In the debate on the address Lord Stanhope gave notice that he should on an early day bring the state of the country under their lordships’ notice, by a special motion. He did so on the 25th of February, by moving that their lordships should resolve themselves into a committee of the whole house on the state of the nation. The proposition on which his lordship founded his motion was, that all the great productive interests of the country were suffering under the pressure of a distress the tendency of which was to go on increasing. Complaints and applications for relief by the agriculturists, he said, had come up from every county, and they had been disregarded, probably because they were couched in respectful language. He said this, because recent experience had shown that if they had formed illegal associations, collected funds, and spoken to government in the language of intimidation, they would have received attention. Of the reasonableness of their complaints no man could doubt who knew their situation. Rents were paid from the capital of the farmer; and numbers of tenants had already been driven from their farms in bankruptcy and beggary. The capital of others, also, was daily extorted from them to meet their current expenses; and when that capital was exhausted they, too, must go forth ruined men. It had been said, “Reduce your rents, and you will remove the mischief,” But this expedient had been tried, and had failed: rents had been reduced fifty per cent.; but there were cases in which no rent could be paid. He knew of one parish, for instance, in Sussex, where all the proceeds of the land were not sufficient to maintain the poor; and neighbouring parishes had been applied to to give them relief. If the existing state of things was not speedily remedied, they must end in ruin and anarchy. Nor, he continued, was the state of the manufacturing population better than that of the agriculturists. Artisans were at work for threepence or fourpence per day; and of those who received employment, a great proportion worked for wages which, when compared with the value of the article on which they were employed, were altogether deceptive. Then, he asked, what was the state of the shipping interest? To realize profit was out of the question; and many of the ship-owners had preferred parting with their ships at a certain loss of forty per cent., to continuing to hold them at the risk of a loss still greater. All these interests were, therefore, at present in a state of apparently hopless distress. As for the symptoms to which ministers pointed as those of returning health, they were utterly fallacious. It had been said that the traffic on railways and canals had been increased; the same effect would be produced if the goods had been transported on speculation, and hawked about from one part of the country to another for sale, either in vain or at ruinous prices. With an increasing population consumption must increase to some extent, because the addition to the population would not absolutely famish; but the evil was, that it was consumption which still furnished to those employed in creating the articles consumed the means, not of living with any reasonable comfort, but of mere squalid starvation. Ministers had told them, likewise, to look at the number of new houses which were springing up, and had asked if this was an indication of distress. No one had ever said that every man in the country was distressed. Who had ever said, for instance, that the fund-holders and annuitants felt the general pressure? They might continue to flourish like rank and noxious weeds among surrounding ruins; they still drew their fixed incomes, but their security was diminishing; for that security depended on the productiveness of the revenue; and the revenue, as the natural result of the misery of all the productive classes of society, was fall ing off. Lord Goderich, in reply, said that he had expected the motion would have been supported by something better than the two undeniable propositions that there was great distress in the country, and that it was the duty of ministers to relieve it to the utmost of their power. He should have thought that the noble mover would have stated the causes which had produced the distress of the country, and have given some notion of the remedies which he deemed applicable to the disease. In regard to the one and the other, the house had been left in the dark. While, however, he resisted a mode of inquiry which promised nothing, he did not say that it was impossible for parliament to do anything. In relation to the currency and the state of our taxation, parliament might afford material relief to the country. He thought parliament might also do something by a reduction of taxation; for during the two years that he himself had been chancellor of the exchequer, nine millions of taxes had been removed, and yet that amount had not been eventually lost to the revenue: in some heads of receipt there had been a diminution, but in others there had been an increase. The Earl of Roseberry, also, spoke against the motion: he could not support it, because he thought that in its present form it was neither practicable nor expedient. The motion was supported by the Duke of Richmond and Lord Eldon. The former insisted principally on various facts proving the extent and pressure of the prevalent distress; and maintained that in common sense the causes of the misfortune should be investigated, before means for removing them were tendered. Lord Eldon, in supporting the motion, accused his ancient colleagues of coming down to parliament with a declaration that there were “other causes” for the distress of the country, which they did not deem it expedient to specify, and which they left to each one’s sagacity to guess at as he might. He contended that the smallest consideration of the causes and remedies of the present all-pervading distress would have been received by the country with gratitude. He was the more confident of this, he said, when he bore in mind the pacific and loyal demeanour of the numerous thousands who were suffering under the most pinching distress, and who, he hoped, would be prevented from being drawn away from the line of good conduct by the expressed determination of parliament to inquire into the causes of their sufferings, with a view to remedy them so far as circumstances might permit. The Duke of Wellington still denied that the existence of distress was so extensive as had been represented, and supported his opinion by the augmented consumption of various articles, by the increase of buildings, by the state of the savings’ banks, and by the advanced traffic on railways and canals. He still maintained, also, that the power of redress was beyond the reach of parliament; and he defied noble lords opposite to do anything on the subject which should be at once politic and satisfactory; expedient and efficacious. Was it right, he asked, for parliament to interfere where it was utterly impossible to do good? The noble mover might recommend a committee; but to what end could they follow his counsel if he could lead them no further? And not one step further had he gone. The Marquis of Lansdowne said that he had no hesitation in stating what he conceived to be the causes of the distress. Much of it, he thought, had been produced by a transition from a state of war to peace. He could not help recollecting, however, that a great part of the difficulties, out of which we had now to extricate ourselves, was to be ascribed to that fatal perseverance, with which we had persisted for many years, in contracting permanent money engagements in a depreciated currency. That was the root of the evil; but in saying so, he did not forget, that, unfortunate as these engagements were, they nevertheless were engagements which the honour of parliament was bound to respect, and which we must find means to discharge. It was one thing, however, to see the cause, and another to point out the remedy: for the present he confessed that he saw but one means of uniting all opinions on the subject, and that was retrenchment, retrenchment qualified by diminution of taxation. The Marquis of Salisbury expressed an opinion that a general inquiry would do more harm than good: he would prefer a select committee, and if that should fail in coming at the cause of the distress, then would be the time for an inquiry of the whole house. Lord King, in conclusion, moved as an amendment, “that a select committee should be appointed to inquire into the depressed state of the agricultural and manufacturing interests of the kingdom for the purpose of ascertaining whether any, and what relief could be afforded.” This amendment, however, was received with as little favour as the original motion, which was lost on a division by one hundred and eighteen against twenty-five.
A similar motion was made, at a more advanced period of the session in the house of commons by Mr. Davenport. The discussion in that house lasted four nights, and in the course of it, the leading members of all parties delivered their opinions, which were in many respects contradictory on the extent as well as on the causes of the evil. The arguments and the views of the speakers, however, were generally the same that had been used in the house of lords, though being used by a greater number of persons, they were presented under a greater number of modifications. The motion was supported by the admitted fact of the prevailing distress; the duty of the house to give relief, if possible; and the necessity for that purpose of ascertaining the causes of the evil. On the other hand it was denied that the distress was general, and that if it was, it would be useless to enter into an inquiry without some specific remedy being pointed out, which had not yet been done. Great objections were also taken to the form of the proposed inquiry. There was no subject of any difficulty with which parliament had ever had to deal, but would necessarily come before this committee, and how could the whole house deal with such an investigation. Sir C. Burrell moved as an amendment that the petitions should be referred to a select committee, but this was still more vehemently resisted: Mr. Peel declaring that a committee of the whole house was the better of the two. Lord Althorp, with the leading members of the Whig party generally, as well as Mr. Huskisson and his followers, took part with the ministry; and the motion was eventually lost by a majority of two hundred and fifty-five against eighty-seven.
REDUCTION OF SALARIES OF PUBLIC OFFICERS, ETC.
Throughout the discussions on the state of the nation, the necessity of reducing taxation, and curtailing the public expenditure, had been insisted on with great force. On the 12th of February, Sir James Graham moved for a reduction of all the salaries paid to official, persons. The foundation of his motion was this:—that, subsequently to the Bank Restriction Act, all salaries had been increased, because the expense of living had increased; and he argued, therefore, that, as the restriction had been removed, and we had returned to cash payments, the salaries ought to be diminished. Justice, he said, demanded such a change High prices, produced by a depreciated currency, had brought them high salaries; low prices, produced by curing that depreciation, must bring them low salaries He did not, however, mean to include in his resolutions the privy-purse and the royal establishment, as these stood upon arrangements entered into at the beginning of the reign, and were hence inviolate. Neither would he interfere with the regular pay of the navy, which had been fixed in 1798, when prices were about the same as at the present time; or of the army, into which our soldiers had entered for a term of years, at a stipulated rate. He meant, however, to include military officers holding civil situations, such as colonial governments, because in many cases their salaries had been augmented without sufficient reason, and because some of these officers being removable at pleasure, their allowances might be altered without difficulty. Sir James Graham enumerated examples in which the salaries of governors had been raised; and stated that there had been an addition of one-third to the number of employés, and an increase of fifty per cent, on their salaries in 1827 as compared with 1797. He concluded by moving this resolution:—“That, whereas, subsequently to the act of the 37th George III., by which a suspension of cash-payments was effected, large augmentations had taken place in the salaries and pay of persons in civil and military employments, on account of the diminished value of money; and whereas the alleged reason for such augmentations had ceased to operate, in consequence of the passing of the 59th George III., which restored a metallic standard of value, resolved that in order to relieve the country from its extensive load of taxation, it was expedient to revise our present system of expenditure in respect of all such augmentations, for the purpose of making every possible reduction that could be effected without violation of good faith, or detriment to public justice.” The motion was opposed by Mr. Dawson, the secretary of the treasury, chiefly on the ground that government had done all that as yet had been possible in the way of reduction, and felt a sincere desire to carry the spirit of economy to every practicable extent. Almost every recommendation of reduction, he said, suggested in the reports of committees, or by commissions of inquiry, had been carried into effect; and the recommendation of a committee which sat in 1797 to abolish sinecures and reversions had been acted upon as far as it was found possible. Government had, indeed, already acted upon the course which Sir James Graham recommended; it had been desirous to adopt the scale of 1797, and though that object had not been fully accomplished, yet, looking at the extent of public business now, and in 1797, he thought the house would see that salaries had been brought as near as possible to the rate of the latter year. After demonstrating the truth of his assertions by appealing to facts and figures, he said, that he trusted the house would negative the motion, in which case, in order to show that he was not desirous to get rid of the question, he would himself move the following resolution:—“That whereas his majesty was graciously pleased, in answer to an address of the house, to assure the house on the 27th of June, 1821, that his majesty would cause an inquiry to be made into all the departments of the civil government, with a view of reducing the number of persons employed in the various offices, and the amount of salaries paid: Resolved, that an humble address be presented to his majesty, that his majesty might be graciously pleased to lay before the house an account of the progress which had been made in such inquiry, and of the measures that had been taken in consequence. Also, that it was the opinion of that house, that in every establishment of the state, every saving ought to be made, consistently with the due performance of the public service, and without the violation of existing engagements.” Sir James Graham thought this proposition of the secretary of the treasury better than his own, and he therefore withdrew his motion, and the house agreed to that of the minister.
This motion regarded the civil establishments only. On the 15th of February, Mr. Hume proposed a similar resolution in regard to the military and naval establishments, by moving an address to the crown, recommending a repeal or modification of all taxes required for the support of all the naval and military, as well as civil establishments, in order to afford immediate and effective relief to the country. Mr. Hume maintained that the scale at which the army and navy were kept up was much greater than necessity required, or the country could bear; and that they ought to be brought back as nearly as possible to what they had been in 1792, when the whole cost of the civil and military government was little more than one-fifth of the present cost. In his speech, he treated of every possible topic connected with taxation and expenditure. The taxes he proposed to reduce were numerous; and he insisted that all the reductions he proposed were practicable, if government would only apply the priming-knife to our overgrown establishments. The chancellor of the exchequer declined following Mr. Hume over the field in which he had expatiated, but he objected to the motion as irregular and inexpedient. It was a motion, he said, recommending a reduction of our civil, naval, and military establishments, without waiting for the estimates of those establishments which was to be laid before the house—without waiting to see whether any and what reductions might be proposed in them by ministers. How, he asked, would parliament determine the amount or practicability of any reduction, till it had inquired into the necessity and general bearing of the several branches of the expenditure? And how could that inquiry be instituted before ministers had laid before the house the responsible official statement of the amount of the several estimates for the year, so as to enable the house to decide upon the economy or extravagance observed in the management of the public money? He objected to the motion, therefore, as a departure from the usual practice of parliament. It was opposed by Messrs. Western and Grant, on the ground that it would be better for ministers first to produce their plan, and then to deal with it as the house might think fit. The house was already pledged to the full extent of this motion, which was, generally to reduce expenditure, and the next step ought to be to point out in what particular manner the reduction ought to be made. Lord Althorp said, that he felt every confidence in the economical disposition of ministers; but still it was desirable that the house should express its opinion that the taxes ought to be reduced in proportion to the reductions in the expenditure, although he did not conceive it possible that the taxes ought to be reduced to the extent proposed by Mr. Hume: his duty was to vote, therefore, for the motion. On a division, however, the motion was lost by one hundred and eighty-nine to sixty-nine.
MOTION FOR REVISING THE WHOLE SYSTEM OF TAXATION.
On the 25th of March Mr. Poulett Thompson moved the appointment of a committee to revise the whole system of our taxation. His object, he said, was to examine the incidents of our great taxation; for all authorities of any weight were agreed that revenue did not depend merely on the amount of what actually passed into the exchequer, but on the manner in which it was derived from the people. Mr. Poulett Thompson wished the house in the first place to consider the taxes which affected raw materials; and whether a reduction was not practicable without any diminution of revenue. He then passed in review certain very productive taxes, as those on tea, tobacco, foreign spirits, French wines, &c., the rate of which, he thought, might safely be lowered without any permanent detriment to the revenue. In conclusion, he said, that his wish was to give ministers a power which they could not exercise effectually without a committee. The alterations which he had in view, might produce a deficiency of revenue in the first stages of their operations, but ministers, supported by a committee fairly and impartially selected, might ask of parliament a vote of credit for all that would be necessary to fill up that deficiency with a much greater certainty of obtaining it, than they would have by acting upon their Own responsibility. The chancellor of the exchequer said, that there could be only one opinion as to the principle on which the motion was founded; namely, the expediency of raising the money required for the public service, in the way least injurious to the sources of public wealth; but he could not accede to the motion founded on this truism, consistently with the interests of the country, or the character of his majesty’s government. The wish to relieve the public burthens was not the only guide to be followed in a question like this; regard was likewise due to the faith and honour of the country. Some of the taxes might be open to the objections urged against them; but such as they were we had mortgaged them to the public creditor; and it I was an imperative duty, not so to modify them as to shake the basis of his security, and weaken the strength of public credit. Great inconvenience would arise from consigning to the consideration of a committee all the various topics to which the honourable member had referred; and from calling upon the members of it to pronounce on the amount of our taxation; to decide how far it admitted of repeal or modification; and to declare how far, in their opinion, ultimate compensation might be made for any loss which might accrue from such loss or modification. The motion was supported by Lord Althorp, Sir Henry Parnell, and Messrs. Bankes and Warburton, who argued that it was difficult to conceive why the committee should be refused after the appointment of the late finance committee. If that committee had proceeded with its labours another year, it would have been occupied with the very matters which it was now proposed to submit to consideration. Lord Althorp said that, in his opinion, it would be a good plan to grant relief to the productive classes by a reduction of taxation, and the imposition of a property-tax. Mr. Peel protested against the appointment of a committee which, he contended, was to be neither less nor more than a delegation of the powers of the whole house, and of the government likewise, to twenty-one members. The house, he said, had been found sufficient in former times for the management of the taxes, and he saw no reason why it should now resign its power. On the other hand, Mr. Huskisson maintained that there was nothing unusual in referring questions of taxation to a committee. The salt-duty and the tax on leather had been referred to committees; and in these cases there had neither been alarms in the public mind, nor change of government, nor loss of confidence in his majesty’s ministers. If the house could not refer such subjects to a committee without endangering the safety of the country, he thought that it had better give up inquisition altogether. He did not, indeed, expect any further reduction of taxation during the present session from the labours of this committee; but still the inquiry would do good. On a division the motion was lost by a majority of one hundred and sixty-seven against seventy-eight.