Records of the Kirk of Scotland / containing the Acts and Proceedings of the General Assemblies from 1638 downwards, as authenticated by the clerks of assembly.

by Church of Scotland. General Assembly

Lowdoun said—I perceave the maine objection against the voiting of the Ruleing Elders is yet urged, and their ignorance to judge in matters that are to be handlit heir; therefore I offer heir to dispute, that the office of a Ruleing Elder is warranted by the word of God, practise of uther Kirkes, and lawes and practise of our owne Kirk, and referris the decision of the question to the Assembly as the only competent Judge. The question is alreadie dispute heir be Doctor Balcanquell, and it is grantit from the testimony of the Synod of Dort, that Elders have voit in matters of faith, and matters of discipline and order; and where it is objected that these Elders at the Synod of Dort were learned and judicious men, able to dispute and treate of the greatest matters in the Latine tongue, and these heir assembled are not such for the greater pairt, I answer, it is not alwayes men of the greater place and learning who bring foorth clearest light in matters that concerne religion. There are heir a number of Gentlemen and burgesses of the lowest sort, trained up at schooles and colledges, taught all the grounds of religion, and able to decerne trueth when it is pointed forth; therefore—seeing be the lawes and practice of this Kirke, such hath beene in use to voit before, and we have offered to dispute the matter yet more—referring the decision of the question to this Assembly, we hope there is enough said for clearing of our power.

The Commissioner said—It is hard for me to make answer for everie speach of such a number of learned and understanding men. But, as I remember, Doctor Balcanquell said not that the Elders of the Synod of Dort had voice in matters of faith.

My Lord Lowdoun answered—It is true the Doctor made a distinctione of more and les fundamental poyntes of faith. But that Synod did determine what was more fundamentall and what was less fundamentall poyntes of faith; and it is clearlie proven that the Elders had voit in all matters proponed their.

The Moderatour said to Doctor Balcanquell—Let the question be yet stated and agitat; for the question now in hand is not, whether the office of Ruleing Elders be warranted by the word of God—which I thinke none will deny—but the question is, whether the Elders, according to the Acts of Assembly and Customes of this Kirk, hes place to voice heir? And if ye, or any, will be pleased to conferre or dispute the question, we are ready for it. The Convocation House of England would not be content that any should say, “Your Church is not weill constitut;” far les can we heare it said to us; therefore we would be glad to heare what ye have to say in this question; and if the Commissioners Grace would stay, we trust he shall heare this and many uther questiones discussed.

My Lord Rothes said—The Commissioner seemes to take speciall notice of that expression which was in the Letters from Edinburgh, called the Tables; as if the Letters from these Tables did import a judicatorie; therefore I desyre to cleare it. When great numbers were conveined in Edinburgh from the sense of evills lying in this Kirk, and wer joyning together in putting up a supplication to the Lords of Counsell, my Lord Thesaurer taxed us for such numerous Convocations, quhilk as the Convocation was out of love to Religion, which seemed to be in hazard, and therefore everie man having onie particular interest, conveened: we answered, that such a Convocation behoved either to be, or Commissioners in their name; and your Grace desyred that when ye came to Edinburgh, that the toune might be emptied of such multitudes; and your Grace ordained that the schires should convene be their Commissioners: therefore, when the Commissioners from schyres and presbitries mett, and sett downe, what absurditie is in it, to call them so mett, “a Table,” seeing it is not called a Counsell Table, or a Judiciall Table, such as the Prelats called their Tables? If we called it a Judiciall Table, let us be hanged for it. A taylors table, sitting with his men sewing about it—so called a Table—or a company eating at such a mans table, there is no absurditie in the speache; and we did not call ourselves “The Tables,” but uthers gave it that name.

The Commissioner said—I except not much against the name of Table; neither have I spoken any thing in passion against it, albeit I be naturallie passionat; yet I thank God there hes not much passion escaped me heir. I have no caus of passion to heare these Meetings called a Table; for there is passion enough at my heart, that I find so much power at these Tables, and so little at the Counsell Table—for it is weill knowen, your positive Counsells are more regarded nor the Kings Counsell Table. But I forebeare to speake more. I could bring foorth many moe just causes and exceptions against your proceedings, but I know they will be to no end; for I feare your prejudged opinion of all that I can say.

My Lord Rothes desyred that his Grace would bring foorth any one instance wherein any had failed at that Table.

The commissioner said—Ye know that all the ordour from them hes been readilie obeyed, but little or nothing from the Counsell Table.

My Lord Rothes said—I know neither direction nor obedience given in any thing from that Table, but according to the word of God, and lawes of this Kirk and Kingdome.

The Commissioner said—I came not heir to recriminat, and therefore I pas it.