Thursday, January 28.
Report of the Secretary of the Treasury.
Mr. Ames observed, that the subject of the Secretary's report, on the means of promoting public credit, is the order for this day; but when I consider the circumstances under which this order was entered into, I am inclined to wish for an extension of the time. It will be recollected that this report was ordered to be printed, in order that the members might have it in their hands for consideration; when this was done, it was expected that the printing would be more expeditiously executed than the event has demonstrated it could be, of consequence our time for deliberation has been curtailed; and those gentlemen who were against so early a day before, will think the present rather premature. In order to accommodate them, I shall move you a longer day than otherwise I might be disposed to do; and if I am seconded, I move that the order of the day be postponed till next Monday week.
Mr. Jackson.—The report of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Speaker, embraces subjects of the utmost magnitude, which ought not to be lightly taken up, or hastily concluded upon. It appears to me to contain two important objects, worthy of our most serious and indefatigable disquisition. The first is, that all idea of discrimination among the public creditors, as original holders and transferees, ought to be done away; and on this head, I must own to you, sir, that I formerly coincided in something like the same opinion, but circumstances have occurred, to make me almost a convert to the other. Since this report has been read in this House, a spirit of havoc, speculation, and ruin, has arisen, and been cherished by people who had an access to the information the report contained, that would have made a Hastings blush to have been connected with, though long inured to preying on the vitals of his fellow-men. Three vessels, sir, have sailed within a fortnight from this port, freighted for speculation; they are intended to purchase up the State and other securities in the hands of the uninformed, though honest citizens of North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. My soul rises indignant at the avaricious and moral turpitude which so vile a conduct displays.
Then, sir, as to the other object of the report, the assumption of the State debts by the General Government, it is a question of delicacy as well as importance. The States ought to be consulted on this point, some of them may be against the measure, but surely it will be prudent in us to delay deciding upon a subject that may give umbrage to the community. For my part, before I decide, I should be glad to know the sentiments of the Legislature of the State from which I come, and whether it would, in their opinion, be more conducive to the general and particular interests of these United States, than retaining them on their present footing. I trust I am not singular on this point; for gentlemen desirous of deciding on full information, will not only wish for the sense of the Legislatures of the several States, but of every individual also. Perhaps gentlemen of the neighboring States may think it proper to take up this business at an early day, because they can learn the desires of their constituents in a short time; but let those gentlemen consider for a moment, that the distant States ought to have an equal opportunity, and we cannot hear the voice of Georgia in a week, nor a month. I should therefore be as much in the dark on Monday week, as I am at present; I would wish, if the postponement is intended to answer any valuable purpose, that it should be extended to a longer period. I think the first Monday in May would be sufficiently soon to enter upon it, and shall therefore move it. In this time, the State Legislatures may have convened, and be able to give us their sentiments on a subject in which they are so deeply concerned.
Mr. Boudinot agreed with the honorable gentleman who was last up, that this subject is a matter of the highest importance, and worthy of due deliberation; that speculation had risen to an alarming height; but this consideration bade him to be in favor of the only measure which could put a stop to the evil, that is, appreciating the public debt, till the evidences in the hands of the creditors came to their proper value. I also agree, said he, with the gentleman, that it would be a desirable thing to have the sense of the State Legislatures, and every part of the community, because it would tend to elucidate the subject; but we should not be led by visionary pursuits to defer a business of this magnitude too long. I think we may go into a Committee of the Whole on Monday week, without coming to a final determination; but if it is put off for a long period, it will cause a still greater fluctuation in the market, and increase those circumstances which the honorable gentleman laments as injurious to the peace and happiness of the community. We had better, therefore, look the business in the face, take it into consideration, and go through it deliberately; but, at the same time, as expeditiously as the novelty of our circumstances will admit. In this way also we may acquire information, because we obtain more from listening to each other's sentiments, than we can procure from any other source. But if, after all, gentlemen should find themselves unprepared on Monday week, the business may be postponed to a further day. But I would by no means consent to lose sight of it for so long a period as from now till May.
Mr. Jackson.—If the members of this body had known the plan in contemplation, and they had had an opportunity of consulting their constituents on the subject, then, I venture to say, this demon of speculation would not have extended its baleful influence over the remote parts of the Union. It arose and seized on us by surprise, advantages are taken without any warning, and such as cannot but exasperate. But, sir, waiving all these reflections, let us recollect that the State of North Carolina forms a part of this Union; this measure is to affect her, as well as the States who are represented on this floor. Shall we then proceed without them? Her citizens are indubitably as much concerned in the event as others, and will you bind her in a case of this importance, when she has not a single Representative within these walls? If no other consideration can induce gentlemen to defer this business, deference to a sister State who has so lately acceded to the Union ought. But, in addition to this, I contend that the State Legislatures ought to be consulted; and I declare myself, that I shall not know how to vote until I learn the sense of my constituents. If we consent to this proper and reasonable delay, our constituents will be prepared for our decisions, and a stop will be put to the speculation; or if any man burns his fingers, which I hope to God, with all the warmth of a feeling heart, they may, they will only have their own cupidity to blame. The people will then generally remain satisfied, under the general assurance, that Congress will pursue proper measures for the support of public credit, and little or no evil can be apprehended; but much substantial good may arise from a delay of a few months.
Mr. Sherman hoped the business would be conducted in such a way as to be concluded before the end of the present session. As to obtaining the sense of the State Legislatures, he did not think that necessary. The people appointed the members of this House, and their situation enabled them to consult and judge better what was for the public good, than a number of distinct parts, void of relative information, and under the influence of local views. He supposed that Congress contained all the information necessary to determine this or any other national question. As to the first observation of the gentleman from Georgia, that speculations had been carried on to a great extent, he had only to observe, that this had been the case from the time when the public securities were first issued, and he supposed they would continue until the holders were satisfied with what was done to secure the payment.
As to the State debts, it was a subject which he apprehended would not be ultimately decided, till the sense of the people is generally known; and on this occasion, it might be well to be acquainted with the sense of the State Legislatures; he hoped, therefore, that it would be the case. But with regard to the foreign and domestic continental debts, he did not hesitate to say, it was proper for Congress to take them into consideration as speedily as possible; for the sooner they are discussed, the sooner will the House make up there judgment thereon. He believed they were possessed of all the facts they could be possessed of, and therefore any great delay was improper. He was in favor of making the business the order of the day for Monday week.
Mr. Sedgwick.—I believe the House at present have not come to a conclusion in their own opinion, on the various circumstances which are necessary to be attended to in the report of the Secretary of the Treasury; therefore, I think some delay is necessary, but it should be as early a day as we could act upon it understandingly. The ardent expectations of the people on this subject want no other demonstration than the numerous body of citizens assembled within these walls.[32] And while the public expectation is kept thus alive and in suspense, gentlemen cannot but suppose designs will be framed and prosecuted that may be injurious to the community. For, although I do not believe that speculation, to a certain degree, is baneful in its effects upon society, yet, when it is extended too far, it becomes a real evil, and requires the administration to divert or suppress it. If the capital employed in merchandise is taken from that branch of the public interest, and employed in speculations no way useful in increasing the labor of the community, such speculation would be pernicious. The employment of the time of merchants in this way, in addition to the employment of their capital, is a serious and alarming circumstance. A spirit of gambling is of such evil tendency, that every legislative endeavor should be made to suppress it. From these considerations, I take it, Mr. Speaker, that there are two things very evident; first, that the postponement should be so long as to enable us to enter upon the task with understanding; and that this pernicious temper, or spirit of speculation, should be counteracted at as early a period as can possibly take place.
Mr. Gerry.—I am a friend to the postponement, Mr. Speaker, though not for so long a time as the gentleman from Georgia proposes. It will be agreed, on all hands, that public credit is the main pillar on which this Government is to stand; but so embarrassed are our finances, that they require both time and consideration for their due arrangement.
With respect to the suppression of speculation, I do not conceive that possible, by either a longer or a shorter postponement. Does any gentleman expect, while we have a public debt, to prevent speculation in our funds? If they do, they expect to accomplish what never was effected by any nation, nor, in my opinion, ever will be. But if they could accomplish it, they would do an injury to the community; for speculation gives a currency to property that would lie dormant; all public debts would hereafter be contracted on terms ruinous to the debtors. As to the policy of speculation, I doubt whether the speculation of foreigners in our funds is not rather advantageous than disadvantageous to the community. If we look abroad, and judge by comparative reasoning, we shall be led to believe that nations derive great advantages from being possessed of the money of foreigners; they not only endeavor to acquire it by direct, but also by indirect loans. During the late war, the Dutch held 40 or 50,000,000 sterling, in the funds of Great Britain, and she was sensible of the benefit. The speculations of individuals have perhaps been of the greatest advantage to those who held public securities, by giving a circulation to the certificates. Hence it has been thought that a public debt is a source of great emolument to a nation, by extending its capital, and enlarging the operations of productive industry.
Mr. Jackson.—I know, sir, that there is, and will be, speculation in the funds of every nation possessed of public debt; but they are not such as the present report has given rise to, by the advantage those at the seat of Government obtained of learning the plan contemplated by the principal of the Treasury Department, before others had heard a word thereof. If we had either received this report privately, or not sat in a large city, then, sir, none of these speculations would have arisen, because Congress could have devised means of diffusing the information so generally as to prevent any of its ill effects. Under these impressions, I am led to express my ardent wish to God, that we had been on the banks of the Susquehanna or Potomac, or at any place in the woods, and out of the neighborhood of a populous city; all my unsuspecting fellow-citizens might then have been warned of their danger, and guarded themselves against the machinations of the speculators. To some gentlemen, characters of this kind may appear to be of utility; but I, sir, view them in a different light; they are as rapacious wolves, seeking whom they may devour, and preying upon the misfortunes of their fellow-men, taking an undue advantage of their necessities. This, sir, is the sentiment of my heart, and I will always use its language. I say, sir, whatever might be the happy effects of speculation in other countries, it has had the most unhappy and pernicious effects in this. Look at the gallant veteran, who nobly led your martial bands in the hour of extreme danger, whose patriotic soul acknowledged no other principle than that his life was the property of his country, and who evinced it by his repeated exposures to a vengeful enemy. See him deprived of those limbs, which he sacrificed in your service! and behold his virtuous and tender wife sustaining him and his children in a wilderness, lonely, exposed to the arms of savages, where he and his family have been driven by these useful class of citizens, these speculators, who have drained from him the pittance which a grateful country had afforded him, in reward for his bravery and toils, and a long catalogue of merits. Nor is their insatiable avarice yet satisfied, while there remains a single class of citizens who retain the evidence of their demands upon the public; the State debts are to become an object for them to prey upon, until other citizens are driven into scenes of equal distress. Is it not the duty of the House to check this spirit of devastation? It most assuredly is. If by the ill-timed promulgation of this report, we have laid the foundation for the calamity, ought we not to counteract it? This may be done by postponing the subject, until the sense of the State Legislatures is obtained, with respect to their particular debts. Then these men may send off other vessels to countermand their former orders; and, perhaps, we may yet save the distant inhabitants from being plundered by these harpies.