Friday, March 12.
The House being informed that Narsworthy Hunter, the Delegate from the Mississippi Territory, in this House, died last evening:
On motion, it was
Resolved, That a committee be appointed to take order for superintending the funeral of Narsworthy Hunter, late a Delegate from the Mississippi Territory; and that this House will attend the same.
Resolved, That the members testify their respect for the memory of the said Narsworthy Hunter, by wearing a crape on the left arm, for one month.
Resolved, That the Speaker of this House address a letter to the Governor of the Mississippi Territory, to inform him of the death of Narsworthy Hunter, the Delegate from the said Territory in this House, in order that measures may be taken to supply the vacancy occasioned thereby.
Ordered, That Mr. Leib, Mr. Davis, Mr. Holland, Mr. Rutledge, and Mr. Lewis R. Morris, be appointed a committee, pursuant to the first resolution.
State Balances.
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill to extinguish the claims of the United States for balances reported against certain States by Commissioners appointed to settle the accounts between the United States and the individual States.
Mr. Thomas.—Mr. Chairman, I rise, with a great deal of diffidence, to deliver my sentiments on this floor, as I have not been accustomed to public speaking; however, a sense of my duty as a Representative of the United States, as well as the immediate Representative from the State of New York, impels me, on this occasion, to ask the indulgence of the Committee while I make a few remarks on the subject of the bill now under consideration.
Sir, a number of the debtor States, and particularly the one which I have the honor to represent, have always believed that they were prodigiously injured in the settlement that was made; they have always believed that there was something radically wrong, grossly unequal, in the accounts exhibited by the individual States, and allowed by the Board of Commissioners; in this belief, they have frequently called for information on the subject, for a re-examination of that settlement, and have as often been denied it.
Much might be said to prove that the very economical system adopted and adhered to by the State of New York in limiting the prices of produce, and in liquidating the accounts of her citizens for supplies furnished during the Revolutionary war, operated particularly prejudicial to that State in the settlement. I shall, however, waive any remarks on this for the present, and confine myself principally to the rule which was adopted for apportioning the expenses of the war among the several States. Sir, the committee will recollect that by an act of Congress passed in the year 1789, the enumeration of inhabitants made in the year 1791 was adopted as the rule for apportioning this debt among the thirteen States.
I shall in the first place examine the original contract entered into by these States, and under which these expenses were incurred, and then endeavor to show the effect which, adopting an enumeration made seven or eight years after the close of the war, had upon the several States different from what the same rule would have produced had the apportionment been made according to the numbers in each State at that period, say 1784.
In the year 1778, the people of these States entered into a confederation for various purposes, one of which was, to prosecute the war against Great Britain. In the eighth article of this compact it was expressly agreed that—
"All charges of the war, and all other expenses that should be incurred for the common defence, and general welfare, and allowed by the United States in Congress assembled, should be defrayed out of a common treasury, which should be supplied by the several States in proportion to the value of all lands within each State granted to or surveyed for any person as such lands and the building and improvements thereon should be estimated, according to such mode as the United States in Congress assembled, should from time to time direct and appoint."
This, Mr. Chairman, was the agreement under which this debt was incurred; and here allow me to ask the honorable gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Bacon) whether he was correct when he told us the other day that this settlement had been made agreeably to the articles of Confederation; and, further, whether, agreeably to that compact, the State which he represents would have been allowed for her losses in the Penobscot expedition, which has enabled her to become a creditor State of upwards of one million two hundred thousand dollars, and more than one-third of the whole amount of the balances. Sir, had the original agreement under which these expenses were incurred been adhered to in the settlement, no one ought now to complain; but, in order to comply with it, the expenses of the war ought to have been apportioned among the several States according to the value of the lands and buildings at the time these expenses were incurred, and I do contend that the period immediately after the termination of the war was the only proper one for carrying into effect this stipulation. I am persuaded that no gentleman on this floor will deny that the existing circumstances of the several States at that period were the most proper to determine the just proportion which each State ought to pay of these expenses, by whatever rule might be adopted. Admitting, then, that Congress had the power, and it was judged expedient to deviate from the original contract, and adopt as the rule of apportionment the enumeration of inhabitants as a more practicable one, ought it not to have had reference to the numbers in each State at the close of the war? Most unquestionably, Mr. Chairman, no gentleman will deny this, and that the year 1784 was the proper time. It may, however, be said that no enumeration was made till the year 1791, seven years afterwards. I grant it. But will this alter the justness of my position? Not at all. It must be obvious in the mind of every gentleman who has reflected on the subject, that the relative numbers in each State had changed materially between the year 1784, when this settlement ought to have been made, and the year 1791, when it was made. In order to establish this fact, I have adopted this method; I have admitted what I believe every gentleman who hears me will, without hesitation: that there has been no material variation in the increase of population in the several States since the year 1784; that the increase was nearly, if not correctly, in the same ratio between the years 1784 and 1791, with the increase between the years 1791 and 1801; that is, that the relative increase of population in the several States was nearly, if not correctly, in the same proportion for the seven years previous to the year 1791 that it was for the ten years subsequent to that period.
This I have established as my data, by which I have ascertained the numbers in each State in the year 1784, and having apportioned the whole debt among the several States, according to the enumeration, I find the following to be the result:
That the State of Massachusetts, instead of being a creditor of $1,248,801, she would have been a creditor for only $863,267; that the State of Connecticut, instead of being a creditor State of $619,121, she would have been a debtor State for $235,419; that the State of Rhode Island, instead of being a creditor State for $299,611, she would have been a debtor State for $13,212; that the State of New Jersey, instead of being a creditor for $49,030, she would have been a debtor State for $300,201; that the State of New York, instead of being a debtor State for $2,074,846, she would have been a creditor State for $965,921, &c.
This, Mr. Chairman, would have been the situation of these States had the apportionment been made according to the numbers in each State in the year 1784. As for the accuracy of this statement I think I can with safety pledge myself; it is, however, open for any gentleman who will give himself the trouble to examine it for himself. The principles on which it has been made cannot be disputed, as it respects the State of New York; if any thing, it does not make enough in her favor, for it is evident that the emigration into that State from the neighboring States was greater for the first seven years after the close of the war than it has been for any subsequent seven years.
Will, then, Mr. Chairman, any gentleman hesitate a moment to pronounce the rule of apportionment which was adopted unjust, unequal, and erroneous? Will any gentleman say, sir, that the rule of apportionment was a just one, or as just as the nature of the case would admit of, which brought the State of New York in debt upwards of two millions—two-thirds of the whole amount of the balances—when, on the principles of righteousness, on the principles of legal contract, or any other principles, but an unauthorized act of Congress, that State would have been a creditor State for nearly a million?
Mr. Chairman, I admit, as the settlement has been made, and the creditor States have received their balances, that it would be improper now to take up this subject de novo, and endeavor to compel those States to refund what they have received more than they were entitled to; this is not expected—it is not asked; all that is asked of you is, that you render such justice to those injured States as the present situation of this transaction will admit of; this is all that is contemplated in the bill now before us.
Sir, as to the present situation of the State of New York with respect to this subject, she has not acknowledged the justice of this claim, as was stated by some gentlemen when this question was under consideration the other day; she has uniformly denied it. It is true she did comply with the act of Congress passed in February, 1799, and has expended and been credited on the books of your Treasury for $223,810 under that act; she did this, not from a conviction of the justice of the claim, but from motives which have always actuated her conduct, as well during the Revolutionary war as since, to do every thing in her power for the general welfare of the nation, whenever its exigencies required it, and also from an expectation that the other States called debtor States would do the same, and thereby get rid of an evil which she considers as having a tendency to alienate the good will and cordial affection so necessary to be cherished between these States—a cause, sir, which has and will, while it is suffered to exist, occasion perpetual irritation and disquiet, as well to the creditor as to the debtor States, and which may at some future period produce consequences more fatal.
I say, sir, these were her motives in agreeing to that measure; and did she not evince a magnanimous spirit by doing it? a willingness to suffer an additional injury herself, rather than not remove a cause which might put in jeopardy the peace and harmony of these United States? But, Mr. Chairman, as it can answer no useful purpose to have the remainder of the money expended in the manner directed by the act—and this I am warranted in stating to the committee, not only as my own opinion, but as the opinion of the gentleman who was employed under Government as an agent or commissioner to superintend the expenditure already made—as no other State has evinced a disposition to extinguish these balances by paying any part of them, or by complying with any of the terms heretofore offered by Congress; and as it must be admitted on all hands that Congress have no power to effect it by eviction, I ask gentlemen if it would be just or reasonable that the State of New York, who has been injured more in the settlement than any other State in the Union; who has already paid upwards of $220,000 towards these balances, and who is the only State that has, or in all probability ever will, pay a cent towards them—I say, I ask gentlemen of the committee whether it would be just that that State should now be driven to one of two alternatives; either to draw near a million of dollars from her citizens and expend it where it will answer no useful purpose to the State nor to the nation, or to withhold any further appropriations, and thereby incur the imputation of having violated her faith? I call upon gentlemen seriously to consider whether it would not be prodigiously unjust to hold that State in this predicament; whether it would not be adding injury to injustice to do it?
Mr. Chairman, I do flatter myself that the representatives of this nation, convened here to legislate on fair and equitable principles, will not suffer a new wound to be inflicted on that State, but that they will unite with one accord in passing the bill now before us, and thereby not only heal the one already made on that, as well as several of her sister States, but remove a rock which may endanger our Federal ship.
The bill was supported by Messrs. Randolph, Van Rensselaer, Hill, Van Ness, Gregg, Bayard, Smilie, Macon, S. Smith, Claiborne, and Holland—and opposed by Messrs. Elmer, Bacon, Eustis, Hastings, and Butler.
The question was then taken on the committee rising, and reporting the bill without amendment, and carried—yeas 47, nays 33.
A motion was then made that the bill be engrossed for a third reading on Tuesday, and carried—yeas 47, nays 35.
A motion was then made by Mr. Leib to recommit the report of the select committee on which the above bill was founded, in order to correct an erroneous statement in relation to Pennsylvania.