TESTIMONY OF BOB K. CARROLL RESUMED
The testimony of Bob K. Carroll was taken at 10 30 a.m., on April 9, 1984, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. Belin. Will you rise and be sworn, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Carroll. I do, sir.
Mr. Belin. Your name is?
Mr. Carroll. Bob K. Carroll.
Mr. Belin. You previously had your deposition taken here in Dallas by the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy, have you not?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin. Did Mr. Ball take that?
Mr. Carroll. It was Mr. Ball; yes, sir.
Mr. Belin. About what day was that?
Mr. Carroll. It was on a Friday, last, I believe. I don't know what day that would be.
Mr. Belin. Well, today is the following Thursday. At that time we didn't have some of the exhibits here, Officer Carroll, and since then they have come in. I now want to hand you one of the exhibits which has been marked as Commission Exhibit 143 and ask you to state what that is?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir. It is a .38 caliber revolver with a blue steel 2" barrel with wooden handle.
Mr. Belin. Have you ever seen this before?
Mr. Carroll. Yes; I have.
Mr. Belin. Where did you first see it?
Mr. Carroll. I first saw it in the Texas Theatre on November 22, 1963.
Mr. Belin. Would you just tell us about this weapon, when you first saw it?
Mr. Carroll. The first time I saw the weapon, it was pointed in my direction, and I reached and grabbed it and stuck it into my belt.
Mr. Belin. What did you happen to be doing at the time?
Mr. Carroll. At the time, I was assisting in the arrest of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. Belin. Do you know whose hand was on the gun when you saw it pointed in your direction?
Mr. Carroll. No; I do not.
Mr. Belin. You just jumped and grabbed it?
Mr. Carroll. I jumped and grabbed the gun; yes, sir.
Mr. Belin. Then what did you do with it?
Mr. Carroll. Stuck it in my belt.
Mr. Belin. And then?
Mr. Carroll. After leaving the theatre and getting into the car, I released the pistol to Sgt. Jerry Hill.
Mr. Belin. Sgt. G. L. Hill?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin. Who drove the car down to the station?
Mr. Carroll. I drove the car.
Mr. Belin. Did you give it to him before you started up the car, or after you started up the car, if you remember?
Mr. Carroll. After.
Mr. Belin. How far had you driven when you gave it to him?
Mr. Carroll. I don't recall exactly how far I had driven.
Mr. Belin. Did you put any identification mark at all on this weapon?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir; I did. The initials B. C., right above the screw on the inside of the butt of the pistol.
Mr. Belin. That is about an inch or so from the bottom of the pistol?
Mr. Carroll. Approximately an inch from the bottom of the butt of the pistol.
Mr. Belin. As you hold the pistol pointing, that metal strip is pointing up also, is that correct?
Mr. Carroll. That's correct.
Mr. Belin. Where did you put the initials?
Mr. Carroll. Where was I, or where did I put the initials on the pistol?
Mr. Belin. Where were you?
Mr. Carroll. I was in the personnel office of the city of Dallas police department.
Mr. Belin. With Sergeant Hill?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, and others who were present.
Mr. Belin. Did you see Sergeant Hill take it out of his pocket or wherever he had it, or not?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir.
Mr. Belin. What day did you put your initials on it?
Mr. Carroll. November 22, 1963.
Mr. Belin. During the drive down from the Texas Theatre, to the police station, do you remember any conversation with Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. Carroll. Some. He stated that he had not done anything that—he said, "Well, I was carrying a pistol, but that is all."
Mr. Belin. Was he ever asked his name?
Mr. Carroll. Yes, sir; he was asked his name.
Mr. Belin. Did he give his name?
Mr. Carroll. He gave, the best I recall, I wasn't able to look closely, but the best I recall, he gave two names, I think. I don't recall what the other one was.
Mr. Belin. Did he give two names? Or did someone in the car read from the identification?
Mr. Carroll. Someone in the car may have read from the identification. I know two names, the best I recall, were mentioned.
Mr. Belin. Were any addresses mentioned?
Mr. Carroll. Not that I recall; no, sir.
Mr. Belin. Did you talk at any time to Oswald in the car?
Mr. Carroll. No, sir; I had no conversation with him personally.
Mr. Belin. You were driving the car?
Mr. Carroll. Yes. If I looked at him, I would have to turn around.
Mr. Belin. Did you talk to him after you got downtown to the station?
Mr. Carroll. No, sir.
Mr. Belin. Did you hear him say anything after he got downtown to the station?
Mr. Carroll. No; I didn't hear him say anything.
Mr. Belin. Did you ever hear anyone say anything about his having an address on North Beckley or on Beckley Street?
Mr. Carroll. I heard later, but I couldn't say who it was that said it.
Mr. Belin. When you say later, you mean later than what?
Mr. Carroll. Later that day.
Mr. Belin. Was this after you relinquished custody of Oswald?
Mr. Carroll. Yes.
Mr. Belin. Up to that time had you heard it?
Mr. Carroll. I don't recall hearing it prior to the time I was in the city hall.
Mr. Belin. Anything else you can think of, whether we have discussed this or not, that in any way might be relevant?
Mr. Carroll. No, sir; because when we brought him out of the car, we took him straight up to the homicide and robbery office and there left him in custody of a homicide and robbery officer.
Mr. Belin. When this gun, Commission Exhibit 143, was taken by you and then subsequently given to Hill, did you at any time notice whether it was or was not loaded?
Mr. Carroll. I observed Sergeant Hill unload the gun.
Mr. Belin. How many bullets were in it?
Mr. Carroll. It was full. I believe there was six bullets, the best I recall.
Mr. Belin. All right, sir; we thank you again for making the second trip down, and we are sorry we didn't have the exhibit here when you first testified.
You have an opportunity, if you like, to read your deposition and sign it before it goes to Washington, or you can waive.
Mr. Carroll. I will sign it.
Mr. Belin. All right, you will be contacted.
Mr. Carroll. All right, fine.