TESTIMONY OF LOUIS D. MILLER
The testimony of Louis D. Miller was taken at 3:55 p.m., on March 24, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. Griffin. I will swear you in, Mr. Miller.
Mr. Miller. Before we do that, what are we doing here?
Mr. Griffin. We are taking your deposition.
Mr. Miller. I'd like to understand what we are doing here first.
Mr. Griffin. Well, all right. I'll be happy to explain it to you. First of all so that we can get the record straight, my name is Burt Griffin, and I am a member of the advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's Commission to investigate the assassination of President Kennedy. And the Commission has been appointed under Executive Order 11130, issued November 29, 1963, by President Johnson, under joint resolution of Congress No. 137, to investigate the facts surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of Lee Harvey Oswald, and the other circumstances that were attendant on these two offenses. Now, I have been authorized, under the rules of the Commission, to take your sworn deposition, and Chief Curry has a copy of that authorization. I will be happy to show it to you if you care to see it. Our particular interest in your testimony is to determine what facts you know about the death of Lee Harvey Oswald, but also to determine any other pertinent facts that you may know about the general inquiry which the Commission is authorized to go into. Now, you are here today because we have made a request from the General Counsel on the Commission staff, and pursuant to the rules adopted by the Commission, and we have made the request to Chief Curry. Now, you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to having this deposition taken, and if you would like that we would be happy to do that. We had presumed that probably the police officers would prefer to have the notice waived. You are also entitled to have an attorney present during this interrogation. Now, I have no objection in any way you want to handle this. I want you to be perfectly frank in telling us, because we have gone ahead, as I said, simply on the assumption that you probably would prefer to waive these matters, but if you would like to have the written notice and would like to have a copy of the authorizing resolution, or would like to have an attorney present during this deposition we would be happy——
Mr. Miller. No; I just want to understand what is going on.
Mr. Griffin. Well, do you have any question that you want to ask me about it? I have given you a general statement here.
Mr. Miller. What will this deposition be used for?
Mr. Griffin. Well, this deposition will be made a part of the Commission's files. It will not be turned over to any member of the police department. These files will remain in the possession of the Commission, and on the basis of all of the investigation which we are conducting here, why, there will be a report written. Now, I can't tell you what is going to happen to the files after—and that means this deposition—after the Commission issues its report. I would like to be able to give you the assurance that it will be impossible for anybody to ever see this deposition. I can't, in honesty, tell you that, because I don't know that that is true. On the other hand, I don't know that it is not true, but basically, it will be used to write a report, and your testimony that you would give would be one of probably close to 250, maybe 500 depositions that are going to be taken during this period. I think 500 might be a pretty fair estimate, together with thousands, and probably approaching ten thousand pages of investigative reports and other documents also in addition to all these investigative reports. That is where it is all going to wind up. But, I can assure you of this: That no copies of this are going to be turned over to any member of the police department or any official of the State of Texas as such. Now, whether or not the thing will be accessible because they are all deposited in the archives, and years from now somebody could go and look at them, I don't know the answers to that.
Mr. Miller. Well, is what you want from me a statement of what happened down there? Is that what you are getting at?
Mr. Griffin. Yes; but let me tell you this, too, that if you feel that you would prefer to talk about this thing off the record and that you think you would have important information to give us that you prefer to be kept—to have some assurances that your confidences would be kept completely, I would be happy to defer this deposition and do it in such a way that no one would know the reason for it, and I would check with our people in Washington to see if there weren't some arrangements which could be made for it, because we are most concerned with getting the truth, and as much information—I wasn't suggesting that you wouldn't tell the truth, that we all know, and I would appreciate if there were better circumstances under which we could do this. I would inquire into it and I would make this a matter of complete confidence between us.
Mr. Miller. Well, there is nothing that I know that possibly a hundred other people don't know, so, that part don't bother me, but I don't understand coming down and giving a statement, that I am supposed to stand, and swearing, and all that part of it.
Mr. Griffin. Well, this is just as—I am sure you have testified before grand juries.
Mr. Miller. I sure have.
Mr. Griffin. Of course, you have been sworn when you testified there. Only they don't have a court reporter in the grand jury. I don't know about Texas, but in Ohio we don't have a court reporter present. I do have the feeling in talking to you that maybe you would like to do this under some other circumstances, and I would be happy to explore this.
Mr. Miller. I understand that you want a statement from me.
Mr. Griffin. Well, I am going to examine you.
Mr. Miller. And I'll be more than glad to tell anything I know about it, but I don't understand swearing in. This is not a court.
Mr. Griffin. Not a court in the sense that anybody is on trial, but it is a—let me explain this to you, that we have authority to administer the oath, and we have authority to punish for all consequences in violation of the oath. The contempt provision of the Federal Code applies to this proceeding. We also have authority—I don't have this authority personally, but there is a provision granted that we can grant immunity from prosecution. If you feel that there will be some evidence that you wouldn't want to give for one reason or another, we have authority to grant immunity from prosecution. I don't have that authority here, but—and I do want to make it clear that you can have a right to have an attorney present, and many of the witnesses do have attorneys. Now, on the other extreme, if you would like to have a public hearing, we will open the hearing up to the public, but we haven't done it as a matter of routine except upon request, because we thought that most people prefer not to have it conducted in public, but that has been done, and we can do that.
Mr. Miller. I still don't understand the reason of it. Are you going to use this thing to try to prosecute me?
Mr. Griffin. No.
Mr. Miller. What are you going to use it for?
Mr. Griffin. We have no authority to prosecute anyone except for perjury before the Commission. Now, we—our instructions are—let me get a copy of the resolutions. Let me suggest that we handle it this way. I have got a copy here of the resolutions, Executive order signed by President Johnson, and the joint resolutions of Congress. The rules of the Commission and a memorandum dated March 20, 1964, from Mr. Rankin, who is the General Counsel of the Commission authorizing Mr. Hubert and me to administer your oath and take your deposition. Now, I think that what I prefer to do here so that you can be sure what you want to do, and I don't want to put you under any pressure. Now, I would like to give you this and have you try to find another room out here and look at this, and read it over, and think about this and ponder it as long as you want, and I want to give you assurance that I am going to call another—I am going to call Officer Montgomery in here and proceed with him. I am not going to tell him that I have not completed your deposition or anything like that. I want to be sure that as far as anybody is concerned whatsoever, what has transpired here is completely routine so that any decision you make, I can give you as much assurance as possible——
Mr. Miller. All I wanted to know is the purpose of the thing.
Mr. Griffin. Well——
Mr. Miller. And if I find out we can go on with it.
Mr. Hubert. Why don't you go ahead and read this and let me go ahead with Montgomery, and if you want I will tell Montgomery that you went on.
Mr. Miller. Well, now, do you want me to come back some more, or what?
Mr. Griffin. No; I'd like——
Mr. Miller. What time is it now? It is 4:15. I am due at home at 4:30.
Mr. Griffin. I don't want you to take that away, and I think that maybe it would be better if you waited around. Could you call your wife and meet me back here at 5 o'clock, and why don't you wait for me in my office?
Mr. Miller. Well, now, could we get on with the thing? I am trying to explain to you, I have got small kids be coming home from school and——
Mr. Griffin. Uh-huh. Well, would you rather think about it and come back some——
Mr. Miller. Well, if we can't take care of it today, I would like to come back tomorrow.
Mr. Griffin. Well, I can go ahead, you know. I want to make sure that you are satisfied in your own mind about everything before we start to ask any questions, and if you have any reservations or questions that I haven't answered I want you to look at those materials, and I would be happy to set it up for tomorrow if you would prefer to do it that way.
Mr. Miller. I sure would.
Mt. Griffin. All right. Would you—let's see, you would want to take that home with you, wouldn't you? Let me do this. Let's go back to our office and let me get the girl to Xerox off another copy of this.
Mr. Miller. All right.
Mr. Griffin. And let us set this up for 8:30. What time are you on duty tomorrow?
Mr. Miller. 8.
Mr. Griffin. What is the easiest way for you to handle it?
Mr. Miller. You mean time?
Mr. Griffin. Yes.
Mr. Miller. Probably 9 o'clock would be the easiest.
Mr. Griffin. All right. Why don't you come in at 9 o'clock then?
Mr. Miller. Okay.
Mr. Griffin. All right. That's all.