Monday, January 10.
Vacancy in the Presidency.
In Committee of the Whole on the bill, declaring what officer, in case of vacancy [by death, removal, or inability] in the offices of President and Vice President, shall act as President, Mr. Boudinot in the chair.
The first clause of the bill was read, which contains a blank to be filled up, designating the person who shall act as President.
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) observed that, by the constitution, the vacancy is to be filled with an officer of the United States. This narrows the discussion very much. But he conceived there was a previous question necessary to be determined; and that was, whether the person appointed to supply the vacancy should hold the office during the time for which the President and Vice President were elected, or whether he was to hold the office only till a new election could take place. He thought that, by the constitution, a new election was not to take place till the term for which the President and Vice President had been elected was expired.
He then descanted on the respective offices of the Chief Justice, Secretary of State, and Secretary of the Treasury; and, by several particulars, showed that the appointment would most naturally devolve on the Secretary of State. He accordingly moved that the blank be filled with the words "The Secretary of State."
Mr. Livermore observed, that in considering this question, he thought no reference should be had to the officers which had been mentioned, for, as it was supposed that the case contemplated would not happen once in a hundred years, he conceived that the present characters, who now hold the above offices, would be entirely out of the question. He had in view a different person, and that was the President of the Senate, pro tempore, and moved that the blank be filled with this person.
Mr. White observed, that the constitution says the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the United States. The President, pro tempore, of the Senate, is not an officer of the United States. Besides, this will give one branch of the Legislature the power of electing a President. This, he conceived, was contrary to the constitution, as both branches have a right to an equal voice in the appointment in this case. This will introduce the very evil intended to be guarded against.
Mr. Williamson said, the motion was directly repugnant to the constitution. Why not choose the Speaker of this House?
Mr. Livermore said, he was well aware of the objections offered by the gentlemen. He could have wished the constitution had pointed out the person. But he conceived that the Senate was the only body that could do this business. If either of the officers mentioned should be the person designated to supply the vacancy, it would be in the power of the Vice President, by virtue of the power of removing officers, absolutely to appoint a successor, without consulting either branch of the Legislature.
Mr. Sherman observed that this matter is left with the Legislature. The whole power of the people, in case of vacancy, devolves on the Legislature. The particular officer is not pointed out; it lies with Congress to say who it shall be. The President of the Senate is an officer of the United States. In case of the death of a Governor and Lieutenant Governor, it is common in the several States, for the oldest councillor to preside. He instanced the case of the abdication of James II. Adverting to the constitution, he showed that the appointment of Vice President, in certain cases, devolves on the Senate. The vacancy may be filled for a longer or shorter time, and this appears to be a question previous in its nature to be determined.
Mr. Sedgwick said he should be in favor of the motion of the gentleman from New Hampshire, if it was not for the express provision in the constitution, which says, the office shall be filled by an officer of the United States. Should the vacancy now happen, there would be no officer of the Senate that could be appointed.
He mentioned that the office of Chief Justice was considered as next to that of President, and therefore on the whole, he considered him as the most proper person to fill the vacancy. He thought the bill respecting the votes for President and Vice President should be first determined. He moved, therefore, that the committee should rise, and take up the next bill.
Mr. Carroll and Mr. Livermore objected to the motion for the committee's rising.
Mr. Madison was also opposed to the motion. He enlarged on the subject, and said he thought it a duty urged by a variety of considerations, important in themselves, and more so, perhaps, in their consequences, that the decision should now be made.
Mr. Smith started a variety of objections to Mr. Livermore's proposition. He thought it unconstitutional, as it would, in its operation, deprive a State of a vote in the Senate.
Mr. Bourne said he seconded the motion for the committee's rising, because he conceived there was other business of more immediate importance to be considered; and he saw no necessity for coming to a decision on this question at the present time.
Mr. Lawrence supposed that the blank could be filled up in the House; he was, therefore, in favor of the committee's rising.
The motion for the committee's rising was negatived.
Mr. Benson was in favor of filling up the blank with the Chief Justice. He observed that the objection arising from the Vice President's having it in his power to name his successor, in case the Secretary of State is inserted, does not apply to the Chief Justice. He is independent of the Executive.
He pointed out several particulars, in which there was an incompatibility in the offices of Secretary of State, and that of President. He observed that the appointment to the Regency, in all countries, is generally of the first law officer.
Mr. Jackson objected to the Chief Justice, and said the Speaker of the House of Representatives was, in his opinion, the next officer in point of dignity to the President and Vice President.
Mr. Madison objected to the Chief Justice, as it would be blending the Judiciary and the Executive. He objected to the President pro tem. of the Senate. He will be a Senator of some particular State, liable to be instructed by the State, and will still hold his office—thus he will hold two offices at once. He adverted to the other objections which had been offered against the Secretary of the State, and showed the compatibility of the two offices.
Mr. Stone stated sundry difficulties respecting all the officers that had been named; but, on the whole, thought there were fewer against the Secretary of State than any other officer that had been mentioned.
Mr. Seney was opposed to coming to any decision at the present time. He thought more important business was before the House. He was not for making any decision that would give umbrage to any officer of the Government. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of the Treasury were equally entitled to public notice.
Mr. Carroll was in favor of coming to a decision; and if nothing more could be offered against the motion for filling up the blank with the Secretary of State, he presumed the committee were ripe for a decision. He referred to the situation of countries who had not, in season, made provision for a Regent, &c.
Mr. Sherman said, he was in favor of the committee's rising and reporting the bill, and leaving the blanks to be filled up in the House.
Mr. White was in favor of filling up the blank in the committee—he saw no reason for a delay. The officers mentioned are as well known now as they will be three days hence. The President and Vice President being in health, is a reason why the subject should now be considered; it can be done with coolness and freedom from all warmth.
Mr. Lawrence said, he thought there was no necessity for precipitating the decision. With respect to every person that has been named, difficulties have been started. The subject is important, and time should be given to deliberate on the several officers that have been named. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would rise and report the bill, and leave the blank to be filled up at another time.
Mr. Burke was in favor of the committee's rising. He observed, that the members in general appeared to be very much undetermined. This is the first day the subject has been under consideration. He hoped the members would not be precipitated to vote on the occasion.
Mr. Carroll said, if the committee should rise, he hoped the bill would not be reported, but that they would sit again.
Mr. Burke said, he hoped the committee would sit again.
The question on the committee's rising and reporting progress, was carried in the affirmative.
Thursday, January 13.
Vacancy in the Presidency.
In Committee of the Whole, on the bill declaring the officer who, in case of vacancy in the offices of President and Vice President, shall exercise the office of President of the United States, Mr. Boudinot in the chair.
The motion for filling up the blank with "the Secretary of State for the time being," was renewed by Mr. Carroll.
Mr. Livermore observed, that the character of the gentleman who fills that office should have no weight in determining the question, because the House was about to provide for a case that might not happen before a number of years were elapsed. The House should fix on the officer who would, from the nature of his office, most naturally succeed. He hoped they would not determine in favor of an officer of their own creating, and of which no mention is made in the constitution. The Chief Justice, he remarked, had been spoken of: one great objection he mentioned against him—the provision which the constitution makes in case the President is impeached, viz: that he should preside. As this was an elective Government, he wished its principles preserved, and not to see the Chief Magistracy filled by an officer not the choice of the people. The President of the Senate pro tem, appeared to him a much fitter officer to fill that station: he was originally chosen by the people to the Senate.
When amendments to the constitution came to be thought of, perhaps it would be proper to provide for this case by a special clause in it, empowering the Electors who had chosen the President and Vice President, in case of vacancy, to meet again, and make another choice; only, however, for the remainder of the four years; because, at the end of that time, the power of choosing the Electors should return to, and be exercised by the several States.
If the motion before the committee was negatived, he gave notice that he would bring in his, viz: to fill up the blank with the person last antecedently chosen President of the Senate.
Mr. Baldwin said, that he should vote for the present motion, because he conceived that the constitution is express, that an officer of the Government, designated either by the law or the constitution, should be appointed to fill this vacancy. He stated some objections against the Chief Justice. He is an officer who ought to be entirely detached from all political agitations whatever—his mind ought to be kept calm and as unembarrassed as possible. He quoted the precedent established in the law instituting the Governor of the Western Territory—there the Secretary is to succeed the Governor. The Secretary of State is an Executive officer, an assistant to the President, and must be supposed, from his situation, to be the most proper person to supply the vacancy.
Mr. Sherman was of opinion, that putting the Chief Magistracy into the hands of a subordinate officer, was by no means proper. As to the observations made by the gentleman last up, on the arrangements in the Government of the Western Territory, he did not think they could be applied to the present case. That Government is a subordinate one, and a kind of legislative power is vested in the Governor of selecting, from the laws and regulations of the different States, such as he thought requisite for the Government of those he had under his care.
He was in favor of giving the supreme Executive, in case of accident, to the President of the Senate. The Government would certainly suffer fewer inconveniences by that arrangement than if the head of a department was put in. The Vice President, by the constitution, succeeds to the President—the President of the Senate to the office of the first; it is therefore very natural that he should also exercise the duties of the second in case of a vacancy.
To designate any officer as possible successor to the President, would be giving him too much dignity, and raising him, in a manner, even above the Legislature.
Mr. Carroll observed, that the vacancy might happen in the recess of the Legislature, or in the absence of the President of the Senate; the Secretary of State would always be at the seat of Government. Besides, the constitution declares the vacancy shall be filled by an officer of the Government. The President of the Senate is only an officer pro tem. If the framers of the constitution had intended the vacancy should be filled by an officer named in it, they could have designated him; but this they had not done; he therefore supposed they had in view some officer not then in existence.
Mr. Gerry regretted that the subject should have been taken up at this moment, when so much important business is before Congress. He adverted to the motion, and said, that the character which now fills the office of Secretary of State undoubtedly possessed the confidence of the Legislature in the fullest manner, and very justly; but when the exigency shall arrive for which we now are about to provide, a character may fill that office who would be a scourge to the Union. Besides, said he, if the office of Vice President was now to be filled, the Secretary of State would be ineligible, coming from the same State with the President. He stated other objections from the constitution. He thought the nomination should not be confined to officers of the United States. He supposed the views of Government may be extended even to officers of the several States. He, however, wished the whole business postponed; but if this idea is overruled, he suggested the propriety of filling the blank with the constitutional clause respecting the highest candidates who are primarily voted for as President and Vice President.
Mr. Smith remarked, that there appeared to be so great a diversity of opinion on the subject before the House, that he doubted the possibility of procuring a majority for either of the motions that had been made. There would be objections, he conceived, to any proposition that could be offered; but the committee should determine on that to which there were fewest. To the Secretary of State he thought there were less than to any other officer proposed. Those against the Chief Justice he thought unanswerable. Indeed, the gentleman who proposed him had not offered any answer to the objections made to that officer.
The duties of the President of the Senate, and those of the President of the United States, appeared to him incompatible. The first was the Representative of a particular State, and bound to obey the instructions of it. If he was to be deprived of his seat in the Senate, his State would lose a vote there, and the balance of that branch of the Legislature would be destroyed.
He recapitulated the objections that had already been made to the Chief Justice's filling the chair. His power of expounding treaties would be improperly mixed with that of making them; that of condemning for offences, with a power of granting reprieves and pardons. Then the Chief Justice could not act with propriety as Commander-in-Chief of the army and navy. It had been said, he observed, that the Judiciary business might go on for some time without the assistance of the Chief Justice. He thought not; there were three Circuit Courts, and two Judges for each, including the Chief Justice. If he was absent, the business of one of the circuits could not proceed; besides, he should preside in the Supreme Court.
He concluded by saying, that the office of Secretary of State and the duties of President were analogous. He was a kind of assistant to the Chief Magistrate, and would, therefore, very properly supply his place; besides, he was always at the seat of Government.
Mr. Burke said, that he had consulted a gentleman skilled in the doctrine of chances, who, after considering the subject, had informed him, that there was an equal chance that such a contingency would not happen more than once in eight hundred and forty years. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would not spend any more time upon the subject, but postpone it altogether.
Mr. Giles conceived, that the probability of the event taking place was much greater than Mr. Burke seemed to think. According to the doctrine of politics, he said, it was not more than fifty to one that it would not happen in two months. However, even if the chance was much less, it was the duty of the House to make provision for the accident before it occurred. If it was left till the case actually took place, it would then be too late to think of remedying the evil; for it was to be provided for by a Legislative act, which could not be made complete without the President's approbation and signature, and could therefore not be obtained when the chair was vacant. Then, if the event should happen before it was provided for, there would be, he conceived, an end to this Government.
He used another argument to urge the necessity of a speedy provision. Suppose, said he, the Vice President should die, then the fate of this Government would remain in the hands of the President, who, by resigning, would destroy its organization, without leaving a constitutional mode of filling the vacancy.
In addition to the loss of this Government, would not every member of the Legislature, he asked, lose his character, credit, and reputation?
Having shown the necessity of making immediate provision for a case of so much importance to the very existence of the Government, Mr. Giles declared he was in favor of filling up the blank with the Secretary of State. He chiefly rested his opinion on the idea, that if the constitution had not intended that the vacancy should be filled by some officer not there mentioned, they would have determined who it should be.
Mr. Sedgwick was sorry that the business had been brought forward, and more so that gentlemen should discover a zeal on the occasion which indicated too much of taking a personal interest in the question.
He did not apprehend the consequences which would follow, if the accident should occur, would be so dreadful as the gentleman last up appeared to think. There was more danger, he conceived, in ruffling men's tempers now, by designating one officer heir apparent (if he might be allowed the expression) to the office of Chief Magistrate.
He objected to filling up the blank with the Secretary of State; it would be putting in the hands of the President (or of the Vice President) a power of appointing his successor. The authority with which the Chief Justice is vested, the respect which his station commands, and his independence, induced him, he said, at first to think him the most proper person to be at the head of affairs, in case of vacancy in the Chief Magistracy. However, if it could not be agreed to postpone the business, he should now vote for the President of the Senate pro tem.
Mr. Benson said, that an honorable gentleman (Mr. Smith) had remarked that he had not attempted to answer the objections which were made to the Chief Justice's being designated to fill the vacancy, and had drawn the conclusion that the objections were unanswerable. He was sensible that there might and would be objections to any officer that could be mentioned; but those against the Chief Justice he did not think unanswerable. It had been objected that there would be an impropriety in his condemning as Chief Justice, and pardoning as President. But something like this is frequently the case. He supposed that whoever exercised the office of Chief Magistrate would for the time resign his first office. He only mentioned this to show that the objections made to the Chief Justice had not been answered because they were deemed unanswerable. But his wish was to see the vacancy filled by an independent officer; he had, therefore, no objection to the President of the Senate pro tem.
Mr. Jackson moved that the consideration of this business be postponed, which was agreed to. The committee rose and reported.