Replies to Minor Queries.
Daughters taking their Mothers' Names (Vol. viii., p.586.).—Buriensis asked for instances of temp. Edw. I., II., III., of a daughter adding to her own name that of her mother: as Alice, daughter of Ada, &c. Though I am not able to furnish an instance of a daughter doing so, I can refer him to a few of sons using that form of surname some years earlier, but the practice seems very limited. Thus in Liber de Antiquis Legibus, published by the Camden Society, we have, among the early sheriffs of London in 1193, Willielmus filius Ysabelis, or, as in the appendix 222, Ysabel; in 1200, Willielmus filius Alicie; in 1213, Martinus filius Alicie; and in 1233 and 1246, Simon filius Marie,—the same person that, as Simon Fitz-Mary, is known as the founder of the Hospital of St. Mary Bethlehem Without, Bishopsgate.
W. S. W.
Middle Temple.
The Young Pretender (Vol. ix., p. 177.).—Will Ceyrep, or any other correspondent, furnish me with particulars of the Young Pretender's marriage with a daughter of the House of Stolberg; her name, place of burial, &c.? She was descended maternally from the noble House of Bruce, through the marriage of Thomas, second Earl of Aylesbury and third Earl of Elgin, with Charlotte (his second wife) Countess of Sannu, or Sannau, of the House of Argenteau. They had a daughter, Charlotte Maria, I suppose an only child, who was married in the year 1722 to the Prince of Horn. These had issue Mary and Elizabeth, whom also I suppose
to have been only children. One of them married the Prince of Stolberg, and the other the Prince of Salm. One of the descendants of this family was an annuitant on the estate of the Marquis of Aylesbury, as recently as twelve or fourteen years ago. Information on any part of this descent would confer an obligation on
Patonce.
A Legend of the Hive (Vol. ix., p. 167.).—With every feeling of gratitude to Eirionnach, I cannot receive praise for false metre and erroneous grammar. In the fifth line of the first stanza of the quoted verse, the first of the above legend, "are" is redundant: and in the first line of the next stanza, "bore" should be "bare." I remember that in more cases than one the printer of my published rhymes has perpetrated this latter mistake.
Suffer me to reply to a question of the same courteous critic Eirionnach, in Vol. ix., p. 162., about a "Christ-cross-row." This name for the alphabet obtained in the good old Cornish dame-schools when I was a boy. In a book that I have seen, there is a vignette of a monk teaching a little boy to read, and beneath
"A Christ-Cross Rhyme.
I.
"Christ his cross shall be my speed!
Teach me, Father John, to read:
That in church, on holy-day,
I may chant the psalm and pray.
II.
"Let me learn, that I may know
What the shining windows show;
Where the lovely Lady stands,
With that bright Child in her hands.
III.
"Teach me letters one, two, three,
Till that I shall able be
Signs to know and words to frame,
And to spell sweet Jesu's name!
IV.
"Then, dear master, will I look
Day and night in that fair book,
Where the tales of saints are told,
With their pictures all in gold.
V.
"Teach me, Father John, to say
Vesper-verse and matin-lay;
So when I to God shall plead,
Christ his cross will be my speed!"
H. of Morwenstow.
Hoby Family (Vol. viii., p. 244.; Vol. ix., pp. 19. 58.).—Sir Philip Hoby, or Hobbie, who was born in 1505, and died in 1558, was not only Gentleman of the Privy Chamber to Henry VIII., but, while he held that office, was attached to the embassy of Sir Thomas Wyatt to the Emperor Charles V. in 1538. He was himself ambassador to the same Emperor in 1548, being sent by the Protector Somerset to replace the Bishop of Westminster. It may be interesting to state that two volumes of papers containing instructions and other letters transmitted to Sir Philip during these embassies, and copies of his replies, together with his correspondence with some eminent reformers, were in the possession of Wm. Hare, Esq., M.P. for the city of Cork in 1796. An account of them, drawn up by the Rev. T. D. Hincks, was read before the Royal Irish Academy on December 17 in that year, and printed in the sixth volume of its Transactions. It is probable that these papers had formerly belonged to Rev. Sir Philip Hoby, Bart., who was Dean of Ardfert and Chancellor of St. Patrick's; and died without an heir in 1766. He was descended from Sir Thomas Hoby, younger brother of Sir Philip; who was born in 1530, and died in 1566. The father of these two knights was William Hobbie of Leominster. I presume the two volumes of papers referred to are in the possession of the Earl of Listowel, great-grandson of the gentleman who possessed them in 1796.
E. H. D. D.
Anticipatory Use of the Cross (Vol. viii. passim).—
"It is strange, yet well authenticated, and has given rise to many theories, that the symbol of the Cross was already known to the Indians before the arrival of Cortez. In the island of Cozumel, near Yucatan, there were several; and in Yucatan itself there was a stone cross. And there an Indian, considered a prophet amongst his countrymen, had declared that a nation bearing the same as a symbol should arrive from a distant country! More extraordinary still was a temple, dedicated to the Holy Cross by the Toltec nation in the city of Cholula. Near Tulansingo there is also a cross engraved on a rock with various characters, which the Indians by tradition ascribe to the Apostle St. Thomas. In Oajaca, also, there existed a cross, which the Indians from time immemorial had been accustomed to consider as a divine symbol. By order of the Bishop Cervantes it was placed in a sumptuous chapel in the cathedral. Information concerning its discovery, together with a small cup, cut out of its wood, was sent to Rome to Paul V.; who received it on his knees, singing the hymn 'Vexilla regis,' &c."—Life in Mexico, by Madame Calderon de la Barca, Letter xxxvii.
E. H. A.
Longevity (Vols. vii., viii., passim).—
"Amongst the fresh antiquities of Cornwall, let not the old woman be forgotten who died about two years since; who was one hundred and sixty-four years old, of good memory, and healthful at that age; living in the parish of Gwithian by the charity of such as came purposely to see her, speaking to them (in default of English) by an interpreter, yet partly understanding it. She married a second husband after she was eighty, and buried him after he was eighty years of age."—Scawens' Dissertation on the Cornish Tongue, written temp. Car. II.
Anon.
As very many, if not all, the instances mentioned in "N. & Q." of those who have reached a very advanced age, were people of humble origin, may we not now refer to those of noble birth? To commence the list, I would name Sir Ralph de Vernon, "who is said to have lived to the age of one hundred and fifty, and thence generally was called the Old Liver." My authority is, Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, edit. 1848, p. 1009.
W. W.
Malta.
"Nugget" (Vol. viii., pp. 375. 481.).—A note from Mundy's Our Antipodes:
"The word nugget, among farmers, signifies a small compact beast, a runt: among gold-miners a lump, in contradistinction to the scale or dust-gold."
Clericus Rusticus.
The fifth Lord Byron (Vol. ix., p. 18.).—I believe it to be an acknowledged fact, that an old man's memory is generally good of events of years past and gone: and as an octogenarian I am not afraid to state that, from the discussions on the subject, I feel myself perfectly correct as to the main point of my observations (Vol. viii., p. 2.), viz. the error committed in the limitation of the ultimate reversion of the estate; but as to the secondary point to which Mr. Warden alludes, I may perhaps be in error in placing it on the settlement of the son, inasmuch as the effect would be the same if it occurred in the settlement of the father; and Mr. Warden's observations leave an inference that the mistake may have there occurred; as, in such case, if the error had been discovered,—and by any altercation the son had refused to correct the mistake, which he could and ought to have consented to, after the failure of his own issue,—this alone, between two hasty tempers, would have been sufficient cause of quarrel, without reference to the question of marrying an own cousin, which is often very justly objectionable.
Wm. S. Hesleden.
Wapple, or Whapple-way (Vol. ix., p. 125.).—This name is common in the south, and means a bridle-way, or road in which carriages cannot pass. In Sussex these ways are usually short cuts through fields and woods, from one road or place to another. (See Halliwell's Dictionary, and Cooper's Sussex Glossary.) The derivation is not given by either writer.
D.
In Manning's Surrey, I find not any mention of this term; but apprehend it to be a corruption of the Norman-French, vert plain, "a green road or alley:" which, as our Saxon ancestors pronounced the v as a w, easily slides into war plain or warple. (See Du Cange, Supp., in voce "Plain.")
C. H.
The Ducking-stool (Vol. viii., p.315.).—As late as the year 1824, a woman was convicted of being a common scold in the Court of Quarter Sessions of Philadelphia County, and sentenced "to be placed in a certain instrument of correction called a cucking or ducking-stool," and plunged three times into the water; but the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, upon the removal of the case by writ of error, decided that this punishment was obsolete, and contrary to the spirit of the age.
Our fathers held the ducking-stool in higher respect, as appears from the following presentments of the grand juries of Philadelphia, the originals of which have been lately discovered. In January, 1717, they say (through William Fishbourne, their foreman),—
"Whereas it has been frequently and often presented by several former grand juries for this city, the necessity of a ducking-stool and house of correction for the just punishment of scolding, drunken women, as well as divers other profligate and unruly persons in this place, who are become a public nuisance and disturbance to this town in general; therefore we, the present grand jury, do earnestly again present the same to this court of quarter sessions for the city, desiring their immediate care, that those publick conveniences may not be any longer delayed, but with all possible speed provided for the detection and quieting such disorderly persons."
Another, the date of which is not given, but which is signed by the same foreman, presents "Alsoe that a ducking-stoole be made for publick use, being very much wanting for scolding women," &c. And in 1720, another grand jury, of which Benjamin Duffield was foreman, say:
"The Grand Inquest, we taking in consideration the great disorders of the turbulent and ill-behaviour of many people in this city, we present the great necessity of a ducking-stool for such people according to their deserts."
Uneda.
Philadelphia.
Double Christian Names (Vol. ix., p. 45.).—It is surely not correct to say that the earliest instance of two Christian names is in the case of a person born in 1635. Surely Henry, Prince of Wales, the son of James I., is an earlier instance. Sir Thomas Strand Fairfax was certainly born before that date. Sir Edmund Berry Godfrey was probably an earlier instance; and Sir Robert Bruce Colton, the antiquary, certainly so. Writing at a distance from my books, I can only appeal to memory; but see Southey's Common-Place Book, vol. i. p. 510. Venables, in his Travels in Russia,
tells us that "a Russian has never more than one Christian name, which must be always that of a saint." To these a patronymic is often added of the father's name, with the addition vich, as in the case of the present Czar, Nicholas Paulovich, the son of Paul.
W. Denton.
Torquay.
Pedigree to the Time of Alfred (Vol. viii., p. 586.).—Some ten or twelve years since I was staying at the King's Head Inn, Egham, Surrey (now defunct), when a fresh-looking, respectable man was pointed out to one as Mr. Wapshot, who had held an estate in the neighbourhood from his ancestors prior to the Conquest. He was not represented as a blacksmith, but as farming his own estate. I am not connected with Egham or the neighbourhood, or I would make farther inquiry.
S. D.
Palace of Lucifer (Vol. v., p. 275.).—If R. T. has not observed it, I would refer him to the note in the Aldine edition of Milton, vol. iii. p. 263., where I find "Luciferi domus" is the palace of the sun (see Prolusiones, p. 120.); and not, as T. Warton conjectured, the abode of Satan.
I. R. R.
Monaldeschi (Vol. viii., p. 34.).—Relation du Meurte de Monaldeschi, poignardé par ordre de Christine, reine de Suède, by Father de Bel, is to be found in a collection of curious papers printed at Cologne, 1664, in 12mo. It is given at length in Cristina's Revenge, and other Poems, by J. M. Moffatt, London, printed for the author, 1821.
E. D.
Anna Lightfoot (Vol. vii., p. 595.).—T. H. H. is referred to an elegantly printed pamphlet called An Historical Fragment relative to her late Majesty Queen Caroline, printed for J. & N. L. Hunt, London, 1824, which, from p. 44. to p. 50., contains a very circumstantial account of this extraordinary occurrence.
E. D.
Lode (Vol. v., p. 345.).—It would not appear that this word means "an artificial watercourse," at least from its use at Tewkesbury, where there is still the Lower Lode, at which a ferry over the Severn still exists; and there was also the Upper Lode, until a bridge was erected over the river at that place. Will this help to show its proper meaning?
I. R. R.
"To try and get" (Vol. ix., p. 76.).—Uneda inquires the origin of this erroneous mode of expression? Doubtless euphony, to avoid the alliteration of so many T's: "to the theatre to try and get," &c. But evidently the word to is understood, though not supplied after the word and. Thus, "to try and (to) get," &c.
Celcrena.
Abbott Families (Vol. ix. p. 105.).—In reply to Mr. Abbott's Query, I have a pedigree of Samuel Abbott, born in 1637 or 1638; second son of Wm. Abbott of Sudbury, who was born 1603, and who was son to Charles Abbott of Hawkden and Sudbury, an alderman, which Charles was son to Wm. Abbott of Hawkden. This Samuel married Margaret, daughter to Thomas Spicer. Should Mr. Abbott wish it, I would forward him a copy of the pedigree. I can trace no connexion between this family and that of Archbishop Abbott, whose father, Maurice Abbott of Guildford, was son of —— Abbott of Farnham, co. Surrey.
I wish especially to know what became of Thomas Abbott, only son of Robert, Bishop of Sarum; which Thomas dedicated his father's treatise against Bellarmine in 1619 to his uncle the Archbishop, calling himself in the preface, "imbellis homuncio." His sister was wife to Sir Nathaniel Brent, whose younger son Nathaniel left all his property to his cousin Maurice Abbott, of St. Andrew's, Holborn, Gent., in 1688; which Maurice was possibly son to Thomas.
G. E. Adams.
36. Lincoln's Inn Fields.
"Mairdil" (Vol. viii., p. 411.).—Is there any affinity between the word mairdil, which is used in Forfarshire, to be overcome with fatigue for any oppressive or intricate piece of work, and the word mardel or mardle, which signifies to gossip in Norfolk, as stated by Mr. J. L. Sisson? What will H. C. K. say to this subject? Jamieson confines mairdil to an adjective, signifying unwieldy; but I have often heard work-people in Forfarshire declare they were "perfectly mairdiled" with a piece of heavy work, using the word as a passive verb. Trachled has nearly the same meaning, but it is chiefly confined to describe fatigue arising from walking a long distance.
Henry Stephens.
Bell at Rouen (Vol. viii., p. 448.).—Your valuable correspondent W. Sparrow Simpson, B.A., has probably taken his account of the great bell in the cathedral at Rouen from a note made before the French Revolution of 1792-3, because the George d'Ambois, which was once considered the largest bell in Europe (it was thirteen feet high, and eleven feet in diameter), excepting that at Moscow, shared the destructive fate of many others at that eventful period, and was melted down for cannon. In 1814 the bulb of its clapper was outside the door of a blacksmith's shop, as you go out of the city towards Dieppe. It was pointed out to me by a friend with whom I was then travelling—a gentleman of the neighbourhood, who was at Rouen at the time it was brought there—and there, if I mistake not, but I cannot find my note, I saw it again within the last ten years.
H. T. Ellacombe.
Rectory, Clyst St. George.
Smiths and Robinsons (Vol. ix., p. 148.).—Arms of Smith of Curdley, co. Lancaster: Argent, a cheveron sable between three roses gules, barbed, vert seeded, or.
Robinson (of Yorkshire): Vert, a cheveron between three roebucks trippant or. Crest, a roebuck as in the arms. Motto, "Virtute non verbis."
Robinson of Yorkshire, as borne by Lord Rokeby: Vert, on a cheveron or, between three bucks trippant of the last, as many quatrefoils gules. Crest, a roebuck trippant or.
Cid.
Churchill's Grave (Vol. ix., p. 123.).—If I am not mistaken, there is a tablet to the memory of Churchill, with a more lengthy inscription, within the church of St. Mary, Dover, towards the western end of the south aisle.
W. Sparrow Simpson.