The Works of Samuel Johnson, LL.D. Volume 11. / Parlimentary Debates II.

by Samuel Johnson

HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 21, 1742-3.

DEBATE ON SPIRITUOUS LIQUORS.

The bill for altering the duties on spirituous liquors, and permitting them again to be sold with less restraint, which was sent up by the commons to the house of lords, produced there very long and serious deliberations, to which the lords had every day each a particular summons, as in cases of the highest concern.

The bill was entitled, An act for repealing certain duties on spirituous liquors, and on licenses for retailing the same, and for laying other duties on spirituous liquors, and on licenses for retailing the said liquors.

The duties which were proposed to be repealed, were those laid by the act 9 Geo. II. which permitted no person to sell spirituous liquors in less quantity than two gallons without a license, for which fifty pounds were to be paid. Whereas by the new bill a small duty per gallon was laid on at the still-head, and the license was to cost but twenty shillings, which was to be granted only to such as had licenses for selling ale. On the credit of this act, as soon as it was passed by the commons, the ministry borrowed a large sum at three per cent, but it was understood that the sinking fund was pledged as a collateral security to pay any deficiency.

In about a fortnight this bill passed all the forms in the house of commons, almost without opposition; and with little or no alteration from the scheme brought into the committee on ways and means for raising the supply for the current year, by Mr. SANDYS, then chancellor of the exchequer.

It was immediately carried up to the house of lords, where it was read for the first time on the 17th of February; and ordered a second reading on the twenty-second. On that day the commissioners of excise, according to an order of the house, brought an account of the sums arising by the last act, and a yearly account for several years past; and attending were interrogated concerning the execution of the last act.

The bishop of ORFORD particularly inquired, whether it had been effectually put in force, and questions of the same kind were asked by lord LONSDALE and others; to which the commissioners answered, that it had been diligently and vigorously executed, so far as they or their officers had power to enforce it; but that the justices had not always been equally zealous in seconding their endeavours; and that it was impossible to discover all the petty dealers by whom it was infringed, spirituous liquors still continuing to be sold in small obscure shops, and at the corners of the streets.

A motion was also made, that three of the physicians of most note for their learning and experience, should be summoned to attend the house, to declare their opinion with regard to the effects of spirituous liquors upon the human body. But this was rejected by 33 against 17.

The bill was read the second time on the day appointed, when the question being put, whether it should be committed, lord HERVEY rose, and spoke to the following effect:—

My lords, though I doubt not but the bill now before us will be promoted in this house, by the same influence by which it has been conducted through the other; yet I hope its success will be very different, and that those arts by which its consequences, however formidable, have been hitherto concealed, or by which those whose business it was to have detected and exposed them, have been induced to turn their eyes aside, will not be practised here with the same efficacy, though they should happen to be attempted with the same confidence. I hope that zeal for the promotion of virtue, and that regard to publick happiness, which has on all occasions distinguished this illustrious assembly, will operate now with uncommon energy, and prevent the approbation of a bill, by which vice is to be made legal, by which the fences of subordination are to be thrown down, and all the order of society, and decency of regular establishments be obliterated by universal licentiousness, and lost in the wild confusions of debauchery; of debauchery encouraged by law, and promoted for the support of measures expensive, ridiculous, and unnecessary.

A law of so pernicious a tendency shall, at least, not pass through this house without opposition; nor shall drunkenness be established among us without the endeavour of one voice, at least, to withhold its progress; for I now declare that I oppose the commitment of this bill, and that I am determined to continue my opposition to it in all the steps by which the forms of our house make it necessary that it should pass before it can become a law.

Nor do I speak, my lords, on this occasion, with that distrust and mental hesitation which are both natural and decent, when questions are dubious, when probability seems to be almost equally divided, when truth appears to hover between two parties, and by turns to favour every speaker; when specious arguments are urged on both sides, and the number of circumstances to be collected, and of relations to be adjusted, is so great, that an exact and indubitable decision is scarcely to be attained by human reason. I do not, my lords, now speak with the diffidence of inquiry, or the uncertainty of conjecture, nor imagine that I am now examining a political expedient, of which the success can only be perfectly known by experience, and of which, therefore, no man can absolutely determine, whether it will be useful or pernicious, or a metaphysical difficulty, which may be discussed for ever without being decided.

In considering this bill, my lords, I proceed upon stated and invariable principles. I have no facts to examine but such as, to the last degree, are notorious, such as have been experienced every hour, since the existence of society; and shall appeal, not to transitory opinions, or casual assertions, but to the laws of all civilized nations, and to the determinations of every man whose wisdom or virtue have given him a claim to regard.

All the decrees of all the legislators of the earth, or the declarations of wise men, all the observations which nature furnishes, and all the examples which history affords, concur in condemning this bill before us, as a bill injurious to society, destructive of private virtue, and, by consequence, of publick happiness, detrimental to the human species, and, therefore, such as ought to be rejected in that assembly to which the care of the nation is committed; that assembly which ought to meet only for the benefit of mankind, and of which the resolutions ought to have no other end, than the suppression of those vices by which the happiness of life is obstructed or impaired.

The bill now before you, my lords, is fundamentally wrong, as it is formed upon a hateful project of increasing the consumption of spirituous liquors, and, consequently, of promoting drunkenness among a people reproached already for it throughout the whole world. It contains such a concatenation of enormities, teems with so vast a number of mischiefs, and therefore produces, in those minds that attend to its nature, and pursue its consequences, such endless variety of arguments against it, that the memory is perplexed, the imagination crowded, and utterance overburdened. Before any one of its pernicious effects is fully dilated a thousand others appear; the hydra still shoots out new heads, and every head vomits out new poison to infect society, and lay the nation desolate.

I am, therefore, at a loss, my lords, not how to raise arguments against this bill, which cannot be read or mentioned without, furnishing them by thousands; but how to methodise those that occur to me, and under what heads to range my thoughts, that I may pursue my design without confusion, that I may understand myself, and be understood by your lordships.

A multitude of considerations are obvious, all of importance sufficient to claim attention, and to outweigh the advantages proposed by this hateful bill, but which cannot all be mentioned, or at least not with that exactness which they deserve; I shall, therefore, confine myself at present to three considerations, and shall entreat the attention of your lordships, while I examine the bill now before us, with regard to its influence on the health and morals of the people, the arguments by which it has been hitherto supported, and the effects which it will have on the sinking fund.

The first head, my lords, is so copious, that I find myself very little relieved by the division which I have made. The moral arguments, though separated from those which are either political or temporary, are sufficient to overpower the strongest reason, and overflow the most extensive comprehension.

It is not necessary, I suppose, to show that health of body is a blessing, that the duties of life in which the greatest part of the world is employed, require vigour and activity, and that to want strength of limbs, and to want the necessary supports of nature, are to the lower classes of mankind the same. I need not observe to your lordships, whose legislative character obliges you to consider the general concatenation of society, that all the advantages which high stations or large possessions can confer, are derived from the labours of the poor; that to the plough and the anvil, the loom and the quarry, pride is indebted for its magnificence, luxury for its dainties, and delicacy for its ease. A very little consideration will be sufficient to show, that the lowest orders of mankind supply commerce with manufacturers, navigation with mariners, and war with soldiers; that they constitute the strength and riches of every nation; and that, though they generally move only by superiour direction, they are the immediate support of the community; and that without their concurrence, policy would project in vain, wisdom would end in idle speculation, and the determinations of this assembly would be empty sounds.

It is, therefore, my lords, of the utmost importance, that all practices should be suppressed by which the lower orders of the people are enfeebled and enervated; for if they should be no longer able to bear fatigues or hardships, if any epidemical weakness of body should be diffused among them, our power must be at an end, our mines would be an useless treasure, and would no longer afford us either the weapons of war, or the ornaments of domestick elegance; we should no longer give law to mankind by our naval power, nor send out armies to fight for the liberty of distant nations; we should no longer supply the markets of the continent with our commodities, or share in all the advantages which nature has bestowed upon distant countries, for all these, my lords, are the effects of indigent industry, and mechanick labour.

All these blessings or conveniencies are procured by that strength of body, which nature has bestowed upon the natives of this country, who have hitherto been remarkably robust and hardy, able to support long fatigues, and to contend with the inclemency of rigorous climates, the violence of storms, and the turbulence of waves, and who have, therefore, extended their conquests with uncommon success, and been equally adapted to the toils of trade and of war, and have excelled those who endeavoured to rival them either in the praise of workmanship or of valour.

But, my lords, if the use of spirituous liquors be encouraged, their diligence, which can only be supported by health, will quickly languish; every day will diminish the numbers of the manufacturers, and, by consequence, augment the price of labour; those who continue to follow their employments, will be partly enervated by corruption, and partly made wanton by the plenty which the advancement of their wages will afford them, and partly by the knowledge that no degree of negligence will deprive them of that employment in which there will be none to succeed them. All our commodities, therefore, will be wrought with less care and at a higher price, and therefore, will be rejected at foreign markets in favour of those which other nations will exhibit of more value, and yet at a lower rate.

No sooner, my lords, will this bill make drunkenness unexpensive and commodious, no sooner will shops be opened in every corner of the streets, in every petty village, and in every obscure cellar for the retail of these liquors, than the workrooms will be forsaken, when the artificer has, by the labour of a small part of the day, procured what will be sufficient to intoxicate him for the remaining hours; for he will hold it ridiculous to waste any part of his life in superfluous diligence, and will readily assign to merriment and frolicks that time which he now spends in useful occupations.

But such is the quality of these liquors, that he will not long be able to divide his life between labour and debauchery, he will soon find himself disabled by his excesses from the prosecution of his work, and those shops which were before abandoned for the sake of pleasure, will soon be made desolate by sickness; those who were before idle, will become diseased, and either perish by untimely deaths, or languish in misery and want, an useless burden to the publick.

Nor, my lords, will the nation only suffer by the deduction of such numbers from useful employments, but by the addition of great multitudes to those who must be supported by the charity of the publick. The manufacturer, who by the use of spirituous liquors weakens his limbs or destroys his health, at once, takes from the community to which he belongs, a member by which the common stock was increased, and by leaving a helpless family behind him, increases the burden which the common stock must necessarily support. And the trader or husbandman is obliged to pay more towards the maintenance of the poor, by the same accident which diminishes his trade or his harvest, which takes away part of the assistance which he received, and raises the price of the rest.

That these liquors, my lords, liquors of which the strength is heightened by distillation, have a natural tendency to inflame the blood, to consume the vital juices, destroy the force of the vessels, contract the nerves, and weaken the sinews, that they not only disorder the mind for a time, but by a frequent use precipitate old age, exasperate diseases, and multiply and increase all the infirmities to which the body of man is liable, is generally known to all whose regard to their own health, or study to preserve that of others, has at any time engaged them in such inquiries, and would have been more clearly explained to your lordships, had the learned physicians been suffered to have given their opinions on this subject, as was yesterday proposed.

Why that proposal was rejected, my lords; for what reason, in the discussion of so important a question, any kind of evidence was refused, posterity will find it difficult to explain, without imputing to your lordships such motives as, I hope, will never operate in this assembly. It will be, perhaps, thought that the danger was generally known, though not acknowledged; and that those who resolved to pass the bill, had no other care than to obstruct such information as might prove to mankind, that they were incited by other designs than that of promoting the publick good.

It is not, however, necessary that any very curious inquiries should be made for the discovery of that which, indeed, cannot be concealed, and which every man has an opportunity of remarking that passes through the streets.

So publick, so enormous, and so pernicious has been this dreadful method of debauchery, that it has excited and baffled the diligence of the magistrates, who have endeavoured to stop its progress or hinder its effects. They found their efforts ineffectual, and their diligence not only not useful to the publick, but dangerous to themselves. They quickly experienced, my lords, the folly of those laws which punish crimes instead of preventing them; they found that legal authority had little influence, when opposed to the madness of multitudes intoxicated with spirits, and that the voice of justice was but very little heard amidst the clamours of riot and drunkenness.

We live, my lords, in a nation where the effects of strong liquors have been for a long time too well known; we know that they produce, in almost every one, a high opinion of his own merit; that they blow the latent sparks of pride into flame, and, therefore, destroy all voluntary submission; they put an end to subordination, and raise every man to an equality with his master, or his governour. They repress all that awe by which men are restrained within the limits of their proper spheres, and incite every man to press upon him that stands before him, that stands in the place of which that sudden elevation of heart, which drunkenness bestows, makes him think himself more worthy.

Pride, my lords, is the parent, and intrepidity the fosterer of resentment; for this reason, men are almost always inclined, in their debauches, to quarrels and to bloodshed; they think more highly of their own merit, and, therefore, more readily conclude themselves injured; they are wholly divested of fear, insensible of present danger, superiour to all authority, and, therefore, thoughtless of future punishment; and what then can hinder them from expressing their resentment with the most offensive freedom, or pursuing their revenge with the most daring violence.

Thus, my lords, are forgotten disputes often revived, and after having been long reconciled, are at last terminated by blows; thus are lives destroyed upon the most trifling occasions, upon provocations often imaginary, upon chimerical points of honour, where he who gave the offence, perhaps without design, supports it only because he has given it; and he who resents it, pursues his resentment only because he will not acknowledge his mistake.

Thus are lives lost, my lords, at a time when those who set them to hazard, are without consciousness of their value, without sense of the laws which they violate, and without regard to any motives but the immediate influence of rage and malice.

When we consider, my lords, these effects of drunkenness, it can be no subject of wonder, that the magistrate finds himself overborne by a multitude united against him, and united by general debauchery. Government, my lords, subsists upon reverence, and what reverence can be paid to the laws, by a crowd, of which every man is exalted by the enchantment of those intoxicating spirits, to the independence of a monarch, the wisdom of a legislator, and the intrepidity of a hero? when every man thinks those laws oppressive that oppose the execution of his present intentions, and considers every magistrate as his persecutor and enemy?

Laws, my lords, suppose reason; for who ever attempted to restrain beasts but by force; and, therefore, those that propose the promotion of publick happiness, which can be produced only by an exact conformity to good laws, ought to endeavour to preserve what may properly be called the publick reason; they ought to prevent a general depravation of the faculties of those whose benefit is intended, and whose obedience is required; they ought to take care that the laws may be known, for how else can they be observed? and how can they be known, or at least, how can they be remembered in the heats of drunkenness?

That the laws are universally neglected and defied among the lower class of mankind, among those whose want of the lights of knowledge and instruction, makes positive and compulsory directions more necessary for the regulation of their conduct, is apparent from the representation of the magistrates, in which the general disorders of this great city, the open wickedness, the daring insolence, and unbounded licentiousness of the common people, is very justly described.

Their wickedness and insolence, my lords, is, indeed, such, that order is almost at an end, rank no longer confers respect, nor does dignity afford security. The same confidence produces insults and robberies, and that insensibility with which debauchery arms the mind equally against fear and pity, frequently aggravates the guilt of robbery with greater crimes; those who are so unhappy as to fall into the hands of thieves, heated by spirits into madmen, seldom escape without suffering greater cruelties than the loss of money.

That the use of these poisonous draughts quickly debilitates the limbs, and destroys the strength of the body; however this quality may impair our manufactures, weaken our armies, and diminish our commerce; however it may reduce our fleets to an empty show, and enable our enemies to triumph in the field, or our rivals to supplant us in the market, can scarcely, my lords, come under consideration, when we reflect how debauchery operates upon the morals.

It is happy, my lords, that those who are inclined to mischief, are disabled in a short time from executing their intentions, by the same causes which excite them; that they are obliged to stop in the career of their crimes, that they are preserved from the hand of the executioner by the liquor which exposes them to it, and that palsies either disable them from pursuing their villanies, or fevers put an end to their lives.

It is happy, my lords, that what is thus violent, cannot be lasting; that those lives which are employed in mischief, are generally short; and that since it is the quality of this malignant liquor to corrupt the mind, it likewise destroys the body.

But this effect, my lords, is not constant or regular; men sometimes continue for many years, to supply the, expenses of drunkenness by rapine, and to exasperate the fury of rapine by drunkenness. And, therefore, though there could be any one so regardless of the happiness of mankind, as to look without concern upon them who hurry themselves to the grave with poison, he may yet be incited by his own interest to prevent the progress of this practice, a practice which tends to the subversion of all order, and the destruction of all happiness.

It is well known, my lords, that publick happiness must be on a stated proportion to publick virtue; that mutual trust is the cement of society, and that no man can be trusted but as he is reputed honest. To promote trust, my lords, is the apparent tendency of all laws. When the ties of morality are enforced by penal sanctions, men are more afraid to violate them, and, therefore, are trusted with less danger; but when they no longer fear the law, they are to be restrained only by their consciences; and if neither law nor conscience has any influence upon their conduct, they are only a herd of wild beasts, let loose to prey upon each other, and every man will inflict or suffer pain, as he meets with one stronger or weaker than himself. Thus, my lords, will all authority cease, property will become dangerous to him that possesses it, and confusion will overspread the whole community; nor can it be easily conceived, by the most extensive comprehension how far the mischiefs may spread, or where the chain of destructive consequences will end.

If we consider our fleet or our army, my lords, it is apparent, that neither obedience nor fidelity can be expected from men upon whom all the ties of morality, and all the sanctions of law have lost their influence; they will mutiny without fear, and desert without scruple, and like wild beasts, will, upon the least provocation, turn upon those by whom they ought to be governed.

But drunkenness, my lords, not only corrupts men, by taking away the sense of those restraints by which they are generally kept in awe, and withheld from the perpetration of villanies, but by superadding the temptations of poverty, temptations not easily to be resisted, even by those whose eyes are open to the consequences of their actions, and which, therefore, will certainly prevail over those whose apprehensions are laid asleep, and who never extend their views beyond the gratification of the present moment.

Drunkenness, my lords, is the parent of idleness; for no man can apply himself to the business of his trade, either while he is drinking, or when he is drunk. Part of his time is spent in jollity, and part in imbecility; when he is amidst his companions he is too gay to think of the consequences of neglecting his employment; and when he has overburdened himself with liquor, he is too feeble and too stupid to follow it.

Poverty, my lords, is the offspring of idleness, as idleness of drunkenness; the drunkard's work is little and his expenses are great; and, therefore, he must soon see his family distressed, and his substance reduced to nothing: and surely, my lords, it needs not much sagacity to discover what will be the consequence of poverty produced by vice.

It is not to be expected, my lords, that a man thus corrupted will be warned by the approach of misery, that he will recollect his understanding, and awaken his attention; that he will apply himself to his business with new diligence, endeavour to recover, by an increase of application, what he has lost by inattention, and make the remembrance of his former vices, and the difficulties and diseases which they brought upon him, an incitement to his industry, a confirmation of his resolution, and a support to his virtue.

That this is, indeed, possible, I do not intend to deny; but the bare possibility of an event so desirable, is the utmost that can be admitted; for it can scarcely be expected, that any man should be able to break through all the obstacles that will obstruct his return to honesty and wisdom; his companions will endeavour to continue the infatuating amusements which have so long deluded him; his appetite will assist their solicitations; the desire of present ease by which all mankind are sometimes led aside from virtue, will operate with unusual strength; since, to retrieve his misconduct, he must not only deny himself the pleasure which he has so long indulged, but must bear the full view of his distress from which he will naturally turn aside his eyes. The general difficulty of reformation will incline him to seek for ease by any other means, and to delay that amendment which he knows to be necessary, from hour to hour, and from day to day, till his resolutions are too much weakened to prove of any effect, and his habits confirmed beyond opposition.

At length, necessity, immediate necessity, presses upon him; his family is made clamorous by want, and his calls of nature and of luxury are equally importunate; he has now lost his credit in the world, and none will employ him, because none will trust him, or employment cannot immediately be, perhaps, obtained; because his place has for a long time been supplied by others. And, even if he could obtain a readmission to his former business, his wants are now too great and too pressing to be supplied by the slow methods of regular industry; he must repair his losses by more efficacious expedients, and must find some methods of acquisition, by which the importunity of his creditors may be satisfied.

Industry is now, by long habits of idleness, become almost impracticable; his attention having been long amused by pleasing objects, and dissipated by jollity and merriment, is not readily recalled to a task which is unpleasing, because it is enjoined; and his limbs, enervated by hot and strong liquors, liquors of the most pernicious kind, cannot support the fatigues necessary in the practice of his trade; what was once wholesome exercise is now insupportable fatigue; and he has not now time to habituate himself, by degrees, to that application which he has intermitted, that labour which he has disused, or those arts which he has forgotten.

In this state, my lords, he easily persuades himself that his condition is desperate, that no legal methods will relieve him; and that, therefore, he has nothing to hope but from the efforts of despair. These thoughts are quickly confirmed by his companions, whom the same misconduct has reduced to the same distress, and who have already tried the pleasures of being supported by the labour of others. They do not fail to explain to him the possibility of sudden affluence, and, at worst, to celebrate the satisfaction of short-lived merriment. He, therefore, engages with them in their nocturnal expeditions, an association of wickedness is formed, and that man, who before he tasted this infatuating liquor, contributed every day, by honest labour, to the happiness or convenience of life, who supported his family in decent plenty, and was himself at ease, becomes at once miserable and wicked; is detested as a nuisance by the community, and hunted by the officers of justice; nor has mankind any thing now to wish or hope with regard to him, but that by his speedy destruction, the security of the roads may be restored, and the tranquillity of the night be set free from the alarms of robbery and murder.

These, my lords, are the consequences which necessarily ensue from the use of those pernicious, those infatuating spirits, which have justly alarmed every man whom pleasure or sloth has not wholly engrossed, and who has ever looked upon the various scenes of life with that attention which their importance demands.

Among these, my lords, the clergy have distinguished themselves by a zealous opposition to this growing evil, and have warned their hearers with the warmest concern against the misery and wickedness which must always be the attendants or the followers of drunkenness. One among them [Footnote: Bishop of SARUM.], whose merit has raised him to a seat in this august, assembly, and whose instructions are enforced by the sanctity of his life, has, in a very cogent and pathetical manner, displayed the enormity of this detestable sin, the universality of its prevalence, and the malignity of its effects; and in his discourse on the infirmary of this city, has observed with too much justness, that the lowest of the people are infected with this vice, and that even necessity is become luxurious.

Many other authorities [Footnote: He read the preamble to a former bill, the opinion of the college of physicians.] might be produced, and some others I have now in my hand; but the recital of them would waste the day to no purpose: for surely it is not necessary to show, by a long deduction of authorities, the guilt of drunkenness, or to prove that it weakens the body, or that it depraves the mind, that it makes mankind too feeble for labour, too indolent for application, too stupid for ingenuity, and too daring for the peace of society.

This, surely, my lords, is, therefore, a vice which ought, with the utmost care, to be discouraged by those whose birth or station has conferred upon them the province of watching over the publick happiness; and which, surely, no prospect of present advantage, no arguments of political convenience, will prevail upon this house to promote.

That the natural and evident tendency of this bill is the propagation of drunkenness, cannot be denied, when it is considered that it will increase the temptations to it by making that liquor, which is the favourite of the common people, more common, by multiplying the places at which it is sold, so that none can want an opportunity of yielding to any sudden impulse of his appetite, which will solicit him more powerfully and more incessantly as they are more frequently and more easily gratified.

In defence of a bill like this, my lords, it might be expected, that at least many specious arguments should be offered. It may be justly hoped that no man will rise up in opposition to all laws of heaven and earth, to the wisdom of all legislators, and the experience of every human being, without having formed such a train of arguments as will not easily be disconcerted, or having formed at least such a chain of sophistry as cannot be broken but with difficulty.

And yet, my lords, when I consider what has been offered by all who have hitherto appeared either in publick assemblies, or in private conversation, as advocates for this bill, I can scarcely believe, that they perceive themselves any force in their own arguments; and am inclined to conclude, that they speak only to avoid the imputation of being able to say nothing in defence of their own scheme; that their hope is not to convince by their reasons, but to overpower by their numbers; that they are themselves influenced, not by reason, but by necessity; and that they only encourage luxury, because money is to be raised for the execution of their schemes: and they imagine, that the people will pay more cheerfully for liberty to indulge their appetites, than for any other enjoyment.

The arguments which have been offered, my lords, in vindication of this bill, or at least which I have hitherto heard, are only two, and those two so unhappily associated, that they destroy each other; whatever shall be urged to enforce the second, must in the same proportion invalidate the first; and whoever shall assert, that the first is true, must admit that the second is false.

These positions, my lords, the unlucky positions which are laid down by the defenders of this pernicious bill, are, that it will supply the necessities of the government with a very large standing revenue, on the credit of which, strengthened by the additional security of the sinking fund, a sum will be advanced sufficient to support the expenses of a foreign war; and that at the same time it will lessen the consumption of the liquors from whence this duty is to arise.

By what arts of political ratiocination these propositions are to be reconciled, I am not able to discover. It appears evident, my lords, that large revenues can only be raised by the sale of large quantities; and that larger quantities will in reality be sold, as the price is little or nothing raised, and the venders are greatly increased.

If this will not be the effect, my lords, and if this effect is not expected, why is this bill proposed as sufficient to raise the immense sums which our present exigencies require? Can duties be paid without consumption of the commodity on which they are laid? and is there any other use of spirituous liquors than that of drinking them?

Surely, my lords, it is not expected, that any arguments should be admitted in this house without examination; and yet it might be justly imagined, that this assertion could only be offered in full confidence of an implicit reception, and this tenet be proposed only to those who had resigned their understandings to the dictates of the ministry; for it is implied in this position, that the plenty of a commodity diminishes the demand for it; and that the more freely it is sold, the less it will be bought. It implies, that men will lay voluntary restraints upon themselves, in proportion as they are indulged by their governours; and that all prohibitory laws tend to the promotion of the practices which they condemn; it implies, that a stop can only be put to fornication by increasing the number of prostitutes, and that theft is only to be restrained by leaving your doors open.

I am, for my part, convinced, that drunkards, as well as thieves, are made by opportunity; and that no man will deny himself what he desires, merely because it is allowed him by the laws of his country.

This, my lords, is so evident, that I shall no longer dwell upon the assertion, that the unbounded liberty of retailing spirits will make spirits less used in the nation; but shall examine the second argument, and consider how far it is possible or proper to raise supplies by a tax upon drunkenness.

That large sums will be raised by the bill to which the consent of your lordships is now required, I can readily admit, because the consumption of spirits will certainly be greater, and the licenses taken for retailing them so numerous, that a much lower duty than is proposed will amount yearly to a very large sum; for if the felicity of drunkenness can be more cheaply obtained by buying spirits than ale, when both are to be found at the same place, it is easy to see which will be preferred; this argument, therefore, is irrefragable, and may be urged in favour of the bill without danger of confutation.

But, my lords, it is the business of governours not so much to drain the purses, as to regulate the morals of the people; not only to raise taxes, but to levy them in such a manner as may be least burdensome, and to apply them to purposes which may be most useful; not to raise money by corrupting the nation, that it may be spent in enslaving it.

It has been mentioned by a very celebrated writer, as a rational practice in the exercise of government, to tax such commodities as were abused to the increase of vice, that vice may be discouraged by being made more expensive; and therefore the community in time be set free from it: but the tax which is now proposed, my lords, is of a different kind; it is a tax laid upon vice, indeed, but it is to arise from the licenses granted to wickedness, and its consequences must be the increase of debauchery, not the restraint. It is a tax which will be readily paid, because it will be little felt; and because it will be little felt, it is hoped that multitudes will subject themselves to it.

The act which is now to be repealed, was, indeed, of a very different nature, though perhaps not free from very just objections. It had this advantage at least, that so far as it was put in execution, it obstructed drunkenness; nor has the examination of the officers of excise discovered any imperfection in the law; for it has only failed, because it was timorously or negligently executed. Why it was not vigorously and diligently enforced, I have never yet been able to discover. If the magistrates were threatened by the populace, the necessity of such laws was more plainly proved; for what justifies the severity of coercion but the prevalence of the crime? and what may not be feared from crowds intoxicated with spirits, whose insolence and fury is already such, that they dare to threaten the government by which they are debarred from the use of them?

This, my lords, is a reflection that ought not to be passed slightly over. The nature of our constitution, happy as it is, must be acknowledged to produce this inconvenience, that it inclines the common people to turbulence and sedition; the nature of spirituous liquors is such, that they inflame these dispositions, already too much predominant; and yet the turbulence of the people is made a reason for licensing drunkenness, and allowing, without limitation, the sale of those spirits by which that turbulence must be certainly increased.

It may be, perhaps, urged, (for indeed I know not what else can be decently alleged,) that there is a necessity of raising money, that no other method can be invented, and that, therefore, this ought not to be opposed.

I know, my lords, that ministers generally consider, as the test of each man's loyalty, the readiness with which he concurs with them in their schemes for raising money; and that they think all opposition to these schemes, which are calculated for the support of the government, the effect of a criminal disaffection; that they always think it a sufficient vindication of any law, that it will bring in very large sums; and that they think no measures pernicious, nor laws dangerous, by which the revenue is not impaired.

If government was instituted only to raise money, these ministerial schemes of policy would be without exception; nor could it be denied, that the present ministers show themselves, by this expedient, uncommon masters of their profession. But the end of government is only to promote virtue, of which happiness is the consequence; and, therefore, to support government by propagating vice, is to support it by means which destroy the end for which it was originally established, and for which its continuance is to be desired.

If money, therefore, cannot be raised but by this bill, if the expenses of the government cannot be defrayed but by corrupting the morals of the people, I shall without scruple declare, that money ought not to be raised, nor the designs of the government supported, because the people can suffer nothing from the failure of publick measures, or even from the dissolution of the government itself, which will be equally to be dreaded or avoided with an universal depravity of morals, and a general decay of corporeal vigour. Even the insolence of a foreign conqueror can inflict nothing more severe than the diseases which debauchery produces; nor can any thing be feared from the disorders of anarchy more dangerous or more calamitous, than the madness of sedition, or the miseries which must ensue to each individual from universal wickedness.

Such, my lords, is the expedient by which we are now about to raise the supplies for the present year; and such is the new method of taxation which the sagacity of our ministers has luckily discovered. A foreign war is to be supported by the destruction of our people at home, and the revenue of the government to be improved by the decay of our manufactures. We are to owe henceforward our power to epidemical diseases, our wealth to the declension of our commerce, and our security to riot and to tumult.

There is yet another consideration, my lords, which ought well to be regarded, before we suffer this bill to pass. Many laws are merely experimental, and have been made, not because the legislature thought them indisputably proper, but because no better could at that time be struck out, and because the arguments in their favour appeared stronger than those against them, or because the questions to which they related were so dark and intricate that nothing was to be determined with certainty, and no other method could therefore be followed, but that of making the first attempts at hazard, and correcting these errours, or supplying these defects which might hereafter be discovered by those lights which time should afford.

Though I am far from thinking, my lords, that the question relating to the effects of this law is either doubtful or obscure; though I am certain that the means of reforming the vice which its advocates pretend it is designed to prevent, are obvious and easy; yet I should have hoped, that the projectors of such a scheme would have allowed at least the uncertainty of the salutary effects expected from it, and would, therefore, have made some provision for the repeal of it when it should be found to fail.

But, my lords, our ministers appear to have thought it sufficient to endear them to their country, and immortalize their names, that they have invented a new method of raising money, and seem to have very little regard to any part of the art of government; they will, at least in their own opinion, have deserved applause, if they leave the publick revenue greater, by whatever diminution of the publick virtue.

They have, therefore, my lords, wisely contrived a necessity of continuing this law, whatever may be its consequences, and how fatal soever its abuses; for they not only mortgage the duties upon spirits for the present supply, but substitute them in the place of another security given to the bank by the pot act; and, therefore, since it will not be easy to form another tax of equal produce, we can have very little hope that this will be remitted.

There will be, indeed, only one method of setting the nation free from the calamities which this law will bring upon it; and as I doubt not but that method will at last be followed, it will certainly deserve the attention of your lordships, as the third consideration to which, in our debates on this bill, particular regard ought to be paid.

That the license of drunkenness, and the unlimited consumption of spirituous liquors, will fill the whole kingdom with idleness, diseases, riots, and confusion, cannot be doubted; nor can it be questioned, but that in a very short time the senate will be crowded with petitions from all the trading bodies in the kingdom, for the regulation of the workmen and servants, for the extinction of turbulence and riot, and for the removal of irresistible temptations to idleness and fraud. These representations may be for a time neglected, but must soon or late be heard; the ministers will be obliged to repeal this law, for the same reason that induced them to propose it. Idleness and sickness will impair our manufactures, and the diminution of our trade will lessen the revenue.

They will then, my lords, find that their scheme, with whatever prospects of profit it may now flatter them, was formed with no extensive views; and that it was only the expedient of political avarice, which sacrificed a greater distant advantage to the immediate satisfaction of present gain. They will find, that they have corrupted the people without obtaining any advantage by their crime, and that they must have recourse to some new contrivance by which their own errours may be retrieved.

In this distress, my lords, they can only do what indeed they now seem to design; they can only repeal this act by charging the debt, which it has enabled them to contract, upon the sinking fund, upon that sacred deposit which was for a time supposed unalienable, and from which arose all the hopes that were sometimes formed by the nation, of being delivered from that load of imposts, which it cannot much longer support. They can only give security for this new debt, by disabling us for ever from paying the former.

The bill now before us, my lords, will, therefore, be equally pernicious in its immediate and remoter consequences; it will first corrupt the people, and destroy our trade, and afterwards intercept that fund which is appropriated to the most useful and desirable of all political purposes, the gradual alleviation of the publick debt.

I hope, my lords, that a bill of this portentous kind, a bill big with innumerable mischiefs, and without one beneficial tendency, will be rejected by this house, without the form of commitment; that it will not be the subject of a debate amongst us, whether we shall consent to poison the nation; and that instead of inquiring, whether the measures which are now pursued by the ministry ought to be supported at the expense of virtue, tranquillity, and trade, we should examine, whether they are not such as ought to be opposed for their own sake, even without the consideration of the immense sums which they apparently demand.

I am, indeed, of opinion, that the success of the present schemes will not be of any benefit to the nation, and believe, likewise, that there is very little prospect of success. I am, at least, convinced, that no advantage can countervail the mischiefs of this detestable bill; which, therefore, I shall steadily oppose, though I have already dwelt upon this subject perhaps too long; yet as I speak only from an unprejudiced regard to the publick, I hope, if any new arguments shall be attempted, that I shall be allowed the liberty of making a reply.

Lord BATHURST replied to the following purport:—My lords, I doubt not but the noble lord has delivered, on this occasion, his real sentiments, and that, in his opinion, the happiness of our country, the regard which ought always to be paid to the promotion of virtue, require that this bill should be rejected. I am far from suspecting, that such an appearance of zeal can conceal any private views, or that such pathetick exclamations can proceed but from a mind really affected with honest anxiety.

This anxiety, my lords, I shall endeavour to dissipate before it has been communicated to others; for I think it no less the duty of every man who approves the publick measures, to vindicate them from misrepresentation, than of him to whom they appear pernicious or dangerous, to warn his fellow-subjects of that danger.

I, my lords, am one of those who are convinced that the bill now before us, which has been censured as fundamentally wrong, is in reality fundamentally right; that the end which is proposed by it is just, and the means which are prescribed in it will accomplish the purpose for which they were contrived.

The end of this bill, my lords, is to diminish the consumption of distilled spirits, to restrain the populace of these kingdoms from a liquor which, when used in excess, has a malignity to the last degree dangerous, which at once inebriates and poisons, impairs the force of the understanding, and destroys the vigour of the body; and to attain this, I think it absolutely right to lay a tax upon these liquors.

Of the vice of drunkenness, my lords, no man has a stronger abhorrence than myself; of the pernicious consequences of these liquors, which are now chiefly used by the common people, no man is more fully convinced, and therefore, none can more zealously wish that drunkenness may be suppressed, and distilled spirits withheld from the people.

The disorders mentioned by the noble lord, are undoubtedly the consequences of the present use of these liquors, but these are not its worst effects. The offenders against the law, may by the law be sometimes reclaimed, and at other times cutoff; nor can these practices, however injurious to particular persons, in any great degree impair the general happiness. The worst effects, therefore, of the use of spirits, are that idleness and extravagance which it has introduced among the common people, by which our commerce must be obstructed, and our present riches and plenty every day diminished.

This pernicious practice, my lords, is disseminated farther than could be reasonably believed by those whose interest has not incited, or curiosity induced them to inquire into the practice of the different classes of men. It is well known, that the farmers have been hitherto distinguished by the virtues of frugality, temperance, and industry; that they laboured hard, and spent little; and were, therefore, justly considered as an innocent and useful part of the community, whose employment and parsimony preserved them in a great measure from the general infection of vice which spread its influence among the traders and men of estates.

But even this abstemious class of men, my lords, have of late relaxed their frugality, and suffered themselves to be tempted by this infatuating liquor; nor is any thing now more common than to find it in those houses in which ale, a few years ago, was the highest pitch of luxury to which they aspired, and to see those hours wasted in intoxicating entertainments, which were formerly dedicated wholly to the care of their farms, and the improvement of their fortunes.

Thus, my lords, it appears, that the corruption is become universal, and, therefore, that some remedy ought to be attempted; nor can I conceive any measures more consistent with justice, or more likely to produce the end intended by them, than those which are now offered to your consideration, by which the liquor will be made dearer, too dear to be lavishly drank by those who are in most danger of using it to excess; and the number of those who retail it will be diminished by the necessity of taking a license, and of renewing them every year at the same expense.

The inefficacy, my lords, of violent methods, and the impossibility of a total deprivation of any enjoyment which the people have by custom made familiar and dear to them, sufficiently appears from the event of the law which is now to be repealed. It is well known, that by that law the use of spirituous liquors was prohibited to the common people; that retailers were deterred from vending them by the utmost encouragement that could be given to informers; and that discoveries were incited by every art that could be practised, and offenders punished with the utmost rigour.

Yet what was the effect, my lords, of all this diligence and vigour? A general panick suppressed, for a few weeks, the practice of selling the prohibited liquors; but, in a very short time, necessity forced some, who had nothing to lose, to return to their former trade; these were suffered sometimes to escape, because nothing was to be gained by informing against them, and others were encouraged by their example to imitate them, though with more secrecy and caution; of those, indeed, many were punished, but many more escaped, and such as were fined often found the profit greater than the loss.

The prospect of raising money by detecting their practices, incited many to turn information into a trade; and the facility with which the crime was to be proved, encouraged some to gratify their malice by perjury, and others their avarice; so that the multitude of informations became a publick grievance, and the magistrates themselves complained that the law was not to be executed.

The perjuries of informers were now so flagrant and common, that the people thought all informations malicious; or, at least, thinking themselves oppressed by the law, they looked upon every man that promoted its execution, as their enemy; and, therefore, now began to declare war against informers, many of whom they treated with great cruelty, and some they murdered in the streets.

By their obstinacy they at last wearied the magistrates, and by their violence they intimidated those who might be inclined to make discoveries; so that the law, however just might be the intention with which it was enacted, or however seasonable the methods prescribed by it, has been now for some years totally disused; nor has any one been punished for the violation of it, because no man has dared to offer informations. Even the vigilance of the magistrates has been obliged to connive at these offences, nor has any man been found willing to engage in a task, at once odious and endless, or to punish offences which every day multiplied, and of which the whole body of the common people, a body very formidable when united, was universally engaged.

The practice, therefore, of vending and of drinking distilled spirits, has prevailed for some time without opposition; nor can any man enter a tavern or an alehouse, in which they will be denied him, or walk along the streets without being incited to drink them at every corner; they have been sold for several years, with no less openness and security than any other commodity; and whoever walks in this great city, will find his way very frequently obstructed by those who are selling these pernicious liquors to the greedy populace, or by those who have drank them till they are unable to move.

But the strongest proof of the inefficacy of the late law, and consequently of the necessity of another, which may not be so easily eluded or so violently resisted, is given by the papers which lie upon the table. From these it appears that the quantity of spirits distilled has increased from year to year to the present time; and, therefore, that drunkenness is become more prevalent, and the reasons for repressing it more urgent than ever before.

Let us, therefore, calmly consider, my lords, what can in this exigence be done; that the people should be allowed to poison themselves and their posterity without restraint, is certainly not the intent of any good man; and therefore we are now to consider how it may be prevented. That the people are infected with the vice of drunkenness, that they debauch themselves chiefly with spirituous liquors, and that those liquors are in a high degree pernicious, is confessed both by those who oppose the bill, and those who defend it; but with this advantage on the part of those that defend it, that they only propose a probable method of reforming the abuses which they deplore. I know that the warm resentment which some lords have on former occasions expressed against the disorders which distilled liquors are supposed to produce, may naturally incline them to wish that they were totally prohibited, and that this liquid fire, as it has been termed, were to be extinguished for ever.

Whether such wishes are not more ardent than rational; whether their zeal against the abuse of things, indifferent in themselves, has not, as has often happened in other cases, hurried them into an indiscreet censure of the lawful use, I shall not now inquire; because it is superfluous to dispute about the propriety of measures, of which the possibility may be justly questioned.

This last act, my lords, was of this kind; the duties established by it were so high that they wholly debarred the lower classes of the, people from the liquor on which they were laid; and, therefore, it was found by a very short experience, that it was impossible to preserve it from violation; that there would be no end of punishing those who offended against it; and that severity produced rather compassion than terrour. Those who have suffered the penalties were considered as persons under unjust persecution, whom every one was obliged by the ties of humanity to encourage, reward, and protect; and those who informed against them, or encouraged informations, were detested, as the oppressors of the people. The law had, indeed, this effect, that it debarred, at least for a short time, all those from retailing spirits who lived in reputation; and, therefore, encouraged others to vend them in private places, where they were more likely to be drank to excess.

Having, therefore, made trial of violent and severe methods, and had an opportunity of obtaining a full conviction of their inefficacy, it is surely proper to profit by our experience, by that experience which shows us that the use of distilled liquors, under its present discouragements, has every year increased; and, therefore, proves at once the unprofitableness of the law now in force, and the necessity of some other by which the same purposes may be more certainly promoted.

The reformation of a vice so prevalent must be slow and gradual; for it is not to be hoped, that the whole bulk of the people will at once be divested of their habits; and, therefore, it will be rational to endeavour, not wholly to debar them from any thing in which, however absurdly, they place their happiness, but to make the attainment of it more and more difficult, that they may insensibly remit their ardour, and cease from their pursuit.

This, my lords, is proposed in the present bill, which, by the duties which are to be laid upon distilled spirits, will raise the price a third part, and as it is reasonable to expect, hinder a third part of the consumption; for it is observed, that those who drink them set no limits to their excesses, but indulge their appetites to the utmost of their power; if he, therefore, who used to spend threepence a-day in spirits, can now have no more than could formerly be bought for twopence, he must necessarily content himself with only two thirds of the quantity which he has hitherto drank; and, therefore, must by force, though, perhaps, not by inclination, be less intemperate.

It is not to be doubted, my lords, but that spirits will, by this additional duty, be made one third part dearer; for it has been hitherto observed, that retailers levy upon the buyer twice the duty that is paid to the government, as is every day apparent in other commodities; so that the yearly quantity of spirits which is usually distilled will cost five hundred thousand pounds more than before, a tax which, I suppose, those who are charged with this kind of debauchery will not be supposed able to pay, and which yet must be paid by them, unless they will be content with a less quantity.

That spirits will now be sold in every publick-house, of whatever denomination, has been, I believe, justly asserted; but the assertion has not been properly urged as an argument against the bill. One of the circumstances which has contributed to the enormous abuse of these liquors, has been the practice of retailing them in obscure places, by persons without character and without money; who, therefore, neither feared penalties nor infamy, and offended against law and decency with equal security. But when the cheapness of licenses shall make it convenient for every man that pleases to retail spirits in a publick manner, they will be generally drank in houses visited by publick officers, observed by the neighbouring inhabitants, and frequented by persons of morals and civility, who will always endeavour to restrain all enormous excesses, and oblige the masters of the houses to pay some regard to the laws. Those whose appetites are too importunate to be restrained, may now gratify them without being tempted to enter into houses of infamy, or mingling with beggars, or thieves, or 'profligates; and, therefore, though the use of spirits should continue the same, its consequences will be less fatal, since they may be had without the necessity of associating with wickedness.

But, my lords, it is not improbable, that by this bill the number of retailers, at least in this city, where they are most pernicious, may be lessened. It is well known, that the reason for which they are sold in cellars, and in the streets, is the danger of retailing them in other places; and that if they were generally sold by those who could procure the best of each sort, these petty traders would be immediately undone; for it is reasonable to imagine, my lords, that they buy the cheapest liquors, and sell them at the dearest rate.

When, therefore, reputable houses shall be opened for the sale of these liquors, decency will restrain some, and prudence will hinder others from endangering their health by purchasing those liquors which are offered in the street, and from hazarding their morals, or perhaps their lives, by drinking to excess in obscure places.

It is likewise to be remembered, my lords, that many of those who now poison their countrymen with petty shops of debauchery, are not able to purchase a license, even at the cheap rate at which it is now proposed, and that therefore they will be restrained from their trade by a legal inability; for it is not, my lords, to be imagined, that they will be defended with equal zeal by the populace, when the liquors may be had without their assistance, nor will information be equally infamous, when it is not the act only of profligates, who pursue the practice of it as a trade, but of the proper officers of every place, incited by the lawful venders of the same commodities, or of the venders themselves, who will now be numerous enough to protect each other, and whom their common interest will incite against clandestine dealers.

The price of licenses, therefore, appears to me very happily adjusted: had it been greater there would not have been a sufficient number of lawful retailers to put a stop to clandestine sellers; and if it was lower, every petty dealer in this commodity might, by pretending to keep an alehouse, continue the practice of affording an harbour to thieves, and of propagating debauchery.

Thus, my lords, it appears to me that the bill will lessen the consumption of these destructive spirits, certainly in a great degree, by raising the price, and probably by transferring the trade of selling them into more reputable hands. What more can be done by human care or industry I do not conceive. To prohibit the use of them is impossible, to raise the price of them to the same height with that of foreign spirits, is, indeed, practicable, but surely at this time no eligible method; for so general is this kind of debauchery, that no degree of expense would entirely suppress it; and as foreign spirits, if they were to be sold at the same price, would always be preferred to our own, we should only send into other nations that money which now circulates among ourselves, and impoverish the people without reforming them.

The regulation provided by the bill before us is, therefore, in my opinion, the most likely method for recovering the ancient industry and sobriety of the common people; and, my lords, I shall approve it, till experience has shown it to be defective. I shall approve it, not with a view of obtaining or securing the favour of any of those who may be thought to interest themselves in its success, but because I find some new law for this purpose indispensably necessary, and believe that no better can be contrived. We are now, my lords, to contend with the passions of all the common people. We are endeavouring to reform a vice almost universal; a vice which, however destructive, is now no longer reproachful. We have tried the force of violent methods and found them unsuccessful; we are now, therefore, to treat the vulgar as children, with a kind of artful indulgence, and to take from them secretly, and by degrees, what cannot be wholly denied them, without exasperating them almost to rebellion. This is the first attempt, and by this, if one third of the consumption be diminished, we may next year double the duty, and, by a new augmentation of the price, take away another third, and what will then be drank, will, perhaps, by the strictest moralists, be allowed to be rather beneficial than hurtful. By this gradual procedure, we shall give those, who have accustomed themselves to this liquor, time to reclaim their appetites, and those that live by distilling, opportunities of engaging in some other employment; we shall remove the distemper of the publick, without any painful remedies, and shall reform the people insensibly, without exasperating or persecuting them.

The bishop of OXFORD spoke to the following purport:—My lords, as I am not yet convinced of the expedience of the bill now before us, nor can discover any reason for believing that the advantages will countervail the mischiefs which it will produce, I think it my duty to declare, that I shall oppose it, as destructive to virtue, and contrary to the inviolable rules of religion.

It appears to me, my lords, that the liberty of selling liquors, which are allowed to be equally injurious to health and virtue, will by this law become general and boundless; and I can discover no reason for doubting that the purchasers will be multiplied by increasing the numbers of the venders, and the increase of the sale of distilled spirits, and the propagation of all kinds of wickedness are the same; I must conclude that bill to be destructive to the publick by which the sale of spirits will be increased.

It has been urged that other more vigorous methods have been tried, and that they are now to be laid aside, because experience has shown them to be ineffectual, because the people unanimously asserted the privilege of debauchery, opposed the execution of justice, and pursued those with the utmost malice that offered informations.

I should think, my lords, that government approaching to its dissolution, that was reduced to submit its decrees to their judgment who are chiefly accused of the abuse of these liquors; for surely, when the lowest, the most corrupt part of the people, have obtained such a degree of influence as to dictate to the legislature those laws by which they expect to be governed, all subordination is at an end.

This, my lords, I hope I shall never see the state of my own country: I hope I shall never see the government without authority to enforce obedience to the laws, nor have I, indeed, seen any such weakness on this occasion: the opposition that was made, and the discontent that was excited, were no greater than might be reasonably expected, when the vice which was to be reformed was so enormously predominant; nor was the effect of the law less than any one who foresaw such opposition might reasonably have conceived.

In this city alone there were, before the commencement of that law, fifteen hundred large shops, in which no other trade was carried on than that of retailing these pernicious liquors; in which no temptation to debauchery was forgotten; and, what cannot be mentioned without horrour, back rooms and secret places were contrived for receptacles of those who had drank till they had lost their reason and their limbs; there they were crowded together till they recovered strength sufficient to go away or drink more.

These pestilential shops, these storehouses of mischief, will, upon the encouragement which this law will give them, be set open again; new invitations will be hung out to catch the eyes of passengers, who will again be enticed with promises of being made drunk for a penny, and that universal debauchery and astonishing licentiousness which gave occasion to the former act will return upon us.

It is to little purpose, my lords, that the licenses for selling distilled spirits are to be granted only to those who profess to keep houses for the sale of other liquors, since nothing will be more easy than to elude this part of the law. Whoever is inclined to open a shop for the retail of spirits, may take a license for selling ale; and the sale of one barrel of more innocent liquors in a year will entitle to dispense poison with impunity, and to contribute without control to the corruption of mankind.

It is confessed, that since this law was made, these liquors, have been sold only at corners of the streets in petty shops, and in private cellars; and, therefore, it must be allowed, that if the consumption has increased, it, has, at least, increased less than if the free and open sale had been permitted; for the necessity of secrecy is always a restraint, and every restraint must in some degree obstruct any practice, since those that follow it under restraint would pursue it more vigorously, if that restraint were taken away; and those that are now totally hindered, would, at least, be more strongly tempted by greater liberty; and where the temptation is more powerful, more will probably be overcome by it.

But, my lords, however the law may in this crowded city have been eluded and defied, however drunkenness may here have been protected by the insolence which it produces, and crimes have been sheltered by the multitudes of offenders, I am informed, that in parts less populous, the efficacy of the late act never was denied; and that it has in many parts rescued the people from the miseries of debauchery, and only failed in others by the negligence of those to whom the execution of it was committed.

Negligently and faintly as it was executed, it did in effect hinder many from pursuing this destructive kind of trade; and even in the metropolis itself, almost a total stop was for a time put to the use of spirits; and had the magistrates performed their duty with steadiness and resolution, it is probable, that no plea would have arisen in favour of this bill from the inefficacy of the last.

I cannot, indeed, deny, that the multitude of false informers furnished the magistrates with a very specious pretence for relaxing their vigilance; but it was only, my lords, a specious pretence, not a warrantable reason; for the same diligence should have been used to punish false informers as clandestine retailers; the traders in poison and in perjury should have been both pursued with incessant vigour, the sword of justice should have been drawn against them, nor should it have been laid aside, till either species of wickedness had been exterminated.

In the execution of this, as of other penal laws, my lords, it will be always possible for the judge to be misled by false testimonies; and, therefore, the argument which false informations furnish may be used against every other law, where information is encouraged. Yet, my lords, it has been long the practice of this nation to incite criminals to detect each other; and when any enormous crime is committed, to proclaim at once pardon and rewards to him that shall discover his accomplices. This, my lords, is an apparent temptation to perjury; and yet no inconvenieucies have arisen from it, that can reasonably induce us to lay it aside.

Perjury may in the execution of this law be detected by the same means as on other occasions; and whenever it is detected, ought to be rigorously punished; and I doubt not but in a short time the difficulties and inconveniencies which are asserted in the preamble of this bill to have attended the putting the late act in execution, would speedily have vanished; the number of delinquents would have been every day lessened, and the virtue and industry of the nation would have been restored.

It is not, indeed, asserted, that the execution of the late act was impossible, but that it was attended with difficulties; and when, my lords, was any design of great importance effected without difficulties? It is difficult, without doubt, to restrain a nation from vice; and to reform a nation already corrupted, is still more difficult. But as both, however difficult, are necessary, it is the duty of government to endeavour them, till it shall appear that no endeavours can succeed.

For my part, my lords, I am not easily persuaded to believe that remissness will succeed, where assiduity has failed; and, therefore, if it be true, as is supposed in the preamble, that the former act was ineffectual by any defects in itself, I cannot conceive that this will operate with greater force. I cannot imagine that appetites will be weakened by lessening the danger of gratifying them, or that men who will break down the fences of the law to possess themselves of what long habits have, in their opinion, made necessary to them, will neglect it, merely because it is laid in their way.

With regard to this act, my lords, it is to be inquired, whether it is likely to be executed with more diligence than the former, and whether the same obstacles may not equally obstruct the execution of both.

The great difficulty of the former method, a method certainly in itself reasonable and efficacious, arose from the necessity of receiving informations from the meanest and most profligate of the people, who were often tempted to lay hold of the opportunities which that law put into their hands, of relieving their wants, or gratifying their resentment; and very frequently intimidated the innocent by threats of accusations, which were not easily to be confuted. They were, therefore, equally dangerous to those that obeyed the act, and to those that disregarded it; for they sometimes put their threats in execution, and raised prosecutions against those who had committed no other crime than that of refusing to bribe them to silence.

An abuse so notorious, my lords, produced a general detestation of all informers, or, at least, concurred with other causes to produce it; and that detestation became so prevalent in the minds of the populace, that at last it became to the highest degree dangerous to attempt the conviction of those, who, in the most open and contemptuous manner, every day violated the laws of their country; and in time the retailers trusting to the protection of the people, laid aside all cautions, at least in this great city, and prosecuted their former practice with the utmost security.

This, my lords, was the chief difficulty and inconvenience hitherto discovered in the law which is now to be repealed. Thus was its execution obstructed, and the provisions enacted by it made ineffectual. This defect, therefore, ought to be chiefly regarded in any new regulations. But what securities, my lords, are provided against the same evil in the bill before us? Or why should we imagine that this law will be executed with less opposition than the last? The informers will undoubtedly be of the same class as before; they are still to be incited by a reward; and, therefore, it may be reasonably feared, that they will act upon the same motives, and be persecuted with the same fury.

To obviate this inconvenience appears to me very easy, by converting the duty upon licenses to a large duty upon the liquors to be paid by the distiller; the payment of which will be carefully exacted by proper officers, who, though their employment is not very reputable, pursue it at least without any personal danger; and who inform their superiours of any attempts to defraud the revenue, without being censured as officious or revengeful, and, therefore, are without any terrours to hinder them from their duty.

It has been asserted, indeed, that the price of a license is now so small, that none who are inclined to deal in spirits will neglect to secure themselves from punishment and vexation by procuring it; and that no man will subject himself to the malice of a profligate, by carrying on an illicit trade, which the annual expense of twenty shillings will make legal.

If this argument be just, my lords, and to the greatest part of this assembly I believe it will appear very plausible, how will this law lessen the consumption of distilled liquors? It is confessed that it will hinder nobody from selling them; and it has been found, by experience, that nothing can restrain the people from buying them, but such laws as hinder them from being sold.

This plea, therefore, by removing an objection to a particular clause, will strengthen the great argument against the tenour of the bill, that instead of lessening, it will increase the consumption of those liquors which are allowed to be destructive to the people, to enfeeble the body, and to vitiate the mind, and, consequently, to impair the strength and commerce of the nation, and to destroy the happiness and security of life.

That the cheapness of licenses will induce multitudes to buy them, may be expected; but it cannot be hoped that every one will cease to sell spirits without a license; for they, are, as I am informed, offered every hour in the streets by those to whom twenty shillings make a very large sum, and who, therefore, will not, or cannot purchase a license. These ought, undoubtedly, to be detected and punished; but there is no provision made for discovering them, but what has been found already to be ineffectual.

It appears, therefore, my lords, that this bill will increase the number of lawful retailers, without diminishing that of private dealers; so that the opportunities of debauchery will be multiplied, in proportion to the numbers who shall take licenses.

There is another fallacy by which the duties upon distilled liquors have been hitherto avoided, and which will still make this bill equally useless as the former, for the ends which are to be promoted by it.

It is expected, my lords, by those who purchase spirits from the distillers, that they should be of a certain degree of strength, which they call proof: if they are of a lower degree, their price is diminished; and if of a higher, it is raised proportionally; because if the spirits exceed the degree of strength required, they may be mixed with other liquors of little value, and still be sold to the drinker at the common price.

It is, therefore, the practice of the distillers to give their spirits thrice the degree of strength required, by which contrivance, though they pay only the duty of one pint, they sell their liquors at the price of three; because it may be increased to thrice the quantity distilled, and yet retain sufficient strength to promote the purposes of wickedness.

This practice, my lords, should be likewise obviated; for while one gallon, after having paid the present low duty which is laid upon it, may be multiplied to three, the additional price will, in the small quantities which are usually demanded, become imperceptible.

But to show yet farther the inefficacy of this bill, let us suppose, what will not be found by experience, that a halfpenny is added to the price of every pint, it will yet be very practicable to revel in drunkenness for a penny, since a very small quantity of these hateful liquors is sufficient to intoxicate those who have not been habituated to the use of them; who though their reformation is, undoubtedly, to be desired, do not so much demand the care of the legislature, as those who are yet untainted with this pernicious practice, and who may, perhaps, by the frequency of temptation, and the prevalence of example, be induced in time to taste these execrable liquors, and perish in their first essays of debauchery. For such is the quality of these spirits, that they are sometimes fatal to those who indiscreetly venture upon them without caution, and whose stomachs have not been prepared for large draughts, by proper gradations of intemperance; a single spoonful has been found sufficient to hurry two children to the grave.

It is, therefore, my opinion, that those whose stations and employments make it their duty to superintend the conduct of their fellow-subjects, ought to contrive some other law on this occasion; ought to endeavour to rescue the common people from the infatuation which is become general amongst them, and to withhold from them the means of wickedness. That instead of complying with their prejudices, and flattering their appetites, they should exert that authority with which they are intrusted in a steady and resolute opposition to predominant vices; and without having recourse to gentle arts, and temporizing expedients, snatch out of their hands at once those instruments which are only of use for criminal purposes, and take from their mouths that draught with which, however delicious it may seem, they poison at once themselves and their posterity.

The only argument which can be offered in defence of this bill, is the necessity of supporting the expenses of the war, and the difficulty of raising money by any other method. The necessity of the war, my lords, I am not about to call in question, nor is it very consistent with my character to examine the method in which it has been carried on; but this I can boldly assert, that however just, however necessary, however prudently prosecuted, and however successfully concluded, it can produce no advantages equivalent to the national sobriety and industry, and am certain that no publick advantage ought to be purchased at the expense of publick virtue.

But, my lords, I hope we are not yet reduced to the unhappy choice either of corrupting our people, or submitting to our enemies; nor do I doubt but that supplies may be obtained by methods less pernicious to the publick, and that funds sufficient for the present occasion may be established without a legal establishment of drunkenness.

I hope, my lords, we shall not suffer our endeavours to be baffled by the obstinacy of drunkards; and that we shall not desist from endeavouring the recovery of the nation from this hateful vice, because our first attempt has failed, since it failed only by the negligence or the cowardice of those whose duty required them to promote the execution of a just law.

Against the bill now before us I have thought it my duty to declare, as it appears to me opposite to every principle of virtue, and every just purpose of government; and therefore, though I have engrossed so much of your time in speaking on a subject with which it cannot reasonably be expected that I should be well acquainted, I hope I shall easily be pardoned by your lordships, since I have no private views either of interest or resentment to promote, and have spoken only what my conscience dictates, and my duty requires.

Lord TALBOT then rose up, and spoke to the following purport:—My lords, I am ashamed that there should be any necessity of opposing in this assembly a bill like that which is now before us; a bill crowded with absurdities, which no strength of eloquence can exaggerate, nor any force of reason make more evident.

This bill, my lords, is, however, the first proof that our new ministers have given of their capacity for the task which they have undertaken; this is a specimen of their sagacity, and is designed by them as an instance of the gentle methods by which the expenses of the government are hereafter to be levied upon the people. The nation shall no longer see its manufactures subjected to imposts, nor the fruits of industry taken from the laborious artificer; but drunkenness shall hereafter supply what has hitherto been paid by diligence and traffick; the restraints of vice shall be taken away, the barriers of virtue and religion broken, and an universal licentiousness shall overspread the land, that the schemes of the ministry may be executed.

What are the projects, my lords, that are to be pursued by such means, it is not my present purpose to inquire: it is not necessary to add any aggravations to the present charge, or to examine what has been the former conduct, or what will be the future actions of men who lie open by their present proposal to the most atrocious accusations; who are publickly endeavouring the propagation of the most pernicious of all vices, who are laying poison in the way of their countrymen, poison by which not only the body, but the mind is contaminated; who are attempting to establish by a law a practice productive of all the miseries to which human nature is incident; a practice which will at once disperse diseases and sedition, and promote beggary and rebellion.

This, my lords, is the expedient by which the acuteness of our ministry proposes to raise the supplies of the present year, and by this they hope to convince the nation that they are qualified for the high trusts to which they are advanced; and that they owe their exaltation only to the superiority of their abilities, the extent of their knowledge, and the maturity of their experience: by this masterstroke of policy they hope to lay for their authority a firm and durable foundation, and to possess themselves, by this happy contrivance, at once of the confidence of the crown, and the affections of the people.

But, my lords, I am so little convinced of their abilities, that amidst all the exultation which this new scheme produces, I will venture to predict the decline of their influence, and to fix the period of their greatness; for I am persuaded, that notwithstanding the readiness with which they have hitherto sacrificed the interest of their country, notwithstanding the desperate precipitation with which they have blindly engaged in the most dangerous measures, they will not be able to continue a year in their present stations.

The bill now under our consideration, my lords, will undoubtedly make all those their enemies whom it does not corrupt; for what can be expected from it, but universal disorder and boundless wickedness? wickedness made insolent by the protection of the law, and disorder promoted by all those whose wealth is increased by the increase of the revenues of the government.

Had it been urged, my lords, in defence of this bill, that it was necessary to raise money, and that money could only be raised by increasing the consumption of distilled spirits, it would have been apparent that it was well calculated to promote the purposes intended; but, surely, to assert that it will obstruct the use of these liquors, is to discover a degree either of ignorance, of effrontery, or of folly, by which few statesmen have been, hitherto, distinguished.

If we receive, without examination, the estimates which have been laid down, and allow the duty to rise as high as those by whom it is projected have ventured to assert, the price of these liquors can be raised but a halfpenny a pint; and there are few, even among the lowest of those who indulge themselves in this fatal luxury, whom the want of a single halfpenny can often debar from it.

And though these accurate calculators should insist that men may sometimes be compelled to sobriety by this addition to the expense of being drunk, yet how far will this restraint be found from being equivalent to the new temptation, which will be thrown into the way of thousands, yet uncorrupted by the multitude of new shops that will be opened for the distribution of poison, 'and the security which debauchery will obtain from the countenance of the legislature.

What will be the consequences of any encouragement given to a vice already almost irresistibly prevalent, I cannot determine; but surely nothing is too dismal to be expected from universal drunkenness, from a general depravity of all the most useful part of mankind, from an epidemical fury of debauchery, and an unbounded exemption from restraint.

How little any encouragement is wanting to promote the consumption of those execrable liquors, how much it concerns every man who has been informed of their quality, and who has seen their consequences, to oppose the use of them with his utmost influence, appears from the enormous quantity which the stills of this nation annually produce.

The number of gallons which appears from the accounts on the table to have been consumed last year, is seven millions; 'a quantity sufficient to-destroy the health, interrupt the labour, and deprave the morals of a very great part of the nation; a quantity which, if it be suffered to continue undiminished, will, even without any legal encouragement of its use, in a short time destroy the happiness of the publick; and by impairing the strength, and lessening the number of manufacturers and labourers, introduce poverty and famine.

Instead, therefore, of promoting a practice so evidently detrimental to society, let us oppose it with the most vigorous efforts; let us begin our opposition by rejecting this bill, and then consider whether the execution of the former law shall be—enforced, or whether another more efficacious can be formed.

Lord CHOLMONDELEY then spoke to the following effect:—My lords, though it is undoubtedly the right of every person in this assembly to utter his sentiments with freedom, yet surely decency ought to restrain us from virulent, and justice from undeserved reproaches; we ought not to censure any conduct with more severity than it deserves, nor condemn any man for practices of which he is innocent.

This rule, which will not, I suppose, be controverted, has not, in my opinion, been very carefully observed in this debate; for surely nothing is more unjust than to assert or insinuate that the government has looked idly upon the advances of debauchery, or has suffered drunkenness to prevail without opposition.

Of the care with which this licentiousness has been opposed, no other proof can be required, than the laws which have, in the present reign, been made against it. Soon after the succession of his majesty, the use of compound spirits was prohibited; but this law being eluded by substituting liquors, so drawn as not to be included in the statutes, it was soon after repealed; and the people were, for a time, indeed, suffered to drink distilled liquors without restraint, because a proper method of restraining them was not easily to be found.

How-difficult it was to contrive means by which this vice might safely be prevented, appeared more plainly soon afterwards, when the outrageous licentiousness of the populace made it necessary to contrive some new law by which the use of that liquor might be prohibited, to which so much insolence, idleness, and dissoluteness were imputed.

The law which it is now proposed to repeal, was then zealously promoted by those who were then most distinguished for their virtue and their prudence. Every man who had any regard for the happiness of the publick, was alarmed at the inundation of licentiousness that overflowed this city, and began to spread itself to the remoter parts of the kingdom; and it was determined that nothing but a total. prohibition of distilled liquors could preserve the peace, and restore the virtue of the nation.

A law was therefore made, which prohibited the retail of distilled spirits; and it was expected that the people would immediately return to the use of more innocent and healthful liquors, and that the new art of sudden intoxication would be wholly suppressed; but with how little knowledge of the dispositions of the nation this hope was formed, the event quickly discovered; for no sooner was the darling liquor withheld, than a general murmur was raised over all parts of this great city; and all the lower orders of the people testified their discontent in the most open manner. Multitudes were immediately tempted by the prospect of uncommon gain, to retail the prohibited liquors; of these many were detected, and many punished; and the trade of information was so lucrative, and so closely followed, that there was no doubt but the law would produce the effect expected from it, and that the most obstinate retailers would, by repeated prosecutions, be discouraged from the practice.

But no sooner did the people find their favourite gratification in real danger, than they unanimously engaged in its defence; they discovered that without informers, the new law was without operation; and the informers were, therefore, persecuted by them without mercy, and without remission, till at last no man would venture to provoke the resentment of the populace for the reward to which information entitled him.

Thus, my lords, one law has been eluded by artifice, and another defeated by violence; the practice of drinking spirits, however pernicious, still continued to prevail; the magistrates could not punish a crime of which they were not informed, and they could obtain no information of a practice vindicated by the populace.

It is not, indeed, to be allowed that the custom of drinking distilled liquors, however prevalent, has yet arisen to the height at which the noble lord, who spoke last, seems to imagine it arrived; for though it is undoubtedly true that seven millions of gallons are annually distilled, it is not to be imagined that the whole quantity is wasted in debauchery! some is, exhausted by the necessities, and some by the conveniencies of life; a great part is exported to other countries, and the distillery promotes many other purposes than those of riot and licentiousness.

That too much, however, is used by the common people, and that intemperance has for some time prevailed in a degree unknown to any former age, cannot be denied; and, therefore, some means of reclaiming them ought to be tried. What then, my lords, is to be done? The first law was eluded, the second is defied: the first was executed, but produced no restraint; the second produces a restraint so violent, that it cannot be executed.

That the present law is ineffectual, cannot be doubted by those who assert, that the quantity of spirits distilled has every year increased; and there seems to remain, therefore, no other choice than that of suffering this increase to proceed, or to endeavour to prevent it by new regulations. The present law ought to be repealed, because it is useless; but surely some other ought to supply its place, which may be more easily enforced, and less violently opposed.

The bill now before us, my lords, will, in my opinion, answer all the purposes of the last, without noise, and without disturbance. By lessening the price of licenses, it will put a stop to clandestine retail; and by raising that of the liquors, it will hinder the common people from drinking them in their usual excess. Those who have hitherto lost their reason and limbs twice a-day by their drunkenness, will not be able, under the intended regulations, to commit the same crime twice in a week; and as the temptation of cheapness will be taken away, it may be hoped that the next generation will not fall into the same vice.

Since, therefore, my lords, the arguments in favour of this bill are at least plausible and specious; since the design appears to be worthy of this assembly, and the method proposed such as may be hoped to produce the effects which the projectors of the bill desire; and since the opinions of this house are at least divided, and the other has passed it almost without opposition, we ought at least, in my opinion, not to reject it with precipitation, but to refer it to a committee, that it may be fully considered; and those objections which cannot be answered, removed by proper alterations.

Lord CARTERET spoke to the following purport:—My lords, the bill now under our consideration appears to me to deserve a much more close regard than seems to have been paid to it in the other house, through which it was hurried with the utmost precipitation, and where it was passed, almost without the formality of a debate; nor can I think that earnestness with which some lords seem inclined to press it forward here, consistent with the importance of the consequences which may be with great reason expected from it,

It has been urged, that where so great a number have formed expectations of a national benefit from any bill, so much deference, at least, is due to their judgment, as that the bill should be considered in a committee. This, my lords, I admit to be in other cases a just and reasonable demand, and will readily allow that the proposal not only of a considerable number, but even of any single lord, ought to be fully examined, and regularly debated, according to the usual forms of this assembly. But in the present case, my lords, and in all cases like the present, this demand is improper, because it is useless; and it is useless, because we can do now all that we can do hereafter in a committee. For the bill before us is a money bill, which, according to the present opinion of the commons, we have no right to amend; and which, therefore, we have no need of considering in a committee, since the event of all our deliberations must be, that we are either to reject or pass it in its present state. For I suppose no lord will think this a proper time to enter into a controversy with the commons for the revival of those privileges to which I believe we have a right, and such a controversy the least attempt to amend a money bill will certainly produce.

To desire, therefore, my lords, that this bill may be considered in a committee, is only to desire that it may gain one step without opposition; that it may proceed through the forms of the house by stealth, and that the consideration of it maybe delayed till the exigencies of the government shall be so great as not to allow time for raising the supplies by any other method.

By this artifice, gross as it is, the patrons of this wonderful bill hope to obstruct a plain and open detection of its tendency. They hope, my lords, that the bill shall operate in the same manner with the liquor which it is intended to bring into more general use; and that as those that drink spirits are drunk before they are well aware that they are drinking, the effects of this law shall be perceived before we know that we have made it. Their intent is to give us a dram of policy, which is to be swallowed before it is tasted, and which, when once it is swallowed, will turn our heads.

But, my lords, I hope we shall be so cautious as to examine the draught which these state empirics have thought proper to offer us; and I am confident that a very little examination will convince us of the pernicious qualities of their new preparation, and show that it can have no other effect than that of poisoning the publick.

The law before us, my lords, seems to be the effect of that practice, of which it is intended likewise to be the cause, and to be dictated by the liquor of which it so effectually promotes the use; for surely it never before was conceived, by any man intrusted with the administration of publick affairs, to raise taxes by the destruction of the people.

Nothing, my lords, but the destruction of all the most laborious and useful part of the nation can be expected, from the license which is now proposed to be given not only to drunkenness, but to drunkenness of the most detestable and dangerous kind, to the abuse not only of intoxicating, but of poisonous liquors.

Nothing, my lords, is more absurd than to assert, that the use of spirits will be hindered by the bill now before us, or indeed that it will not be in a very great degree promoted by it. For what produces all kind of wickedness, but the prospect of impunity on one part, or the solicitation of opportunity on the other; either of these has too frequently been sufficient to overpower the sense of morality, and even of religion; and what is not to be feared from them, when they shall unite their force, and operate together; when temptations shall be increased, and terrour taken away?

It is allowed by those who have hitherto disputed on either side of this question, that the people appear obstinately enamoured of this new liquor; it is allowed on both parts, that this liquor corrupts the mind, enervates the body, and destroys vigour and virtue at the same time; that it makes those who drink it too idle and too feeble for work; and, while it impoverishes them by the present expense, disables them from retrieving its ill consequences by subsequent industry.

It might be imagined, my lords, that those who had thus far agreed would not easily find any occasion of dispute; nor would any man, unacquainted with the motives by which senatorial debates are too often influenced, suspect, that after the pernicious qualities of this liquor, and the general inclination among the people to the immoderate use of it, had been generally admitted, it could be afterwards inquired, whether it ought to be made more common, whether this universal thirst for poison ought to be encouraged by the legislature, and whether a new statute ought to be made to secure drunkards in the gratification, of their appetites.

To pretend, my lords, that the design of this bill is to prevent or diminish the use of spirits, is to trample upon common sense, and to violate the rules of decency as well as of reason. For when did any man hear, that a commodity was prohibited by licensing its sale? or that to offer and refuse is the same action?

It is, indeed, pleaded, that it will be made dearer by the tax which is proposed, and that the increase of the price will diminish the numbers of the purchasers; but it is at the same time expected, that this tax shall supply the expense of a war on the continent: it is asserted, therefore, that the consumption of spirits will be hindered, and yet that it will be such as may be expected to furnish, from a very small tax, a revenue sufficient for the support of armies, for the reestablishment of the Austrian family, and the repression of the attempts of France.

Surely, my lords, these expectations are not very consistent, nor can it be imagined that they are both formed in the same head, though they may be expressed by the same mouth. It is, however, some recommendation of a statesman, when of his assertions one can be found reasonable or true; and this praise cannot be denied to our present ministers; for though it is undoubtedly false, that this tax will lessen the consumption of spirits, it is certainly true, that it will produce a very large revenue, a revenue that will not fail but with the people from whose debaucheries it arises.

Our ministers will, therefore, have the same honour with their predecessors, of having given rise to a new fund, not indeed for the payment of our debts, but for much more valuable purposes, for the exaltation of our hearts under oppression, for the elevation of our spirits amidst miscarriages and disappointments, and for the cheerful support of those debts which we have lost hopes of paying. They are resolved, my lords, that the nation, which nothing can make wise, shall, while they are at its head, at least be merry; and since publick happiness is the end of government, they seem to imagine that they shall deserve applause by an expedient, which will enable every man to lay his cares asleep, to drown sorrow, and lose in the delights of drunkenness both the publick miseries and his own.

Surely, my lords, men of this unbounded benevolence, and this exalted genius, deserve such honours as were never paid before; they deserve to bestride a butt upon every signpost in the metropolis, or to have their countenances exhibited as tokens where this liquor is to be sold by the license which they have procured. They must be at least remembered to future ages, as the happy politicians who, after all expedients for raising taxes had been employed, discovered a new method of draining the last relicks of the publick wealth, and added a new revenue to the government; nor will those, who shall hereafter enumerate the several funds now established among us, forget, among the benefactors to their country, the illustrious authors of the drinking fund.

May I be allowed, my lords, to congratulate my countrymen and fellow-subjects upon the happy times which are now approaching, in which no man will be disqualified for the privilege of being drunk, when all discontent and disloyalty shall be forgotten, and the people, though now considered by the ministry as their enemies, shall acknowledge the lenity of that government, under which all restraints are taken away.

But to a bill for such desirable purposes, it would be proper, my lords, to prefix a preamble, in which the kindness of our intentions should be more fully explained, that the nation may not mistake our indulgence for cruelty, nor consider their benefactors as their persecutors. If, therefore, this bill be considered and amended, (for why else should it be considered?) in a committee, I shall humbly propose, that it shall be introduced in this manner: "Whereas the designs of the present ministry, whatever they are, cannot be executed without a great number of mercenaries, which mercenaries cannot be hired without money; and whereas the present disposition of this nation to drunkenness inclines us to believe, that they will pay more cheerfully for the undisturbed enjoyment of distilled liquors, than for any other concession that can be made by the government, be it enacted, by the king's most excellent majesty, that no man shall hereafter be denied the right of being drunk, on the following conditions."

This, my lords, to trifle no longer, is the proper preamble to this bill, which contains only the conditions on which the people of this kingdom are to be allowed henceforward to riot in debauchery, in debauchery licensed by law, and countenanced by the magistrates; for there is no doubt but those on whom the inventors of this tax shall confer authority, will be directed to assist their masters in their design to encourage the consumption of that liquor from which such large revenues are expected, and to multiply, without end, those licenses which are to pay a yearly tribute to the crown.

By this unbounded license, my lords, that price will be lessened, from the increase of which the expectations of the efficacy of this law are pretended; for the number of retailers will lessen the value as in all other cases, and lessen it more than this tax will increase it. Besides, it is to be considered, that at present the retailer expects to be paid for the danger which he incurs by an unlawful trade, and will not trust his reputation or his purse to the mercy of his customer, without a profit proportioned to the hazard; but when once the restraint shall be taken away, he will sell for common gain; and it can hardly be imagined, that at present he subjects himself to informations and penalties for less than sixpence a gallon.

The specious pretence on which this bill is founded, and, indeed, the only pretence that deserves to be termed specious, is the propriety of taxing vice; but this maxim of government has, on this occasion, been either mistaken or perverted. Vice, my lords, is not properly to be taxed, but suppressed; and heavy taxes are sometimes the only means by which that suppression can be attained. Luxury, my lords, or the excess of that which is pernicious only by its excess, may very properly be taxed, that such excess, though not strictly unlawful, may be made more difficult. But the use of those things which are simply hurtful, hurtful in their own nature, and in every degree, is to be prohibited. None, my lords, ever heard in any nation of a tax upon theft or adultery, because a tax implies a license granted for the use of that which is taxed, to all who shall be willing to pay it.

Drunkenness, my lords, is universally and in all circumstances an evil, and, therefore, ought not to be taxed, but punished; and the means of it not to be made easy by a slight impost, which none can feel, but to be removed out of the reach of the people, and secured by the heaviest taxes, levied with the utmost rigour. I hope those to whose care the religion of the nation is particularly consigned, will unanimously join with me in maintaining the necessity, not of taxing vice, but suppressing it; and unite for the rejection of a bill, by which the future as well as present happiness of thousands must be destroyed.

Lord LONSDALE spoke as follows:—My lords, the bill now before us, has, from its first appearance in the other house, seemed to me of such importance as to deserve the greatest attention, and to demand the most diligent inquiry; and I have, therefore, considered it with uncommon care, and pursued all those inquiries from which I could expect any assistance for discovering its tendency and its consequences, with the nicest and most anxious vigilance.

That my attention and diligence may not wholly terminate in the gratification of idle and useless curiosity, it is proper to inform your lordships of their result; by which I hope to convince you, as I am myself convinced, that this bill cannot become a law, without endangering the lives of thousands, without dispersing diseases over the nation, or without multiplying crimes beyond the possibility of restraint or punishment; that it will fill the land with confusion for a time, by infatuating the people, and afterwards lay it desolate by destroying them.

All my inquiries, my lords, have had one constant and uniform Effect. On what side soever I have turned my speculations, I have found new arguments against this bill, and have discovered new mischiefs comprised in it; mischiefs which, however some may endeavour to overlook them, and others to despise them, will be found in a short time too general to be concealed, and too formidable to be neglected.

The first consideration, in which the necessity of deliberating on this bill engaged me, related to the quality of the liquors which are mentioned in it. With regard to this question, my lords, there was no possibility of long suspense; for the pernicious effects of spirits were confessed equally by all those who countenanced and opposed this new project; nor could any man take a survey of this city without meeting in his way such objects as might make all farther inquiry superfluous. The idleness, the insolence, the debauchery of the common people, and their natural and certain consequences, poverty, diseases, misery, and wickedness, are to be observed without any intention of indulging such disagreeable speculations; in every part of this great metropolis, whoever shall pass along the streets, will find wretches stretched upon the pavement, insensible and motionless, and only removed by the charity of passengers from the danger of being crushed by carriages, or trampled by horses, or strangled with filth in the common sewers; and others, less helpless perhaps, but more dangerous, who have drank too much to fear punishment, but not enough to hinder them from provoking it; who think themselves, in the elevation of drunkenness, entitled to treat all those with contempt whom their dress distinguishes from them, and to resent every injury which, in the heat of their imagination, they suppose themselves to suffer, with the utmost rage of resentment, violence of rudeness, and scurrility of tongue.

No man can pass a single hour in publick places without meeting such objects, or hearing such expressions as disgrace human nature; such as cannot be looked upon without horrour, or heard without indignation, and which there is, however, no possibility of removing or preventing, whilst this hateful liquor is publickly sold. But the visible and obvious effects of these pernicious draughts, however offensive or inconvenient, are yet much less to be dreaded than their more slow and secret operations. That excess of distilled spirits inflames the poor to insolence and fury; that it exposes them either to hurt, by making them insensible of danger, or to punishment, by making them fearless of authority, is not to be reckoned the most fatal consequence of their use; for these effects, though their frequency makes it necessary to suppress them, with regard to each individual are of no long duration; the understanding is in a short time recovered after a single debauch, and the drunkard may return to his employment.

But though the pleasures of drunkenness are quickly at an end, its pains are of longer continuance. These liquors not only infatuate the mind, but poison the body; nor do they produce only momentary fury, but incurable debility and lingering diseases; they not only fill our streets with madmen, and our prisons with criminals, but our hospitals with cripples. Those who have for a time infested the publick walks with their insults, quickly disturb them with their lamentations, and are soon reduced from bullies to beggars, and obliged to solicit alms from those they used to threaten and insult.

Nor does the use of spirits, my lords, only impoverish the publick, by lessening the number of useful and laborious hands, but by cutting off those recruits by which its natural and inevitable losses are to be supplied. The use of distilled liquors impairs the fecundity of the human race, and hinders that increase which providence has ordained for the support of the world. Those women who riot in this poisonous debauchery are quickly disabled from bearing children, by bringing on themselves, in a short time, all the infirmities and weaknesses of age; or, what is yet more destructive to general happiness, produce children diseased from their birth by the vices of their parents, children whose blood is tainted with inveterate and accumulated maladies, for which no cure can be expected;'and who, therefore, are an additional burden to the community, and must be supported through a miserable life by that labour which they cannot share, and must be protected by that community of which they cannot contribute to the defence.

Thus, my lords, is the great source of power and wealth dried up, the numbers of the people are every day diminished, and, by consequence, our armies must be weakened, our trade abandoned, and our lands uncultivated. To diminish the people of any nation is the most atrocious political crime that it is possible to commit; for it tends not to enslave or impoverish, but to annihilate; not to make a nation miserable, but to make it no longer a nation.

Such, my lords, are the effects of distilled liquors; effects of which I would not have shocked you with the enumeration, had it not been with a design of preventing them; and surely no man will be charged with so trivial an offence as negligence of delicacy, when he is pleading, not for the honour or the life of a single man, but for the peace of the present age, the health of posterity, and the existence of the British people.

After having examined the nature of these liquors, it is natural to inquire, how much they are in use; whether mankind appear to know their quality, and avoid and detest them like other poisons; or whether they are considered as inoffensive, and drank, like other liquors, to raise the spirits, or to gladden the heart; whether they make part of social entertainments, and whether they are handed round at publick tables, without any suspicion of their fatal consequences.

It is well known, my lords, that these liquors have not been long in use among the common people. Spirits were at first only imported from foreign countries, and were, by consequence, too dear for the luxuries of the vulgar. In time it was discovered, that it was practicable to draw from grain, and other products of our own soil, such liquors as, though not equally pleasing to elegant palates with those of other nations, resembled them, at least in their inebriating quality, and might be afforded at an easy rate, and consequently generally purchased.

This discovery, my lords, gave rise to the new trade of distilling, which has been now for many years carried on in this nation, and of the progress of which, since the duties were laid upon its produce, an exact account may be easily obtained, which I thought so necessary in our deliberations on this bill, that I have procured it to be drawn out.

From this account, my lords, it will be discovered, what cannot be related without the utmost grief, that there has prevailed, for many years, a kind of contagious infatuation among the common people, by which they have been incited to poison themselves and their children with distilled spirits; they have forsaken those liquors which in former times enlivened their conversation and exalted their merriment, and, instead of ale and beer, rioted of late in distilled spirits.

The amazing increase of the consumption of spirits for the last ten years, is a proof too evident of the prevalence of this destructive species of drunkenness; and I shall, therefore, without troubling your lordships with earlier accounts, only mention in round numbers, the vast quantities for which the duty has been paid for a few years in that period. In the year 1733, the number of gallons distilled was three millions and nine hundred thousand, which in 1735 was increased to five millions and three hundred thousand; soon afterwards the law was made which we are now persuaded to repeal, by the execution of which, however feeble and irresolute, the number was reduced in the first year afterwards to three millions, and might, perhaps, by steady perseverance have been every year lessened; but in a short time the people prevailed in the contest with the legislators, they intimidated information, and wearied prosecution; and were at length allowed to indulge themselves in the enjoyment of their favourite vice without any farther molestation.

The effects of this indulgence, my lords, have been very remarkable; nor can it be denied, that the government betrayed great weakness in suffering the laws to be overruled by drunkenness, and the meanest and most profligate of the people to set the statutes at defiance; for the vice which had been so feebly opposed spread wider and wider, and every year added regularly another million of gallons to the quantity of spirits distilled, till in the last year they rose to seven millions and one hundred thousand gallons.

Such, my lords, is at present the state of the nation; twelve millions of gallons of these poisonous liquors are every year swallowed by the inhabitants of this kingdom; and this quantity, enormous as it is, will probably every year increase, till the number of the people shall be sensibly diminished by the diseases which it must produce; nor shall we find any decay of this pernicious trade, but by the general mortality that will overspread the kingdom.

At least, if this vice should be suppressed, it must be suppressed by some supernatural interposition of providence; for nothing is more absurd, than to imagine, that the bill now before us can produce any such effect. For what, my lords, encourages any man to a crime but security from punishment, or what tempts him to the commission of it but frequent opportunity? We are, however, about to reform the practice of drinking spirits, by making spirits more easy to be procured; we are about to hinder them from being bought, by exempting the vender from all fear of punishment.

It has, indeed, been asserted, that the tax now to be laid upon these liquors will have such wonderful effects, that those who are at present drunk twice a-day, will not be henceforward able to commit the same crime twice a-week; an assertion which I could not hear without wondering at the new discoveries which ministerial sagacity can sometimes make. In deliberations on a subject of such importance, my lords, no man ought to content himself with conjecture, where certainty may, at whatsoever expense of labour, be attained; nor ought any man to neglect a careful and attentive examination of his notions, before he offers them in publick consultations; for if they were erroneous, and no man can he certain that he is in the right, who has never brought his own opinions to the test of inquiry, he exposes himself to be detected in ignorance or temerity, and to that contempt which such detection naturally and justly produces; or if his audience submit their reason to his authority, and neglect to examine his assertions, in confidence that he has sufficiently examined them himself, he may suffer what to an honest mind must be far more painful than any personal ignominy, he may languish under the consciousness of having influenced the publick counsels by false declarations, and having by his negligence betrayed his country to calamities which a closer attention might have enabled him to have foreseen.

Whether the noble lord, who alleged the certainty of reformation which this bill will produce, ever examined his own opinion, I know not; but think it necessary at least to consider it more particularly, to supply that proof of it which, if it be true, he neglected to produce, or to show, if it be found false, how little confident assertions are to be regarded.

Between twice a-day and twice a-week, the noble lord will not deny the proportion to be as seven to one; and, therefore, to prevent drunkenness in the degree which he persuades us to expect, the price of the liquor must be raised in the same proportion; but the duty laid upon the gallon will not increase the price a fifth part, even though it should not be eluded by distilling liquors of an extraordinary strength; one fifth part of the price is, therefore, in his lordship's estimate, equal to the whole price seven times multiplied. Such are the arguments which have been produced in favour of this bill; and such is the diligence with which the publick happiness is promoted by those who have hopes of being enriched by publick calamities.

As the tax will not make a fifth part of the price, and even that may be in some measure evaded, the duty paid for licenses scarcely deserves consideration; for it is not intended to hinder retailers, but to make them useful in some degree to the ministry, by paying a yearly tax for the license of poisoning.

It is, therefore, apparent, upon the noble lord's supposition, that the price of the liquor will be raised in consequence of this tax, that no man can be hindered from more than a fifth part of his usual debauchery, which, however, would be some advantage to the publick; but even this small advantage cannot be expected from the bill, because one part will obstruct the benefits that might be hoped from another.

The duty upon liquors, however inconsiderable, will be necessarily an augmentation of the price to the first buyer, but probably that augmentation will be very little felt by the consumer. For, my lords, it must be considered, that many circumstances concur to constitute the price of any commodity; the price of what is in itself cheap, may be raised by the art or the condition of those that sell it; what is engrossed by a few hands, is sold dearer than when the same quantity is dispersed in many; and what is sold in security, and under the protection of the law, is cheaper than that which exposes the vender to prosecutions and penalties.

At present, my lords, distilled spirits are sold in opposition to the laws of the kingdom; and, therefore, it is reasonable, as has been before observed, to believe that an extraordinary profit is expected, because no man will incur danger without advantage. It is at present retailed, for the greatest part, by indigent persons, who cannot be supposed to buy it in large quantities, and, consequently, not at the cheapest rate; and who must, of necessity, gain a large profit, because they are to subsist upon a very small stock.

These causes concurring, may be easily imagined to raise the price more than a fifth part above the profit which is expected in other traffick; but when this bill shall become a law, the necessity of large profit will no longer subsist; for there will then be no danger in retailing spirits, and they will be chiefly sold in houses by persons who can afford to purchase them in great quantities, who can be trusted by the distiller, for the usual time allowed in other trades; and who, therefore, may sell them without any exorbitant advantage.

Besides, my lords, it is reasonable to imagine, that the present profit to the retailer is very great, since, like that which arises from the clandestine exportation of wool, it is sufficient to tempt multitudes to a breach of the law, a contempt of penalties, and a defiance of the magistrates; and it may be therefore imagined, that there is room for a considerable abatement of the price, which may subtract much more than is added by this new duty.

This deduction from the price, my lords, will probably be soon produced by the emulation of retailers, who, when the trade becomes safe and publick, will endeavour to attract buyers by low rates; for what the noble lord, whose ingenious assertion I am now opposing, has declared with respect to traders, that for a tax of a penny upon any commodity, they oblige the consumers to advance twopence, is not universally true; and I believe it is as likely, that the people will insist upon having the same liquor at the usual price, without regard to the tax, as that the venders will be able to raise their price in an unreasonable proportion. The obstinacy of the people with regard to this liquor, my lords, has already appeared; and I am inclined to believe, that they who have confessedly conquered the legislature, will not suffer themselves to be overcome in the same cause by the avarice of alehouse keepers.

I am, therefore, confident, my lords, that this bill will produce no beneficial effects, even in this city; and that in the country, where the sale of spirits was hindered by the late law, or where, at least, it might have been hindered in a great measure, it will propagate wickedness and debauchery in a degree never yet known; the torrent of licentiousness will break at once upon it, and a sudden freedom from restraint will produce a wanton enjoyment of privileges which had never been thought so valuable, had they never been taken away. Thus, while the crowds of the capital are every day thinned by the licensed distributors of poison, the country, which is to be considered as the nursery in which the human species is chiefly propagated, will be made barren; and that race of men will be intercepted, which is to defend the liberty of the neighbouring nations in the next age, which is to extend our commerce to other kingdoms, or repel the encroachments of future usurpation.

The bill, my lords, will, therefore, produce none of the advantages which those who promote it have had the confidence to promise the publick. But let us now examine whether they have not been more sagacious in securing the benefits which they expect from it themselves.

That one of the intentions of it is to raise a sum to supply the present exigencies of the government is not denied; that this is the only intention is generally believed, and believed upon the strongest reasons; for it is the only effect which it can possibly produce; and to this end it is calculated with all the skill of men long versed in the laudable art of contriving taxes and of raising money.

I have already shown to your lordships, that seven millions of gallons of spirits are annually distilled in this kingdom; this consumption, at the small duty of sixpence a gallon, now to be imposed, will produce a yearly revenue of £175,000. and the tax upon licenses may be rated at a very large sum; so that there is a fund sufficient, I hope, for the expenses which a land war is to bring upon us.

But we are not to forget, my lords, that this is only the produce of the first year, and that the tax is likely to afford every year a larger revenue. As the consumption of those liquors, under its late discouragements, has advanced a million of gallons every year, it may be reasonably imagined, that by the countenance of the legislature, and the protection of authority, it will increase in a double proportion; and that in ten years more, twenty millions will be distilled every year for the destruction of the people.

Thus far, my lords, the scheme of the ministry appears prosperous; but all prosperity, at least all the prosperity of dishonesty, must in time have an end. The practice of drinking cannot be for ever continued, because it will hurry the present generation to the grave, and prevent the production of another; the revenue must cease with the consumption, and the consumption must be at an end when the consumers are destroyed.

But this, my lords, cannot speedily happen, nor have our ministers any dread of miseries which are only to fall in distant times upon another generation. It is sufficient for them, if their expedient can supply those exigencies which their counsels have brought upon the publick; if they pay their court to the crown with success, at whatever disadvantage to the people, and continue in power till they have enlarged their fortunes, and then without punishment retire to enjoy them.

But I hope, my lords, that we shall act upon very different principles; that we shall examine the most distant consequences of our resolutions, and consider ourselves, not as the agents of the crown to levy taxes, but as the guardians of the people to promote the publick happiness; that we shall always remember that happiness can be produced only by virtue; and that since this bill can tend only to the increase of debauchery, we shall, without the formality of a commitment, unanimously reject it with indignation and abhorrence.

Lord CARTERET spoke to the following effect:—My lords, the bill now before us has been examined with the utmost acuteness, and opposed with all the arts of eloquence and argumentation; nor has any topick been forgotten that could speciously be employed against it. It has been represented by some as contrary to policy, and by others as opposite to religion; its consequences have been displayed with all the confidence of prediction, and the motives upon which it has been formed, declared to be such as I hope every man abhors who projected or defends it.

It has been asserted, that this bill owes its existence only to the necessity of raising taxes for the support of unnecessary troops, to be employed in useless and dangerous expeditions; and that those who defend it have no regard to the happiness or virtue of the people, nor any other design than to raise supplies, and gratify the ministry.

In pursuance of this scheme of argument, the consequences of this bill have been very artfully deduced, and very copiously explained; and it has been asserted that by passing it, we shall show ourselves the patrons of vice, the defenders of debauchery, and the promoters of drunkenness.

It has been declared, that in consequence of this law, by which the use of distilled liquors is intended to be restrained, the retailers of them will be multiplied, and multiplied without end; till the corruption, which is already too extensive, is become general, and the nation is transformed into a herd of drunkards.

With regard to the uses to which the money which shall arise from this tax is to be applied, though it has been more than once mentioned in this debate, I shall pass it over, as without any connexion with the question before us. To confound different topicks may be useful to those whose design is to impose upon the inattention or weakness of their opponents, as they may be enabled by it to alter sometimes the state of the controversy, and to hide their fallacies in perplexity and confusion; but always to be avoided by those who endeavour to discover and to establish truth, who dispute not to confound but to convince, and who intend not to disturb the publick deliberations, but assist them.

I shall, therefore, my lords, only endeavour to show that the consequence, of which some lords express, and I believe with sincerity, such dreadful apprehensions, is not in reality to be feared from this bill; that it will probably promote the purpose for which it is declared to be calculated, and that it will by no means produce that havock in the human species which seems to be suspected, or diffuse that corruption through the people which has been confidently foretold.

The present state of this vice, my lords, has been fully explained, as well by those who oppose the bill as by those who defend it. The use of distilled liquors is now prohibited by a penal law, but the execution of this law, as of all others of the same kind, necessarily supposes a regular information of the breach of it to be laid before the magistrate. The people consider this law, however just or necessary, as an act of the most tyrannical cruelty, which ought to be opposed with the utmost steadiness and vigour, as an insupportable hardship from which they ought at any rate to set themselves free.

They have determined, therefore, not to be governed by this law, and have, consequently, endeavoured to hinder its execution; and so vigorous have been their efforts, that they have at last prevailed. At first they only opposed it by their perseverance and obstinacy, they resolved to persist in the practice of retailing liquors without regard to the penalties which they might incur by it; and, therefore, as one was put to prison, his place was immediately supplied by another; and so frequent were the informations and so fruitless the penalties, that the chief magistrate of the metropolis lamented publickly in the other house, the unpleasing necessity to which he was subjected by that law, of fining and imprisoning without end, and without hopes of procuring the reformation that was intended. Thus they proceeded for some time, and appeared to hope that the magistrates would after a while connive at a practice, which they should find no degree of severity sufficient to suppress; that they would sink under the fatigue of punishing to no purpose, that they would by degrees relax their vigilance, and leave the people in quiet possession of that felicity which they appeared to rate at so high a price.

At length, my lords, instead of wearying the magistrates, they grew weary themselves, and determined no longer to bear persecution for their enjoyments, but to resist that law which they could not evade, and to which they would not submit. They, therefore, determined to mark out all those who by their informations promoted its execution, as publick enemies, as wretches who, for the sake of a reward, carried on a trade of perjury and persecution, and who harassed their innocent neighbours only for carrying on a lawful employment for supplying the wants of the poor, relieving the weariness of the labourer, administering solace to the dejected, and cordials to the sick.

The word was, therefore, given that no informer should be spared; and when an offender was summoned by the civil officers, crowds watched at the door of the magistrate to rescue the prisoner, and to discover and seize the witness upon whose testimony he was convicted; and unfortunate was the wretch who, with the imputation of this crime upon him, fell into their hands; it is well remembered by every man who at that time was conversant in this city, with what outcries of vengeance an informer was pursued in the publick streets, and in the open day; with what exclamations of triumph he was seized, and with what rage of cruelty he was tormented.

One instance of their fury I very particularly remember: as a man was passing along the streets, the alarm was given that he was an informer against the retailers of spirituous liquors, the populace were immediately gathered as in a time of common danger, and united in the pursuit as of a beast of prey, which it was criminal not to destroy; the man discovered, either by consciousness or intelligence, his danger, and fled for his life with the utmost precipitation; but no housekeeper durst afford him shelter, the cry increased upon him on all hands, and the populace rolled on after him with a torrent not to be resisted; and he was upon the point of being overtaken, and like some others destroyed, when one of the greatest persons in the nation, hearing the tumult, and inquiring the reason, opened his doors to the distressed fugitive, and sheltered him from a cruel death.

Soon afterwards there was a stop put to all information; no man dared afterwards, for the sake of a reward, expose himself to the fury of the people, and the use of these destructive liquors was no longer obstructed. How much the practice of this kind of debauchery prevailed, after this short restraint, and how much the consumption of these destructive liquors has increased, the noble lord who spoke last has very accurately informed us, nor can any argument be offered for the present bill more strong than that which his computations have already furnished.

For if it appears, my lords, and it cannot be doubted after such authentick testimonies, that seven millions of gallons of spirits are every year consumed in this kingdom, and that of these far the greatest quantity is wasted in the most flagitious and destructive debauchery; it is surely at length necessary to consider by what means this consumption, which cannot be stopped, may be lessened, and this vice obstructed, which cannot be reformed.

By opening a sufficient number of licensed shops, the number of unlicensed retailers will be necessarily lessened, and by raising the price of the liquor, the quantity which the poor drink must, with equal certainty, be diminished; and as it cannot be imagined that the number of those who will pay annually for licenses, can be equal to that of the petty traders, who now dispose of spirits in cellars and in the streets; it is reasonable to believe that since there will be fewer sellers, less will be sold.

Some lords have, indeed, declared their suspicion, that the number of licensed shops will be such as will endanger the health of the people, and the peace of the commonwealth; and one has so far indulged his imagination, as to declare that he expects fifteen hundred shops to be set open for the sale of spirits, in a short time after the publication of this law.

If it be answered, that no spirits can be sold but by those who keep a house of publick entertainment by a license from the justices of the peace, the opponents of the bill have a reply ready, that the justices will take all opportunities to promote the increase of the revenue, and will always grant a license when it is demanded, without regard to the mischiefs that may arise from the increase of the retreats of idleness and receptacles of vice; and that, therefore, to allow justices to grant licenses for the retail of any commodity upon which a tax is laid, is to permit the sale of it without limits.

But, my lords, this argument will vanish, when it is considered that those justices to whom the law commits the superintendency of publick-houses, are superintended themselves by men who derive their authority from a higher power, and whose censures are more formidable than judicial penalties. The conduct of the justices, my lords, as of every other person, lies open to the observation of the reverend clergy, by whose counsels it is to be regulated, and by whose admonitions it ought to be reformed; admonitions which cannot be supposed to be without force from men to whom the great province of preaching virtue and truth is committed, and whose profession is so much reverenced, that reputation and infamy are generally in their power.

Should the justices, my lords, abuse their authority, either for the increase of the revenue, or any other purpose, what could they expect but to be marked out on the next day of publick worship for reproach and derision? What could they hope but that their crimes should be displayed in the most odious view to their neighbours, their children, and their dependants; and that all those from whom nature or interest teaches them to desire friendship, reverence, or esteem, will be taught to consider them as the slaves of power and the agents of villany, as the propagators of debauchery, and the enemies of mankind?

There is, therefore, my lords, reason to hope that the bill may be useful, because it will be hindered from being detrimental; and as there is an absolute necessity of doing something, and no better method can at present be proposed, I think this ought not to be rejected. We have found by experience that the publick is not to be reformed at once, and that the progress from corruption to reformation must be gradual; and as this bill enforces some degrees of amendment, it is at least more eligible than the present law, which is wholly without effect, because no man will dare to put it in execution.

Every man must be convinced, by his own experience, of the difficulty with-which long habits are surmounted. I myself suffer some indulgence which yet I cannot prevail upon myself to forbear; this indulgence is the use of too much snuff, to which it is well known that many persons of rank are not less addicted; and, therefore, I do not wonder that the law is ineffectual, which is to encounter with the habits and appetites of the whole mass of the common people.

For this reason, my lords, I cannot approve what has been recommended in this debate, any new law that may put the enjoyment of this liquor yet farther from them, by facilitating prosecutions, or enforcing penalties, as I am convinced that the natural force of the people is superiour to the law, and that their natural force will be exerted for the defence of their darling spirits, and the whole nation be shaken with universal sedition.

It has been objected by the noble lord, that the tax now proposed is such as never was raised in any government, because, though luxury may confessedly be taxed, vice ought to be constantly suppressed; and this, in his lordship's opinion, is a tax upon vice.

His lordship's distinction between luxury and vice, between the use of things unlawful, and the excess of things lawful, is undoubtedly just, but by no means applicable on this occasion; nor, indeed, has the noble lord, with all his art, been able to apply it; for he was obliged to change the terms in his argument; and, instead of calling this tax, a tax upon strong liquors, to stigmatize it with the odious appellation of a tax upon drunkenness.

To call any thing what it really is not, and then to censure it, is very easy; too easy, my lords, to be done with success. To confute the argument it is only necessary to observe, that this tax is not a tax upon drunkenness, but a tax laid upon strong liquors for the prevention of drunkenness; and, by consequence, such as falls within the compass of his own definition.

That it is not a tax upon luxury cannot be inferred from the indigence of those whom it is intended to reform; for luxury is, my lords, ad modum possidentis, of different kinds, in proportion to different conditions of life, and one man may very decently enjoy those delicacies or pleasures to which it would be foolish and criminal in another to aspire. Whoever spends upon superfluities what he must want for the necessities of life, is luxurious; and excess, therefore, of distilled spirits may be termed, with the utmost propriety, the luxury of the poor.

This, my lords, appeared to be the opinion of the noble lord who spoke so copiously on this question at the beginning of the debate; of this opinion was the reverend prelate when he observed, that necessity itself was become luxurious, and of this opinion must every man be who advises such a duty to be laid upon these liquors as may at once debar the poor from the use of them; for such a proposal evidently supposes them unnecessary, and all enjoyment of things not necessary is a degree of luxury.

To tax this luxury, which is, perhaps, the most pernicious of all others, is now proposed; but it is proposed to tax it only to suppress it, to suppress it by such slow degrees as may be borne by the people; and I hope a law so salutary will not be opposed only because it may afford the government a present supply.

The duke of NEWCASTLE then rose up, and spoke to the following effect:—My lords, I am of opinion that this debate would have been much shorter, had not the noble lords who have spoken in it suffered themselves to be led away, either by their own zeal, or the zeal of their opponents, from the true state of the question, to which I shall take the liberty of recalling their attention, that this important controversy may have at length an end.

The point, the only point that is, in my opinion, now to be considered, is this: the people of this nation have for some time practised a most pernicious and hateful kind of debauchery; against which several laws have been already made, which experience has shown to be so far without effect, that the disorder has every year increased among them; [while the duke was speaking, the bishop of ORFORD said, without intention to be overheard, "Yes, that is the true state of the case," upon which the duke stopped, and asked whether his lordship had any objection to make, who answered that he had no design of interrupting him; and he, therefore, proceeded.] A new law, therefore, is proposed, less severe, indeed, than the former, but which it is hoped will be for that reason more efficacious; this law having passed through the other house, is now, in the common course of our procedure, to be considered by us in a committee.

We are now, my lords, therefore, to resolve, whether a bill for the reformation of this flagrant vice deserves any farther deliberation, whether we shall join with the other house in their endeavours to restore the ancient sobriety and virtue of the British people, or, by an open disapprobation of their attempt, discourage them from prosecuting their design, and debar them from using the opportunities that succeeding years may afford, and the new lights which experience may supply for improving this essay, however imperfect, to a salutary and unexceptionable law.

The prelates whose laudable zeal for the promotion of virtue has prompted them to distinguish themselves on this occasion by an uncommon warmth of opposition, ought, as they appear fully sensible of the calamities which intemperance brings upon mankind, to consider likewise the consequences of refusing to examine, in a committee, a bill professedly drawn up to restrain intemperance. They ought to remember, that by rejecting this bill without a particular examination of the several clauses which it contains, and without those particular objections which such examinations necessarily produce, we shall discover a contempt of the wisdom or virtue of the other house, which may incline them in their turn to obstruct the measures of the government, or at least to neglect that evil, however great, for the redress of which they have no reason to expect our concurrence.

Those whose particular province it is to inspect the lives of the people, to recal them from vice, and strengthen them in virtue, should certainly reflect on this occasion, that the safest method ought to be chosen; and, therefore, that this bill ought to be promoted; because, not to affirm too much, it is possible that it may produce some degree of reformation; and the worst that can be feared is, that, like the present law, it will be ineffectual; for the corruption and licentiousness of the people are already such, that nothing can increase them.

The bishop of SARUM then spoke to the following purpose:—My lords, I am so far from being convinced by the arguments of the noble duke, that the bill now before us ought to be committed without farther opposition, that, in my opinion, nothing can be more unworthy of the honour of this house, or more unsuitable to the character which those who sit on this bench ought to desire, than to agree to any vote which may have the most distant appearance of approbation.

That a bill drawn up for the reformation of manners, for the restraint of a predominant and destructive vice, for the promotion of virtue, and the enforcement of religion, ought, at least, to be calmly and particularly considered; that the laudable endeavours of the commons ought not to be discouraged by a precipitate and contemptuous rejection of the measures which they have formed for the attainment of a purpose so important, is, indeed, a specious and plausible method of persuasion; but, my lords, it can affect only those who come to deliberate upon this bill without having read it.

A very slight and cursory perusal of the bill, my lords, will dissipate all the mists which eloquence can raise; it will show that the law now proposed can neither be useful nor ineffectual, but that it must operate very powerfully, though in a manner by no means agreeable to its title.

To prevent the excessive use of any thing, by allowing it to be sold without restraint, is an expedient which the wisdom of no former age ever discovered; it is, indeed, a fallacy too gross to be admitted, even by the most inconsiderate negligence, or the most contemptuous stupidity; nor am I at all inclined to believe, that the commons will impute the rejection of this bill to our disregard of virtue, or think that we have defeated any endeavours for the suppression of wickedness.

It has been affirmed, that though by the bill the sale is permitted, it is permitted only because it cannot be hindered; and that the price is raised so high, that, though the lawful venders may be multiplied, the number of the purchasers must be diminished. But even this argument, like all others that have yet been advanced, is confuted by the bill itself, from which the tax now proposed appears to be such as, when subdivided by the small measures in which retailers sell these liquors, will scarcely be perceived, and which, though it may enrich the government, will not impoverish the people, except by destroying their health, and enervating their limbs.

The tax, my lords, even supposing it paid without any method of evasion, is so low, that in a quarter of a pint, the quantity which the lower people usually demand at once, it does not amount to any denomination of money; and so small an addition will be easily overbalanced by the sale of a larger quantity than formerly; for it cannot be doubted but the practice which prevailed in opposition to the law, will grow yet more predominant by its encouragement; and that, therefore, the advantage of a large and quick sale, will lessen the price more than so slight a tax can possibly increase it.

The noble duke has endeavoured to reduce us to difficulties, by urging, that since the corruption of the people cannot be greater, we ought willingly to agree to any law, of which the title declares that it is intended to produce a reformation, because the worst that can be feared is, that it may be without effect.

But, my lords, such is the enormous absurdity of this bill, that no plea can be offered for it with the least appearance of reason; and the greatest abilities, when they are exerted in its defence, are able only to show, by fruitless efforts, that it cannot be vindicated. If the state of the nation be really such as has been supposed, if the most detestable and odious vice has overspread the kingdom to its utmost limits, if the people are universally abandoned to drunkenness, sloth, and villany, what can be more absurd than to trifle with doubtful experiments, and to make laws which must be suspected of inefficacy? In the diseases of the state, as in those of the body, the force of the remedy ought to be proportioned to the strength and danger of the disease; and surely no political malady can be more formidable than the prevalence of wickedness, nor can any time require more firmness, vigilance, and activity, in the legislative power.

That the law, therefore, may be without effect, is, in the present state of corruption, if it has been truly represented, a sufficient reason for rejecting it, without allowing it to be committed; because there is now no time for indulgence, or for delays; a nation universally corrupt, must be speedily reformed, or speedily ruined. Those habits which have been confessed to be already too powerful for the laws now in being, may in a short time be absolutely irresistible; and that licentiousness which intimidates the officers of justice, may in another year insult the legislature.

But, my lords, I am yet willing to hope that the noble duke's account of the wickedness of the people, was rather a rhetorical exaggeration, uttered in the ardour of dispute, than a strict assertion of facts; and am of opinion that, though vice has, indeed, of late spread its contagion with great rapidity, there are yet great numbers uninfected, and cannot believe that our condition is such as that nothing can make it more miserable.

In many parts of the country, my lords, these liquors have not yet been much used, nor is it likely that those who have never sold them, when the law allowed them, will begin an unnecessary trade, when it will expose them to penalties. But a new law in favour of spirits will produce a general inclination, and a kind of emulation will incite every one to take a license for the retail of this new liquor; and so every part of the kingdom will be equally debauched, and no place will be without a vender of statutable poison. The luxury of the vulgar, for luxury, in my opinion, it may very properly be called, will still increase, and vices and diseases will increase with it.

There is at least one part of the nation yet untainted, a part which deserves the utmost care of the legislature, and which must be endangered by a law like this before us. The children, my lords, to whom the affairs of the present generation must be transferred, and by whom the nation must be continued, are surely no ignoble part of the publick. They are yet innocent, and it is our province to take care that they may in time be virtuous; we ought, therefore, to remove from before them those examples that may infect, and those temptations that may corrupt them. We ought to reform their parents, lest they should imitate them; and to destroy those provocatives to vice, by which the present generation has been intoxicated, lest they should with equal force operate upon the next.

There is, therefore, no occasion, my lords, for any farther deliberation upon this bill; which, if the nation be yet in any part untainted, will infect it; and if it be universally corrupted, will have no tendency to amend it; and which we ought, for these reasons to reject, that our abhorrence of vice may be publickly known, and that no part of the calamities which wickedness must produce, may be imputed to us.

Lord DELAWARE then spoke to the following effect:—My lords, as I am entirely of opinion that a more accurate examination of this bill will evince its usefulness and propriety to many of the lords who are now most ardent in opposing it, I cannot but think it necessary to consider it in a committee.

It is to be remembered, my lords, that this bill is intended for two purposes of very great importance to the publick; it is designed that the liberties of mankind shall be secured by the same provisions by which the vices of our own people are to be reclaimed, and supplies for carrying on the war shall be raised by a reformation of the manners of the people.

This, my lords, is surely a great and generous design; this is a complication of publick benefits, worthy the most exalted virtue, and the most refined policy; and though a bill in which views so distant are to be reconciled, should appear not to be absolutely perfect, it must yet be allowed to deserve regard; nor ought we to reject, without very cautious deliberation, any probable method of reforming the nation, or any easy way of raising supplies.

The encroachment of usurpation without, and the prevalence of vice within, is a conjunction of circumstances very dangerous; and to remove both by the same means, is an undertaking that surely cannot deserve either censure or contempt: if it succeeds, it may demand the loudest acclamations; and if it fails, must be at least approved.

The use, my lords, of spirituous liquors, though in the excess now so frequently to be observed, undoubtedly detrimental to multitudes, is not, in a proper degree, either criminal or unwholesome; and, therefore, ought not to be prohibited by a tax so heavy as has been proposed by a noble lord, who, if he pursues his reasoning, must propose to tax in the same proportion every other liquor that can administer to vice.

It is, however, certain, that too much is wasted in riot and debauchery; and that, therefore, some addition to the price of this liquor ought to be made, that, though the use of it may be continued, the excess may be restrained.

What will be the effects of this bill, and whether either of these benefits are to be expected from it, can be known only by an impartial examination; and therefore it ought to be discussed with that accuracy which is peculiar to a committee.

Lord LONSDALE here got up again, and spoke to this purpose:—My lords, that a bill which shall restrain the excess of drinking distilled liquors without hindering their moderate use, will deserve the applause of every lover of his country, I cannot deny; but that any such bill can be contrived, may very justly be doubted; for in proportion to their price they will always be used, and nothing can hinder excess but a high tax, such as I have already proposed.

The bill now before us, my lords, will, indeed, by no means obstruct the moderate use, because it will give an unbounded license to the most luxurious excess; if, therefore, nothing more be intended in the committee, than to consider how far this bill will promote the reformation of the people, it is surely not necessary to engage in any farther inquiries.

It has appeared already, to those who do not obstinately shut their eyes, that there is in it no provision for the prevention of that abuse of spirits which universally prevails. It has appeared, that the cheapness of licenses will not hinder the present retailers from carrying on an illegal trade; that information will not now be more safe or more frequent than before, and that the duty, if not in part evaded, may yet be probably abated from the present profits of the sale.

It has appeared, my lords, that no effect can be produced by this bill but the promotion of debauchery, the increase of drunkenness, the subversion of order, and the decay of industry; the miseries of disease, and the rage of want.

But that this bill will not produce, at least for some time, a large addition to the publick revenues, has not yet been proved; and while it is allowed that it will raise money, I do not wonder to hear it steadily defended, because nothing more is expected from it. But as I have not yet conversed enough with statesmen to persuade myself that the government ought to be supported by means contrary to the end for which government is instituted, I am still convinced that this bill ought to be rejected with contempt, because it will lessen the wealth of the nation without any equivalent advantage, and will at once impoverish the people, and corrupt them.

Lord ISLAY then spoke to this effect:—My lords, I cannot but be of opinion that this debate has been carried on with a vehemence by no means necessary, and that the question has been perplexed by a mistaken zeal, that the effects of this bill have been exaggerated, perhaps, on both sides, and that the opinions which have been formed with relation to it, are not really so opposite as they appear.

Those who oppose the bill, think the duty upon spirits not so high as to hinder that debauchery which so much prevails among us; and those that vindicate it, declare that more violent restraints will not be borne. Both parties have reason, and the vindicators of the bill have, likewise, experience on their side.

But, my lords, though severe restraints suddenly opposed to the habits and inclinations of the people, operating in their full force, may be broken through by restless struggles and obstinate resistance, yet a diminution of those gratifications will be borne which cannot wholly be taken away, and the same laws, introduced by proper degrees, will be patiently obeyed; this, therefore, may be very properly considered as the first tax necessary to be laid, which, though it may produce no great effects in itself, may at least make way for a second that shall be more sensibly felt, till at length these fatal spirits shall be raised to a price at which few will be able, and none willing, to purchase one pleasure of drunkenness.

But it is not impossible that even this tax, with the other provisions in the bill, may produce the reformation which is unanimously desired; and as violence should never be used till gentle methods have been tried, this bill ought, in my opinion, to be passed, and, therefore, to be referred to a committee without farther debate; for it will be thought, both by our allies and our enemies, that a great part of this assembly is very indifferent about the success of the war, if we delay the supplies, by disputing in what manner they shall be raised.

[The question being then put, whether the bill shall be committed, it was carried in the affirmative. And the lords DELAWARE and HERVEY being appointed tellers, the numbers were, Contents 59, Proxies 23—82. Not contents 38, Proxies 16—54.

It was remarked on this occasion, that there being ten prelates in the house, they all divided against the question; upon which the earl of CHESTERFIELD seeing them come towards him, said, he doubted if he had not mistaken the side, not having had the honour of their company for many years.

Two days after, the same bill was considered by the house of lords in a committee to which all of them were summoned, and occasioned another very important and curious debate.]

FEBRUARY 23, 1742-3.

The title of the bill on spirituous liquors being read, was postponed: then the preamble was read, importing, "that whereas great difficulties and inconveniencies had attended the putting the act 9 Geo. II. in execution, and the same had not been found effectual to answer the purposes intended," the commons being desirous to raise the necessary supplies in the easiest manner, do grant the rates on spirituous liquors, hereafter mentioned, and repeal the present rates.

Lord HERVEY spoke to the effect following:—My lords, notwithstanding the specious arguments which were used to influence the house to permit this bill to escape the censure it deserved, and be admitted to a farther examination in a committee, I am still confident that nothing can justly be offered in its defence; and am not afraid to declare my opinion, that it is not approved even by those who vindicate it; of whom I cannot but believe, from long experience of their judgment and their knowledge, that they consider it only as an easy manner of raising money, as an expedient rather necessary than eligible, and such as only the exigencies of the government could have prevailed upon them to propose; for nothing is more evident, than that it cannot answer the purposes of the former bill.

This, however harsh it may appear, and however inconsistent with that delicacy with which the debates of this august assembly have generally been carried on, must surely be pardoned on this occasion, if for no other reason, at least for this, that it is not easy to forbear it, it is impossible wholly to suppress it in the mind; and to forbear to speak what cannot but be thought, is no part of the duty of a publick counsellor.

The conduct of those whose station subjects them to the resentment of the ministry, or who may be reasonably imagined to expect favours from them, has, throughout all our deliberations on this bill, been such as evidently discovers their only care to be the imposition of a new tax, and the establishment of a new fund. They do not seem to urge seriously any other argument than the necessity of raising money, or to oppose the objections that have been offered, for any other reason, than because they have a tendency to obstruct the supplies.

No other argument can, indeed, be urged in vindication of a bill which every principle of policy or justice must incite us to condemn; a bill by which the sense of morality and religion will be extinguished, and the restraints, of law made ineffectual; by which the labourer and manufacturer will be at once debilitated and corrupted, and by which the roads will be filled with thieves, and the streets with beggars.

It appears, my lords, from the papers on the table, that seven millions of gallons are every year distilled; and experience shows us, that the quality of the liquor is such, that a quarter of a pint is sufficient to intoxicate the brain. Upon this computation, my lords, it is reasonable to believe, that a twentieth part of the labouring hands of this nation are detained from their proper occupations by this kind of drunkenness; and, consequently, that a twentieth part of the trade is every year lost, or, perhaps, a twentieth part of our people every year hurried to the grave, or disabled from contributing to the publick good.

These, my lords, are no doubtful facts, or conjectural calculations, they are confirmed by the most incontestable evidence, and established by all the demonstration of arithmetick; and therefore your lordships are in no danger of errour from either ignorance or uncertainty, but must determine, if you approve this bill, in opposition to all the powers of conviction, and must set aside testimony and reason at the same time.

These facts, my lords, are so plain, that the warmest advocates for the bill have tacitly acknowledged them, by proposing that, if it be found ineffectual, it shall be amended in the next session. What effect this proposal may have upon others, I know not; but for my part, I shall never think it allowable to sport with the prosperity of the publick, or to try experiments by which, if they fail, the lives of thousands must be destroyed.

Such a scheme, my lords, very ill becomes those to whom their ancestors have transmitted the illustrious character of guardians of the people; for surely such cruelty was never practised by the utmost wantonness of tyranny, or the most savage rage of invasion. No man ever before conceived the design of scattering poison for a certain period of time among the people, only to try what havock it would make.

What will be the effects of unrestrained and licensed debauchery may be known, without the guilt of so dreadful an experiment, only by observing the present conduct of the people, even while they are hindered from the full enjoyment of their pleasures, by the terrours of a penal law. Whoever shall be so far touched with the interest of the publick, as to extend his inquiries to the lowest classes of the people, will find some diseased, and others vitiated; he will find some imprisoned by their creditors, and others starving their children; and if he traces all these calamities and crimes to their original cause, will find them all to proceed from the love of distilled liquors.

I know, my lords, that in answer to all these expostulations, and a thousand more, it will be urged by the ministers and their friends, that there is no other method to be found of raising the supplies, and that the demands of the government must be satisfied at whatever rate, and by whatever means.

Though I am very far from approving this assertion, I do not wonder at its prevalence among those who are enriched by every tax, and whose only claim to the preferments which they enjoy arises from their readiness to concur in every scheme for increasing the burdens of the publick; and, therefore, shall never expect their approbation of any proposal, by which a new tax may be retarded. Yet I cannot but declare that, in my opinion, we ought to suspend our proceedings, that the commons may discover what danger their negligence, precipitation, or blind compliance, has brought upon the nation; and that the people may, by so signal a proof of our disapprobation, be alarmed against any attempt of the same kind under any future administration.

This, my lords, will be considered, not only by posterity, but by all the wise and honest men of the present time, as a proof of our regard for virtue, and our attention to the publick welfare. This conduct will be secretly approved, even by those who may think themselves obliged to oppose it in publick; and, as it will be moderate and decent, may probably preserve the nation without irritating the other house.

I therefore move, my lords, that instead of proceeding in the superfluous forms of a committee, we should resume the house, and endeavour to obtain farther information.

After a short silence, lord CHOLMONDELEY spoke to this effect:—My lords, the observations which, though sufficiently explained and enforced in the late debate, the noble lord has been pleased to repeat on this occasion, are in themselves, indeed, sufficiently pertinent, and have been urged by his lordship with uncommon spirit and elegance; but he ought to have reflected, that general declamations are improper in a committee, where the particular clauses of the bill are to be separately considered.

I propose, therefore, that instead of wasting that time, of which the exigencies of the publick now require an uncommon frugality, in useless rhetorick, and untimely vehemence, we should proceed to examine in order the distinct paragraphs of this bill, by which it may more easily appear, whether it ought to be rejected or approved.

It cannot, indeed, be proposed, that any of the clauses shall be amended in this committee; for the claims of the commons, and the obstinacy with which they have always adhered to them, on whatever they are founded, is well known. I am old enough to remember the animosities which have arisen between the two houses, from attempts to adjust this part of their pretensions; animosities which at this time may be not only dangerous to ourselves, but fatal to a great part of mankind, and which it ought, therefore, to be our utmost care not to excite.

Lord AYLESFORD:—My lords, though the consideration of the distinct paragraphs of the bill be, as the noble lord has very justly observed, the proper business of the committee; yet since, as he has likewise observed, the present state of our affairs requires unusual expedition, I think we may very properly spare ourselves the trouble of considering paragraphs which we cannot amend; and which are in themselves so clear and so obvious, that they may be understood in their full extent upon a cursory perusal.

But, my lords, though I think it not proper to follow our usual method of considering the paragraphs distinctly, which can only drive the bill forward towards the third reading, as it has already been forced into the committee; yet I think it not necessary to irritate the other house, alarm our allies, or encourage our enemies, by rejecting that bill by which it is intended that the supplies shall be raised. There is an easy and moderate method, by which the same end may be attained without any disturbance of the publick, any impediment of the schemes of the government, or any just offence to the commons.

Instead of passing or rejecting this bill, of which the first is absolutely criminal, and the second perhaps improper, let us only delay it, by which we shall give the commons time to reflect upon it, to reexamine it, and discover, what they, perhaps, have not hitherto suspected, its destructive tendency. Nor can it be doubted, but the observations which will arise from the necessity of inquiring into the reasons of our conduct, will soon induce them to form another bill, not liable to the same objections; I, therefore, second the noble lord's motion to resume the house.

Lord ISLAY:—My lords, if we consider the pretensions of the commons, and the stubbornness with which they have hitherto adhered to them, we shall easily find the impropriety of the noble lord's motion, and foresee the inefficacy of the methods which he so warmly recommends.

The alarm which he supposes us to give the commons by postponing the bill before us, the observations which they will make upon our conduct, the new informations which they will receive, and the new bill which they will send, are merely imaginary. They will not consider themselves as concerned in the delay or expedition of our procedure, but will suppose us to act upon our own reasons, which it is not necessary for them to examine, and will by no means send another bill for supplies, till they are informed that this is rejected.

Thus, my lords, we shall only retard the supplies, without altering, or being able to alter, the method of raising them; and at last pass that bill, without examination, which we now neglect to examine, lest we should pass it; or, perhaps, irritate the commons by the novelty of our conduct, which, if they should resolve to consider it, they will probably consider only to censure.

Lord AYLESPORD:—My lords, I am no stranger to the claims of the commons to the sole and independent right of forming money bills, nor to the heat with which that claim has been asserted, or the firmness with which it has always been maintained in late senates. Nor am I ignorant, that by contesting this claim, we have sometimes excited disputes, which nothing but a prorogation of the senate could appease.

I know, my lords, and allow, that by acting in any unusual manner with regard to bills of this kind, we may excite the resentment of the commons, and that some interruption of the publick business may, for want of candour and moderation, possibly ensue.

But, my lords, I cannot think the possibility of an ill consequence an argument sufficient to show the unreasonableness of my proposal; for the inconveniencies that may arise from postponing the bill, are only possible, but the calamities that we shall bring upon our country by passing it are certain.

But we are likewise to consider, my lords, that these events, of which it can only be said that they may happen, may also not happen. When I reflect that the house of commons is an assembly of reasonable beings, that it is filled by the representatives of the British people, by men who will share the calamities of the publick, and whose interest it is, equally with ours, to prevent the destruction of our commerce, the decay of our manufactures, the corruption of the present age, and the ruin of posterity, I cannot but hope that they will apply themselves to a candid review of the bill which they have sent, and without heat, jealousy, or disputes, explain it as they may do by another, which will be no deviation from the rules which they have established for themselves, and by which they may secure the happiness of their country without receding from their own pretensions.

The duke of BEDFORD:—My lords, the proposal made by the noble lord appears to me so prudent and equitable, so moderate and so seasonable, and, in my opinion, suggests so easy a method of reconciling the pretensions of the commons with the necessity of amending the bill, that I cannot but think it worthy of the unanimous approbation of your lordships.

I am very far from conceiving the commons to be an assembly of men deaf to reason, or imagining them so void of all regard for the happiness of the publick, as that they will sacrifice it to an obstinate adherence to claims which they cannot but know to be in themselves disputable, and of which they must at least allow that they are only so far just as they contribute to the great end of government, the general good.

But lest they should, by any perverse and unseasonable obstinacy, attend more to the preservation of their own power than to the promotion of the happiness of their constituents, a method is now proposed, by which the errours of this bill may be corrected, without any concession of either house. The commons may easily be informed of the dangers which are justly dreaded from this bill; and may, therefore, prepare another, by which a tax of the same kind may be laid, without a general license of drunkenness; or if a method of laying a duty upon these liquors, which may at once hinder their excessive use, and increase the revenue of the government, cannot be discovered, they may raise the supplies for the year by some other scheme.

Lord CARTERET:—My lords, as the expedient proposed by these noble lords, however it may be recommended, as being at once moderate and efficacious, has, in reality, no other tendency than to procure an absolute rejection of this bill, it is proper to consider the consequences which may be reasonably expected from the measures which they have hitherto proposed.

In order to the effectual restraint of the common people from the use of these pernicious liquors, they assert the necessity of imposing a very large duty to be paid by the distiller, which might, indeed, produce, in some degree, the effect which they expect from it, but would produce it by giving rise to innumerable frauds and inconveniencies.

The immediate consequence of a heavy duty would be the ruin of our distillery, which is now a very extensive and profitable trade, in which great multitudes are employed, who must instantly, upon the cessation of it, sink into poverty. Our stills, my lords, not only supply our natives with liquors, which they used formerly to purchase from foreign countries, and therefore increase, or at least preserve the wealth of our country; but they likewise furnish large quantities for exportation to Guernsey, Jersey, and other places. But no sooner will the duty proposed to be laid upon this liquor take place, than all this trade will be at an end, and those who now follow it will be reduced to support themselves by other employments; and those countries in which our spirits are now drank will be soon supplied from other nations with liquors at once cheaper and more pleasant.

It may be proposed, as an expedient for the preservation of our foreign trade, that the duty shall be repaid upon exportation; but the event of this provision, my lords, will be, that great quantities will be sent to sea for the sake of obtaining a repayment of the duty, which, instead of being sold to foreigners, will be privately landed again upon our own coasts.

Thus, my lords, will the duty be collected, and afterwards repaid; and the government will suffer the odium of imposing a severe tax, and incur the expense of employing a great number of officers, without any advantage to the publick. Spirits will, in many parts of the kingdom, be very little dearer than at present, and drunkenness and debauchery will still prevail.

That these arts, and a thousand others, will be practised by the people to obtain this infatuating liquor, cannot be doubted. It cannot be imagined that they will forbear frauds, who have had recourse to violence, or that those will not endeavour to elude the government, who have already defied it.

Every rigorous law will be either secretly evaded, or openly violated; every severe restraint will be shaken off, either by artifice or vice; nor can this vice, however dangerous or prevalent, be corrected but by slow degrees, by straitening the reins of government imperceptibly, and by superadding a second slight restraint, after the nation has been for some time habituated to the first.

That the government proceeds by these easy and gentle methods of reformation, ought not to be imputed to negligence, but necessity; for so far has the government been from any connivance at this vice, that an armed force was necessary to support the laws which were made to restrain it, and secure the chief persons of the state from the insults of the populace, whom they had only provoked by denying them this pernicious liquor.

Since, therefore, my lords, all opposition to this predominant inclination has appeared without effect, since the government evidently wants power to conquer the united and incessant struggles for the liberty of drunkenness, what remains but that this vice should produce some advantage to the publick, in return for the innumerable evils which arise from it, and that the government should snatch the first opportunity of taxing that vice which cannot be reformed?

This duty arises, indeed, from a concurrence of different causes, of just designs in the government, and of bad inclinations in the people. The tax is just, and well meant; but it can be made sufficient to support the expenses to which it is appropriated, only by the resolution of the populace to continue, in some degree, their usual luxury.

I am far, my lords, from thinking this method of raising money eligible for its own sake, or justifiable by any other plea than that of necessity. If it were possible at once to extinguish the thirst of spirits, no man who had any regard for virtue, or for happiness, would propose to augment the revenue by a tax upon them.

But, my lords, rigour has been already tried, and found to be vain; it has been found equally fruitless to forbid the people to use spirits, as to forbid a man in a dropsy to drink. The force of appetite long indulged, and by indulgence made superiour to the control of reason, is not to be overcome at once; it cannot be subdued by a single effort, but may be weakened; new habits of a more innocent kind may in time be superinduced, and one desire may counterbalance another.

We must endeavour, my lords, by just degrees, to withdraw their affections from this pernicious enjoyment, by making the attainment of it every year somewhat more difficult: but we must not quicken their wishes, and exasperate their resentment, by depriving them at once of their whole felicity. By this method, my lords, I doubt not but we shall obtain what we have hitherto endeavoured with so little success; and I believe that though, in open defiance of a severe law, spirits are now sold in every street of this city, a gentle restraint will, in a short time, divert the minds of the people to other entertainments, and the vice of drinking spirits will be forgotten among us.

Lord HERVEY then rose up again, and spoke to the effect following:—My lords, though I have always considered this bill as at once wicked and absurd, I imagined till now that the projectors of it would have been able to have argued, at least, speciously, though not solidly, in defence of it; nor did I imagine it to have been wholly indefensible, till I discovered how little the extensive knowledge, the long experience, and the penetrating foresight of the noble lord who spoke last, enabled him to produce in vindication of it.

His lordship's argument is reducible to this single assertion, that the drinking distilled liquors cannot be prevented; and from thence he drew this inference, that since it is a point of wisdom to turn misfortunes to advantage, we ought to contrive methods by which the debauchery of the people may enrich the government.

Though we should suppose the assertion true in any sense below that of absolute physical impossibility, the inference is by no means just; since it is the duty of governours to struggle against vice, and promote virtue with incessant assiduity, notwithstanding the difficulties that may for a time hinder the wisest and most rigorous measures from success. That governour who desists from his endeavours of reformation, because they have been once baffled, in reality abandons his station and deserts his charge, nor deserves any other character than that of laziness, negligence, or cowardice.

The preservation of virtue where it subsists, and the recovery of it where it is lost, are the only valuable purposes of government. Laws which do not promote these ends are useless, and those that obviate them are pernicious. The government that takes advantage of wicked inclinations, by accident predominant in the people, and, for any temporary convenience, instead of leading them back to virtue, plunges them deeper into vice, is no longer a sacred institution, because it is no longer a benefit to society. It is from that time a system of wickedness, in which bad ends are promoted by bad means, and one crime operates in subordination to another.

But, my lords, it is not necessary to show the unreasonableness of the inference, because the assertion from which it is deduced cannot be proved. That the excessive use of distilled liquors cannot be prevented, is a very daring paradox, not only contrary to the experience of all past times, but of the present; for the law which is now to be repealed, did in a great degree produce the effects desired from it, till the execution of it was suspended, not by the inability of the magistrates, or obstinacy of the people, but by the artifice of ministers, who promoted the sale of spirits secretly, for the same reason which incites our present more daring politicians to establish the use of them by a law.

The defects of this law, for that it was defective cannot be denied, were in the manner of levying the duty; for had half the duty that was demanded from the unlicensed retailers, been required from the distiller, there had been no need of informations; nor had we been stunned with the dismal accounts of the rage and cruelty of the people, or the violent deaths of those who endeavoured to grow rich by commencing prosecutions. The duty had been regularly paid, the liquors had been made too dear for common use, and the name of spirits had been in a short time forgotten amongst us.

From this defect, my lords, arose all the difficulties and inconveniencies that have impeded the execution of the law, and prevented the effects that were expected from it, and by one amendment they might be all removed.

But instead of endeavouring to improve the efficacy of the remedy which was before proposed for this universal malady, we are now told, that it was too forcible to take effect, and that it only failed by the vigour of its operation. We are informed, that the work of reformation ought not to be despatched with too much expedition, that mankind cannot possibly be made virtuous at once, and that they must be drawn off from their habits by just degrees, without the violence of a sudden change.

What degrees the noble lord proposes to recommend, or what advantage he expects from allowing the people a longer time to confirm their habits, I am not able to discover. He appears to me rather to propose an experiment than a law, and rather to intend the improvement of policy, than the safety of the people.

This experiment is, indeed, of a very daring kind, in which not only the money but the lives of the people are hazarded: their money has, indeed, in all ages been subject to the caprices of statesmen, but their lives ought to be exempt from such dangerous practices, because, when once lost, they can never be recovered. By this bill, however, it is contrived to lay poison in the way of the people, poison which we know will be eagerly devoured by a fourth part of the nation, and will prove fatal to a great number of those that taste it; nor of this project is any defence made, but, that since the people love to swallow poison, it may be of advantage to the government to sell it.

It might not be improper, my lords, to publish to the people, by a formal proclamation, the benevolent intentions of their governours; and inform them, that licensed murderers are to be appointed, at whose shops they may infallibly be destroyed, without any danger of legal censures, provided they take care to use the poison prescribed by the government, and increase, by their death, the publick revenue.

That money only is desired from this bill, is not only obvious from the first perusal of it, but confessed even by those who defend it; but not one has continued to assert, that it will produce a reformation of manners, or recommended it otherwise than as an experiment.

For this reason, my lords, I still think my motion for postponing the bill very reasonable, nor do I make any scruple to confess that I propose, by postponing, only a more gentle and inoffensive method of dropping it, that some other way of raising the supplies may be attempted, or that the duty may be raised to three shillings a gallon; the lowest tax that can be laid with a design of reformation.

This method, my lords, or any other by which another bill may be procured, should be pursued; for whatever schemes the commons may substitute, the nation can suffer nothing by the change, they cannot raise money in any other manner, but with less injury to the publick; since the greatest calamity which wrong measures can possibly produce, is the propagation of wickedness, and the establishment of debauchery.

Lord BATH then spoke, in substance as follows:—My lords, that this bill is, with great propriety, called an experiment, I am ready to allow, but do not think the justness of that expression any forcible argument against it; because I know not any law that can be proposed for the same end, without equally deserving the same appellation.

All the schemes of government, my lords, have been perfected by slow degrees, and the defects of every regulation supplied by the wisdom of successive generations. No man has yet been found, whose discernment, however penetrating, has enabled him to discover all the consequences of a new law, nor to perceive all the fallacies that it includes, or all the inconveniencies that it may produce; the first essay of a new regulation is, therefore, only an experiment made, in some degree, at random, and to be rectified by subsequent observations; in making which, the most prudent conduct is only to take care that it may produce no ill consequences of great importance, before there may be an opportunity of reviewing it.

This maxim, my lords, is, in my opinion, strictly regarded in the present attempt, which in itself is an affair of very great perplexity. The health and virtue of the people are to be regarded on one part, and the continuance of a very gainful and extensive manufacture on the other; a manufacture by which only, or chiefly, the produce of our own nation is employed; and on which, therefore, the value of lands must very much depend.

Manufactures of this kind, my lords, ought never to be violently or suddenly suppressed. If they are pernicious to the nation in general, they are, at least, useful to a very great part, and to some, who have no other employment, necessary; and in the design of putting a stop to any detrimental trade, care is always to be taken that the inconvenience exceed not the benefit, and time be allowed for those that are engaged in it to withdraw to some other business, and for the commodities that are consumed by it, to be introduced at some other market, or directed to some other use.

These cautions are in this bill very judiciously observed. The trade, which all allow to administer supplies to debauchery, and fuel to diseases, will, by the provisions in this bill, sink away by degrees, and the health and virtue of the people will be preserved or restored without murmurs or commotions.

We must consider, likewise, my lords, the necessity of raising supplies, and the success with which they have hitherto been raised upon the scheme which is now under your consideration.

In examining the necessity of procuring supplies, I shall not expatiate upon the present danger of the liberties of all this part of the world; upon the distress of the house of Austria, the necessity of preserving the balance of power, or the apparent designs of the ancient and incessant disturbers of mankind, topicks which have been on former occasions sufficiently explained.

It is now only necessary to observe, that the state of our affairs requires expedition, and that a happy peace can only be expected from a successful war, and that war can only be made successful by vigour and despatch.

If by liberal grants of money, and ready concurrence in all necessary measures, we enable his majesty to raise a powerful army, there is no reason to doubt that a single campaign may procure peace, that it may establish the liberties of Europe, and raise our allies, who were so lately distressed, to their former greatness.

These supplies, my lords, which are so evidently necessary, may, by the method now proposed, be easily, speedily, and cheaply raised. Upon the security which this act will afford, large sums are already offered to the government at the low interest of three for a hundred, by those who, if the conditions of the loan are changed, will, perhaps, demand four in a few days, or raise money by a combination to the rate of five or six for a hundred; of which I would not remark how much it will embarrass the publick measures, or how much it will encourage our enemies to an obstinate resistance.

Such, my lords, are the inconveniencies to be feared from rejecting this bill, or from postponing it; by which is plainly intended only a more gentle and tender manner of rejecting it, by hinting to the commons your disapprobation of it, and the necessity of sending up another, which you cannot do without hazarding the peace of the nation and the fate of the war.

The commons, who are not obliged to inquire what reception their bills find here, may perhaps not immediately prepare another, but suffer time to elapse, till necessity shall oblige us to comply with those measures which we cannot approve.

They may, likewise, by a kind of senatorial craft, elude all our precautions, and make the rejection of the bill ineffectual, as was once done, when a bill for a tax upon leather was rejected: the commons, determining not to be directed in the methods of raising money, sent up the same bill with only a small alteration of the title, to lay a duty upon tanned hides, which the lords were, for want of time, obliged to pass.

But, my lords, should the other house discover in this single instance, any uncommon degree of flexibility and complaisance, should they patiently endure the rejection of the bill, admit the validity of the reasons upon which your lordships have proceeded, and willingly engage in drawing up a new scheme for raising supplies; even upon this supposition, which is more favourable than can reasonably be formed, the business of the year will be very much perplexed, and the new bill hurried into a law without sufficient caution or deliberation.

The session is now, my lords, so far advanced, that many of the commons have retired into the country, whose advice and assistance may be necessary in the projection of a new money bill, so that the new bill must be formed in a short time, and by a thin house; and, indeed, the multiplicity of considerations necessary to another bill of this kind, is such, that I cannot think it prudent to advise or undertake it.

The committee on ways and means must strike out another scheme for a considerable impost, which, in the present state of the nation, is in itself no easy task. This scheme must be so adjusted as to be consistent with all the other taxes, which will require long consultations and accurate inquiries. It must then struggle, perhaps, through an obstinate and artful opposition, before it can pass through the forms of the other house; and, when it comes before your lordships, may be again opposed with no less zeal than the bill before us, and perhaps, likewise, with equal reason.

All these dangers and difficulties will be avoided by trying, for a single year, the experiment which is now proposed; and which, if that should fail, may be better adjusted in the time of leisure, which the beginning of the next session will undoubtedly afford; before which time I am afraid no amendment can possibly be made.

It has been proposed, indeed, by the noble lord, that three shillings should be laid upon every gallon of distilled liquors, which would undoubtedly lessen the consumption, but would at the same time destroy the trade; a trade from which large profits may be in time gained; since our distillers have now acquired such skill, that the most delicate palate cannot distinguish their liquors from those which foreigners import.

If the duty be raised to the height proposed, it must be allowed to be repaid for all that shall be exported; otherwise foreign nations will deprive us of this part of our trade; and it has been already shown, that by mock exportations the duty may be frequently evaded.

Thus, my lords, there will be difficulties on either hand; if a duty so high be paid, the manufacturer will be ruined; if it be evaded, the consumption will be lessened.

One inconvenience will easily be discovered to be the necessary consequence of any considerable advance of the price. We may be certain that an act of the senate will not moderate the passions, or alter the appetites of the people; and that they will not be less desirous of their usual gratifications, because they are denied them. The poor may, indeed, yield to necessity, unless they find themselves able to resist the law, or to evade it; but those who can afford to please their taste, or exalt their spirits at a greater expense, will still riot as before, but with this difference, that their excesses will produce no advantage to the publick.

If an additional duty of three shillings be laid upon every gallon of distilled liquors, the product of our own distillery will be dearer than those liquors which are imported from foreign parts; and, therefore, it cannot but be expected that the money which now circulates amongst us, will in a short time be clandestinely carried into other countries.

Such, my lords, will be the effect of those taxes which are so strongly recommended; and, therefore, they ought not to be imposed till all other methods of proceeding have been found ineffectual.

It is possible, indeed, that the regulation specified in this bill may not produce any beneficial effect, and that the present practice of debauchery may still continue among the people; but it is likewise possible that this tax may, by increasing the price, augment the revenue at the same time that it lessens the consumption.

This proposal has, by some lords, been treated as a paradox; but they certainly suspected it of falsehood, only for want of patience to form the calculations necessary in such disquisitions. The tax of the last year amounted to one hundred and seventy thousand pounds; this tax is now doubled, so that the same quantity will produce three hundred and forty thousand; but if one third less should be consumed, the present tax will amount to no more than two hundred and twenty thousand pounds; and when fifty thousand licenses are added, the revenue will gain an hundred thousand pounds, though one third part of the consumption should be hindered.

But, my lords, supposing no part of the consumption hindered, I cannot think that bill should be rejected, which, in a time of danger like the present, shall add to the publick revenue an annual income of more than two hundred thousand pounds, without lessening any manufacture, without burdening any useful or virtuous part of the nation, and without giving the least occasion to any murmurs among the people.

It is to be remembered, my lords, that whatever corruption shall prevail amongst us, it cannot be imputed to this bill, which did not make, but find the nation vitiated, and only turned their vices to publick advantage; so that if it produces any diminution of the sale of spirits, it is indisputably to be applauded as promoting virtue. If the sale of spirits still continues the same, it will deserve some degree of commendation, as it will, at least, not contribute to the increase of vice, and as it will augment the revenue without injuring the people; for how, my lords, can we be censured for only suffering the nation to continue in its former state?

Lord TALBOT then spoke in substance as follows:—My lords, if we consider the tendency of the argument used by the noble lord, the only argument on which he appears to lay any stress, it will prove, if it proves any thing, what cannot be admitted by your lordships, without bidding farewell to independency, and acknowledging that you are only the substitutes of a higher power.

It appears by the tenor of his reasoning, that he considers this house as only obliged, in questions relating to supplies, to ratify the determinations of the other; to submit implicitly to their dictates, and receive their sovereign commands, without daring either to refuse compliance, or delay it.

If we conjoin the reasoning of the noble lord who spoke last, with that of one who spoke before in favour of the bill, we shall be able to discover the full extent of our power on these occasions; the first was pleased to inform us, that though we were at liberty to examine the paragraphs of this bill, we had no right, at least no power to amend them; because in money bills, the commons left us no other choice than that of passing or rejecting them.

This, my lords, might have been thought a sufficient contraction of those privileges which your ancestors transmitted to you, and the commons needed to have desired no farther concessions from this assembly, since this was a publick confession of a subordinate state, and admitted either that part of our ancient rights had been given up, or that we were at present too much depressed to dare to assert them.

We might, however, still comfort ourselves with the peaceful and uncontested possession of the alternative; we might still believe that what we could not approve we might reject, without irritating the formidable commons. But now, my lords, a new doctrine has been vented among us; we are told not only that we must not amend a money bill, but that it will be to no purpose to reject it; for that the other house will send it again without altering any thing but the title, and force it upon us, when there is no time for any other expedient.

If this, my lords, should be done, I know not how the bill might, at its second appearance, be received by other lords; for my part, I should vote immediately for rejecting it, without any alleviating or mollifying expedients. I should reject it, my lords, even on the last day of the session, without any regard to the pretended necessity of raising supplies, and without suffering myself to be terrified into compliance by the danger of the house of Austria; for though I think the balance of power on the continent necessary to be preserved at the hazard of a fleet or an army, I cannot think it of equal importance to us with the equipoise of our own government; nor can I conceive it my duty to enslave myself to secure the freedom of another.

The danger, therefore, of disgusting the commons, at this or any other juncture, shall never influence me to a tame resignation of the privileges of our own house; nor shall I willingly allow any force to arguments which are intended only to operate upon our fear; and, therefore, unless there shall appear some better plea in favour of this bill, I shall think it my duty to oppose it.

The other plea is the difficulty, or, in the style of the noble lord who spoke last, the impossibility of raising supplies by any other method. That it is not easy to raise supplies by any new tax, in a nation where almost all the necessaries of life are loaded with imposts, must be readily allowed; but that it is impossible, the folly of the people, which is at least equal to their poverty, will not suffer me to grant.

One other expedient, at least, has been already discovered by the wonderful sagacity of our new ministers; an expedient which they cannot, indeed, claim the honour of inventing, but which appears so conformable to the rest of their conduct, and so agreeable to their principles, that I doubt not but they will very often practise it, if the continuance of their power be long enough to admit of a full display of their abilities.

Amidst their tenderness for our manufactures, and their regard for commerce, they have established a lottery for eight hundred thousand pounds, by which they not only take advantage of an inclination too predominant, an inclination to grow rich rather by a lucky hazard, than successful industry; but give up the people a prey to stockjobbers, usurers, and brokers of tickets, who will plunder them without mercy, by the encouragement of those by whom it might be hoped that they would be protected from plunderers.

All lotteries, my lords, are games, which are not more honest or more useful for being legal; and the objection which has been made to all other games, and which has never yet been answered, will be found equally valid when applied to them. They engross that attention which might be employed in improving or extending our manufactures; they swallow that money which might circulate in useful trade; they give the idle and the diligent an equal prospect of riches; and by conferring unexpected wealth upon those who never deserved it, and know not how to use it, they promote extravagance and luxury, insolence and dissoluteness.

But these consequences, my lords, and a thousand others equally important, equally formidable, may be objected without effect, against any scheme by which money will be raised; money! the only end at which our ministers have aimed for almost half a century; money! by which only they have preserved the favour of the court, and the obedience of the senate; money! which has supplied the place of wisdom at one time, and of courage at another.

To gain money, my lords, they have injured trade by establishing a lottery; and they are now about to sacrifice the health and virtue of the people, to the preservation of a trade by which money may be furnished to the government. This, my lords, is their only design, however they may act, or whatever they may profess; if they endeavour to protect either the trade or lives of people, it is only because they expect a continuance of taxes from them; and when more desperate measures are necessary for the same purposes, they ruin their trade by one project, and destroy their lives by another.

Lord LONSDALE next spoke, to this effect:—My lords, it is not without the utmost grief and indignation, that I find this house considered by some who have spoken in vindication of this bill, as obliged to comply with any proposals sent up by the commons for raising money, however destructive to the publick, or however contrary to the dictates of our conscience, or convictions of our reason.

What is this, my lords, but once more to vote ourselves useless? What but to be the first that shall destroy the constitution of the government, and give up that liberty which our ancestors established?

That this is really the design of any of the noble lords, who have spoken in vindication of the bill, and have asserted the necessity of passing it, without any attempts to amend it, I am very far from affirming; but certainly, my lords, this, and this only, is the consequence of their positions, with whatever intention they may have advanced them; for how, my lords, can we call ourselves independent, if we are to receive the commands of the other house? or with what propriety can we assume the title of legislators, if we are to pass a bill like this without examination?

The bill now before us, my lords, is of the utmost importance to the happiness of that nation whose welfare we have hitherto been imagined to superintend. In this bill are involved not only the trade and riches, but the lives and morals of the British people; nor can we suffer it to pass unexamined, without betraying the nation to wickedness and destruction.

Should we, on this occasion, suffer ourselves to be degraded from legislators to messengers from the commons to the throne; should we be content only to transmit the laws which we ought to amend, and resign ourselves up implicitly to the wisdom of those whom we have formerly considered as our inferiours, I know not for what purpose we sit here. It would be my counsel that we should no longer attempt to preserve the appearance of power, when we have lost the substance, or submit to share the drudgery of government, without partaking of the authority.

The time of such desperation is, indeed, not yet arrived; but every act of servile compliance will bring it nearer; and, therefore, my lords, for the sake of ourselves, as well as of the people, I join the noble lord's motion for resuming the house, that farther information may be obtained both by ourselves, by the commons, and by the nation.

The duke of NEWCASTLE then rose, and spoke to the effect following:—My lords, I believe no lord in this assembly is more zealous for the advantage of the publick than myself, or more desirous to preserve the lives, or amend the morals of the people; but I cannot think that this character can justly imply any dislike of the bill now before us.

If I should admit what the noble lord has asserted, that the lives and morals of the people are affected by this bill, I cannot yet see that his inference is just, or that our compliance with the motion is, therefore, necessary.

That under the present regulation, the miseries of the nation are every day increased; that corruption spreads every day wider, and debauchery makes greater havock, is confessed on all sides; and, therefore, I can discover no reason for continuing the laws in their present state, nor can think that we ought to decline any experiment by which that disorder, which cannot be increased, may possibly be lessened.

It is confessed by the noble lords, who declare their approbation of the motion for postponing the consideration of this bill, that they intend nothing less than a gentle and tacit manner of dropping it, by showing the commons that though to avoid offence they do not absolutely reject it, yet they cannot approve it, and will not pass it; and that, therefore, the necessity of raising supplies, requires that another bill should be formed, not liable to the same objections.

The consequence of this procedure, my lords, can only be, that either the commons will form another bill for raising money, or that they will send up this again with a new title, and such slight alterations as not the happiness of the nation, but the forms of the senate demand.

If, in return for our endeavours to reform a bill, of which they think themselves the only constitutional judges, they should send it again with only another title; what, my lords, shall we procure by the delay, but a new occasion of murmurs and discontent, a new confirmation of the power of the commons, and an establishment of senatorial chicanery, at once pernicious to the publick, and ignominious to ourselves.

That the commons, in sending back a bill that has been rejected in this house, with only a change in the title, act contrary to the end of senatorial consultations, though consistently with their external forms, cannot be denied: but as each house is without any dependence on the other, such deviations from the principles of our constitution, however injurious to our authority, or however detrimental to the nation, cannot be punished, nor otherwise prevented, than by caution and prudence.

If, therefore, the commons, as they have formerly done, should return the bill without alteration, we shall only have impaired our own authority, and shaken the foundations of our government by a fruitless opposition. Nor shall we gain any advantage, though they should comply with our expectations, and employ the little time that remains in contriving a new tax; for corruption must then proceed without opposition, the people must grow every day more vitious, and debauchery will, in a short time, grow too general to be suppressed.

With regard to the bill before us, the only question that is necessary or proper, is, whether it will promote or hinder the consumption of distilled liquors? for as to the effects of those liquors, those that vindicate, and that oppose this bill, are of the same opinion; and all will readily allow, that if the law now proposed shall be found to increase the consumption which it was intended to diminish, it ought immediately to be repealed, as destructive to the people, and contrary to the end for which it was designed; but if the additional duties shall produce any degree of restraint, if they shall hinder the consumption even of a very small part, I think it must be allowed that the provisions are just and useful; since it has already appeared, that this vice is too deeply rooted to be torn up at once; and that, therefore, it is to be pruned away by imperceptible diminution.

Whether the provisions now offered in the bill might not admit of improvements; whether some other more efficacious expedients might not be discovered; and whether the duties might not be raised yet higher, with more advantage to the publick, may undoubtedly admit of long disputes and deep inquiries; but for these inquiries and disputes, my lords, there is at present no time: the affairs of the continent require our immediate interposition, the general oppressors of the western world are now endeavouring to extend their dominions, and exalt their power beyond the possibility of future opposition; and our allies, who were straggling against them, can no longer continue their efforts without assistance.

At a time like this, my lords, it is not proper to delay the supplies by needless controversies; or, indeed, by any disputes which may, without great inconvenience, be delayed to a time of tranquillity, a time when all our inquiries may be prosecuted at leisure, when every argument may be considered in its full extent, and when the improvement of our laws ought, indeed, to be our principal care. At present it appears to me, that every method of raising money, without manifest injury to the morals of the people, deserves our approbation; and, therefore, that we ought to pass this bill, though it should not much hinder the consumption of spirituous liquors, if it shall barely appear that it will not increase it.

It is at least proper, that, at this pressing exigence, those that oppose the bills by which supplies are to be raised, should, by offering other expedients, show that their opposition proceeds not from any private malevolence to the ministry, or any prepossession against the publick measures, but from a steady adherence to just principles, and an impartial regard for the publick good; for it may be suspected, that he who only busies himself in pulling down, without any attempts to repair the breaches that he has made, with more fit or durable materials, has no real design of strengthening the fortification.

It has been proposed, indeed, by one of the noble lords, that a tax of three shillings a gallon should be laid upon all distilled spirits, and collected by the laws of excise at the still-head, which would doubtless secure a great part of the people from the temptations to which they are at present exposed, but would at the same time produce another effect not equally to be desired.

I have been informed, my lords, upon mentioning this proposal in conversation, that such duties will raise the price of the liquors distilled among us above that of foreign countries; and that, therefore, not only all our foreign trade of this kind would be immediately destroyed, but that many of those who now drink our own spirits, only because they are cheaper, will then purchase those of foreign countries, which are generally allowed to be more pleasant.

That this is really the state of the affair, I do not affirm; for I now relate only what I have heard from others; but surely the imposition of so heavy a duty requires a long consideration; nor can it be improper to mention any objections, the discussion of which may contribute to our information.

But any other regulations than those now offered, will require so many inquiries, and so long consultation, that the senate will expect to be dismissed from their attendance, before any resolutions are formed; and when once the supplies are provided, we shall find ourselves obliged to leave the law relating to spirituous liquors in its present state.

Then, my lords, will the enemies of the government imagine that they have a new opportunity of gratifying their malignity, by censuring us as wholly negligent of the publick happiness, and charge us with looking without concern upon the debauchery, the diseases, and the poverty of the people, without any compassion of their wants, or care of their reformation.

That to continue the present law any longer, will be only to amuse ourselves with ineffectual provisions, is universally allowed; nor is there any difference of opinion with regard to the present state of the vice which we are now endeavouring to hinder. The last law was well intended, but was dictated by anger, and ratified by zeal; and therefore was too violent to be executed, and, instead of reforming, exasperated the nation.

No sooner, therefore, did the magistrates discover the inflexible resolution of the people, their furious persecution of informers, and their declared hatred of all those who concurred in depriving them of this dangerous pleasure, than they were induced, by regard to their own safety, to relax that severity which was enjoined, and were contented to purchase safety by gratifying, or, at least, by not opposing those passions of the multitude, which they could not hope to control; the practice of drinking spirits continued, and the consumption was every year greater than the former.

This, my lords, is the present state of the nation; a state sufficiently deplorable, and which all the laws of humanity and justice command us to alter. This is the universal declaration. We all agree, that the people grow every day more corrupt, and that this corruption ought to be stopped; but by what means is yet undecided.

Violent methods and extremity of rigour have been already tried, and totally defeated; it is, therefore, proposed to try more easy and gentle regulations, that shall produce, by slow degrees, the reformation which cannot be effected by open force; these new regulations appear to many lords not sufficiently coercive, and are imagined still less likely to reform a vice so inveterate, and so firmly established.

These opinions I cannot flatter myself with the hope of reconciling; but must yet observe, that the consumption of these liquors, as of all other commodities, can only be lessened by proper duties, and that every additional imposition has a tendency to lessen them; and since, so far as it extends, it can produce no ill effects, deserves the approbation of those who sincerely desire to suppress this odious vice that has so much prevailed, and been so widely diffused.

It is, indeed, possible, that the duties now proposed may be found not sufficient; but for this defect there is an easy remedy. The duty, if it be found, by the experience of a single year, to be too small, may, in the next, be easily augmented, and swelled, by annual increases, even to the height which is now proposed, if no remedy more easy can be found.

It may be objected, that this fund will be mortgaged for the payment of the sums employed in the service of the war; and that, therefore, the state of the duty cannot afterwards be altered without injustice to the publick creditors, and a manifest violation of the faith of the senate; but, my lords, though in the hurry of providing for a pressing and important war, the commons could not find any other method so easy of raising money, it cannot be doubted but that when they consider the state of the nation at leisure, they will easily redeem this tax, if it shall appear inconvenient, and substitute some other, less injurious to the happiness of the publick.

It was not impossible for them to have done this in the beginning of this session; nor can it be supposed, that men so long versed in publick affairs, could not easily have proposed many other imposts; but it may be imagined, that they chose this out of many, without suspecting that it would be opposed; and believed, that they were at once raising supplies, and protecting the virtue of the people.

Nor, indeed, my lords, does it yet appear that they have been mistaken; for though the arguments of the noble lords who oppose the bill are acute and plausible, yet since they agree that the consumption of these liquors is, at last, to be hindered by raising their price, it is reasonable to conceive, that every augmentation of the price must produce a proportionate diminution of the consumption; and that, therefore, this duty will contribute, in some degree, to the reformation of the people. It seems, at least, in the highest degree probable, that it cannot increase the evil which it is intended to remedy; and that, therefore, we may reasonably concur in it, as it will furnish the government with supplies, without any inconvenience to those that pay them.

The bishop of OXFORD next spoke to this effect:—My lords, this subject has already been so acutely considered, and so copiously discussed, that I rise up in despair of proposing any thing new, of explaining any argument more clearly, or urging it more forcibly, of starting any other subject of consideration, or pointing out any circumstance yet untouched in those that have been proposed.

Yet, my lords, though I cannot hope to add any thing to the knowledge which your lordships have already obtained of the subject in debate, I think it my duty to add one voice to the truth, and to declare, that in the balance of my understanding, the arguments against the bill very much outweigh those that have been offered in its favour.

It is always presumed by those who vindicate it, that every augmentation of the price will necessarily produce a proportionate decrease of the consumption. This, my lords, is the chief, if not the only argument that has been advanced, except that which is drawn from the necessity of raising supplies, and the danger of disgusting the other house. But this argument, my lords, is evidently fallacious; and therefore the bill, if it passes, must pass without a single reason, except immediate convenience.

Let us examine, my lords, this potent argument, which has been successively urged by all who have endeavoured to vindicate the bill, and echoed from one to another with all the confidence of irrefragability; let us consider on what suppositions it is founded, and we shall soon find how easily it will be dissipated.

It is supposed, by this argument, that every drinker of these liquors spends as much as he can possibly procure; and that therefore the least additional price must place part of his pleasure beyond his reach. This, my lords, cannot be generally true; it is perhaps generally, if not universally false. It cannot be doubted, but that many of those who corrupt their minds and bodies with these pernicious draughts, are above the necessity of constraining their appetites to escape so small an expense as that which is now to be imposed upon them; and even of those whose poverty can sink no lower, who are in reality exhausted by every day's debauch, it is at least as likely that they will insist upon more pay for their work, or that they will steal with more rapacity, as that they will suffer themselves to be debarred from the pleasures of drunkenness.

It is not certain that this duty will make these liquors dearer to those who drink them; since the distiller will more willingly deduct from his present profit the small tax that is now proposed, than suffer the trade to sink; and even if that tax should be, as is usual, levied upon the retailer, it has been already observed, that, in the quantities necessary to drunkenness, it will not be perceptible.

But, my lords, though this argument appears thus weak upon the first and slightest consideration, the chief fallacy is still behind. Those, who have already initiated themselves in debauchery, deserve not the chief consideration of this assembly; they are, for the greatest part, hopeless and abandoned, and can only be withheld by force from complying with those desires to which they are habitually enslaved. They may, indeed, be sometimes punished, and at other times restrained, but cannot often be reformed.

Those, my lords, who are yet uncorrupted, ought first to engage our care; virtue is easily preserved, but difficultly regained. But for those what regard has hitherto been shown? What effect can be expected from this bill, but that of exposing them to temptations, by placing unlawful pleasures in their view? pleasures, which, however unworthy of human nature, are seldom forsaken after they have once been tasted.

In the consideration of the present question, it is to be remembered, that multitudes are already corrupted, and the contagion grows more dangerous in proportion as greater numbers are infected.

To stop the progress of this pestilence, my lords, ought to be the governing passion of our minds; to this point ought all our aims to be directed, and for this end ought all our projects to be calculated.

But how, my lords, is this purpose promoted by a law which gives a license, an unlimited and cheap license, for the sale of that liquor, to which, even those who support the bill impute the present corruption of the people? This surely is no rational scheme of reformation, nor can it be imagined, that a favourite and inveterate vice is to be extirpated by such gentle methods.

Let us consider, my lords, more nearly the effects of this new-invented regulation, and we shall see how we may expect from them the recovery of publick virtue. A law is now to be repealed, by which the use of distilled liquors is prohibited, but which has not been for some time put in execution, or not with vigour sufficient to surmount the difficulties and inconveniencies by which its operation was obstructed. The law is, however, yet in force, and whoever sells spirits must now sell them at the hazard of prosecution and penalties, and with an implicit confidence in the kindness and fidelity of the purchaser.

It cannot be supposed, my lords, but that a law like this must have some effect. It cannot be doubted that some are honest and others timorous; and that among the wretches who are most to be suspected of this kind of debauchery, there are some in whom it is not safe to confide; they, therefore, must sometimes be hindered from destroying their reason by other restraints than want of money; and, when they are trusted with the secret of an illegal trade, must pay a dearer rate for the danger that is incurred.

But when this law is repealed, and every street and alley has a shop licensed to distribute this delicious poison, what can we expect? The most sanguine advocate for the bill cannot surely hope, that any of those who now drink spirits will refrain from them, only because they are sold without danger; and though what cannot be proved, or even hoped, should be admitted, that some must content themselves with a smaller quantity on account of the advanced price, yet while they take all opportunities of debauchery, while they spend, in this destructive liquor, all that either honest labour or daring theft will supply, they must always be examples of intemperance; such examples as, from the experience of late years, we have reason to believe will find many imitators; and therefore will promote at once the consumption of spirits, and the corruption of the people.

There is always to be found in wickedness a detestable ambition of gaining proselytes: every man who has suffered himself to be corrupted, is desirous to hide himself from infamy in crowds as vitious as himself, or desires companions in wickedness from the same natural inclination to society, which prompts almost every man to avoid singularity on other occasions.

Whatever be the reason, it may be every day observed, that the great pleasure of the vitious is to vitiate others; nor is it possible to squander an hour in the assemblies of debauchees of any rank, without observing with what importunity innocence is attacked, and how many arts of sophistry and ridicule are used to weaken the influence of virtue, and suppress the struggles of conscience.

The fatal art by which virtue is most commonly overborne is the frequent repetition of temptations, which, though often rejected, will at some unhappy moment generally prevail, and, therefore, ought to be removed; but which this bill is intended to place always in sight.

To what purpose will it be, my lords, to deprive nine hardened profligates of a tenth part of the liquor which they now drink, which is the utmost that this duty will effect? If they have an opportunity of corrupting one by their solicitation and example, the difference between nine and ten acts of debauchery is of very small importance to mankind, or even to the persons who are thus restrained, since their forbearance of the utmost excesses is only the effect of their poverty, not of their virtue.

How far is such restraint from being equivalent to the corruption of one mind, yet pure and undebauched! to the seduction of one heart from virtue, and a new addition to the interest and prevalence of wickedness! If it be necessary that the supplies should be raised for the government by the use of this pernicious liquor, it is desirable that it should be confined to few, and that it should rather be swallowed in large quantities by hopeless drunkards, than offered everywhere to the taste of innocence and youth, in licensed houses of wickedness.

The consumption will, for a time, be the same in both cases, but with this important difference, that wickedness would only be continued, not promoted; and as the poison would rid the land by degrees of the present race of profligates, it might be hoped, that our posterity would be uninfected.

But under the present scheme of regulations, my lords, vice will be propagated under the countenance of the legislature; and that kind of wickedness by which the nation is so infatuated that it has increased yearly, in opposition to a penal law, will now not only be suffered, but encouraged, and enjoy not impunity only, but protection.

Thus, if we pass the bill, we shall not even be able to boast the petty merit of leaving the nation in its present state; we shall take away the present restraints of vice, without substituting any in their place; we shall, perhaps, deprive a few hardened drunkards of a small part of the liquor which they now swallow, but shall open, according to the expectation of the noble lord, fifty thousand houses of licensed debauchery for the ruin of millions yet untainted.

To leave the nation in its present state, which is allowed on all hands to be a state of corruption, seems to be the utmost ambition of one of the noble lords, who has pleaded with the greatest warmth for this bill; for he concluded, with an air of triumph, by asking, how we can be censured for only suffering the nation to continue in its former state?

We may be, in my opinion, my lords, censured as traitors to our trust, and enemies to our country, if we permit any vice to prevail, when it is in our power to suppress it. We may be cursed, with justice, by posterity, as the abettors of that debauchery by which poverty and disease shall be entailed upon them, contemned in the present as the flatterers of those appetites which we ought to regulate, and insulted by that populace whom we dare not oppose.

Had none of our predecessors endeavoured the reformation of the people, had they contented themselves always to leave the nation as they found it, there had been long ago an end of all the order and security of society; for the natural depravity of human nature has always a tendency from less to greater evil; and the same causes which had made us thus wicked, will, if not obviated, make us worse.

Since the noble lord thinks it not necessary to attempt the reformation of the people, he might have spared the elaborate calculation by which he has proved, that a large sum wilt be gained by the government, though one third part of the consumption be prevented; for it is of very little importance to discuss the consequences of an event which will never happen. He should first have proved, that a third part of the consumption will in reality be prevented, and then he might very properly have consoled the ministry, by showing how much they would gain from the residue.

That this bill, as it now stands, will produce a large revenue to the government, but no reformation in the people, is asserted by those that oppose, and undoubtedly believed by those that defend it; but as this is not the purpose which I am most desirous of promoting, I cannot but think it my duty to agree to the proposal of the noble lord, that by postponing the consideration of the bill, more exact information may be obtained by us, and the commons may be alarmed at the danger into which the nation has been brought by their precipitation.

Lord BATH then rose again, and spoke to the following effect:—My lords, as the noble lord who has just spoken appears to have misapprehended some of my assertions, I think it necessary to rise again, that I may explain with sufficient clearness what, perhaps, I before expressed obscurely, amidst the number of different considerations that crowded my imagination.

With regard to the diminution that might be expected from this law, I did not absolutely assert, at least, I did not intend to assert, that a third part would be taken off; but only advanced that supposition as the basis of a calculation, by which I might prove what many lords appeared to doubt, that the consumption might possibly be diminished, and yet the revenue increased.

Upon this supposition, which must be allowed to be reasonable, both the purposes of the bill will be answered, and the publick supplies will be raised by the suppression of vice.

The diminution of the consumption may be greater or less than I have supposed. If it be greater, the revenue will be, indeed, less augmented; but the purposes which, in the opinion of the noble lords who oppose the bill, are more to be regarded, will be better promoted, and all their arguments against it will be, at least, defeated; nor will the ministry, I hope, regret the failure of a tax which is deficient only by the sobriety of the nation.

If the diminution be less than I have supposed, yet if there be any diminution, it cannot be said that the bill has been wholly without effect, or that the ministry have not proceeded either with more judgment or better fortune than their predecessors, or that they have not, at least, taken advantage of the errours that have been committed. It must be owned, that they have either reformed the nation, or at least pointed out the way by which the reformation that has been so long desired, may be effected.

That this tax will in some degree hinder drunkenness, it is reasonable to expect, because it can only be hindered by taxing the liquors which are used in excess; but there yet remain, concerning the weight of the tax that ought to be laid upon them, doubts which nothing but experience can, I believe, remove.

By experience, my lords, we have been already taught, that taxes may be so heavy as to be without effect; that restraint may be so violent as to produce impatience; and, therefore, it is proper in the next essay to proceed by slow degrees and gentle methods, and produce that effect imperceptibly which we find ourselves unable to accomplish at once.

I cannot therefore think, that the duty of three shillings a gallon can be imposed without defeating our own design, and compelling the people to find out some method of eluding the law like that which was practised after the act, by which in the second year of his present majesty, five shillings were imposed upon every gallon of compound waters; after which it is well known, that the distillers sold a simple spirit under the contemptuous title of senatorial brandy, and the law being universally evaded, was soon after repealed as useless.

Such, my lords, or worse, will be the consequence of the tax which the noble lord has proposed; for if it cannot be evaded, spirits will be brought from nations that have been wiser than to burden their own commodities with such insupportable impost, and the empire will soon be impoverished by the exportation of its money.

Lord HERVEY answered, in substance as follows:—My lords, I am very far from thinking the arguments of the noble lord such as can influence men desirous to promote the real and durable happiness of their country; for he is solicitous only about the prosperity of the British manufactures, and the preservation of the British trade, but has shown very little regard to British virtue.

That part of his argument is, therefore, not necessary to be answered, if the suggestion upon which it is founded were true, since it will be sufficient to compare the advantage of the two schemes. And with regard to his insinuation, that senatorial brandy may be revived by a high duty, I believe, first, that, no such evasion can be contrived, and in the next place am confident, that it may be defeated by burdening the new-invented liquor, whatever it be, if it be equally pernicious, with an equal tax. The path of our duty, my lords, is plain and easy, and only represented difficult by those who are inclined to deviate from it.

Lord BATHURST spoke next, to the effect following:—My lords, whatever measures may be practised by the people for eluding the purposes of the bill now before us, with whatever industry they may invent new kinds of senatorial brandy, or by whatever artifices they may escape the diligence of the officers employed to collect a duty levied upon their vices and their pleasures, there is, at least, no danger that they will purchase from the continent those liquors which we are endeavouring to withhold from them, or that this bill will impoverish our country by promoting a trade contrary to its interest.

What would be the consequence of the duty of three shillings a gallon, proposed by the noble lord, it is easy to judge. What, my lords, can be expected from it, but that it will either oblige or encourage the venders of spirits to procure from other places what they can no longer buy for reasonable prices at home? and that those drunkards who cannot or will not suddenly change their customs, will purchase from abroad the pleasures which we withhold from them, and the wealth of the nation be daily diminished, but the virtue little increased?

Thus, my lords, shall we at once destroy our own manufacture and promote that of our neighbours. Thus shall we enrich other governments by distressing our own, and instead of increasing sobriety, only encourage a more expensive and pernicious kind of debauchery.

In the bill now under our consideration, a middle way is proposed, by which reformation may be introduced by those gradations which have always been found necessary when inveterate vices are to be encountered. In this bill every necessary consideration appears to have been regarded, the health of the people will be preserved, and their virtue recovered, without destroying their trade or starving their manufacturers.

The efficacy of this bill seems, indeed, to be allowed by some of the lords who oppose it, since their chief objection has arisen from their doubts whether it can be executed. If a law be useless in itself, it is of no importance whether it is executed or not; and, therefore, I think it may safely be inferred, that they who are solicitous how it may be enforced, are convinced of its usefulness.

If this, my lords, be the chief objection now remaining, a little consideration will easily remove it; for it is well known, that the only obstruction of the former law was the danger of information; but this law, my lords, is so contrived, that it will promote the execution of itself; for by setting licenses at so low a price, their number will be multiplied, and every man who has taken a license will think himself justified in informing against him that shall retail spirits without a legal right.

If, therefore, there should be, as a noble lord has very reasonably supposed, fifty thousand licensed venders of these liquors, there will likewise be fifty thousand informers against unlawful traders; and as the liquors may then always be had under sanction of the law, the populace will not interest themselves in that process which can have no tendency to obstruct their pleasure.

Thus, my lords, shall we, by agreeing to this bill, make a law that will be at once useful to the government and beneficial to the people, which will be at once powerful in its effects and easy in its execution; and, therefore, instead of attending any more to the wild and impracticable schemes of heavy taxes, rigorous punishments, sudden reformations, and violent restraints, I hope we shall unanimously approve this method, from which so much may be hoped, while nothing is hazarded.

Lord CARTERET then rose up, and spoke in substance as follows:—My lords, though the noble lord who has been pleased to incite us to an unanimous concurrence with himself and his associates of the ministry, in passing this excellent and wonder-working bill, this bill, which is to lessen the consumption of spirits, without lessening the quantity which is distilled, which is to restrain drunkards from drinking, by setting their favourite liquor always before their eyes, to conquer habits by continuing them, and correct vice by indulging it, according to the lowest reckoning, for at least another year; yet, my lords, such is my obstinacy, or such my ignorance, that I cannot yet comply with his proposal, nor can prevail with myself either to concur with measures so apparently opposite to the interest of the publick, or to hear them vindicated, without declaring how little I approve them.

During the course of this long debate I have endeavoured to recapitulate and digest the arguments which have been advanced, and have considered them both separate and conjoined; but find myself at the same distance from conviction as when I entered the house; nor do I imagine, that they can much affect any man who does not voluntarily assist them by strong prejudice.

In vindication of this bill, my lords, we have been told that the present law is ineffectual; that our manufacture is not to be destroyed, or not this year; that the security offered by the present bill has induced great numbers to subscribe to the new fund; that it has been approved by the commons; and that, if it be found ineffectual, it may be amended another session.

All these arguments, my lords, I shall endeavour to examine, because I am always desirous of gratifying those great men to whom the administration of affairs is intrusted, and have always very cautiously avoided the odium of disaffection which they will undoubtedly throw, in imitation of their predecessors, upon all those whose wayward consciences shall oblige them to hinder the execution of their schemes.

With a very strong desire, therefore, though with no great hopes of finding them in the right, I venture to begin my inquiry, and engage in the examination of their first assertion, that the present law against the abuse of strong liquors is without effect.

I hope, my lords, it portends well to my inquiry, that the first position which I have to examine is true, nor can I forbear to congratulate your lordships upon having heard from the new ministry one assertion not to be contradicted.

It is evident, my lords, from daily observation, and demonstrable from the papers upon the table, that every year, since the enaction of the last law, that vice has increased which it was intended to repress, and that no time has been so favourable to the retailers of spirits as that which has passed since they were prohibited.

It may, therefore, be expected, my lords, that having agreed with the ministers in their fundamental proposition, I shall concur with them in the consequence which they draw from it; and having allowed that the present law is ineffectual, should admit that another is necessary.

But, my lords, in order to discover whether this consequence be necessary, it must first be inquired why the present law is of no force? For, my lords, it will be found, upon reflection, that there are certain degrees of corruption that may hinder the effects of the best laws. The magistrates may be vitious, and forbear to enforce that law, by which themselves are condemned; they may be indolent, and inclined rather to connive at wickedness by which they are not injured themselves, than to repress it by a laborious exertion of their authority; or they may be timorous, and, instead of awing the vitious, may be awed by them.

In any of these cases, my lords, the law is not to be condemned for its inefficacy, since it only fails by the defect of those who are to direct its operations; the best and most important laws will contribute very little to the security or happiness of a people, if no judges of integrity and spirit can be found amongst them. Even the most beneficial and useful bill that ministers can possibly imagine, a bill for laying on our estates a tax of the fifth part of their yearly value, would be wholly without effect, if collectors could not be obtained.

I am, therefore, my lords, yet doubtful, whether the inefficacy of the law now subsisting necessarily obliges us to provide another; for those that declared it to be useless, owned at the same time, that no man endeavoured to enforce it; so that, perhaps, its only defect may be, that it will not execute itself.

Nor though I should allow, that the law is at present impeded by difficulties which cannot be broken through, but by men of more spirit and dignity than the ministers may be inclined to trust with commissions of the peace, yet it can only be collected, that another law is necessary, not that the law now proposed will be of any advantage.

Great use has been made of the inefficacy of the present law to decry the proposal made by the noble lord for laying a high duty upon these pernicious liquors. High duties have already, as we are informed, been tried without advantage; high duties are at this hour imposed upon those spirits which are retailed, yet we see them every day sold in the streets without the payment of the tax required; and, therefore, it will be folly to make a second essay of means which have been found, by the experience of many years, unsuccessful.

It has been granted on all sides in this debate, nor was it ever denied on any other occasion, that the consumption of any commodity is most easily to be hindered by raising its price, and its price is to be raised by the imposition of a duty; this, my lords, which is, I suppose, the opinion of every man, of whatever degree of experience or understanding, appears likewise to have been thought by the authors of the present law; and, therefore, they imagined, that they had effectually provided against the increase of drunkenness, by laying upon that liquor which should be retailed in small quantities, a duty which none of the inferiour classes of drunkards would be able to pay.

Thus, my lords, they conceived that they had reformed the common people, without infringing the pleasures of others, and applauded the happy contrivance by which spirits were to be made dear only to the poor, while every man who could afford to purchase two gallons, was at liberty to riot at his ease, and over a full flowing bumper look down with contempt upon his former companions, now ruthlessly condemned to disconsolate sobriety, or obliged to regale themselves with liquor which did no speedy execution upon their cares, but held them for many tedious hours in a languishing possession of their senses and their limbs.

But, my lords, this intention was frustrated, and the project, ingenious as it was, fell to the ground; for though they had laid a tax, they unhappily forgot that this tax would make no addition to the price, unless it was paid; and that it would not be paid, unless some were empowered to collect it.

Here, my lords, was the difficulty; those who made the law were inclined to lay a tax from which themselves should be exempt, and, therefore, would not charge the liquor as it issued from the still; and when once it was dispersed in the hands of petty dealers, it was no longer to be found without the assistance of informers, and informers could not carry on the business of persecution without the consent of the people.

It is not necessary to dwell any longer upon the law of which the repeal is proposed, since it appears already, that it failed only from a partiality not easily defended, and from the omission of what is now proposed, the collection of the duty as the liquor is distilled.

If this method be followed, there will be no longer any need of information, or of any rigorous or new measures; the same officers that collect a smaller duty may levy a greater, nor can they be easily deceived with regard to the quantities that are made; the deceits, at least, that can be used, are in use already; they are frequently detected and suppressed; nor will a larger duty enable the distillers to elude the vigilance of the officers with more success.

Against this proposal, therefore, the inefficacy of the present law can be no objection; but it is urged, that such duties would destroy the trade of distilling; and a noble lord has been pleased to express great tenderness for a manufacture so beneficial and extensive.

I cannot but sometimes wonder, my lords, at the amazing variety of intellects, which every day furnishes some opportunity or other of observing, and which cannot but be remarked on this occasion, when one produces against a proposal the very argument which another offers in its favour. That a large duty levied at the still would destroy or very much impair the trade of distilling, is certainly supposed by those who defend it, for they proposed it only for that end; and what better method can they propose, when they are called to deliberate upon a bill for the prevention of the excessive use of distilled liquors?

The noble lord has been pleased kindly to inform us, that the trade of distilling is very extensive, that it employs great numbers, and that they have arrived at exquisite skill, and therefore,—note well the consequence—the trade of distilling is not to be discouraged.

Once more, my lords, allow me to wonder at the different conceptions of different understandings. It appears to me, that since the spirits which the distillers produce are allowed to enfeeble the limbs, and vitiate the blood, to pervert the heart, and obscure the intellects, that the number of distillers should be no argument in their favour! For I never heard that a law against theft was repealed or delayed, because thieves were numerous. It appears to me, my lords, that if so formidable a body are confederated against the virtue or the lives of their fellow-citizens, it is time to put an end to the havock, and to interpose, while it is yet in our power to stop the destruction.

As little, my lords, am I affected with the merit of the wonderful skill which the distillers are said to have attained: it is, in my opinion, no faculty of great use to mankind, to prepare palatable poison; nor shall I ever contribute my interest for the reprieve of a murderer, because he has, by long practice, obtained great dexterity in his trade.

If their liquors are so delicious, that the people are tempted to their own destruction, let us at length, my lords, secure them from these fatal draughts, by bursting the vials that contain them; let us crush, at once, these artists in slaughter, who have reconciled their countrymen to sickness and to ruin, and spread over the pitfals of debauchery such baits as cannot be resisted.

The noble lord has, indeed, admitted, that this bill may not be found sufficiently coercive, but gives us hopes that it may be improved and enforced another year, and persuades us to endeavour the reformation of drunkenness by degrees, and above all, to beware, at present, of hurting the manufacture.

I am very far, my lords, from thinking, that there are this year any peculiar reasons for tolerating murder; nor can I conceive why the manufacture should be held sacred now, if it be to be destroyed hereafter; we are, indeed, desired to try how far this law will operate, that we may be more able to proceed with due regard to this valuable manufacture.

With regard to the operation of the law, it appears to me that it will only enrich the government without reforming the people, and I believe there are not many of a different opinion: if any diminution of the sale of spirits be expected from it, it is to be considered, that this diminution will or will not be such as is desired for the reformation of the people; if it be sufficient, the manufacture is at an end, and all the reasons against a higher duty are of equal force against this; but if it is not sufficient, we have, at least, omitted part of our duty, and have neglected the health and virtue of the people.

I cannot, my lords, yet discover, why a reprieve is desired for this manufacture; why the present year is not equally propitious to the reformation of mankind as any will be that may succeed it. It is true we are at war with two nations, and, perhaps, with more; but war may be better prosecuted without money than without men, and we but little consult the military glory of our country, if we raise supplies for paying our armies, by the destruction of those armies that we are contriving to pay.

We have heard the necessity of reforming the nation by degrees urged as an argument for imposing first a lighter duty, and afterwards a heavier; this complaisance for wickedness, my lords, is not so defensible as that it should be battered by arguments in form, and therefore I shall only relate a reply made by Webb, the noted walker, upon a parallel occasion.

This man, who must be remembered by many of your lordships, was remarkable for vigour, both of mind and body, and lived wholly upon water for his drink, and chiefly upon vegetables for his other sustenance: he was one day recommending his regimen to one of his friends who loved wine, and who, perhaps, might somewhat contribute to the prosperity of this spirituous manufacture, and urged him, with great earnestness, to quit a course of luxury by which his health and his intellects would equally be destroyed. The gentleman appeared convinced, and told him, that he would conform to his counsel, and thought he could not change his course of life at once, but would leave off strong liquors by degrees. By degrees, says the other, with indignation! if you should unhappily fall into the fire, would you caution your servants not to pull you out but by degrees?

This answer, my lords, is applicable in the present case; the nation is sunk into the lowest state of corruption, the people are not only vitious, but insolent beyond example; they not only break the laws, but defy them; and yet some of your lordships are for reforming them by degrees.

I am not easily persuaded, my lords, that our ministers really intend to supply the defects that may hereafter be discovered in this bill; it will doubtless produce money, perhaps much more than they appear to expect from it; I doubt not but the licensed retailers will be more than fifty thousand, and the quantity retailed must increase with the number of retailers. As the bill will, therefore, answer all the ends intended by it, I do not expect to see it altered, for I have never observed ministers desirous of amending their own errours, unless they are such as produce a deficiency in the revenue.

Besides, my lords, it is not certain, that when this fund is mortgaged to the publick creditors, they can prevail upon the commons to change the security; they may continue the bill in force for the reasons, whatever they are, for which they have passed it, and the good intentions of our ministers, however sincere, may be defeated, and drunkenness, legal drunkenness, established in the nation.

This, my lords, is very reasonable; and therefore we ought to exert ourselves for the safety of the nation, while the power is yet in our own hands, and without regard to the opinion or proceedings of the other house, show that we are yet the chief guardians of the people, and the most vigilant adversaries of wickedness.

The ready compliance of the commons with the measures proposed in this bill, has been mentioned here with a view, I suppose, of influencing us, but surely by those who had forgotten our independence, or resigned their own. It is not only the right, but the duty of either house, to deliberate without regard to the determinations of the other; for how would the nation receive any benefit from the distinct powers that compose the legislature, unless their determinations are without influence upon each other? If either the example or authority of the commons can divert us from following our own convictions, we are no longer part of the legislature; we have given up our honours and our privileges, and what then is our concurrence but slavery, or our suffrage but an echo?

The only argument, therefore, that now remains, is the expediency of gratifying those by whose ready subscription the exigencies which the counsels of our new statesmen have brought upon us, and of continuing the security by which they have been encouraged to such liberal contributions.

Publick credit, my lords, is, indeed, of very great importance, but publick credit can never be long supported without publick virtue; nor indeed if the government could mortgage the morals and health of the people, would it be just or rational to confirm the bargain. If the ministry can raise money only by the destruction of their fellow-subjects, they ought to abandon those schemes for which the money is necessary: for what calamity can be equal to unbounded wickedness?

But, my lords, there is no necessity for a choice which may cost us or our ministers so much regret; for the same subscriptions may be procured by an offer of the same advantages to a fund of any other kind, and the sinking fund will easily supply any deficiency that might be suspected in another scheme.

To confess the truth, I should feel very little pain from an account that the nation was for some time determined to be less liberal of their contribution, and that money was withheld till it was known in what expeditions it was to be employed, to what princes subsidies were to be paid, and what advantages were to be purchased by it for our country. I should rejoice my lords, to hear that the lottery by which the deficiencies of this duty are to be supplied, was not filled; and that the people were grown at last wise enough to discern the fraud, and to prefer honest commerce, by which all may be gainers, to a game by which the greatest number must certainly lose, and in which no man can reasonably expect that he shall be the happy favourite of fortune, on whom a prize shall be conferred.

The lotteries, my lords, which former ministers have proposed, have always been censured by those that saw their nature and their tendency; they have been considered as legal cheats, by which the ignorant and the rash are defrauded, and the subtle and avaricious often enriched; they have been allowed to divert the people from trade, and to alienate them from useful industry. A man who is uneasy in his circumstances, and idle in his disposition, collects the remains of his fortune, and buys tickets in a lottery, retires from business, indulges himself in laziness, and waits, in some obscure place, the event of his adventure. Another, instead of employing his stock in a shop or warehouse, rents a garret in a private street, and makes it his business, by false intelligence, and chimerical alarms, to raise and sink the price of tickets alternately, and takes advantage of the lies which he has himself invented.

Such, my lords, is the traffick that is produced by this scheme of raising money; nor were these inconveniencies unknown to the present ministers in the time of their predecessors, whom they never failed to pursue with the loudest clamours, whenever the exigencies of the government reduced them to a lottery.

If I, my lords, might presume to recommend to our ministers the most probable method of raising a large sum for the payment of the troops of the electorate, I should, instead of the tax and lottery now proposed, advise them to establish a certain number of licensed wheelbarrows, on which the laudable trade of thimble and button might be carried on for the support of the war, and shoeboys might contribute to the defence of the house of Austria, by raffling for apples.

Having now, my lords, examined with the utmost candour, all the reasons which have been offered in defence of the bill, I cannot conceal the result of my inquiry. The arguments have had so little effect upon my understanding, that as every man judges of others by himself, I cannot believe that they have any influence, even upon those that offer them; and, therefore, I am convinced, that this bill must be the result of considerations which have been hitherto concealed, and is intended to promote designs which are never to be discovered by the authors before their execution.

With regard to these motives and designs, however artfully concealed, every lord in this assembly is yet at liberty to offer his conjectures; and therefore I shall venture to lay before you what has arisen in my mind, without pretending to have discovered absolute certainty, what such accomplished politicians have endeavoured to conceal.

When I consider, my lords, the tendency of this bill, I find it calculated only for the propagation of diseases, the suppression of industry, and the destruction of mankind; I find it the most fatal engine that ever was pointed at a people, an engine by which those who are not killed will be disabled, and those who preserve their limbs, will be deprived of their senses.

This bill, therefore, appears to be designed only to thin the ranks of mankind, and to disburden the world of the multitudes that inhabit it; and is, perhaps, the strongest proof of political sagacity that our new ministers have yet exhibited. They well know, my lords, that they are universally detested, and that wherever a Briton is destroyed, they are freed from an enemy; they have, therefore, opened the floodgates of gin upon the nation, that when it is less numerous, it may be more easily governed.

Other ministers, my lords, who had not attained to so great a knowledge in the art of making war upon their country, when they found their enemies clamorous and bold, used to awe them with prosecutions and penalties, or destroy them like burglars, with prisons and gibbets. But every age, my lords, produces some improvement, and every nation, however degenerate, gives birth at some happy period of time to men of great and enterprising genius. It is our fortune to be witnesses of a new discovery in politicks; we may congratulate ourselves upon being contemporaries with those men who have shown that hangmen and halters are unnecessary in a state, and that ministers may escape the reproach of destroying their enemies, by inciting them to destroy themselves.

This new method may, indeed, have upon different constitutions a different operation; it may destroy the lives of some, and the senses of others; but either of these effects will answer the purposes of the ministry, to whom it is indifferent, provided the nation becomes insensible, whether pestilence or lunacy prevails among them. Either mad or dead, the greatest part of the people must quickly be, or there is no hope of the continuance of the present ministry.

For this purpose, my lords, what could have been invented more efficacious than an establishment of a certain number of shops at which poison may be vended; poison so prepared, as to please the palate while it wastes the strength, and to kill only by intoxication. From the first instant that any of the enemies of the ministry shall grow clamorous and turbulent, a crafty hireling may lead him to the ministerial slaughterhouse, and ply him with their wonder-working liquor, till he is no longer able to speak or think; and, my lords, no man can be more agreeable to our ministers than he that can neither speak nor think, except those who speak without thinking.

But, my lords, the ministers ought to reflect, that though all the people of the present age are their enemies, yet they have made no trial of the temper and inclinations of posterity; our successours may be of opinions very different from ours; they may, perhaps, approve of wars on the continent, while our plantations are insulted, and our trade obstructed; they may think the support of the house of Austria of more importance to us than our own defence, and may, perhaps, so far differ from their fathers, as to imagine the treasures of Britain very properly employed in supporting the troops, and increasing the splendour of a foreign electorate.

Since, therefore, it will not be denied by our ministers, that the affection and gratitude of posterity may atone for the obstinacy, blindness, and malice of the present age; since those measures which are now universally censured, may at some distant time be praised with equal unanimity; why, my lords, should they extend their vengeance to the succeeding generation? why should they endeavour to torture their limbs with pains, and load their lives with the guilt of their parents? why should they hinder that trade to which they must owe all the comforts which plenty affords? why should they endeavour to intercept their existence, or suffer them to exist only to be wretched?

If I may once more declare my sentiments, my lords, I believe the ministers do not so much wish to debilitate the bodies as the understandings of posterity, nor so ardently desire a race of cripples as of fools. For cripples, my lords, can make no figure at a review, nor strut in a red coat with a tolerable grace; but fools are known by long experience to be the principal support of an army, since they are the only persons who are willing to pay it!

Whatever, my lords, be the true reasons for which this bill is so warmly promoted, I think they ought, at least, to be deliberately examined; and, therefore, cannot think it consistent with our regard for the nation to suffer it to be precipitated into a law. The year, my lords, is not so far advanced, as that supplies may not be raised by some other method, if this should be rejected; nor do I think that we ought to consent to this, even though our refusal should hinder the supplies, since we have no right, for the sake of any advantage, however certain or great, to violate all the laws of heaven and earth, to doom thousands to destruction, and to fill the exchequer with the price of the lives of our fellow-subjects.

Let us, therefore, my lords, not suffer ourselves to be driven forward with such haste as may hinder us from observing whither we are going; let us not be persuaded to precipitate our counsels by those who know that all delays will be detrimental to their designs, because delays may produce new information, and they are conscious that the bill will be less approved the more it is understood.

But every reason which they can offer against the motion, is, in my opinion, a reason for it; and, therefore, I shall readily agree to postpone the clause, and no less readily to reject the bill.

If, at last, reason and evidence are vain, if neither justice nor compassion can prevail, but the nation must be destroyed for the support of the government, let us at least, my lords, confine our assertions, in the preamble, to truth; let us not affirm that drunkenness is established by the advice or consent of the lords spiritual, since I am confident not one of them will so far contradict his own doctrine, as to vote for a bill which gives a sanction to one vice, and ministers opportunities and temptations to all others; and which, if it be not speedily repealed, will overflow the whole nation with a deluge of wickedness.

Lord ISLAY next spoke to the effect following:—My lords, I have attended for a long time to the noble lord, not without some degree of uneasiness, as I think the manner in which he has treated the question neither consistent with the dignity of this assembly, nor with those rules which ought to be ever venerable, the great rules of reason and humanity. Yet being now arrived at a time of life in which the passions grow calm, and patience easily prevails over any sudden disgust or perturbation, I forbore to disconcert him, though I have known interruption produced by much slighter provocations.

It is, my lords, in my opinion, a just maxim, that our deliberations can receive very little assistance from merriment and ridicule, and that truth is seldom discovered by those who are chiefly solicitous to start a jest. To convince the understanding, and to tickle the fancy, are purposes very different, and must be promoted by different means; nor is he always to imagine himself superiour in the dispute, who is applauded with the loudest laugh.

To laugh, my lords, and to endeavour to communicate the same mirth to others, when great affairs are to be considered, is certainly to neglect the end for which we are assembled, and the reasons for which the privilege of debating was originally granted us. For doubtless, my lords, our honours and our power were not conferred upon us that we might be merry with the better grace, or that we might meet at certain times to divert ourselves with turning the great affairs of the nation to ridicule.

But, my lords, still less defensible is this practice, when we are contriving the relief of misery, or the reformation of vice; when calamities are preying upon thousands, and the happiness not only of the present age, but of posterity, must depend upon our resolutions. He that can divert himself with the sight of misery, has surely very little claim to the great praise of humanity and tenderness; nor can he be justly exempted from the censure of increasing evils, who wastes in laughter and jocularity that time in which he might relieve them.

The bill now before us has been represented by those that oppose it, as big with destruction, and dangerous both to the lives and to the virtue of the people. We have been told, that it will at once fill the land with sickness and with villany, and that it will be at the same time fatal to our trade, and to our power; yet those who are willing to be thought fearful of all these evils, and ardently desirous of averting them from their country, cannot without laughter mention the bill which they oppose, or enumerate the consequences which they dread from it, in any other language than that of irony and burlesque.

Surely, my lords, such conduct gives reason for questioning either their humanity, or their sincerity; for if they really fear such dreadful calamities, how can they be at leisure for mirth and gaiety I How can they sport over the grave of millions, and indulge their vain ridicule, when the ruin of their country is approaching?

But without inquiry, whether they who oppose the bill will grant their opposition hypocritical, or their patriotism languid, I shall lay my opinion of this new regulation before your lordships with equal freedom, though with less luxuriance of imagination, and less gaiety of language.

Of this bill, notwithstanding the acuteness with which it has been examined, and the acrimony with which it has been censured, I am not afraid to affirm, that it is neither wicked nor absurd, that all its parts are consistent, and that the effects to be expected from it are sobriety and health. I cannot find, upon the closest examination, either that it will defeat its own end, or that the end proposed by it is different from that which is professed.

The charge of encouraging vice and tolerating drunkenness, with which the defenders of this bill have been so liberally aspersed, may be, in my opinion, more justly retorted upon those that oppose it; who, though they plead for the continuance of a law, rigorous, indeed, and well intended, own that it has, by the experience of several years, been found ineffectual.

What, my lords, can a drunkard or a profligate be supposed to wish, but that the law may still remain in its present state, that he may still be pursued in a track by which he knows how to escape, and opposed by restraints which he is able to break? What can he desire, but that the book of statutes should lie useless, and that no laws should be made against him, but such as cannot be put in execution?

The defects of the present law, are, indeed, very numerous; nor ought it to be continued, even though no other were to be substituted. It seems to suppose the use of distilled liquors absolutely unlawful, and, therefore, imposed upon licenses a duty so enormous, that only three were taken in the whole kingdom, and the people were therefore obliged to obtain by illegal methods, what they could not persuade themselves wholly to forbear.

The method of detecting offenders was likewise such as gave opportunity for villany to triumph over innocence, and for perjury to grow rich with the plunder of the poor. Even charity itself might be punished by it; and he that gave a glass of spirits to a man fainting under poverty, or sickness, or fatigue, might be punished as a retailer of spirits without a license.

These defects, which were not seen when the law was made, soon excited a dislike. No man enforced the execution of it, because every man knew that on some occasions he might himself break it; and they who suffered for the violation of it, were often pitied by those whose office obliged them to punish them. Thus the law, after having been executed a few months with rigour, was laid aside as impracticable, and appears now to be tacitly repealed; for it is apparently an empty form without effect.

If, therefore, the use of spirits be so destructive as is generally allowed, it is surely necessary, that the legislature should at last repair the defects of the former law, and the nation should not be vitiated and ruined, without some endeavours for its preservation; and, in my opinion, to lay a double duty upon these liquors, is very rational and prudent. An increase of the price must lessen the consumption.

To what degree the consumption will be diminished by this new duty, I am not able to foretel; but, undoubtedly, some diminution will be produced, and the least diminution will afford us this comfort, that the evil does not increase upon us, and that this law is, therefore, better than that which we have repealed.

For this reason, my lords, I approve the present bill, without inquiring whether it is perfect; it is sufficient for me, in the present exigence, that the nation will gain something by the change, and the people will be drawn nearer to sobriety, temperance, and industry.

Thus, my lords, without paying any regard to the determination of the other house, I think the bill sufficiently defensible by reason and policy; nor can I conceal my opinion, that those who oppose it are the real enemies of their country.

[The question, whether the house should be now resumed, was then put and determined in the negative by 56 against 85.

The other clauses were then read, and agreed to.

The course of their proceedings then required, that a day should be appointed for the third reading, and lord SANDWICH therefore rose, and spoke to the following effect:]

My lords, as the importance of the bill now before us justly demands the maturest consideration, it is not without unusual concern, that I observe the absence of many lords, for whose wisdom and experience I have the highest veneration, and whom I esteem equally for their penetration and their integrity. I should hope, that all those who feel in their hearts the love of their country, and are conscious of abilities to promote its happiness, would assemble on this great occasion, and that the collective wisdom of this house would be exerted, when the lives and fortunes, and, what is yet more worthy of regard, the virtue of the people is involved in the question.

As there can be no avocations which can possibly withhold a wise man from counsels of such moment to his country, to himself, and to his posterity; as there is no interest equivalent to the general happiness; I cannot suppose that either business or pleasure detain those who have not attended at the examination of this bill; and therefore imagine, that they are absent only because they have not been sufficiently informed of the importance of the question that was this day to be discussed.

It is therefore, my lords, necessary, in my opinion, that on the day of the third reading they be again summoned to attend, that the law which is allowed to be only an experiment, of which the event is absolutely uncertain, may be examined with the utmost care; that all its consequences may be known, so far as human wisdom is able to discover, and that we may at least be exempt from the imputation of being negligent of the welfare of our country, and of being desirous of avoiding information or inquiry, lest they should retard our measures or contradict our assertions.

But since it is reasonable to believe, my lords, that many of those, who might assist us in this difficult inquiry, are now in the country, it is necessary, that our summons may have the effect which is desired, to defer the reading for some time. For to what purpose will it be to require their presence at a time at which we know it is impossible for them to comply with our orders? To direct what cannot be done is surely in its own nature absurd and contemptible, and on this occasion will expose not only our understanding but our honesty to doubts; for it will be imagined, that we are only endeavouring to make false shows of caution and accuracy, and that we in reality desire to determine without the concurrence of those whose presence we publickly require.

I therefore move, that the third reading of this bill may be delayed five days, and that immediate summons be issued for all lords to attend.

Lord CARTERET spoke next in substance as follows:—My lords, if it is the intention of the noble lords to debate once more the usefulness or expedience of this bill, if they have any new argument to produce, or are desirous of another opportunity to repeat those which have been already heard, I hope they will not long withhold, either from themselves or their opponents, that satisfaction.

Your lordships are so well acquainted with the state of the publick, and know so well the danger of the liberties of the continent, the power of the enemies whom we are to oppose, the dreadful consequences of an unsuccessful opposition, and the necessity of vigour and expedition to procure success, that it cannot be necessary to urge the impropriety of delaying the bill from which the supplies are to be expected.

The convenience of deferring this bill, however plausibly represented by the noble lord who made the motion, is overbalanced by the necessity of considering it to-morrow. Necessity is an argument which 110 acuteness can overthrow, and against which eloquence will be employed to little purpose. I therefore, my lords, oppose the motion, not that it is unreasonable in itself, but because it cannot be admitted; I recommend despatch on this occasion, not because it is barely right, but because it is absolutely necessary.

Lord HERVEY then rose up and spoke to the following effect:—My lords, it is always the last resource of ministers to call those measures necessary which they cannot show to be just; and when they have tried all the arts of fallacy and illusion, and found them all baffled, to stand at bay, because they can fly no longer, look their opponents boldly in the face, and stun them with the formidable sound of necessity.

But it is generally the fortune of ministers to discover necessity much sooner than they whose eyes are not sharpened by employments; they frequently call that necessity, on which no other man would bestow the title of expediency; and that is seldom necessary to be done, which others do not think necessary to be avoided.

At present, my lords, I see nothing necessary but what is equally necessary at all times, that we do our duty to our country, and discharge our trust, without suffering ourselves to be terrified with imaginary dangers or allured by imaginary benefits. The war which is said to produce the necessity of this bill, is, in my opinion, not necessary in itself: and, if your lordships differ from me in that sentiment, it must yet be allowed, that there is time sufficient to provide supplies by new methods.

But, my lords, if the motion, in which I concur, be overruled on a pretence of necessity, it will show an eager desire to hasten a bill, which, if referred to any twelve men, not of either house of the senate, their examination would terminate in this, that they bring it in guilty of wilful murder.

Lord CHOLMONDELEY spoke next, in substance as follows:—My lords, as there is no doubt but particular measures may be sometimes necessary, I discover no reason that ought to hinder the mention of that necessity; for surely where it can be asserted with truth, it is the most powerful of all arguments, and cannot be wisely or honestly neglected.

In the present case, my lords, I can discover no impropriety in mentioning it; for I suppose that noble lord did not intend to restrain it to the most rigorous sense; he did not mean, that there is the same necessity of reading this bill to-morrow for the success of the war, as of extinguishing a fire for the preservation of a town; but that the reasons for despatch absolutely overbalanced all the pleas that could be offered for delays.

This necessity, my lords, I am not ashamed to assert after him; nor can I think it consistent with common prudence, in the present situation of our affairs, to defer the third reading beyond to-morrow; for the supplies which this bill must produce, are to be employed in attempts of the utmost importance, and which cannot fail without the ruin of a great part of mankind, and an irreparable injury to this nation.

I cannot, therefore, but confess my surprise at the vehemence with which this bill is opposed; vehemence so turbulent and fierce, that some lords have been transported beyond that decency which it is our duty and our interest to preserve in our deliberations; nor have restrained themselves from expressions, which, upon reflection, I believe they will not think defensible; from among which I cannot but particularize the horrid and opprobrious term of murder.

The reverend prelates, who have spoken against the bill, may be easily believed to be as zealous for virtue as those who have indulged themselves in this violence of language; yet they have never charged those who defend the measures now proposed with the guilt of murder, but have decently delivered their own opinions, without, reproaching those who differ from them.

For my part, my lords, as I cannot think the motion for farther delay, seasonable or proper, or necessary to the discovery of truth, or consistent with the welfare of the nation, it is my resolution to vote against it.

The duke of BEDFORD spoke next, in substance as follows:—My lords, the ardour with which the noble lord appears to resent the indignity offered to the bill, shows only that he himself approves it, but not that it deserves the approbation of the house.

I think it of use, notwithstanding the plausible pleas of decency or politeness, that every thing should in this house be called by its right name, that we may not dispute for one thing, and vote for another; and since the bill will certainly destroy multitudes, if it promotes the sale of distilled spirits, and it has been proved that it will promote it, I know not by what appellation to denominate its effects, if that be denied me, which has been already used.

[The speaker then put the question in form, "Is it your lordships' pleasure, that the third reading of the bill be put off for five days?" It was resolved in the negative by 52 to 29.

It was then ordered, that the bill should be read the third time on the day following, and that the lords should be summoned to attend.

On the next day, the house, according to the order, met, and another debate ensued, which was begun by lord HERVEY, who spoke in substance as follows:]

My lords, the tendency of the bill, which we are now to approve or reject, is so apparently destructive to the ends of government, so apparently dangerous to publick happiness, and so contrary to the institutions of the most celebrated lawgivers, and the policy of the most flourishing nations, that I still continue to think it my duty to struggle against it.

Almost every legislator of the world, my lords, from whatever original he derived his authority, has exerted it in the prohibition of such foods as tended to injure the health, and destroy the vigour of the people for whom he designed his institutions.

The great instructor of the jews, who delivered his laws by divine authority, prohibited the use of swine's flesh, for no other cause, so far as human reason is able to discover, than that it corrupted the blood, and produced loathsome diseases and maladies which descended to posterity; and, therefore, in prohibiting, after this example, the use of liquors which produce the same effects, we shall follow the authority of the great governour of the universe.

The author of another religion, a religion founded, indeed, on superstition and credulity, but which prevails over a very great part of the earth, has laid his followers under restraints still more severe; he has forbidden them to dispel their cares, or exalt their pleasures, with wine, has banished from their banquets that useful opponent of troublesome reflection, and doomed all those who receive his law, not to sobriety only, but to abstinence.

The authority of this man, my lords, cannot indeed be urged as unexceptionable and decisive; but the reception of his imposture shows at least, that he was not unacquainted with human nature, and that he knew how to adapt his forgeries to the nations among which he vented them; nor can it be denied, but the prohibition of wine was found generally useful, since it obtained so ready a compliance.

All nations in the world, my lords, in every age of which there remain any historical accounts, have agreed in the necessity of laying restraint upon appetite, and setting bounds to the wantonness of luxury; every legislature has claimed and practised the right of withholding those pleasures which the people have appeared inclined to use to excess, and preferring the safety of multitudes whom liberty would destroy, to the convenience of those who would have enjoyed it within the limits of reason and of virtue.

The welfare of the publick, my lords, has always been allowed the supreme law; and when any governours sacrifice the general good either to private views, or temporary convenience, they deviate at once from integrity and policy, they betray their trust, and neglect their interest.

The prohibition of those commodities which are instrumental to vice, is not only dictated by policy but nature; nor does it, indeed, require much sagacity, when the evil is known, to find the proper remedy; for even the Indians, who have not yet reduced the art of government to a science, nor learned to make long harangues upon the different interests of foreign powers, the necessity of raising supplies or the importance and extent of manufactures, have yet been able to discover, that distilled spirits are pernicious to society, and that the use of them can only be hindered by prohibiting the sale.

For this reason, my lords, they have petitioned, that none of this delicious poison should be imported from. Britain; they have desired us to confine this fountain of wickedness and misery to stream in our own country, without pouring upon them those inundations of debauchery, by which we are ourselves overflowed.

When we may be sent with justice to learn from the rude and ignorant Indians the first elements of civil wisdom, we have surely not much right to boast of our foresight and knowledge; we must surely confess, that we have hitherto valued ourselves upon our arts with very little reason, since we have not learned how to preserve either wealth or virtue, either peace or commerce.

The maxims of our politicians, my lords, differ widely from those of the Indian savages, as they are the effects of longer consideration, and reasonings formed upon more extensive views. What Indian, my lords, would have contrived to hinder his countrymen from drunkenness, by placing that liquor in their houses which tempted them to excess; or would have discovered, that prohibition only were the cause of boundless excesses; that to subdue the appetite nothing was necessary but to solicit it; and that what was always offered would never be received? The Indians, in the simplicity of men unacquainted with European and British refinements, imagined, that to put an end to the use of any thing, it was only necessary to take it away; and conceived, that they could not promote sobriety more effectually, than by allowing the people nothing with which they could be drunk.

But if our politicians should send missionaries to teach them the art of government, they would quickly be shown, that if they would accomplish their design, they must appoint every tenth man among them to distribute spirits to the nine, and to drink them himself in what quantity they shall desire, and that then the peace of their country will be no longer disturbed by the quarrels of debauchery.

It is, indeed, not without amazement, that I hear this bill seriously defended as a scheme for suppressing drunkenness, and find some lords, who admit that fifty thousand houses will be opened for the publick sale of spirits, assert that a less quantity of spirits will be sold.

The foundation of this opinion is in itself very uncertain; for nothing more is urged, but that all who sell under the sanction of a license, will be ready to inform against those by whom no license has been purchased; and that, therefore, fifty thousand licensed retailers may hurt a greater number who now sell spirits in opposition to the law.

All this, my lords, is very far from certainty; for it cannot be proved, that there are now so great a number of retailers as this act may produce: it is likely that security will encourage many to engage in this trade, who are at present deterred from it by danger. It is possible, that those who purchase licenses may nevertheless forbear to prosecute those that sell spirits without the protection of the law. They may forbear, my lords, from the common principles of humanity, because they think those poor traders deserve rather pity than punishment; they may forbear from a principle that operates more frequently, and too often more strongly; a regard to their own interest. They may themselves offend the law by some other parts of their conduct, and may be unwilling to provoke an inspection into their own actions, by betraying officiously the faults of their neighbours; or they may be influenced by immediate terrours, and expect to be hunted to death by the rage of the populace.

All these considerations may be urged against the only supposition that has been made, with any show of reason, in favour of the bill; and of these various circumstances, some one or other will almost always be found. Every man will have either fear or pity, because almost every good man is inclined to compassion, and every wicked man is in danger from the law; and I do not see any reason for imagining that the people will tolerate informers more willingly now than in the late years.

But suppose it should be granted, though it cannot be certain, and has not yet been shown to be probable, that the clandestine trade will be interrupted; I am not able to follow these ministerial reasoners immediately to the consequence which they draw from this concession, and which must be drawn from it, if it be of any use in the decision of the question, nor can see that the consumption of spirituous liquors will be made less.

Let us examine, my lords, the premises and the consequences together, without suffering our attention to be led astray by useless digressions. Spirits will be now sold only with license! therefore less will be sold than when it was sold only by stealth!

Surely, my lords, such arguments will not much influence this assembly. Why, my lords, should less be bought now than formerly? It is not denied, that there will be in every place a licensed shop, where drunkards may riot in security; and what can be more inviting to wretches who place in drunkenness their utmost felicity I If you should favourably suppose no more to be sold, yet why should those who now buy any supposed quantity, buy less when the restraint is taken away?

If it be urged, that the present law does in reality impose no restraint, the intended act will make no alteration. There is no real prohibition now, there will be no nominal prohibition hereafter; and, therefore, the law will only produce what its advocates expect from it, a yearly addition to the revenue of the government. But, my lords, let us at last inquire to what it is to be imputed, that the present law swells the statute book to no purpose? and why this pernicious trade is carried on with confidence and security, in opposition to the law? It will not surely be confessed, that the government has wanted authority to execute its own laws; that the legislature has been awed by the populace, by the dregs of the populace, the drunkards and the beggars! Yet when the provisions made for the execution of a law so salutary, so just, and so necessary, were found defective, why were not others substituted of greater efficacy? Why, when one informer was torn in pieces, were there not new securities proposed to protect those who should by the same offence displease the people afterwards?

The law, my lords, has failed of a great part of its effect; but it has failed by cowardice on one part, and negligence on another; and though the duty, as it was laid, was in itself somewhat invidious, it would, however, have been enforced, could the revenue have gained as much by the punishment as was gained by the toleration of debauchery. It has, however, some effect; it may be imagined, that no man can be trusted where he is not known, and that some men are known too well to be trusted; and, therefore, many must be occasionally hindered from drinking spirits, while the law remains in its present state; who, when houses are set open by license, will never want an opportunity of complying with their appetites, but may at any time enter confidently, and call for poison, and mingle with numerous assemblies met only to provoke each other to intemperance by a kind of brutal emulation and obstreperous merriment.

This bill, therefore, my lords, is, as it has been termed, only an experiment; an experiment, my lords, of a very daring kind, which none would hazard but empirical politicians. It is an experiment to discover how far the vices of the populace may be made useful to the government, what taxes may be raised upon poison, and how much the court may be enriched by the destruction of the subjects.

The tendency of this bill is so evident, that those who appeared as its advocates have rather endeavoured to defeat their opponents by charging their proposals with absurdity, than by extenuating the ill consequence of their own scheme.

Their principal charge is, that those who oppose the bill recommend a total prohibition of all spirits. This assertion gives them an opportunity of abandoning their own cause, to expatiate upon the innocent uses of spirits, of their efficacy in medicine, and their convenience in domestick business, and to advance a multitude of positions which they know will not be denied, but which may be at once made useless to them, by assuring them, that no man desires to destroy the distillery for the pleasure of destroying it, or intends any thing more than some provisions which may hinder distilled spirits from being drunk by common people upon common occasions.

Having thus obviated the only answer that has hitherto been made to the strong arguments which have been offered against the bill, I must declare, that I have heard nothing else that deserves an answer, or that can possibly make any impression in favour of the bill; a bill, my lords, teeming with sedition and idleness, diseases and robberies; a bill that will enfeeble the body, corrupt the mind, and turn the cities of this populous kingdom into prisons for villains, or hospitals for cripples; and which I think it, therefore, our duty to reject.

Lord LONSDALE next spoke to the effect following:—My lords, the bill, on which we are now finally to determine, is of such a tendency, that it cannot be made a law, without an open and avowed disregard of all the rules which it has been hitherto thought the general interest of human nature to preserve inviolable. It is opposite at once to the precepts of the wise, and the practice of the good, to the original principles of virtue and the established maxims of policy.

I shall, however, only consider it with relation to policy, because the other considerations will naturally coincide; for policy is only the connexion of prudence with goodness, and directs only what virtue each particular occurrence requires to be immediately practised.

The first principle of policy, my lords, teaches us, that the power and greatness of a state arises from the number of its people; uninhabited dominions are an empty show, and serve only to encumber the nation to which they belong; they are a kind of pompous ornaments, which must be thrown away in time of danger, and equally unfit for resistance and retreat.

In the present war, my lords, if the number of our people were equal to that of the two nations against which we are engaged, the narrowness of our dominions would give us a resistless superiority; as we have fewer posts to defend, we might send more forces to attack our enemies, who must be weak in every part, because they must be dispersed to a very great extent. The torrent of war, as a flood of water, is only violent while it is confined, but loses its force as it is more diffused.

In consequence of this maxim, my lords, it is proposed, that because we are at war against two mighty powers, we shall endeavour to destroy by spirits at home, those who cannot fall by the sword of the enemy, and that we endeavour to hinder the production of another generation; for it is well known, my lords, and has in this debate been universally allowed, that the present practice of drinking spirits will not only destroy the present race, but debilitate the next.

This surely, my lords, is a time at which we ought very studiously to watch over the preservation of those lives which we are not compelled to expose, and endeavour to retrieve the losses of war by encouraging industry, temperance, and sobriety.

Another principle of government which the wisdom of our progenitors established, was to suppress vice with the utmost diligence; for as vice must always produce misery to those whom it infects, and danger to those who are considered as its enemies, it is contrary to the end of government; and the government which encourages vice is necessarily labouring for its own destruction; for the good will not support it, because they are not benefited by it, and the wicked will betray it, because they are wicked.

How little then, my lords, do our sagacious politicians understand their own interest by promoting drunkenness and luxury, of which the natural train of consequences are idleness, necessity, wickedness, desperation, sedition, and anarchy! How little do they understand what it is that gives stability to the fabrick of our constitution, if they imagine it can long stand, when it is not supported by virtue.

In consequence of these maxims, another may be advanced, that all trades which tend to impair either the health or virtue of the people, should be interdicted; for since the strength of the community consists in the number and happiness of the people, no trade deserves to be cultivated which does not contribute to the one or the other; for the end of trade, as of all other human attempts, is the attainment of happiness.

If any trade that conduces not to the happiness of the community by increasing either the number or the virtue of the people, be industriously cultivated, the legislature ought to suppress it; if any manufacture that administers temptations to wickedness be flourishing and extensive, it has already been too long indulged; and the government can atone for its remissness only by rigorous inhibition, severe prosecutions, and vigilant inquiries.

That the trade of distilling, my lords, had advanced so fast among us, that our manufacturers of poison are arrived at the utmost degree of skill in their profession, and that the draughts which they prepare are greedily swallowed by those who rarely look beyond the present moment, or inquire what price must be paid for the present gratification; that the people have been so long accustomed to daily stupefaction, that they are become mutinous, if they are restrained from it; and that the law which was intended to suppress their luxury cannot, without tumults and bloodshed, be put in execution, are, in my opinion, very affecting considerations, but they can surely be of no use for the defence of this bill.

The more extensive the trade of distilling, the more must swallow the poison which it affords; the more palatable the liquor is made, the more dangerous is the temptation; and the more corrupt the people are become, the more urgent is the necessity of extirpating those that have corrupted them.

I am not, my lords, less convinced of the importance of trade, than those lords who have spoken in the most pathetick language for the continuance of the manufacture; but my regard for trade naturally determines me to vote against a bill by which idleness, the pest of commerce, must be encouraged, and those hands, by which our trade is to be carried on, must be first enfeebled, and soon afterwards destroyed.

Nor is this kind of debauchery, my lords, less destructive to the interest of those whose riches consist in lands, than of those who are engaged in commerce; for it undoubtedly hinders the consumption of almost every thing that land can produce; of that corn which should be made into bread, and brewed into more wholesome drink; of that flesh which is fed for the market, and even of that wool which should be worked into cloth. It has been often mentioned ludicrously, but with too much truth, that strong liquors are to the meaner people, meat, drink, and clothes; that they depend upon them alone for sustenance and warmth, and that they desire to forget their wants in drunkenness rather than supply them. If we, therefore, examine this question with regard to trade, we shall find, that the money which is spent in drunkenness for the advantage only of one distiller, would support, if otherwise expended, a great number of labourers, husbandmen, and traders; since one man employed at the still may supply with the means of debauchery such numbers as could not be furnished with innocent victuals and warm clothes, but by the industry of many hands, and the concurrence of many trades.

Numbers, my lords, are necessary to success in commerce as in war; if the manufacturers be few, labour will be dear, and the value of the commodity must always be proportioned to the price of labour.

These, my lords, are the arguments by which I have hitherto been incited to oppose this bill, which I have not found that any of its defenders can elude or repel; for they content themselves with a cowardly concession to the multitude, allow them to proceed in wickedness, confess they have found themselves unable to oppose their sovereign pleasure, or to withhold them from pursuing their own inclinations; and, therefore, have sagaciously contrived a scheme, by which they hope to gain some advantage from the vices which they cannot reform.

But who, my lords, can, without horrour and indignation, hear those who are entrusted with the care of the publick, contriving to take advantage of the ruin of their country?

Let others, my lords, vote as their consciences will direct them, I shall likewise follow the dictates of my heart, and shall avoid any concurrence with a scheme, which, though it may for a time benefit the government, must destroy the strength and virtue of the people, and at once impair our trade and depopulate our country.

Lord CARTERET then rose up, and spoke in substance as follows:—My lords, the warmth with which this debate has been hitherto carried on, and with which the progress of this bill has been opposed, is, in my opinion, to be imputed to strong prejudices, formed when the question was first proposed; by which the noble lords have been incited to warm declamations and violent invectives; who, having once heated their minds with suspicions, have not been able to consider the propositions before them with calmness and impartiality; but have pursued their first notions, and have employed their eloquence in displaying the absurdity of positions never advanced, and the mischief of consequences which will never be produced.

It is first to be considered, my lords, that this bill is intended, not to promote, but to hinder, the consumption of spirituous liquors; it is, therefore, by no means necessary to expatiate upon that which is presupposed in the bill, the pernicious quality of spirits, the detestable nature of drunkenness, the wickedness or miseries which are produced by it. Almost all that has been urged by the noble lords who have spoken with the greatest warmth against the bill, may reasonably be conceived to have been advanced for it by those who projected it; of whom it may be justly imagined, that they were fully convinced how much spirits were abused by the common people, and how much that abuse contributed to the wickedness which at present prevails amongst us, since they thought it necessary to prevent them by a new law.

But, my lords, when they saw that the abuse of distilled liquors was in a very high degree detrimental to the publick, they saw, likewise, that the trade of distilling was of great use; that it employed great numbers of our people, and consumed a great part of the produce of our lands; and that, therefore, it could not be suppressed, without injuring the publick, by reducing many families to sudden poverty, and by depriving the farmers of a market for a great part of their corn. In the plains of the western part of this island, the grain that is chiefly cultivated is barley, and that barley is chiefly consumed by the distillers; nor, if they should be at once suppressed, could the husbandman readily sell the produce of his labour and his grounds, or the landlord receive rent for his estate; since it would then produce nothing, or what is in effect the same, nothing that could be sold.

It is, indeed, possible, my lords, that the Dutch might buy it; but then it must be considered, that we must pay them money for the favour, since we allow a premium upon exportation, and that we shall buy it back again in spirits, and, consequently, pay them for manufacturing our own product. For it is not to be imagined, that any law will immediately reclaim the dispositions, or reform the appetites of the people. They are well known to have drank spirits before they were made in our country, and to indulge themselves at present in many kinds of luxury which are yet loaded with a very high tax. It is not, therefore, probable, that upon the imposition of a high duty they will immediately desist from drinking spirits; they will, indeed, as now, drink those which can be most easily procured; and if, by a high tax suddenly imposed, foreign spirits be made cheaper than our own, foreign spirits will only be used, our distillery will be destroyed, and our people will yet not be reformed.

That heavy taxes will not deter the people from any favourite enjoyment, has been already shown by the unsuccessfulness of the last attempt to restrain them from the use of spirits, and may be every day discovered from the use of tobacco, which is universally taken by the common people, though a very high duty is laid upon it, and though a king thought it so pernicious that he employed his pen against it. The commons, therefore, prudently forbore to use violent measures, which might disgust the people, but which they had no reason to believe sufficient to reform them, and thought it more expedient to proceed by more gentle methods, which might operate by imperceptible degrees, and which might be made more forcible and compulsive, if they should be found ineffectual.

Another evil will by this method, likewise, be avoided, which is the certain consequence of high duties; this tax will produce no clandestine frauds nor rebellious defiance of the legislature; the distillers will not be tempted to evade this impost by perjuries, too often practised where the profit of them is great, nor smugglers to assemble in numerous troops with arms in their hands, and carry imported liquors through the country by force, in opposition to the officers of the customs, and the laws of the nation. That this, likewise, is practised upon other occasions to escape heavy taxes, all the weekly papers inform us; nor are there many months in which some of the king's officers are not maimed or murdered doing of their duty.

All these evils, my lords, and a thousand others, will be avoided by an easy tax; in favour of which I cannot but wonder, that it should be necessary to plead so long, since every nation, which has any pretension to civility or a regular government, will agree, that heavy imposts are not to be wantonly inflicted, and that severity is never to be practised till lenity has failed.

It, therefore, appears to me, my lords, that justice, reason, and experience, unite in favour of this bill; and that nothing is to be feared from it, but that it will not be sufficiently coercive, nor restrain the abuse of spirits so much as is hoped by those that have stood up in its vindication. That it can encourage drunkenness, or increase the consumption of distilled liquors, is surely impossible; for they are now drunk without restraint; and therefore no restraint will be taken away: and since their price must be increased by a double duty, it may reasonably be conceived, that those who now spend all that they can gain by their labour in drunkenness, must be content with less than before, because they will have no more to spend; and what has hitherto enabled them to riot in debauchery will no longer be sufficient for the same purposes; the same excess will require more money, and more money cannot be had.

I do not affirm, my lords, that the success of this bill is demonstrably certain; nor can I deny that many arguments have been alleged against it which cannot easily be confuted; all that I can venture to assert is, that in my opinion, the reasons for the bill preponderate, not that those against it, are without weight.

Of this, at least, we are certain, that the bill can produce no ill consequences; and that if the experience of the ensuing year shall show it to be ineffectual, it may be amended in the next session by new provisions, which we shall be then more able to adjust for the benefit of the publick.

All laws, especially those which regard complicated and intricate affairs, have been perfected by degrees; experience has discovered those deficiencies which sagacity could not foresee, and the progress of human wisdom has been always slow. To charge any scheme with imperfection, is only to allege that it is the production of men, of beings finite in their capacity, and liable to errour; nor do I see what can be recommended to such beings, more than what the government is now endeavouring to practise, that nothing should be done precipitately, and that experience should always be trusted rather than conjecture.

Lord LONSDALE next spoke to the effect following:—My lords, the arguments of the noble lord have by no means influenced me to alter my opinion; nor do I now rise up to pronounce a recantation of any of my former assertions, but to explain one of them, which the noble lord has been pleased to controvert.

He observes, in opposition to my argument, that the distillery contributes to the consumption of the produce of our grounds, and, by consequence, to the advantage of those who possess them; but I, my lords, am inclined to believe that it produces a contrary effect, and that it hinders the consumption, even of that grain which is employed in it.

We may reasonably suppose, my lords, that they who now drink distilled liquors, would, if they were debarred from them, endeavour to obtain from ale and beer the same renovation of their vigour, and relaxation of their cares; and that, therefore, more ale would be brewed, as there would be more purchasers: if, therefore, the same quantity of malt, which is sufficient, when distilled, to produce intoxication, would, when brewed into ale, have the same effect, the consumption would still be the same, whether ale or spirits were in use; but it is certain, that the fourth part of the malt which is necessary to furnish ale for a debauch, will, when exalted in the still, be sufficient to satisfy the most greedy drunkard; and it is, therefore, evident, that he who drinks ale, consumes more barley by three parts in four than he who indulges, the use of spirits, supposing them both equally criminal in the excess of their enjoyments.

The noble lord has taken occasion to mention tobacco as an instance of the obstinacy with which the people persevere in a practice to which they are addicted. Of the obstinacy of the people, my lords, I am sufficiently convinced; but hope that it will never be able to overpower the legislature, who ought to enforce their laws, and invigorate their efforts in proportion to the atrociousness of the corruption which they are endeavouring to extirpate: nor do I think so meanly of government, as to believe it unable to repress drunkenness or luxury, or in danger of being subverted in a contest about spirits or tobacco.

Tobacco, indeed, has not properly been produced as an instance; for I never heard, that however it may be disapproved by particular men, of whatever rank or abilities, it was prohibited by law; nor should I think any such prohibition necessary or reasonable; for tobacco, my lords, is not poison, like distilled spirits, nor is the use of it so much injurious to health, as offensive to delicacy.

The poisonous and destructive quality of these liquors is confessed by the noble lord, a confession with which I find it very difficult to reconcile his solicitude for the distillery; for when it is once granted, that spirits corrupt the mind, weaken the limbs, impair virtue, and shorten life, any arguments in favour of those who manufacture them come too late, since no advantage can be equivalent to the loss of honesty and life. When the noble lord has urged that the distillery employs great numbers of hands, and, therefore, ought to be encouraged, may it not, upon his own concession, be replied, that those numbers are employed in murder, and that their trade ought, like that of other murderers, to be stopped? When he urges that much of our grain is consumed in the still, may we not answer, and answer irresistibly, that it is consumed by being turned into poison, instead of bread? And can a stronger argument be imagined for the suppression of this detestable business, than that it employs multitudes, and that it is gainful and extensive?

Nor can I discover, my lords, how the care of preserving the distillery is consistent with the ends which the preamble in this bill declares to be proposed, or which the advocates for it appear to desire. If the consumption of distilled spirits is to be hindered, how is the distillery to remain uninjured? If the trade of distilling is not to be impaired, what shall hinder the consumption of spirits? So far as this bill operates, the distillers must be impoverished by it; and if they may properly and justly suffer a small diminution of their profit for a small advantage to the publick, why will not a greater benefit be equivalent to a greater diminution?

Nothing, my lords, is more apparent, than that the real design of this bill, however its defenders may endeavour to conceal it in the mist of sophistry, is to lay only such a tax as may increase the revenue; and that they have no desire of suppressing that vice which may be made useful to their private purpose, nor feel any regret to fill the exchequer by the slaughter of the people.

Lord AYLESFORD then rose up, and spoke to the following purpose:—My lords, the noble lord who spoke last in defence of this new scheme, appears to have imbibed very strong prejudices in favour of the distillery, from which he finds it practicable to draw large sums for the support of the measures which have been already formed, and which he, therefore, considers as the most important and beneficial trade of the British nation.

It is not improbable, my lords, that in a short time all the provisions which have been made by the wisdom of our ancestors for the support of the woollen manufacture, will be transferred for the encouragement of the distillery, which appears to be at present the reigning favourite; for it is evident, that both manufactures cannot subsist together, and that either must be continued by the ruin of the other.

Of these rivals, which is doomed to fall we may conjecture from the encomium just now bestowed upon the prudence of the commons, by whom the darling distillery has been so tenderly treated; yet that the trade, in which the bounty of nature has enabled us to excel all other nations of the world, may not be suffered to perish in silence, I will take this opportunity to declare, that this boasted prudence can, in my opinion, produce no other effects than poverty and ruin, private calamities, and general wickedness; that by encouraging drunkenness at the expense of trade, it will stop all the currents by which the gold of foreign nations has flowed upon us, and expose us to conquest and to slavery.

[Thus ended this memorable debate. The question being put, was determined in favour of the bill by 57 against 38.]

END