Thursday, February 13.
Society of Harmony.
The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill received from the Senate, the object of which is to authorize the location of a quantity of land in the Indiana Territory by George Rapp and his associates, they paying two dollars therefor, and giving them a credit, without the payment of interest, for six years, when they are to pay one-fourth of the purchase money, and the residue in six annual payments, on condition that, agreeably to prescribed terms, the vine shall be cultivated.
Mr. McCreery stated that George Rapp and his associates, amounting to about 3,000 persons, were natives of the Electorate of Wirtemberg; that they were Lutherans, who had fled from oppression in that country; that they were mostly cultivators of the vine, and wished an extension of the usual time for paying for public lands, they not having the means of the common payment; they wished to live together, and to cultivate the vine for their principal support, for their prosperity, and for the good of the community, in introducing its culture into this country.
Mr. Ely observed that the bill appeared to give a preference in the sale of the public lands; that the bill was presented from the Senate without the documents or testimony which might justify this preference; he therefore moved that it should be committed to the Committee on Public Lands.
Mr. Gregg.—They obtain a whole township of the best land at only two dollars per acre, and it is proposed to extend to them an unusual indulgence in the time of payment. He would not agree to it.
Mr. Findlay spoke in favor of the bill.
Mr. Conrad.—The indulgence of time for payment is not unprecedented. He showed an act granting twelve years for payment where land was purchased for the same purpose, and that act does not bind the purchasers to plant the vine, whereas this does. It were better to make a present of the land than not have the settlement among us of such persons. If not thus sold, it is more than probable that the land will lie waste and unsold more than the six years.
Mr. Olin.—If we can be justified in a sale of this kind, why oblige foreigners instead of our own countrymen? We have citizens enough of our own who would be glad to purchase on such terms.
Mr. Sloan.—Though I drink no wine myself, I have no wish to prevent others, for I think it may often be serviceable. I consider the indulgence as to the time of payment in the light of an encouragement or bounty, that may prove useful to us as well as the applicants.
Mr. Smilie.—I cannot say with the gentleman from New Jersey that I drink no wine, for I certainly do when I can get it. I do not consider it as a valid objection that the petitioners are foreigners. I am myself a European, who have fled from oppression in the country where I was born. How great a part of Pennsylvania is settled by such characters!
Mr. McCreery.—The applicants are men of piety and industry. Let us give them a good chance, for our own sakes as well as theirs, to introduce the culture of the grape here.
Mr. Findlay.—If this indulgence be not given, the land will lie waste. We wish to populate the territory. Their settlement will enhance the value of the public lands around them.
Mr. Ely.—I am sorry my motion has occasioned so much debate. I was ignorant of the circumstances relating to this society, and to the character of it; my object was information, not an intention to defeat the bill. We deviate from the usual mode, which is to have the report of a committee in cases of this sort.
Mr. Gregg.—This bill very improperly authorizes a deviation from the established practice of selling public lands—it is a change of principle. I do not wish to see so great a body of foreigners settled together; we shall have a little Wirtemberg; we must legislate for them; they cannot speak our language; they cannot serve as jurymen, and from the information I have received, I am confident they will not succeed in cultivating the vine in that country.
Mr. Bedinger.—I am a shareholder in a vineyard in Kentucky, and our success has exceeded our most sanguine expectations.
Mr. Macon.—In order to try the sense of the committee, I move to strike out the words “George Rapp and his associates.” Why should we not grant bounties for raising wheat or corn as well as the vine? If wine can be made here to advantage, there is no need of the encouragement of this House. A few years since we raised no cotton, but the profit of this culture once known, it has become an article of vast exportation. What claim have these aliens over our own citizens? They have been oppressed; put your finger on any spot of Europe that is not under oppression. If you commence this new system, all the best sections of land will be taken up in this manner. Who will not purchase on such terms?
Mr. Lyon.—Lands not belonging to the public may be had for less than one dollar an acre in many places.
Mr. Olin.—We have men that can cultivate the vine as well as those foreigners. It is a plain, simple thing.
Mr. Jackson.—If disposed to grant favors, let us grant to those who have the greatest claim. There are many old soldiers of the Revolution, who would rejoice to purchase land on these terms. Why encourage the making of wines? They are luxuries, not necessaries. Lands on the Ohio are from six to eight dollars in many places; this bill gives the petitioners their choice of the best, and they pay no interest for their purchase, at two dollars.
Mr. Sloan.—This bill will enhance the value of lands adjoining. It will be a humane act.
Mr. Jackson.—I rise merely to state a fact I have just now learned. There are at this very time men waiting for the passage of this bill, who are ready to give six dollars per acre for much of the very land the bill contemplates.
Mr. Holland.—Some small tracts only may sell for six dollars. We bind the purchasers to plant the first year 9,000 plants, and 3,000 annually after.
Mr. Morrow, of Ohio.—I rise only to reply to the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Jackson.) I never seek for information in the lobby, nor the gallery, nor Pennsylvania avenue. The gentleman is misinformed.
Mr. Jackson.—My authority is an honorable member near me—an authority at least as respectable as any the gentleman from Ohio can have.
The question was taken—50 for striking out, 51 against it. The committee rose, and the House considered the bill.
Mr. Crowninshield.—There is no interest to be received. I have made a calculation that, considering the want of interest to the time of the last payment, we now get only ninety-seven cents per acre. I move to strike out two, and insert three dollars per acre.
The motion was lost—44 only for it.
Mr. Crowninshield.—There are in a section about 23,000 acres, making about 46,000 dollars. I move to insert six per cent. interest till paid.
Mr. Nicholson.—Public lands are sold without interest for a certain time. If the money be not punctually paid, I am willing the debt should be on interest after.
Mr. Jackson.—I move to postpone the consideration of the bill indefinitely.
The ayes and nays were called for, and taken on this motion—ayes 53, nays 59.
Mr. Crowninshield’s motion for the insertion of interest was lost—52 to 49.
Mr. D. R. Williams moved the insertion of two instead of six years for payment of the land. Motion lost—54 to 45. The bill passed to a third reading for to-morrow.