Wednesday, February 3.
Lemuel Benton, from South Carolina, appeared, was qualified, and took his seat.
Monday, February 8.
Compensation of Members.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill for allowing a compensation to the members of both Houses, which proposes an annual salary of one thousand dollars to each member, instead of six dollars per day.
Mr. Giles moved that the word "annually" be expunged from the bill. He thought the present mode of compensating the members of the Legislature a good one, and could not conceive why an alteration should be made. Such a mode of payment as was now proposed ought to be sanctioned only upon the maturest deliberation.
Mr. Goodhue explained the reasons which induced the committee to propose an annual instead of a daily payment to members, which was, that members might be induced to greater despatch in business, and to do away an idea which had gone abroad amongst many people, that, being paid by the day, the members of that House protracted their session to an unreasonable length.
Mr. Giles thought there ought to be no pecuniary inducement to members to push forward business in too rapid a manner, or to shorten their sessions. An annual salary would doubtless have this effect, and business, in consequence, would most certainly be neglected. It would be an evil of the greatest importance; it would be a constant temptation to members to neglect their duty; it would tend to embarrass all their deliberations. Indeed, it was a perfectly new mode of requiting Representatives, and would be supposed to be introduced for the purpose of advancing their pay—an idea which he did not wish to prevail, as he thought the present allowance sufficient. He therefore hoped the principle would not be agreed to.
Mr. Swanwick was against the bill, and said, that to pay members in the way proposed would be to offer them a bounty to neglect the business of the Legislature.
Mr. Hillhouse was in favor of the bill. He said, that the constitution had provided that Congress should meet once a year, and that more time was spent during their sitting than was taken up by the Circuits of the Judges. Yet the Judges had a salary allowed them, and it was not found to have any bad effect. Complaints are now made out of doors that their sessions are protracted for the sake of the daily allowance paid to them. Persons who said this, said he, do not know that we are all the time deeply engaged in business, which is much lengthened by clashing interests of different States. A yearly salary would do away this idea, without making any real difference in the amount paid by the Treasury for their services. If he thought the mode of payment would cause members to neglect their duty, as has been observed, he too would be against the adoption of it; but surely it cannot be supposed that members would not sit as long as business should require them. He observed, they had now been in session two months, and but very little important business had been done. He thought the mode proposed would tend to remedy this evil: it was an experiment at least worth trying.
Mr. Findlay did not object to the bill merely as a novelty, but because it offered no advantage. Many persons, no doubt, would think one thousand dollars a year too much; but he believed it best for members to do their duty, without regarding the misapprehensions and prejudices of they know not whom. He did not think the pay of members influenced their sittings. The greatest difficulty, towards the close of the session, was to keep members together. If, indeed, members would attend better at the beginning of a session, and take up less time in speaking, sessions might be shorter; but there must, however, be full liberty given to every member to express his sentiments in his own way. No law can regulate people's conceptions. He thought it best that the members should be paid by the day. He should never boast of passing laws in a short time, but of passing good laws.
Mr. Nicholas was in favor of the present mode of compensating members, as the period of their sessions was uncertain, and wherever salaries were paid, they were for certain business. Give members one thousand dollars, and he did not doubt but some of them would wish to return home sooner than if they had been paid in proportion to the time spent in business. Water, though insensibly, wears away stones; and such an influence, he feared, would have a tendency to undermine the integrity of members. It was better to be slow than too hasty in business. He hoped this bill would not pass as an experiment, for the effect must be corruption; and when once this enemy of all governments is suffered to take root, it is difficult to eradicate it. Indeed, this bill would be supposed by many as a cover to advance the pay of members. If there were any such view, he wished members to propose the measure openly. He thought the present pay too much, and if the people thought it influenced the length of their sittings, they were of the same opinion.
Mr. Williams was against the bill, though he believed it to be brought in by the committee from the best of motives. It was their opinion it would shorten the sessions, and, if carried into effect, it might do so. If our wages were lowered, the measure would shorten our sessions. Every penny beyond expenses is too much: a medium salary was desirable. If the pay of members was increased, officers of Government will do the same. At present, it was true, all the necessaries of life were at a high price; but when the war in Europe ceases, the case will be different. Whenever we adjourn our sessions, (said he,) much business is necessarily left unfinished; and if members were paid by the year instead of by the day, all those whose business was not completed would be ready to say that members were hastened away to enjoy their salary at home.
Mr. Sedgwick did not think the business before the House important. He was inclined, however, to favor the bill, not that he would grant a larger amount in that way than the amount of the present allowance per day. The argument of novelty, he said, would not apply: we are in the business of experiment. He would observe a fact well known, that every member in the House was deprived of the opportunity of pursuing his occupations at home, and of the emoluments arising therefrom, by his attendance to public business. He did not believe a yearly allowance would shorten the sessions, but it would remove the charge brought against members of protracting the sessions for the sake of their pay. Whether it is necessary to increase or diminish the present pay is not the question.
Mr. Livingston expected stronger motives for the bill than he had heard. It is acknowledged a perfect novelty. This, though by no means decisive, is an objection against the measure, and there is nothing else to recommend it. It has, indeed, been said, it will shorten our sessions; but would this be a benefit? If to continue in session be an evil, why are we here? If it could have been proved that expense would have been saved by the measure, that would have been a real advantage; but this has not been hinted at. It has, indeed, been said, it will remove from our constituents a suspicion that we are living here too long. It has been said, that an idea has gone abroad that we receive six dollars a day through the year. Few, he believed, were so ill informed; but this bill, if passed, will cause much more discontent than the present pay occasions. Deliberation in a Legislative body is necessary. The dearest interests of the people, he said, were committed to their charge, and he trusted they would watch over them, and never suffer them to be injured; and then, it was his opinion their constituents would not think much of their pay.
Mr. Baldwin said, that it was a disagreeable business to be employed in discussing the subject of paying themselves for their services: it would be a desirable thing to supersede the necessity of doing so. The committee doubtless thought one thousand per annum would be an improvement upon the present mode of paying members, but he could not think so. He thought it best that the allowance should be paid in the old way.
Mr. Gilbert was willing to try the experiment of the bill proposed. He did not believe that either the present daily allowance lengthened, or that an annual salary would shorten, the sessions. He thought to say the contrary was a base insinuation.
Mr. Bourne never heard it was the wish of their constituents that their payment should be annual instead of per day. He had heard it complained that their pay was too high; but now, since the price of living is so much advanced, he believed the people were satisfied. He saw no advantages from the proposed change. It cannot be thought that the pay is an inducement to members to prolong their sessions: he had not heard such a complaint. He was in favor of striking out the word "annually," and for recommitting the bill.
Mr. Madison observed, that the present bill proposed no alteration with respect to the amount of money to be drawn from the Treasury, and it can make but little difference to members. What had been mentioned as the advantages of this bill, in his opinion, would operate against it. A novelty, he said, always called for hesitation.
Mr. Swanwick thought, if they enacted good laws—laws that should encourage agriculture and commerce—their constituents would not trouble themselves about their salary.
Mr. Giles rose to remark upon an expression which fell from Mr. Gilbert, viz: that, to say members were likely to be influenced by the proposed salary, was a vile insinuation. He declared that it was a recommendation of the bill in the committee, that it would tend to shorten their sessions.
Mr. Gilbert explained, and justified the expression.
The motion for striking out the word "annually" was called for, and passed.[68]