My dear Lord,
I feel, indeed, much indebted to your Lordship for your letter of the 11th inst., and we are all grateful to you for your criticisms on the Bills; and this I should have told you before, but that I was entirely occupied by professional business throughout yesterday morning, and, besides, I wished to consult with Lord Grenville (with whom I was engaged to dine yesterday) as to the policy of some of the amendments you have suggested. Some are obviously improvements on the face of them. The difficulty, as I foresaw, arises as to the insertion of the additional words to express, "That no one shall exercise the function of a bishop who shall not have been approved by the King." We discussed this point fully last night, and Lord Grenville is decidedly of opinion (and this he desired me to mention to you, as from him) that if we venture upon it we shall shipwreck the whole measure. By having the negative of the King to the nomination of any person whose loyalty and good conduct may be suspected, we surely have, in substance and effect, all the security which can be necessary for the protection of the Protestant establishment; and it would be a sad pity to hazard a measure which, to a certain extent, at least, is happily advanced, for the sake of expressions, preferable certainly, but not essential for our security. I have been with Plunket on the subject this morning, and his view coincides with Lord Grenville's entirely. He says it would be laid hold of immediately by the enemies to the measure amongst the Catholics, and made the source of much discontent and irritation, and that the rather because the Bill has been transmitted to them in its present shape, as the measure to be proposed on this branch of the subject. I should add, that Plunket expressed the greatest anxiety to concur in any suggestion which came from you.
You suggest the exclusion of Roman Catholics from the office of Lord Chancellor of Ireland; but it does not seem to me—and, what is of more consequence, it does not seem to Lord Grenville—that the same reasons exist to exclude them from this office which may be urged against their filling the office of Lord High Chancellor. The Irish Chancellor has not, virtute officii, the disposal of Church patronage, nor is he called upon to advise the King in any way respecting it; and the same principle, therefore, which might be applied to exclude them from this function, might be put forward as a ground for their exclusion from the functions of any judge. To say the truth, Lord Grenville is so great an enemy to the principle of exclusion, that he suggested, instead of the clause as it now stands, that no Lord Chancellor should dispose of any Church preferment till he had subscribed the Thirty-nine Articles; but upon suggesting this alteration, we found it would raise such a storm from the Dissenters (who are already moving in all directions against the measure), that there was no option but to abandon it. It will be a satisfaction to you to know that Lord Grenville has been consulted throughout, and has himself revised and corrected the Bills. He appears exceedingly anxious for the success of them; and certainly, when we reflect how much his public life has been connected and mixed up, as it were, with the Catholic question, we cannot be surprised at the exultation he would naturally feel at witnessing the complete triumph of opinions he has so long and so uniformly held.
The anti-Catholic country gentlemen complain of the apathy of the country; and the King has told Lord Fife he hopes he will vote according to his fancy on the question. These are favourable symptoms.
Believe me, your faithful and obliged,
Joseph Phillimore.
MR. CHARLES W. WYNN TO THE MARQUIS OF BUCKINGHAM.
March 15, 1821.
I am most sensible, my dear B——, of the kindness of your continued and active interest for Henry, and, if I saw anything like an opening, should not hesitate to follow up the overture which you have made in his behalf; but unless some new circumstance had occurred since your letter to Lord Liverpool, which presented a mode of effecting its object, I really should think it too early to make a second application; besides which, I quite agree with my uncle, that, in the present situation of affairs, it is preferable that any application of this nature should, as you have yourself determined, proceed through Lord Liverpool rather than Lord Castlereagh; but if I can get an opportunity of reminding Castlereagh, I certainly will not neglect it.
Everything I see and everything I hear contribute to make me more and more sanguine respecting the Catholic question. The tide clearly sets at present in its favour, and the King's good inclinations are every day more and more surmised. The principal defalcation of strength which we have to apprehend arises from the present disjointed and divided state of the Opposition, the members of which are outrageous against each other, and, according to Macdonald's report, may be expected by the next Session to split into three or more distinct parties. He did not specify either the persons likely to form these, or the points in dispute. At present one can only see the Mountain and their lukewarm coadjutors; but what the third is to be, remains to be shown. The amendments which you suggest to the Catholic Bills appear to me, in general, improvements, with the exception of the addition of the Chancellorship of Ireland to the excepted offices, and the requiring that the King should signify his approbation to the Bishops before the exercise of episcopal functions. Both of these would have the effect of extremely diminishing the effect of the measure in Ireland.