Thursday, April 9.
Egbert Benson, from New York, and Isaac Coles, from Virginia, appeared and took their seats.
Duties on Imports.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, Mr. Page in the chair.
Mr. Lawrence.—The subject of the proposition laid before the committee by the honorable gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madison,) will now, I presume, Mr. Chairman, recur for our deliberation. I imagine it to be of considerable importance, not only to the United States, but to every individual of the Union. The object of the revenue alone would place it in this situation, and in this light I mean now to consider it. If I am not mistaken, the honorable mover of the plan viewed it as a temporary system, particularly calculated to embrace the spring importations; therefore, in order to discover whether the mode laid before you is well calculated to answer this end, it will be proper to consider its operation. The plan consists of certain distinct propositions; one part is intended to lay a specific sum on enumerated articles, the other a certain per cent. ad valorem: perhaps simplifying the system may be productive of happy consequences, and it strikes me that confusion and perplexity will be best avoided by such a measure; hence, it may be proper to lay a duty at a certain rate per cent. on the value of all articles, without attempting an enumeration of any; because, if we attempt to specify every article, it will expose us to a question which must require more time than can be spared, to obtain the object that appears to be in the view of the committee. A question, I say, sir, will arise, whether the enumeration embraces every article that will bear a duty, and whether the duty to be affixed is the proper sum the article is able to bear. On this head, sir, I believe that the committee have not materials sufficient to form even the basis of the system, beside being wholly incompetent to determine the rate most advantageous to the article of revenue, and most agreeable to the interest and convenience of our constituents. Knowledge on these points can only be obtained by experience; but hitherto we have had none, at least of a general nature. The partial regulations made by the States, throw but little light on the subject, and its magnitude ought to induce us to use the greatest degree of caution.
A system of the nature which I hinted at, will, in my opinion, be not only less complex and difficult in its formation, but likewise easier and more certain in its operation; because the more simple a plan of revenue is, the easier it becomes understood and executed: and it is, sir, an earnest wish of mine, that all our acts should partake of this nature. Moreover, by adopting the plan I have mentioned, you will embrace the spring importation and give time for digesting and maturing one upon more perfect principles; and, as the proposed system is intended to be but a temporary one, that I esteem to be best which requires the least time to form it.
With great deference I have submitted these sentiments to the committee, as what occurred to me to be the better plan of the two; though, I must own, it is a subject on which I am not so fully informed as I wish to be, and therefore hope the indulgence of the committee in considering it.
Mr. Fitzsimons.—I observe, Mr. Chairman, by what the gentlemen have said, who have spoken on the subject before you, that the proposed plan of revenue is viewed by them as a temporary system, to be continued only until proper materials are brought forward and arranged in more perfect form. I confess, sir, that I carry my views on this subject much further; that I earnestly wish such a one which, in its operation, will be some way adequate to our present situation, as it respects our agriculture, our manufactures, and our commerce.
An honorable gentleman (Mr. Lawrence) has expressed an opinion that an enumeration of articles will operate to confuse the business. So far am I from seeing it in this point of view, that, on the contrary, I conceive it will tend to facilitate it. Does not every gentleman discover that, when a particular article is offered to the consideration of the committee, he will be better able to give his opinion upon it than on an aggregate question? because the partial and convenient impost laid on such article by individual States is more or less known to every member in the committee. It is also well known that the amount of such revenue is more accurately calculated and better to be relied on, because of the certainty of collection, less being left to the officers employed in bringing it forward to the public treasury. It being my opinion that an enumeration of articles will tend to clear away difficulties, I wish as many to be selected as possible; for this reason I have prepared myself with an additional number, which I wish subjoined to those already mentioned in the motion on your table; among these are some calculated to encourage the productions of our country, and protect our infant manufactures; besides others tending to operate as sumptuary restrictions upon articles which are often termed those of luxury. The amendment I mean to offer is in these words: I shall read it in my place, and, if I am seconded, hand it to you for the consideration of the committee.
Resolved, As the opinion of this committee, that the following duties ought to be laid on goods, wares, and merchandise imported into the United States, to wit:
[The articles enumerated for duty were beer, ale, and porter; beef, pork, butter, candles, cheese, soap, cider, boots, steel, cables, cordage, twine or pack thread, malt, nails, spikes, tacks, or brads; salt, tobacco, snuff, blank books, writing, printing, and wrapping paper; pasteboard, cabinet ware; buttons, saddles, gloves, hats, millinery, castings of iron, slit, or rolled iron; leather, shoes, slippers, and golo shoes; coach, chariot, and other four wheel carriages; chaise, solo, or other two wheel carriages; nutmegs, cinnamon, cloves, raisins, figs, currants, almonds.]
This motion was seconded by Mr. Schureman.
Mr. White.—I shall not pretend to say that there ought not to be specific duties laid upon every one of the articles enumerated in the amendment just offered; but I am inclined to think, that entering so minutely into the detail, will consume too much of our time, and thereby lose us a greater sum than the additional impost on the last-mentioned articles will bring in; because there may be doubts whether many of them are capable of bearing an increased duty; but this, sir, is not the case with those mentioned in the motion of my colleague: for I believe it will be readily admitted on all sides, that such articles as rum, wines, and sugar, have the capacity of bearing an additional duty besides a per cent. ad valorem. His system appears to be simple, and its principles I conceive, are such as gentlemen are agreed upon, consequently a bill founded thereupon would pass this House in a few days; the operation of the law would commence early, and the treasury be furnished with money to answer the demands upon it. This law would continue until mature deliberation, ample discussion, and full information, enabled us to complete a perfect system of revenue: for, in order to charge specified articles of manufacture, so as to encourage our domestic ones, it will be necessary to examine the present state of each throughout the Union. This will certainly be a work of labor and time, and will perhaps require more of each than the committee have now in their power. Let us, therefore, act upon the principles which are admitted, and take in the most material and productive articles, leaving to a period of more leisure and information a plan to embrace the whole.
Mr. Tucker.—In common with the other gentlemen on this floor, I consider the subject which engages our present deliberations as of very great importance as it relates to our agriculture, manufactures, and commerce; I also consider it of consequence that we should give full satisfaction to our constituents by our decision, be that whatever it may; and I think this most likely to be effected by establishing a permanent regulation, although in the interim, a temporary system may be expedient.
I have no objection, sir, to go so far into the matter as to pass a law to collect an impost ad valorem, whilst it is understood to be but a temporary system; and likewise to lay a duty on such enumerated articles of importation as have been heretofore considered as proper ones by the Congress of 1783. So far, sir, the matter may be plain to us, and we run no hazard of doing any thing which may give dissatisfaction to any State in the Union. The duties proposed by the Congress of 1783 were, I believe, five per cent. on the value of all goods imported, and an additional duty on a few enumerated articles.[19] This recommendation of Congress has been so universally received by the several States, that I think we run no risk of giving umbrage to any by adopting the plan; but the other articles which have just been offered, are, I apprehend, to many of us so novel, and, at the same time, so important, as to make it hard to determine the propriety of taxing them in a few hours, or even in a few days.
In order to preserve the peace and tranquillity of the Union, it will become necessary that mutual deference and accommodation should take place on subjects so important as the one I have first touched upon. And, in order that this may take place, it is proper that gentlemen deliver their sentiments with freedom and candor. I have done this in a manner which I conceived it my duty to do, and shall just repeat that I wish to confine the question to that part of the motion made by the honorable gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madison,) which respects laying a general impost on the value of all goods imported, and the small enumeration which precedes it: if it is in contemplation to do otherwise, I shall be under the necessity of moving for a division of the question. If I should lose this, and a high tonnage duty be insisted on, I shall be obliged to vote against the measure altogether; when, if the business is conducted on principles of moderation, I shall give my vote for it to a certain degree.
Mr. Hartley.—If we consult the history of the ancient world, we shall see that they have thought proper, for a long time past, to give great encouragement to the establishment of manufactures, by laying such partial duties on the importation of foreign goods, as to give the home manufactures a considerable advantage in the price when brought to market. It is also well known to this committee, that there are many articles that will bear a higher duty than others, which are to remain in the common mass, and be taxed with a certain impost ad valorem. From this view of the subject I think it both politic and just that the fostering hand of the General Government should extend to all those manufactures which will tend to national utility. I am therefore sorry that gentlemen seem to fix their mind to so early a period as 1783; for we very well know our circumstances are much changed since that time: we had then but few manufactures among us, and the vast quantities of goods that flowed in upon us from Europe, at the conclusion of the war, rendered those few almost useless; since then we have been forced by necessity, and various other causes, to increase our domestic manufactures to such a degree as to be able to furnish some in sufficient quantity to answer the consumption of the whole Union, while others are daily growing into importance. Our stock of materials is, in many instances, equal to the greatest demand, and our artisans sufficient to work them up even for exportation. In these cases, I take it to be the policy of every enlightened nation to give their manufactures that degree of encouragement necessary to perfect them, without oppressing the other parts of the community; and under this encouragement, the industry of the manufacturer will be employed to add to the wealth of the nation.
Mr. Madison.—From what has been suggested by the gentlemen that have spoken on the subject before us, I am led to apprehend we shall be under the necessity of travelling further into an investigation of principles than what I supposed would be necessary, or had in contemplation when I offered the propositions before you.
I am sensible that there is great weight in the observation that fell from the honorable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. Tucker,) that it will be necessary, on the one hand, to weigh and regard the sentiments of the gentlemen from the different parts of the United States; but, on the other hand, we must limit our consideration on this head, and, notwithstanding all the deference and respect we pay to those sentiments, we must consider the general interest of the Union; for this is as much every gentleman's duty to consider as is the local or State interest—and any system of impost that this committee may adopt must be founded on the principles of mutual concession.
Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect, that those parts of the Union which contribute more under one system than the other, are also those parts more thinly planted, and consequently stand most in need of national protection; therefore they will have less reason to complain of unequal burthens.
There is another consideration; the States that are most advanced in population, and ripe for manufactures, ought to have their particular interests attended to in some degree. While these States retained the power of making regulations of trade, they had the power to protect and cherish such institutions; by adopting the present constitution, they have thrown the exercise of this power into other hands: they must have done this with an expectation that those interests would not be neglected here.
In my opinion, it would be proper also for gentlemen to consider the means of encouraging the great staple of America, I mean agriculture; which I think may justly be styled the staple of the United States, from the spontaneous productions which nature furnishes, and the manifest advantage it has over every other object of emolument in this country. If we compare the cheapness of our land with that of other nations, we see so decided an advantage in that cheapness, as to have full confidence of being unrivalled. With respect to the object of manufactures, other countries may and do rival us; but we may be said to have a monopoly in agriculture; the possession of the soil, and the lowness of its price, give us as much a monopoly in this case, as any nation or other parts of the world have in the monopoly of any article whatever; but, with this advantage to us, that it cannot be shared nor injured by rivalship.
If my general principle is a good one, that commerce ought to be free, and labor and industry left at large to find its proper object, the only thing which remains will be to discover the exceptions that do not come within the rule I have laid down. I agree with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, that there are exceptions, important in themselves, and which claim the particular attention of the committee. Although the freedom of commerce would be advantageous to the world, yet, in some particulars, one nation might suffer to benefit others, and this ought to be for the general good of society.
The next exception that occurs, is one on which great stress is laid by some well informed men, and this with great plausibility. That each nation should have within itself the means of defence, independent of foreign supplies: that in whatever relates to the operations of war, no State ought to depend upon a precarious supply from any part of the world. There may be some truth in this remark, and therefore it is proper for legislative attention. I am, though, well persuaded that the reasoning on this subject has been carried too far. The difficulties we experienced a few years ago, of obtaining military supplies, ought not to furnish too much in favor of an establishment which would be difficult and expensive; because our national character is now established and recognized throughout the world, and the laws of war favor national exertion more than intestine commotion, so that there is good reason to believe that when it becomes necessary, we may obtain supplies from abroad as readily as any other nation whatsoever. I have mentioned this, because I think I see something among the enumerated articles that seems to favor such a policy.
Mr. Boudinot.—I believe that it will not be disputed, that the best and easiest way of supplying the public wants, is by raising a revenue on the importation of goods by way of impost, though the manner in which it should be done, I confess, is a subject on which I stand greatly in need of information. I should, therefore, most cordially comply with the request of the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. Tucker,) in order to obtain time for consideration, and to wait the arrival of the absent gentlemen, in order that we may have that assistance which is to be derived from them. Did I consider the question on the present motion final, I should be at a loss how to act; but this, I take it, is not the case. I presume it is intended by the mover only to lay his motion on the table, with the original propositions open for debate and consideration, till the committee are possessed of sufficient information to proceed. I also confess, that, in general, I am in favor of specific duties on enumerated articles. I shall therefore vote for the amendment; but, in doing this, I shall not consider myself as bound to support the whole, nor, indeed, any particular article which, upon due consideration, I may deem either impolitic or unjust; for I cannot conceive, that, by adopting the amendment, we tie up our hands, or prevent future discussion. No, sir, that is not the case; and as I trust we all have the same object in view, namely, the public good of the United States, so I hope that a willing ear will be lent to every proposition likely to promote this end; nor do I doubt but gentlemen are mutually inclined to sacrifice local advantages for the accomplishment of this great purpose.
On motion of Mr. Lee, the committee rose and reported progress, and the House adjourned.