DIALOGUE ON RELIGION.
Which occurred at Healdsburg, Sonoma Co., Cal., in 1857, between Doctor Bonham, a Methodist Minister, and a "Mormon" Elder.
By H. G. B.
DR. BONHAM.—I understand that you are making some prosylytes to your Church in this country.
"MORMON" ELDER.—Yes, we have some fifty or sixty members that have been added to the Church lately, on this side of Sacramento River.
DR. B.—Nine-tenths of the religious portion of the community in this country look upon your people as being deceived, and your ministers as deceivers, and your doctrines as being false and pernicious.
M. E.—Yes, I am aware of this fact, and also of another fact: that is, that the same opinion prevailed among nine-tenths of the Pharisees and Sadducees, eighteen hundred years ago, about our Savior and His apostles and prophets, and the doctrines which they taught. The same kind of religious sentiment was arrayed against the gospel then, as now.
DR. B.—But you must know that the doctrines of a new revelation, and of apostles and prophets are a delusion, and that you are leading astray many of the people.
M. E.—Then the Bible must be a delusion, and it must be that it is leading many of the people astray, for the Bible teaches the same doctrine that we teach, namely, new revelation, apostles and prophets.
DR. B.—I deny that it does. "The law and the prophets continued until John, after which the kingdom of heaven was preached."
M. E.—Would you prove by this quotation that there were to be no more revelation, nor apostles and prophets after John? Then, indeed, was Jesus Himself a false prophet, and His apostles were false teachers, and all that was revealed to the world through Him and them was also false. Such a conclusion is impossible. What, then, are the facts? The kingdom of heaven was really preached afterwards, and that, too, by apostles and prophets, with a continual flow of revelation.
DR. B.—Yes, I will agree that new revelation and apostles and prophets were necessary till the kingdom was established; but after that time, they were no longer needed, and were rightly done away. They left us a perfect pattern in the New Testament, which is all that is needed to guide the church in all things.
M. E.—And, according to this perfect pattern you allude to, you have elders, bishops, priests, teachers and deacons in your church, have you?
DR. B.—Yes; to be sure we have. And these officers are in our church according to the perfect pattern given us in the New Testament.
M. E.—I suppose, then, you have apostles, prophets and seventies in your church, thus following out the perfect pattern to its completeness.
DR. B.—No; we have no apostles nor prophets; nor have we any seventies. They are all done away with.
M. E.—Now, can't you see that you are inconsistent? If the New Testament pattern requires elders and bishops to be organized in the church, it also requires apostles and prophets just the same. If this pattern is authority for an elder, it is just as good authority for an apostle. If authority for a bishop, it is just as surely authority for a prophet. Your assertion that they are done away with, and no longer needed, is a palpable contradiction of the plainest truths of the New Testament pattern.
DR. B.—Does not Paul, in the 8th verse of the 13th chapter of his first letter to the Corinthians, say, "Whether there be prophecies they shall fail?"
M. E.—Yes, and in the 10th verse of the same chapter Paul plainly tells them when prophecy shall fail, that is: "When that which is perfect is come." Paul, in his 4th chapter to the Ephesians, 11th to 13th verses, also refers to the apostles and prophets as being necessary in the church to bring about this perfection, also for the work of the ministry, and to continue "till we all come in the unity of the faith."
The work of the ministry is not or ought not to be done away. The perfecting of the Saints, and that unity spoken of, are works that belong to all time, as surely as it was necessary in Paul's time. Therefore, your quotation from Paul is certainly a very strong proof in favor of our doctrines.
DR. B—I cannot see the necessity of apostles and prophets; nor do I believe that God intended that they should be continued in the church. Is it not written in the last chapter of John's Revelations, 18th and 19th verses, that if any man shall add to or diminish from the words of this book, that a heavy penalty shall rest upon him? If God did not allow any more revelations to the world than they at that time possessed, then the necessity for apostles and prophets no longer existed, as they were the only mediums through whom He revealed His will to mankind.
M. E—What you see, or cannot see, or what you believe, or do not believe in this connection, does not amount to a pin, unless you see and believe the truth.
In the 12th chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians, Paul compares the church of Christ to the body of a man, placing the apostles and prophets as the head of that body; other officers and members composing the other portions of the body.
There were many members, yet but one body. God had set the members in the body as it pleased him; first, apostles, then prophets, etc., down to the feet. The head could not say to the body, "I have no need of you;" nor again, could the feet say to the body, "We have no need of you." The body could not live an hour without the head. Therefore, the church of Christ could not live without apostles and prophets, these constituting the head of the Church.
DR. B.—But you have not answered my quotation from John, forbidding any addition to the word of God, thus cutting off the necessity of new revelation, and the channels or mediums through which it was given, forever after.
M. E.—That was just what I was going to come to when you interrupted me. God did, indeed, forbid any man to add to, or diminish from His word, as you correctly quoted. Also in Deuteronomy, 4th chapter and 2nd verse, we find a similar prohibition, given through Moses. Now what do these passages prove? Simply this: Man shall not add nor diminish, but the Lord can do so at His pleasure. A few days after the death of Moses the Lord began to reveal more of His word to Joshua, the successor of Moses. And it is recorded in history that the Lord did the same thing in St. John's case, for he wrote his narrative of the gospel and his three epistles after his Book of Revelations, from which you made your quotation.
DR. B.—Your doctrines are the most dangerous that I know of, and the best calculated to deceive the ignorant and the unwary. And your preaching ought not to be allowed in this country, and I shall try to prevent all that I can have any influence over from going to hear you.
M. E.—I have not done with your quotations yet. No man in our Church has ever added to or diminished the word of God. We have never violated those restrictions in the least, but the Methodists and many other sects of the present day have both added to and taken from the word of God. They have added the practice of infant baptism, and substituted sprinkling for the ordinance of baptism by immersion. They have heaped to themselves teachers, having itching ears, who have turned from the truth and have added their fables; they divine for money and preach for hire. They have added the mourner's bench to what they call the worship of God. The fear of God is taught by the precepts of men, and nearly all that is preached or believed in by them is of their own adding.
They have diminished from the word of God in that they deny new revelation, apostles, prophets, seventies, the gifts of the Holy Ghost, the ordinances and power of the gospel, and all the grandest, best and most glorious promises contained in the great plan of salvation.
And I warn you to beware that the plagues John spoke of be not added to you, and that your part in the book of life and your part in the holy city be not taken away. For you have "transgressed the law, changed the ordinances and broken the everlasting covenant."
DR. B.—I understand that the government is sending an army to Utah, to exterminate you "Mormons." And I think it will serve them just right. Such gross impostors ought not to be allowed to live. No such delusion should be tolerated among civilized communities.
M. E.—That's right; come out in your true colors! Like the Pharisees of old, when you cannot bring any arguments to prevail against the truth, you would resort to the sword—you would have recourse to arms—to violence, and destroy all those that love and sustain the truth. And you, Doctor Bonham, would have been first among the men that crucified the Redeemer, had you lived then. You would have been the man to have beheaded John the Baptist, and for the same reason; and to have slain the apostles and prophets. Your antipathy to apostles and prophets prove it. "Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers," the Pharisees.