Tuesday, February 18.
Society of Harmony.
The House resumed the consideration of the bill sent from the Senate, entitled “An act to empower George Rapp and his associates, of the Society of Harmony, to purchase certain lands;” and a motion being made further to amend the said bill by inserting, at the end thereof, the words following:
“And interest, at the rate of six per cent, per annum, commencing from the end of the four years aforesaid, shall be charged on the whole of the six last payments, until the same shall be received into the public Treasury:”
The question was taken that the House do agree to the said amendment, and resolved in the affirmative—yeas 62, nays 44.
Ordered, That the said amendments, together with the bill, be read the third time to-day.
The said bill, together with the amendments thereto, was read the third time; and, on the question that the bill, as amended, do pass, it passed in the negative—yeas 46, nays 46.
Mr. Speaker declaring himself with the nays. And so the said bill was rejected.
Church in Georgetown.
Mr. Findlay called up the bill for incorporating the Presbyterian Society in Georgetown. The bill was long, and was read by sections. One section authorized a lottery for finishing the church.
Mr. Clark moved to strike out the section; you would not convert your church into a gambling house. I never considered that religion of the best kind which was supported by lotteries.
Mr. Sloan.—I am for striking out. I never will consent to an act authorizing public gambling.
Mr. Clark.—Corporations of all kinds, but more particularly ecclesiastical corporations, are objects of my particular hatred. Religion I do not consider of this world. I am no enemy to it, however; I adore it. To try the principle of the bill, I move to strike out the first section.
Mr. Southard.—I can see no possible objection to an act of incorporation in this as well as other cases. There are many advantages a society of this nature cannot enjoy without incorporation. Donations from the wealthy, who often bequeath sums for the benefit of religion, cannot be held without such incorporation.
Mr. Sloan.—We have no acts of incorporation in the society in which I was brought up, (the Quakers,) yet we find no difficulty in the management of our affairs—no difficulty in receiving gifts. I abhor all ecclesiastical corporations. Congress never has, and I hope never will, stain its pages with an act of this sort.
Mr. Smilie.—I hope the gentleman from New Jersey will not frighten himself with the echo of his own words. No evil can result from this act. The opinion of the Quakers is, that no money ought to assist them in their passage to heaven; others believe that money is employed to the best advantage in this way; hence the Quakers never pay those who preach for them, while almost all other classes of Christians do. The gentleman from New Jersey surely does not wish to forbid a clergyman’s payment. I hope that citizens of different persuasions may all have a full enjoyment of their modes of religious worship.
Mr. Elmer.—There never was a nation without religious establishments. All sects, except the Quakers, pay their preachers; and if the preachers among the Quakers have not a direct salary, they find means to obtain something of that kind indirectly, though not from direct funds. Considered in a moral, political, and religious view, these acts of incorporation are highly necessary and proper for the well-being of society.
Mr. Clark.—This is the first request that has been made to Congress for a religious incorporation; if we check it now, we may check what may hereafter prove an immense evil. It is from small beginnings that great disasters usually rise. Should this bill pass, I foresee what may perhaps in time come to pass. I can foresee the practice of pious frauds. The priests dressed in their canonicals, attending the rich man on his dying bed, and urging the repenting sinner to part with a portion of his wealth for the good of the church, and for the obtainment of a certain passport to heaven.
Mr. Findlay.—This is an accommodation Congress only can grant, and which is enjoyed in all the States.
Mr. Nicholson.—I never knew an application of this kind to be refused in the State, a part of which I have the honor to represent. In the Legislature of that State, half a dozen applications of this sort would have been granted in the time we have already spent in this unnecessary and shameful debate. Why should we refuse? If a society of Hindoos in the District should make such an application, I should not think of refusing them. If the dying rich man believes the bestowment of a part of his wealth for the benefit of religion will be a deed rendering him more acceptable to heaven, shall he be deprived of this right to give, because another thinks otherwise?
Mr. Rhea, of Tennessee, moved to postpone the consideration of the bill till the 1st of May.
Mr. Smilie spoke against postponement.
Mr. Quincy.—I had not intended to open my mouth on a subject that appeared to me so plain; where our duty was so apparent; but the debate has taken so strange a turn that I must make a few remarks. This is a mere civil affair—religion has nothing to do with it, so far as we are concerned in granting or refusing the application. I never knew an application of this kind to be refused—it is an application for the grant of certain powers to a certain number of persons; it is like an application for the incorporation of a bank, or any thing similar. Congress have only to inquire whether or not the ends are proper; whether the powers asked are or are not likely to be injurious. The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Clark) says, that incorporations of all kinds, particularly ecclesiastical, are objects of his great abhorrence. The objects of his abhorrence must then be very numerous, for they almost every where abound. In Massachusetts nothing can be more common. The incorporation of a religious society is not for the mere purpose of enabling such a society to receive the gifts that may be bequeathed them; the incorporation is for the purpose of enabling a society, or number of persons, to transact their business, to hold property, to sue and be sued, &c. Property they must hold, and, if not held as a corporate body, they must hold it as joint tenants—tenants in common—or they must have trustees to hold it for them, or a part must hold as trustees for the rest; and hence arise innumerable difficulties, litigations, and disagreements—difficulties that will not arise in corporate bodies. You have only to take care, when an act of incorporation is granted, that no powers be granted that may have an injurious effect.
Mr. Southard.—The incorporation of almost all societies is for the advantage of the public; the incorporation of religious bodies has ever been beneficial to morals and to society at large. It enables them to give and to receive justice; to sue and to be sued. The benefits of incorporation are innumerable; what were society without them? what are we but a corporate body?
The bill passed to a third reading by a large majority.