Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856, Vol. 2 (of 16)

by United States. Congress

Wednesday, December 14.

Thomas Henderson, from New Jersey, and Thomas Hartley, from Pennsylvania, appeared and took their seats in the House.

Reporting of the Debates.

Mr. W. Smith moved for the order of the day on the petitions of Thomas Lloyd and Thomas Carpenter, whereupon the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, when, having read the report of the committee to whom it was referred,

Mr. Macon wished some gentleman who was in that committee, would be so good as to inform the House what would be the probable expense, and for what reason the House should go into the business. He thought the expense altogether unnecessary, whatever it may be.

If the debates of this House were to be printed, and four or five copies given to each member, they would employ all the mails of the United States. He also adverted to the attempt at the last session to introduce a stenographer into the House, which failed.

Mr. Smith informed the gentleman that Mr. Lloyd's estimate of the expenses is, that he will supply the House with his reports at the rate of three cents per half sheet. His calculation is that he can supply the members at the expense of about $1,600 for the session. With respect to the gentleman's reference to last session, this was materially different from that: that motion was to make the person an officer of this House, and at an expense much greater. He thought this attempt would be of great use to the House. Regular and accurate information of the debates in the House would be a very desirable thing; he therefore hoped the resolution would prove agreeable to the House.

Mr. Williams said, that the House need not go into unnecessary expense: the members were now furnished, morning and evening, with newspapers, which contained the debates; then why should the House wish for more? If one person in particular has the sale of his debates to this House, will it not destroy the advantages any other can derive from it? We ought not to encourage an undertaking of this kind, but let us encourage any gentleman to come here and take down the debates. Last year they were taken down very accurately and dispersed throughout the Union.

By passing this resolution you will destroy the use of the privilege to any other than the person favored by this House. Why give one a privilege more than another? He observed, it had been common to give gentlemen the privilege to come into the House and take down the debates, which had been, last year, delivered time enough to give satisfaction to the members.

Mr. Thatcher said, he should wish for information from the committee how many persons there were to publish debates, as he understood there were several, and the members were to supply themselves from whom they pleased. He should likewise wish for information, how many each member was to have to amount to the value of $1,600.

Mr. W. Smith said, there had been petitions received from only two persons—Thomas Lloyd and Thomas Carpenter. They intended, each of them, to publish the debates. There might be others; he knew not. There was no intention of giving any one a preference—gentlemen could subscribe for that they approved of most. At the calculation of Mr. Lloyd the members would have five copies each for the $1,600.

Mr. W. Lyman said, the question was, whether the House would incur the expense of $1,600 to supply the members with copies or not? He thought there was no need of the expense. If the House do not think proper to furnish the members, they can supply themselves. A publication of them is going on at present, and many gentlemen had subscribed to it already.

Mr. Dearborn did not think that $1,600 thus laid out would be expended to the best possible advantage. From the number of persons which we see here daily taking down debates, he thought we might expect to see a good report of the occurrences in the House. There was a book going about for subscriptions, which appeared to be well encouraged; he saw many of the members' names in it. He thought that, by a plan like that, the reports may be as accurately taken as we may have any reason to expect if the House incurs this expense.

Mr. Nicholas observed, that members were now served with three newspapers. He thought to vote for this resolution on account of obtaining a more full and complete report than was to be had in the newspapers; thus it would supersede the necessity of taking so many papers. He thought this plan more useful to the members, and generally of more advantage to their constituents, as they could disperse those debates where otherwise they would not be seen.

Mr. Thatcher said, if the object of the motion was to supersede the receiving of newspapers, he certainly should vote against it. He did not consider the main reason why members were served with the newspapers was, that they may obtain the debates. No. He thought it more important, in their stations, that they should know the occurrences of the day from the various parts of the United States as well as from foreign nations. Though he might favor an undertaking of this kind, yet he would give preference to a newspaper, if they were to have the one without the other.

Mr. Heath did not wish that the members, being furnished with debates agreeably to the motion, should supersede the receiving of newspapers, yet he should vote for it. Gentlemen had said the debates were taken more correctly last session than before, yet he had heard a whisper which was going from North to South, that our debates are not represented impartially. He wished the House and the people to be furnished with a true report; such a thing would be very useful: however, he did not wish to encourage a monopoly to those two persons. No. He would wish to give an equal chance to all who choose to come and take them. Shall we repress truth? I hope not; but disseminate it as much as possible. Last session, when I was, under the act of God's providence, prevented from attending the House, a member sent for a gentleman from Virginia, who was to act as stenographer, with whom the House and a printer in this city were to combine. Warm debates ensued on the propriety of the measure, and the gentleman returned home after the motion was negatived. I hope gentlemen will not grudge 1,600 dollars towards the support of truth. What we see now in the newspapers is taken from the memory, and not by a stenographer. The people will thank you that you have taken means to investigate truth. If any gentleman can point out a better mode to obtain this object, I hope he will do it that it may be adopted; till then I shall support the resolution.

Mr. Sherburne did not think, with the gentleman last up, that the interest of the country was concerned; the only thing they were concerned in was the payment of the money. The printing of this work did not depend on the motion of this House. Whether the House adopt it or not, the book will be published. It is a matter of private interest; a speculation in the adventurer, like other publications. The question, he conceived, meant only this: Should the members be supplied with these pamphlets at the expense of the public, or should they put their hands in their own pockets and pay for them individually? He thought the House had no greater reasons to supply the members with this work than other publications; they might as well be furnished with the works of Peter Porcupine, or the Rights of Man, at the public expense.

Mr. W. Smith said, the gentleman was mistaken with respect to the work going on, whether supported by the House or not. It was true as it respected the work proposed by Mr. Carpenter; but, with respect to Mr. Lloyd, he declared he could not undertake it, except the House would subscribe for five copies for each member.

Mr. Swanwick considered the question to be to this effect: whether the debates be under the sanction of the House or not? A gentleman had said, it will be a great service to the public to have a correct statement of the debates. I think the most likely way to obtain it correctly is to let it rest on the footing of private industry. We have a work, entitled The Senator, in circulation. I have no doubt but the publisher will find good account in the undertaking. Why should the House trouble itself to sanction any particular work? Gentlemen would then have enough to do every morning in putting the debates to rights before they were published, as they would be pledged to the accuracy of the reports. I never heard that, in the British House of Commons or Lords, such a motion was ever made, nor have I ever heard of such in any other country; then why should we give our sanction and incur a responsibility for the accuracy of it. He said he should vote against the motion, but would encourage such a work while it rested on the footing of private adventure.

Mr. Thatcher said, he differed much from the gentleman last up, as it respected the responsibility of the House on such a publication. He thought it might as well be said, that because there had been a resolution for the Clerk to furnish the members of this House with three newspapers, the House was responsible for the truth of what those newspapers contained; if it was so, he should erase his name from his supply of them, as he thought, in general, they contained more lies than truth. Two considerations might recommend the resolution. It would encourage the undertaking, and also add to the stock of public information: on either of these, he would give it his assent. Soon after he came into the city, a paper was handed him with proposals for a publication of this kind (The Senator). He, with pleasure, subscribed to its support; as to general information, that was given already by newspapers, and though each member was to be supplied with five copies, yet very few would fall into hands where the newspapers did not reach. The work would go forward at any rate. If he thought the work depended on the motion, he should rejoice to give his vote toward its aid. On the question being put, only nineteen gentlemen voted in favor of the resolution; it was therefore negatived.

The committee then rose, and the House took up the resolution.

Mr. Thatcher observed, the question was put while he was inattentive: he wished it to lie over till to-morrow.

Mr. Giles wished to indulge the gentleman in his desire.

Mr. Thatcher then moved for the vote of the House, whether the report of the Committee of the Whole be postponed. Twenty-four members only appearing for the postponement, it was negatived.

The question was then put, whether the House agreed to the report of the Committee of the Whole and disagreed with the report of the select committee; which appeared in the affirmative. The motion was therefore lost.

Address to the President.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the Answer to the President's Address; when the Answer reported by the select committee was read by the Clerk, and then in paragraphs by the Chairman, which is as follows:

Sir: The House of Representatives have attended to your communication respecting the state of our country, with all the sensibility that the contemplation of the subject and a sense of duty can inspire.

We are gratified by the information that measures calculated to ensure a continuance of the friendship of the Indians, and to maintain the tranquillity of the interior frontier, have been adopted; and we indulge the hope that these, by impressing the Indian tribes with more correct conceptions of the justice, as well as power of the United States, will be attended with success.

While we notice, with satisfaction, the steps that you have taken in pursuance of the late treaties with several foreign nations, the liberation of our citizens who were prisoners at Algiers is a subject of peculiar felicitation. We shall cheerfully co-operate in any further measures that shall appear, on consideration, to be requisite.

We have ever concurred with you in the most sincere and uniform disposition to preserve our neutral relations inviolate; and it is, of course, with anxiety and deep regret we hear that any interruption of our harmony with the French Republic has occurred; for we feel with you and with our constituents the cordial and unabated wish to maintain a perfectly friendly understanding with that nation. Your endeavors to fulfil that wish, (and by all honorable means to preserve peace, and to restore that harmony and affection which have heretofore so happily subsisted between the French Republic and the United States,) cannot fail, therefore, to interest our attention. And while we participate in the full reliance you have expressed on the patriotism, self-respect, and fortitude of our countrymen, we cherish the pleasing hope that a mutual spirit of justice and moderation on the part of the Republic will ensure the success of your perseverance.

The various subjects of your communication will, respectively, meet with the attention that is due to their importance.

When we advert to the internal situation of the United States, we deem it equally natural and becoming to compare the tranquil prosperity of the citizens with the period immediately antecedent to the operation of the Government, and to contrast it with the calamities in which the state of war still involves several of the European nations, as the reflections deduced from both tend to justify, as well as to excite, a warmer admiration of our free constitution, and to exalt our minds to a more fervent and grateful sense of piety towards Almighty God for the beneficence of His providence, by which its administration has been hitherto so remarkably distinguished.

And while we entertain a grateful conviction that your wise, firm, and patriotic Administration has been signally conducive to the success of the present form of Government, we cannot forbear to express the deep sensations of regret with which we contemplate your intended retirement from office.

As no other suitable occasion may occur, we cannot suffer the present to pass without attempting to disclose some of the emotions which it cannot fail to awaken.

The gratitude and admiration of your countrymen are still drawn to the recollection of those resplendent virtues and talents which were so eminently instrumental to the achievement of the Revolution, and of which that glorious event will ever be the memorial. Your obedience to the voice of duty and your country, when you quitted reluctantly a second time the retreat you had chosen, and first accepted the Presidency, afforded a new proof of the devotedness of your zeal in its service, and an earnest of the patriotism and success which have characterized your Administration. As the grateful confidence of the citizens in the virtues of their Chief Magistrate has essentially contributed to that success, we persuade ourselves that the millions whom we represent participate with us in the anxious solicitude of the present occasion.

Yet we cannot be unmindful that your moderation and magnanimity, twice displayed by retiring from your exalted stations, afford examples no less rare and instructive to mankind than valuable to a Republic.

Although we are sensible that this event, of itself, completes the lustre of a character already conspicuously unrivalled by the coincidence of virtue, talents, success, and public estimation, yet we conceive that we owe it to you, sir, and still more emphatically to ourselves and to our nation (of the language of whose hearts we presume to think ourselves at this moment the faithful interpreters) to express the sentiments with which it is contemplated.

The spectacle of a whole nation, the freest and most enlightened in the world, offering by its Representatives the tribute of unfeigned approbation to its first citizen, however novel and interesting it may be, derives all its lustre—a lustre which accident or enthusiasm could not bestow, and which adulation would tarnish—from the transcendent merit of which it is the voluntary testimony.

May you long enjoy that liberty which is so dear to you, and to which your name will ever be so dear. May your own virtues and a nation's prayers obtain the happiest sunshine for the decline of your days and the choicest of future blessings. For your country's sake—for the sake of Republican liberty—it is our earnest wish that your example may be the guide of your successors; and thus, after being the ornament and safeguard of the present age, become the patrimony of our descendants.

Mr. Venable observed, on a paragraph wherein it speaks of the "tranquillity of the interior frontier," he did not know what was the meaning of the expression: he moved to insert "Western frontier" in its stead.

Mr. Ames observed that the words of the report are in the President's Speech; however, he thought the amendment a good one. It then passed.

In the fourth paragraph are these words: "Your endeavors to fulfil that wish cannot fail, therefore, to interest our attention." At the word "wish," Mr. Giles proposed to insert these words: "and by all honorable means to preserve peace, and restore that harmony and affection which have heretofore so happily subsisted between the French Republic and this country;" and strike out the words that follow "wish" in that paragraph. He said, his reasons for moving this amendment were to avoid its consequences. He really wished the report entirely recommitted, as there were many objectionable parts in it. He had been very seriously impressed with the consequences that would result from a war with the French Republic. When I reflect, said Mr. G., on the calamities of war in general, I shudder at the thought; but, to conceive of the danger of a French war in particular, it cuts me still closer. When I think what many gentlemen in mercantile situations now feel, and the dreadful stop put to commerce, I feel the most sincere desire to cultivate harmony and good understanding. I see redoubled motives to show the world that we are in favor of a preservation of peace and harmony.

Mr. W. Smith said, he should not object to the amendment; but he thought it only an amplification of a sentiment just before expressed. He did not see any advantage in the sentiment as dilated, nor could he see any injury which could accrue from it. He hoped every gentleman in the House wished as sincerely for the preservation of peace as that gentleman did.

Mr. Ames wished to know of the gentleman from Virginia, whether he meant to strike out the latter part of this paragraph; if he did, he would object to it.

Mr. Giles said, he did not mean to strike out any more of this paragraph.

Mr. Ames wished it not to be struck out. By the amendment to strike out, we show the dependence we place on the power and protection of the French. While we declare ourselves weak by the act, we lose the recourse to our own patriotism, and fly, acknowledging an offence never committed, to the French for peace. He hoped the gentleman would be candid upon this occasion.

Mr. Giles said, he only wished this House to express their most sincere and unequivocal desire in favor of peace, and not merely to leave it to the President. He said, he had spoken upon this occasion as he always had done on this floor. He always had, and he hoped always should state his opinions upon every subject with plainness and candor.

The amendment passed unanimously.

Mr. Giles then proposed an amendment to the latter part of the same paragraph which would make it read thus: "We cherish the pleasing hope that a spirit of mutual justice and moderation will ensure the success of your perseverance." The amendment was to insert the word "mutual." He thought we ought to display a spirit of justice and moderation as well as the French. This amendment, he thought, would soften the expression, and, acting with that spirit of justice and moderation, accomplish a reconciliation. The amendment was adopted.

On the Chairman's reading the last paragraph except one in the report, which reads thus: "The spectacle of a whole nation, the freest and most enlightened in the world," Mr. Parker moved to strike out the words in italic. Although, said he, I wish to believe that we are the freest people, and the most enlightened people in the world, it is enough that we think ourselves so; it is not becoming in us to make the declaration to the world; and if we are not so, it is still worse for us to suppose ourselves what we are not.

Mr. Harper said he had a motion of amendment in his hand which would supersede the necessity of the last made, which, if in order, he would propose: it was to insert words more simple. He thought the more simple, the more agreeable to the public ear. His amendment, he thought, would add to the elegance and conciseness of the expression. He did not disapprove of the Address as it now stood, but he thought it might be amended. This, he said, would add to the dignity, as well as to the simplicity of the expression. He thought it would be improper to give too much scope to feeling: amplitude of expression frequently weakens an idea.

Mr. Giles said he saw many objectionable parts in the amendments proposed by the gentleman just sat down. He wished to strike out two paragraphs more than Mr. Harper had proposed; indeed, he wished the whole to be recommitted, that it might be formed more congenial to the wishes of the House in general, and not less agreeable to the person to be addressed.

Mr. Smith observed, that as the answer had been read by paragraphs nearly to the close, he thought it very much out of order to return to parts so distant.

The Chairman said that no paragraph on which an amendment had been made could be returned to; but where no amendment had been made, it was quite consistent with order to propose any one gentlemen may think proper.

Mr. W. Smith opposed striking out any paragraph. It was, he said, the last occasion we should have to address that great man, who had done so much service to his country. The warmth of expression in the answer was only an evidence of the gratitude of this House for his character. When we reflect on the glowing language used at the time when he accepted of the office of President, and at his re-election to that office, why, asked he, ought not the language of this House to be as full of respect and gratitude now as then? particularly when we consider the addresses now flowing in from all parts of the country. I object to the manner of gentlemen's amendments as proposed, to strike out all in a mass. If the sentiments were agreeable to the minds of the House, why waste our time to alter mere expressions while the sentiment is preserved? No doubt every gentleman's manner of expression differed, while their general ideas might be the same. He hoped mere form of expression would not cause its recommitment.

Mr. Giles did not object to a respectful and complimentary Address being sent to the President, yet he thought we ought not to carry our expressions out of the bounds of moderation; he hoped we should adhere to truth. He objected to some of the expressions in those paragraphs, for which reason he moved to have the paragraphs struck out, in order to be amended by the committee. He wished to act as respectful to the President as any gentleman, but he observed many parts of the Address which were objectionable. It is unnatural and unbecoming in us to exult in our superior happiness, light, or wisdom. It is not at all necessary that we should exult in our advantages, and thus reflect on the unhappy situation of nations in their troubles; it is insulting to them. If we are thus happy it is well for us; it is necessary that we should enjoy our happiness, but not boast of it to all the world, and insult their unhappy situation.

As to those parts of the Address which speak of the wisdom and firmness of the President, he must object to them. On reflection, he could see a want of wisdom and firmness in the Administration for the last six years. I may be singular in my ideas, said he, but I believe our Administration has been neither wise nor firm. I believe, sir, a want of wisdom and firmness has brought this country into the present alarming situation. If after such a view of the Administration, I was to come into this House and show the contrary by a quiet acquiescence, gentlemen would think me a very inconsistent character. If we take a view of our foreign relations, we shall see no reason to exult in the wisdom or firmness of our Administration. He thought nothing so much as a want of that wisdom and firmness had brought us to the critical situation in which we now stand.

If it had been the will of gentlemen to have been satisfied with placing the President in the highest possible point of respect amongst men, the vote of the House would have been unanimous, but the proposal of such adulation could never expect success. If we take a view into our internal situation, and behold the ruined state of public and private credit, less now than perhaps at any former period however, he never could recollect it so deranged. If we survey this city, what a shameful scene it alone exhibits, owing, as he supposed, to the immense quantity of paper issued. Surely this could afford no ground for admiration of the Administration that caused it.

I must acknowledge, said Mr. Giles, that I am one of those who do not think so much of the President as some others do. When the President retires from his present station, I wish him to enjoy all possible happiness. I wish him to retire, and that this was the moment of his retirement. He thought the Government of the United States could go on very well without him; and he thought he would enjoy more happiness in his retirement than he possibly could in his present situation. What calamities would attend the United States, and how short the duration of its Independence, if one man alone can be found to fill that capacity! He thought there were thousands of citizens in the United States able to fill that high office, and he doubted not that many may be found whose talents would enable them to fill it with credit and advantage. Although much had been said, and that by many people, about his intended retirement, yet he must acknowledge he felt no uncomfortable sensations about it; he must express his own feelings, he was perfectly easy in prospect of the event. He wished the President as much happiness as any man. He declared he did not regret his retreat; he wished him quietly at his seat at Mount Vernon; he thought he would enjoy more happiness there than in public life. It will be very extraordinary if gentlemen, whose names in the yeas and nays are found in opposition to certain prominent measures of the Administration, should come forward and approve those measures: this we could not expect. He retained an opinion he had always seen reason to support, and no influence under Heaven should prevent him expressing his established sentiments; and he thought the same opinions would soon meet general concurrence. He hoped gentlemen would compliment the President privately, as individuals; at the same time, he hoped such adulation would never pervade that House.

I must make some observation, said Mr. G., on the last paragraph but one, where we call ourselves "the freest and most enlightened nation in the world:" indeed, the whole of that paragraph is objectionable; I disapprove the whole of it. If I am free, if I am happy, if I am enlightened more than others, I wish not to proclaim it on the house top; if we are free, it is not prudent to declare it; if enlightened, it is not our duty in this House to trumpet it to the world; it is no Legislative concern. If gentlemen will examine the paragraph, [referring to that contained in the parenthesis,] it seems to prove that the gentleman who drew it up was going into the field of adulation; which would tarnish a private character. I do think this kind of affection the President gains nothing from. The many long Addresses we hear of, add nothing to the lustre of his character. In the honor we may attempt to give to others we may hurt ourselves. This may prove a self-destroyer; by relying too much on administration, we may rely too little on our own strength.

Mr. Sitgreaves said, that whatever division of the question gentlemen would propose, was indifferent to him; the words of the answer were perfectly congenial with his wishes, and he was prepared to give his opposition to any of the amendments proposed. On mature deliberation, there was not a sentiment in the report but he highly approved. He could not see any thing unnatural or unbecoming in drawing just comparisons of our situation with that of our neighbors; this is the only way we can form a just view of our own happiness. It is a very necessary way to come to a right knowledge of our own situation by comparing it with that of other nations. He would not reproach another people because they are not so happy as we are; but he thought drawing simple comparisons in the way of the report was no reproach. He was not against bringing the comparison down to private life, as the gentleman from Virginia had done; he should think it wrong in a man to exult over his neighbor who was distressed or ignorant, because himself was wealthy or wise. Yet he saw no impropriety in his own family of speaking of their happiness and advantages, compared with that of others; it would awaken in them a grateful sense of their superior enjoyments, while it pointed out the faults and follies of others, only in order that those he had the care of may learn to avoid them: thus while our happiness is pointed out, the miseries of nations involved in distress are delineated to serve as beacons for the United States to steer clear of. He did not, with the gentleman from Virginia, in any degree, doubt of the wisdom or firmness of the Administration of America. In the language of the Address, he entertained a very high opinion of it, "a grateful conviction that the wise, firm, and patriotic Administration of the President had been signally conducive to the success of the present form of Government." Such language as this is the only reward which can be given by a grateful people for labors so eminently useful as those of the President had been. This was not his sentiment merely, it was the sentiment of the people of America. Every public body were conveying their sentiments of gratitude throughout the whole extent of the Union. Why then should this House affect a singularity, when our silence on these points would only convey reproach instead of respect. If these sentiments were true, why not express them? But if, on the contrary, what the gentleman asserted, that the Administration of the President had been neither wise, firm, nor patriotic, then he would concur with the motion for striking out; but he was not convinced of the truth of this assertion; and while this is not proved, he should vote against the motion.

Mr. Sitgreaves said, he could not agree with the motion of the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. Harper,) because his motion was for substituting other words in the place of those in the report, without any reason whatever. If the gentleman, by altering the phraseology, can make the sentiment any better, by all means let it be done: but if the sentiment is not to be changed, why alter it merely to substitute other words? On the whole, Mr. S. observed, that he did not see the answer could in any degree be reproached. There are no sentiments in it but what are justifiable on the ground of truth; they are free from adulation. It is such an expression of national regret and gratitude as the circumstance calls for; a regret at the retirement of a faithful and patriotic Chief Magistrate from office. A regret and gratitude which he believed to be the sentiment of Americans.

Mr. Swanwick began by observing that there were points in the Address in which all gentlemen seemed to agree, while on other parts they cannot agree. We all agree in our desire to pay the President every possible mark of respect; but we very materially disagree wherein a comparison is drawn between this and foreign nations. If we are happy and other nations are not so, it is but well for us; but he thought it would be much more prudent in us to let other nations discover it, and not make a boast of it ourselves. It is very likely that those nations whom we commiserate may think themselves as happy as we are: they may feel offended to hear of our comparisons. If we refer to the British Chancellor of the Exchequer in his speeches, he would tell us that is the happiest and most prosperous nation upon earth. How then can we commiserate with it as an unfortunate country? If, again, we look to France, that country which we have pointed out as full of wretchedness and distress, yet we hear them boast of their superiority of light and freedom, and we have reason to believe not without foundation. A gentleman had talked about the flourishing state of our agriculture, and asserted that our late commercial calamities were not proofs of our want of prosperity, which the gentleman compared to specks in the sun. That gentleman speaks as though he lived at a distance. Has he heard of no commercial distresses, when violations so unprecedented have of late occurred? One merchant has to look for his property at Halifax, another at Bermuda, another at Cape Françoise, another at Gonaives, &c.; all agree that they have suffered, and that by the war. These are distresses gentlemen would not like to feel themselves. Mr. S. said he had felt for these occurrences. We are not exempt from troubles: probably we may have suffered as much as other nations who are involved in the war. It is a question whether France has been distressed at all by the war. She has collected gold and silver in immense quantities by her conquests, together with the most valuable stores of the productions of the arts; as statues, paintings, and manuscripts of inestimable worth; and at sea has taken far more in value than she has lost: besides, her armies are subsisting on the requisitions her victories obtain. And has England gained nothing by the war? If we hearken to Mr. Pitt, we may believe they are very great gainers. Surely the islands in the West and East Indies, Ceylon, and the Cape of Good Hope, the key to the East Indies, are advantages gained; besides the quantity of shipping taken from our merchants. Mr. S. thought if we were to compare, we should find those nations had gained by the war, while we had lost; and of course there was no reason for us to boast of our advantages.

Mr. W. Smith next rose, and observed that gentlemen wished to compliment the President, but took away every point on which encomium could be grounded. One denies the prosperity of the country, another the free and enlightened state of the country, and another refuses the President the epithet of wise and patriotic.

Mr. Giles here rose to explain. If he was meant, he must think the gentleman was wrong in his application. He said he had never harbored a suspicion of the good intentions of the President, nor did he deny his patriotism; but the wisdom and firmness of his Administration he had doubted. He thought him a good meaning man, but often misled.

Mr. Smith again rose, and said, he must confess himself at a loss for that refinement to discover between the wisdom and patriotism of the President, and that of his Administration. It was moved to strike out this acknowledgment of wisdom and firmness. What were we to substitute as complimentary to him in its place? The first paragraph proposed to be struck out related to our speaking of the tranquillity of this country, compared to nations involved in war. Could this give offence, because we feel pleasure in being at peace? It was only congratulating our own constituents on the happiness we enjoy. To appreciate the value of peace, it was necessary to compare it with a state of war. It was the wisdom of this country to keep from war, and other nations hold it up as exemplary in us. The gentleman himself has declared his wish for the preservation of peace; and though he admires it, and nations admire it in us, yet we are not to compare our state with nations involved in the calamities of war, in order to estimate our enjoyments. The words of this Address are not a communication to a foreign minister, it is a congratulation to our own Chief Magistrate of the blessings he, in common with us, enjoys. Mr. S. hoped the words would not be struck out.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker), said, that he did not rise to accept the challenge given by the gentleman who spoke last from South Carolina, and to point out a nation more free and enlightened than ours; nor did he mean to contest the fact of ours being the freest and most enlightened in the world, as declared in the reported Address, but he was nevertheless of opinion that it did not become them to make that declaration, and thus to extol themselves by a comparison with, and at the expense of all others. Although those words were in his view objectionable, he was far from assenting to the motion for striking out the seven or eight last clauses of the Address. The question of order having been decided, Mr. D. said he would remind the committee, that if they wished to retain, or even to amend, any section or sentence of all that was proposed to be struck out, they ought to give their negatives to this motion, as the only means of accomplishing their purpose. It was sufficient, therefore, for those who were opposed to the question for striking out the whole, to show that any part included within it ought to be preserved. Not unnecessarily to waste time, by lengthening the debate, he would take the clause first in order, and confine his remarks to that alone. This part of the Address had certainly not been read, or had been misunderstood and misrepresented by the member from Pennsylvania.

Mr. Ames said, if gentlemen meant to agree to strike out the whole as proposed, in order to adopt those words substituted by the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Harper), he must observe that he thought this would be as far from giving satisfaction to others, who, it appeared, wanted no substitute. He, therefore, hoped that kind of influence would not prevail on this occasion. The gentleman who made the motion did it to accommodate matters, and not because he himself objected to the answer reported.

It is well known that a committee of five members, opposite in sentiment, was appointed to prepare a respectful Address in answer to the President's Speech. [Here the original instructions were read.] As it was the duty of the committee to prepare a respectful Address, it cannot be matter of surprise, although it may of disapprobation with some, that the committee did their duty, and have taken notice of the several matters recommended to the House in that Speech. Respecting the particular notice they have taken, it might have been thought that some difficulty would occur. He said he need not observe, that the committee had reason to imagine that the form of the report would be agreeable to the House, as they were unanimous; although there had been in the wording some little difference of opinion, yet all agreed substantially in the Address, from a conviction of the delicacy of the subject. For that reason, if that only, unless the sentiments in the report of the Address should be found inconsistent with truth, he hoped no substitute of a form of words merely would prevail, as it would no longer be that agreed to in the committee, nor could come under their consideration equal to the printed report. He therefore trusted that when the committee came to the question, whether to strike out or not, gentlemen would be guided by no other motive to vote for striking out, than an impropriety in the sentiments through an evident want of truth in them; and if such cannot be discovered, why strike out the expressions?

It had been observed by some gentleman, that the cry of foreign influence is in the country. He did not see such a thing exist. He would not be rudely explicit as to the foundation there was for such a cry; but when it was once raised, the people would judge whether it was fact or not. He could not tell how this influence was produced, but the world would draw a view how far we were under foreign influence. Mr. A. here alluded to the influence which foreign agents wished to have over the minds of the people of this country, in order to support a factious spirit, probably to the appeal lately made to the people. He also alluded to a circumstance when the Imperial Envoy, M. Palm, in 1727, at London, published a rescript, complaining of the conduct of that Court; the spirit of the nation rose, and discord was sown. In consequence of which the Parliament petitioned the King to send the Envoy out of the country for meddling with the concerns of their nation. That is the nation which we call corrupted. Yet a similar affair has occurred here, and it is not to be reprobated; we are not to complain of it, nor even hear it, according to this doctrine. Independence is afraid of injuries, and almost of insults. We must forbear to exult in our peace, our light, our freedom, lest we should give offence to other nations who are not so. This may be the high tone of independence in the views of some people, but I must confess it is not so in mine; but it is probable those people may be wiser than I am, and their views extend farther. Foreign influence exists, and is disgraceful indeed, when we dare admire our own constitution, nor adore God for giving us to feel its happy effects. He thought, respecting the recent complaints of the French Minister, that there was not even a pretext for the accusation.

It had been observed by a gentleman, that the President, no doubt, is a very honest man, and a patriot, but he did not think him a wise man.

Mr. Giles here rose to explain. He said that, in his assertions, he meant not to reflect on his private character. He referred to his Administration. No doubt but the gentleman possessed both.

Mr. Ames said, he considered well what the gentleman had said. As a private man, his integrity and goodness cannot be doubted; but in his Administration—here we are to stop short; not a word about that; it won't bear looking into; it has been neither firm nor wise. If the House, in their Address to him, were to say, we think you a very honest, well-designing man, but you have been led astray, sometimes to act treacherously, and even dishonest in your Administration—we think you a peaceful man, and though much iniquity may have been practised in your Government, yet we think you are not in fault; on the whole, sir, we wish you snugly in Virginia. Such sentiments as these I do not like. Is this an Address or an insult? Is this the mark of respect we ought to show to the first man in the nation? Mr. A. observed, that he did not agree with the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Smith), who said, that the President would carry daggers in his heart with him into his retreat from public life, if we refuse him our testimony of gratitude. No, he bears in his breast a testimony of his purity of motive; a conscious rectitude, while in public life, which daggers could not pierce. He would retire with a good conscience; perhaps it would be said this was adulation, but let it be remembered this was truth; this was not flattery; let gentlemen deny this; let them prove that this is not the will of their constituents. The country would judge our opinions when we come to give our yeas or nays; then the real friends of that man would be known.

The gentleman wishes him back to Virginia, was glad he designed to go; he did not regret his resignation. His name will appear in that opinion. The whole of the President's life would stamp his character. His country, and the admiring world knew it; and history keeps his fame, and will continue to keep it. We may be singular in our opinions of him, but that will not make his character with the world the less illustrious. We now are to accept of his resignation without a tribute of respect. We are not to speak of him as either wise or firm. We can only say he is an honest man: this would scarcely be singular; many a man is honest without any other good qualifications. What circle would gentlemen fix the committee in to amend this Address, if they are not to give scope to these sentiments? Better appoint no committee at all. If we address the President at all, I hope it will be respectfully, for loth respect is insult in disguise. I hope we shall not alter the original draft of the Address, but agree according to our former intentions to present a respectful and cordial Address.

Mr. Swanwick rose to explain to those parts of the observations of some gentlemen who had lately spoken (Mr. Dayton and Mr. Ames) on that part of the paragraph, which speaks of our gratitude to Providence. He should be sorry if such an idea was entertained from any thing he had observed. It was not that part of the paragraph, but the part where we are contrasted with other nations, that he objected to principally. Although, he must observe, it was not spoken in a style common to devotion, to tell Providence how wise and enlightened we were. It does not boast of our philanthropy, to say how much wiser and better we are than other nations. He thought the gentleman's reference to a clergyman very curious. It would not be right in us to say to God, we thank thee, we are wiser or more enlightened than others! If we are so, let us rejoice in it, and not offend others by our boasting. Gentlemen say, we are happier than though we were at war; are we at peace? No: we are involved in the worst of wars. Witness our spoliations from Algerine, English, and French cruisers, from some of which he himself had suffered materially. The President does not think we are at peace: he recommends a navy as the only efficient security to our commerce. How could that little island (England) command such influence in foreign dominions? It is by her navy. We cannot boast of such power. While we think ourselves much happier and stronger than others, others think us more diminutive; let us not boast. He feared that the revenues of this country would suffer materially through the great stagnation of commerce. He did not think they would be as productive as formerly. He feared it was too generally known, that this was not a time of very great prosperity. As he did not, for one, feel the prosperous situation of the country, he could not consent to violate his feelings by speaking contrary to them. The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Ames) last session, spoke with great eloquence and at great length of the horror of war; which he considered as inevitable if the British Treaty (then the subject of debate) was not carried into effect.

Mr. Christie moved for the committee to rise. The House divided on the motion; 43 members appeared against it, 31 only in favor of it. It was lost.

Mr. Giles rose and observed that he should not have troubled the committee with any further observations, but his ideas had been misrepresented; although he endeavored to prevent a possibility of misconstruction, yet it seems he had not been able to accomplish his wish. It was not wonderful, he said, that the President's popularity should be introduced into the debate when it had been so long in question. It had been too commonly done, he thought, but he hoped the influence of it would not be very great. As to the unanimity of the committee who drew up the Address, he cared very little about it; he should be extremely sorry to see it have any influence on the members of that House.

Gentlemen have said, that if we take out the expressions of our sense of the wisdom and firmness of the Administration of the President, they cannot find any ground on which to compliment him; if so, he for one would not be willing to present an Address at all. But his views were quite different; he thought it could be effectually done without adulation. He could not consent to acknowledge the wisdom and firmness of his Administration. Gentlemen had inquired for instances in evidence of this assertion. He said, that without seeking for more instances, that of the British Treaty was a standing proof in support of the assertion. Though many gentlemen believe nothing has been done injurious to the United States through that treaty, yet I acknowledge I see very great danger; we are not now in that state of security which could be wished. It is well known that the operation of the British Treaty is the groundwork of all the recent complaints of the French Government. It may be said that many of the complaints of the French Minister originated from actions previous to the British Treaty. It may be so, but that was the means of calling forth complaints which, perhaps, would otherwise never have been made; else why did not this calamity befall us before? It certainly may be ascribed to that instrument. Gentlemen may talk as they please about the law of nations; but the law of nations is, that a neutral nation shall not do any thing to benefit one belligerent power to the injury of another. Mr. G. said, he thought matters carried a serious aspect, and he very much disapproved of the declaration of a gentleman (Mr. Ames) who says, now is the time of danger; we are on the eve of a war with France, now let us boldly assert our rights. At the time the British Treaty was debating on, that gentleman was overcome with the prospect of a war; he then depicted it in horrible forms; but now how different his language! He now seems not afraid to embrace all its horrors, and was zealously calling out for the nation to support the Administration. Why did we not hear this when the British spoliated on our commerce! If we are upon the eve of a war with France, as the gentleman supposes, it will be disastrous to this country; we have reason to deplore it; it will be calamitous indeed. France has more power to injure this country than any nation besides, and none we can injure less. What an influence can she command over our commerce? She can exclude us from our own ports; spoil our trade with Great Britain, and from her own extensive country; she can shut us out from the East Indies, as well as the West Indies; ruin our trade in the Mediterranean, which, owing to the late conquests of the French, may be rendered very flourishing and important to us; and by her alliance, offensive and defensive, with Spain, we not only have another enemy, but lose our late advantages in the navigation of the Mississippi. Suppose, by the influence of her politics, the doctrine of liberty and equality were to be preached on the other side of the Alleghany mountains, what numerous enemies may they breed in our own country? France can wound us most, and we have the least reason to provoke her. It would be policy in her to go to war with us; by ruining our trade with England, she could give a violent wound to her enemy; yet that gentleman says, now is the time to assert our rights, now we are in danger. The war-whoop and the hatchet, of which the gentleman spoke so feelingly last session, is no longer in his thoughts. If this was the only reason he had, it would be enough to influence his vote against an acknowledgment of the wisdom and firmness that has dictated our Administration.

Mr. Williams rose and said, he was sorry to trouble the committee at such a late hour, but he could not be satisfied with giving a silent vote on an occasion when the President's popularity was doubted. He thought members ought to speak the will of the people they represent. He could assert that it was not merely his own opinion he spoke, but that of his constituents, when he voted for the Address as reported. He was sorry to hear the gentleman last up speak in the style he had done, although he owned it was not altogether new to him. The gentleman wished the first clause to be struck out. Mr. W. thought it was the duty of every pious man to thank God for the benefits he enjoys. And shall not we, as a nation, thank him for keeping us from a state of war? Gentlemen's ideas were to strike the whole out in a mass; but he hoped they would not be gratified. Mr. W. said, he was very sorry to hear the gentleman speak against the wisdom and firmness of the President, which assertion seemed to have its foundation in the Treaty concluded with Great Britain. He would ask the gentleman whether that act of ours should have any influence on our situation with France? Wherein have we differed from the compact made with France by our treaty made with that country? We surely had a right to treat with Great Britain, else we could not be an independent nation; and France will not deny this. In 1778, the Ambassador of France informed the British Court that his nation had entered into a treaty with the United States, and at the same time informed them that great attention had been paid by the contracting parties not to stipulate any exclusive advantage in favor of the French nation, and that there was reserved, on the part of the United States, the liberty of treating with any nation whatsoever upon the same footing of equality and reciprocity. But the gentleman (Mr. Giles) says, we ought not to give an advantage to an enemy. Mr. W. said, that no advantage was given to Britain, but, on the contrary, the article complained of must be of advantage to France; it is an encouragement for American vessels to go to their ports; it insures them against loss, if they are interrupted in their voyage. It had been said that it would be to the interest of France to go to war with us; if they consider it so, all that gentleman can say will not prevent it. When we reflect on a Treaty entered into on this principle with Great Britain, should France complain?