Afternoon Session

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Defendant has now had the opportunity of looking at the log of U-37. Was it not your practice in May 1940 to see personally the logs of all U-boats when they arrived?

DÖNITZ: I had the commanders of submarines report verbally to me every time. The logs, which arrived or were finished several weeks later or some time after the entries were made since they had to be written in the port, were only submitted to me by my Chief of Staff if they contained something special in addition to the verbal report.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you remember seeing the log of U-37 that was involved in this incident?

DÖNITZ: No.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Do you now observe that the Sheaf Mead was not sailing in convoy?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I know that. And I know that she was an armed ship and that, according to the orders which the commander had, he was justified in sinking her as an armed ship. It also appears from his log that he could not decide on firing the torpedo until he had ascertained that the ship was armed. That is very clearly expressed here.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: May I please explain to His Lordship that I am not on the question of sinking. I am on the question of survivors. Did you take any action with the U-boat commander, Kapitänleutnant Ernst, for not having assisted in the rescue of survivors?

DÖNITZ: No. But I did tell him that if he was on the spot where this rescue went on he should also have helped.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Was he not simply carrying out your Order 154 of November or December 1939?

DÖNITZ: No, he was not.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now...

DÖNITZ: I have already stated to which waters it applied and that it only applied to ships which were protected.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now, would you look at Page 34 in the English document book, Page 69 in the German document book. That is the report of the conversation between Hitler and Oshima, and you say that you were told nothing about it. Now I want you just to follow about halfway down, halfway through the extract, where it says:

“After having given further explanations on the map, the Führer pointed out that however many ships the United States built, one of its main problems would be the lack of personnel. For that reason merchant ships would be sunk without warning, with the intention of killing as many of the crew as possible. Once it gets around that most of the seamen are lost in the sinkings, the Americans would soon have difficulties in enlisting new people. The training of seagoing personnel takes a long time.”

Now, did you agree with that argument of Hitler’s that once it gets around that most of the seamen are lost in the sinkings, the Americans would soon have difficulties in enlisting new people? Did you think that that was a sound argument on the question of sea warfare against the United States?

DÖNITZ: I have already given my answer to that question in writing to the Foreign Office, and I clearly stated my opinion, which was that I did not believe that it would take a long time to train seamen, and that America had no lack of them. Consequently I would also not be of the opinion that this would serve as a deterrent if they had enough men.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So you do not agree with the Führer’s reasoning on that point?

DÖNITZ: No, I do not agree with the last part, namely, that there would be a shortage of seamen.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: No, it is the first point that I want your opinion on expressly: “Once it gets around that most of the seamen are lost in the sinkings, the Americans would soon have difficulties in enlisting new people.” That is, I suggest to you, that the new people would be scared off by the news of the sinking and killing of the first people. Did you agree that that was a sound argument? That is what I want your view on.

DÖNITZ: That is his personal point of view. Whether they would be scared off or not is an American matter which I cannot judge.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Would you look at your own document book, Volume I, Page 29 in the English version, which is your report to the Führer on 14 May 1942. Do you see the last sentence where you are advocating a range pistol? You say:

“A range pistol will also have the great advantage that the crew will not be able to rescue themselves on account of the quick sinking of the torpedoed ship. This greater loss of crews will no doubt cause difficulties for the assignment of crews for the great American construction program.”

DÖNITZ: It is perfectly clear, it is correct. If I have not got the old crews any more, I have to have new ones. It makes it more difficult. It says nothing about scaring off there, but the positive fact is stated that new crews have to be trained.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So are we to take it that you did not think that would have any frightening or terrorizing effect on the getting of new crews, if the old crews were sunk under conditions where they would probably lose their lives.

DÖNITZ: That is a matter of opinion, it depends on the courage, the bravery of the people. The American Secretary Knox said that if in peacetime—in 1941—the sinkings of German U-boats were not published he expected it would have a deterrent effect on my U-boats. That was his opinion. I can only say that the silent disappearance through American sinkings in peacetime did not scare off my U-boats. It is a matter of taste.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, on 14 May the Führer was pressing you to take action against the crews after the vessel was sunk. Is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Yes. He asked whether we could not take action against the crew and I have already said, after I heard of the Oshima discussion here, that I believe this question to Grossadmiral Raeder and myself was the result of that Oshima discussion.

My answer to that, of course, is known; it was “no.”

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Your answer was “no,” it would be far better to have a range pistol and kill them while they were still on the boat. That was your answer, was it not?

DÖNITZ: No. My answer was: Taking action against shipwrecked personnel is out of the question, but it is taken for granted that in a fight one must use the best possible weapon. Every nation does that.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, but the object of your weapon, as quite clearly set out, was that the crew would not be able to rescue themselves on account of the quick sinking of the ship. That is why you wanted to use the range pistol.

DÖNITZ: Yes. And also of course, because we considered the crews of the steamers as combatants since they were fighting with weapons.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, I am not going back to deal with that point again, but that was in your mind. Now, the Führer raised this point again on 5 September 1942, as is shown in your document book, Volume II, Page 81.

DÖNITZ: I do not have it. Where is it?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: It begins with the discussion in the OKW on 5 September 1942. It is Exhibit Dönitz-39, Page 81, and it is in the English document book, Volume II.

DÖNITZ: Yes, I have it now.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: It arises out of an incident of the sinking of the mine boat, Ulm, and there is a question of whether British destroyers had fired with machine arms on soldiers in lifeboats; and the Führer gave orders to the Naval Command to issue an order, according to which “our warships would use reprisals”; and if you look a little lower down, you will see that the matter had been investigated by your operations staff, and it is stated:

“It could not be proved beyond a doubt that the fire had been aimed at the crew boarding the lifeboats. The enemy fire was evidently aimed at the ship itself.”

Then you discuss the question of applying reprisals, at the foot of that page, and you say:

“It is the opinion of the Naval Operations Staff that before issuing reprisal orders, one should take into consideration whether such measures, if applied by the enemy against us, would not in the end be more harmful to us than to the enemy. Even now our boats are able only in a few cases to rescue shipwrecked enemy crews by towing the lifeboats, et cetera, whereas the crews of sunken German U-boats and merchant vessels have so far, as a rule, been picked up by the enemy. The situation could therefore only change in our favor if we were to receive orders, as a measure of reprisal, that shipwrecked enemy crews should not only not be saved, but that they should be subdued by fire. It is significant in this respect that so far it could not be proved that in the cases on record where the enemy used arms against shipwrecked Germans such action was the result of, or was covered by, an order of an official British agency. We should therefore bear in mind the fact that knowledge of such a German order would be used by enemy propaganda in such a manner that its consequences could not easily be foreseen.”

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Mr. President, I object against this manner of procedure. The document about which this cross-examination is being made is a document from me, and I have not submitted it yet. I do not know whether it is customary in this Trial that exhibits of the Defense are submitted by the Prosecution. For this reason I had suggested at the time to begin with the documentary evidence so that the Prosecution should also have an opportunity to use my exhibits in cross-examination.

THE PRESIDENT: Have you any objection to the document which is in your document book being offered in evidence?

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: I only want to avoid having my documents presented by the Prosecution in cross-examination because this upsets my entire documentary evidence. This particular case does not play a decisive role for me, but if the Prosecution proposes to present other documents of mine which have not yet been submitted, I should like to ask that the cross-examination be interrupted and I first be afforded an opportunity to submit my documents.

THE PRESIDENT: That will only waste time, will it not? It would not do any good; it would only waste time.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Mr. President, I do not think it would be a waste of time if I, as Defense Counsel, ask that I be allowed to submit my own documents to the Tribunal myself and that they shall not be quoted to the Tribunal by the Prosecution from my document book, because the manner of presentation and the questions asked by the Prosecution do, of course, give these documents a quite definite meaning.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kranzbühler, the Tribunal thinks there is no objection to the course that is being taken. You have had the opportunity already of putting this document to the witness. You will have a further opportunity of putting it to him again in re-examination.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So that there was fresh pressure put on you to take this course, that is, to fire on the crews of sunken vessels and that in September, was there not?

DÖNITZ: No, that is not correct. I only learned of this document of the naval war here; I was not under pressure, therefore; but it is true that, in accordance with this document, the Naval Operations Staff had apparently had orders from the OKW to compile a list of all such cases and that the Naval Operations Staff very correctly took the point of view that one would have to be very careful in judging these cases and that it advised against reprisal measures. It appears to me that the compilation of this document served to convince us that in principle one should keep away from these reprisal measures.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you know that on the instructions of Hitler the OKW had put through an inquiry to the naval war command on this point in September?

DÖNITZ: No, I did not know that. I just said I do not know about this entry in the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff and the appendix which is attached to it. I first heard of it here.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You first heard of it here?

DÖNITZ: I did not know about the entry in the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff. That was done in Berlin, and I was Commander of the Submarine Fleet in France at the time.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, if you tell the Tribunal that you did not know about it in September, then we will pass on to another document. That is what you say, that you did not know about it in September 1942?

DÖNITZ: No.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, I would just like you—I do not want to take you through the Laconia in any detail, but I want you just to tell me about one, I think, one or two entries. I think it is Page 40 of your own document book.

THE PRESIDENT: Is that not on Page 41?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I am very much obliged to Your Lordship.

[Turning to the defendant.] It is Page 41, at the bottom. It is on 20 September, 1320 hours. That is your wireless message to the U-boat Schacht. Do you see that?

DÖNITZ: Yes, and I explained that in great detail yesterday.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I just want to know: Is it true what is stated in your wireless message that the boat was dispatched to rescue Italian allies, not for the rescue and care of Englishmen and Poles? Is that true?

DÖNITZ: That is correct, because the vessel had reported to me that it had four boats in tow—and it says on Page 40, “...with British in tow.” It was clear, considering the whole situation, that a submarine with vessels in tow could not remain on the surface without the greatest danger to itself. Hence on Page 40 under heading 2 the order and the instructions given, “Boats with British and Poles to be cast adrift.” I wanted to get rid of the boats. That was the only reason. And it was only afterwards—Page 41—when a long radio message came from him, which in itself was a repetition but which was interpreted to mean that after the two air attacks had taken place he had again endangered his boat by stopping and picking up men, only then did he receive this wireless message, after it had gradually dawned on me—during the first four days, or perhaps three days, I had nothing against rescuing the British—that the Italians, who after all were our allies, were getting the worst of it, which indeed proved to be the case.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You have given a long explanation. Now, is that wireless message true, that the boat was dispatched to rescue Italian allies, not for the rescue and care of Englishmen and Poles? Is that true or not true?

DÖNITZ: Of course; this wireless message contained both instructions and it becomes unequivocally clear from these two instructions as well as from the impression I had that the British who were rescued far outnumbered the Italians, who were left to drown.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, there is one point I want you to make a little clearer. When you were interrogated about this matter, you said that you were under great pressure at the time; and, I think, that the pressure came to you from Hitler only through Captain Fricke. Is that right?

DÖNITZ: No, “only” is not correct. It was “also.” The pressure, as I have very clearly explained here, was due to worry and anxiety regarding the fate of my submarines, because I knew that they were now being greatly jeopardized. We had evidence of that already from the bombing attacks; secondly, of course, from the Führer’s orders which Fricke gave. But I have also stated here that in spite of that order, even if it was not militarily correct to act in this way, I continued rescuing. However, the pressure, my worry and anxiety, were mostly caused by the fate of the submarines themselves.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: So that at this time you had had the report to the Führer on 14 May; you had then had the Laconia incident, and during that incident you had had the pressure from the Führer. Now, was it not because of this...

DÖNITZ: I beg your pardon, but...

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Allow me to ask my question.

DÖNITZ: I think there is an error that has crept in here.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Very well, I will correct it. You had had the report to the Führer on 14 May. You have told me that. There was then the Laconia...

DÖNITZ: That has nothing to do with the Führer’s order in the case of the Laconia. In the case of the Laconia the Führer had given orders, and quite rightly, that no boats should be endangered by the rescue. That is something quite different from the subject of 14 May.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I am trying to assemble for the moment what matters you had to deal with. You had had the 14th of May, the Laconia incident, and then an order to stop, coming through from the Führer.

DÖNITZ: No, in the case of the Laconia incident I never thought at all of the order or of the discussion of 14 May with the Führer, and I could not, because that was an entirely different subject. This is quite another matter, here it was purely a matter of rescue. There is no connection whatsoever between the two.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: We will see about that. Turn to Page 36 in the British document book, or Pages 71 to 75 in the German document book.

Now, you have told us that what mainly concerned you was the safety of your own boats and of your own personnel.

DÖNITZ: Yes.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Why did you put into the order, “The elementary demands of warfare for the destruction of ships and crews are contrary to rescuing”? What was the point of putting these words in, unless you meant to encourage people to destroy enemy ships and crews?

DÖNITZ: I explained that in great detail yesterday. I preached during all these years: You must not rescue when your own safety is in danger. In the case of the Laconia I myself in my anxiety and worry wirelessed that to the troops many times. Apart from that, I found again and again that submarine commanders were taking the danger from the air too lightly. I also showed how that is to be explained psychologically. I described yesterday the overwhelming increase of the air force, and consequently in no circumstances would I have again given my people as a reason that, if there is danger from the air, or since you are being endangered from the air, et cetera, you must not rescue, or rescuing would be contrary to the elementary demands of warfare; because I did not want to leave it to my commanders to discuss whether there was danger from the air or not. After all my experience of the losses suffered and in view of the ever-present air force, which as history has shown was becoming stronger and stronger, I had to give a clear-cut order to the commanders based on that experience: “You cannot go on like that, or while we rescue the enemy we shall be attacked and killed by the enemy.” Therefore this reasoning must not enter into it. I did not wish to give the commanders another opportunity of deliberating or discussing. I told you already yesterday that I could have added, “If now, in view of the danger from the air, we are killed by that self-same enemy while rescuing him, then rescue is contrary to the elementary demands of warfare.” I did not want to do that, because I did not want any more discussion. We all had the impression that this refrain, “Do not rescue if there is danger from the air,” was outworn, because this would have meant that the commanders would nevertheless lose their liberty of action, and might slip into this thing.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But if you had simply said, “You are forbidden to rescue,” and if you had wanted to give a reason, “You are forbidden to rescue because in view of the Allied air cover it is a matter of too great danger for the safety of yourself and your boat ever to rescue at all,” that would have been quite clear. Why did you not put it that way?

DÖNITZ: No, that is just what I could not do. I have just said so, because some commander in some naval theater might get the idea that there was no danger from the air, and the next moment the plane would appear and he would be struck down. I have already said all that in reply to your suggestion.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, you had two experienced staff officers with you at the time that you got this order out—Captains Godt and Hessler, had you not?

DÖNITZ: Yes, that is right.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And both Captain Godt and Captain Hessler advised you strongly against the issue of this order, did they not?

DÖNITZ: As far as I can remember, they said something like this, “The bulk of the submarines”—I have said that here—“the bulk of the U-boats, that is, more than 90 percent of the U-boats, are already fighting the convoys, so that such an order is out of the question for them.”

That was the question: Should we issue such a general order at all, and would not the further developments which forced us all the time to issue new orders, namely, “Remain on the surface as little as possible,” make such an order superfluous? However, since I was responsible for warding off every possible danger to a submarine, I had to give this order and my staff agreed with me perfectly as far as this measure was concerned.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you not say when you were interrogated on 22 October and on other occasions: “Godt and Hessler told me, ‘Do not send this wireless message—you see, one day there may be a wrong impression about it; there may be a misinterpretation of that.’ ” Did you not say that?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I said that, and it is true too that such a remark may have been made. But it was not misinterpreted by the U-boats; nobody thought of that or we would not have issued the order. But we were thinking of the effects on the outside world.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And was not the effect that you wanted to produce: That you would have an order which could be argued was merely a prohibition of rescue, and would encourage the submarine commanders who felt that way to annihilate the survivors of the crews?

DÖNITZ: No, that is absolutely wrong, and it is also proved by the documents which we have submitted.

Apart from the Möhle case, nobody misunderstood this order and when we compiled the order we were aware of that fact. That becomes clear from the communications which we had with U-boat commanders, and it becomes clear from my searching inquiries when I asked whether they had in any way thought of that. The order does not show that at all, neither does the reason which led to it. The fact is that we were rescuing for all we were worth. The question was, “to rescue or not to rescue,” and nothing else. That is the key to the Laconia case.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You said that “we issued the order.” Do you remember saying this in an interrogation on 6 October: “I am completely and personally responsible for it, because Captains Godt and Hessler both expressly stated that they considered the telegram as ambiguous or likely to be misinterpreted.”

Do you remember saying that, “I am completely and personally responsible” because both your staff officers had pointed out that it was ambiguous? Did you say that?

DÖNITZ: I do not think so. I cannot think I said it that way. I am not sure, but I will say the following:

During the interrogation I was told that Captains Godt and Hessler made this order, and in reply to that I said, “It is quite immaterial, I am responsible for the order.” Moreover, the main point of discussion on that order was whether one ought to issue such an order. That it should ever have entered Captain Godt’s or Captain Hessler’s mind that such an order could be misunderstood by us—by the U-boats—is completely erroneous. I emphatically stated that, too, during the interrogation. I clearly stated that this consideration and the discussion of the question whether the order was to be issued or not had nothing whatever to do with it as far as these two gentlemen were concerned. That is quite clear; and that also was contained in the interrogation.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You were making clear that it was the first occasion. I made it clear that you were not blaming your junior officer who had advised you against this, and you were taking the responsibility on this occasion yourself. That is true, these junior officers advised you against it? In your own words, they both expressly stated that they considered the telegram ambiguous and liable to be misinterpreted; that is right, is it not, they did say that?

DÖNITZ: I did not see the discussion after it was put down, and I did not sign it. I can tell you quite clearly—and this is clear from another discussion—that I said that I myself will assume full responsibility. For me that was the essential thing. The only reason why the whole question came up was because the interrogating officer told me these officers had drafted the order, and then, as I recall it, the idea was that on no account should these officers be held responsible for my order. That was the point of the matter.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, at any rate, you are not changing what you said a few minutes ago that both Captain Godt and Captain Hessler advised you against issuing this order, are you?

DÖNITZ: According to my recollection, at first both advised against it. I have now heard that both are saying they did not advise against it, but that perhaps I or somebody else might have advised against it. I do not know for certain. I recollect that at first both advised me against issuing such an order at a time when 90 percent of our submarines were already engaged in fighting convoys and when we were being forced under the water anyway and it was absolutely impossible to make any more rescues since we were below the surface; and I said, “No; there will surely still be cases where such a thing can happen and where the commander will be faced with an awkward situation and in that case I want to relieve him of such a decision.” That was the reason and the meaning of the discussion, nothing else.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: We will continue. That is the first part of the order. Now take Paragraph 2, “Orders for bringing in captains and chief engineers still apply.” Now, Defendant, you know perfectly well that in order to find the captain or chief engineer, the U-boat has got to go around the lifeboats or wreckage and make inquiries, “Where is the captain?” And you know very well that the usual practice of the British merchant navy was to try and hide the captain and prevent them finding out who he was. Is that not the practical position that had to be met, that you had to go around the lifeboats asking for the captain if you wanted to bring him in? Is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Not exactly, no. I stated quite clearly yesterday that, first, the risk of taking aboard one man was much less as far as time was concerned, and would not limit the crashdiving ability of the boat, whereas rescuing activities would limit severely the crashdiving ability. Secondly, that that had a military aim ordered by the Naval Operations Staff for which, as is always the case in war, a certain risk would have to be taken; and, thirdly, that the significance of that paragraph appeared to all of us to be unimportant, the results being always poor. This order, if you want to construe it like this and take it out of its context, militates against your contention that I wanted to destroy these people; because I wanted to take prisoners, and if I intended to kill somebody first, then I certainly could not have taken him prisoner.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I am putting it to you that the second part of the order is that you are to bring in captains and chief engineers to find out what you can from them.

Look at the third paragraph: “Rescue ship crews only if their statements will be of importance for U-boats,” that is, of importance for you to learn from them the position of Allied ships or the measures the Allies are taking against submarines. That is the point against two and three, is it not? You are only to take prisoners if you can find out some useful thing from them?

DÖNITZ: I think it is taken for granted that we should try to get as much information as possible, and since I cannot take the whole crew as prisoners on a U-boat, I have to confine myself to the most important persons. Therefore I remove these people from further engagement, whereas the others may engage again. Of course, in view of the limited room on a U-boat, I do not take unimportant people but the important ones.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I do not want to take up a lot of time, but I want you to tell me this: Did I understand your explanation of the word “again” in the War Diary to be that you had drawn the attention of certain submarine commanders to your telegrams during the Laconia incident, is that your explanation?

DÖNITZ: No, it did not refer to U-boat commanders; and I believe the word “again,” as my staff says, referred to those four wireless messages which we have read as meaning this during the last few days and which were submitted to the Tribunal yesterday.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I put to you a moment ago a question and you said the “again” refers to the messages you sent out during the Laconia incident. I think you agree with that, do you not? Do not be afraid to agree with what I say. When was that?

DÖNITZ: Yesterday it was explained to me that there were four wireless messages, and I assumed that the person was summarizing the whole event, and that was probably his way of putting it. He was a chief petty officer and I do not know what he meant when he used the word “again.”

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now you say you had never heard of the Hitler and Oshima conversations which I put to you a few moments ago?

DÖNITZ: No.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Therefore, one may assume, may one not, that Lieutenant Heisig, who gave evidence, had not heard of the Hitler and Oshima conversations either; do you not think he could not have heard about it?

DÖNITZ: I assume it was out of the question.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you notice that Heisig said in his evidence that during a lecture he heard you put forward the same argument as Hitler put forward in his conversations with Oshima?

DÖNITZ: First of all I want to state that Heisig here in this witness box said something different from what he said during his interrogation. During cross-examination he has admitted here that I have not said anything about fighting against shipwrecked personnel; secondly, everything else he said is so vague that I do not attach much value to its credibility; thirdly, he stated quite clearly that I did not say this in a lecture but during a discussion, which is in itself of no importance; and fourthly, it may well be that the subject of America’s new construction program and the manning of the new ships by trained crews was discussed. It was possible during that discussion.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Do you now say you agree you never opened any discussion having reference to the American shipbuilding program and the difficulty of finding crews? Do you agree with Heisig on that?

DÖNITZ: The German press was full of that. Everybody read and knew about the shipbuilding program. Pictures were made...

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But the argument I am suggesting to you, you know, was that the building program would be useless if you could destroy or frighten off sufficient merchant navy crews. That is the point in Hitler’s conversation, and that Heisig said you said. Did you say that?

DÖNITZ: I have always taken the view that losses of crews would make replacement difficult, and this is stated in my war diary together with similar ideas, and perhaps I said something of the kind to my midshipmen.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Would you look at Page 37 of the Prosecution document book, Page 76 in the German translation? It is an order dated 7 October 1943 (Document Number D-663, Exhibit Number GB-200). I just want you to look at the last sentence: “In view of the desired destruction of ships’ crews, their sinking is of great value.”

DÖNITZ: I have read it.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: “In view of the desired destruction of ships’ crews, their sinking is of great value,” and it is continually pressing, the need for ships’ crews.

DÖNITZ: Yes, of course, but in the course of fighting. It is perfectly clear that these rescue ships were heavily armed. They had aircraft and could be sunk just like other convoy ships. If there were steamer crews on hand it was naturally our desire to sink them since we were justified in sinking such crews. Moreover they were used as U-boat traps near the steamers.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: On the question of the rightness or wrongness of sinking rescue ships, the destruction of ships’ crews, now, I want to ask you one or two questions about Möhle. He commanded the U-boat Flotilla from 1942 until the end of the war. That is nearly three years; and as he told us, he has a number of decorations for gallant service. Are you telling the Tribunal that Commander Möhle went on briefing submarine commanders on a completely mistaken basis for three years without any of your staff or yourself discovering this? You saw every U-boat commander when he came back.

DÖNITZ: I am sorry that Korvettenkapitän Möhle, being the only one who said he had doubts in connection with this order, as he declared here, did not report this right away. I could not know that he had these doubts. He had every opportunity of clearing up these doubts and I did not know, and nobody on my staff had any idea, that he had these thoughts.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, I have a letter here, a letter from a widow of one of your submarine commanders. I cannot get the commander and this is a letter from his widow. I want you to say what you think of a passage in it.

She says—in the second paragraph—“Captain Möhle says he has not found one U-boat commander who objected to the order to fire at helpless seamen who were in distress in the water.”

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: I object to the use of this letter. I think this is the sort of letter which cannot be used as an exhibit. It is not sworn, and it is a typical example of the kind of letter which Mr. Justice Jackson has already repeatedly characterized.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: The only point I make is this: The man himself has not come back. His widow can give information as to how he understood his orders before he went out. I should have submitted it with probative value. I think it occurs in Article 19. I will not use it if there is the slightest doubt about it before the Tribunal.

DÖNITZ: It is full of incorrect statements, too. It says there that he, Prien, died in a concentration camp, which is not true.

THE PRESIDENT: Wait just a minute.

DÖNITZ: It is not true.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Mr. President, I have only just finished reading the whole letter.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Tribunal is considering the matter at the moment.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: May I state one argument in this connection first?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, we have heard your argument and we are considering the matter.

The Tribunal thinks that it is undesirable and that this document should not be used.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: As Your Lordship pleases.

[Turning to the defendant.] Now I want to deal just for one moment with a passage in your own document book which Dr. Kranzbühler put to you yesterday. It is Volume II, Page 92, Exhibit 42. Before I ask you a question about it, there is one point that I would like you to help me on. In your interrogation you said that on 22 October that about two months after that order of 17 September you issued orders forbidding U-boats to surface at all. Is that right? You gave orders forbidding U-boats to surface, is that right?

DÖNITZ: So far as it is possible for a submarine not to do so at all. We were always making changes, day and night, and it depended upon the degree of danger and weather conditions whether we gave orders for the U-boats to surface and recharge when on the move.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: They were not to surface after attacks, were not to surface at all before or after attacks; is that not the effect of your order?

DÖNITZ: Of course submarines, for example at night, had to be on the surface for attacks, but the main thing was to avoid every risk when on the move.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Then two months later there was an order that they were to surface as little as possible, and you tell me it was your order?

DÖNITZ: As far as possible they were to try by all means to avoid danger from the air.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Did you give orders as to surfacing?

DÖNITZ: I gave them quite a number of orders, as I have already said, according to the weather, according to what part of the sea they were in, and whether it was day or night. The orders were different according to these factors, because the danger depended on these elements and varied accordingly. There were changes too; if we had bad experiences, if we found that night was more dangerous than day, then we surfaced during the day. We had the impression that in the end it was better to surface during the day, because then one could at least locate beforehand the aircraft attacking by direction-finding, so we changed.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But it is a fact that quite soon after this order the Allied air cover became so heavy that—I quote your own words; you say, “Two months later submarines were no longer in a position to surface.” That is, as I understood it, surfacing became very difficult in view of the heavy nature of Allied air attacks, is that right?

DÖNITZ: Yes, they did not have a chance to come to the surface in certain waters without being attacked immediately. That is just the point. The submarines were however in readiness, in the highest degree of readiness—and that is the big difference, for in rescue work readiness is disrupted; yet these heavy losses and difficulties occurred at the height of readiness.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now I want you to look at Page 93. It is the page after the one I referred you to in Volume II of your document book; do you see Paragraph 1?

DÖNITZ: Yes.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: “The percentage of merchant vessels sunk out of convoys in 1941 amounted to 40 percent; in the entire year of 1942 to barely 30 percent; in the last quarter of 1942 to 57 percent; in January 1943, to about 65 percent; in February to about 70 percent; and in March to 80 percent.”

Your worst period was the first three quarters of 1942, is that not so? That appears from your own figures.

DÖNITZ: Which “worst period”? What do you mean? I do not understand.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, it is Page 93, Paragraph 1.

DÖNITZ: Yes, but how do you mean, “worst period”?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, the percentage of sunk merchant vessels in convoys in 1941 amounted to 40 percent.

DÖNITZ: You mean merchant ships?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, I am reading your own war diary, or rather the naval war staff War Diary. “In the entire year of 1942 to barely 30 percent...”

DÖNITZ: From convoys?

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Convoys, yes. So that the worst period that you had was the first three quarters of 1942?

DÖNITZ: No. In 1942, as I have already said in my description of the entire situation, a large number of submarines were just outside the ports, they were off New York, off Trinidad, et cetera, so that they are not mentioned here. In this list only the sinkings carried out by those packs which were attacking the convoys in the North Atlantic are mentioned.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But is it not right that these figures mean that your worst period was the first three quarters of 1942? It must have been around 30 percent.

DÖNITZ: No, my most successful period was the year 1942.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, how can you call it the most successful period if for the entire year of 1942 your percentage of sunk merchant vessels in convoys is only 30 percent, whereas in January and February and March 1943, it got up to 65, 70, and 80 percent?

DÖNITZ: Quite right, that is so. Of the merchant ships sunk in 1942, 30 percent were sunk in the Atlantic, but the total figure was much larger than, for instance, in 1943, when 65 and 70 percent were sunk; and that is simply because at that time in 1943 we could no longer remain outside a port like New York. This indicates percentages of sinkings in the Atlantic from convoys only.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: You see what I am putting to you is this, that in 1942, when your percentage from convoys was low, when you had had that pressure that I have gone into with you before, there was every reason for you to issue an unequivocal order which would have the effect of getting submarine commanders to destroy the crews of the ships. In 1943 your U-boats were not surfacing, your convoy proportions had gone up, and there was not any reason to make your order more explicit. That is what I am suggesting to you, Defendant.

DÖNITZ: I consider that that is quite wrong.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now I just want to...

DÖNITZ: It was like this. As I already said, from the summer of 1942 onwards we found that the danger from the air suddenly increased. This danger from the air was making itself felt in all waters, also in those waters where submarines were not fighting convoys or were not fighting just outside the ports.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now I just want you to help me on one other point. Dr. Kranzbühler put to you yesterday that Kapitänleutnant Eck said that if he had come back he would not have expected you to have objected or been angry with him for shooting up the crew of the Peleus. You said you knew that Eck was carrying this order of yours in his locker when he did shoot up the crew of the Peleus?

DÖNITZ: Yes, but I also know that this order did not have the slightest effect on his decision but that, as Eck has expressly said, his decision was to shoot up the wreckage; and he had quite a different aim, namely, to remove the wreckage because he was afraid for his boat which would have been smashed to pieces just like other boats in those wakes. He stated clearly that there was no connection whatsoever in his mind between the order with reference to the Laconia, which he had on board quite accidentally, and his decision.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now you know there are two other cases before the Tribunal, the Noreen Mary and the Antonico, which are on Pages 47 and 52 of the Prosecution’s document book, where witnesses give specific evidence of the U-boat carrying out attacks on them when they are in one case on wreckage and in the other case in the lifeboat. Will you look at the Noreen Mary on Page 47 of the document book? The testament of the survivor is on Pages 49 and 50. He deals with this point; he says in the fourth paragraph—Page 85 of the German book...

DÖNITZ: I have the English document book.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: It is Page 50 of the English one; I have got the English document:

“I swam around until I came across the broken bow of our lifeboat, which was upside down, and managed to scramble on top of it. Even now the submarine did not submerge but deliberately steamed in my direction and when only about 60 to 70 yards away fired directly at me with a short burst from the machine gun. As their intention was quite obvious I fell into the water and remained there until the submarine ceased firing and submerged, after which I climbed back on to the bottom of the boat.”

The statement by the Brazilian gentleman you will find on Page 52. Have you got it?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I have got it.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Fifteen lines from the foot, he says, “...the enemy ruthlessly machine-gunned the defenseless sailors in Number 2 lifeboat...”

Assuming—of course one has to assume—that Mr. McAllister and Senhor de Oliveira Silva are speaking the truth, are you saying that these U-boat officers were acting on their own?

DÖNITZ: It is possible that the men might have imagined these happenings. I want to point out, however, that in a night fight—let us take the case of the Antonico first—which lasted 20 minutes, it could very easily have been imagined that these were shots, or that shots directed against the ship hit a lifeboat. At any rate, if someone makes a report on a night attack lasting 20 minutes, then it is a subjective report and everyone who knows how these reports vary, knows how easily a seaman can make a mistake. If, during such a night fight, the U-boat had wanted to destroy these people, then it would not have left after 20 minutes, particularly as the person states that he could not see the submarine in the darkness. These are certainly all very vague statements.

The case of the Noreen Mary is quite similar. A large number of statements are made in this deposition which certainly are not true; for instance, that the submarine bore a swastika. Not a single submarine went to sea painted in any way. If someone is on some wreckage or in a lifeboat and there are shots nearby, then he very easily feels that he is being shot at. It was for this very reason that quite a number of cases of the Anglo-American side have been mentioned by us; not because we wanted to make an accusation, but because we wanted to show how very skeptical one has to be regarding these individual reports.

And the only cases in 5½ years of war, during several thousand attacks, are the ones brought up here.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Yes, and of course for the 2½ of these years that the submarine commanders have been shooting up survivors, you are not likely to get many cases, are you? I just want to ask you one other point...

DÖNITZ: Submarine commanders with the exception of the case of Eck have never shot up shipwrecked persons. There is not a single instance. That is not true.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: That is what you say.

DÖNITZ: In no case is that proved. On the contrary, they made the utmost efforts to rescue. No order to proceed against shipwrecked people has ever been given the U-boat force, with the exception of the case of Eck, and for that there was a definite reason. That is a fact.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now, tell me this: Did you know that the log of the Athenia was faked, after she came in?

DÖNITZ: No, it was not faked, but there was a clear order that the case of the Athenia should be kept secret for political reasons and, as a result, the log had to be changed.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I see. You do not like the word “faked.” Well, I will use the word “changed”; that a page was cut out of the log and a false page had been put in. Did you know about that?

DÖNITZ: I cannot tell you that today. It is possible. Probably Captain Lemp received the order either from me or my staff: “The case is to be kept secret.” And following that, he or the flotilla took the log, which went to ten different departments of the Navy, and altered it. What else could he do? He could not do otherwise.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: I want to know, was it your order and with your knowledge that that log was altered from, I suppose, the truth into the falsity in which it exists today? That is a simple question. Can you answer it?

DÖNITZ: Yes. Either it was done by my order or, if it had not been done, then I would have ordered it, because the political instructions existed that “it must be kept secret.” The fighting men had no other choice, therefore, but to alter the log. The U-boat commanders never received the order to make a false entry, but in the particular case of the Athenia, where it was ordered afterwards that it must be kept secret, it was not noted in the log.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now I have only one other point to deal with you, and I can deal with it quite shortly. You were a firm adherent of ideological education for service personnel, were you not?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I have explained my reasons.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, I just want to get this, and then you can explain your reasons afterwards. You thought it nonsense that a soldier should have no politics, did you not? If you want to...

DÖNITZ: Of course. The soldier had nothing to do with politics; but, on the other hand, he naturally had to stand by his country during the war.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: And you wanted your commanders to indoctrinate the Navy with Nazi ideology, did you not?

DÖNITZ: I wanted the troops’ commanders to tell them that the unity of the German people as it existed then was a source of strength for our conduct of the war and that consequently, since we enjoyed the advantages of this unity, we also should see to it that the unity should continue, because during the World War we had had very bad experiences precisely because of that. Any lack of unity among the people would have necessarily affected the conduct of the war.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Look at Page 7 in the English document book (Document Number D-640, Exhibit Number GB-186). I think it puts it almost exactly as in my question. The last sentence:

“From the very start the whole of the officers’ corps must be so indoctrinated that it feels itself coresponsible for the National Socialist State in its entirety. The officer is the exponent of the State. The idle chatter that the officer is nonpolitical is sheer nonsense.”

That is your view, is it not?

DÖNITZ: I said that. But you have also got to read from the beginning, where it says that our discipline and our fighting strength is miles above that of 1918 and the reason is because the people as a whole are behind us, and if that had not been the case then our troops would have become disintegrated long ago; that is the reason why I said that.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Tell me, how many men were you attempting to apply this to, or how many men had you got in the Navy on the 15th of February 1944? I want to see what body you were trying to affect. How many? A quarter of a million?

DÖNITZ: 600,000 or 700,000.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Now, I would just like you to turn to the next page, Page 8 in the British document book, which gives your speech on Heroes’ Day, 12 March 1944. You say this:

“What would have become of our country today if the Führer had not united us under National Socialism? Split parties, beset with the spreading poison of Jewry, and vulnerable to it because we lacked the defense of our present uncompromising ideology, we would long since have succumbed under the burden of this war and delivered ourselves up to the enemy who would have mercilessly destroyed us.” (Document Number 2878-PS)

What did you mean by the “spreading poison of Jewry”?

DÖNITZ: I meant that we were living in a state of unity and that this unity represented strength and that all elements and all forces...

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: No, that is not what I asked. I am asking you, what did you mean by the “spreading poison of Jewry”? It is your phrase, and you tell us what you meant by it.

DÖNITZ: I could imagine that it would be very difficult for the population in the towns to hold out under the stress of heavy bombing attacks if such an influence was allowed to work, that is what I meant.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now, can you tell me again; what do you mean by the “spreading poison of Jewry?”

DÖNITZ: It means that it might have had a disintegrating effect on the people’s power of endurance, and in this life-and-death struggle of our country I, as a soldier, was especially anxious about this.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now, that is what I want to know. You were the Supreme Commander and indoctrinated 600,000 or 700,000 men. Why were you conveying to them that Jews were a spreading poison in party politics? Why was that? What was it that you objected to in Jews that made you think that they had a bad effect on Germany?

DÖNITZ: That statement was made during my memorial speech on Heroes’ Day. It shows that I was of the opinion that the endurance, the power to endure, of the people, as it was composed, could be better preserved than if there were Jewish elements in the nation.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: This sort of talk, “spreading poison of Jewry,” produced the attitude in the mind which caused the death of five or six million Jews in these last few years. Do you say that you knew nothing about the action and the intention to do away with and exterminate the Jews?

DÖNITZ: Yes, of course I say that. I did not know anything at all about it and if such a statement was made, then that does not furnish evidence that I had any idea of any murders of Jews. That was in the year 1943.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, what I am putting to you is that you are joining in the hunt against this unfortunate section of your community and leading six or seven hundred thousand of the Navy on the same hunt.

Now, just look at Page 76 of the document book in this last reference to you...

DÖNITZ: Nobody among my men thought of using violence against Jews, not one of them, and nobody can draw that conclusion from that sentence.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Well, now, just look at Page 76. This is where you are dealing with the promotion of under officers and men who have shown themselves to be personalities in warfare. You first of all say:

“I want the leaders of units responsible for ratings and the flotilla commanders and other commanders superior to them to interest themselves more in the promotion of those petty officers and men who have shown in special situations in the war that, thanks to their inner attitude and firmness, their energetic and inner drive, in short, owing to their personal qualities, they are capable of taking the right decisions independently and of carrying them out without wavering in their aim and with willing acceptance of responsibility.

“One example: On the auxiliary cruiser Cormoran, which was used as a place of detention in Australia, a warrant officer, acting as senior camp officer, had all communists who made themselves noticeable among the inmates of the camps systematically and unobtrusively done away with. This petty officer is sure of my full recognition for his decision and its execution; and after his return I shall do everything I can to promote him, as he has, shown he is fitted to be a leader.”

Was that your idea of leadership in this National Socialist indoctrinated Navy; that he should murder political opponents in a way that would not be found out by the guards?

DÖNITZ: No, it was not so. It has been reported to me that there was an informer there who, when new crews were brought in, was smuggled into the camp and, after listening around, passed information on to the enemy. The result was that on the strength of that information U-boats were lost. And it was then that the senior man in the camp, a petty officer, decided to remove that man as a traitor. That is what was reported to me and what I shall prove by a witness. In my opinion, and every nation will recognize that, the man acted like anyone else who finds himself in an extremely difficult situation and he had to...

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Why did you not say that, Defendant? If you had stated that this man had killed a spy, who by the spreading of information was dangerous, I would not have put this to you. But what you say is that it was communists who made themselves noticeable, and this man had killed them without knowledge of the guard. Why do you put communists in your order if you mean a spy?

DÖNITZ: I think this is an order from a Baltic station. I had been told that it concerned a spy, and it is something that a witness will prove. If there were reasons—perhaps intelligence reasons—for not divulging that...

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Are you putting the responsibility for this order on one of your junior officers? Are you saying it was one of your junior officers who put the order out like this? It was not what you meant at all? Is that what you are saying?

DÖNITZ: I have merely said how the order came about; up to now, I have not once shirked the responsibility.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: All right.

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn.

[A recess was taken.]

THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further cross-examination?

COLONEL POKROVSKY: My Lord, the Soviet Prosecution has several questions to ask the Defendant Dönitz.

[Turning to the defendant.] Defendant Dönitz, your address to the German people and your order to the Armed Forces in connection with Hitler’s death were drafted by you on 30 April 1945, is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Yes.

COL. POKROVSKY: In these documents you informed the people that Hitler’s successor, appointed by Hitler himself, was you. That is correct, is it not?

DÖNITZ: Yes.

COL. POKROVSKY: Did you ask yourself then for what particular reason Hitler selected you?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I put that question to myself when I received that telegram, and came to the conclusion that after the Reich Marshal had been removed, I was the senior officer of an independent branch of the Armed Forces, and that that was the reason.

COL. POKROVSKY: In your address to the Army and to the people, you demanded the continuation of military operations, and all those who were opposed to resistance were called traitors and cowards, is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Yes.

COL. POKROVSKY: A few days afterwards, you gave an order to Keitel to capitulate unconditionally, is that not right?

DÖNITZ: Yes. I said quite clearly in the first order that I would fight in the East until troops and refugees could be rescued from the East and brought to the West and that I would not fight one moment longer. That was my intention, and that is also clearly expressed in that order.

COL. POKROVSKY: By the way, there was not a word about it in this order, but that is not so important. Do you agree that on 30 April...

DÖNITZ: I...

COL. POKROVSKY: First listen to my question and then answer. Do you agree with the fact that on 30 April also, right on the day when you published the two documents that we are talking about now, it was absolutely clear that further resistance of Hitlerite Germany was absolutely aimless and useless?

Do you understand my question? Do you agree with that?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I understood the question. May I say the following: I had to continue fighting in the East in order to rescue the refugees who were moving to the West. That is certainly very clearly stated. I said that we would continue to fight in the East only until the hundreds and thousands of families from the German eastern area could be safely transferred to the West.

COL. POKROVSKY: Still you did not answer my question, Dönitz, did you, even though it was very clearly put. I repeat it once again so that you can manage to understand it. Do you agree with the fact that already on 30 April it was fully clear that further resistance of Hitlerite Germany was absolutely aimless and useless? Answer me “yes” or “no.”

DÖNITZ: No, that was not clear. From the military point of view the war was absolutely lost, and there was then only the problem of saving as many human beings as possible, and therefore we had to continue resistance in the East. Therefore that resistance in the East had a purpose.

COL. POKROVSKY: Very well, I understand you, but will you deny that your order, which called for a continuation of the war, led to further bloodshed?

DÖNITZ: That is extremely small, compared to the one or two millions which otherwise would have been lost.

COL. POKROVSKY: One moment, please; will you wait. Do not try and make any comparisons. First answer and then explain. That is the order that we have to follow here all the time. First “yes” or “no,” and then an explanation, please.

DÖNITZ: Of course, in the fighting in the East during those few days there might be further losses, but they were necessary in order to save hundreds of thousands of refugees.

COL. POKROVSKY: You did not answer my question. I shall repeat it for the third time.

THE PRESIDENT: He did answer; he said “yes,” that bloodshed would be caused. That is an answer to your question.

COL. POKROVSKY: Thank you.

[Turning to the defendant.] I would like you to explain exactly the question of whether you look upon yourself, first and foremost, as a politician, or do you look upon yourself as a soldier who obeyed direct orders of his own superiors without any analysis of the political meaning and content of such orders?

DÖNITZ: I do not understand that question completely. As head of State, from 1 May on, I was a political man.

COL. POKROVSKY: And before that time?

DÖNITZ: Purely a soldier.

COL. POKROVSKY: On 8 May 1946, at 1635 hours, in this room you mentioned, “As a soldier I did not have in mind such political considerations as might have been in existence.” On 10 May, at 1235 hours, here, you said, when the question of submarine warfare was taken up, “All this concerns political aims; but I, as a soldier, was concerned with military problems.” Is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Yes, it is quite correct. I said that before 1 May 1945 I was purely a soldier. As soon as I became the head of State I relinquished the High Command of the Navy because I became the head of State and therefore a political personality.

COL. POKROVSKY: Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe, about 15 minutes ago, addressed you also and referred to two documents, and in particular to Document GB-186, D-640; and he cited one sentence from this, one sentence which grossly contradicts what you said just now. You remember this sentence “idle chatter”?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I know exactly what you mean.

COL. POKROVSKY: I want to ask you: How can you reconcile these two extremely contradictory statements, the statement about “idle chatter,” about the fact that the officer is not a politician. This statement took place on 15 February 1944, at the time when you were not the supreme head of the State. Is that not so?

DÖNITZ: If a soldier during the war stands firmly behind his nation and his government, that does not make him a politician; that is said in that sentence and that was meant by that sentence.

COL. POKROVSKY: All right. We will be more exact about whether this is really the fact. Several times, in a very definite manner, you testified here before the Tribunal that for many years before the war and during the war you were indoctrinating the Navy in the spirit of pure idealism and firm respect for the customs and laws of war. Is that so?

DÖNITZ: Right; yes.

COL. POKROVSKY: In particular, on 9 May, yesterday, at 1254 hours, you said, “I educated the submarine fleet in the pure idealism and I continued such education during the war. It was necessary for me in order to achieve high fighting morale.” Five minutes later on the same day, you said, when speaking about the Navy, “I never would have tolerated that orders were given to these people which would be contradictory to such morale, and it is out of the question that I myself could have given such an order.” You acknowledge that those were your words, or approximately your words, allowing for the possible inexactness of translation; is that not so?

DÖNITZ: Of course, that is what I said.

COL. POKROVSKY: I would like you to take a look at the document which is in your possession now, the document presented by your defense counsel as Dönitz-91. In this document your defense counsel presents an excerpt from the testimony, the affidavit made by Dr. Joachim Rudolphi. In order not to waste the Tribunal’s time, I would like you to tell us briefly in one word, “yes” or “no,” whether Rudolphi is correct in his testimony; that you always strongly opposed the introduction into the German Armed Forces of the Hitlerite so-called “People’s Courts.” Did you understand me?

DÖNITZ: I was against handing over legal cases from the Navy to other courts. I said that, if one bears the responsibility for a branch of the Armed Forces, one also must have court-martial jurisdiction. That is what it says.

COL. POKROVSKY: And you are familiar with Rudolphi’s affidavit?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I know it.

COL. POKROVSKY: You remember that on the first page of that excerpt presented to the Tribunal it says:

“Early in the summer of 1943, the first threatening attempt to undermine the nonpolitical jurisdiction of the Armed Forces was made.”

Is Rudolphi correct in explaining this question and is it true that you were against this attempt to introduce special political courts into the Navy and Armed Forces? Is that correct?

DÖNITZ: According to my recollection, my resistance began in the summer 1943. It may be that already in the spring the jurisdiction of the Wehrmacht was threatened. That may be, but I did not learn of it.

COL. POKROVSKY: Do you acknowledge, Dönitz, or not, that these so-called “People’s Courts” were to deal, as Rudolphi puts it, with anything that smacked, even remotely, of politics? That is his sentence which you can find on the first page of Document D-91.

DÖNITZ: As I have already stated, my point of view was the following: I wanted to keep my soldiers under my own jurisdiction. I could not judge proceedings outside the Navy, because I did not know the legal procedure. My point was that my soldiers should remain with me and be sentenced by me.

COL. POKROVSKY: For all kinds of crimes, including political crimes, is that not so? Did I understand you correctly?

DÖNITZ: Yes, I meant that; I have stated that I was of the opinion that they should remain under Navy jurisdiction.

COL. POKROVSKY: Will you deny, Dönitz, that you were always preaching and always encouraging in every way the murder of defenseless people from among the members of the German Armed Forces for purely political reasons and that you always looked upon such murders as acts of military valor and heroism?

DÖNITZ: I do not understand you. I do not know what you mean.

COL. POKROVSKY: You did not understand my question?

DÖNITZ: No, I have not understood the meaning of your question at all.

COL. POKROVSKY: I can repeat it. Perhaps it will be clearer to you. I am asking you: Will you deny the fact that you preached in favor of the murder of members of the German Armed Forces, by other members of the German Armed Forces and purely for political reasons? Now, is the question clear to you?

DÖNITZ: How do you come to ask this question?

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal does not find your question quite clear.

COL. POKROVSKY: What I have in mind, My Lord, is the Order Number 19 for the Baltic Fleet, which in part was dealt with by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe. There is one point of this order which elucidates, with absolute precision, the motives for publishing and promulgating this order. One idea is expressed there in a very clear manner—and with your permission I shall read one paragraph from this document. “One example”—it says in Order Number 19, last paragraph but one—“On the auxiliary cruiser Cormoran, which was used as a place of detention in Australia a warrant officer...”

THE PRESIDENT: Which paragraph?

COL. POKROVSKY: The last paragraph but one of Document D-650, Page 4 of the English text. I beg your pardon, Page 4 of the German text, and the last paragraph on the third page of the English copy.

THE PRESIDENT: It was read already in cross-examination.

COL. POKROVSKY: This particular part was not read in the cross-examination, and it is really very important for the case.

THE PRESIDENT: We have just heard this very question, this very example, read by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe, not half an hour ago.

COL. POKROVSKY: But Sir David, in reading this example, did not read one particular sentence which is of great importance to me and which clarifies Dönitz’ position; and that is the reason why I permitted myself to come back to this particular passage. It is only one sentence which interests me.

THE PRESIDENT: What sentence are you referring to?

COL. POKROVSKY: The first sentence in the second paragraph from the end. It is the paragraph which begins, “One example: In a prisoner-of-war camp...”

THE PRESIDENT: You are entirely wrong. He read the whole of the paragraph. Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe read the whole of the paragraph.

COL. POKROVSKY: When, with your permission, I shall read these few words, then you will convince yourself, Sir, that these particular words were not read.

THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Pokrovsky, I have a note in my notebook made at the time, which shows that the whole of this was read; that the defendant was cross-examined about the meaning of the word “communist”; and that he explained it by saying that he was referring to a spy among the crew who might give away submarine secrets. The whole matter was gone into fully by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe, and the Tribunal does not wish to hear any more about it.

COL. POKROVSKY: It is absolutely necessary for me to read two expressions from this sentence which were not read into the record here, and I ask your permission to read these two words.

THE PRESIDENT: Which two words do you say were not read? State the two words.

COL. POKROVSKY: “Systematically” and “unobtrusively,” that is, according to plan. They are not talking about one particular instance, but they are talking about the whole definite plan, about the system.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but that was all read, Colonel Pokrovsky. You must have missed it.

COL. POKROVSKY: I am not saying that Sir David has omitted that.

THE PRESIDENT: That was read by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe and put to the witness, to the defendant.

COL. POKROVSKY: Perhaps Sir David may have accidentally omitted this, but it is really very important for me, because Dönitz testified here to the killing of only one spy; but what is really meant here is that there was a plan to exterminate all communists, or rather men who were supposed to be communists, according to the idea of some petty officer.

THE PRESIDENT: It is exactly what Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe put to the witness. He said, “How can you say that this refers to a case of spies or one spy, when it is referring to all communists”? It is exactly the question he put to him.

COL. POKROVSKY: Perhaps I did not understand quite correctly what our interpreter translated, but in our translation this was not mentioned.

Then with your permission I will go to the next question.

[Turning to the defendant.] Will you deny, Dönitz, that in this order, as the one example of high military valor—that military valor which serves as the basis or the reason for extraordinary promotion of noncommissioned officers and officers—you used, as one example, the treacherous and systematic murder of people for political reasons? Do you deny that this order was correctly understood?

DÖNITZ: No, that is quite wrong. This order refers to one incident in a prisoner-of-war camp, and it should be considered in what serious dilemma the senior member of the camp found himself and that he acted in a responsible and correct manner by removing in the interests of our warfare as a traitor that communist who was at the same time a spy. It would have been easier for him if he had just let things take their course, which would have harmed the U-boats and caused losses. He knew that after his return home he would have to account for it. That is the reason why I gave this order.

COL. POKROVSKY: Perhaps you will agree that the incidents, as you explain them now, are absolutely different from what is written in your order.

THE PRESIDENT: I have already told you that the Tribunal does not wish to hear further cross-examination upon this subject. You are now continuing to do that, and I must draw your attention again clearly to the ruling of the Tribunal that the Tribunal will not hear further cross-examination upon this subject.

COL. POKROVSKY: In the light of this document, I ask you how do you explain your statements about your alleged objections in principle to special political courts being introduced into the Navy, that is, the considerations in principle which were testified to by Dr. Rudolphi? How do you explain this contradiction?

DÖNITZ: I did not understand what you said.

COL. POKROVSKY: You say here that the document does not deal with political acts, whereas the order is formulated very precisely and Dr. Rudolphi testified to the fact that you were against introducing political courts into the Army and the Navy. Obviously there is a contradiction in terms here, and I would like to have this contradiction explained.

DÖNITZ: I do not see any contradiction, because Dr. Rudolphi says that I was against handing over legal cases to courts outside of the Navy and because the case of the Cormoran deals with an action by the senior camp member, far away in a prisoner-of-war camp in a foreign land. He decided on this action only after grave deliberation, knowing that at home he would have to answer for it before a military court. He did this because he considered it necessary, in the interests of the conduct of the war, to stop the loss of submarines by treason. Those are two entirely different things. Here we deal with an individual case in the Cormoran camp.

COL. POKROVSKY: What you are testifying to now is a repetition of what you said before; and, as you heard, the Tribunal does not want to listen to it any more. This is really not an answer to my question.

DÖNITZ: Yes. In answering your question I cannot say anything but the truth, and this is what I have done.

COL. POKROVSKY: Of course our ideas of truth may be altogether different. I, for instance, look upon this question in an altogether different manner. This fact...

DÖNITZ: Will you excuse me. I am under oath here, and you do not want to accuse me of telling an untruth, do you?

COL. POKROVSKY: We are not talking about false testimony, but we are talking about a different approach to the idea of truth. I, for instance, consider that by this order you revealed yourself as a real...

DÖNITZ: No, I cannot agree with that.

THE PRESIDENT: Will you kindly put the question if you want to put a question?

COL. POKROVSKY: I want to ask him one question, My Lord, and I must explain to him why I am asking this question.

[Turning to the defendant.] I consider this order a revelation of your loyalty, your fanatical loyalty, to fascism; and in this connection I want to ask you whether you consider that it was because of the fact that you showed yourself to be a fanatical follower of fascism and fascist ideas that Hitler chose you to be his successor—because you were known to Hitler as a fanatical follower who was capable of inciting the Army to any crime in the spirit of the Hitlerite conspirators and that you would still call these crimes pure idealism. Do you understand my question?

DÖNITZ: Well, I can only answer to that that I do not know. I have already explained to you that the legitimate successor would have been the Reich Marshal; but through a regrettable misunderstanding a few days before his appointment, he was no longer in the game, and I was the next senior officer in command of an independent branch of the Wehrmacht. I believe that was the determining factor. That fact that the Führer had confidence in me may also have had something to do with it.

COL. POKROVSKY: The Soviet Prosecution, My Lord, has no more questions to ask of this defendant.

THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kranzbühler, do you want to re-examine?

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: I should like to put a few more questions, Mr. President.

[Turning to the defendant.] Admiral, during the cross-examination by Sir David you were asked about your knowledge of conditions in concentration camps; and you wanted to make an additional statement, which you could not do at the time. What personal connections did you have with any inmates of concentration camps, or did you have any connections at all?

DÖNITZ: I had no connections with anybody who had been sent to a concentration camp; with the exception of Pastor Niemöller. Pastor Niemöller was a former comrade of mine from the Navy. When my last son was killed, he expressed his sympathy; and on that occasion I asked him how he was.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: When was that?

DÖNITZ: That was in the summer of 1944, and I received the answer that he was all right.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Did you write him directly, or how did it happen?

DÖNITZ: No. I received this information through a third person.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Was that the only message you received from a concentration camp?

DÖNITZ: The only one I received.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: In the cross-examination a report by Captain Assmann was presented about a conference with the Führer in May 1943. You remember its contents. You are alleged to have said that in view of the present naval war situation, it was desirable that Germany should get possession of Spain and Gibraltar. Did you make a positive suggestion in that direction? One cannot see that from the document.

DÖNITZ: Of course, when I discussed the situation, I mentioned the danger of the narrow strip along the Bay of Biscay; and I said that it would be more favorable to us if we could start our U-boats from a wider area. At that time nobody even contemplated a move against Spain, either with the consent of Spain or in the form of an attack. It was quite obvious that our forces were in no way sufficient for that. On the other hand, it is quite understandable that, in showing my concern about that narrow strip, I should say that it would have been better if the area had been larger. That is what I meant by that statement. I was referring to U-boat warfare and not to any move against Spain on land. It certainly would have been impossible for me as a naval officer to make a suggestion to attack Spain.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: In connection with the sinking of the Athenia it has been hinted that your statement was considered an excuse; that is, that the commanding officer of the submarine confused the Athenia with an auxiliary cruiser. Therefore, I should like to put to you an excerpt from the war diary of the officer commanding in that action and I want you to confirm that it is really by the same commanding officer. I shall read from the document of the Prosecution, Exhibit GB-222, on Page 142 of my document book, Volume III. It is the war diary of the submarine U-30. The excerpt is dated 11 September 1939, Page 142 in document book, Volume III.

“Sighted a blacked-out vessel. Got on its trail. In zigzag course recognized as merchant ship. Requested to stop by morse lantern. Steamer signals ‘not understood,’ tries to escape in the thick squall and sends out SOS ‘chased by submarine’ and position by radiotelegraphy.

“Gave ‘stop’ signal by radio and morse lantern.

“Ran ahead. First 5 shots with machine gun C/30 across the bow. Steamer does not react. Turns partly, about 90°, directly toward the boat. Sends ‘still chased.’ Therefore, fire opened from aft bearing with 8.8 cm. English steamer Blairlogie, 4,425 tons.

“After 18 shots and three hits, steamer stops. Crew boards boats. Last message by radio, ‘Shelled, taking to boats.’ Fire immediately ceased when emergency light was shown and steamer stopped.

“Went over to lifeboats, gave orders to pull away toward south. Steamer sunk by torpedo. Afterwards both boat crews supplied with Steinhäger and cigarettes. 32 men in two boats. Fired red stars until dawn. Since American steamer, American Skipper, was nearby, we departed. Crew was rescued.”

Can you confirm, Admiral, that this was an entry by the same commanding officer who nine days before had torpedoed the Athenia?

DÖNITZ: Yes, that is the same commander of the same operation who shortly before had committed this error.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: In the cross-examination it was once more maintained, and very definitely, that you had sent an order to destroy to the commanders. I should like to put to you a letter which is signed by various U-boat commanders. You know the letter and know the signatures, and I should like to ask you to tell me whether the U-boat commanders who signed were taken prisoner before September 1942, that is, before your alleged orders to destroy, or whether they were captured afterwards.

I am reading from the document book, Volume II, Page 99, Dönitz-53, which I submit to the Tribunal. It is addressed to the camp commander of the prisoner-of-war camp, Camp 18, in the Featherstone Park camp in England. I received it through the British War Ministry and the General Secretary of the Court. I read under the date of 18 January 1946, and the text is as follows:

“The undersigned commanders, who are now here in this camp and whose U-boats were active on the front, wish to make the following statement before you, Sir, and to express the request that this statement should be forwarded to the International Military Tribunal in Nürnberg.

“From the press and radio we learn that Grossadmiral Dönitz is charged with having issued the order to destroy survivors from the crews of torpedoed ships and not to take any prisoners. The undersigned state under oath that neither in writing nor orally was such an order ever given by Grossadmiral Dönitz. There was an order that for reasons of security of the boat, because of increased danger through defense measures of all kinds, we were not to surface after torpedoing. The reason for that was that experience had shown that if the boat surfaced for a rescue action, as was done in the first years of the war, we had to expect our own destruction. This order could not be misunderstood. It has never been regarded as an order to annihilate shipwrecked crews.

“The undersigned declare that the German Navy has always been trained by its leaders to respect the written and unwritten laws and rules of the sea. We have always regarded it as our honor to obey these laws and to fight chivalrously while at sea.”

Then come the signatures of 67 German submarine commanders who are at present prisoners of war in British hands.

I ask you, Admiral—you know these signatures—were these commanders captured before September 1942 or after September 1942?

DÖNITZ: Most of them beyond doubt were made prisoner after September 1942. In order to examine that exactly from both sides, I should like to see the list again. But most of them beyond doubt were captured after September 1942.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: That is enough. I have no further questions.

DR. LATERNSER: Mr. President, I should like to clarify only one point which came up during the cross-examination.

Admiral, during the cross-examination you have stated that you were present at the situation conferences on 19 and 20 February 1945, and you said...

DÖNITZ: No, that this date...

DR. LATERNSER: I made a note of it and you will recognize the conference at once. During the situation conference of 19 February, Hitler is alleged to have made the suggestion to leave the Geneva Convention. I ask you now to tell me: Which high military leaders were present during that situation conference?

DÖNITZ: I believe there is a mistake here. I did not hear this question or suggestion of the Führer from his own lips, but I was told about it by a naval officer who regularly took part in these situation conferences. Therefore I do not know for certain whether the date is correct, and I also do not know who was present when the Führer first made that statement. In any case, I remember the matter was again discussed the next day or two days later; and then I believe the Reich Marshal, and of course Jodl and Field Marshal Keitel, were present. At any rate, the whole of the Wehrmacht were unanimously against it; and to my recollection, the Führer, because he saw our objection, did not come back to this question again.

DR. LATERNSER: Thank you. I have no further questions.

THE PRESIDENT: The defendant can return to the dock.

[The defendant left the stand.]

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Mr. President, after the experience of the cross-examination of today, I consider it proper to submit my documents to the Tribunal now, if it pleases the Tribunal, before I call further witnesses. I believe that I can thereby shorten the questioning of the witness and that it will be more easily understood.

THE PRESIDENT: Very well, Dr. Kranzbühler.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: May I first remind the Tribunal that the Prosecution Exhibits GB-224 and GB-191 contain the same general accusations against U-boat warfare as are referred to in many of my following documents. The documents dealing with these general accusations are in Document Books 3 and 4.

First, I submit Document Dönitz-54 which contains the German declaration of adherence to the London Submarine Protocol. I do not need to read it because it has already been mentioned repeatedly.

Then, I ask the Tribunal to take judicial notice of the German Prize Ordinance, an excerpt of which can be found on Page 137. I should like to point out that Article 74 agrees word for word with the regulations of the London Protocol.

May I point out at the same time that, as shown on Page 138, this Prize Ordinance was not signed by the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. That is a contribution to the question as to whether the Commander-in-Chief of the Navy was a member of the Reich Government. He had no authority to sign this ordinance.

The next document which I submit is Dönitz-55. That is the order of 3 September 1939, with which the U-boats entered the war. I do not know whether these documents are so well known to the Tribunal that I need merely sum them up or whether it is better to read parts of them.

THE PRESIDENT: I think you might mention them together, really, specifying shortly what they relate to.

FLOTTENRICHTER KRANZBÜHLER: Yes. The order of 3 September directs the boats to pay strict attention to all the rules of naval warfare. It orders the war to be conducted according to the Prize Ordinance. Furthermore, it provides for a preparatory order for the intensification of economic warfare, because of the arming of enemy merchant ships. This order is on Page 140. Since I shall refer to that later when examining a witness, I need not read it now.

I should like to read to the Tribunal from an English document, to show that the boats were really acting according to these orders. It is Exhibit Number GB-191. It is in the original on Page 5, Mr. President. That sentence is not in the English excerpt, and that is why I will read it in English from the original:

“Thus the Germans started with the Ordinance which was, at any rate, a clear, reasonable, and not inhuman document.

“German submarine commanders, with some exceptions, behaved in accordance with its provisions during the first months of the war. Indeed, in one case, a submarine had ordered the crew of a trawler to take to their boat as the ship was to be sunk. But when the commander saw the state of the boat, he said: ‘Thirteen men in that boat! You English are no good, sending a ship to sea with a boat like that.’ And the skipper was told to re-embark his crew on the trawler and make for home at full speed, with a bottle of German gin and the submarine commander’s compliments.”

That is an English opinion taken out of a document of the Prosecution.

My next document is Dönitz-56, an excerpt from the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff of 9 September 1939, on Page 141.

“English information office disseminates the news through Reuters that Germany has opened total U-boat warfare.”

Then, as Dönitz-57, on Page 143, I should like to submit to the Tribunal an account of the experiences which the Naval Operations Staff had in U-boat warfare up to that date. It is an entry of 21 September 1939 in the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff. I read under Figure 2:

“The commanders of U-boats which have returned report the following valuable experiences:

“...(b) English, partly also neutral steamers, sharp zigzags, partly blacked-out. English steamers, when stopped, immediately radio SOS with exact position. Thereupon English planes come in to fight U-boats.

“(c) English steamers have repeatedly tried to escape. Some steamers are armed, one steamer returned fire.

“(d) Up to now no cases of abuse by neutral steamers.”

The document on Page 144 of the document book is already in evidence. It is an excerpt from Exhibit GB-222, war diary of the U-boat U-30, of 14 September. I will only read a few sentences from the beginning:

“Smoke clouds. Steamer on sharp zigzag course. Easterly course. Ran towards her. When recognized, turns to counter-course and signals SOS.

“English steamer Fanad Head, 5200 tons, bound for Belfast.

“Pursued at full speed. Since steamer does not react to order to stop, one shot fired across her bows from a distance of 2,000 meters. Steamer stops. Crew takes to the boats. Boats pulled out of the danger zone.”

I summarize the following: It shows how the U-boat, as a result of the wireless message from the steamer, was attacked by airplanes, what difficulties it had in getting the prize crew on board again, and how, in spite of the bombing attacks of the planes, it did not sink the steamer until two English officers who were still on deck had jumped overboard and had been rescued by the U-boat. The depth charge pursuit lasted for ten hours.

The next document, Dönitz-58, shows that merchant ships acted aggressively against U-boats; and that also is an excerpt from the War Diary of the Naval Operations Staff. I read the entry of 24 September:

“Commander, Submarine Fleet, reports that on 6 September the English steamer Manaar, on being told to stop by U-38 after a warning shot, tried to escape. Steamer sent wireless message and opened fire from rear gun. Abandoned ship only after four or five hits, then sank it.”

Then, another message of 22 September:

“English reports that, when the English steamer Akenside was sunk, a German U-boat was rammed by a steam trawler.”

From the document of the Prosecution, Exhibit GB-193, which is copied on Page 147, I should only like to point out the opinion from the point of view of the Naval Operations Staff as to radio messages. I read from Figure 2, two sentences, beginning with the second:

“In almost every instance English steamers, on sighting U-boats, have sent out wireless SOS messages and given their positions. Following these SOS messages from the ship, after a certain time English airplanes always appeared which makes it clear that with the English it is a matter of a military measure and organized procedure. The SOS call together with the giving of the position may therefore be considered as the giving of military information, even as resistance.”

The next document, Dönitz-59, shows the approval of the entry submitted by the Commander of the Submarine Fleet that ships which used their wireless when stopped should be sunk. I read the entry of 24 November 1939. It is quite at the bottom, Figure 4:

“On the basis of the Führer’s approval, the following order is given to Groups and Commander, Submarine Fleet:

“4) Armed force should be employed against all merchant vessels using wireless when ordered to stop. They are subject to seizure or sinking without exception. Efforts should be made to rescue the crew.”

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn.

[The Tribunal adjourned until 11 May 1946, at 1000 hours.]


ONE HUNDRED
AND TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY
Saturday, 11 May 1946