TESTIMONY OF HANS LENUS ADOLPH WESTMAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, C. T. HATTEN
Mr. Westman. Mr. Chairman, under the first and fifth amendments——
Mr. Tavenner. You haven’t been asked any questions.
Mr. Westman. O. K.
Mr. Tavenner. We will give you a chance.
What is your name, please, sir?
Mr. Westman. Under the first and fifth amendments, as the result of having been subpenaed, I wish to apply these two amendments as reasons for not giving my name.
And also, in the light of the statement that was made here this afternoon, that you would like to have some witness that didn’t have to use his name, that is, that you could have appearing before you.
Mr. Tavenner. You are mistaken.
Mr. Moulder. We will have order, please.
Mr. Velde. Do you refuse to answer as to what your name is?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I am going to confer with my attorney.
I wish to state that——
Mr. Moulder. You are directed to answer the question.
Mr. Westman. I will answer the question under protest.
My name is Hans Lenus Adolph Westman.
Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name?
Mr. Westman. W-e-s-t-m-a-n.
Mr. Tavenner. It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel.
Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. Hatten. C. T. Hatten, previously identified as an attorney in Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Westman?
Mr. Westman. In Seattle.
Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation?
Mr. Westman. I would like to confer with counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, I will answer under compulsion, and I am a sheetmetal worker.
Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any other occupation?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Do you mean at the present time?
Mr. Tavenner. During the last month, say, during the month of March.
Mr. Westman. I would like to confer with my counsel.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, sir, I would like—I will decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment, as I do not know what is referred to as work by the question, and, hence, it might be something that is construed by you, sir, as constituting work that might be of a character that would waive my rights under the fifth amendment. And, hence, I will take the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I will be more specific.
Have you been engaged during the month of March in any publication work of any kind? That will limit it within narrow bounds.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I will decline to answer that under the fifth amendment. And I would like to go into the reasons why I take the fifth amendment, because under——
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, the witness has stated his reason as being the fifth amendment, which is a ground, under the circumstances here, I think he is entitled to use. And, therefore, it would not require any speech to accompany it.
Mr. Moulder. Please make a direct answer to the question. We will get along more quickly.
Mr. Westman. I said that under the fifth amendment I decline to answer that question, and I would like to just point out, Mr. Chairman, that I do take the fifth amendment because of the fact that it is in the Constitution to protect the innocent, and for the same reason that you gentlemen of Congress have congressional immunity.
Mr. Moulder. You have made yourself clear about the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you at any time, during the month of March 1955, been the press director of the Communist Party?
Mr. Westman. I will decline to answer that under the first and fifth amendments, as, under the first amendment, that is directly inquiring into the freedom of the press and into matters of like nature, and, under the fifth amendment, I decline because such testimony might be construed as testimony against myself.
Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Barbara Hartle testified before this committee, in June of 1954. In the course of her testimony in identifying various individuals as members of the Communist Party, she stated:
Lenus Westman was a member of a club in the central region and lived in that area. Most of his Communist Party activities were in mass work at that time, like the Progressive Party or election work.
Tell the committee, please, what knowledge you have of the activities of the Communist Party, if any, within the Progressive Party.
Mr. Westman. Well, Mr. Chairman, I will decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I think I have made my point clear on that.
Mr. Moulder. May I ask you a question?
Where were you born and reared?
Mr. Westman. I was born in Sweden, Umea, Sweden; and came to this country at the age of 7.
Mr. Moulder. How old are you now?
Mr. Westman. I am 52 years of age.
Mr. Moulder. Are you a citizen of the United States?
Mr. Westman. Yes, I am.
Mr. Moulder. How long have you been a citizen?
Mr. Westman. Since 1936.
Mr. Moulder. Have you served in the armed services of the United States?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Yes; I have.
Mr. Moulder. What branch of the armed services?
Mr. Westman. In the infantry, Army.
Mr. Moulder. For what period of time?
Mr. Westman. From July 1942, until February 1943.
Mr. Moulder. Did you receive an honorable discharge from the service?
Mr. Westman. Yes; I did.
Mr. Velde. I would like to ask one question.
How did you obtain citizenship in this country?
Mr. Westman. Through naturalization.
Mr. Velde. Did you file your petition for naturalization on your own?
Mr. Westman. It was by petition.
Mr. Tavenner. What was the date of your naturalization?
Mr. Westman. It was July 1936.
Mr. Tavenner. Was it July 27, 1936?
Mr. Westman. Yes; I think that was the exact date.
Mr. Tavenner. Where were you naturalized?
Mr. Westman. Here in Seattle in the Federal court.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you were naturalized?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given.
Mr. Tavenner. Have you been a member of the Communist Party at any time between 1936 and the present date?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reason that I have given.
Mr. Velde. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time you were naturalized?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question also, and for the same reason.
Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, it appears to me there is some evidence that should be referred to the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service for future consideration, possibly with a view to denaturalization and deportation.
Mr. Tavenner. Were you elected to the Senate of the State of Washington in the election of 1940?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Yes; I was.
Mr. Tavenner. Did you serve? That is, were you seated?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question, sir, under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Velde. I want to go a little further. When did you file your petition for naturalization?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, at the moment I don’t recall exactly when I filed the petition, but it is a matter of public record.
Mr. Velde. Would it have been approximately 5 years before the date of your naturalization in 1936?
Mr. Westman. Yes.
Mr. Velde. Probably in 1931?
Mr. Westman. It would be approximately in that period.
Mr. Velde. How old were you at that time?
Mr. Westman. I was 29, I believe, at that time.
Mr. Velde. Then during the 5 years following your filing of a petition for naturalization did you engage in any type of Communist activity?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the reasons that I have given before.
Mr. Velde. Did you know what the Communist Party was at that time?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given.
Mr. Velde. Where, and in what court did you receive your citizenship?
Mr. Westman. It was at the Federal courthouse here, but I am not sure at the present time which court it was.
Mr. Velde. At the time that you received your citizenship in the court, United States district court, were you engaged in any Communist Party activities?
Mr. Westman. I decline to answer that question for the same reasons that I have given before.
Mr. Moulder. Have you, to your own best knowledge and information, ever committed any act, a subversive act or one of un-American conduct against the United States of America?
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. Well, sir, under the fifth amendment, I must decline to answer that question, and I also know that this committee knows that I have not been engaged in such activities. I am sure that this committee knows that.
Mr. Velde. As a member of the committee, I certainly do not know that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
Mr. Moulder. It seems to me you now have an opportunity to tell the committee that you have not been engaged in subversive activities.
(The witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Westman. I still decline to answer the question under the fifth amendment because I do not consider this an opportunity.
Mr. Moulder. You say you served in the Armed Forces for a period of how long?
Mr. Westman. Approximately 6 or 7 months.
Mr. Moulder. And why were you discharged?
Mr. Westman. That was because I was over 40.
Mr. Moulder. What was the extent of your services in the Armed Forces? Were you in combat service?
Mr. Westman. No.
Mr. Moulder. Are there any further questions?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.
Mr. Moulder. Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. No questions.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Frank Kerr.
Will you come forward? Just have a seat, please.
(Mr. Frank Kerr came forward, accompanied by his counsel, Jay G. Sykes.)
Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this witness has been subpenaed, and a doctor’s certificate has been given which is wholly inadequate as a medical certificate to show that this gentleman was not in condition to appear here.
Counsel was advised to get a doctor and give us a certificate that we thought would mean something.
There may have been some confusion about who was to have the examination made, but, regardless of that, it is quite apparent, from observation, that the man is not well, and I don’t feel satisfied in interrogating him under these circumstances unless the witness himself wants to be interrogated.
(Mr. Sykes conferred with Mr. Kerr.)
Mr. Sykes. He would rather not.
Mr. Tavenner. Under those circumstances I do not feel like insisting on it.
Mr. Moulder. Do you wish the subpena to be continued or remain in full force and effect?
Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. Under the circumstances, I think Mr. Kerr should be dismissed.
Mr. Moulder. The witness is excused.
(Whereupon the witness was excused.)
Mr. Tavenner. There are no further witnesses, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Moulder. The hearing will remain in order.
As chairman of this subcommittee, and on behalf of the staff of the committee, our able counsel, Mr. Tavenner, and our investigator, Mr. Wheeler, and myself, we are all deeply grateful to the police department and the highly qualified police officers who have served this committee so faithfully and efficiently.
We are also deeply grateful and want to express our appreciation to all city, county, and Federal officials who have cooperated with us in every possible way.
As a member of the Committee on Un-American Activities, I want to say that I have attended many hearings in many sections of the United States, and I have never had the pleasure of enjoying more genuine, warm hospitality than has been extended to us during the hearings which have been held here in Seattle, Wash.
I am deeply grateful for the opportunity and the honor of having been associated with so many fine people as I have found here in Seattle. They have cooperated with us during the hearings.
We also wish to express our deep appreciation for the efficient service rendered by the sheriff’s office, as well as all other public officials who have cooperated with us during the hearings.
Mr. Velde?
Mr. Velde. I simply want to say this, Mr. Chairman: I appreciate the courteous and fair manner in which you have conducted the hearings here in Seattle.
I have a soft spot in my heart for the people in Seattle, and I concur with you that we have been given more courteous treatment, or at least as courteous treatment here in the city of Seattle and in the Northwest area as we have been given in any other section of the country. We really do appreciate it.
Mr. Moulder. Thank you very much, Mr. Velde.
The committee will be adjourned.
(Whereupon, Saturday, March 19, 1955, at 5:35 p. m., the committee was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.)