Friday, February 23.
The bill providing for the widows and orphans of certain deceased officers, was read the third time, and passed.
Revenue Statements.
A communication was laid before the House by the Speaker, from the Secretary of the Treasury, enclosing sundry documents prepared by the late Commissioner of the Revenue, in consequence of a resolution of the House of the 6th of January, 1798, requiring to be laid before the House every session, within ten days after its meeting, a statement of the net produce of the internal revenues, the salaries of the Collectors, &c., for the year preceding. The Secretary apologizes for not having made the communication sooner. It was ordered to be printed.
Case of Griswold and Lyon.
The House proceeded to consider the report of the Committee of Privileges, of the twentieth instant; and the same being again read in the words following, to wit:
The Committee of Privileges, to whom was referred a resolution in the following words, to wit: "Resolved, That Roger Griswold and Matthew Lyon, members of this House, for riotous and disorderly behavior, committed in the House, be expelled therefrom," with instructions to report the evidence in writing, have, according to the order of the House, proceeded to take the evidence, which they herewith report; and they report further, that it is their opinion that the said resolution be disagreed to.
Mr. Davis said he hoped the House would disagree to the report of their Committee of Privileges; after this was done, the resolution could be altered in such a manner as gentlemen might think proper.
Mr. Dent called for the yeas and nays. Agreed to be taken.
Mr. Sitgreaves said there were many considerations which should incline the House to come to a decision upon the present business without entering into any unnecessary discussion; and there were others which should lead them to avoid coming to an immediate decision. He should, therefore, move that the further consideration of this subject be postponed until the 4th of March, 1799.
Mr. Nicholas called for the yeas and nays upon this question; which being agreed to, were taken, and stood—yeas 38, nays 53.
The motion for postponement being lost, the question on agreeing to the report of the committee recurred.
Mr. Bayard believed it would not be in order to call for a division of the question. The resolution implicated two persons, which he thought improper. If the report of the committee was, however, disagreed to, he supposed it would then be in order to move for a division of the question. He should, therefore, vote against the report, as he wished the cases to be separately considered, as they stood on distinct ground, and were not attended with the same circumstances; and, reasoning from analogy, he knew of no instance in a court of justice, where two persons had ever been included in the same charge when their crimes were different. If the situation of both these gentlemen had been the same, there might have been propriety in coupling them together; but as this was not the case, he was opposed to taking an opinion upon both together.
Mr. McDowell thought it would be proper to take the same course in this business as was taken in a former case. He moved, therefore, that the report be read a second time, for the purpose of committing it to a committee of the whole House.
Mr. Gordon was opposed to this mode of proceeding. Every one knew the question, and were as well prepared to decide upon it now, as they would be after going into a committee upon it.
Mr. Giles thought it would comport more with the dignity of the House to decide this business without going into a Committee of the Whole, as he believed every one had made up his mind upon it. If gentlemen intended by the course heretofore taken to raise the dignity of the House, he thought they had deceived themselves; for he believed the House was never in a less dignified attitude than during that discussion.
Mr. McDowell thought the mode he had pointed out necessary, for the sake of uniformity; but, as other gentlemen seemed to think it unnecessary, he would withdraw his motion.
Mr. R. Williams wished to know whether it would be in order to amend the report of the Committee of Privileges, or to suggest the propriety of disagreeing to it, for the purpose of substituting a different punishment from that proposed, viz: that the offending members should be reprimanded by the Speaker in the presence of the House? He believed that a punishment of this kind would satisfy many gentlemen who did not wish to expel the members, but who, at the same time, did not wish they should go unpunished.
The Speaker said that motion would be in order after the report of the committee was decided upon.
Mr. Gallatin remarked, that if the report was agreed to, the resolution for an expulsion would of course be negatived, and then any other proposition would be in order; and, on the other hand, if the report was disagreed to, the resolution would be before them, and open to amendment. Mr. G. said he rose to make an observation upon what fell from the gentleman from Delaware (Mr. Bayard.) That gentleman had said he would vote against the report, because he wished to distinguish between the two members. The reason which he gave, though he might have good reasons for his vote, did not appear to him to be correct. That gentleman seemed to suppose that the facts for which the two members were to be expelled, were facts committed at different times, and of a different nature; whereas the facts for which both were proposed to be expelled, were offences of the same nature, and committed on the same day. What related to the previous conduct of the member from Vermont, was not now under consideration. In order to have that conduct before them, it would be necessary that a reconsideration of it should be moved by a member who voted against that member's expulsion, and seconded by another member who voted on the same side of the question. The argument of the gentleman from Delaware, therefore, did not apply. He said he should himself vote in favor of the report of the Committee of Privileges. He was against expelling either of the gentlemen.
Mr. Dana agreed with the gentleman last up, in his conclusions; but he did not seem rightly to have understood the argument of the gentleman from Delaware. If the gentleman from Pennsylvania was acquainted with legal principles, with established principles relative to punishment, he must know that no persons can be charged jointly with an offence, except jointly guilty, and except they had mutually agreed to commit the offence. The resolution, in its present form, therefore, offended against established maxims of propriety.
Mr. Bayard said, the statement of the gentleman from Pennsylvania was not correct. He had stated that the offences of the two members were the same in circumstances, and committed at the same time. He apprehended the two cases were very distinct; as, by the depositions before the House, it appeared that the offence of the member from Connecticut was committed before the House was called to order, and that the offence of the member from Vermont was committed after the House was called to order. The argument most depended upon in a former case, against the expulsion of the member from Vermont, was that which insisted that the act of violence complained of being committed when the House was not in session, was not a cause of expulsion. If this argument had weight at that time, it ought also to have weight in the present case. It would, therefore, be the height of injustice to blend the two cases together; since there might be cause for expelling one member and not the other.
The Speaker observed that every thing which had been said with respect to a division of the question was out of order, as it could not be divided. He would also remark, in order to shorten the debate, that the House was not called to order when the stroke was made by the member from Vermont upon the member from Connecticut without the bar of the House.
Mr. Harper asked, if the report of the committee should not be agreed to, whether the resolution might not then be agreed to?
The Speaker replied, it could not be divided; but a separate resolution might be brought forward.
The question on agreeing to the report of the committee, which recommended a disagreement to the resolution for an expulsion of the two members was then taken, and stood—yeas 73, nays 21.
The resolution for an expulsion having been disagreed to,
Mr. R. Williams proposed a resolution in the following words:
"Resolved, That Roger Griswold and Matthew Lyon, for riotous and disorderly behavior in this House, are highly censurable, and that they be reprimanded by the Speaker in the presence of this House."
Mr. Harper moved the previous question upon this resolution. He did it, he said, upon this ground. The House had just decided, and they had lately decided in another instance, that disorderly conduct shall not be punished by expulsion; and it was his opinion that no less punishment than expulsion ought to be inflicted, as he was unwilling to diminish the reprehensive power of the House, by inflicting what he thought inadequate punishment for offences of this nature. If there were any gentlemen who thought this conduct excusable, and that it ought not to be punished, they would, of course, vote in favor of the previous question; and those who thought with him, that both ought to be expelled, would also vote in favor of it.
Mr. Nicholas called for the yeas and nays upon this question. Agreed to be taken.
Mr. Gallatin said, by the gentleman from South Carolina having moved the previous question, he had excluded any discussion upon the merits of the main question. Mr. G. wished some reasons might be given why the main question ought not to be put. Those given by the gentleman from South Carolina were applicable to the resolution itself: they were reasons why he should vote against the resolution, but they did not strike him as reasons why the question should not at all be taken.
The previous question was then put in this form: "Shall the main question (viz: the resolution for reprimanding the offending members) now be put?" And the yeas and nays were taken, and stood—yeas 47, nays 48, as follows:
Yeas.—Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Samuel J. Cabell, Thomas Claiborne, William Charles Cole Claiborne, Matthew Clay, John Clopton, Thomas T. Davis, John Dawson, Lucas Elmendorph, William Findlay, John Fowler, Nathaniel Freeman, jun., Albert Gallatin, William B. Giles, James Gillespie, Andrew Gregg, John A. Hanna, Carter B. Harrison, Jonathan N. Havens, Joseph Heister, David Holmes, Walter Jones, Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel Macon, Blair McClenachan, Joseph McDowell, John Milledge, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Thompson J. Skinner, Samuel Smith, William Smith, Richard Sprigg, Richard Stanford, Thomas Sumter, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, and Robert Williams.
Nays.—John Allen, George Baer, jun., Bailey Bartlett, James A. Bayard, David Brooks, Stephen Bullock, Christopher G. Champlin, John Chapman, James Cochran, Joshua Coit, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, George Dent, Thos. Evans, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, William Gordon, William Barry Grove, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, William Hindman, Hezekiah L. Hosmer, James H. Imlay, John Wilkes Kittera, Samuel Lyman, James Machir, William Matthews, Lewis R. Morris, Harrison G. Otis, Isaac Parker, John Read, John Rutledge, jun., Samuel Sewall, William Shepard, Thomas Sinnickson, Samuel Sitgreaves, Nathaniel Smith, Peleg Sprague, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thomson, Thomas Tillinghast, John E. Van Allen, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams.