Replies to Minor Queries.
"Firm was their faith," &c. (Vol. viii., p. 564.).—These lines are to be found in a poem called "Morwennæ Statio, hodie Morwenstow," published by Masters in 1846, with the title of Echoes from Old Cornwall, and written by the Vicar of Morwenstow. I agree with D. M. in the judgment he has announced as to their merits; but hitherto they have been but little appreciated by the public. A time will come however, when these and other compositions of the author will be better known and more duly valued by the English mind.
Saxa.
These lines were written on "the Minster of Morwenna," May, 1840, and appeared in the British Magazine under the anonymous name Procul. Of the eight stanzas of which the poem consists, P. M. has quoted the second. The second line should be read "wise of heart," and the third "firm and trusting hands." With your correspondent, I hope the author's name may be discovered.
F. R. R.
Vellum-cleaning (Vol. viii., p.340.).—In the Polytechnic Institution there are specimens of old deeds, &c., on vellum and paper, beautifully cleaned and restored by Mr. George Clifford, 5. Inner Temple Lane, Temple, London.
J. McK.
Shoreham.
Wooden Tombs (Vol. viii., p. 255.).—In the church at Brading, Isle of Wight—
"There are some old tombs in the communion place, and in Sir William Oglander's chapel, or family burial-place, which is separated from the rest of the church by an oak screen. The most ancient legible date of these monuments is 1567. Two of them have full-length figures in armour of solid elm wood, originally painted in their proper colours, and gilt, but now disfigured by coats of dirty white."—Barber's Picturesque Guide to the Isle of Wight, 1850, pp. 28, 29.
J. McK.
Shoreham.
Solar Eclipse in the Year 1263 (Vol. viii., p. 441.).—In the Transactions of the Antiquarian Society of Scotland, vol. ii. p. 350., there are "Observations on the Norwegian Expedition against Scotland in the year 1263," by John Dillon, Esq.; and at pp. 363-4, when speaking of the annular eclipse, he says:
"The eclipse above mentioned is described to have occurred between these two dates [29th July and 9th August]. This being pointed out to Dr. Brewster, he had the curiosity to calculate the eclipse, when he found that there was an eclipse of the sun on 5th August, 1263, and which was annular at Ronaldsvo, in Orkney, and the middle of it was twenty-four minutes past one."
These "Observations" contain much curious information; but are deformed by the author attempting to wrest the text of the Norwegian writer (at p. 358. and in note I.) to suit an absurd crotchet of his own. Having seen that essay in MS., I pointed out those errors; but instead of attending to my observations, he would not read them, and got into a passion against the friend who showed the MS. to me.
J. McK.
Shoreham.
Lines on Woman (Vol. viii., pp. 292. 350. &c.).—The lines on Woman are, I presume, an altered version of those of Barret (Mrs. Barrett Browning?); they are the finale of a short poem on Woman; the correct version is the following:
"Peruse the sacred volume, Him who died
Her kiss betray'd not, nor her tongue denied;
While even the Apostle left Him to His doom,
She linger'd round His cross and watch'd His tomb."
I would copy the whole poem, but fear you would think it too long for insertion.
Ma. L.
[Our correspondent furnishes an addition to our list of parallel passages. The lines quoted by W. V. and those now given by our present correspondent can never be different readings of the same poem. Besides, it has been already shown that the lines asked for are from the poem entitled Woman, by Eaton Stannard Barrett (see antè, pp. 350. 423.).]
Satin (Vol. vii., p. 551.).—In a note just received by me from Canton, an American friend of mine remarks as follows:
"When you write again to 'N. & Q.' you can say that the word satin (Vol. vii., p. 551.), like the article itself, is of Chinese origin, and that other foreign languages, in endeavouring like the English to imitate the Chinese sz-tün, have approximated closely to it, and to each other. Of this the answers to the Query given in the place referred to are a sufficient proof; Fr. satin, W. sidan, &c. &c."
I suspect that he is right, and that Ogilvie and Webster, whom you quote, have not got to the bottom of the word. I may add that the notion of my Canton friend receives approval from a Chinese scholar to whom I have shown the above extract.
W. T. M.
Hong Kong.
"Quid facies," &c. (Vol. viii., p. 539.).—
"Bierve, N. Maréchal, Marquis de, a Frenchman well known for his ready wit and great facetiousness. He wrote two plays of considerable merit, Les Réputations and Le Séducteur. He died at Spa, 1789, aged 42. He is author of the distich on courtezans:
'Quid facies, facies Veneris cum veneris ante?
Ne sedeas! sed eas, ne pereas per eas.'"
—Lemprière's Universal Biography, abridged from the larger work, London, 1808.
C. Forbes.
Temple.
Sotades (Vol. viii., p. 520.).—Your correspondent Charles Reed says that Sotades was a Roman poet 250 B.C.; and that to him we owe the line, "Roma tibi subito," &c. Sotades was a native of Maroneia in Thrace, or, according to others, of Crete; and flourished at Alexandria B.C. 280 (Smith's Dictionary of Biography, Clinton, F. H., vol. iii. p. 888.). We have a few fragments of his poems, but none of them are palindromical. The authority for his having written so, is, I suppose, Martial, Epig. II. 86. 2.:
"Nec retro lego Sotaden cinædum."
Zeus.
The Third Part of "Christabel" (Vol. viii., pp. 11. 111.).—Has the Irish Quarterly Review any other reason for ascribing this poem to Maginn than the common belief which makes him the sole and original Morgan Odoherty? If not, its evidence is of little value, as, exclusive of some pieces under that name which have been avowed by other writers, many of the Odoherty papers contain palpable internal evidence of having been written by a Scotchman, or at least one very familiar with Scotland, which at that time he was not; even the letter accompanying the third part of Christabel is dated from Glasgow, and though this would in itself prove nothing, the circumstances above mentioned, as well as Dr. Moir's evidence as to the time when Maginn's contributions to Blackwood commenced, seems strongly presumptive against his claim. Some of the earliest and most distinguished writers in Blackwood are still alive, and could, no doubt, clear up this point at once, if so inclined.
J. S. Warden.
Attainment of Majority (Vol. viii., pp. 198. 250.).—In my last communication upon this subject I produced undeniable authority to prove that the law did not regard the fraction of a day; this, I think, A. E. B. will admit. The question is, now, does the day on which a man attains his majority commence at six o'clock A.M., or at midnight? We must remember that we are dealing with a question of English law; and therefore the evidence of an English decision will, I submit, be stronger proof of the latter mode of reckoning than the only positive proof with which A. E. B. has defended Ben Jonson's use of the former, viz. Roman.
In a case tried in Michaelmas Term, 1704, Chief Justice Holt said:
"It has been adjudged that if one be born the 1st of February at eleven at night, and the last of January in the twenty-first year of his age at one o'clock in the morning, he makes his will of lands and dies, it is a good will, for he was then of age."—Salkeld, 44.; Raymond, 480, 1096; 1 Siderfin, 162.
In this case, therefore, the testator was accounted of age forty-six hours before the completion of his twenty-first year. Now, the law not regarding the fraction of a day, the above case, I submit, clearly proves that the day, as regards the attainment of majority, began at midnight.
Russell Gole.
Lord Halifax and Mrs. C. Barton (Vol. viii., pp. 429. 543.).—In answer to J. W. J.'s Query, I beg to state that I have in my possession a codicil of Mrs. Conduit's will in her own hand, dated 26th of January, 1737. This document refers to some theological tracts by Sir Isaac Newton, in his handwriting, which I have. On referring to the pedigree of the Barton family, I find that Colonel Robert Barton married Catherine Greenwood, whose father lived at Rotterdam, and was ancestor of Messrs. Greenwood, army agents. His issue were Major Newton Barton, who married Elizabeth Ekins, Mrs. Burr, and Catherine Robert Barton. I find no mention of Colonel Noel Barton. The family of Ekins had been previously connected with that of Barton, Alexander Ekins, Rector of Barton Segrave, having married Jane Barton of Brigstock. The writer of this note will be obliged if J. W. J., or any correspondent of "N. & Q.," will inform him if anything is known respecting an ivory bust of Sir Isaac Newton, executed by Marchand or Marchant, which is said to have been an excellent likeness.
S. X.
[The ivory bust referred to by our correspondent is, we believe, in the British Museum.]
The fifth Lord Byron (Vol. viii., p. 2.).—I cannot but think that Mr. Hasleden's memory has deceived him as to the "wicked lord" having
settled his estates upon the marriage of his son; how is this to be reconciled with the often published statement, that the marriage of his son with his cousin Juliana, daughter of the admiral, and aunt of the late and present lords, was made not only without the consent, but in spite of the opposition, of the old lord, and that he never forgave his son in consequence?
J. S. Warden.
Burton Family (Vol. iv., pp. 22. 124.).—In connexion with a Query which was kindly noticed by Mr. Algor of Sheffield, who did not however communicate anything new to me, I would ask who was Samuel Burton, Esq., formerly Sheriff of Derbyshire; whose death at Sevenoaks, in October, 1750, I find recorded in the Obituary of the Gentleman's Magazine for that year? I am also desirous to ascertain who was Sir Francis Cavendish Burton of St. Helens, whose daughter and heiress, Martha, married Richard Sikes, Esq., ancestor of the Sikes's of the Chauntry House near Newark. She died since 1696. Both Samuel Burton and Mrs. Sikes were related to the Burtons of Kilburn, in the parish of Horsley, near Derby, to whom my former Query referred.
E. H. A.
Provost Hodgson's Translation of the Atys of Catullus (Vol. viii., p. 563.).—In answer to Mr. Gantillon's inquiry for the above translation, I beg to state that it will be found appended to an octavo edition of Hodgson's poem of Lady Jane Grey.
In the same volume will be found, I believe (for I have not the work before me), some of the modern Latin poetry respecting which Balliolensis inquiries. The justly admired translation of Edwin and Angelina, to which the latter refers, was by Hodgson's too early lost friend Lloyd. The splendid pentameter is slightly misquoted by Balliolensis. It is not—
"Poscimus in terris pauca, nec illa diù."
but—
"Poscimus in vitâ," &c.
Thomas Russell Potter.
Wymeswold, Loughborough.
Wylcotes' Brass (Vol. viii., p. 494.).—I should hardly have supposed that any difficulty could exist in explaining the inscription:
"In · on · is · all."
To me it appears self-evident that it must be—
"In one (God) is my all."
H. C. C.
Hoby, Family of; their Portraits, &c. (Vol. viii., p. 244.).—I would refer J. B. Whitborne to The Antiquities of Berkshire (so miscalled), by Elias Ashmole; where, in treating of Bisham, that learned antiquary has given the inscriptions to the Hoby family as existing and legible in his time. It does not appear that Sir Philip Hoby, or Hobbie, Knight, was ever of the Privy Council; but, in 1539, one of the Gentlemen of the Privy Chamber to King Henry VIII. (which monarch granted to him in 1546-7 the manor of Willoughby in Edmonton, co. Middlesex), Sir Thomas Hoby, the brother, and successor in the estates of Sir Philip, was, in 1566, ambassador to France; and died at Paris July 13 in the same year (not 1596), aged thirty-six. The coat of the Hobys of Bisham, as correctly given, is "Argent, within a border engrailed sable, three spindles, threaded in fesse, gules." A grant or confirmation of this coat was made by Sir Edward Bysshe, Clarenceux, to Peregrine Hoby of Bisham, Berks, natural son of Sir Edward Hoby, Nov. 17, 1664. The Bisham family bore no crest nor motto.
H. C. C.
The Keate Family (Vol. viii., pp. 293. 525.)—Should the Query of G. B. B. not be sufficiently answered by the extract from Mr. Burke's Extinct and Dormant Baronetcies of England relating to the Keate family, as I have a full pedigree of that surname, I may perhaps be able, on application, to satisfy him with some genealogical particulars which are not noticed in Mr. Burke's works.
H. C. C.
Sir Charles Cotterell (Vol viii., p. 564.).—Sir Charles Cotterell, the translator of Cassandra, died in 1687. (See Fuller's Worthies, by Nuttall, vol. ii. p. 309.)
Ἁλιεύς.
Dublin.
Huc's Travels (Vol. viii., p. 516.).—Not having seen the Gardener's Chronicle, in which C. W. B. says the travels of Messrs. Huc and Gabet in Thibet, Tartary, &c. are said to be a pure fabrication, concocted by some Parisian littérateur, I cannot know what degree of credit, if any, is to be given to such a statement. All I wish to communicate at present for the information of your Querist C. W. B. is this, that I have read an account and abstract of Messrs. Huc and Gabet's Travels in one of the ablest and best conducted French reviews, La Revue des Deux Mondes; in which not the least suspicion of fabrication is hinted, or the slightest doubt expressed as to the genuineness of these Travels. Mr. Princep, also, in his work on Thibet, Tartary, &c. quotes largely from Huc's Travel's, and avails himself extensively of the information contained in them with reference to Buddhism, &c.
Should the writer in the Gardener's Chronicle have it in his power to prove the Travels to be a fabrication, he will confer a benefit on the world of letters by unmasking the fabricator.
J. M.
Oxford.
Pictures at Hampton Court Palace (Vol. viii., p. 538.).—In reply to Φ.'s question when the review of the 10th Light Dragoons by King
George III., after the Prince of Wales assumed the command of that regiment, I beg to state that the Prince entered the army as brevet-colonel, Nov. 19, 1782; that the regiment received the title of "The Prince of Wales's own Regiment of Light Dragoons" on Michaelmas Day, 1783: that the regiment was stationed in the south of England and in the vicinity of London for many years, from 1790 to 1803 inclusive; and that King George III. repeatedly reviewed it, accompanied by the queen and the royal family. That the Prince of Wales was appointed Colonel-commandant of the corps in 1793, and succeeded Sir W. A. Pitt as colonel of it in July 18, 1796. That the regiment was reviewed on Hounslow Heath by the King in August, 1799; and the Prince of Wales (who commanded it in person) received his Majesty's orders to convey his Majesty's approbation of its excellent appearance and performance. Perhaps the picture by Sir William Beechey was painted in 1799, and not 1798. I did not find the catalogue at Hampton Court free from errors, when I last visited the palace in October, 1852.
M. A.
Pembroke College, Oxon.
John Waugh (Vol. viii., pp. 271. 400. 525.).—Does Karleolensis know whether John Waugh, son of Waugh, Bishop of Carlisle, was married, and to whom?
Farther information of the above family would be most acceptable, and thankfully acknowledged, by George Waugh, of the family of the Waughs of Oulton and Lofthouse, Yorkshire.
Exeter.
Daughters taking their Mothers' Names (Vol. viii., p. 586.).—When Buriensis asks for instances of this, and mentions "Alicia, daughter of Ada," as an example, is he not mistaking, or following some one else who has mistaken, the gender of the parent's name? Alicia fil. Adæ would be rendered "Alice Fitz-Adam," unless there be anything in the context to determine the gender otherwise.
J. Sansom.
"Service is no Inheritance" (Vol. viii., p. 586.).—This proverbial saying has evidently arisen from the old manorial right, under which the lord of the manor claimed suit and service and fealty before admitting the heir to his inheritance, or the purchaser to his purchase. On which occasion, the party admitted to the estate, whether purchaser or heir, "fecit fidelitatem suam et solvit relevium;" the relief being generally a year's rent or service.
Anon.
Sir Christopher Wren and the young Carver (Vol. viii., p. 340.).—If your correspondent A. H. has not already appropriated the anecdote here alluded to, I think I can confidently refer him to any biographical notice of Grindling Gibbons—to whom the story of the "Sow and Pigs" relates. Gibbons was recommended to Sir Christopher by Evelyn, I think; but not having "made a note of it," I am not sure that it is to be found in his Diary.[[4]] If there be any monograph Life of Gibbons, it can scarcely fail to be found there.
M. (2)
Footnote 4:[(return)]
See Evelyn's Diary, vol. ii. pp. 53, 54., edition 1850.—Ed.
Souvaroff's Despatch (Vol. viii., p. 490).—Souvaroff's doggerel despatch from Ismail, immortalised by Byron, is, as usual, misspelt and mistranslated. Allow me to furnish you with what I have never yet seen in English, a correct version of it:
"Slava Bogou, slava Vam;
Krépost vziala, ee ya tam."
"Glory to God, glory to You,
The fortress is taken, and I am there."
Dmitri Andréef.
Detached Church Towers (Vol. viii., p. 63.).—In the lists I have seen no mention is made of the fine tower of West Walton Church, which stands at a distance of nearly twenty yards from the body of the church.
W. B. D.
Lynn.
Queen Anne's Motto (Vol. viii., p. 174.).—The Historical Society of Pennsylvania is in possession of an English coat of arms, painted on wood in the time of Queen Anne, having "Anna R." at the top, and the motto Semper eadem on the scroll below. It probably was in one of the Philadelphia court-rooms, and was taken down at the Revolution.
Uneda.
Philadelphia.
Lawyers' Bags (Vol. vii. passim).—The communication of Mr. Kersley, in p. 557., although it does not support the inference which Col. Landman draws, that the colour of lawyers' bags was changed in consequence of the unpopularity which it acquired at the trial of Queen Caroline, seems to show that green was at one time the colour of those professional pouches. The question still remains, when and on what occasion it was discontinued; and when the purple, and when the crimson, were introduced?
When I entered the profession (about fifty years ago), no junior barrister presumed to carry a bag in the Court of Chancery, unless one had been presented to him by a king's counsel; who, when a junior was advancing in practice, took an opportunity of complimenting him on his increase of business, and giving him his own bag to carry home his papers. It was then a distinction to carry a bag, and a proof that a junior was rising
in his profession. I do not know whether the same custom prevailed in the other courts.
Causidicus.
In this city (Philadelphia) lawyers formerly carried green bags. The custom has declined of late years among the members of the legal profession, and it has been taken up by journeymen boot and shoe makers, who thus carry their work to and from the workshop. A green bag is now the badge of a cordwainer in this city.
Philadelphia.
Bust of Luther (Vol. viii., p. 335.).—Mr. J. G. Fitch asks for information respecting a bust of Luther, with an inscription, on the wall of a house, in the Dom Platz at Frankfort on the Maine. I have learned, through a German acquaintance, who has resided the greater part of his life in that city, that the effigy was erected to commemorate the event of Luther's having, during a short stay in Frankfort, preached near that spot; and that the words surrounding the bust were his text on the occasion. He adds that Luther at no period of his life "lived for some years" at Frankfort, as stated by Mr. Fitch.
Alfred Smith.
Grammar in relation to Logic (Vol. viii., pp. 514. 629.).—H. C. K.'s remarks are of course indisputable. But it is a mistake to suppose that they answer my Query. In fact, had your correspondent taken the trouble to consider the meaning of my Query, he could not have failed to perceive that the explanation I there gave of the function of the conjunction in logic, is the same as his. My Query had sole reference to grammar. I would also respectfully suggest that anonymous correspondents should not impute "superficial views," or any other disagreeable thing, to those who stand confessed, without abandoning the pseudonym.
C. Mansfield Ingleby.
Birmingham.