Tuesday, May 30.
John Fowler, from Kentucky, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.
Answer to President's Speech.
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the Address reported in Answer to the Speech of the President of the United States; when
Mr. Coit said he thought that part of the 5th paragraph which related to the Executive Directory would be less exceptionable, and equally convey their disapprobation of such sentiments, if it were expressed more generally, and without any allusion to M. Barras. He proposed, therefore, to strike out from "at," in the 4th line of the 5th paragraph, to "United States," in the 6th line, and to insert "any sentiments tending to derogate from that confidence; such sentiments, wherever entertained, serve to evince an imperfect knowledge of the real opinion of our constituents."
Mr. W. Smith objected to the amendment of the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. Coit,) because it was hypothetical. He wished, as the fact was clearly established, to have a direct reference to the Speech of Barras, in their indignation at the sentiments. As the matter had appeared of sufficient importance to find a place in the President's Speech, he thought it was also worthy of their notice. He insisted upon its being an attempt to divide the people of this country from their Government, by speaking insultingly of the latter, and flattering the former. He did not exactly know what was meant by the "suggestion of our former tyrants," but he supposed it meant bribery, and that by "perfidious people," General Washington was included.
Mr. W. Smith said, that by the Government, the Executive only was meant. He was convinced of this from the manner in which he had seen the word used in the French Government paper, entitled the Redacteur.
Mr. Coit believed, that whatever M. Barras had said, it was not worth their attention. We might defy France or Frenchmen to say worse of us than they themselves said. He did not himself know how far the Speech of Barras was an act of Government; for, said he, when we directed our Speaker to reprimand Randal and Whitney, the words he used upon the occasion were not an act of the House. On another occasion, when the House were about to receive the French flag, they could not call what was said by the Speaker on that occasion, an act of the House.
Mr. Williams said, if Mr. Pinckney's letter was an authentic paper, the Speech of Barras was likewise so; and if so, it was doubtless an indignity to Government. He did not think with the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. Freeman,) that it was "childish gasconade." He believed it was intended as an insult to the Government of this country. As to the gratitude which had been said to belong to the French nation, for their assistance in the war, he thought their services were amply repaid by the separation of this country from Great Britain. Besides, he added, the French never came to the assistance of this country until they saw we were likely to be successful in our struggle.
Mr. Gordon said there could be no doubt of the authenticity of Barras' Speech, since it stood upon the same ground as the rest of the documents. It was a flagrant insult upon Government, in his opinion, and warranted all that had been said upon it, as it was doubtless an attempt to separate the people from the Government.
Mr. Thatcher said the question was, whether or not any notice should be taken of the insulting Speech of Barras. When, said he, the French flag was presented to this House, we were told we were not to stop to reason, but to express forthwith our feelings of affection. But now, when the most unexampled insult is offered us, such as one man would not receive from another, we are not to notice it at all, lest it should offend the French Republic. He knew of only one reason for passing it over in silence, and that, it was true, had some weight with him. That Barras spoke as the organ of the French nation, there could be no doubt; but he had his doubts whether he knew himself what he said. The Speech had strong marks of delirium, and he could not help believing that, when he delivered it, he was either drunk or mad. If the world went on for six thousand years to come, they would never again behold such a production.
Mr. McDowell was in favor of the amendment. He did not think himself bound, as had been insinuated by the gentleman from South Carolina, to echo all the sentiments in the President's Speech. He wished to have an opinion of his own. He agreed that Barras' Speech was an indignity to the United States. He felt it, and would express it: but he did not think this the proper time. He denied the justness of the construction put upon the Speech by the gentleman from South Carolina. He supposed by "perfidious persons," was meant the persons in this country, generally called the "British faction." He differed in opinion also with that gentleman on the subject of dividing the people and Government, and could not allow that the phrase "good people" was intended as an insult. He allowed it was going too far to say that we owed our liberty to France; but being in some respect true, it took off from the offence. He was sorry to see on one side of the House constant attempts made to excite the resentment of the people of this country against France. It was not necessary at present to raise such feelings. They were not about to unsheath the sword, and to say, "We conquer or die." What gentlemen could not effect by reason, they seemed inclined to effect in a different way. He did not think this fair conduct.
Mr. Venable supported the amendment. He did not think any of the objections made against it had much weight in them. He thought the mode of expressing our sense of the indignity shown to this country by the Speech in question, was judiciously chosen by the gentleman from Connecticut. It was most consistent with dignity. It was not wise in them to take notice of every harsh expression which might be used against this country in any foreign nation; for, if such were our conduct, foreign nations would have good ground of complaint against us, and on that floor the account would be settled. Nor did he think it very becoming or dignified in gentlemen in that House so to express themselves as to excite frequent risibility; nor was it very honorable to that Assembly. [Alluding to the gentleman from Massachusetts.]
Mr. Sitgreaves had no doubt of the Speech of Barras being an official paper, and that its object was to divide the people from the Government. If he proved this, he trusted the language of the report would be preserved. It would be allowed that Barras was the mouth of the Directory, and that the sentiments which he speaks, are not his own, but what were beforehand agreed upon. It was doubtless, therefore, a solemn official act. With respect to the observation of the gentleman from Virginia, that what he said respecting our Government was not applicable to the Executive, but to the people at large, he believed he was wholly mistaken, as the word Government, in the French language, constantly meant Executive, as was abundantly clear from the way in which it was used in Mr. Adet's notes. [He quoted a number of passages to prove his assertion.] It was generally used for the Executive in contradistinction to Congress, or any other of the constituted authorities. If it were clearly intended to convey an insult upon our Executive, (and there could be no doubt of it,) even the mover of the amendment could not think it unbecoming in that House to express themselves in the words of the Address.
Mr. Gallatin said, whatever might be the insult intended by the Speech of the Executive Directory, he thought it best to notice it in general terms as it was the sentiment which was objectionable and not the Government of France. But as so much had been said about Government and people, he would say, that an insult offered to the people could not be less offensive than one offered to the Government. He supposed they alluded to the British Treaty, which was as much the instrument of Congress as of the Executive, and of the people as either, since they very generally petitioned in favor of it. He then took notice of the perversions which the gentleman from South Carolina had put upon the words of Barras, and denied that there was the least ground for them, and said that the Gazette of the United States might as well be called a Government paper of this country, as the Redacteur, that of France. If, said Mr. G., it be our intention to declare war at once, then there might be some propriety in taking hold of every word which would bear to be construed into an insult, but if we wished for peace, it was unwise to do so. Besides, he said, this Speech was not communicated in an official manner, nor could it be so communicated. It was sent by Mr. Pinckney in a newspaper, from which the copy sent to them was translated, but the translation was not even authenticated, as usual. He did not dispute the fact, but it was a thing which they were not bound to notice; indeed, an error with respect to a name appeared on the face of the paper; and being delivered to Mr. Monroe, who was no longer Minister, it could not be officially communicated. He therefore thought it was not worth their notice.
Mr. Otis thought it right to pay respect to what was recommended by the President. The question was whether they should notice the insult generally, or in reference to the Directory. He was in favor of the first; but as this was the only opportunity given in the Address of expressing their opinion of the conduct of the French Government, he wished the Address to stand as reported.
Mr. O. remarked upon Barras' Speech. He did not know what was meant by granting peace. When parties were at war, one granted the other peace; or sometimes a stronger power suffered a weaker to be at peace. He supposed the French meant it in the latter sense towards this country. On condition that we respect her sovereignty! What was meant here? If it was sovereignty over their own nation, we had nothing to do with it; if it was any other, it must be the sovereignty they had over us. He concluded by remarking, that if there were any members in that House upon whom any imputation could rest of their being unduly attached to the French cause, he thought it a good opportunity to come forward and convince the world that the charges were unjust.
Mr. Livingston took notice of what had fallen from the gentleman last up, and showed the folly of adopting an irritating tone; as, if we charged a foreign government with making use of one disrespectful expression, they would have no difficulty in retorting the complaint, as in the course of that debate, the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Harper) had called the King of Spain the humble vassal of France, and had not been sparing of his epithets to other powers; and the gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Thatcher) had termed Barras drunk or mad. He also noticed the constructions put upon the words "granting peace," and "sovereignty," as very extravagant. The Speech, he allowed, was bad enough, but he saw no reason for torturing it in this manner.
Mr. Giles said the gentleman from Massachusetts had called upon persons who might lie under imputation of being friends to France, to come forward, and show the imputation false. He informed that gentleman that he did not feel his reputation hurt by any imputation which he or any other person might throw upon him. He would rather the gentleman would convince them they were wrong, than call them names.
Mr. Otis explained. He declared he meant only to say that they had been unjustly charged with those imputations, and that such a conduct would show it.
Mr. W. Smith again urged the propriety of retaining the words in the Address as reported, as the amendment proposed had no reference to the President's Speech, as that referred to an official act; whereas the amendment had no relation to France, but would apply to the people of China, or the people of this country, as well as to those of France. He believed the discussion had been of some use, because it was now on all sides acknowledged that the Speech of Barras was an insult, which was not allowed at the beginning of the debate. He could only say that gentlemen died hard; to use the expression of his friend from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Sitgreaves,) they seem determined to die in the last ditch. The objections to the words of the present Address, were like the objections of Thomas Paine to the writings of Moses. He denied that there was any similarity between expressions used in debate in that House, and expressions used by an Executive authority. No notice, he said, ought to be taken of what fell from members in that House, whilst they were allowed to be in order; and if foreign Ministers attended to hear their debates, and heard things which they did not like, they ought not to take exceptions at it, since they came there uninvited, and it was their duty to say what appeared to them right at the time.
The question was put on the amendment, when there appeared 49 votes for it, and 49 against it. The Chairman declared it carried in the affirmative.