerable extent, from cases which have fallen within my knowledge.

6671*. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Do you believe that they have been kidnapped?—I am unable to say whether they were kidnapped or not; I should think it most likely.

6672*. Chairman.] What are the cases with which you are acquainted?—There were three cases at the Gallinas. There was one case in the Pongas, where I went up and liberated a girl who had been carried off.

6673*. Had those persons been carried off from within the district of Sierra Leone, or in the course of their traffic along the coast?—The one in the Pongas had been carried off from the colony of Sierra Leone, and one of them had been taken away as a servant, and left as a pawn; in fact a slave. The other two had been taken when out of the colony.

6674*. Was the case which you alluded to as having occurred within the colony itself, a case of kidnapping or abduction conducted by inhabitants of Sierra Leone?—I have Sir John Jeremie’s letter here upon the subject. By the Timmanees, I see, is the statement in the letter.

6675*. Then this is a case in which some strangers entered the country and carried off some of the inhabitants of Sierra Leone?—So it appears from the letter.

6661. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Then you wish the Committee to understand nothing more than that Sierra Leone has been the scene of incursions made with a view to carry persons as slaves from that part of Africa, as might have been the case from the Bonny?—I stated my belief that a considerable number had been kidnapped also by the people of Sierra Leone, and sold to natives who have carried them away, often in canoes.

6662. But you do not attribute that to any overt acts, or any neglect of the Government?—By no means; I think it is almost unavoidable under the circumstances.

6663. Chairman.] You have no reason to know that a system of kidnapping prevails in the colony, though individual instances may have occurred?—I have no reason to know it; but I have reason to believe that it did exist to a considerable extent, more particularly formerly, when a great number were landed from slave ships; but now that is reduced to a small number.

6664. In those instances of kidnapping you imagine that they were the acts rather of strangers to the colony than a system pursued by the inhabitants of the colony?—In many cases I think they were the acts of inhabitants of the colony, who had kidnapped people, or seduced them from the colony, and then sold them to the slave dealers.

6665. Upon what ground do you imagine that kidnapping does exist to a considerable extent in the colony?—I have heard the thing repeatedly stated with great confidence, and I think those instances go to prove it; when I went into the Gallinas I found 90 slaves, and of those 90 two were British subjects.

6666. Mr. Forster.] Could such a system have been carried on without the consequences of it becoming obvious to every person resident at Sierra Leone, and acquainted with the number of captured negroes in the neighbourhood?—I believe that it might at times, when there was a great influx of those black people; my opinion is, from what I have heard, but I am not able to enter into the facts very closely, that the apprenticeship system at Sierra Leone is extremely defective, and that the whole system of supervision over the liberated Africans, as well as of the apprentices, is also exceedingly bad, and open to great abuses.

6667. Chairman.] Would it not be the duty of the police magistrates of the district to see that there was no diminution of numbers by kidnapping?—I am not aware that there are any district police magistrates, except the superintendents of the villages.

6668. Do not those superintendents exercise the functions of magistrates?—I do not know; but they are very often taken off by sickness, and villages are frequently left without proper people to take charge of them; and I believe, in my own mind, that the system of kidnapping has gone on to some considerable extent.

6669. Mr. Forster.] But your opinion upon that subject is founded merely upon report?—Yes; and upon information I have received in conversation.

6670. Mr. Aldam.] Do you think that there is any remedy for that evil?—I think the only remedy would be to exercise more supervision over the liberated Africans, by having a larger Government establishment to some extent, and a better class of people employed.

6671. Chairman.] Have any other settlements given facilities to the slave trade besides Sierra Leone?—Not directly, to my knowledge; the trade of the Gambia is principally with Bissao, and at Bissao there is a great slave trade, and legitimate trade, or rather produce trade going on hand-in-hand together; the merchants of Bissao purchase quantities of slaves and quantities of produce; and again, goods supplied by the merchants at the Gambia are paid for in produce and in money; those goods, undoubtedly, are more or less used by the slave dealers in the slave trade.

6672. Sir R. H. Inglis.] The case to which you referred as within your own knowledge, of a person detained in the Gallinas as a slave, taken from Sierra Leone, was the case forming a subject of the Parliamentary Papers of the year 1841?—No; another case; that was a case where she had gone voluntarily into the country, and been detained.

6673. Mr. Aldam.] How many white people would be necessary to manage the establishment on the island of Bulama?—I do not see the absolute necessity of one white person, unless it be the officer commanding the detachment; but at the utmost, three or four, independently of those who chose voluntarily to settle in order to trade.

6674. Mr. Forster.] You appear to entertain a doubt whether the British settlements already on the coast have rendered as much service as they might have done for the suppression of the slave trade?—I spoke more particularly of Sierra Leone; at the same time, the connexion of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about.

6675. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you also include the settlements on the Gold Coast?—I have no knowledge of the Gold Coast settlements.

6676. Then your remark does not apply to them?—No.

6677. Mr. Forster.] When you speak in terms of disapproval of the transactions which you say have taken place between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas, do you wish the Committee to understand that you would recommend that the intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas should be put a stop to?—There is now no intercourse whatever between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas, and there has not been any for the last few years; I speak of former years.

6678. Would you think it desirable that there should be a commercial intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas?—Undoubtedly I think a commercial intercourse is the only means of eradicating the slave trade; it is the best auxiliary of the cruizers.

6679. And your opinion would be the same with respect to the intercourse between the Gambia and Bissao, that it is desirable that commercial intercourse should be continued and extended if possible between those two places?—Yes, and that it should be separated as much as possible from the slave trade.

6680. Chairman.] How do you distinguish the lawful from the unlawful trade carried on in a place where both are going on together?—It is almost impossible to distinguish them; for instance, at Bissao the principal slave dealer is also the principal produce dealer, Caetano or Kyetan Nossolino, with whom all the merchants at the Gambia have dealings; in my opinion, that is not a very beneficial trade, because it is not a direct trade with the natives at all; it is a trade between the slave dealer and the British merchants; he buys produce, with which he procures slaves; his principal trade is the slave trade, and he derives great advantages from his commerce with the Gambia in his slave trade.

6681. Would he not have the same facilities of getting the goods necessary for the slave trade from other sources?—He would not have the same facility; it would be much more difficult for him to get it from any other quarter, I apprehend.

6682. Mr. Forster.] Do you mean that it would be difficult, supposing the supply from the British settlements at the Gambia were cut off?—I think it would be more difficult.

6683. Chairman.] Could you stop an American or a Hamburgh vessel going in with the same produce?—Certainly not, nor would I stop an English vessel, but I should wish to consider the means by which we might separate the legitimate trade from the slave trade; my opinion is, that the separation would be best effected by the occupation of Bulama, which would put our merchants in a better position to trade themselves direct with the natives.

6684. You consider then that the trade with Bissao is now thrown too much into the hands of one man, who becomes a monopolist of the trade, and who derives advantages from it in carrying on the slave trade, which would not be derived if we had an entrepôt of our own, to which the natives could resort for goods?—I do; instead of the trade passing all through his hands, I would endeavour, by the occupation of such places as Bulama, to create a rival trade between the English merchants and the natives, instead of goods going, as they now do, through the hands of Caetano and other slave dealers.

6685. You would not, by a legislative enactment, endeavour to prevent a communication by British merchants with slave dealers, but you would rather open other means of trade which were less likely to be objectionable in their results, and thus rival the slave dealers?—Where produce trade existed to any extent at all, I would trust to such measures for the separation of the two; but there are some places where there is no produce trade whatever, where, from one year’s end to another, not a single piece of ivory, or a single gallon of palm oil is exported. The Gallinas is a case in point; it is very true that British vessels can supply goods to the Gallinas, but there is, I think, a scandal in our ships supplying goods there, which does infinite harm to our claim on other nations to abolish and make an end of the slave trade.

6686. Mr. Forster.] How would you introduce British trade in produce at the Gallinas unless you encouraged British traders to go there?—The fact is, that wherever the slave trade exists people never turn to legitimate traffic at all, unless the slave trade is insufficient to supply their wants, or until the slave trade is stopped, or at least checked, by forcible means. When the slave trade no longer supplies what they want they are compelled to labour and raise produce, and they are then ready enough to engage in lawful trade; but the goods now brought are as much slave trade almost as the slaves that are exported.

6687. Are you not aware that in some places on the coast the slave trade has been in a great measure, if not entirely, suppressed by the force of commerce alone?—I do not know of any instance; in every case the first step has been the suppression or the check of the slave trade, and then, and not till then, do the natives labour to raise produce.

6688. Have you been to Popo lately?—I have been to Popo; the cruizers at Popo first checked the slave trade, and then the slave dealers preferred Whydah, which is in the neighbourhood, and they have since taken to legitimate trade at Popo.

6689. Are you aware that there was a considerable slave trade formerly from the Rio Nunez?—I am not particularly acquainted with the slave trade that has been carried on from thence; I know that in the year 1835 there was no great amount of slave trade from thence.

6690. You are not then aware that since the establishment of British factories there, the slave trade has entirely disappeared excepting in the way you have referred to, by the visits of Portuguese canoes picking up slaves in the neighbourhood?—I consider that simply produced by the fact of Bissao being a more convenient place; slavers lie there in perfect security under the walls of the Portuguese fort; they prefer bringing their slaves from the Nunez, which they do in great numbers, in canoes to Bissao, to shipping them direct from the Nunez, from whence the passage and the escape is much more difficult than from Bissao.

6691. Is it your opinion then that the slavers would have the same facility in procuring slaves at the place or near the place where a British factory was established, as in any other part of the coast where no such establishment existed?—I consider that the British factory would never, unassisted, put down the slave trade in any way; I can answer for the statement that I received from Mr. Benjamin Campbell, a merchant in the Nunez, and formerly in the Pongas, a man of great intelligence and great experience: his statement to me was, that directly a slave vessel came in, his factory was abandoned; that nobody would come near him when she was there; that the natives invariably preferred slave commerce to legitimate commerce.

6692. Are you not aware that the whole of the Gold Coast is at present dependent upon our settlements for the suppression of the slave trade, and that if those settlements were removed, the slave trade would be immediately resumed there?—I have no doubt whatever that the settlements on the Gold Coast have put down the slave trade, but that has been not by the unassisted force of commerce; it is because they have an establishment and force, and are able to govern the natives; it is not like a single merchant upon the banks of a river forming a factory. I have a letter from Mr. Campbell here, in which he states that when the natives hear of a slave vessel in the Pongas or Bissao, they accuse the British merchants of driving away their trade. That I believe to be an error on their part, especially as Mr. Campbell, in the same letter, states that Caetano has two white agents in the river purchasing slaves for him. I believe the reason that they go to the Bissao is because they are more secure; but the slave trade with the Nunez is by no means given up; dozens of canoes go every month with slaves.

6693. None are shipped there?—They are shipped in the canoes, and they are taken to Bissao, because Bissao is a more convenient place for sending them off.

6694. Would they not be shipped from Rio Nunez but for the presence of the British factories?—I think they may throw some doubt over the minds of people as to the probability of giving information, and so on; but I believe the reason that the slave dealers prefer Bissao is what I have stated; viz. the difficulty of escaping from the Nunez.

6695. If British factories, without a British fleet or any British force, can have a beneficial tendency in suppressing the trade, does it not follow that settlements with a British force, and British authority to support them, would be still more efficient in suppressing that trade?—That is undeniable; and I allow that the influence would be beneficial in conjunction with the naval force, but I deny the power of unassisted British factories in putting down the slave trade; I do not believe that there is a single instance of it on the whole coast.

6696. Then if British factories and British commerce cannot have that influence, you apprehend that a large British force will continue to be necessary upon that coast?—That is not what I have stated; what I have stated is, that they have never, unassisted, put down the slave trade; wherever it is put down commerce instantly springs up: and there is the strongest reason to suppose, that when the slave trade is put down generally, commerce will be established throughout Africa; and when legitimate trade exists as a habit of the people, in the course of time I look to that legitimate trade putting an end to the slave trade for ever.

6697. Mr. Wortley.] Your observation and experience have led you to the decided conclusion that all attempts to suppress the slave trade by inducing the natives to betake themselves to legitimate traffic would be abortive, unless the direct suppression of the slave trade was effectual?—Unless the slave trade was checked by other means; when it is checked, commerce begins, and extends by degrees.

6698. Chairman.] How would you carry out the principle of separation; would you proceed to prohibit certain places which you considered to have no other traffic than the slave trade till the slave trade should have been to a certain amount checked, if not extirpated from that place?—My opinion is, that there is a change required in the law. At present, English merchant ships may supply slave factories, known to every soul at Sierra Leone to be slave factories, and yet if they cannot prove that the person who sold those goods for the purpose of buying slaves, did actually and positively know in his own mind the fact of those goods being certainly to be used in the slave trade, there can be no conviction.

6699. In a case such as that of Canôt, who is a great produce dealer, as well as a dealer in slaves, would you prohibit intercourse with him?—I would not prohibit intercourse with any body: but in every case where it was clearly proved that goods were sold to a person who it was well known could only use those goods in the slave trade, and the slave trade alone, that man’s character being perfectly notorious, I think that British vessels supplying him with goods, ignorant of his character, and from the want of the exercise of reasonable care and precaution, so aiding and abetting the slave trade, should be subject to the penalties of the Act.

6700. Speaking of this as a legal question to be provided for by Act of Parliament, how would you decide the proportion of produce trade which should entitle a foreign slave dealer, under such an Act of Parliament, to carry on intercourse with British traders; unless you could define that, would it not be easy for every slave dealer wishing to have that intercourse, to carry on a trade in produce, however small, sufficient to bring him within the permission given to deal with persons carrying on trade lawfully as well as unlawfully?—I do not think that it would be desirable to apply the provision very strictly; I think it would be very injudicious to be searching and inquiring in every case, whether the proceedings were of this character or not; but where there is a glaring and an unquestionable case, such as any English merchant sending goods to a slave ship, or to a factory where there is no other trade, I think he should be punished, and I think that it is highly important to the position which England holds upon this question with regard to foreign nations; my proposition is, that if from want of reasonable care he did not know that which was a notorious fact to every body else, he should be subject to the penalties.

6701. Sir T. D. Acland.] The trade of which you are speaking is that which is carried on with factories, notoriously used for the purpose of the slave trade; would you apply the law to such places?—I can mention a case which I think is a very strong one, the case of the Gallinas, where, to my certain knowledge, cargoes to a great extent were brought under the American flag, and other flags, solely for the purpose of purchasing slaves, the freight for all those cargoes being paid for in the Havannah, and without one single atom of produce being exported in return. Now in my opinion it was open under the Act for a British merchant ship to have carried all those goods to the Gallinas instead of an American with perfect impunity, and such a course of trade would bring the utmost scandal upon the English name, and the utmost doubt upon the sincerity of our wishes to put an end to the slave trade. You could not probably have proved to the satisfaction of juries at Sierra Leone, that they were knowingly aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6702. Mr. Forster.] Then to render such a law effectual you must induce all nations to enter into a common league to carry it out?—I think not; my view is, that England must leave to other countries the control of their own merchant vessels; but especially considering the situation she holds with regard to the slave trade, I think she is bound to prevent such a direct system of aiding and abetting slave trade on the part of English vessels.

6703. Do you think, if England were to do so, that it would have any real tendency to prevent the slave trader obtaining a supply of goods?—Certainly not; as in this instance he got all those goods without the assistance of the British flag; but had the British flag been used, I think it would have been an abominable disgrace.

Veneris, 24º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Mr. E. Denison.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. W. Hamilton.
Sir R. H. Inglis.
Mr. Milnes.

Viscount Sandon, in the chair.

Captain the Honourable Joseph Denman, R. N. called in; and further Examined.

6742. Chairman.] You mentioned that there had been a considerable change in the means employed for putting down the slave trade, within the last two or three years: and you mentioned, in the first instance, a different system of cruizing pursued in consequence of the Equipment Treaty. Has there not been another means lately introduced, by means of destroying the slave factories upon the coast?—The slave factories of the Gallinas were not destroyed as a part of the powers with which I was invested. It was in consequence of peculiar circumstances, which I took advantage of for the purpose.

6743. What was it that entitled you to make that attack?—For a long series of months, the people upon the shore had been guilty of the most inhuman conduct towards my boats, conduct which a state of war would not justify, and which would be a fair subject of war if committed in any civilized country.

6744. You grounded your attack upon information received of the detention in slavery, by the son of the chief of the Gallinas, of two of Her Majesty’s subjects of the colony of Sierra Leone?—I did; but I had long previously intended to destroy the barracoons and the slave factories, if I found the case to be what I supposed it was, upon the grounds that I have before mentioned.

6745. What were those grounds?—The inhuman treatment of my boats. I can show the Committee letters from the officers reporting the treatment they had received. The circumstances detailed in those letters were reported to me by the commander of the ship as having occurred some time previously to the destruction of the factories. This is the report of the officer in the boat; he wrote me this letter subsequently to the affair, at my desire, the circumstances having been stated before. He was entrusted with one of the Rolla’s boats. He says, “I stood out for the purpose of reconnoitring, it blowing a strong breeze, with a head sea. I had not proceeded above three miles from the Alexander,” an American brig, “when the boat was unfortunately stove, and it was with great difficulty she was kept afloat by constant baling with three buckets, until we arrived alongside the Alexander, the captain of which vessel kindly allowed us to hoist her on board for the purpose of repairing. Subsequently the captain of the Alexander going on shore to wait on his consignees, they very strongly expressed their disapprobation at his having rendered any assistance to a British cruizer’s boat, and at the same time regretted that he had not left us to sink or swim. Had the captain complied with their wishes, which had been communicated to him previous to this accident, the only resource left us would have been to attempt beaching the boat, which, owing to the boisterous state of the weather, would have been almost impossible, and probably attended with loss of life to all or most of the crew, the bar at the time being perfectly impassable, and not the slightest probability of keeping the boat afloat for any length of time by means of baling.” That is signed by Mr. George Marriott, mate. In consequence of this prohibition, refuge was repeatedly refused to my boats by friendly vessels disposed to succour them, and had any boat subsequently been in the same condition, she would have been left to drown with all her hands. My whole knowledge of this was from the circumstances reported to me by different officers.

6746. Were there other cases of the same nature?—Other cases of the same nature, produced by threats of the persons on shore, which prevented American and French vessels in the roads, otherwise disposed to do so, having done so before, from affording refuge to our boats under almost similar circumstances. But no case was so strong as that of the boat sinking.

6747. Mr. Forster.] Were those things done by the authority of the native chiefs, or by the authority of the Spanish slave dealers?—Before I went into the river I had no means of knowing; but I considered that the chiefs of the country were responsible for the treatment of cruizers in their waters according to the law of nations.

6748. It appears by the correspondence that the detention of a woman named Try Norman and her child were the grounds you chiefly relied upon to justify that proceeding?—I might have gone upon either ground. I preferred choosing the ground of the detention of that woman and her child; first, because it was an outrage of a far graver nature even than those I have described, which had occurred in the anchorage; and secondly, because it would enable me at once to go to the barracoons to get out all the slaves, to endeavour to find out whether Try Norman and her child were among them.

6749. By which of the chiefs was this woman detained?—By a man of the name of Manna, the eldest son of King Siacca.

6750. Did he assign any reason for detaining this woman and her child; did he justify himself in anyway?—It was impossible that he could justify himself in any way. I considered that the woman Try Norman was as much a British subject as any person in this room. I can see no distinction between his making a slave of her and his making a slave of any white person.

6751. Did he attempt any justification?—He attempted a justification which was utterly unsatisfactory. His justification was, that the person to whom she had been an apprentice had owed him money and that was the ground of his excuse, as appears in the printed correspondence.

6752. Do you know the name of the woman who, he said, owed him money?—I know nothing of it but by his own statement; the woman’s name was Rosanna Gray.

6753. You have read the correspondence?—I have.

6754. Is there not a letter from this Prince Manna, complaining that one of his wives, whom he had sent to Sierra Leone for instruction, had been made a prostitute by this Mrs. Gray?—So it appears in his letter.

6755. Did not his detention of this woman and her child arise out of that transaction?—Such was his statement.

6756. Did you inquire, when you arrived at Sierra Leone, whether there was any ground for that statement?—I did make some inquiry about it, and Mrs. Gray stated that the girl had run after the men herself. I put the correspondence into the governor’s hands, and requested him to afford such redress to Prince Manna as the case might require.

6757. But you ascertained that she had been under the care of Mrs. Gray?—There was no doubt of that fact, I believe.

6758. Then, at all events, you destroyed those factories and barracoons on your own responsibility, and not by virtue of any treaty with Spain?—I destroyed those barracoons upon my own responsibility, because I found that the Spanish slave dealers had been the persons who had been the cause of the inhuman treatment of my boats at sea, in the first place; in the second place, I found in those barracoons two British subjects. The destruction of the barracoons and factories was done through the medium of the consent of the native chiefs.

6759. Chairman.] Did you not act in some degree under instructions from the governor of Sierra Leone?—The governor of Sierra Leone had no power to give me any instructions; he merely mentioned the circumstances, and requested me to take the necessary measures for redeeming this woman; I considered that a stronger ground to go upon than that which I before intended to go upon, and I therefore adopted that which appeared most advantageous.

6760. Mr. Forster.] Did the native chiefs grant that authority to destroy the property of the Spaniards voluntarily?—Decidedly; they agreed to destroy it themselves, upon the grounds stated in the correspondence.

6761. It would appear by the correspondence that they showed great unwillingness to meet you and confer with you on the subject of your mission, when you arrived there?—For the obvious reason, that Prince Manna felt, that having held a British subject in captivity, he was in a very awkward position; I think that is explained in my letter to Governor Doherty.

6762. In the letter of the 20th of November you call upon King Siacca to “destroy their factories, and their contents, or consent to Captain Denman’s doing so, and that he will deliver up the slaves who have been carried into the bush from the factories.” You mean that he consented after you had made a requisition to this effect?—Undoubtedly; a requisition to that effect was made, because he stated that the white slave factors had got him into the scrape without his knowledge, and without his authority; and also because I found them in possession of British subjects for the purpose of exportation.

6763. The first article of your treaty with him stipulates that he shall totally destroy “the factories belonging to these white men, without delay,” and in a sort of postscript to the treaty, you promise him the forfeiture of the goods belonging to the Spaniards that were deposited in the Spanish stores?—I made no promise of the sort. The postscript states, that King Siacca having declared that the white slave dealers have acted in defiance of his laws, he considers their goods are forfeited to him; for that reason my demand for their destruction was withdrawn, and I consented that he should take possession of them.

6764. In point of fact, they received as the reward of their consent, the whole of the property belonging to the Spaniards that was found in the stores at the Gallinas?—No, it was not so, for the treaty was already entered into before this permission was made; and, moreover, at the time this treaty was made they had already taken possession of the goods out of all the factories but one.

6765. But, at all events, they got the goods as the result of their proceedings?—They undoubtedly got the goods. I do not mean that the chiefs got the goods, but the people in general got the goods.

6766. Do you think that the Spaniards were settled there with the approbation or consent of the chiefs?—I believe that the Spaniards did settle there, in the first instance, with the consent of the chiefs; but I believe that they afterwards became very powerful, and were exceedingly hated by the chiefs. I had various complaints from the natives of the haughty and disgusting treatment which they received from the Spaniards.

6767. If they were so averse to the settlement of those Spanish slave dealers, how did it appear to be necessary to insert an article in the treaty, binding King Siacca that no white man should ever for the future settle in his country for the purpose of slave dealing?—I thought it desirable to prevent the possibility of the slave trade being re-established by the white people, as it had been before established.

6768. Captain Fitzroy.] Does it follow, that because the chiefs were averse to those Spaniards living with them, that they should also be averse to every other white man who might come there?—I thought there was a very considerable chance of the slave trade being re-established by white men afterwards.

6769. And therefore you took such steps as you thought best to prevent any similar settlement?—To prevent any similar settlement, and to give us a right to compel them to send them out of the country again if ever they should resume such practices. It was a precautionary measure.

6770. Mr. Forster.] Does it not seem somewhat inconsistent with the seventh article of the treaty, which stipulates that “no white man from Sierra Leone shall settle down in King Siacca’s country without his full permission and consent”?—It seems to me quite in accordance with the other principle. I say, “No white man shall sit down as a slave trader.” King Siacca, upon the other hand, in order to insure himself against his country being taken possession of by the English, proposes this, which I accede to. It was a proposal of the chiefs on the part of the King Siacca.

6771. Does it not imply that the king was averse to allow British traders to settle there from Sierra Leone?—I think it bears upon its face that he was averse, for the reason I have before stated.

6772. Chairman.] Did you feel yourself entitled, by King Siacca’s country having been made the means of carrying on a slave trade, through which some of Her Majesty’s subjects had been made slaves, to make stipulations which should prevent the recurrence of such an outrage for the future?—Not only entitled, but bound to do so.

6773. And you conceived that one of the most effectual means for that purpose would be to prevent other white men, foreigners, from taking advantage of King Siacca’s country as a position from which to carry on a trade which endangered the safety of Her Majesty’s subjects and their free passage into that neighbourhood?—I will state the principle upon which I acted, and the relation in which I considered that we stood towards King Siacca. In the first place, the outrages and inhospitality committed in his waters I considered him responsible for; secondly, I considered him responsible for holding Sierra Leone people in his country as slaves for the purpose of traffic. Upon his declaring that he knew nothing of those acts, I considered it perfectly just that the punishment should be visited upon the persons who had committed those crimes, and who had been the cause of those crimes.

6774. And you felt yourself entitled, if the king professed an inability to prevent others from taking advantage of his territory for purposes injurious to the security of British subjects, to take means yourself for securing such objects?—I entered into a treaty for the purpose of preventing future proceedings of the description that had already occurred, and enabling me to meet such cases if they should recur.

6775. Mr. Forster.] Is it not your opinion that it has been owing to the preference given to Spanish slave dealers that British merchants have not sooner established themselves at the Gallinas, and carried on commercial pursuits there?—In my Report to the Governor of Sierra Leone upon the state and prospects of trade in the Gallinas, in page 15 of the Printed Papers, I say, “When the English slave trade was abolished, considerable traffic sprung up and was rapidly increasing when the Spaniards commenced the slave trade in about 1817. From that time legitimate commerce gradually withered, and was at length totally annihilated by the establishment of a permanent slave factory in-shore, about 15 years ago, by Pedro Blanco, at that time mate of a slave vessel. Since then the slave trade has been the only pursuit, and during the long period that has since elapsed, not enough produce has been exported to form the cargo of the smallest coasting vessel.”

6776. Had there been any legitimate trade carried on at the Gallinas previous to your operations there?—A passage in the letter I have just read states my opinion upon that subject, derived from information from the chiefs themselves.

6777. Chairman.] You mean by legitimate commerce, the exchange of manufactures for produce?—Exactly; and I stated that there was no legitimate commerce, because there was no produce whatever. Might I be allowed to refer to a question and answer that I understand has been put referring to the Gallinas. I have been informed that this question was put to Mr. Peters: “You do not think Captain Denman’s observations upon the subject practically of any value.” Now I beg to observe that Mr. Peters can never have seen my observations upon the subject. The answer of Mr. Peters is, that I thought I had put an effectual stop to the slave trade in the Gallinas, and that many others thought so.

6778. Mr. Forster.] In a letter to the Governor of Sierra Leone, dated the 12th of December, you say that the people at the Gallinas “have already, in a wild state, but of the finest quality, cotton, indigo, pepper, and palm nut, the sugar cane and tobacco, which they are enabled to cure. Salt is procured in considerable quantities, and there is no doubt that coffee would flourish as well as at Sierra Leone and Monrovia.” Do you wish the Committee to understand that if a trader from Sierra Leone were to go there with goods, he could obtain in exchange for them any of those articles you have enumerated?—With regard to the tobacco there is a misprint; instead of “enabled to cure” it should be “unable to cure.” I have stated in the same letter that no cultivation whatever did exist, and that I used every effort to persuade the chiefs to cultivate the soil. My information was derived from the chiefs as to the existence of these articles.

6779. Chairman.] Do cotton, indigo, pepper, palm nut, the sugar cane, and tobacco, grow there in a wild state, and are they of good quality?—It is a fact that I derived from the unanimous declaration of the chiefs of the country.

6780. Mr. Aldam.] Are there any means of carrying on any considerable commerce at the present moment?—Certainly not. It must begin upon a small scale, as elsewhere; it does not spring at once into a considerable commerce.

6781. Mr. Forster.] Are you of opinion that there is nothing questionable in the proceedings of our navy in destroying the property of foreigners in a foreign country, and encouraging the native chiefs in those proceedings, with reference to the moral effect of it upon the minds of the chiefs and the natives?—It depends entirely upon circumstances. If aggressions have been committed against persons belonging to Sierra Leone (and I can conceive no aggressions or injuries so great as that of making British subjects slaves), I consider that those people are in every respect entitled to the same protection as white people. Indeed I consider that the liberated Africans of Sierra Leone have peculiar claims to the regard and protection and favour of England. I see no distinction whatever between them and British subjects. Supposing three British subjects had been held in this way, I conceive it would have been highly improper to have allowed such a proceeding to pass unnoticed.

6782. Chairman.] You rest your proceeding at the Gallinas, not upon the general ground of using means for putting down the slave trade, but upon the specific offences committed by the chiefs of the Gallinas against British subjects settled at Sierra Leone, and their inhospitality to your crews upon the coast?—Precisely so.

6783. Therefore you do not consider that you are making a precedent for indiscriminate descents upon the coast, wherever a slave barracoon is established, for the purpose of destroying it as a means of putting down the slave trade?—In the proceeding adopted by me at the Gallinas, the grounds were exactly those stated in the preceding question. At the same time I conceive that the destruction of barracoons and slave places not in settlements belonging to European powers, would be justifiable all over the coast. Nothing of the sort had been done before, and therefore I did it under very heavy responsibility. I could not have struck out a new line without some special grounds to go upon.

6784. Should you consider yourself entitled, without any of those peculiar grounds for the interposition which the proceedings at the Gallinas gave you, to make a descent upon any point of the coast under the jurisdiction of a native chief, where slaves were collected for the purpose of exportation, and destroying those barracoons, and insisting upon the slave trade being given up?—I should think myself perfectly justified in doing so whoever the slave factor might be. Whether it would be borne out by my instructions from the Admiralty would depend upon what those instructions were.

6785. You would conceive yourself, if you were an officer on that station now, entitled to pursue that as a general method of putting down the slave trade?—I should certainly have pursued it had I remained.

6785*. Do you conceive yourself entitled to do this under instructions, under treaties, or entirely upon your own responsibility, without any direct authority?—I consider that it might have been done upon my own responsibility entirely, upon the footing that the law of nations can afford no sort of recognition of the dealing in slaves by Spaniards in a foreign country. And secondly, that those persons were criminals by their own laws, and could not look to protection from their own government. So long as the slave trade was clearly and distinctly separated from legitimate trade, I consider that such proceedings would have been perfectly justifiable.

6786. Supposing a native chief had collected slaves in barracoons upon his own territory for exportation, should you then have felt yourself justified in destroying such places?—I should have considered myself justified in following the same system there, upon the ground that the native chiefs are not recognized amongst the nations of the world; they are in a barbarous state, and the law of nations, in my opinion, cannot apply to them further than for their own good and their own protection, and I should have considered the destruction of those buildings and the taking off the slaves as an act most directly and most importantly tending to their own good and benefit.

6787. Captain Fitzroy.] It has appeared in evidence before this Committee that the Pluto sailed from Fernando Po, under orders from the Admiralty, to destroy any barracoons or other slaving establishments that she might meet with in various parts of the coast, not being the property of Europeans; were similar instructions issued to the officers on that coast while you were there?—I saw instructions to that effect a few weeks before I left that coast.

6788. From the Admiralty?—From the Admiralty.

6789. Chairman.] Have you been at the Gallinas since?—Yes, I have been three or four times at the Gallinas.

6790. Has the effect of what you did been to put down the slave trade, or to what extent has it done so?—It has nearly broken up the system then followed, except as regards the south-east branch of the river, upon which a place called Soolimane stands; there was, when I was at the river, a small factory there, which I did not destroy, as I had no case against it, and this is the factory which Captain Blount has recently destroyed. In the part where I went, it does not appear that any slave trade has sprung up again.

6791. You conceive then that if this process is followed, it will be effectual for its object?—My opinion is, that in such a part of the coast as the Gallinas, blockade alone is quite sufficient to stop the slave trade. These measures, of course, render the operation of the blockade more quick. But I had kept a blockade up at that place for nearly a year, during which only two vessels had escaped. Nearly 20 vessels had been captured, and they were reduced to despair. Every American vessel generally used to inform my officers that the slave dealers declared they could not carry on the trade under the pressure of a blockade so maintained. The blockade during a great part of the time, both at Cestos, where similar results were produced, and at the Gallinas, was carried on for the greater part of the time at the Gallinas by my ship alone, and at Cestos by the Termagant alone, under my orders.

6792. During that blockade, did you prevent the access of any vessel bringing goods into the country?—I interfered with only vessels equipped for the slave trade; goods to purchase the slaves I could not interfere with. Had they been brought in British vessels, I should certainly have seized those vessels; but I should have been very doubtful whether conviction would have followed under the penal clauses, where the necessity of proving the knowledge of the party is so difficult.

6793. But you would have taken the risk?—I should have felt it my duty to take that risk.

6794. Mr. Aldam.] Did any British vessels attempt to go in during that period with goods?—No, not while I was there.

6795. Chairman.] Did any vessels of any nation come in with lawful goods during that period?—There is a list of them in the correspondence.

6796. Mr. Forster.] Then if a British vessel, laden with lawful merchandise, had attempted to enter the Gallinas, you would have seized her?—Not so, exactly; but if British vessels had come under the same circumstances as American vessels did, with cargoes consigned from Pedro Blanco to Thomas Buron, both notorious slave dealers, to be paid for at the Havannah, or in dollars there, I certainly should have seized them.

6797. How could you have known how the goods were to be paid for?—I should have considered it a clear case of aiding and abetting the slave trade, as clear as it is possible for any thing to be.

6798. How could you have learned that the goods would be paid for at the Havannah in dollars?—I think it is immaterial whether they were paid for in dollars at the Havannah or at the Gallinas; but the fact that they were not paid for in produce, and that it was distinctly putting goods into the hands of the Spaniard Buron to buy slaves with, would, in my opinion, make it a clear case of aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6799. Chairman.] And you would argue, from those circumstances, that guilty knowledge could not be absent?—Guilty knowledge could not be absent, in my opinion, in such a case. It may repeatedly happen that, in default of proving their guilty knowledge, people may escape; whereas every one but the criminal himself perfectly well knows the character of the trade which is going on, and which alone could be going on at such a place. Sierra Leone juries are exceedingly careful to have the fact of the knowledge imprinted upon the mind of the culprit proved to them; and unless it is proved they will not convict.

6800. Mr. Forster.] At all events, you would have assumed the guilty knowledge, and seized the vessel under the supposed circumstances?—I should; and had I not done so, I think my conduct would have been open to a court-martial.

6801. You have stated that you think the slave trade can be effectually prevented, and was effectually prevented, by a blockade at the Gallinas?—It can certainly be effectually prevented, and was effectually prevented to such an extent that during 9 or 10 months but two vessels escaped, and about 20 were captured.

6802. Then it was not necessary, for the purpose of putting down the slave trade there, to destroy the Spanish property?—My reflection in such a case always would be, the miseries that the slaves on shore were enduring in consequence of this; and I should always be eager to take every opportunity of relieving them from it. It would be undoubtedly the most effectual measure possible.

6803. The using means to put down the slave trade, or to throw difficulties in the way of the slave trade, carries a moral justification with it, which no one can question; but do you think the means you took in that case were altogether justifiable, upon the ground of example to the natives, and the native chiefs; do not you think they might misunderstand those proceedings, and that it might lead to conduct on their part prejudicial to the interests of British commerce?—I think not in any way whatever; I think the operation would be the opposite.

6804. Chairman.] Are you aware that any British commerce has followed since those operations against the Gallinas?—No, it has not; I knew very shortly afterwards that they were endeavouring to re-establish the slave trade about there, and I kept the blockade up, intending to knock them down immediately the fine season commenced, and that has been done by Captain Blount.

6805. Mr. Forster.] From your experience in Africa you are aware of the great importance of setting all ranks of the natives a high example of honour, and equity, and honesty, in all dealings and transactions; and the question is, whether the effect of those proceedings in that point of view may not render them open to objection. Is it not your opinion, considering that they are not themselves opposed to the slave trade, that they might be at some loss to understand, on any principle of justice, why you should be at liberty to destroy the property of a Spaniard who favoured the trade which they also favoured, and they not be at equal liberty to destroy the property of a British merchant who was opposed to them on the subject of the slave trade?—They are perfectly well aware that the one trade is a legal trade and that the other is a prohibited trade; and they are, moreover, perfectly sensible of the injustice of the custom of selling their fellow-creatures.

6806. Chairman.] You find them open to feelings of that nature?—Perfectly; the argumentum ad hominem always tells very well with them.

6807. Mr. Forster.] In your opinion, do they consider the slave trade a crime?—They do not consider it a crime, because it is not against their laws; but they perfectly well know that it is opposed to every principle of justice, that it is founded upon the grossest injustice and cruelty, and that it is productive of the utmost misery.

6808. How could they reconcile it to their notions of justice that you should destroy the property of Spaniards for doing that which is legal according to their own civil institutions?—Because they are perfectly aware that the Spaniards are carrying on a contraband and prohibited trade, and therefore they are not surprised to find that their vessels are captured; nor are they much surprised when they find that their slaves on shore are emancipated. The one is just as easily to be reconciled to their minds as the other.

6809. Chairman.] Have you found, among any of the native chiefs with whom you have had to deal, a feeling against this as an act of injustice?—No, I cannot say that I have, in any instance. On the contrary, I have a letter from the chiefs of Sea Bar, distinguishing their position altogether from that of the Gallinas people, and, upon that ground, begging that I would not come and burn them down.

6810. Do you think they are aware that the slave trade, if carried on by any European nation, is a trade in itself illegal?—They are perfectly aware of it.

6811. Mr. Aldam.] How do the chiefs at Sea Bar distinguish between their case and the case of the Gallinas?—It is rather a difficult letter to understand. It was sent off with two ducks, which I believe were poisoned for my benefit. It is a long letter. It alludes to General Turner’s endeavours to get possession of their country, and then points out that it is not under the English laws, and that they have received intelligence from the Gallinas that I have burnt and destroyed the Spanish factories, and that it is my intention to come to Sea Bar and do the same; and it ends with something like a threat, that if we did do it, we might be insulted by their people, which they should be sorry for.

6812. Will you have the goodness to deliver in the letter?—

[The same was delivered in, and read as follows:]

“Sea Bar.” On Her Majesty’s Service.

To Deman Esq., Commander of Her Majesty’s brig Wander.

Hon. Sir, 2 December 1840.

Be it known to you and all other officers commanding Her Majesty’s vessels cruizing on this part of Africa, particularly off Sea Bar, that we the undermentioned gentlemen of this country, do with the greatest honour to you and all Her Majesty’s subjects, do relate and acquaint you of our poor late and respected father, Mr. James Tucker, chief of this country, which I have no doubt the Government knows the same, as he told them when they consulted together with Messrs. Rendall, Macauley, Campbell, and several other gentlemen of the colony of Sierra Leone, when with intention to put him under the controul of the English laws, but which he did not consent to, stating that it was his living throughout all his ancient family, and he had no other means for his livelyhood, yes certainly the inhabitants of the colony of Sierra Leone trade in this river, but their trade is no profit nor benefit to us in this country, although they receive a great assistance from this country, but however we have received intelligence from the Gallinas that you the subject of Her Majesty’s have burnt and destroyed all the Spanish factories in that country, and that it is your intention coming down here at Sea Bar, and will act the same here as have done with Gallinas, so therefore we the under gentlemen of this country do beg and warn you with the greatest friendship towards Her Majesty’s subjects to acquaint you that this part of the country is very different with the Gallinas, as the land is our and all the standing property and building is belonging to us, and in case they should be destroyed and burnt down on account of foreigners, it cannot be an injury to them, but to us in the country; we very knows that it is a law between the different nations of Europe for diminishing that traffic, but however it dont concern with us as they comes to us, if you meet them outside to sea, but coming in the rivers and destroying places, so therefore hearing such news from Her Majesty’s subjects about this country and taking as friends, and if you coming on any purpose you dont let us know in the country and burn any place belonging to us; as we do honour the English colour for fear of coming in such a manner, perhaps some of our subjects might do what may be an insult to the English flag, and we dont wish such a thing to be between us, so therefore we beg you all to allow us the liberty of relating to you the aforementioned laws of this country, and hoping it will not be an offence to you.

We remain, &c.

Tessana Town,
2 December 1840.

}

Henry Tucker.
Johnny Tucker.
Jack Tucker.

6813. Chairman.] Did you have intercourse with those chiefs after that letter?—No, I did not. The rainy season was coming on, and I was compelled to go to another part of my station.

6814. Captain Fitzroy.] Did Governor Doherty make a requisition to you, that you should take those measures with respect to the Gallinas which you have described?—The only requisition from Governor Doherty to me was, to recover the woman and her child, who had been made slaves of by Prince Manna.

6815. Did Governor Doherty express himself satisfied, or otherwise, with the result of your expedition to the Gallinas?—In the first letter in the correspondence before the Committee, a despatch to Lord John Russell, Governor Doherty expresses, in the strongest way, his satisfaction.

6816. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Having received the approbation of the local government near the scene of your exploit, have you also received any expression of approbation on the part of Her Majesty’s Government, either on the part of the Colonial-office, or of the Admiralty, or of both?—The Colonial Secretary and the Foreign Secretary both expressed, in the strongest terms, their approbation of my proceedings. My despatches to the Admiralty did not arrive till the middle of July. They had, however, previously approved of my conduct, although they had declared that they could not entertain the question with reference to promotion, as the despatches had not come to them. The despatches sent through the senior officer arrived at the Admiralty in July, and I was promoted in August.

6817. Were you promoted by the Admiralty with reference to those services?—No, I cannot say that; I think they may also have considered that as affording some claim, from the tone of letters which I have seen, not addressed to myself, by the Foreign and the Colonial Secretaries.

6818. But the approbation of the Colonial Secretary and of the Foreign Secretary was absolute?—It was absolute.

6819. And the approbation of the Admiralty may be inferred from the fact of your promotion?—That approbation was expressed, in the first instance, by them before they received the despatches, from what had appeared before Parliament.

6820. Mr. Aldam.] Has the Admiralty issued orders for other officers in similar cases to follow the same course?—I think the Admiralty has done so.

6821. Mr. Forster.] You wish the Committee distinctly to understand that you think such means as you resorted to would not have the effect of offering a bad example to the native chiefs, which they might imitate, and under some pretext or other to seize upon British property?—I think not; I think no example in the natives engaged in the slave trade can possibly make them worse than they are while such traffic is there pursued, nor is there a possibility of improvement until it is stopped.

6822. You think that, when the slave trade is once put down, British settlements planted at the parts where it has been carried on will keep it down?—I think eventually legitimate trade will keep it down; I do not limit it to British settlements only, although British settlements would undoubtedly have a good effect for that object.

6823. Then if a British settlement had been founded at the Gallinas on the completion of your operations there, you think the slave trade would have been permanently suppressed?—Undoubtedly I think so, if founded on good principles.

6824. In your last examination you spoke in terms of strong condemnation of the traders upon the coast having any commercial dealings with persons suspected of being engaged in the slave trade; now, without requiring from a naval commander an intimate or practical knowledge of the principles of commerce, it may nevertheless be reasonable to ask you, after the strong opinions you have expressed, how British trade in Africa could possibly be successfully carried on in competition with foreigners under any restrictions such as you have pointed at?—The restriction that I recommend is, that there should be such a change in the law as to enable us to seize and to condemn any vessel that trades with a notorious slave factory, there being no other trade but the slave trade there prosecuted; also, against the supply of slave ships with goods for the purposes of their traffic, and also against the sale of vessels calculated for the slave trade to slave dealers. In my opinion, those three practices should be stopped.

6825. Do you know Senor Caetano, at the Bissao?—I know who he is, well.

6826. You have stated in your former evidence, that Senor Caetano dealt both in produce and in slaves; how would you act in his case?—I have stated that it would be impossible to distinguish in such cases.

6827. You are aware that slavery and slave dealing are extensively carried on in Cuba?—Undoubtedly; the slave trade to a much diminished extent of late.

6828. And you are aware that it is equally the case in Brazil?—I am aware that it is also the case in the Brazils.

6829. And also in the southern states of the North American Union?—I have no reason to believe that any slave trade whatever exists there, except the slave trade from one part of the coast to another; I believe that no new slaves are introduced.

6830. Are you aware that they buy and sell slaves throughout the southern states of the Union?—Yes; I am speaking of the external slave trade; slavery implies the right of selling slaves within their territory; I mean that they have no external slave trade, to the best of my belief.

6831. Do you draw any distinction between slaves sold and shipped from Virginia to New Orleans, as compared with slaves shipped from the coast of Africa?—Unquestionably; they were at Virginia in the same condition as they are again at New Orleans; it is merely a change of locality in the same country or state, quite distinct from the African slave trade.

6832. Are the slaves shipped from the coast of Africa in the same condition in the West Indies as they were in previously to their being shipped from the coast of Africa?—No, decidedly they are not; they are in a very different condition in Africa from what they are in the West Indies; they are not equally slaves; their condition is entirely different. The whole bearing and meaning of the trade is as different as possible, in my opinion.

6833. Do you draw any distinction, in a moral point of view, between selling and shipping men from the state of Virginia to the Mississippi, as compared with selling and shipping men from Africa to the West Indies?—I consider the case is altogether different; as distinct as possible.

6834. Do you consider that there is any difference in a moral point of view?—Yes, I think there is a difference in a moral point of view. In my opinion, the distinction between commerce with slave states in America and commerce with slave factories in Africa is this: the commerce with the slave factories in Africa, in the cases I have before contemplated, goes there entirely for the purpose of purchasing and making men slaves: the commerce with the slave states of America has no such tendency whatever; the slaves are already property. In my opinion, there is the broadest distinction between the cases.

6835. Then you disapprove of selling goods to persons connected with the slave trade on the coast of Africa, not on account of the moral difference of the act, but on account of the difference of the tendency and consequences of that act?—I consider that, in every case, the dealings of British merchants with slave dealers, although their produce trade may be mixed with the slave trade, is, in a very high degree, objectionable and improper; but, at the same time, I do not think that we can separate them; I do not think it would be politic, or for the benefit of Africa, or for the cause that England has in hand, to endeavour to carry the distinction between them too far.

6836. But if it be wrong or immoral to have dealings with persons engaged in the slave trade, is it not equally wrong for a British merchant to ship and sell goods to a slave merchant in Cuba and Brazil, as it is to sell goods to a slave dealer on the coast of Africa, so far as the moral question is concerned?—I think so, decidedly, supposing those goods are intended to go into the slave trade, and it is known that they will go into the slave trade.

6837. Are you not aware, from your observation on the coast, that most of the goods, if not all, the cotton goods in particular, brought to the coast of Africa by Spanish and Portuguese slave dealers, are manufactured in this country?—I am perfectly aware of it; I consider this highly objectionable, in the same way as the mixed trade upon the coast is; but I do not think it would be wise to interfere with it.

6838. The Committee cannot but highly appreciate and deeply sympathise with your benevolent feelings on this subject; but do you consider yourself sufficiently familiar with the searching effects of commerce, to pronounce a sound opinion on the collateral tendency of trade to supersede the slave trade on the coast of Africa, even when carried on with persons connected with the slave trade?—I consider myself perfectly qualified to give opinions, so far as I have given them. The opinions I have given, I feel myself perfectly qualified to give, and to support.

6839. Chairman.] You do not see any indirect advantage in dealing with persons solely engaged in the slave trade, by means of lawful goods, sufficient to counterbalance the direct evil of the facilities given by that means to the slave trade?—The case of the Gallinas, I think, is a perfect answer to the question; no good whatever is derived from the exchange of the commodities of the civilized world for slaves. There is no export of produce in that district of the coast. I conceive that this commerce has no good effect whatever.

6840. You think it promotes no industry?—On the contrary, it annihilates it.

6841. Mr. Forster.] You have stated that there has been no British commerce carried on there to any extent?—In the Return which I have already referred to, in the 14th page of this correspondence, is given an account of the trade which formerly did exist, and which, under the withering influence of the slave trade, has been utterly destroyed. There is no doubt that there was considerable export trade at one time from the Gallinas; they exported rice, and they exported produce. Now they are obliged to import rice to feed themselves; cattle, which were formerly abundant, are now hardly to be procured, and then only at an enormous expense. They used to get cattle from Sierra Leone. Indeed, the only case I know of any communication with Sierra Leone, while I was last on the coast, was, in one or two instances of very small boats, not above six or seven tons, which had in one instance cattle and sheep on board. In the second instance I did not search her.

6842. You have stated that the Gallinas has been principally supplied with goods for the slave trade by foreign ships, and not by British traders?—That has been my statement.

6843. You have stated also that you would have felt it your duty to prevent English trading vessels entering there?—Under certain circumstances, which I have detailed.

6844. Are you not of opinion that if British commerce had been encouraged there, and more particularly if a British settlement had been formed there, British commerce would have been of material assistance in discountenancing and putting down the slave trade at the Gallinas?—Legitimate commerce at the Gallinas has been eradicated and annihilated by the sole influence of the slave trade. It existed there, and the slave trade annihilated it. Had a British settlement been formed there, the results might have been different.

6845. Chairman.] Do you think the results would have been different if the same goods had been brought by English ships carrying on the same trade as the foreign ships?—I do not see, had they been brought in the same way as the goods were brought in the foreign ships, how any difference would have been made. It would have been the same unmixed evil as it has been when carried on under the American flag.

6846. Mr. Forster.] Then it is only by the formation of British settlements that you think the advantages of British commerce could be fully realized there?—I think the advantages of legitimate commerce will commence when they make their minds up that the slave trade will no longer supply them with what they have been hitherto accustomed to receive, and that that might be further assisted by the formation of a settlement, I have no doubt whatever.

6847. Sir R. H. Inglis.] Have you any means of knowing how the slaves in the barracoons at the Gallinas were procured for the slave market; whether they were born in slavery, or were made slaves for the mere purpose of sale?—The fact that the general system of society in Africa is slavery, I believe is universally admitted. Those people were brought down from the interior to meet the demand upon the coast.

6848. Do you mean the Committee to understand that in your opinion they were born slaves, and brought up to the slave market, or that, having been free, they were made slaves for the slave market?—In my opinion they were all born in a state of domestic slavery, answering to a sort of villeinage in the early periods of our own history. But my belief is, that no African chief dare sell his domestic slaves in this way, except occasionally under the pretence of crimes committed, or of debts owing; they are generally, I fancy, either kidnapped or taken in wars, or in the ways I before mentioned.

6849. The kidnapping and the wars being for the purpose of supplying the slave market?—Undoubtedly, in my opinion.

6850. Chairman.] Do you derive your information of the internal condition of the Africans from investigations of your own, or from what you have read?—Partly from inquiries I made while in shore at the Gallinas and up the Nunez.

6851. You do not believe that, generally speaking, the chiefs, the owners of slaves in Africa, have the right of selling their own slaves?—By no means; I believe they dare not do it; that the population would at once rise against it.

6852. Mr. Aldam.] Do you consider that the slaves are generally prisoners taken in wars that have incidentally arisen, or that there are wars carried on for the purpose of making slaves?—I believe both to a great extent; I believe that wars are frequently begun for the purpose of taking prisoners and making slaves, and frequently by agreement between two chiefs, who dare not sell their own people. They go to war in order to take each other’s people.

6853. Mr. Forster.] Did you hear of instances of that kind while you were in the country?—I have heard statements of that kind from persons conversant with the country up the rivers, and also from the natives.

6854. Captain Fitzroy.] Referring to the letter which you have produced from the chiefs of Sea-bar, was that letter written by a native?—It was written undoubtedly by a negro, whether a native of Sierra Leone, trading to Sea-bar, or whether one of the chiefs there, I cannot say; but I have seen natives write infinitely better than that.

6855. It is signed by Henry Tucker; who was that Henry Tucker?—He was one of the chiefs of the country in the neighbourhood of Sea-bar; they are a family who have dominion there.

6856. Was that chief, Tucker, educated at Sierra Leone?—I cannot say; I believe he was, but I am not sure about it.

6857. (To Captain Hill.) Are you aware by whom that letter was written?—I was at Sea-bar frequently, and have frequently seen Harry Tucker, and have also seen a person whom he introduced to me as his secretary, who, on conversation, I ascertained to be Harry Tucker’s son, and this son was writing letters for him; and I asked his son where he learned to write, and he told me that he was educated at Sierra Leone; and Harry Tucker also told me, that he sent two or three of his sons to Sierra Leone to learn to read and write.

6858. Then, it is your belief that that letter was written by a son of a native chief, who was educated at Sierra Leone?—Yes.

6859. Mr. Aldam, to Captain Denman.] Where is Sea-bar?—It lies between Sierra Leone and Gallinas. It is the passage between the south-eastern end of the Sherboro’ Island and the main land.

6860. Captain Fitzroy.] Is “Sea-bar,” the place named in the letter, the same as the River “Shebar,” in the map?—It is the same.

6861. Mr. Hamilton.] Had you any opportunity of making any observation as to the climate of the Gallinas; how far it would be fit for Europeans to live there?—As far as my observations went, they were rather favourable, for I went in at not a very good time of the year, and, out of upwards of 100 men, I think that only two or three deaths occurred. I believe only two men died after having been on shore a week.

6862. Going up in the boats?—Yes.

6863. Is the ground swampy, or is there any high ground in the neighbourhood?—The ground is rather low, but some of the islands are as healthy as any of that part of Africa; indeed, the contrast between that river and some of the rivers we afterwards went up, at a more favourable season, was remarkable.

6864. Mr. Milnes.] Did you not fall in with a vessel called the Echo, bringing a cargo of goods to the Coast of Africa?—I did, a Hamburgh vessel; I think it was on the 11th of December.

6865. Had you any reason to suspect her of having any connexion with the slave trade?—The officer who was sent on board her found that her cargo was consigned from the Havannah, I think from Charles Tyng to Mr. Canôt, a slave dealer at New Cestos, and she had also on board a Spanish supercargo, affording strong ground for suspecting her, indeed proof, that she was engaged in aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6866. Do you regard any commerce in which ships might be engaged with a slave factory as necessarily abetting the slave trade?—Not all commerce; but I consider that if she were sailing with goods consigned from one slave dealer to another she would be aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6867. Chairman.] You mean that there could be no doubt of the guilty intent of the parties?—There could be no doubt of the guilty intent of the parties to aid and abet the slave trade.

6868. Mr. Forster.] Are you of an opinion that a Hamburgh vessel could not lawfully enter into a charter-party to the Havannah, to convey goods to a slave factory on the coast of Africa?—I think that where a Hamburgh vessel is carrying a cargo under the same circumstances I have described, it forms the strongest reason to suspect that she may be doing still worse.

6869. Mr. Milnes.] You searched that Hamburgh vessel?—Upon the 11th of December; it was late in the evening when I boarded her. The officer returned to me, reporting after a very imperfect search, indeed after no search, that he found on board nothing to condemn her, and that he had given a certificate to that effect.

6870. Do you think that that certificate was prematurely given?—No, that the search that I had to institute was under the treaty, and therefore I considered her entitled to a certificate, although I certainly intended, if I fell in with her again, to search her more perfectly, as I was not satisfied upon the subject; all I could say then was, that nothing was found.

6871. What time did the first search take?—It was not a search, it was a visit; it did not amount to a search; it was a visit to the ship, and some little examination, perhaps lifting the hatches; it was in one sense a search, but a most imperfect search; it did not occupy above half an hour.

6872. Did you afterwards see Mr. Canôt, upon the subject of that vessel?—I afterwards saw Mr. Canôt, not upon the subject of that vessel; he mentioned to me that he expected a vessel with a cargo.

6873. Under what circumstances did you search the Echo a second time?—Upon our arrival at New Cestos, considering her exposed to the worst suspicions, after I found that she was consigned to Mr. Canôt, I caused a most perfect search to be instituted; the hold was cleared, and she was thoroughly searched for slave equipments. It should be observed, that the right of search is never carried to anything like this extent, except in cases justifying the strongest suspicion.

6874. How long did that search take?—I think from the 15th to the 18th of December.

6875. Were you then satisfied by the result of that search that there were no grounds for seizing the Echo?—I certainly found nothing, in my opinion, to convict her; at that time there was nothing detected on board her to warrant detention; had there been, I should have detained her of course.

6876. Did you or your master entrust to the captain of the Echo certain captured Spaniards, to take to the Havannah?—When I was about to sail from New Cestos, I allowed a prize crew of Spaniards, who had been captured in a prize, to go on board this vessel, to endeavour to get a passage back to their own country.

6877. Did you use any persuasion to Captain Soms to call at Sierra Leone, as he states in the papers you have seen?—I never was on board her in the first place, and I never saw Captain Soms; in the second place, the master, on returning on board the Wanderer, told me, that he had advised the captain of the Echo to go to Sierra Leone with the view of getting passengers; subsequently, when I heard that the vessel was captured, I recollect distinctly saying to the master, “Oh, they will think you have betrayed them into the hands of the Sierra Leone government.” The advice was given without my authority, and without my knowledge until afterwards; but I saw no harm in the advice.

6878. Could the Echo have incurred any culpability with regard to the slave trade between the time when you examined her and her seizure at Sierra Leone?—Very possibly.

6879. How?—She might have entered into an arrangement to carry away a cargo of slaves from another part of the coast; she might have equipped herself for slave dealing; it does not at all follow because she was apparently free from liability to capture when I was on board her, that she should not have done something subsequently that rendered her so.

6880. You do not consider your having declared her to be innocent to be a sufficient ground for saying that she was not guilty at Sierra Leone at a subsequent period?—It was certainly no sort of guarantee against the consequences of any future proceedings that she might choose to take.

6881. Sir R. H. Inglis.] It was not either a retrospective or a prospective guarantee; it was a guarantee only that on the 11th of December, when you visited her, she at that time had no primâ facie evidence of being engaged in the slave trade; is that your impression upon the subject?—It was no particular guarantee, but it was a certificate which the treaties, under the authority of which I searched her, declared that I was to furnish her with; it was a certificate to the effect that the treaty required.

6882. Chairman.] Was that certificate a security to her against any further search by any other man-of-war on the station?—It would probably operate against any further search, because they would not take the trouble to do it unless they had some new reason to suspect her; they would have no wish to cause unnecessary vexation.

6883. Is the certificate intended, in your view, to operate as a security against further trouble?—I think there are two motives for the certificate; one is, that there may be no concealment as to the ship which may have committed any wrong in the exercise of the right of search upon her; and secondly, to act as a sort of certificate with regard to others that may fall in with her; but if others have reason still to doubt her, in spite of that certificate, they are perfectly at liberty to search her again.

6884. Did you hear what became of the Echo afterwards?—I did not hear of her detention at Sierra Leone until the end of March, I think the 28th of March; I visited Sierra Leone a few days after I had boarded her, but before her arrival.

6885. Did you not hear that she was condemned?—I heard that she was condemned.

6886. Upon what ground?—My knowledge upon the subject is merely hearsay; all that I know is, that an officer of the Wanderer was at Sierra Leone, and I mention it in order to show that Sir John Jeremie was not moved by interested motives in seizing her, he was anxious that this officer should seize her as a prize to the Wanderer.

6887. Has the Governor any interest in seizures?—He has a proportion of the proceeds.

6888. Mr. Forster.] And he would be entitled to a proportion of the proceeds of the Echo when condemned at Sierra Leone?—Yes.

6889. Mr. Milnes.] Did you ever fall in with any other Hamburgh vessel engaged in abetting the slave trade?—I fell in once with the Argus, at the Gallinas, when she was landing casks. I considered that a suspicious circumstance, although one not warranting seizure. I never met with any other.

6890. Have you ever heard that eight or any other number of Hamburgh vessels had proceeded from Hamburgh for the purpose of abetting the slave trade, or being engaged in it?—I think decidedly not.

6891. Mr. Forster.] If the Echo had been an English vessel, would you have seized her under the circumstances in which you found the Echo?—Undoubtedly, under the circumstances of the trade which she was carrying on.

6892. Mr. Milnes.] Do you mean after the first or after the second search?—The search told nothing. It was the fact of her carrying goods from one slave dealer to another, with a Spanish supercargo on board, that would have proved to me that she was aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6893. Would you have seized her upon the knowledge of that fact alone?—Undoubtedly, if she had been an English vessel.

6894. Chairman.] But being a foreign vessel, you did not think that ground sufficient to act upon?—Being a foreign vessel, I could not apply the English laws to her case. I could only apply the treaty to her case, and I held that according to the treaty only equipment would warrant a seizure, or slaves.

6895. Mr. Milnes.] Would you have had a right to seize that ship under those circumstances simply from the fact of her having a foreign supercargo?—Not upon that fact, but upon the fact of her carrying goods from one slave dealer to another slave dealer to buy slaves with.

6896. How do you know that it was to buy slaves with?—From the fact of their being both engaged in the slave trade.

6897. Was Mr. Canôt at that time avowedly engaged in the slave trade?—Mr. Canôt had, a very few days before the arrival of the Echo, given up all his slaves and abandoned the slave trade. It was a mere accidental circumstance their finding that Mr. Canôt was not then carrying on the slave trade.

6898. Chairman.] They were consigned to him under the expectation that he was a slave dealer?—At the time the consignment took place he was a slave dealer, and no one at that time could have contemplated so sudden a change on his part.

6899. Mr. Milnes.] But at the time the Echo was there, Mr. Canôt was not engaged in the slave trade, and was under British protection?—Mr. Canôt had, a few days before, given up his slaves and abandoned the slave trade.

6900. But the parties who chartered the Echo could not have been aware of that fact?—They could not possibly have been aware of that fact.

6901. Sir T. D. Acland.] Mr. Canôt was known to be concerned in the slave trade at the time the consignment was made?—Perfectly.

6902. Mr. Forster.] You do not think that Mr. Canôt in abandoning the slave trade, was at all influenced by the prospective arrival of this vessel, with a view to possessing himself of the cargo?—I do not see how he could have been influenced by that; because, under the circumstances, I could not have seized her, whether he had been carrying on the slave trade or not. On the other hand, although he had turned from the slave trade, yet, had I found any equipment upon her, I should have seized her. It made no difference whatever.

6903. Did he immediately avail himself of the services of the British squadron to remove the goods from New Cestos, the place to which they were consigned, to Monrovia?—It would be necessary to explain what had taken place at New Cestos with reference to Mr. Canôt, to understand what took place with respect to those goods. Mr. Canôt, on the 8th of December, voluntarily delivered his slaves to Lieutenant Seagram, commanding H. M. S. Termagant, stationed by me to blockade the place. Lieutenant Seagram then sailed, to land those slaves at Sierra Leone, carrying with him reports upon the subject for my information. I met at New Cestos his boats, and not having received any information from him, but only from the officer in charge of the boats, verbally, I left an order for him to the following effect: that if he was persuaded of Mr. Canôt’s integrity of purpose, and provided the slave trade was at an end, he was to afford him convenience and protection, and to assist him in establishing a factory for Redman & Co. at Cape Mount. After my departure, the goods consigned to Mr. Canôt were, I believe, landed at his factory, the supercargo being on board, and ready to object if there was any thing improper about it; and they were subsequently, according to the orders I had left, protected by Lieutenant Seagram, when embarked from the beach, the natives showing every disposition to resist the departure of Mr. Canôt.

6904. Mr. Milnes.] Did you hear any thing at Sierra Leone about a buoy, in which the papers of the Echo were said to have been concealed?—I saw a buoy at the registrar’s office, at the Vice-Admiralty Court, which was hollowed out with a scuttle, and I was told that the papers had been concealed in this buoy. I should state, that on searching the Echo, there was no search for papers, because papers under the treaty with Hamburgh would not have been sufficient to condemn her. Equipments were what I searched for.

6905. Would any papers that you could have found have been sufficient to condemn her under the treaty with Hamburgh?—Had I found papers distinctly proving that she was intended to take slaves, I should have taken upon myself the responsibility of sending her to Hamburgh for trial, according to the treaty; because, although not according to the letter of the treaty, I believe the spirit of the Hamburgh treaty is entirely true and just, and I believe it would have been enforced.

6906. Would any papers found upon her in British waters cause her to be condemned, which would not cause her to be condemned if found in other waters?—Papers found upon her in British waters, proving her to be engaged in the slave trade, might certainly condemn her under our laws, as coming under our jurisdiction.

6907. Mr. Forster.] Did the registrar inform you that the hollow place in the buoy was intended to conceal papers, or that papers were found concealed in it?—He told me that papers had been concealed in it. He did not say that they had been found there, but that it had been used for that purpose.

6908. Did he say that papers of that nature had been found in it at Sierra Leone?—No, I think not.

6909. Mr. Milnes.] Have you known many instances of the crews of men-of-war boats remaining on board during a search of that kind, and conducting themselves improperly, taking articles out of the cargo for their own use?—Extremely rarely. In this instance I am aware that some of my ship’s company misbehaved themselves; but they, well knowing the punishment that awaited them, managed to desert.

6910. Did you order the return of the goods which they had taken?—There were no goods taken; I believe there was a bottle or two of champagne drunk.

6911. Did you order the men for punishment?—The men escaped; the master did not bring them back with him. They both died shortly afterwards, or rather one died and the other one was very badly wounded in the Termagant’s boats, and never returned to the Wanderer.

6912. Is it not very difficult to prevent the men from committing those abuses?—I think not when the officers are strictly vigilant; but upon this occasion Mr. Elliott had been induced to go on shore by some representations of Mr. Canôt, who wished to prove to him that his intentions were honest and upright as regarded his abandonment of the slave trade; and that accounted for it.

6913. Were the men left by themselves?—No, they were not; there were the officers of the Termagant employed also, in whose charge they were left.

6914. Mr. Forster.] What means do you suppose the master of the Echo would have at the Havannah of knowing the character and pursuits of Mr. Canôt, to whom he was consigned upon the charter-party?—If he had made the smallest inquiry, he could not have been in doubt for a moment.

6915. Where should he have made inquiry?—In the Havannah; Mr. Canôt was as well known in the Havannah as Pedro Blanco himself.

6916. Is it the duty of a merchant captain in search of trade at a foreign port to make inquiries as to the character and pursuits of his consignee in another country?—Applying it to an English captain, I should say that he was just as much bound to ascertain that he was not engaged in the slave trade as an apothecary, when he sells arsenic, is bound, as far as in him lies, to ascertain that it is not intended to poison any body.

6917. Mr. Milnes.] Is it common for a ship to be condemned, and for the captain at the same time to be declared not guilty of aiding and abetting in the slave trade?—It occurs frequently, upon the very principle of the difficulty of proof of the individual being wilfully and knowingly engaged in the slave trade.

6918. Is it supposed that a vessel can be engaged in the slave trade without the cognizance of the captain?—Engaged in the slave trade indirectly, as the Hamburgh ship, the Echo, was, I think is possible; it is very unlikely.

6919. You would say generally, that where the ship was condemned and the captain escaped, it was through some want of legal proof?—Through the want of bringing home the proof of his having actual knowledge of the tendency of the trade in which he was engaged.

6920. Chairman.] Upon whom would the loss fall of the condemnation of the ship?—Upon the owners of the ship.

6921. The owners being in Hamburgh?—The owners being in Hamburgh.

6922. What control would they have over their ship in the Havannah, except through the medium of the captain?—They might have an agent there, who might be ordered to allow her to be taken up for freight to any part of the world, and who might send the goods on board; and the master might not know what part of Africa he was going to till the moment before he loosed sails.

6923. But a guilty knowledge on the part of some party is necessary to the condemnation of the vessel, is it not?—Yes, it is.

6924. In such cases as those, would the articles have nothing on the face of them in the character of equipment, to serve the purposes of the slave trade?—Not necessarily.

6925. Where can the guilty knowledge reside which shall condemn the vessel and the goods consigned, if the captain is supposed not to have possessed it?—The guilty knowledge, in my opinion, might be presumed. It is the duty of owners to take care that their ships are not turned into pirates or into smugglers, and if they are turned into smugglers or pirates, they must take the consequences; and so if they break other laws I conceive.

6926. Mr. Milnes.] Do you know other instances of ships being condemned, and the captains acquitted?—Yes; the Augusta, captured by Captain Hill, was a case of that description.

6927. Mr. Forster.] Is it not equally an offence on the part of the captain?—Undoubtedly so, if a guilty knowledge can be proved against him.

6928. You cannot prove a guilty knowledge in the case of the ship?—I think you may be able to show that the persons owning the ship or acting as agent for the owners may have had a guilty knowledge, where the master had no guilty knowledge.

6929. Mr. Milnes.] But you cannot legally sell the property of the captain when the captain himself is declared to be not guilty?—If the vessel was declared guilty by a proper court, undoubtedly that is a consequence of the condemnation.

6930. Would the individual property of the captain himself be included in the condemnation?—I believe the doctrine always has been, that the whole property on board the ship is vitiated by her being engaged in the slave trade. But these questions are all questions as to the construction of the Act of Parliament of the 5th of George the 4th, which I do not feel competent to interpret in this manner, although I see my way clearly enough to act upon it.

6931. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider that the mere conveyance as a common carrier of goods from the Havannah to the coast of Africa, is an act of slave dealing?—Not the common carrying of goods: but if she is carrying goods from Pedro Blanco to Mr. Canôt, I do not call that a common act of carrying. It is the act of carrying goods for a specific purpose between two persons engaged in a criminal trade.

6932. Mr. Milnes.] Could not Pedro Blanco and Mr. Canôt have mercantile communications which should be of an indisputably legal character?—They might, but they indisputably have no such commerce except in the smallest degree possible. There was some little palm-oil trade carried on by Mr. Canôt. I believe Mr. Canôt’s evidence was not taken upon the question, but Mr. Canot made no secret of the purposes to which that cargo would have been applied by him.

6933. Mr. Forster.] Supposing arsenic to be conveyed from London to Manchester, and there made an illegal use of, would you consider the carrier responsible in that case?—No, but I think that supposed case applies to the carriage of goods from England to the Havannah, and not from the Havannah to a slave factory in Africa. If you suppose the case of the person at the place to which the arsenic was sent, and the person who sends it, both being employed in poisoning people, I should think in that case the carrier would be culpable, supposing him to be aware of the fact.

6934. Do you consider it illegal for an English vessel to convey a cargo of merchandise from the Havannah to a person engaged in the slave trade on the coast of Africa?—Supposing they are sent by a person engaged in the slave trade.

6935. Do you consider it illegal for an English vessel to convey a cargo of goods to a notorious slave dealer at the Havannah?—No, I do not.

6936. On what ground do you draw the distinction between the two cases?—I think the one is more directly aiding and abetting the slave trade than the other; the other is in a much more remote degree. I have before stated that I thought it was morally wrong.

6937. Mr. Milnes.] Do you recollect whether the fitting up of the vessel was such that it could have taken back a cargo of slaves, supposing Mr. Canôt had still been concerned in the slave trade?—She would only have had to get a few casks and a few planks, and she might have taken back 700 or 800 slaves with the greatest ease Any vessel can be fitted up as a slaver.

6938. Then your impression is that that vessel arrived there expecting to find Mr. Canôt engaged in the slave trade, and was disappointed at finding that he had abandoned it?—Undoubtedly, they still supposed him to be engaged in the slave trade; but how far the disappointment went I cannot say. The goods were landed to him still, although there was a supercargo on board, which is a strong reason to suppose that Mr. Canôt was not robbing his employers, as was suggested.

6939. Mr. Forster.] Was it not the fact, that it was not till after they had been landed that the goods were removed to Cape Mount?—But they had been promised to be removed before. The promise was given that his goods should be removed to Cape Mount, under the protection of the British flag, because it was well understood that the natives would resist the removal of Mr. Canôt; they wanted to have a slave dealer.

6940. What back cargo could the Echo have taken from Mr. Canôt, except slaves?—She could have taken nothing approaching to a cargo; there were a few casks of palm oil, but wholly insufficient for the cargo of such a vessel.

6941. Chairman.] Could she not have taken money?—She could have taken money or bills, but nothing in the shape of cargo.

6942. Is not the greater part of the slave trade on the coast of Africa carried on upon the principle of one vessel bringing a cargo and taking back money, and another vessel being employed to take away slaves?—It is. In most of those cases, the principal slave dealer is resident at the Havannah; and in all cases almost the freight of the former is paid for in the Havannah. There is no money or goods taken out in the vessel intended to carry back slaves.

6943. There is nothing, in the course of the slave trade on the coast of Africa, which leads you to imagine that a vessel which carries goods to the coast must necessarily intend to carry slaves back?—No; there is only one instance which I know, when I was upon the coast during the last two years, of such an attempt. With respect to Mr. Canôt, there is one fact with regard to his conduct which is highly in his favour. Some time after the slaves were delivered up, the natives got some goods from him, and tried to endeavour to induce him to resume the slave trade. They went and bought 50 slaves with those goods. He gave information on the subject, and through him the slaves were delivered up to Lieutenant Seagram. Throughout his whole conduct I have the strongest reason to suppose that he is most perfectly honest in his intention of abandoning the slave trade. He has always given me the fullest information with regard also to the resumption of the slave trade at New Cestos.

6944. Chairman.] You had a good deal of intercourse with Mr. Canôt?—A good deal. I used to receive communications from him, giving me information with respect to the slave trade.

6945. What appears to have been the moving cause to induce him to abandon the slave trade?—I have reason to believe that he had for some time contemplated it; but the immediate cause was, that under the blockade he found that he could not follow out the commerce; that he could not get the slaves away.

6946. Mr. Forster.] Was the captain cognizant of Mr. Canôt having abandoned the slave trade previously to the landing of the cargo?—He states it himself in his complaint. He states that it was so; that he saw the English flag flying.

6947. Do not you consider that strong proof, that the captain of the Echo was no party to the slave trading transactions going on between the shipper and the consignee?—I can only suppose that the property was Mr. Canôt’s, and that he as an honest man felt himself bound to give it to him. Had it been Pedro Blanco’s own property, sent by him for Mr. Canôt to buy slaves with, I think the property would not have been allowed to be landed.

6948. If the captain had been in the secret as to the transactions between the house at the Havannah and Mr. Canôt, the captain, to protect the house in the Havannah, finding that Mr. Canôt had abandoned the slave trade, would not have delivered the goods?—He was paid for his freight. I suppose he did not care what became of the goods. Had he not landed the goods, he would have had to carry them back; he would have been unable to take freight back.

6949. Mr. Milnes.] Was none of the freight landed?—I believe all that was consigned to Mr. Canôt was landed after I sailed.

6950. How would Mr. Canôt have paid for it?—I have no idea how it was paid for. There are three theories to choose amongst; one is, that he robbed his employer’s goods without any set-off; another is, that his employers owed him something equivalent at least to the value of the goods; and the third is, that they were his own property. I refused to enter into the subject with him at all; I had nothing to do with his slave transactions; had it been amenable to seizure I should have seized it.

6951. Captain Fitzroy.] Does the slave trade increase or decrease, at the time of the senior officer on the station being changed?—It has generally been observed in the printed correspondence of the commissioners, and also from the observations of the officers on the coast, that the senior officers not having a practical knowledge of the coast, upon their first arrival there the cruizing is much less efficient for a certain time. It requires a long time for an officer to understand the duties of the coast.

6952. You have understood that frequently changing the officers is injurious to the suppression of the slave trade?—Such is my opinion; I think that three years is the proper time for an officer to be employed there. I think the service would suffer if they were removed more frequently.

6953. How long, speaking generally, does it take for an officer to acquire a tolerably competent knowledge of the duties on that coast?—Several months, certainly.

6954. Are the cruizers now obliged to leave their stations frequently, to get provisions?—They are obliged to leave their stations generally once in three or four months for that purpose, and during that period, of course, the slavers frequently escape. The period is longer or shorter, according to the distance of the depôts.

6955. Do not the slave traders generally obtain accurate information of the periods at which the cruizers will probably be absent?—They frequently do so by reasoning, and by observing the time at which the cruizers have received their supplies.

6956. Does the present state of the Bounty Acts afford due encouragement to exertions for the prevention of the slave trade, or might an alteration be made which would do more justice to those who are affected by those Acts?—In my opinion the present system of bounties is upon an extremely bad footing. It affords a great premium upon the capture of full vessels over empty vessels; whereas I believe the slave trade is to be stopped by the prevention of embarkation.

6957. How could the Act be altered, in your opinion, so as to make less difference between full vessels and empty vessels?—My opinion is, that there should be no difference whatever between them; that they should be paid upon the tonnage a bounty, calculated upon the average between the profit of a full vessel and an empty vessel of the same tonnage; that there should be no more head-money whatever; that the proceeds should not go to the captors; that the proceeds should go to the Government; that the reward of the captors should be only upon the tonnage.

6958. Abolishing head-money altogether?—Abolishing head-money altogether.

6959. Chairman.] Do you conceive that Sierra Leone is well situated as a place for adjudication, under the present circumstances of the slave trade?—I think that it is the best place, under the present circumstances of the slave trade.

6960. Captain Fitzroy.] Can you suggest any improvement in the rigging of the ships employed on the coast, or in the boats with which they are furnished?—The cruizers employed upon the coast have the same masts and sails precisely in them as they would have in the North Sea, their duties lying altogether in the Tropics. In my opinion, with the same masts, a large increase of canvass, by making the sails squarer, would be of the utmost advantage.

6961. Are the boats now used the best adapted for that particular service?—I think every vessel, capable of carrying them, ought to carry two long six-oared galleys at her quarters, and that those that carry boats amidship should have as large boats as they can stow, and that they should be built so lightly as to be able to keep pace with the galleys. A much larger proportion have been captured by boats than by cruizing.

Lunæ, 27º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. W. Hamilton.
Mr. Milnes.

Viscount Sandon in the chair.

Captain the Honourable Joseph Denman, R. N., called in; and further examined.

6962. Chairman.] Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the Kroo Coast; first as to the extent of the Kroo Coast?—The Kroo Coast, I conceive, begins at the river Cestros, the place known as St. George’s, where Mr. Spence had established a factory several years ago, which has been recently abandoned. The Kroomen occupy only five towns upon the coast at different places between the river Cestros and the Grand Cestros; to the northward of that the Bassa people lie intermixed with the Fishmen, and, occupying all the coast to the southward of the Grand Cestros, are the Fishmen, a different people from the Kroomen; they are often confounded with them, but there is a broad distinction between them. Intermixed with the five Kroo towns are many Fish places. The Kroomen occupy the interior of the country more than the Fishmen; the Fishmen are entirely upon the coast. Below Grand Cestros they are all Fish towns. The Fish people are much more numerous than the Kroomen. At a place called by the Fishmen Saucy Town, the natives from the interior fought their way down to the beach.

6963. What were they?—We have no means of knowing; they are quite different from any other races that we know of; at this the Fishmen are exceedingly angry, as they consider that they have a title to all the trade upon the coast. They have prohibited all trade with this place, and have committed many outrages against British vessels and others who have traded there in spite of their prohibition. The Fishmen are perfect pests to the trade upon the coast; they require keeping in order very much.

6964. Are they principally Kroomen or Fishmen who enter on board Her Majesty’s ships?—More Fishmen than Kroomen; we cannot employ them together.

6965. Is it the same with reference to mercantile vessels?—I am not aware, but I think the Fishmen are generally preferred, as they are more at home with boats and more accustomed to live on the water than the Kroomen.

6966. Do you call those principally Kroomen or Fishmen that live at Sierra Leone?—Both classes exist there, but I am not aware in what proportions; the Kroomen are preferred for domestic purposes; they are much more capable of attachment to white people.

6967. Have you any idea what the population is, whether of Fishmen or of Kroomen?—The population of the coast of Fishmen is much greater than that of Kroomen, but I always understood that the Kroomen ran a long way into the interior, and were an agricultural race; indeed if it was not so, I do not see how they could possibly exist against the hostility of the Fishmen, as their numbers on the sea-coast are very inferior; they are almost always at war.

6968. Are both Fishmen and Kroomen exempt from becoming slaves?—They are exempt from becoming slaves; at the only slave factories upon the coast, between Sierra Leone and Cape Palmas, Gallinas, and New Cestos, the work was entirely carried on by Fishmen, but they have a great objection to being slaves themselves; they are in the habit of sacrificing their enemies taken in war to the Fetish tree.

6969. Are you speaking of Fishmen or of Kroomen now?—Both; I have had opportunities of knowing that that is the fact.

6970. Do those parties bring slaves from distant parts in the interior, or is it upon neighbouring tribes that they make inroads in order to procure slaves?—I do not think the Fishmen or Kroomen are in the habit of collecting slaves at all; but they are very willing to lend themselves out to slave factories, to assist them in carrying on the traffic in every way.

6971. And to allow their territory to be made a place of embarkation for slaves?—I believe not; indeed there is no embarkation of slaves in their territory; nor nearer than Young Cestos.

6972. Sir T. D. Acland.] Their willingness to hire themselves out to slavers is merely as a means of active employment?—Exactly so.

6973. Not from any preference to that employment?—They prefer it, I believe, because they are better paid for that than any thing else.

6974. Chairman.] Have you had any opportunity of knowing the domestic condition of the Kroomen or the Fishmen; whether they are under the obligations of slavery to any parties?—No, there is no slavery in the Kroo or Fish country, although the system of every headman having his boys under him approaches something to it. The headman receives all the wages of all the boys under him; whether that is from family connexion, or from political institution, I do not know, but the headman receives all the pay of all the boys. A headman on board a man-of-war, for instance, will have 20 men under him, and he receives the whole of their wages.

6975. Do you always take on board a headman, for every number of Kroomen or Fishmen that you engage?—It is absolutely necessary to have a headman to keep them in order; he generally chooses all the people, we leave it to him to choose them. If Fishmen and Kroomen happen to be mixed up in the same party there are always quarrels and disturbances, indeed there is no getting on with them, so strong is the antipathy.

6976. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you think, from what you know of those people, that they would be disposed to engage themselves as labourers in the West Indies, if proper means were taken to acquaint them with the nature of the service?—If proper means were taken, I have not the least doubt they might get thousands of them; the thing necessary is to produce confidence in their minds, and that would best be done by some man-of-war upon the coast taking over some of the headmen, upon a promise that they should be returned by the same ship.

6977. Chairman.] You believe that they have confidence in a man-of-war?—I believe they have the greatest confidence in a man-of-war, and also in the English people; but they might fancy that abuses might take place, and that they might be made slaves of, unless they had the evidence of some of their own people.

6978. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you think it would be possible for a man-of-war to discharge the duty of securing against any possible abuse in their embarkation?—I do not think it would be at all necessary to have a man-of-war for that purpose. I think you might safely leave them to take care of themselves. The only purpose for which a man-of-war need interfere, would be to give them a feeling of confidence in the first instance. They might object to go over in any thing but a man-of-war. I think the first impression is all that a man-of-war would be required for.

6979. Do you think these people might not take others with them against their will?—I think not; I do not think they hold slaves in any way; the mark of the race is so very distinct, that other races could not be mixed with them as emigrants without detection.

6980. Chairman.] You think that the connexion between the chiefs and those companies of boys is rather a voluntary connexion, for the purpose of protection, than one of compulsion?—It is a voluntary connexion, because it exists equally strongly at Sierra Leone as any where else.

6981. Sir T. D. Acland.] Have you any doubt that the commanders of one of Her Majesty’s ships could effectually prevent any embarkation of the natives against their will?—I do not think there would be the smallest necessity for a man-of-war to superintend the coast, except at first.

6982. Supposing no landing were allowed in the West Indies without a certificate of one of Her Majesty’s officers, would it be easy for the officer, before he gave such a certificate, to take effectual security against being imposed upon by the delivery of a person without his full consent?—It would be very easy to ascertain the fact; but the Kroo and Fish race are so distinct from all others, that I do not think there is the smallest apprehension of its taking the form of slavery.

6983. You mean so far as regards any embarkation from that part of the coast?—Yes, in British ships.

6984. Would it be equally safe on other parts of the coast?—It would be impossible in other parts, without perpetuating the slave trade, in my opinion.

6985. Chairman.] What would be the difference between the two cases?—There are no other races upon the coast who leave their country voluntarily to labour. The only way in which it could possibly be expected that the natives would be obtained from any other part of the coast would be upon compulsion and upon sale, upon positive sale and nominal manumission afterwards, before embarkation; but that would hold out the same inducements to internal slave trade in Africa as the slave trade to Brazils or Cuba.

6986. Sir T. D. Acland.] You think it would be impossible to guard against fraud in that case?—It would be impossible to establish such a plan without perpetuating the slave trade.

6987. Chairman.] On the Fish Coast, and on the Kroo Coast, you would not apprehend that the advantage given by any little presents to the chiefs on the departure of any of their people for the West Indies, might induce them to bring negroes from other parts of the country for the purpose of emigration?—I think negroes from other parts of the country would be immediately distinguished from the Kroomen.

6988. The security, then, you think would consist in the external marks of the Kroo and Fish people?—Yes. Moreover, the Kroomen and the Fishmen, on landing in the West Indies, would be always able to tell their own story; to speak English enough to make their case known.

6989. You do not mean that the Kroomen living inland speak English?—I suppose not; but all that I have ever seen have managed to make themselves understood; indeed I think it is possible they might have some idea of the English language inland, it is so universal amongst all that I have seen. It would be very easy to follow the plan supposed, to have a man-of-war stationed in that quarter, and known to be at a certain place; it would be very easy to require every emigrant ship to visit her, and receive a certificate from the captain before she sailed for the West Indies.

6990. Would you feel any difficulty in ascertaining certainly, against possibility of fraud, that those people were bonâ fide volunteers?—There would not be the smallest difficulty.

6991. Chairman.] You would call up the men and be able to ask them, either directly in English, or through interpreters, the circumstances under which they embarked?—Yes.

6992. And ascertain their knowledge of the object of the embarkation?—Yes; nothing would be more easy or more certain.

6993. Sir T. D. Acland.] Supposing any man embarked were to say that he did not wish to go, what would you do with him?—He must give his presents back that he has received and go back himself.

6994. If he had been sent on board by compulsion, would he not run some risk on his landing?—I think it altogether repugnant to the customs of the country to force people on board; I do not think it is a thing at all to be apprehended.

6995. Mr. Aldam.] You think there would be no more difficulty in emigration from the Kroo Coast to the West Indies than in emigration from England to Canada?—There would be scarcely more difficulty; I should feel quite confident, that with the commonest care upon the part of the Governments in the West India islands, such a thing could not be abused.

6996. You think the one is as liable to abuse as the other?—Yes: I think the emigration from the coast of Africa would require a little more looking after.

6997. But the captain of a man-of-war might perform every duty that the emigration agent now performs in an English port?—Yes; I think a man-of-war stationed in the neighbourhood might do so.

6998. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you think the Kroomen would be willing to leave their families?—I think they would be perfectly willing to remove without their families; you could not get them to take their families.

6999. For what length of time?—For three or four years; they have the greatest objection to remove their women; indeed it is impossible for any race to be more obstinately attached to their own habits and prejudices than the Kroo and the Fish races.

7000. Therefore their engagement would be of a temporary nature?—There is scarcely such a thing known as a Krooman to be absent from his country more than seven years.

7001. Mr. Aldam.] Would their absence in the West Indies, and the habits they would be likely to acquire there, tend to improve the manners of the people at home, upon their return?—I think it would have that effect to some small extent.

7002. And to introduce civilization?—To a very small extent; I do not think that much could be expected without other means.

7003. Sir T. D. Acland.] Have they any means of education?—None whatever.

7004. Chairman.] They have no contact with any white men, except some that come for the purpose of trading upon the coast?—And at the settlements of Sierra Leone and Liberia.

7005. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do they take opportunities of acquiring instruction on board ships?—No, I think not, except what they must learn to do their duties.

7006. Do they show any disposition to learn to read and write?—Not at all.

7007. Do you think that having learned the cultivation of sugar in the West Indies, they would be likely to introduce the same cultivation in their own country?—I think that at present they are not sufficiently enlightened to make it very probable.

7008. Chairman.] Would the effect of considerable emigration from the Kroo Coast be to raise the rate of wages of the Kroomen employed in the navy, and on board merchant ships?—I should think very probably it might have that effect, but the wages now paid on board ships of war are much higher than are paid anywhere else.

7056. Chairman.] Have you considered the subject of the removal of the Mixed Commission Court from Sierra Leone?—I have. I have heard that the places named as preferable are Fernando Po, Accra, and Ascension. The first is a foreign possession, and not to be purchased, therefore utterly out of the question. The second has dangerous anchorage; no harbour or place for breaking up ships, no territory for location, no market for goods, and no community of which liberated Africans could become a part. The third is a desert, the 150 persons now living there being victualled, as at sea, on salt provisions. Since 1839, at the latter end of which we were for the first time enabled really to attack the slave trade, the number of Africans liberated by the Mixed Commission Court has been extremely small; and this diminution may be regarded as a test of success, the grand object being to guard the coast and prevent the embarkation of slaves. In 1840 the number emancipated at Sierra Leone amounted to but 732, and in the first half of 1841 to but 291, and of these not one-sixth died between capture and emancipation. Sierra Leone is far preferable to any other place for the location of liberated Africans, there being already a large and prosperous community, comprising natives of every African race, who receive among them their newly-emancipated countrymen, and regard them with the utmost sympathy, assisting them in every way, and instructing them in the language and customs of the colony. It frequently happens that near relations are again united, and the transports of joy on such occasions well vindicate the African from the charge so often repeated. The marked inferiority of the liberated Africans who have been sent to the Gambia is owing to their small numbers, in a community having no sympathies with them, and from whom they are as much separated as from the white inhabitants; and I would ask whether intercourse with the Fantees of the Gold Coast would civilize or improve them to a greater extent?

7057. What is your opinion as to the advantage of transporting the slaves as soon as they are emancipated, from Sierra Leone to the West Indies?—The treaties embodied in the Act of the 5th of Geo. 4, provide that slaves shall be located in the territory of the nation of the capturing cruizer. This provision is fulfilled, when slaves captured by a British cruizer are emancipated at Sierra Leone. When slaves so captured are emancipated at Havannah, they should be removed to whichever of the British West India islands it is honestly believed they will be best placed for their own welfare and happiness. I utterly deny the right to consult the interests of any other parties whatever in their location. It has been argued that it would be beneficial to Sierra Leone to send negroes after emancipation in the West Indies, and that the Act in question authorises the Government to compel slaves emancipated under its provisions to serve in the Army or Navy, or to send them where it pleases. But to carry this provision out to its full extent would be but to perpetuate their slavery, contrary to the whole spirit of the Act; nor could the forcible removal of these poor creatures from an asylum containing thousands of their countrymen, and possibly many of their near kindred, be rendered justifiable by any consideration whatever. I have seen a cargo of slaves, after the completion of one voyage across the Atlantic, condemned to another for their own supposed benefit; and I can bear witness to the horror of the victims, when they found themselves once more on the “middle passage.”

7058. What circumstance do you allude to?—The vessel which I stated before, that I took from Rio Janeiro to Sierra Leone, a slave ship, with a cargo of slaves which had arrived there, and had been there seized. Further I would say, let the subject be considered with regard to foreign governments. The Dutch government not long ago purchased slaves at Elmina, who, after nominal enfranchisement, were forcibly transported to the island of Java. It is undoubted, that a vessel employed in carrying them would be subject to capture by a British cruizer, and condemnation at Sierra Leone. Had such a case occurred, and the negroes after emancipation been immediately transported to Trinidad, or to Demerara without their own consent, how could such a transaction be vindicated in the eyes of Europe? Voluntary emigration from Sierra Leone may very properly be encouraged by all fair means. The number of emigrants cannot, however, amount to any considerable extent, compared with the wants of the West Indies.

7059. Mr. Forster.] Are you well acquainted with the land in the neighbourhood of Accra?—No; I have not been to Accra. I only know that the British settlement is confined to the walls of the fort.

7060. Are you aware of any difficulty that would arise in acquiring territory in the neighbourhood of Accra?—I believe there would be no difficulty; but it is the fact that we have no territory now.

7061. But if it were deemed advisable to establish the Mixed Commission Court there, are you aware of any difficulty in acquiring territory for the purpose of locating the liberated Africans?—No; I believe that territory might be obtained if it were desirable in other respects. But I believe it is not desirable in other respects.

7062. Captain Fitzroy.] Have any liberated Africans been employed at Ascension; and if so, how have they conducted themselves?—I have a letter from a gentleman who was adjutant in the Island of Ascension, under whom those Africans were employed, Lieutenant Wade. I beg leave to state that in this letter, as regards the first party to which he alludes, from my own knowledge I can say that he has very much understated the difficulty that existed with them. They were very troublesome in every way. He expressed to me verbally, in the strongest terms, the contrast between the people who had not received the benefit of residence at Sierra Leone, and those who had.

[The letter was delivered in, and read as follows:]

Sir, London, 23 June, 1842.

I have the honour to address to you the following facts relative to the liberated Africans employed by Government on the Island of Ascension, and which you may be pleased to lay before the African Committee for their information.

The liberated Africans attached to the establishment are 33 in number, and are relieved every three years if they wish it; they are paid in three classes. The first class receive 6d. and the lowest 4d., according to their merits; they receive a full ration of provisions, but no spirits, except the head man, who is paid and victualled as the marines.

I was three years on the island, the last two as adjutant, and as such these people were more immediately under my control; and therefore I am enabled to speak confidently as to their general conduct.

I found them easily managed, especially the last party which arrived in December 1840, who being residents at Sierra Leone for many years, were most useful and intelligent men; most of them had learned to read and write, and several had been brought up to trades and were industrious; whereas the former party, who were sent direct from the slave-yard (as it is commonly termed), were difficult to instruct, owing to their ignorance of the English language.

Each man is permitted to bring his wife.

I have, &c.

To Captain the Honourable
Joseph Denman, R.N.

(signed) Jno. Wade, Lieut. R.N.

7063. Mr. Forster.] As you appear to consider Sierra Leone as a desirable place for landing and locating the liberated Africans, how do you account for so little progress having hitherto been made in agricultural improvement and in carrying civilization into the interior from that part, up to the present time?—I consider that the liberated Africans of Sierra Leone have made a wonderful advance, comparing them with their condition when landed from the slave ships.

7064. Is it not the fact that no progress has been made in cultivation or in planting in the neighbourhood of Sierra Leone?—No advance has been made because there has been no inducement held out to them; but the people have made wonderful strides, in my opinion, in civilization, and the condition of the liberated Africans is quite extraordinary, comparing them with the state in which they were landed, considering the very short time that has elapsed since the first Africans were liberated there from the slave ships.

7065. Is it not upwards of twenty years that the system has been going on there, and would not that afford ample time for greater improvement than is perceived there at this moment?—Considering the great numbers that during the twenty years have been landed from the slave ships, and their condition, I think the advance is more than could have been expected, considering that no inducement has been held out to agricultural pursuits.

7066. Are you acquainted with the banks of the Gambia and the land in the neighbourhood of our settlement there?—I have been in the Gambia a good deal; I cannot say that I have any perfect knowledge of the banks of the river.

7067. Would you think that the Gambia affords a more desirable location than Sierra Leone for cultivation?—I think, perhaps, for that particular object it may, but I am not at all sure of that.

7068. Chairman.] Sierra Leone furnishes very little exportable produce of its own?—I am not aware that it exports any thing of its own, but the country we are about to purchase affords means of raising produce, if it is encouraged; I mean the Quia country.

7069. You think it desirable that the limits of the colony of Sierra Leone should be extended?—I think undoubtedly, both up the river and coastwise; I consider that the plans of General Turner were in the utmost degree wise and enlightened, and it is very much to be regretted that they were not followed up.

7070. Sir T. D. Acland.] When you say coastwise, do you mean north or south?—I think south to Cape Mount, where a settlement is already established, I would purchase the sovereignty, and establish one or two settlements between Cape Mount and Sierra Leone.

7071. Including the Sherboro’?—Including the Sherboro’; Boom Kittam General Turner already had. With regard to the Gambia I should wish to observe, that to bring forth the resources of that colony a steamer on the river is indispensably necessary, and in my opinion she would pay her own expenses, if she were allowed to carry light goods up and down for the merchants, as a sort of packet.

7072. Chairman.] Would there be any difficulty in manning a steamer almost entirely with blacks, so as to expose very little, if any, white life to the risks attending the navigation of the river?—For the services of colonial steamers, I believe they might be entirely manned with black people, and in the course of a few years, even with black engineers.

7073. Mr. Forster.] Are you aware that the French have two or three steam boats generally on the Senegal?—I am aware that the French have steamers, that they are exercising the utmost rivalry against British commerce upon the coast, and that they derive the greatest possible advantages over British commerce by the use of those steamers.

7074. Chairman.] Is there any thing at present to prevent the establishment of mercantile steamers, either at Sierra Leone or at the Gambia, as a private venture?—As a private venture, certainly not; but it would not be worth the while of any individuals to make the speculation.

7075. Sir T. D. Acland.] Are the French steamers government steamers?—They are government steamers attached to the colony of Senegal.

7076. Chairman.] What sized steamers would be required for the purpose that you contemplate?—I should say very small steamers for the Gambia itself; as small as the London boats that run above bridge; but their services would be required entirely for that river, and perhaps for the Casamanza.

7077. Mr. Forster.] Would not a steamer on the Gambia be very important for the Government communication with Macarthy’s Island, and generally up the river?—It is the only way that settlements up the river can be supported or protected in my opinion; it would have the effect of quadrupling the force there now, and it is the only means by which we can, in my opinion, bring out the resources of the upper parts of the river, which are so great.

7078. Chairman.] Is the force of the current generally so strong as to render it extremely difficult to navigate up the stream with sailing vessels?—It frequently takes a week or 10 days to get a good-sized vessel up to Macarthy’s Island, where now our highest settlement is; but we should have one still higher.

7079. You conceive that there are immense resources up the river?—I do; I believe that a supply of gum might be obtained at the Gambia equal to that which we have been deprived of by the French at Portendique, if proper measures were taken. At Portendique, for the last two years, there has been no trade at all.

7080. Mr. Forster.] In your former evidence, in answer to [question 6674], in reference to the importance of British settlements for the suppression of the slave trade, you say “I spoke more particularly of Sierra Leone, at the same time the connection of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about;” are the Committee to understand that you mean that Sierra Leone and the Gambia are on the same footing in that respect?—I think they have assisted the slave trade in very different ways; one way in which they have both assisted, is by the sale of vessels to the slave dealers; but the trade in the Gambia goes hand in hand with the slave trade of Bissao, as I before stated; at Sierra Leone it has been more directly by the sale of vessels, and some few goods passing down through their hands to the Gallinas and elsewhere.

7081. Will you have the goodness to explain to the Committee your meaning in saying that “the connection of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about”?—I should have said the external trade of the Gambia; the trade up the river is another thing. As regards the external trade of the Gambia, the greater part of the trade is through the hands of notorious slave dealers, who sell produce, and give money to the Gambia merchants, and who in return receive goods from the Gambia; and those goods are the means again of purchasing slaves and produce; that is a connection which I consider is a very direct one.

7082. Chairman.] You do not mean, that merchants trading at the Gambia are themselves personally interested in any slave trade adventures, or have any share in the profit or loss of such transactions?—No; I have no reason to suppose that such is the case directly.

7083. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you mean to say that the goods so furnished to the slave dealer are essential to the maintenance of the slave traffic?—I believe they might get goods elsewhere, if those were not supplied by the Gambia merchants.

7084. But still goods from some part are essential to the maintenance of the slave traffic?—Indispensable; all their slaves are bought with British goods.

7085. Chairman.] Could they not obtain their slaves solely with money?—I think not.

7086. Sir T. D. Acland.] What is the state of civilization of the people upon the Gambia?—The banks of the Gambia have been disturbed for several years by a man of the name of Kemingtang, and a great deal too much forbearance has been used towards him. I do not think the people in general upon the banks are in an advanced state of civilization, by any means.

7087. Its progress has been interrupted by this man’s disturbance?—This man has occasioned mischief, but I do not think it was making progress to any extent.

7088. Mr. Forster.] You appear to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate trade by the mode of payment; that is to say, according to whether the payment is in money or in produce?—I have already said that, strictly speaking, in the strict sense of the term, “legitimate trade,” that is, trade which has no communication with the slave trade in any way whatever, is that in which goods are exchanged for produce.

7089. Would you recommend or expect that a trader on the coast of Africa should refuse dollars in payment of his goods to any body?—In cases where he knew that no use could be made of those goods but to purchase slaves, I think he would be bound to do so; and I think if he did not he should be subjected to the penalties of the Act.

7090. Supposing the British traders of Bissao were to refuse money from the Spaniards, would you recommend that they should refuse money also from the natives in exchange for their goods?—I have stated that I do not recommend that they should refuse money from any body, except in cases where the trade must necessarily be going on to supply the slave trade exclusively. In cases where slave trade and produce trade exist together, I do not think it would be possible, and I do not think it would be desirable to endeavour to prevent the trade from going on; I have stated that fully in the former part of my evidence.

7091. Chairman.] You would, if possible, devise some means by which English trade, although in lawful goods, with settlements purely confined to slave trading, such as the Gallinas, should be prevented?—Precisely; that is my view.

7092. As long as the prize vessels are sold at Sierra Leone, will there not be great practical difficulty in preventing those vessels getting ultimately into the hands of the slave dealers, whether you can prevent it at the first hand or not?—I think the longer the interval that elapsed before they got into the hands of the slave dealers, the better. I think that British subjects selling vessels adapted only for the slave trade into the hands of notorious slave dealers, should be rendered subject to penalties; but I admit the difficulty of preventing the eventual return of such vessels into the hands of slave dealers.

7093. You think it very desirable, if possible, that the system of breaking up vessels should be further extended?—I think it should be applied universally to slave ships.

7094. Is there any English law which you would wish to see amended in that respect?—Under the Act 5 Geo. 4, under which a vessel in British waters would be condemned for carrying on the slave trade, there is no provision for breaking up the vessel; and consequently vessels condemned under that Act are sold to the highest bidder. I certainly think it is desirable that a clause should be inserted in the act for the purpose.

7095. Mr. Forster.] You have stated in your former evidence that the public auctioneer is obliged to knock down the vessel to the highest bidder. Would you recommend that the public auctioneer should be subject to penalties for selling a vessel to the agent of a slave dealer?—I have before stated that he is not subject to penalties; he is a Government agent employed according to law.

7096. Captain Fitzroy.] You have stated that the cruizers should be withdrawn from the western coast of the Atlantic, their efforts against the slave trade there being comparatively ineffectual. Can you give any further reason for that opinion than the one you have expressed?—The cruizers upon the coast of Cuba or Brazil, cruize under much greater disadvantages than they formerly did upon the coast of Africa, before the Equipment articles came into force; and moreover, the immense number of merchant vessels always in sight about those parts of the coast is, I think, another reason against attempting to suppress the slave trade upon that side of the Atlantic. And there is besides another subject of greatly increased importance, the inconvenience that would arise from the exercise of the right of search in that quarter.

7097. Chairman.] You mean to say, that in consequence of coming into contact with a much greater number of vessels of different descriptions, the right of search, if exercised there, would be more obnoxious, and lead to greater difficulties with the countries upon whose vessels we should exercise it?—It could never be fully exercised with regard to the vessels that were there, and the exercise of it would involve 50 searches for one upon the coast of Africa.

7098. In the one case you only have to search the African trade, in the other case you have to search the whole trade of those countries on the American coast?—Yes.

7099. Captain Fitzroy.] You have stated the disproportion between the emolument derived by the captains of cruizers from the capture of slavers after the embarkation of the slaves, compared with that derived from the capture of empty vessels, to be very great, and altogether unjust; can you give the Committee any further information upon this subject?—I have here an account of two vessels, captured under the Equipment articles by me, one measuring 57 tons and the other 43 tons; the aggregate of the proceeds of both these vessels for distribution to the captors was 576l. 6s. 5d. Another vessel of 48 tons was captured by me, with slaves on board; the proceeds for distribution upon this single vessel amounted to 1,654l. 19s. 5d., nearly three times as much as the two empty ships, measuring together 100 tons.

7100. Chairman.] Can you state how many slaves could have been carried by the two empty ships, in case they had been allowed to have been filled?—There might have been 700 slaves in those two ships.

7101. Sir T. D. Acland.] How many were there in the other?—Forty-eight tons and 350 slaves. With regard to the capture of these vessels, the empty vessels were captured upon the principle of blockade, a service of the most harassing, tiresome, and arduous description. The full vessel was, as it must be in most cases, captured by chance.

7102. How would you propose to arrange it?—I would take the whole of the sums payable upon captured vessels during any given year, and upon that I would calculate what it amounted to per ton, and I would give that bounty for the future upon every vessel, as a substitute for the head-money, for the payments now made.

7103. Captain Fitzroy.] You have stated in your former evidence, that, six weeks after you were at New Cestos destroying the slave factory, a slaver was there again; can you offer any explanation of that circumstance?—The slave factory at New Cestos was abandoned in December 1840. The factories were left standing, to form a palm-oil factory, at the request of some British traders. I however understood that the prince was endeavouring to get a slave-dealer to re-establish himself in this factory, and I therefore, in the middle of April, burned down the buildings. On the 8th of June a new factor arrived from the Havannah and landed his goods, but no slaves were taken away till October. Three or four days after the slaves were carried off the blockade was re-established, and there could be no more.

7104. It has been stated, in answer to question 5968, that you thought you had put an effectual stop to the slave trade at the Gallinas by the destruction of the factories; was that your own opinion?—I beg to refer the Committee to the third paragraph from the bottom of a letter in the correspondence relative to the Gallinas, at page 9, in which I state that “I believe they will endeavour still to prosecute the slave trade.”

7105. Mr. Forster.] Is it your opinion that the British traders on the coast of Africa, and those connected with them, are more deeply interested in the suppression of the slave trade than any other class of British subjects?—In general they are; but there are some instances in which particular merchants derive great advantages from the connexion. There can be no question that it is for the interests of commerce that the slave trade should be put down; but there may be particular instances where British merchants derive great profits from their connexion with it.

7106. But generally, you are of opinion that the British merchants are decidedly interested in the trade being put down?—I have no doubt of it at all.

7107. Chairman.] You believe that wherever the trade in slaves is put down, a more profitable trade might be carried on in its place in the form of manufactures in exchange for produce?—Undoubtedly more profitable, both to the natives and to the persons trading with them.

7108. When you speak of individuals being interested, you mean that there are individuals incidentally benefited by the commerce which the slave trade gives rise to in that country?—Precisely; that is what I mean. For instance, supposing the slave traders at the Gallinas had been supplied by a British commercial house, that probably would have been more profitable to them than any prospect of produce trade after the slave trade of the Gallinas was destroyed.

Lunæ, 25º die Julii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Viscount Ebrington.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Sir R. H. Inglis.
Mr. Wilson Patten.
Mr. G. W. Wood.

Viscount Sandon in the chair.

Captain the Honourable Joseph Denman, R. N. called in; and further examined.

10646. Chairman.] What evidence had you of those parties being British subjects whom you brought back to Sierra Leone?—I found them in the barracoons mixed with other slaves for exportation; I took them to Sierra Leone; they were examined, both speaking English, by the Governor of Sierra Leone in my presence; the opinion of the Governor of Sierra Leone was, that it was most undoubtedly the fact that they were British subjects; one was a liberated African and the other a Creole, born in Sierra Leone.

10647. Mr. Forster.] Do you consider them, under those circumstances, as fairly and properly entitled to the appellation of British subjects?—As completely as any person in this room.

10648. Was the circumstance of your finding them at the Gallinas the ground upon which you took your proceedings there and burnt the place?—It was the principal ground of those proceedings; the grounds have been already stated in my former evidence; I think that was the most important ground.

EVIDENCE OF PEDRO DE ZULUETA, JUN., ESQ.
TAKEN BEFORE
THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Veneris, 22º die Junii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Captain Fitzroy.
Mr. Foster.
Mr. W. Hamilton.

Sir R. H. Inglis.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. Wilson Patten.
Lord Stanley.
Mr. G. W. Wood.

Viscount Sandon, in the chair.

Pedro de Zulueta, Jun. Esq. called in; and examined.

10370. Chairman.] You have seen some statements that have been made to this Committee upon the subject of a transaction in which your house was engaged; have you any observations to offer upon it?—I received from the Clerk of the Committee a letter accompanying a copy of certain evidences, which are Mr. Macaulay’s evidence of the 10th of June, the 14th of June, and the 15th of June; and Captain Hill’s evidence of the 29th of June, the 4th of July, and the 6th of July. I would beg, first of all, to refer to the letter which I had the honour to address to the Chairman. My reason for wishing to be examined before this Committee was, that the statements contained in the evidence which I have mentioned are all of them more or less incorrect, some of them totally so. I will begin by stating what has been the nature of our, I will not say trade, for we have not had a trade ourselves, but of our connexion with the shipment of goods to the coast of Africa. We have been established as merchants for upwards of 70 years in Spain, for nearly 20 years in this country, and we have had connexions to a large extent in Spain, and in the Havannah, and in South America, and several other places; among them we have had connexions or commercial intercourse with the house of Pedro Martinez & Co. of the Havannah, and with Blanco & Cavallo of Havannah. With them we have carried on a regular business in consignments of sugars and of cochineal, which they have made to us; and in specie received by the packets from Mexico and other places. We have several times acted for them here in this country, buying raw cotton for instance at Liverpool, and re-selling it very largely; that has been principally with Pedro Martinez & Co.

10371. They are general merchants?—They are general merchants, and their transactions with us have been of that nature. As general merchants we have bought stock here for them rather largely; and in the course of those transactions we have received orders from Don Pedro Martinez & Co. of the Havannah, and from Don Pedro Martinez of Cadiz, to ship goods for the coast of Africa; never from Pedro Blanco, and never from Blanco & Cavallo.

10372. Have you received orders from Pedro Martinez for shipments for the coast of Africa?—Yes; in the course of business we have received orders to ship goods upon the funds in our hands belonging to them; and we have shipped the goods described in the letter, and sent the bills of lading to Pedro Martinez; but beyond that we have never had any returns from the coast of Africa, nor any control of any kind from the moment the cargoes left the ports of this country.

10373. You have had no interest in the result of the venture?—No, nor any notice, nor any acquaintance, nor any correspondence with any one upon the coast; we have never had any kind of knowledge, either subsequently or previously, of the shipments, except the mere fact of buying the goods and shipping them.

10374. Your whole interest was a commission upon the transaction—Entirely. The extent of those transactions has been so limited in the course of nearly 20 years that we have been in this country, that the amount of the invoices that we have sent out has been something like 20,000l. or 22,000l. in the course of all that time. That is one part of the operations we have performed. The other operations are the acceptance of bills drawn by people on the coast; among them Pedro Blanco when he was there, upon ourselves, on account of Blanco & Cavallo, of Havannah, upon funds which Blanco & Cavallo had in our hands: for instance, the people at the Havannah, or in Spain, open a credit with us, and we accept the bills of the parties on that credit with us, just the same as we should do with any other correspondent in any other part.

10375. You would have funds in your hands, arising from some commercial transactions between you and the Havannah merchant or the Cadiz merchant; and Pedro Blanco, upon the coast of Africa, would draw upon the credit of those funds, being authorised by the Cadiz or the Havannah merchant?—Yes; and if Pedro Blanco had drawn 5s. beyond that, we should have protested, and in some instances we have protested. With regard to the vessel alluded to in this Report, the Augusta, our part in that concern has been simply that which appears from one of the letters: that is to say, Pedro Martinez, of Cadiz, had made choice of Jennings to buy the vessel, and lent him money to buy the vessel; because Pedro Martinez wanted him to have a vessel in the trade, for the purpose of taking his goods to their destination. I have now described the three kinds of operations in which we have been concerned, and our knowledge of all of them terminated with the execution of the orders of our correspondents. We had nothing more to do than to follow the orders of the purchaser in shipping the goods. With regard to the purchase of the vessel by Jennings; Jennings is a man who has been employed some time by Martinez; he has served Martinez as a chartered captain, and Martinez having been satisfied with his services, agreed to lend him that money on the security of the vessel, provided it did not exceed a certain amount; which was all the interference we had with it, just to see that a certain amount was not exceeded, 500l. or whatever it was.

10376. Then you were to furnish Captain Jennings with money for the purchase within a limited amount, say 500l., credit being given to him upon you by Pedro Martinez, of Cadiz?—That is just the point.

10377. Captain Fitzroy.] The Augusta being purchased by money advanced by your house for Martinez & Company of Cadiz; and she then became the property of Pedro Martinez?—No, she became the property of Jennings; the money was lent to Jennings, and he bound himself by giving security on the vessel to answer for the amount. It is a mercantile operation which is not unusual.

10378. Mr. Forster.] You advanced the money to Captain Jennings for the purchase of the vessel, Jennings transferring the vessel to you as a security for the amount so advanced?—That is just the description of operation, which is a very general one in business.

10379. Chairman.] What is the object of such an operation?—I know very little or almost next to nothing of the operations in those parts of the world; but the object of such an operation I apprehend to be this: a vessel chartered with a stranger must be governed by the different clauses of the charter-party; the charterer must be limited to time and to places; and by Martinez having the vessel owned by a man with whom he could have a better understanding than with others, he might always send more advantageously articles from the Havannah to the Gallinas, and from here to the Gallinas. When I say articles, I mean legal articles.

10379*. What advantage would there be in Mr. Jennings taking the articles rather as the owner than as captain under Martinez; was not he commander of the vessel as well as owner of the vessel?—Yes.

10380. He is made the owner, instead of being captain?—He is the owner as well as the captain of the vessel; he stands indebted to Martinez, and gives a bottomry bond for the vessel.

10380*. Does Mr. Jennings upon this transaction make all the freight to his own profit?—Certainly, whatever he does is to his own profit.

10381. He is not, then, an agent for Martinez?—No, he is a person to whom Martinez lends the money to buy the vessel; whatever profit he derives is his own. Martinez has this advantage, which to a mercantile man is very perceptible, that he has got a charter with a man who stands in that relation towards him which gives him a sort of control over the vessel. If I as a stranger charter a vessel for Martinez, and he has spent one, two, or five days more in landing goods than the charter-party allows, I should make a claim for it; I should say, “You must keep to the charter.” Now, when Jennings is indebted to him for the favour of a loan for the vessel, he is not upon a similar footing.

10382. So that he gets the vessel more under his own control?—Yes; in saying this I am putting an hypothetical case, but I do not know the mind of Martinez himself.

10383. Mr. Forster.] You acted in this transaction merely as agent in the usual manner, as you would have acted for any house in any part of the world?—Exactly; if Martinez had told me, “You have got 500l. in your hands, pay that to Captain Jennings,” I should have known nothing more of the transaction; I should have paid the money. But Martinez did not wish to go beyond a certain amount; and he says, “You exercise control, do not allow the man to pay more than 500l. for the vessel.”

10384. But beyond the purchase of the vessel and the shipment of the goods, the other arrangements and the subsequent transactions were entirely between Jennings and Martinez & Co.?—Most assuredly; except with the order of Martinez, I do not know how we could have done any thing with him in any way.

10385. Captain Fitzroy.] Though the process of hypothecating a vessel may be usual between British merchants, is it usual to cover a transaction of Spanish slave trade with the British flag, by means of such an arrangement as that described to have taken place in the case of the Augusta?—In order to answer that question, it seems to me that it is fair that I should ask where is the transaction of covering, and where is the slave trade transaction? I know positively of my own knowledge, that there is no such thing at all connected with the Augusta. If I had an opportunity, I could make my affidavit of that.

10386. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you mean that you know that the Augusta was not engaged in any slaving transactions during the voyage upon which she left Liverpool?—Most assuredly not; in fact my testimony is hardly required of that, because every thing proves that. When she was detained, it was never said that she was upon a slaving operation at all. Before she left this port, after she was bought, she was completely rendered useless for that purpose.

10387. Chairman.] The charge is, that she was engaged in carrying goods to a person engaged in the slave trade; not that she was engaged in the slave trade herself?—I most certainly say that I do not know whether the person is so engaged or not.

10388. Captain Fitzroy.] Is it usual to cover a transaction of Spanish trade with the English flag?—I am not aware that a Spanish merchant is prohibited chartering an English vessel.

10389. But is it lawful to employ the British flag to cover a vessel that is not owned by a British subject?—I say that that vessel is owned by a British subject.

10390. Sir T. D. Acland.] By whom?—By Captain Jennings.

10391. Was not the money with which she was purchased, the money of Pedro Martinez?—It seems to me that English captains and English subjects are not prohibited from borrowing money from Spaniards; she was bought with money lent by Pedro Martinez to Captain Jennings for the purpose.

10392. Do you mean that the money was a loan to Captain Jennings, at the time he paid it for the vessel?—It was a loan to Captain Jennings.

10393. Do you mean that the ship was then Captain Jennings’s property?—It was.

10394. Was it in his power to sell that ship at any port he pleased?—There was a mortgage upon the vessel.

10395. Mr. W. Patten.] You have stated that yours is an agency trade?—It is so; and in the multitude of business, any one can understand that 20,000l. in 15 or 20 years, can only be a mere trifle in the business of any merchant, without laying claim to a large business; and in following that business, we have executed shipping orders.

10396. To what part of the coast of Africa has that business been chiefly conducted?—I believe, almost exclusively to the Gallinas.

10397. Have the goods that Mr. Martinez has ordered to be sent to the Gallinas, been all sent to the same individual?—No, to different individuals; sometimes to Pedro Blanco, who was for a certain time an agent of Pedro Martinez on the coast, and sometimes we have sent a bill of lading drawn in this way to order; we have sent it to Pedro Martinez as a voucher against his account.

10398. Do you know the nature of the trade of Pedro Martinez at the Gallinas?—I know from general report that Don Pedro Martinez himself is supposed to deal in slaves, and I believe it is so.

10399. Is he known at the Havannah as a dealer in slaves?—I do not know, but I believe so; I do not know why it should not be known at the Havannah, if it is known in other parts.

10400. Chairman.] Is a ship which is hypothecated, liable to be foreclosed at any moment, at the discretion of the mortgagee?—It depends altogether upon the terms of the mortgage; if the mortgagee says, “You must give me the money when I ask for it,” of course he must sell the vessel if he has not got any thing else; he would always have to deduct whatever freight had been earned. When the security may be called upon to be effective, depends upon the nature of the transaction between the parties.

10401. Mr. Forster.] Your house had nothing to do with any letters that might be put on board the Augusta after she sailed from this country?—Nothing whatever.

10402. The Augusta was seized on the coast of Africa, on the charge of slave trading?—I believe that was the case.

10403. Did you not appeal against that condemnation?—Yes, there is an appeal by the owner.

10404. Before the Privy Council?—Yes.

10405. That appeal is not yet decided?—I believe not.

10406. Sir T. D. Acland.] You stated that your transactions with Africa for Martinez have amounted to about 20,000l. in 15 or 20 years. What has been the amount of your whole transactions with Blanco & Martinez of the Havannah during that period?—Perhaps 100,000l. or a larger sum. For instance, we have received more than 40 or 50 cargoes of sugar from the Havannah, consigned to us, and cigars; and we have received bills of lading of specie shipped at Mexico to be sold here, and bar gold, and things of that sort.

10407. Mr. Wood.] Have you reason to suppose that the whole of that large commerce is subservient to the carrying on of the slave trade by the house of Blanco & Martinez at the Havannah?—I do not know; I know that they have large transactions in general business. I know that a short time ago I got 40,000l. or 50,000l. of Spanish bonds in the market for Martinez. I know that he is a large speculator in Spanish bonds and in securities of state.

10408. Is that speculating in Spanish bonds on account of the house at Cadiz, or the house at Havannah?—Speaking technically, I should say it was on account of the Cadiz house.

10409. The question related to the commerce of the Havannah house?—Pedro Martinez is a Havannah merchant. But with regard to Havannah merchants, we have received large consignments of sugar, cochineal, and sometimes Mexican goods, brought to Havannah and shipped to us here.

10410. In what course of business have the proceeds of those consignments been disposed of; have they gone in sending supplies to the coast of Africa?—Out of that large amount of money 22,000l. is the amount of all the goods that we have sent to the coast of Africa in 20 years.

10411. Of all descriptions?—Of all sorts and kinds; I have gone through the invoice-book and found them out.

10412. Have the proceeds generally been disposed of by drafts from the parties themselves to your house?—By the parties at Havannah, when the exchange turns to their advantage.

10413. Have you reason to suppose that a large portion of the trade that they carry on at the Havannah is the slave trade?—I had no reason to know any thing of the kind; I have known more of their transactions with the slave trade since these things have been mooted than I ever knew before; I have had more knowledge of these things lately than I ever had in my life before; and when I say “I,” I beg to state that I ought to state “we,” for all my partners are in the same situation.

10414. Have you been employed by the house at the Havannah to ship manufactured goods from this country to Havannah, suitable for the African trade?—We have sometimes shipped goods to the Havannah of the same kind as those that were in the “Augusta;” cotton goods and other things of that sort.

10415. Has that been recently?—In the course of our operations.

10416. How many years ago?—In the course of these 15 or 20 years that we have been engaged in business with them; all that I could see in a moment by my books.

10417. Have you sent any goods of that description to the Havannah recently?—Not very recently; I think not for some years.

10418. Have you sent any goods of that description since you first began to send goods out direct to the coast of Africa?—They have been mixed; I cannot draw a distinction between the two destinations; some have gone to the Havannah, some to the Gallinas.

10419. Have those supplies of English manufactured goods, which heretofore went to the Havannah, to be used there for promoting the slave trade, been more recently sent direct from this country to the coast of Africa?—No, I do not think that is the case; I should think the contrary is more likely to be the case, but I think we have shipped in some months, or in some years, partly to the Havannah, and partly to the Gallinas.

10420. If the coast of Africa be their ultimate destination, will not they go out at a cheaper cost to the owner if they go direct from this country, than if they go circuitously first to Havannah, and then to the coast of Africa?—I think that is very doubtful indeed, because the freights to Havannah are so miserably low that I believe they can be taken for almost nothing; in Liverpool, English vessels loading for Havannah, load for any thing you will choose to give them.

10421. Has the trade of Pedro Martinez increased or diminished the last few years in that particular kind of goods?—I think it is neither more nor less: I think it is just about the same. I believe for the last three or four years it has been less altogether to both places, but it has diminished equally; I cannot say when it is increased in the one part or diminished in the other.

10422. How long have you conducted the trade upon the coast of Africa?—As I said before, I do not think we have conducted any trade on the coast of Africa, either legal or illegal.

10423. How long have you acted as agents for Martinez, on the coast of Africa?—As long as we have had any connexions with Martinez; it is part and parcel of other operations; that is to say, in the multitude of other operations that have intervened we have shipped goods as I have said.

10424. Did that part of your operations for him spring up after your first connexion with Martinez had commenced?—No, it is part of a mass of business all mixed up together.

10425. Mr. Forster.] In the extensive transactions of your house, these shipments, whether to Havannah or the coast of Africa, form a very trifling proportion?—I can only leave the Committee to judge for themselves as to that, after what I have stated.

10426. Mr. Wood.] What is the firm of the house at Havannah?—Pedro Martinez & Co.; the Cadiz house is Pedro Martinez only, without the company. Blanco & Carvalho was the firm some time ago: it is now Blanco & Co.

10427. Are the answers which you have given in relation to one of these houses equally applicable to both of them?—There is some difference between them: but in regard to the general business of both of them, what applies to the one applies to the other. I have the same general business with both, and the smallest part of the business has been the shipment of goods, whether to Havannah or to the coast of Africa. The shipments apply to Martinez only.

10428. Have you shipped English manufactured goods direct to the coast of Africa, on behalf of both those houses?—Such goods as were in the Augusta I have shipped for one party only. With regard to the house of Blanco & Carvalho, and the house of Pedro Martinez & Co., with both of them I have carried on a general large business. But to Blanco & Carvalho I never shipped a single piece of goods of any kind, except some sugar mills to the Havannah; and with regard to the house of Pedro Martinez, we have shipped such goods as those by the Augusta.

10429. From your general knowledge of the trade of the house of Pedro Martinez & Co., is it your opinion that the goods which you so shipped to the coast of Africa were destined to be employed in the slave trade?—I do not know; they may be, for any thing that I know.

10430. Has it come within your knowledge that the house of Martinez & Co. are exporters from Africa of the native produce of Africa?—No, because I never tried to get any knowledge of their transactions there of any sort.

10431. Have you ever received consignments from them, or on their behalf, of palm-oil, gold dust, or ivory, from the coast of Africa?—Never; we never have received any thing from the coast of Africa whatever. With regard to all these transactions, it will perhaps appear strange to the Committee that I should not know more of the coast of Africa, having shipped things there; but if we had shipped to the amount of 100,000l. to the coast of Africa, or carried on any considerable trade there, we should certainly have known more about the coast of Africa; but in transactions of a very large amount, an invoice occasionally of about 2,000l. or 3,000l. of goods was a thing that we sent as a matter of course, and did not trouble our heads about, especially as the remuneration we got was a mere trifle, not of itself worth pursuing, if it had not been for the general business we had.

10432. Chairman.] Is there any other part of the evidence which has been given that you wish to observe upon?—It is asked here, in [Question 5086], “Who was he?” the answer is, “The name is mentioned in the Parliamentary Papers as being connected with the purchase of a slave vessel, Mr. Kidd; and it is mentioned in connexion with that of Mr. Zulueta of London.” Now, as to Mr. Kidd, the very first thing I ever knew or ever heard of his name was to see it here. I never heard of his name at all. I never had a letter from him or through him, or knew any thing of the man whatever. That is with regard to myself. With regard to my partners, I can say the same; I have been making inquiries about it. My father knew there was such a man upon the coast, but I did not know even that, though I have managed all this business. Our house never had a letter from the man, or knew any thing about him.

10433. You have no connexion with Mr. Kidd in any way?—No, nor any knowledge of him. Then in the next answer it is said “Zulueta the gentleman in London to whom the vessel was sent, and who sold her again to her former Spanish owner, is a name well known on the coast in connexion with the slave trade.” Now what is known on the coast I really cannot pretend to say; but I believe that not many persons can say that which I can say, that neither myself, nor my father, nor my grandfather, nor any body in our firm, has ever had any kind of interest of any sort, or derived any emolument or connexion from the slave trade. My father had at one time an interest in a bankrupt’s estate at the Havannah, upon which he was a creditor. There were some slaves on the estate, and they formed part of the property assignable to the creditors, and my father got the slaves assigned to him; because the other gentlemen and the creditors were not of the same opinion, he got them assigned to him, and made them free; and that is all the connexion we have ever had with any slaves in the world. I do not know how far that may be considered irrelevant to the point, but I state it because we are here mentioned three or four times as connected with slave dealers, as a name well known in connexion with the slave trade. That sort of statement is rather a difficult thing to deal with.

10434. If it is meant to insinuate by these observations that you ever had any other connexion with the slave trade, than being the shipping agent of goods which were sent to a man who was a dealer in slaves, you entirely deny it?—I assure the Committee, that although I have a general notion as to what interest Blanco and Martinez have in slaves, yet, if I was put upon my oath to make any particular statement, I really could not, because I do not know it. Of course I believe it; but my personal knowledge amounts only to that which the knowledge of what we read in a newspaper amounts to.

10435. There was nothing upon the face of the transactions which you had with those parties which spoke of a connexion with traffic in slaves?—Nothing whatever. It is well known, that, fifty years ago, it was in the ordinary course of business in Cadiz to insure operations in slave trading. My house at that time were underwriters, and it was notorious that a policy of that kind would never enter the doors of our house; and nobody would come to offer such a thing to us upon any terms. It is notorious, both here and in Spain, that we set our faces distinctly against having any interest of any kind in the slave trade.

10436. It is further stated, “It appears that it is a regular thing sending vessels to him, that is to Mr. Zulueta; if they come to England to him he sends them to Cadiz, and they get out again to the Havannah and come again into the trade.” Have you any observation to make upon that?—It is all untrue, the whole of it; I never received a vessel from those gentlemen; there has been nothing of the kind.

10437. Have you any thing further to state upon the subject?—There are several things I have marked; for instance, such as this, “You are not bound to suppose that a man will make a bad use of that which he purchases.” If I wished to put my statement upon that footing, I should have done with it in a moment, for I knew nothing of the use they were put to. I bought goods, but as to what use was made of them I knew nothing whatever. But that is not the position which I wish to assume. It is said here that we sent goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco. To that I say, that we never sent either goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco. In answer to [Question 5474] it is said by Mr. Macaulay, “I stated ‘that it appears that it is a regular thing sending vessels to him, that is to Mr. Zulueta; if they come to England to him he sends them to Cadiz, and they get out again to the Havannah and come again into the trade.’ My answer was intended to describe only the course of that particular transaction and not to apply to any other case.” I never received a single vessel from the coast of Africa at any time, nor any body for us.

10438. Mr. Forster.] Then that statement is entirely untrue?—Totally, from beginning to end; we never did so, and nobody for us; and nobody to our knowledge, or with our connivance; I deny it in the most distinct manner. In answer to [Question 5487], Mr. Macaulay is asked, “Have you any thing further to say with regard to the connexion of Zulueta with the slave trade?” The answer is, “I would refer to his connexion with the Gollupchik, which was lately captured. In that case it appeared that the vessel went out direct to the Gallinas from London.” That is the same vessel as the Augusta, which I have already explained; it formerly bore the name of Gollupchik.

10439. Chairman.] Have you been concerned in the purchase of vessels frequently for Pedro Martinez or Pedro Blanco?—We have sometimes bought such vessels here as we could resell at the Havannah, such as the Arrogante, which we have bought.

10440. Upon orders?—Partly on orders, and sometimes on our own account on speculation.

10441. Mr. Wood.] For what particular trade were they calculated when they reached the Havannah?—I think for the same trade which they were calculated for when they were sold here.

10442. For the conveyance of merchandise?—As well as any thing else. They were sold here publicly.

10443. Mr. Forster.] If it was legal for them to be sold here, you considered that it was legal for you to buy them?—I never had any doubt of the legality of buying here, or of selling them again afterwards.

10444. Mr. Wood.] But the questions appertaining to the carrying on of the slave trade do not confine themselves within strictly legal grounds, but they have other more important considerations attaching to them?—As to that point, there may be a difference of opinion; I would be very sorry indeed, for the sake of catching the approval of other persons, to make a disclaimer of any particular set of opinions whatever; but I believe the only point with which the Committee have to do, is the legal point. As to the moral point, it seems to me, that I am to judge of that; upon that point, I think I have stated quite enough, having stated distinctly that I never had any connexion, nor derived any profit from the slave trade whatever.

10445. Sir T. D. Acland.] You have stated in your letter, that your principle is, that of “not wishing to derive profit or advantage from the sufferings of humanity, whether avoidable or unavoidable,” and you have acted upon that principle?—That is the principle upon which we have acted.

10446. And you do not find that acting upon that principle has interfered with the fair success of your commerce?—I do not think it would; if it would, we should not care much about that, because we are in a position which is well known to many persons here, as well as to persons abroad. In [5495], Mr. Macaulay is asked, “What evidence have we that Zulueta knew that in dealing with Pedro Blanco, the goods he sold would be used for the barter of slaves.” I have said, that I had nothing to do with him; I never sold any goods to Pedro Blanco. The answer here is, “Any body engaged in the Spanish trade would be aware that Pedro Blanco was the largest slave trader in the world.” It may be so, that he is the largest in the world; but I can only say that the largest is very little, if that is the case, for I have spoken of 22,000l. as being the amount of the bills we have paid for him, which I have here (producing the same), to the order of several houses established in Sierra Leone, for goods, I suppose bought for him, amounting to about 22,100l. I only mention this with reference to the notoriety of his being such a large slave dealer, that it was impossible to shut your eyes to it. Then with respect to what is said in answer [5502], I only wish to remark upon this, that what I have answered already I believe applies to this. It is said, “I think that a man who viewed the slave trade in a proper light, would have considered it improper to be so engaged.” I have observed already upon that, that the propriety or impropriety of our conduct is a different thing from the question whether we have been legally or illegally engaged, although the question with which I am now concerned is a general disclaimer of any participation in the slave trade.

10447. You agree with Mr. Macaulay’s opinion, “That a man who viewed the slave trade in a proper light, would have considered it improper to be so engaged”?—I do not know whether my opinions would agree with Mr. Macaulay’s upon this subject, but I think that a man who in any way tried to elude the laws of his country, would be acting against his conscience in the highest degree; that is my impression of it, and that is what I mean to say; and with regard to the slave trade, I mean to carry out that which I have stated in my letter, that I look upon it as an evil, and I would wish to add nothing to that evil in any way, but to diminish what I could of it. As to the moral criminality of all the parties, I suppose that depends upon other considerations. Then in the Evidence of Captain Hill, in answer to [question 7161], it is stated here, “the Custom-house officers in Liverpool may be totally ignorant of the trade carried on at the Gallinas, and also totally ignorant of the trade carried on by Pedro Martinez & Co. at the Havannah.” All our shipments have been made through the Custom-house, giving the destinations of the vessels and every thing, and what we did was illegal; we should consider ourselves not justly treated altogether, in being allowed to do that which we say we are going to do, and then after it is done being told it is illegal, although before it is done we have the very sanction of the parties to do it, because we have no concern in it beyond the shipment, and the shipment is publicly made. In answer to [Question 7165], it is said, “I have never met a vessel belonging to Messrs. Zulueta & Co. on the coast of Africa.” Of course, we never had one, and therefore he never could meet with one. Then in answer to [Question 7958*], Mr. Hill states that he found a letter, dated London, 20th of August 1840, stating, “We cannot exceed 500l. for the vessel in question, such as described in your letter; if you cannot therefore succeed at those limits, we must give up the purchase.” But he says, “there is a note to the letter, which says, ‘According to our Liverpool mode, note, you will go on shore to the Salthouse Dock.’” Now I have been looking at our letter-book, and I am quite willing to suppose that the person who has stated this might not wish, of course, to state any thing that was incorrect; but this is altogether unintelligible to me. The Salthouse Dock is well known to every person acquainted with Liverpool; it is one of the docks in which vessels go and unload, and that is all. Our house might say that our custom was to send our vessels there; we generally do; but I do not understand this at all.

10448. Chairman. You do not understand what bearing it has upon the question?—I think the words must be badly copied; there is no such thing in our letter-book as it appears here; it is quite unintelligible to me.

10449. Sir T. D. Acland.] Is the other part of the letter correct, which is stated as bearing date the 26th of September 1840?—Yes.

10450. Have you referred to your own copy of the letter?—Yes, and it is not in our copy; but I can conceive our saying to the captain of the vessel, go into the Salthouse Dock, because we generally send our vessels there.

10451. Had you ever employed Jennings before?—Jennings had had charge of vessels before, chartered by Martinez, and hence the connexion between Martinez and Jennings. There are some captains in all trades, that make a great deal of difficulty about every thing, and others that do not; of course, merchants like to deal with those that do not, more than those that do.

10452. Chairman.] It would appear from [Question 5087], that your name is supposed to have been mentioned in a Parliamentary Paper, as connected with a slave trade transaction. Will you refer to page 38, in Class B. Paper of 1839 and 1840, which is the place referred to in the answer, and see if there is any trace of your name in that transaction?—I do not find my own name there; I only find an allusion at the bottom to the name of Pedro Martinez, but in a manner in no way connected with me, and stating a circumstance which I never knew. In [Question 7965*], it is stated, “The Augusta had touched at Cadiz on her way out from England?” The answer is, “Yes, and landed part of her cargo at Cadiz, although it was consigned to be delivered at Gallinas.” Now Captain Hill, who has given this answer, must have known why she touched at Cadiz, and why she discharged part of her cargo, for it must be in the log-book of the vessel. It was because she was nearly wrecked in her passage; she put into Cadiz in distress, and there she landed a part of her cargo, which was tobacco which was rotten, and sold for the benefit of the underwriters. Now that has not been stated here, but I think Captain Hill must have known it, because it is in the log-book of the vessel which he took.

10453. Chairman.] And the log-book he must have read?—I should think so; because if he has not done that he has done nothing. All I mean to say is that it is, an ex parte statement.

10454. Sir T. D. Acland.] It was not intended when she left England, that she should put into Cadiz?—Most certainly not; all the facts of the case show that she went there because she was obliged. I have not seen the log-book, but it must be there; because in the log-book the captain is bound to enter those things, and whoever captured the vessel must have seen the log-book of course. In answer to [Question 7967*], it is said, “Messrs. Zulueta must be aware that it is contrary to law to act as agents or otherwise for the shipment of goods that are to be employed in the slave trade; they were bound to do nothing illegal; they are merchants residing in England, and they must conform themselves to the laws of England, and they cannot by the laws of England plead ignorance of those laws.” Now I and my partners are British subjects, and therefore we are bound by the law, and we must obey the law; and I say that to endeavour to elude the law is criminal in my estimation of things. In the answer to [Question 7970*], it is stated, “I have endeavoured to be particular in making it appear that this vessel was chartered to a place where there were no constituted authorities.” I think that in the Gallinas there are constituted authorities. It is the first time that I ever heard that it is illegal for any merchant to ship goods for any places without ascertaining beforehand whether there are constituted authorities there. I believe that if they like to send goods to any place, they may do it; and as to the fact of there being constituted authorities in the place or not, I do not see what that has to do with the question; besides, there have been such things as treaties made with persons at the Gallinas, so that there must be some constituted authorities there. But I do not know why I should be called upon to know whether there are constituted authorities at the port or not. Then it is stated, in answer to [Question 7971*], “As far as I am able to give my own opinion, I believe that Messrs. Zulueta were perfectly criminal, at least they had a knowledge of what they were doing. I think I am borne out in that by the secrecy they have endeavoured to pursue in putting in a false owner.” I have answered all that before. I state again, that all the secrecy and mystery of the thing lies in supposing other things different from what appear. Then it is said, “In fact there can be no want of evidence to show that Messrs. Zulueta had for a length of time been agents to slave dealers.” Mr. Blanco and Mr. Martinez may have been engaged, as I have stated, in slave operations; and I have stated that we conducted their general business here.

10455. Mr. Forster.] Is not Pedro Blanco a partner in a commercial house at the Havannah who are general merchants?—Yes, I have stated that before.

10456. Captain Fitzroy.] Have you ever discounted any bill drawn by Pedro Blanco on Pedro Martinez &. Co. for goods delivered for them on the African coast at the Gallinas?—I have accepted bills drawn by Pedro Blanco and others from the Gallinas upon our house, and paid them to the order of several houses in Sierra Leone and houses in London. I have paid them in money that I had in my hands resulting from the general transactions of business, which I have explained. But discounting would be this, if I had paid those acceptances before they were due, and received some consideration for them; that I never did, but I might have done it in the case of these bills.

10457. Were those bills negociated through your hands in payment of goods delivered at the Gallinas?—No; they were drawn generally with the advice attached to them, saying, I have drawn a thousand pounds upon you for account of Blanco and Carvalho, or Blanco &, Co., at the Havannah.

10458. Mr. Wood.] By whose orders were you desired to honour it; was it by the order of Pedro Blanco at the Gallinas?—No; by the house at the Havannah or by the house at Cadiz; sometimes the one and sometimes the other. Blanco had a house some time ago in Malaga, as a general merchant, occupied in shipping the fruits of the country and oil to the United States, &c. &c. In answer to [Question 7961*], the following is stated:—“In one of these letters, dated Cadiz, 30th of November 1840, is a paragraph to the following effect: ‘In a letter, dated London, the 21st instant, which I have just received from Messrs. Zulueta & Co., merchants in London, I had the pleasure of receiving a bill drawn by you on them for 250l., which I this day place to their credit, waiting your advice of the same.’” There is here certainly a mistranslation of some kind, because it says that this man receives a bill upon us, and credits it to us, which is of course contradictory in the very terms of it, because if the bill was remitted to this man upon us, he would have debited it to us, and not credited it. But altogether there is some confusion about it; I suppose arising from the mistranslation of the documents, because the fact is this, the bill is one of the bills I have already mentioned, drawn from the Gallinas upon ourselves, to the order of a third party. It is a bill drawn at the Gallinas upon ourselves, on account of the credit, and therefore it could never have been received by the person in Cadiz. It must have been presented to us here, and in fact so it was; the bill is here. I wish to show that that letter is perfectly inaccurate.

10459. Sir T. D. Acland.] Can you give the Committee any information upon this: “The other letters,” nine of them, “were all on slave business: not a word of any innocent trade, but the whole directing how slaves were to be shipped on board various vessels.” How do you account for this vessel carrying letters upon slave business?—I account for it in this way: first of all, it is impossible for us to answer here what letters will be put on board a vessel at Cadiz; but there is very seldom any communication between Cadiz and the Gallinas; whatever letters there were must have gone by such random occasions as arose. As to the fact that whoever wrote those letters is engaged in the slave trade, the letters will speak for themselves.

10460. Chairman.] Those letters were not prepared in the expectation of the arrival of this vessel, because this vessel was not destined to that port, and was only driven there by stress of weather?—Most certainly. I will add one circumstance in proof of that. The vessel was supposed to have been lost, from the circumstance of a boat having been found upon the coast with the name of T. Jennings upon it, and it was supposed that it was a boat belonging to the vessel; it was, in fact, a boat from the vessel, but the vessel had not been lost; therefore the vessel was quite unexpected in Cadiz by every soul. It went there from stress of weather, and nothing more. Then it is said, in answer to [Question 7972*], “I think the papers are quite conclusive to the mind of any man that Zulueta was cognizant of what he was doing; but as far as it is an illegal transaction, it is not for me to judge; but the Judge of the Vice-Admiralty Court of Sierra Leone did think it illegal, and condemned the vessel; and moreover, the man who is put forward as captain and owner did not defend the vessel on her trial.” Now, as to the statement of his being a false owner, I have already stated that he was not. But then, again, with regard to the other part of the business, the man did not defend it, because he was prevented from defending it.

10461. How was he prevented from defending it?—He had not money to defend himself. It appears from the protest that the vessel was condemned without allowing Thomas Jennings to say any thing in her defence. I will deliver in the protest, which shows that that was the fact. (The same was delivered in.) As to his not having money, it is said that he might have raised money upon the cargo; but there is no one can entertain any doubt as to the palpable contradiction of such a statement, because to raise money upon a cargo, which was seized, over which he had no control, is to me quite unintelligible.

10462. Mr. Wood.] You have spoken of some bills drawn upon your house by Pedro Blanco, and you were understood to say that they were drawn some of them, in favour of Sierra Leone houses. Can you inform the Committee the names of the houses at Sierra Leone in whose favour they were drawn?—I have no objection to do so, but I feel loath to mention names. I could have mentioned many names; we are not the only correspondents in London of Blanco and Martinez. With regard to those houses at Sierra Leone, I should be sorry to introduce names, because I know the pain I have had from mine being introduced here, but still there is no secret in the thing.

10463. You have given the committee the names of parties drawing the bills, and on whose account they were drawn, and you speak of their being drawn in favour of Sierra Leone houses; have you any objection to furnish the names of the houses in whose favour they were drawn?—I say that I have no objection, except that I should not like to introduce names unnecessarily; but the bills are in my hands, and any gentleman can look at them who chooses; they are at the disposal of any body who likes to look at them.

[The Witness produced the bills.]

Sabbati, 23º die Julii, 1842.

MEMBERS PRESENT.

Sir T. D. Acland.
Mr. Aldam.
Viscount Courtenay.
Viscount Ebrington.
Captain Fitzroy.

Mr. Forster.
Mr. Milnes.
Mr. Wilson Patten.
Mr. G. W. Wood.

Viscount Sandon, in the chair.

Pedro de Zulueta, jun. Esq. called in; and further examined.

10464. Chairman.] The Committee understand that you have some further observations to make upon the evidence which has been given with reference to your house?—With reference to the destination of the Augusta, from Liverpool to Gallinas, and the fact of its having put into Cadiz unforeseen, and unpremeditated altogether, in consequence of stress of weather, I omitted to mention a circumstance which will put the thing beyond doubt, and it is this: an insurance was made at Lloyd’s, from Liverpool to the Gallinas, and it is well known that, of course, we should have forfeited the insurance by going to any other port except from the peril of the sea, and the British consul at Cadiz is well aware of the circumstance, because he is Lloyd’s agent there; and therefore he had to interfere in the whole proceeding; without his sanction nothing could have been done. We have called upon the underwriters upon that account, and it has been paid, and which would not have been paid without its being proved. I stated yesterday that the transactions of my house with Pedro Martinez & Co. of the Havannah, with Blanco & Carvalho of the Havannah, and with Pedro Martinez of Cadiz, had amounted in the 20 years to 100,000l. I was afraid of overrating the amount; but on reference to the books of the house, I find that our transactions with them in 20 years have amounted to 400,000l. out of which the 22,000l. that was mentioned is the whole amount of goods that have been shipped by their order for the coast of Africa.

10465. Can you state how much of the 22,000l. has accrued within any given period; is it distributed equally over the whole 20 years, or has it grown up in the last four or five years?—In the last few years it has decreased, but otherwise it is spread over the whole number of years. In such a length of time it forms to our minds a mere speck. In the last six months our transactions with the house of Pedro Martinez of Cadiz amount to already 30,000l., and with Pedro Martinez of the Havannah to nearly the same amount. With the house of Pedro Blanco & Co. of the Havannah, the amount has been 15,000l. for what has passed in the last six months, and with the houses generally at Cuba, throughout the island, it amounts to 100,000l. altogether, arising entirely from cargoes of sugar, and from tobacco, and remittances of bills from there in carrying on banking operations, upon which they draw again, which are negotiated in the Havannah and sent to houses in London to cash, and remittances of drafts on the Spanish treasury at the Havannah, and bills of lading of specie and bullion, and such things, from Mexico. I state these things only to show the nature of our trade, and I have been particular, because as these are large amounts I wish to show what they arise from. Another fact escaped my attention yesterday, and it is this, that Don Pedro Martinez is owner of several large vessels of 300 tons and 400 tons, which are in the trade of sugar, tobacco, and such things, with us, in England and with Cadiz.

10466. Have you bought other vessels for him than those which have been employed in the slave trade?—Yes, decidedly so; there was the Star, Captain Jennings. That vessel was sent from here to the Gallinas, precisely the same as the Augusta has been sent. She delivered her cargo; she went from thence to Cape Coast, I believe, and from there to Madeira; she received a cargo of wheat; she came back to Spain, and she was sold at Liverpool to a third party, not Martinez, or any body connected with him; in fact, she was sold for very little. The object of that vessel was just the same as the Augusta, to maintain a legal trade with Gallinas; that is, within my own knowledge.

10467. Mr. Aldam.] What is the description of legal trade that was carried on?—Sending out goods to be sold at those places, and to go to other ports, not to carry any cargo from there to the Havannah.

10468. There has been a good deal of evidence, in which it has been stated that no legal trade is carried on with Gallinas?—I could not say what trade there is at the Gallinas of a legal nature, but I know that those vessels would have taken nothing if there was nothing legal to take, from that place to the Havannah, or to any other place; I am aware that my answers upon this point must be deficient, because I am really very ignorant of the trade of the West Coast of Africa.

10469. Do you suppose that the vessels would be used to carry on a legal trade?—Most certainly I do; because persons find it worth while to send goods there constantly. The Committee will observe, that what the application of the goods is afterwards I cannot say, but I speak of the fact of the vessels having gone there with the intention of returning to the Havannah to bring a cargo of some description here, to pay a freight, and then to go again with the same kind of goods to Africa.

10470. Chairman.] You have stated before, that you have cleared out for the Gallinas from Liverpool?—Yes.

10471. In carrying on operations of that kind, should you have ever thought it necessary to exercise any disguise as to what part of Africa you were clearing out for?—Not at all.

10472. You did not imagine, that in being the instrument of sending lawful goods to any part of Africa you were doing any thing which required concealment?—Nothing at all of the kind; and the proof of that is, that in the bills of entry in Liverpool any body could see our names as consignees of the vessel, and see entries made in our names of every thing.

10473. Is not there a document officially published daily in London and at Liverpool, stating the daily entries at the Custom-house of all goods shipped, with the description of the goods, and the name of the port and of the shipper?—Yes, there is.

10474. Is not this printed from time to time in the public papers?—It is in general circulation; there is hardly any merchant in Liverpool or in London who is not possessed of one. The Liverpool entries are reprinted in London, Liverpool being such an important place of business. The bill printed in London contains also Liverpool, Hull, and Bristol.

10475. So that every such transaction is perfectly notorious to every one?—Notorious to every one who chooses to read the public papers. There is another thing which escaped me till I came into the room this morning. As I have been in the business from my childhood, I know every thing that is going on in it. The Arrogante, after we sold her at the Havannah, was sent to Vera Cruz with a cargo of Spanish paper, spirits, raisins, &c. &c., such as is sent for the South American trade, for the purpose of breaking the blockade of Vera Cruz, which she did break and went in. It was asked in [question 7147], whether the Augusta was equipped for the slave trade the second time; the answer was, “She was not.” I wish to state, that before any goods were put on board of her, it was our express wish and order that every thing in her that was fit for that trade should be taken down, and the vessel put in the same condition as any other merchant vessel; and we should not have loaded any thing in her if that had not been done. It is stated in the evidence that the Augusta was consigned to three notorious slave dealers; now we had never in our lives heard of the name of any one of the parties to whom she was consigned.

10476. You mean that the first time you heard their names was when the order to ship those goods was given to you?—Yes, and the circumstance of three consignees is a regular thing with distant consignments, such as South America and Africa. There is such an uncertainty attending the residence of parties in those places, that we invariably put a second and a third consignee in addition, in case the first should not be in the way.

10477. Mr. Forster.] Some bills were referred to in your former evidence drawn by Mr. Pedro Blanco upon your house; have you any objection to put those bills before the Committee?—Not any. And I ought to state now, as I have been looking at the bills more closely, that they are not all drawn to the orders of Sierra Leone houses, but to the orders of other Spaniards, and those people endorsed them to the Sierra Leone houses. This does not alter the case materially, but for the sake of accuracy I mention it.

10478. You will put them in for the inspection of the Committee?—Certainly.—(The same were delivered in.)

10479. You only hesitated in giving the names yesterday from motives of delicacy, not from any motive of concealment?—Yes, I do not wish to withhold any thing, but I am indisposed to introduce any name. I have no wish to conceal any thing whatever. I have been consulting with my partners upon this subject, and I have a request to make to the Committee. Our position is one which is certainly an unpleasant one. I think that what I have stated will have proved to the satisfaction of the Committee that we have not in any way intended to elude the law. Now our situation is this, with reference to any future transactions we have no valid reason to give our correspondents for not executing an order. The Committee will have to make their report, and several gentlemen have given their opinions as to how the law is to be altered. I, for my part, am not competent to give any advice upon the subject, but I would only wish that whatever law is made, it should be clear and distinct as to what a man might to do, and what he is not to do. The trade that we have carried on with the Gallinas, at least the shipments we have made, are perfectly unimportant to us in itself, as is evident from the amount; but at the same time, with regard to the correspondents that we have accounts with, we are placed in this dilemma, that we must refuse fulfilling their orders without giving them any valid reason, unless we should be able to say, Sir, we cannot fulfil your order because the law of this country prohibits that we should ship any goods that are liable to be applied to that purpose, to persons who may at any time have had any dealings, or are suspected of having had any dealings of that description. To us it is indifferent which way the legislation turns upon this subject, so long as we know what it is. But supposing it legal for a man to ship goods to a port, are you then to be liable to have the vessels captured, and what to us is worst of all, to be brought into a kind of notoriety as being engaged in slave dealing, which is exceedingly unpleasant to our feelings. That is a consideration which I hope the Committee will look to.

10480. You wish that the law should be made clear for your guidance, to enable you to understand what course you are to pursue with your correspondents?—Yes, in what I have to do with them. I do not mean to say that if a man ships goods knowingly to slave dealers, for the purpose of being exchanged for slaves, I do not mean to say that the law does not reach him now. My own impression is, that it might do so; at all events the morality of the thing would be very questionable; but we want something more than that; that is not enough. Here is my case, which, if true, proves that we have not done any such thing, and yet we are liable to all this unpleasantness.

10481. You want something also to plead with your correspondents, as a reason for not complying with any order they may send?—Exactly.

10482. You feel that at the present moment the law is in an unsatisfactory state, that doubts have been raised upon the subject, which as merchants you are desirous of seeing quieted by some declaration, one way or another?—I do; for instance, I may on going home find an order; and I assure the Committee that after all that has occurred, after all this unpleasantness upon the subject, I should be in an awkward position. I might have to throw up my correspondents without any valid reason, because of course goods may be shipped to them by other parties, which I should refuse to do; and they may do it legally, because they may send those goods to the Havannah or to any other such place, and then my correspondents could not say that I had any valid reason to refuse.

10483. If there were any obstruction interposed in the way of export from this country directly to the coast of Africa, you would rather desire that it should be at the English Custom-house, before the goods went out, than that it should be left in uncertainty, to be decided upon the coast of Africa?—Exactly; that is my impression. At the same time I am not stating that that would be wise or expedient, or proper, or any thing of the kind; but I say this simply because I do not wish it to be brought into question that we elude the law; not that we break it, because that would be a question before a court of justice; but before men of honour, I do not wish to be open to the imputation of eluding the law.

REPORT
FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE
ON THE
WEST COAST OF AFRICA.

Martis, 22º die Martii, 1842.

Ordered, That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the State of the British Possessions on the West Coast of Africa, more especially with reference to their present Relations with the neighbouring Native Tribes.

Mercurii, 6º die Aprilis, 1842.

A Committee was nominated of,—

Lord Stanley.
Viscount Sandon.
Lord John Russell.
Sir Robert Harry Inglis.
Mr. E. Denison.
Mr. Forster.
Sir Thomas Acland.
Mr. Milnes.

Mr. Charles Buller.
Mr. Hutt.
Captain Fitzroy.
Earl of March.
Viscount Ebrington.
Viscount Courtenay.
Mr. George William Wood.

Ordered, That the Committee have power to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Ordered, That Five be the Quorum of the Committee.

Mercurii, 11º die Maii, 1842.

Ordered, That Mr. Stuart Wortley, Mr. Evans, Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. Aldam, Mr. William Hamilton, and Mr. Metcalfe, be added to the Committee.