Monday, January 6.
James Gillespie, from North Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.
Pay of Soldiers.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for completing and better supporting the Military Establishment of the United States. The bill being read,
On the clause of the bill for augmenting the pay of the soldiers from three to four dollars per month, Mr. Irvine proposed an addition of a fifth dollar, which seemed to meet the unanimous sense of the members; but Mr. Clark thought this last augmentation too great. They might, in this way of proceeding, raise the pay in time to ten dollars a month.
Mr. Scott was of opinion that there was no just proportion between the wages of ordinary labor and that of military service. He could not hire a workman, who was to sleep at peace in his bed, and to dine at a good table, for the pay that was given to a soldier for enduring the hardships of his dangerous profession. An augmentation of their pay would flatter the troops. It would put them in good humor; and therefore he hoped that the five dollars would be carried through the House.
Mr. Smilie said, that the expense of living had been considerably raised in every part of the United States. The pay of the soldiers ought, in common justice, to be advanced in an equal degree with that of the other persons employed in the service of the State. Congress had lately received a petition from some gentlemen employed in the public offices of Philadelphia. The officers of the army had been talking of a similar necessity of an advance in their pay. The United States ought to pay well, that they might obtain good men. Many recruits had, upon late occasions, enlisted, and several of them in Philadelphia, who never should have been admitted into the Military Establishment of any nation whatever.
Mr. Wadsworth did not see any reason for the proposed additional dollar per month. If he had thought it necessary, he should have been very ready to mention it. In the States north of Pennsylvania, the wages of a common laborer were not, upon the whole, superior to those of a common soldier. It had been alleged that, by augmenting the pay of the troops, we should get better men. This was a doctrine which he, for one, did not understand. The present Western Army were as good troops as ever went into the field, and much better than the late Continental Army. Men of a sober character did not and would not enlist. Recruits might have very good morals, and it was certain that many honest men did not love labor. Curiosity, levity, the heat of youth, and other very excusable motives, sent people to the army; but it never was, nor never will be, the place where a thoughtful and industrious private man would be ambitious to exert his talents. For this reason, he was convinced that to enlarge the pay would answer no good purpose. As to the militia, who were, many of them, substantial people, it was in vain to imagine that they would fulfil the end of an army in the Indian war. They had been tried, and the experiment had failed. He again adverted to the impossibility of supplying the ranks with recruits above the most ordinary classes of life. He never had seen an army, such as it was believed that the additional dollar would assemble, and he despaired ever to see such an army. There was, however, an act of bounty, which might be of infinite service to the troops, and which he should take a future opportunity of moving. He referred to a provision for the widows and children of such soldiers as should happen to lose their lives in the service.
Mr. Boudinot said, that he should be very sorry to recommend the augmentation, if he thought that it would induce farmers, and sober, industrious people to quit their families and professions in exchange for a military life. This, he thought, would indeed be a very alarming consequence, and, did he apprehend it, he should undoubtedly oppose the intended increase. He had no apprehensions of that kind. America would be in a very bad situation, indeed, if an additional pay of twelve dollars a year could bribe a farmer or manufacturer to enlist. He should look very strange at any of his neighbors who should tell him that they had embraced such an offer. Instead of augmenting the pay, perhaps it was better to add something to the rations; those, for example, of salt and flour. He thought it safest to agree to the four dollars, because if they voted for five, the bill would probably be thrown out of the other House; and thus, by grasping at too much, the movers of the amendment would lose the bill altogether. Originally, troops had been raised for less than two dollars per month. The pay had since been augmented to three, and was now on the way of being raised to four. He wished to make its advances gradual. If we looked at the situations of other countries, and contemplated the state of their finances, we should be convinced that America paid her troops as well in proportion to her ability as any other people in the world, and that her soldiers had no right to complain.
Mr. Montgomery spoke a few words in favor of an advance to five dollars.
Mr. Scott said, that Pennsylvania had some time ago raised a few companies of soldiers for her frontier service, and given them two pounds ten shillings currency per month, which was equal to six dollars and two-thirds. In consequence of this, the companies had been filled with some of the most respectable kind of people in the country. They were quite of a different class from the recruits raised for the Western Army. He wished to try the five dollars. This superior pay was reported to have hurt the Continental recruiting service. He thought it very possible that such had been the case. If Government give the proposed five dollars, the Continental Army might, perhaps, get all the levies which it wanted from these very companies.
Mr. Hunter would have voted for six dollars.
Mr. Beatty said, that he was for giving five dollars, from a conviction that it was requisite for the service.
Mr. Smilie was decidedly for the additional augmentation. The recruits, he said, who had been raised in this city were sad fellows, and not fit to be trusted. Better pay would bring forward better men.
Mr. Smith said that, as to the rate of labor, good men were hired to work in Vermont for eighteen pounds a year, which is equal to four dollars per month, and out of that they find their own clothes. He thought it a very dangerous plan to raise the wages of soldiers at this time, when every article was above its natural price; because, when things return to their old level, it would be impossible to reduce their wages. The people of Europe had, by their wars, increased the demand for the produce of our farms, and this had raised the wages of labor. The members of Congress had six dollars per day, and it would be no easy matter to alter that, which he seemed to hint might not be quite improper. He thought that high pay would only serve to make the soldiers get drunk. It would be much better to give them some substantial gratification at the end of the service.
Mr. Wadsworth said that the army, in getting four dollars, got plenty, and he despaired of seeing five dollars pass through that House; but, were they to vote twenty dollars, they never would be able to enlist that class of men whom it was expected five dollars would collect. A member had mentioned, as a proof of the possibility of enlisting the sons of farmers, the instance of a party in one of the New England States, who had formed themselves into a military body, and had gone westward in quest of a settlement, but were cut to pieces by the Indians. He knew this; and he had likewise heard of others who had since gone from the same quarter, and upon the same errand. He had inquired about their characters, and had found, just as he had expected, that they were very honest, good sort of people, but somewhat of a rambling disposition, and not remarkably industrious. As to the notion of enlisting men, and attaching them to their country, by five dollars a month, it would not do. The old Continental Army were very good soldiers, but certainly some of them did not fight for the sake of their country, since they deserted by scores. They were, however, brought back, and fought very well. Their reasons for deserting, he did not pretend to know; but this he knew, that they were very idle and very worthless fellows, which did not hinder them from doing their duty. Mr. W. added, that it was a mistake to propose giving five dollars a month for fear that we should not be able to get recruits. In a short time our communication by sea would be cut off. We would likewise be prevented from emigrations into the back country. Recruits would then be had in the greatest abundance for four dollars a month, as great numbers of people would then be thrown out of employment, and enlist for want of it.
The amendment to the bill, of adding two dollars instead of one, was rejected.
Mr. Clark then moved, as an amendment of the bill, that there should be an addition of four ounces of bread or flour, and four ounces of meat to each ration.
Mr. Hartley was for augmenting the rations. He knew that they were too small. In cultivated countries they might do, but not in the backwoods, where vegetables were not to be had.
Mr. Wadsworth was convinced that the rations were sufficient unless on a march. He spoke, he said, from experience.
Mr. Giles had been frequently informed by officers in the army, that the rations were all defective. In the backwoods, the soldiers had been often reduced to such distress for want of vegetables, as to go in search of acorns to supply their place.
Mr. Fitzsimons said, that he had been informed that the principal objection to the rations was the inferior quality of the meat, and that this arose from the leanness of the cattle, as being exhausted by hard driving. Instead, therefore, of a regular increase, it might perhaps be better to provide for accidental contingencies.
Mr. Murray moved, and his motion was seconded, to amend the amendment by striking out the words, and "four ounces of meat."
Mr. Smith said, that an aide-de-camp, who was his relation, and now serving in the army, had wrote him that they were just now well fed, well clothed, in good health, and as good spirits as an army had ever enjoyed. The reason of the common rations of provisions failing in a march, was owing to the waste in cooking. The amendment of Mr. Clark, and the additional amendment of Mr. Murray, were both withdrawn.
The committee now rose and reported the amendment, and the bill and amendment were ordered to lie on the table.
Resolved, That a committee be appointed to report whether any, and what, alteration ought to be made in the ration now allowed to the troops of the United States; and that Mr. Irvine, Mr. Dearborn, and Mr. Heister, be the said committee.
Tuesday, January 7.
Flag of the United States.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act making an alteration in the Flag of the United States."
Mr. Goodhue thought it a trifling business, which ought not to engross the attention of the House, when it was their duty to discuss matters of infinitely greater consequence. If we are to alter the flag from thirteen to fifteen stripes, with two additional stars, because Vermont and Kentucky have been added, we may go on adding and altering at this rate for one hundred years to come. It is very likely, before fifteen years elapse, we shall consist of twenty States. The flag ought to be permanent.
Mr. Lyman was of a different opinion. He thought it of the greatest consequence not to offend the new States.
Mr. Thatcher ridiculed the idea of being at so much trouble, as a consummate specimen of frivolity. At this rate, every State should alter its public seal when an additional county or township was formed. He was sorry to see the House take up their time with such trifles.
Mr. Greenup considered it of very great consequence to inform the rest of the world that we had now two additional States.
Mr. Niles was very sorry that such a matter should even for a moment have hindered the House from going into more important affairs. He did not think the alteration either worth the trouble of adopting or rejecting; but he supposed that the shortest way to get rid of it was to agree to it, and for that reason, and no other, he advised to pass it as soon as possible.
The committee agreed to it, and the Chairman reported the bill. The House then took it up.
Mr. Boudinot thought it of consequence to keep the citizens of Vermont and Kentucky in good humor. They might be affronted at our rejecting the bill.
Mr. Goodhue said, he felt for the honor of the House, when spending their time on such sort of business. But, since it must be passed, he had only to beg this favor, that it might not appear upon the journals, and go into the world as the first of the bills passed this session.
Mr. Madison was for the bill passing.
Mr. Giles thought it very proper that the idea should be preserved of the number of our States, and the number of stripes corresponding. The expense was but trifling, compared with that of forming the Government of a new State.
Mr. Smith said, that this alteration would cost him five hundred dollars, and every vessel in the Union sixty. He could not conceive what the Senate meant by sending them such bills. He supposed that it must be for want of something better to do. He should indulge them, but let us have no more alterations of this sort. Let the flag be permanent.
It was ordered that the bill be read a third time to-morrow.
Friday, January 10.
French Emigrants from St. Domingo.
Mr. Samuel Smith, from the committee to whom was referred the petition of William Patterson, Samuel Sterrett, and Gustavus Scott, the committee appointed by the Legislature of Maryland to draw and distribute the moneys granted by that State for the relief of the French emigrants from the Island of St. Domingo, made a report:
Mr. S. Smith said, that there never was a more noble and prompt display of the most exalted feelings, than had been exhibited on this occasion. He believed that such a scene of distress had never before been seen in America. Three thousand fugitives had been at once landed, without the least previous expectation of their arrival. The whole inhabitants instantly assembled, and deputed a committee, of which he was one, to go on board the vessels, and examine their situation. Thirteen thousand dollars were instantly subscribed. Fifteen hundred of these people were quite helpless; three hundred and fifty of them were old men, or women without their husbands, or children without their parents. Some had credit, and some had not. Five hundred of them had been sent to France by the Minister, at the expense of the Republic; the rest remain in this country.
Mr. Madison wished to relieve the sufferers, but was afraid of establishing a dangerous precedent, which might hereafter be perverted to the countenance of purposes very different from those of charity. He acknowledged, for his own part, that he could not undertake to lay his finger on that article in the Federal Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. And if once they broke the line laid down before them, for the direction of their conduct, it was impossible to say to what lengths they might go, or to what extremities this practice might be carried. He did not agree with the member who spoke last, that nothing like the generosity of America had ever been heard of before. As one example in contradiction to this assertion, he mentioned, that when the city of Lisbon had, in 1755, been overwhelmed by an earthquake, the Parliament of England instantly voted one hundred thousand pounds for the support of the sufferers. In doing this, they had, he believed, acted in unison with the feelings of the British nation, and such feelings did that nation the utmost honor. He likewise imagined, that the Parliament had acted agreeably to the British Constitution, which allowed them an indefinite and absolute right in disposing of the money of their constituents. But as to the American Congress, the case was widely different. He was satisfied that the citizens of the United States possessed an equal degree of magnanimity, generosity, and benevolence, with the people of Britain, but this House certainly did not possess an undefined authority correspondent with that of a British Parliament. He wished that some other mode could be devised for assisting the French sufferers than by an act of Congress. He was in hopes that some other mode, equally effectual, and less exceptionable, might be devised. As to what our Executive Government had already done, as quoted from the official despatches by the gentleman who spoke last, the inference did not apply; for in that emergency, a delay would have been equivalent to a total denial. It had been said, that we owed the French every sentiment of gratitude. It was true; but it was likewise true that we owed them something else than sentiments, for we were indebted to them a very large sum of money. One of the instalments of that debt would be due in a short time, and perhaps it might be safest for Congress to advance the sums now wanted for the French refugees, in part of that debt, and leave it to the decision of the French Ministry whether they would accept of such a payment or not. He did not wish to press this expedient upon the House, but he begged leave to submit it to their consideration; and as he had not yet been able to resolve in his own mind what line of conduct the House ought to pursue, he requested that the discussion of the question might for a short time be deferred.
Mr. Clark wished that the gentleman who spoke last would be careful of preserving consistency. It was only a few days ago that he had laid before the House a resolution, by which Congress were to indemnify all such citizens of the United States as had suffered losses by the British pirates. He supposed that for this, there would be found as little authority in the articles of the constitution, as for relieving the fugitives from Cape François.
Mr. Madison, in explanation, replied, that the two cases were widely different. The vessels of America sailed under our flag, and were under our protection, by the law of nations, which the French sufferers unquestionably were not. As to the resolution he had proposed, it was not then before the House, and hence he could not speak to it with propriety. It was very possible that the House might find it wrong, and reject it. He wished not to be misunderstood, for he was sure that every member in that House felt the warmest sympathy with the situation of the sufferers. He would be very glad to find a proper way for their relief.
Mr. Nicholas said, that he had not been able to discover upon what authority the House were to grant the proposed donation. If the question should that day come to a vote, which he trusted it would not, he had resolved to give his voice in favor of the sufferers: but, when he returned to his constituents, he would honestly tell them that he considered himself as having exceeded his powers, and so cast himself on their mercy. He felt many obstacles to voting away this money without further deliberation.
Mr. Boudinot declared, that he had never been able to discover any difficulty in the matter. By the law of nature, by the law of nations—in a word, by every moral obligation that could influence mankind, we were bound to relieve the citizens of a Republic who were at present our allies, and who had formerly been our benefactors. He could not for a moment endure the idea of a hesitation on such a question. When a number of our fellow-creatures had been cast upon our sympathy, in a situation of such unexampled wretchedness, was it possible that gentlemen could make a doubt whether it was our duty to relieve them? It had been said that the House was not, by the constitution, authorized to give away money for such purposes. He was satisfied, that to refuse the assistance requested, would be to act in direct opposition both to the theory and practice of the constitution. In the first place, as to the practice, it had been said that nothing of this kind had ever occurred before under the Federal Constitution. He was astonished at such an affirmation. Did not the Indians frequently come down to this city, on embassies respecting the regulating of trade, and other business—and did not the Executive, without consulting Congress at all, pay their lodgings for weeks, nay, for whole months together? and was not this merely because the Indians were unable to pay for themselves? Nobody ever questioned the propriety of that act of charity. Again; when prisoners of war were taken, there was no clause in the constitution authorizing Congress to provide for their subsistence: yet it was well known that they would not be suffered to starve. Provision was instantly made for them, before we could tell whether the nation to whom they belonged would pay such expenses, or would not pay them. It was very true that an instalment would soon be due to France, nor did he object to reimbursement in that way, if it could be so obtained. But, in the mean time, relief must be given, for he was convinced that he had still stronger obligations to support the citizens of our allies than either Indians or prisoners of war. In the second place, as to the theory of the constitution, he referred gentlemen to the first clause of the eighth section of it. By that clause Congress were warranted to provide for exigencies regarding the general welfare, and he was sure this case came under that description.
Mr. Fitzsimons thought that it would be expedient to lose as little time as possible in going into the committee. It was hard on the State of Maryland to support of itself such an immense number of people. Besides, the period for which that State had engaged to furnish them with subsistence was expiring; so that it was absolutely necessary to come to an early decision whether the House would assist them or not. Mr. Genet had made a discrimination among the sufferers; some of them he had promised to assist, and others, as aristocrats, he had disowned altogether.
Mr. Dexter read the clause referred to by Mr. Boudinot, but could not draw from it any such inference. He was very unwilling to vote against the proposition, and therefore solicited a delay, that he might have leisure to find proper reasons for voting in its favor.
Mr. Giles was averse to precipitation in an affair of such magnitude. The report had been read for a first time to-day; it had then been read for a second time to-day. As if all this had not been sufficient, the House must likewise go into a committee this day. Like the gentleman who had just sat down, he felt many doubts as to the legality of such an act of bounty; and he wished, before he gave a vote on either side of the question, to free himself from these doubts. He considered duty to his constituents as a very solemn trust. Some personal insinuations had been cast out, as if gentlemen who professed constitutional scruples had wished to embarrass the subject. Reflections of this kind could answer no good purpose. Gentlemen (said Mr. G.) appeal to our humanity. The appeal is out of place. That is not the question; but whether, organized as we are, under the constitution, we have a right to make such a grant? He did not understand why an application was made to Congress in particular. It would have been made with greater propriety to the Provincial Assemblies, as their power over the purses of their constituents was more extensive than that of this House over the revenues of the United States.
[The motion for the House resolving itself into a committee immediately was then withdrawn, and the report was committed to a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.]