“I will not talk with you; for you are making sport of a very serious subject.”
“I am merely relating the common view of hell, as it is preached all over the land.”
“I do not believe in such a hell; neither do I preach it. The wicked will be banished from the presence of God, there to remain forever.”
“Make hell as mild as you please; put out all its fires, throw away all its brimstone, chains and pitchforks, and say, it is only a condition of sin, darkness, mental anguish, and moral death, and it then is awful beyond imagination. Fire, red hot wheels, boiling lead, as means of torture, give only a faint conception of the horrors of such a state, if it is to continue forever. As John Wesley said, ‘What is gained if there is no material fire in hell, when all admit, that if there is no material fire there, there is something worse.’”
From Macomb I proceeded to Burlington, Iowa, and thence to Iowa City. Here I lectured several times. I. M. Westfall was residing and preaching there. It was then a small town, but now it is a large and flourishing place. Our society owns a meeting-house, and other valuable property.
Lectured in West Liberty, Tipton, Rochester, Muscatine, Washington, Davenport, and some other places in Iowa, and then returned to Indianapolis by the most direct route. This was a long and laborious journey; traveled about one thousand miles, and delivered many discourses, one third of which were in places where the people were entirely ignorant of our faith, and in the rest they knew but very little concerning it.
A short time before the new Convention was organized, I was in North Manchester, in the northern part of Indiana, where a youth introduced himself to me, as William J. Chaplin, and said he had walked fifteen miles to attend my meeting. He also stated that he was studying theology, and intended to be a minister. I encouraged him in his purpose, and shortly afterwards he delivered his first sermon. He has been in the ministry ever since, and has labored extensively, faithfully, and effectually, in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois. At the present time he resides at Dowagiac, Mich., and devotes most of his time to the profession of his choice.
About this time I had an oral discussion with Benjamin Franklin, on three subjects—The General Judgment—Universal Salvation—Endless Misery. We discussed each proposition six hours. The debate was published by both parties, and makes a book of three hundred and fifty-nine pages. It has had a wide circulation—three edition having been issued. Mr. Franklin is, for he is still living, an influential minister, editor and author, in his denomination. He has resided in Cincinnati many years, and publishes a large weekly religious paper in that city.
I also had a debate in Covington, Ind., with Mr. French, a Baptist clergyman, which continued four days. He was pastor of the Baptist church in that place, and his people had immense faith in his ability to demolish the doctrines of the Restitution. But he labored under a great disadvantage, as he could not extemporize; and how he wrote his speeches was a mystery to me; he must have worked hard during the intermissions. But his labor and wit did not save him. His friends were disappointed with his effort, and he soon after left Covington. The discussion was held in the Baptist meeting-house, and very large congregations listened to the arguments, pro and con.
Soon after this, I spent four days in discussion in Park county, Ind., with Mr. Russell, a Campbellite minister. The neighborhood was chiefly of the preacher’s faith; I put up with one of his brethren while the debate was progressing. They all treated me kindly, and we parted in friendship. Mr. R. now resides in Iowa, and is a noted man in his denomination.