Wednesday, March 24.
John Baptist Ashe, another member from North Carolina, appeared and took his seat.
Thursday, April 22.
Benjamin Franklin.
Mr. Madison rose and addressed the House as follows:
Mr. Speaker: As we have been informed, not only through the channel of the newspapers, but by a more direct communication, of the decease of an illustrious character, whose native genius has rendered distinguished services to the cause of science and of mankind in general; and whose patriotic exertions have contributed in a high degree to the independence and prosperity of this country in particular; the occasion seems to call upon us to pay some tribute to his memory expressive of the tender veneration his country feels for such distinguished merit. I therefore move the following resolution:
"The House being informed of the decease of Benjamin Franklin, a citizen whose native genius was not more an ornament to human nature than his various exertions of it have been precious to science, to freedom, and to his country, do resolve, as a mark of the veneration due to his memory, that the members wear the customary badge of mourning for one month."
Which was agreed to.
Thursday, June 24.
Officers of the Navy.
On motion of Mr. Hartley, the report of the committee on the memorial of the Officers of the Navy was taken into consideration by the committee of the Whole: the report is as follows:
The committee report, that they do not find any reason sufficient to justify the difference that has been made in the compensation of the officers of the army and of the navy of the United States, and are, therefore, of opinion, that a law ought to pass for granting five years' pay, equal to the commutation of half-pay, and also a bounty of land, to the officers of the navy, upon the same principles, and in the same manner, as has been granted to the officers of the army of the United States.
Mr. Sherman observed, that, by the memorial and the report, it appears that the memorialists do not pretend to have any claim on the public by virtue of any existing resolutions of Congress. The subject is very fully before the committee; it lies with Congress, therefore, to determine what is proper to be done under such circumstances. The application stands entirely on the basis of its own merits, and he could conceive of no difficulty in deciding on it.
Mr. Stone observed, that it is true there is no claim by virtue of any antecedent contract or promise; nor was commutation, he believed, promised to the officers of the army. In this view, the officers of the navy stand exactly upon the same footing with those of the army. He then entered into a consideration of the merits, services, and sufferings, of the officers of the navy; and from these and other considerations, urged the justice of their claims, as he could see no reason for the difference that had been made.
Mr. Huntington said, but a little consideration was necessary to recollect the reason of the difference between the officers of the navy and army. The officers of the army were first in the public service; the navy was not formed until some time after hostilities commenced. The officers of the navy were put on the same footing, in respect to pay, as the army; the former had some advantages in point of rank, and they were entitled to a part of their captures. He then gave an account of the origin of commutation—which was granted on account of the peculiar exigencies of affairs at that time. During the time this business was in agitation there were very few navy officers in the public service, and no application was made by them for half-pay or commutation. They were ashore, and many of them had retired to civil life. The reason, therefore, why they are not included in the commutation was, there did not appear at the time any necessity for the measure, as the United States did not then want a navy; whereas the public exigencies with respect to the army were such as rendered the resolution for the commutation to them absolutely necessary. He, however, thought the claim of the navy officers founded on justice; and justice, said he, is the strongest plea that can be urged in support of any demand whatever.
Mr. Hartley supported the memorial. He gave the officers great credit for their bravery, services, and attachment to the cause of their country. He dilated on the hardships and sufferings they endured; he adverted to the advantages they derived from captures, which he stated to be very inconsiderable. Their claims, said he, appear to me to be founded on the the strictest and most impartial justice; he hoped, therefore, that the report would be accepted, and a committee appointed to bring in a bill accordingly.
Mr. Baldwin, who was one of the select committee which made the report, stated some of the reasons which influenced the committee; also the considerations which were supposed to have led to the distinction between the navy and army, in respect to commutation—one of which was, that the officers of the navy were in the line of their particular calling, and which they were enabled to pursue with perhaps greater advantages than they ever did before. Other circumstances were mentioned by him, tending to invalidate their claim.
Mr. Sherman observed, that if this report is adopted, it will open a very wide door indeed to applications for half pay or commutation. He then gave a history of the origin of commutation or half pay, which, he said, was considered at the time as a measure of necessity, and not of justice; and has been very much complained of by several of the States. The above necessity did not exist with respect to the officers of the navy, as, at the time, there were but two or three ships in service. From this state of facts, he inferred that no precedent could be drawn in favor of extending the commutation to the officers of the navy. He thought that their case was entitled to the consideration of the Legislature, on the principles of equity; he should, therefore, be for the committee's making full inquiry into the circumstances of the whole business, and making such provision as justice should point out; but he was against the report in its present latitude.
Mr. Burke replied to the observations of Mr. Baldwin, respecting the officers of the navy being in the way of their profession; and, from the nature of the service, he showed that there was little weight in the observation. Their circumstances were very much altered for the worse, and they were now left in a very destitute situation; whereas the officers of the army are enjoying posts and places of honor and profit. Their silence on the subject has been mentioned. He observed that their dispersed situation had been the principal reason of their not coming forward with their petition before. Mr. B. observed, that the officers of the navy were not treated like other prisoners when they were taken; they suffered peculiarly, not as prisoners of war, but were treated like rebels, whose crimes were of the blackest nature.
Mr. Seney said he was, and always had been an advocate for the claims of the officers of the navy: he thought their memorial founded on the strictest justice. He introduced the representation to Congress of the "illustrious" Commander-in-chief of the late army, on the subject of half pay and pensions, which he read. He then entered into a comparative view of the relative merits of the army and navy; and said it was well known that many of them made as great sacrifices as the other description of officers. With respect to prize money, he doubted whether they had ever been benefited by it. In some instances, where they had expected the most, they had, through the failure of agents, received only a certificate, worth about five shillings in the pound; and that received only for a part of what was due. He replied to the several objections which had been offered, and concluded by saying it would be unjust and impolitic not to grant their claims.
Mr. Sedgwick observed, that no gentleman in the committee had deeper impressions made upon him, by the grateful recollection of the merits and services of those brave men to whom America owed its freedom, than himself. Yet, under the present circumstances of the country, he thought it a duty he owed the people who had confided their interest to his management, to examine, on principle, the demands which were made upon the Government for pecuniary grants. The applicants in the present instance, did not place their demand on the ground of contract. For the contract, under which the services had been rendered, had been complied with according to the specified terms, and performed to the extent of the powers of the Government, in the same manner as other claims of a similar nature had been satisfied. It was further, he said, to be noticed, that during the time those services were performing, no dissatisfaction had been manifested by the present memorialists. From these observations, then, it clearly followed, that, in point of contract, the claims of the officers of the navy were in all respects similar to those of every other individual in the community, who had received satisfaction by the same means. It would then become gentlemen to reflect on the consequences which would result from the establishment of a precedent, which would go to the invalidation of all the final settlements which had been made.
Mr. Sedgwick said, gentlemen had supported the claim of the applicants from a supposed analogy of their circumstances to those of the gentlemen of the army. He said there was the difference which arose from the circumstance already mentioned. The commutation was founded in contract; the present claim was destitute of that support. There were also other material circumstances which very widely differed in the two cases. The officers of the army were called from pursuits by which they were enabled to support and provide for their families, and to abandon their prospects of establishment by the business to which they had been educated. On the other hand, the gentlemen of the navy were promised handsome wages for continuing in that business to which they had been educated, and for which they were best, if not only qualified; and this, too, at a time when, by the destruction of our commerce, many of them otherwise must have wanted employment. They had likewise additional encouragement from a participation in the avails of prizes, while the army derived no emolument from any such source. That the report of the Select Committee being unsupported either on the ground of contract, or the principles on which the grant to the officers of the army was made, the application was merely to the generosity of the Government. He said it was a principle, from which he professed himself determined never to depart, not to dissipate that property in idle or visionary projects of generosity, which is necessary to the performance of justice. That the arduous scenes in which we had been engaged, had imposed the necessity of practising a rigid economy. That the conduct which we might, under present embarrassments, pursue, it would be improper hereafter to consider as a precedent. That it would, indeed, be a noble and generous sentiment to compensate all those losses which our friends had sustained by the war. But he asked, if such would not be a vain attempt? Can we compensate all the desolation of fire and wanton depredation, provoked from the enemy by the patriotism of particular districts in this country? Can we retribute the sufferings which have been caused by the depreciation of our currency? Or the ruin of thousands and thousands by our delays of payment, and the consequent depreciation of our securities? Can we administer to the relief of the vast number of widows and orphans, who, from those circumstances, have been reduced from affluence to want and beggary? Remember, too, he said, the sages, who, in the hour of danger, watched over your security; and who, in their best days, abstracted themselves from every lucrative pursuit, and devoted all their time and talents to the service of their country. These patriots, now in the evening of life, are the most meritorious objects of the generosity of the Government, yet they would nobly disdain to ask, or to receive the aid of the Government, however necessary to them, until efficient provision was made for the performance of those contracts, which we are under the most solemn obligation, if in our power, to fulfil. And he concluded by observing, that when the improving resources of our country should enable the Government generously to compensate the sufferings of those several descriptions of persons, then, and not till then, might we extend to the memorialists the relief which they now sought for.
Mr. Jackson supported the claim of the officers. He observed, that if the country had not derived so extensive advantages from the exertions of the navy, it must be imputed to peculiar circumstances, and not to any deficiency in the officers and sailors; so far as their abilities could be exerted, no men distinguished themselves more. Had ours been a maritime instead of an agricultural country, the importance of a navy would have struck us more forcibly. Their claims he considered as founded in the strictest justice, and he had no doubt that if they had applied to the old Congress they would have granted their request; but restrained by a consideration of the embarrassments of the United States, they did not obtrude their petitions upon them; and now this very circumstance is urged as a reason for not granting their petition. In his opinion, this did them great honor; since that time, they have been scattered through all parts of the Union. This and other circumstances have delayed their application to this time, but have not lessened the equity of it. He added many other observations, and concluded by saying that he was fully in favor of the report.
Friday, June 25.
Foreign Intercourse.
The House proceeded to consider the amendments last proposed on the part of the Senate to the bill providing the means of intercourse between the United States and foreign nations. The first amendment was to strike out thirty thousand, and to insert forty thousand dollars.
It was moved that the House should agree to this amendment; this motion was opposed.
It was said that the committee had exceeded their commission in proposing this alteration in the bill, as both Houses had agreed in the sum of thirty thousand dollars. It was further said that more than one Minister Plenipotentiary was unnecessary; that the Court of Great Britain had sent only a Consul to this country; and that, from the present appearances, no advantages could be expected to arise from sending a Minister, equivalent to the expense; the necessity contended for is merely conjectural; and by that rule, the Ministers Plenipotentiary may be increased, and one sent to Spain and another to Portugal. If only one Minister is sent to Europe, the first sum will be sufficient; with respect to the Court of London, a Chargé des Affaires will answer every purpose.
In support of the motion, it was urged that the President of the United States is, by the constitution, vested with the power of appointing such foreign officers as he may think necessary, and it must devolve upon the Legislature to make provision for defraying the expense. The Committee of Conference did not rely on their own judgment, they consulted the Secretary of Foreign Affairs. His opinion was, that in the present situation of this country with respect to foreign nations, two Ministers and two Chargés des Affaires were necessary; a Minister at the Court of Versailles is generally conceded to be requisite. The peculiar situation of this country with respect to the posts, the Northern and Eastern frontiers, and the state of our commerce in respect to Great Britain, can scarcely leave a doubt of the necessity and importance of sending a Minister to that country. This being the state of affairs, a less sum than that proposed, it is demonstrably evident, will not be found adequate.
The question on concurring in this amendment was carried in the affirmative.
The other amendments were agreed to, with amendments.
Tuesday, July 6.
Seat of Government.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill sent from the Senate for establishing the temporary and permanent seat of the Government of the United States, Mr. Boudinot in the chair.
Mr. Sherman.—As this bill respects the permanent residence of the Government, which is an important subject, it ought to be a matter of inquiry, whether the place proposed is the real centre of population and territory or not? He thought it too far southward. He moved, therefore, that the Potomac should be struck out, and a district to include the town of Baltimore be inserted.
Mr. Burke seconded this motion.
Mr. Lee desired the gentleman to inform the committee where he meant the temporary residence should be, provided this motion should be carried.
Mr. Sherman said, he had no objection to making Philadelphia the temporary residence, as soon as it was convenient. He then mentioned several particulars which would render it inconvenient to go there at present.
Mr. Huntington said, that the only reason for removing, which he had ever heard was, that this place is not so central. If there is any force in the reasoning, he wished not to go to a place less central. He adverted to the mode of conveyance to this place, generally adopted by members to get to the seat of Government. He supposed that the present centre was somewhere between Philadelphia and Baltimore; but the place contemplated is very much removed from the centre, more than three hundred miles west. With respect to centrality, he said that it is not an idea which predominates in regard to any other country of which he knew any thing respecting the geography; other and various important considerations operated in fixing the seat of Government.
Mr. White observed, that if this House was alone to be consulted, on the principle of accommodation, Baltimore might answer; but when it is considered that this bill originated in the other House, who have an equal voice with us in determining the question, and in which this place has been repeatedly rejected, it is evident, that, if the clause is struck out the bill will be lost. He then controverted the calculations of the gentleman last speaking, and stated the difference of travel between the Southern and Northern distances, which is made to be as four and one-half to one; but he said, that so far as respected himself, he should make no difficulty on that account; but the accommodation of the citizens who may have business at the seat of Government is a consideration of very great importance. With respect to the uncentral situation of the seat of Government in other countries, this arose from the mere whims of the sovereigns of those kingdoms; but modern policy has obliged the people of European countries, (I refer particularly to Great Britain,) to fix the seat of Government near the centre of trade. It is the commercial importance of the city of London which makes it the seat of Government; and what is the consequence? London and Westminster, though they united send only six members to Parliament, have a greater influence on the measures of Government than the whole empire besides. This is a situation in which we never wish to see this country placed. He concluded by observing, that if this amendment is agreed to, the bill will be lost, and we shall be without either a temporary or permanent residence.
Mr. Lee, after a few introductory observations, entered into a consideration of the relative interests of the Southern, Middle, and Northern States. He interspersed a variety of reflections, tending to conciliate and blend those different interests—and to disseminate the sentiments of union and concord. He alluded particularly to the great object of funding the debts of the United States; the seat of Government will concentrate the public paper. Hence he inferred the necessity of a situation from whence all parts of the Union may be equally benefited. From these considerations, he deduced the necessity of placing the Government in a central situation. He observed, that while the present position continued to be the seat of Government, the agriculture of the States to the eastward is invigorated and encouraged, while that to the southward is languishing and expiring. He then showed the fatal tendency of this preponderating encouragement to those parts of the country, already considered as the strongest parts of the Union—and from the natural operation of these principles he inferred that the interest of the Southern States must be eventually swallowed up. The decision of the Senate, said he, affords a most favorable opportunity to manifest that magnanimity of soul, which shall embrace, upon an extensive, liberal system, the best interest of the great whole. This cannot be done while the present unequal situation of the seat of Government of the United States continues. Nations have their passions as well as individuals. He drew an alarming picture of the consequences to be apprehended from disunion, ambition and rivalship. He then gave a pleasing sketch of the happy effects to be derived from a national, generous, and equal attention to the Southern and Northern interests. Will gentlemen, said he, blast this prospect by rejecting the bill? I trust they will not.
He then entered into the merits of the question. The States of Delaware, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Virginia, which contribute more than one-half to the revenue, and which have the only rival claim to the permanent seat of Government, are satisfied with the arrangement in the bill. That Philadelphia is the nearest centre of the present wealth and population of the United States, the gentlemen from New York themselves will confess; the Potomac will become the nearest centre for a permanent residence probably by the period proposed—to oppose this, therefore, will be acting from merely local motives.
The gentleman moves to insert Baltimore. Mr. L. insisted that Baltimore is as far South as the place proposed, besides being exposed by its frontier position on the sea; we are not confined, said he, to a particular spot on the Potomac; we may fix on a place as far North as the gentleman from Connecticut wishes. I consider the motion, therefore, calculated to destroy the bill, and ought to be opposed by every one who is in favor of a Southern situation.
This State has no pretensions to the permanent residence. It is true the citizens of this place have put themselves to a great expense to accommodate the Government, and are entitled to much praise for their exertions; but he wished to take up the subject on national ground, and to have it decided on principles which apply to the best interests of the whole. He then referred to a map of the Potomac, and the adjacent country, which lay on the table, and which had been sent from the Executive of the State of Virginia. He referred also to other papers and documents.
Mr. Burke said, he wished that the whole business of the temporary and permanent residence might now be settled. He exculpated the members who are in favor of Baltimore from all design to defeat the present bill. He referred to some observations which had been made on the conduct of the members of the States south of Virginia, and said, that they had consulted the interest of the whole. One reason why he was in favor of the motion was, because he preferred Baltimore to Conococheague. He thought a populous city better than building a palace in the woods. Another reason was, that there was no political necessity existing for removing the Government from New York to Philadelphia. He said that the measure would excite the most turbulent passions in the minds of the citizens. It is unjust to the people of this city, to remove from this place till the expense they have incurred is repaid them. It is a breach of honesty and justice. It is injustice to the State—to the whole nation. He entered into a consideration of their sacrifices and services. He thought it a very extraordinary measure indeed. It is calculated, said he, to arrest the funding system, and to throw every thing into confusion. If the bill is passed in its present form, Congress will never leave Philadelphia; for the Commissioners to be appointed will incur no penalty for a neglect of doing their duty. This is a most essential defect in the bill, and there are other defects in it. He spoke in handsome terms of the State of Pennsylvania. He said he had as high an opinion of that State, as any man whatever, but he was afraid of their influence; and that State was the last in which he would ever consent the permanent seat of Government should be. He then adverted to the influence of the members from that State, who by their political management, had raised a storm in the United States. [Here Mr. Burke was called to order.] After a short interruption, he proceeded, and said a Quaker State was a bad neighborhood for the South Carolinians. Here he adverted to the Quaker business last winter. He objected to Philadelphia, also, on account of there being no gallery in the House proposed for the accommodation of Congress—an open gallery he considered as a very important check to the Legislature.
Mr. Lawrence.—The gentleman from Virginia has observed, that the object of the amendment is to defeat the bill. He has also mentioned the States which are most particularly interested in the question. Mr. L. said, the State of New York might have been considered. He wished the motion might succeed, because he thought that it would conduce to the peace of the Union. He objected to the place proposed for the permanent residence; by the bill it is conceded that the place is not, at present, a suitable position. By what magic can it be made to appear it will be more proper at the end of ten years? What reason can be given why those parts of the Union should not populate which are at a distance from the Potomac, in proportion to those parts in the vicinity of that place? I presume none can be assigned. Why, then, is a period of ten years to expire, previous to going there? The reason is plain. The people would not now consent to have the Government dragged to so remote a part of the United States. He then adverted to the funding business, and other important matters which remain to be decided on, and very strongly intimated that these questions were to be determined agreeable to the fate of this bill. He showed, from a variety of particulars, that Philadelphia would become the permanent residence. He then adverted particularly to the several parts of the bill. The first was respecting the place where it is proposed to erect the public buildings. He said, they could not be erected within the time mentioned, and showed the various difficulties which would attend the whole business. He then stated the advantages of Baltimore, and said that that place would have obtained in the Senate, if the Maryland Senators would have voted for it. He concluded by observing, that, as no necessity exists for removing the temporary residence, he hoped that Congress would sit down contented where they are.
Mr. Bloodworth observed, that as the funding bill had been alluded to, he could wish that the objection from that quarter might be taken out of the way. He moved that the committee should rise, in order to take up the ways and means.
Mr. Stone.—All we seem to differ about is whether Baltimore or the Potomac shall be the seat of the Government; and if this was all, the Delegates of that State might fold their arms and sit down contented; but the State of Maryland has been placed in the situation of Tantalus. He then stated how the gentlemen had formerly voted, who now appear in favor of Baltimore. Had the bill come down from the Senate with Baltimore inserted, instead of Potomac, he should have had no difficulty in determining how to act; but he conceived, that if the amendment now proposed should take place, nothing would be done, and the business will be left in a very inauspicious state. From this and other considerations, he was resolved not to be drawn off from his present determination by any motion, amendment, or modification of the bill whatever. With respect to himself, he had no election between the town of Baltimore and the Potomac; yet, as a Marylander, he would, if he saw a prospect of success, vote for the town of Baltimore; but as it respects the United States, he should vote for the Potomac; and on this idea he was willing to make some sacrifices. He considered the subject as one of the most painful and disagreeable that could be agitated, and he wished to have the business finally and unalterably fixed.
Mr. Seney also considered this as an unhappy question to come before the House at this time. The State of Maryland is as much divided on the subject as the United States appeared to be; a great rivalship subsists between the Potomac and Susquehanna rivers, and he doubted not but that when the question was ultimately decided, it would be either on the one or the other of those rivers. He agreed with Mr. Lee, that Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia, were the only States who could make any reasonable pretensions for the seat of Government; but a majority of voices from these States had been against the Potomac. Pennsylvania and Maryland, he observed, had given the preference to the Susquehanna. Mr. S. then noticed some transactions of the Legislature of Maryland, which he said clearly evinced their determination to support the pretensions of the Susquehanna. Maryland certainly had an equal right with Pennsylvania and Virginia to have her interests consulted. The interests of Maryland, it appeared, were now to be sacrificed to those two adjoining States. And however flattering it may seem to Maryland to fix the seat of Government on her side of the Potomac, the real advantages were in a great measure nugatory, as it would be but a very small portion of that State that could reap any benefit therefrom. The real advantages would undoubtedly result to Pennsylvania and Virginia. It appeared somewhat extraordinary to him, that gentlemen should be willing to confine the residence to a particular spot, previous to their removing to a permanent residence. Why is it necessary to fix upon Philadelphia for ten years? Surely this is putting the Government in a very ineligible situation, for it is by no means improbable that many serious and important occurrences might render a removal highly expedient, perhaps unavoidable. Besides, after the Government shall have remained ten years in Philadelphia, the probability of quitting it for the Potomac appeared to be very slight indeed. For though it was understood by the bill that the offices were to be removed to the Potomac, yet if a majority in either House were opposed to going there, Congress would remain at Philadelphia, and they would be obliged to repeal the bill from necessity.
Mr. Scott said, he should not notice many things which had been offered on the subject. He would only observe, that from the town of Baltimore there is no water conveyance to the interior country; but from the proposed site on the Potomac, there are two hundred miles navigation directly into the heart of the country. Nor is Baltimore more northerly than the position contemplated. A connection with the Western country is of the utmost consequence to the peace and union of the United States, let the gentlemen from the sea-coast say what they will.
Mr. Madison.—In order to decide this question rightly, we ought to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the two places as they relate to the good of the United States. Now, I will defy any gentleman, however sanguine he may be with respect to Baltimore, to point out any substantial advantage that is not common to the Potomac; and I defy them to disprove that there are not several important advantages belonging to the Potomac, which do not appertain to Baltimore. The committee have had ample information with respect to the Northern and Southern positions of the two places. In point of salubrity of air, without disparaging the pretensions of Baltimore, the Potomac is at least equally favored in that respect. In regard to centrality of situation, the Potomac has undoubtedly the advantage. In respect to security from invasion, I aver the Potomac has the advantage also. With relation to the Western country, there is not a shadow of comparison. If we should go as far South as Baltimore, why not an equal distance south-west to the Potomac? Those who are acquainted with the country on the Potomac, and that in the neighborhood of Baltimore, do not hesitate to give the preference to the Potomac. It is true, that Baltimore has respectable resources; her rapid growth is a clear proof of it; but look at the resources of the Potomac; the great range of rich country that borders on it, and see if these are not advantages that must, in a short time, produce a commercial town. Sir, a period might be named, not exceeding ten years, within which the town of Baltimore obtained the greater part of its increase and consequence; a period of ten years will produce the same effects on the Potomac, because the same causes exist; and when, superadded to this, the residence of Government shall be there, there can be no doubt but that there will be every accommodation that can be desired.
It is said, that before the ten years expire, a repeal of the act may take place, and thus Congress be kept at Philadelphia. But what more can we do than pass a law for the purpose? It is not in our power to guard against a repeal. Our acts are not like those of the Medes and Persians, unalterable. A repeal is a thing against which no provision can be made. If that is an objection, it holds good against any law that can be passed. If those States that may have a superiority in Congress at a future day will pay no respect to the acts of their predecessors, or to the public good, there is no power to compel them.
But I flatter myself that some respect will be paid to the public interest, and to the plighted faith of the Government. As to centrality, the best evidence we have at this time in favor of the Potomac is the different travelling of the members; and this, sir, proves incontestably that the proposed place on the Potomac is near the centre. If any arguments could be brought against it, it is its being too far to the northward. For the mileage south of the Potomac is twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-two miles, to the north of it twelve thousand four hundred and twenty-two miles. If to this Rhode Island be added, it will not be more than equal. If the bill once passes, I am not under any apprehensions of a repeal; but if danger of repeal does exist, it is of that kind against which we cannot guard. Sir, we should calculate on accepting the bill as it now stands; we ought not to risk it by making any amendment. We have it now in our power to procure a Southern position. The opportunity may not again speedily present itself. We know the various and jealous interests that exist on this subject. We should hazard nothing. If the Potomac is struck out, are you sure of getting Baltimore? May no other place be proposed? Instead of Baltimore, is it not probable we may have Susquehanna inserted, perhaps the Delaware? Make any amendment, sir, and the bill will go back to the Senate. Are we sure that it will come back into our possession again? By amending, we give up a certainty for an uncertainty. In my opinion, we shall act wisely, if we accept the bill as it now stands, and I beg leave to press it on gentlemen not to consent to any alteration, lest it be wholly defeated and the prospect of obtaining a Southern position vanish for ever.
Mr. Gerry said, he rose with greater reluctance on this than he ever did on any former occasion; and it is because it appears pretty evident the advocates of the bill are sure of a majority, and are determined not to change their minds let what arguments will be offered on the subject. The business of establishing the permanent residence is contrary to the sentiments of a majority of the members of this House, and of the Senate, as they have both negatived a bill for this purpose the present session. It is to be regretted that it has ever been brought forward, for it is very evident that it has had a very pernicious influence on the great business of funding the public debt. He then mentioned the former removals of Congress, which had never been complained of, as the public business was never neglected. He said, that if the present bill is carried into execution, a very great uneasiness will ensue; for the measures of Congress, and not their residence, are the objects of concern to the people. Those States who think that they shall be injured, it cannot be expected will then acquiesce. He then gave an account of the process of this measure the last session. The travelling has been mentioned. This, he said, could not be considered as an argument in favor of the bill, for the expense is not paid by particular States, it comes out of the common treasury. He asserted that the accessibility to New York is better than to the Potomac. He contended that the risk by land is greater than by water. He stated the advantages that the Southern members derived from coming to the northward, while, on the other hand, is there, asked he, any thing to balance the risk and difficulties which the Northern members must encounter in such a Southern situation? He said it was highly unreasonable to fix the seat of Government in such a position as to have nine States out of thirteen to the northward of the place. He adverted to the sacrifices which the Northern States are ready to make in being willing to go so far south as Baltimore. He contended that the explicit consent of the Eastern States ought to be obtained, before they are dragged still further south. He ridiculed the idea of fixing the Government at Conococheague. He did not think there was any serious intention of ever going to this Indian place. He considered the whole business as a mere manœuvre. Baltimore holds out the only prospect of a permanent seat of Government. He recapitulated the account which before had been given. From this he adverted to the general expectation of the public with respect to the Government's tarrying here till the permanent seat was established. He particularized the expenses that had been incurred by the citizens, and for which they merited great honor. He said, it had been promised to New York that this place should be the temporary residence of Congress, and on this engagement they came into an unconditional adoption of the constitution. Should this bill pass, what can it be denominated but a delusion, a deception, sanctioned by Congress itself? He remarked on the several observations offered by Messrs. Madison, Lee, Stone, and Scott.
Mr. Vining.—When I find arguments made use of to inflame the minds of gentlemen against the members of this House, I think it my duty to notice such observations. Attempts are made to hold up, in an odious point of light, the members of Pennsylvania. Sir, it is a fact, which your Journals will justify, that the members from Pennsylvania voted the last session against Philadelphia. I trust that none of those observations will have the least influence on the mind of one single individual. We are sent here to do the public business, and I trust that our constituents have not sent men that are to be deterred from doing their duty by such insidious insinuations, such ill-founded suggestions of deceiving and deluding the citizens of this place. Mr. V. added some more strictures on Mr. Gerry's observations, and then entered largely into the merits of the question. He supported the bill on general principles, and noticed the several objections that had been made by different members. He imputed the embarrassments of the public business to the assumption, and not to the subject of residence.
Mr. Clymer made a few remarks on the observations of Mr. Burke, which were not distinctly heard.
The committee rose, and reported progress
Wednesday, July 7.
Seat of Government.
The House again resolved itself into a committee on the bill for establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government, Mr. Boudinot in the chair.
Mr. Burke made some remarks on the observations of Mr. Vining, in which he exculpated himself from all design to excite mobs and tumults among the citizens of New York, as had been insinuated by that gentleman. He declared that he believed the citizens incapable of behaving so much out of character. For himself, he disclaimed any such idea. He further observed, that the delegates from Pennsylvania were fully competent to advocate the interests of their particular State; they had given abundant evidence of their abilities; they therefore did not need the assistance of the gentleman from Delaware.
Mr. Hartley observed, that it was the fault of the New York Senators last year that they did not vote for a four years' residence in their own city, and the permanent one at Germantown, which they could then have carried. He defended himself and his colleagues from any charge of want of generosity, and also defended the character of the Quakers. The gentleman (Mr. Burke) is not acquainted with the people called Quakers or their history, or he would entertain different sentiments concerning them. Under the famous William Penn, they settled the former Province of Pennsylvania, between the years 1680 and 1690, near the close of the last century; and such was their justice, wisdom, moderation and good policy, that they gained reputation abroad. Men emigrated from the European world to this land of freedom. They preserved peace at home; for it was not until the year 1753, in a war, fomented on the borders of another Province, that an inhabitant of Pennsylvania was killed by the hands of an Indian. The Quakers had always been remarkable for their moral laws, for the plainness of their manners, and their benevolence. Nay, should the gentleman go to Philadelphia, he will find that these people will treat him as well as any other society. They merit not the abuse which has been so frequently thrown upon them.
Mr. Bloodworth thought that if the New York Senators had acted wrong, yet the people should not be blamed for it. The proposition of Mr. Burke was so reasonable and just, that he said he could not avoid approving of it.
Mr. Lawrence defended the New York Senators, and explained the reasons of their former conduct, which, when it was known, he believed, would rather merit the approbation of the people. He then proceeded to remark upon the conduct of New York during the war and since. Her revenue had been thrown into the Treasury of the United States, and every succor that could possibly be expected was received from her. Upon the whole, he wished the dispute of residence could be left to the decision of the three Northern and three Southern States; and he appealed to the House, as politicians and men, for the justice of the case.
Mr. Wadsworth rose next. He was proceeding when he was called to order. After some altercation on the question of order,
Mr. Page spoke to the merits of the question, in which he introduced several conciliatory observations, and then added, as to the place for the permanent residence of Congress, any unprejudiced disinterested man in the world, looking over the map of the United States, would put his finger on the district pointed out in the bill, and say, "This is your place, sir." As to going to Philadelphia, it is not my wish to go and stay there as proposed in the bill; but I say, with my colleague, (Mr. Madison,) that I consent to go there to get into a more central position, and to be fairly on our way to the permanent residence on the Potomac. As to our present situation, the citizens of New York themselves acknowledge, nay, even the member himself who has called me to order, acknowledges that it has no pretensions to be the permanent residence; and it must be confessed that in proportion as it is improper for the permanent residence, it must be improper for the temporary residence. The continuance of Congress here has been acquiesced in by the Southern States, merely on the supposition that a removal to the permanent residence would take place sooner if Congress sat here than at some other place more central. The wise and virtuous citizens of New York know this, and cannot resist the removal.
Sir, I was not apprehensive that the observations made by gentlemen yesterday could excite an improper resentment in their minds. There is not a city in the world in which I would sooner trust myself and Congress than in New York; for it is superior to any place I know for the orderly and decent behavior of its inhabitants; but, sir, when the member behind me, (Mr. Burke,) who alluded to me when he was last up, said that they were injured and robbed by Congress, I told him, as a friend, that had I been in the chair, I should have called him to order.
I confess I was shocked to hear that gentleman's declarations repeated by a member on the other side of the House, who is remarkable for his coolness and his peculiar attention to every sentiment offered in debate (Mr. Gerry.) I took the liberty, when the House adjourned, to tell that gentleman, perhaps too freely, what I thought respecting those declarations; if I gave him, or the member behind me any offence, I ask their pardon; but I still think I should have done my duty had I taken notice of the impropriety of their declarations in my place in the House, as a friend to order and freedom of debate.
Mr. Livermore said, that the motion for striking out the Potomac and inserting Baltimore is so reasonable in itself, that I cannot conceive there should be one person opposed to it. He observed, that Baltimore is as far south as the Potomac; the members will then have as far to go to one as the other. There is a river, it is said, which runs two hundred miles into the country as far as the Allegany mountains; what advantage can this be to Congress? I can conceive none, except that it may be to send the acts of Congress by water to the foot of the Allegany mountains. He thought that the centre of population was the only true centre. It is not pretended that the Potomac is at present this centre; but it is said that it will in time become the centre of population. What reason is there for any such supposition? The place in which this favorite spot is has been as long settled as any other part of the Continent, but the population has not kept pace with many other parts of the United States; it is therefore entirely chimerical and problematical whether it ever will become the centre of population. He then enlarged on the superior advantages of a populous city for the seat of Government, and concluded by repeating that the amendment is so reasonable in itself that he hoped every member of the committee would vote for it.
Mr. Gerry.—In discussing this subject yesterday, I made use of such arguments as appeared to me pertinent to the occasion. But, sir, those arguments have had the most extraordinary construction put on them by the gentleman from Delaware; they have been represented as tending to excite mobs, and to raise insurrections in this city. Sir, I insist that the observations I made had a direct contrary tendency. I said that the bill contained those malignant principles which had a direct tendency to agitate and inflame the minds of the citizens of America. Those principles I was endeavoring to expose, and to show what must be their obvious effects. Is this exciting mobs? Directly the reverse, in my opinion. I never had any such idea; and as to the citizens of New York, I have too just a sense of their wisdom and good judgment to harbor such a sentiment. He then adverted to the constitution, to show that there could be no danger of an insurrection or rebellion against the Government. Congress is vested with a sufficient power to protect themselves from every insult whatever; they have a right to call forth the whole militia of the Union for their protection. [Here Mr. G. was called to order, and some altercation ensuing, Mr. G. said he would say nothing farther on this particular topic.] He then proceeded to state his arguments against the Potomac, in the course of which he noticed some observations which had fallen from Messrs. Vining and Clymer. One of the gentlemen had said that "Pennsylvania had a right to the seat of the General Government." This he denied; he said no State in the Union could pretend to such a right; Congress alone has a right to determine where the seat of Government shall be. He entered into a lengthy discussion on the merits of the Potomac, and among other observations asserted that taking so southern a situation would amount to a disqualification of many of the Northern members, who would forego their election rather than attend the National Legislature on that river.
Mr. Vining read a report of a committee of the late Congress, respecting two seats of Government, in which report Georgetown was mentioned. Mr. Gerry, being one of this committee, rose to explain.
Mr. Sedgwick, in a speech of considerable length, stated his objections to so southern a situation as either Baltimore or the Potomac, and said that he should have the unhappiness, he feared, of dividing on the question from his colleagues.
Mr. Sherman offered some calculations respecting distances, and made Baltimore to be the nearest to the centre of any other place that had been mentioned.
Mr. White said, he had no idea of altering the sentiments of a single member of the committee; he did not expect the gentleman from New Hampshire would agree with him. The gentleman from Massachusetts had said something about the Government going into the wilderness; he said it was true that there was not at present every accommodation which gentlemen might wish; but there is every probability that there will be. He said that such improvements were making in the navigation of the Potomac as will render it a place affording every accommodation whether Congress go there or not. He instanced several places on the Potomac which were at this day sufficiently populous to accommodate Congress. He then adverted to situations, and observed that a line from the Atlantic, east and west, to the extreme point mentioned in the bill, will intersect the State of New Jersey, include the whole of Delaware and Maryland, and will throw thirty-one members of the representation in the southern division of the United States. He then observed, that after the present ferment is subsided, this position will be considered as a permanent bond of union; and the Eastern States will find their most essential interests promoted by the measure. He adverted to the trade of Massachusetts, which he said was greater to Virginia than to the whole Union besides; the Southern States will be cordial in promoting their shipping and advancing their interests, when they observe that the principles of justice influence them on this great national question.
He then remarked on the observation of Mr. Sherman respecting the repealing of the law, and reprobated the principles on which such observations are founded; he remarked on the attraction of populous cities, and trusted that other ideas would prevail in this country than what influenced in fixing the seats of Government in Europe.
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) said, he was in favor of the motion, as the only one which held out a probability of ever fixing on a southern residence. He enlarged on the difficulty and improbability of ever removing from Philadelphia. He said that it was evident, from the present representation, and what is most likely it will be ten years hence, that Congress could not be removed from that place. He then stated the number of the members to the southward and northward of Philadelphia, and observed that the Congress that would exist at the expiration of ten years may think entirely different from the present, and will not think themselves bound by the law; but if they should, what can the measure be denominated but legislating for the next century? A system proposed the last session, which combined a much greater interest than the present, failed; and what reason have we to suppose that this bill will ever be carried into execution? He said no gentleman pretends that the place proposed is now ready for the reception of the Government; and even if the buildings were now erected, is there any gentleman who would give his vote for going there? He would agree to a place in the neighborhood of Baltimore, and this he supposed was the furthest southern position the gentlemen from the eastward will ever consent to. From all the views he could take of the measure, he was fully convinced that the Potomac was tacked to the bill merely to carry Philadelphia; he wished gentlemen seriously to consider the consequences of passing a law which would so intimately and inauspiciously affect the interests of so many people.
Mr. Madison objected to the motion for inserting Baltimore, as it would be risking the bill with a place which has already been repeatedly rejected by the Senate; he religiously believed, he said, that if Baltimore was inserted the bill would never pass the Senate; and the fate of the bill which the gentleman mentions ought to be a serious warning to us never to risk this with an amendment; the instance, therefore, produced by the gentleman, is very much against his own argument.
The question being put for striking out the word "Potomac," and inserting "Baltimore," it was negatived—37 to 23.
Thursday, July 8.
General Post Office.
The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the bill to establish the Post Office and post roads within the United States.
The first amendment was to strike out the first and second sections, which specified and established the several roads, and to insert a clause empowering the Postmaster General, under the direction of the President of the United States, to establish them.
A concurrence in this amendment was opposed by Messrs. Bloodworth, White, Steele, Livermore, Hartley, and Gerry.
It was said, that it was delegating the power of legislation to the Supreme Executive in one of the most important points that could be mentioned. The revenue also will centre in the hands of the Executive; and in process of time this revenue may be converted into an engine destructive to the liberties of the United States; for as it is a perpetual law, and as the time may, and probably will come, when the Executive may be corrupt, as the revenue increases, the officers of the department will be increased, and we do not know to what extent the consequences may be carried. It is unconstitutional, as that expressly reserves the power of establishing Post Offices and post roads to the Legislature. It was further observed, it would be throwing a burden upon the President which he cannot execute with any convenience to himself, and, from his situation, with satisfaction to the people. The representatives of the people, who come from all parts of the United States, must be supposed to have a more competent knowledge of the proper places for establishing post roads than the Postmaster General.
A concurrence was advocated by Mr. Partridge, and Mr. Sedgwick.
It was said, that upon an accurate calculation it was found that the roads proposed by the bill as it passed the House, are so numerous, that so far from affording a revenue, they will prove a great burden to the United States. The circumstances of the country are continually changing; the seats of Government in the several States are removed from their ancient situations to one hundred miles' distance; to accommodate the people in such cases, old routes must be discontinued and new roads opened, which will be a perpetual source of legislation and unnecessary expense. This business was left to the Postmaster General by the late Congress, and very few complaints were heard; the Postmaster General, by his office, must be the most competent judge, as the business will be a principal object of his attention, and actual surveys of the roads will be made by his assistants in all parts of the United States; but if the responsibility of this officer is divided into sixty-five parts, every one of which has its own particular convenience in view, it must appear evident that all responsibility is entirely dissipated. As to the unconstitutionality, it was said that the bill proposes no more in the present instance than is provided for in the other Executive Departments; the principles of conducting the business are established by the House; the mode of carrying those principles into execution is left with the Executive, and this of necessity is done in almost every case whatever. The House adjourned without coming to a vote.
Friday, July 9.
Seat of Government.
The House proceeded to consider the bill sent from the Senate for the establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government of the United States.
Mr. Boudinot, after expressing his disapprobation of the bill generally, moved that the Potomac should be struck out and the Delaware inserted, and called for the yeas and nays; after some debate, this motion was negatived, as follows:
Yeas.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Huntington, Hathorn, Leonard, Lawrence, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Trumbull, Schureman, Sherman, Sylvester, Sturges, Sedgwick, Wadsworth—22.
Nays.—Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gilman, Heister, Hartley, Jackson, Gale, Griffin, P. Muhlenberg, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Page, Parker, Lee, Steele, Scott, Sinnickson, Stone, Sevier, Seney, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Thatcher, Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop—39.
Mr. Ames moved to strike out Potomac and insert Germantown, as the permanent residence. Yeas 22, nays 39.
Variation—Mr. Gilman, yea; Mr. Trumbull, nay.
Mr. Smith (of Maryland) moved to strike out Potomac and insert between the Potomac and Susquehanna. Yeas 25, nays 36.
Variation—Messrs. Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Trumbull, and Thatcher, yea; Mr. Sherman, nay.
Mr. Lawrence moved to strike out Potomac and insert Baltimore.
Yeas.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Rensselaer, Partridge, Schureman, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sylvester, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth—26.
Nays.—Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gilman, Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott, Sevier, Sumter, Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop—34.
A motion was made to adjourn; which was also negatived.
The bill was then read the third time; and on the question, Shall the bill pass? the yeas and nays were as follows:
Yeas.—Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott, Sevier, Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Sumter, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop—32.
Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Burke, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Gilman, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Schureman, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth—29.[37]
Thursday, August 12.
Agreeably to the concurrent vote of the two Houses, an adjournment took place this day—to meet in the city of Philadelphia on the first Monday in December next.
Previous to the adjournment, a unanimous vote passed both Houses, returning thanks to the Corporation of this City for the elegant and convenient accommodations furnished the Congress of the United States.
Adjourned, sine die.