135. As I know that many will doubt the possibility of a man's being able, with the eyes of his spirit, to see anything on an earth so distant, I may state how the matter is. Distances in the other life are not as distances on the Earth. In the other life distances are altogether according to the states of the interiors of each one. They who are in a similar state are together in one society and in one place. All presence there results from likeness of state, and all distance results from unlikeness of state. Hence it was that I was near to that earth when I was brought by the Lord into a state similar to that of its spirits and inhabitants, and that being then present I conversed with them. Hence it is evident that earths in the spiritual world are not distant as in the natural world, but only apparently so according to the states of life of their inhabitants and spirits. The state of life is the state of the affections as to love and faith. In regard to a spirit, or, what is the same, a man as to his spirit, being able to see the things that are on an earth, I may also explain how the case therein is. Neither spirits nor angels are able, by their own sight, to see anything that is in the world; for to them the light of the world, that is, solar light, is as thick darkness: just as man by his bodily sight cannot see anything that is in the other life; for to him the light of heaven is as thick darkness. But nevertheless spirits and angels, when it pleases the Lord, can see the things in the natural world through the eyes of a man; but this is not granted by the Lord with any except those whom He permits to speak with spirits and angels, and to be together with them. It has been permitted them to see through my eyes the things in this world, and as plainly as I myself did; and even to hear men speaking with me. It has sometimes happened that through me some have seen their friends, with whom they had been intimate in the life of the body, altogether present as before, and they have been amazed thereat. Wives also have seen in this manner their husbands and children, and have wanted me to tell them that they were present and saw them, and to inform them of their state in the other life. But it was forbidden me to say and reveal to them that they had been seen in this way, for the further reason that they would have called me insane, or have thought my information ravings of the mind (animus), for I was well aware that, although they affirmed with their mouth, they yet did not at heart believe in the existence of spirits, the resurrection of the dead and their living among spirits, and these being able to see and hear by means of a man. When my interior sight was first opened, and when those who are in the other life saw through my eyes the world and the things therein, they were so amazed that they called it the miracle of miracles, and were affected with new joy that there was thus granted a communication of the Earth with heaven, and of heaven with the Earth. This joy continued for months; but afterwards it became familiar, and now the wonder has ceased. I have been informed that the spirits and angels with other men do not in the least see the things in the world, but only perceive the thoughts and affections of those with whom they are. From all this it may appear, that man was so created that, while living amongst men in the world, he might at the same time live in heaven amongst angels, and contrariwise, so that heaven and the world might be together with man, and act as a one, and that men might know what passes in heaven, and angels what passes in the world; and that when men depart this life, they might pass thus from the Lord's kingdom on earth into His kingdom in the heavens, not as into another, but as into the same kingdom, in which they had been during their life in the body. But as man has become so corporeal, he has closed heaven against himself.

136. Lastly, I conversed with spirits who were from that earth concerning various things on our Earth, especially concerning the fact that sciences are cultivated here, which are not cultivated elsewhere, such as astronomy, geometry, mechanics, physics, chemistry, medicine, optics, and natural philosophy; and likewise arts, which are unknown elsewhere, as the arts of ship-building, of smelting metals, of writing on paper, and likewise of publishing by printing, and thus of communicating with others on the Earth, and thus also of preserving what is communicated for the use of posterity for thousands of years; and that this has been done also with the Word which is from the Lord, and that on this account revelation is for ever permanent on our Earth.

137. At last I was shown the hell of those who are from that earth. Those who appeared from there inspired great terror. I dare not describe their monstrous faces. Sorceresses also appeared there, who practise nefarious arts. They appeared clad in green, and struck me with horror.

THE SECOND EARTH IN THE STARRY HEAVEN, AND ITS SPIRITS AND INHABITANTS.

138. I was afterwards led by the Lord to an earth in the universe which was at a much greater distance from our Earth than the first one that has just been treated of. That it was at a much greater distance, was plain from this circumstance, that I was two days in being led thither as to my spirit. This earth was to the left, whereas the former was to the right. As remoteness in the spiritual world does not, as already observed, arise from distance of place, but from difference of state, the long-continuance of my progression thither, which lasted two days, enabled me to conclude that the state of the interiors which prevailed with them, which is the state of the affections and of the consequent thoughts, differed proportionately from the state of the interiors which prevails with the spirits from our Earth. As I was conveyed thither as to the spirit by means of changes of the state of the interiors, I was enabled to observe the successive changes themselves before I arrived there. This took place while I was awake.

139. When I arrived there, I did not see the earth, but only the spirits who were from that earth; for, as has already been stated, the spirits of every earth appear about their own earth, because they are of a similar genius with the inhabitants, for they are of them, and are serviceable to them. Those spirits appeared at a considerable height over my head, and from thence they saw me coming. It must be borne in mind that they who stand on high in the other life can behold those who are below them, and the higher they stand the wider is the extent of their vision; and that not only can they behold them, but also speak with them. They observed from there that I was not from their earth, but from some other at a distance; wherefore, addressing me from thence, they questioned me on various subjects, and to these questions it was also permitted me to reply. Among other things, I told them from what earth I came, and what kind of earth it was; and afterwards I told them about the earths in our solar system; and then also about the spirits of the earth or planet Mercury, that they wander about to many earths for the purpose of procuring for themselves knowledges about various things. On hearing this, they said that they had also seen those spirits among themselves.

140. I was told by the angels from our Earth that the inhabitants and spirits of that earth, in the Grand Man, have relation to KEENNESS OF VISION, and that therefore they appear on high; and that they have a most penetrating keenness of sight. In consequence of their having this relation, and of their seeing clearly the things that were below, in the course of our conversation I compared them to eagles, which fly aloft, and enjoy a piercing and extensive view of surrounding things. At this they became indignant, supposing that I considered them like eagles as to their rapacity, and consequently that I thought them evil; but I replied, that I did not liken them to eagles as to rapacity, but as to keenness of vision.

141. Being questioned concerning the God whom they worshipped, they replied that they worshipped a God visible and invisible; a God visible under the Human Form, and an invisible God, under no form at all; and I learned from their discourse, and likewise from the ideas of their thoughts which were communicated to me, that the visible God was our Lord Himself, and they also called Him Lord. To this it was given me to reply, that on our Earth also, an invisible and a visible God is worshipped; and that the invisible God is called the Father, and the visible, the Lord; but that both are One, as He Himself taught, saying, that no one had ever seen the form of the Father, that the Father and He are One, that whoso seeth Him seeth the Father, and that the Father is in Him and He in the Father; consequently, that both Divine [Essences] are in One Person. That these are the words of the Lord Himself, see John v. 37; x. 30; xiv. 7, 9-11.

142. Afterwards I saw other spirits from the same earth, who appeared in a place beneath the former: with these also I conversed; but they were idolaters, for they worshipped an idol of stone, like a man, but an unhandsome one. It is to be observed, that all who come into the other life, in the beginning have a worship which is like their worship in the world, but that by degrees they are removed from it. The reason why this takes place is, that all worship remains implanted in man's interior life, from which it cannot be removed and eradicated except by degrees. On seeing this, it was given me to tell them that they ought not to worship what is dead, but what is living; to which they replied, that they knew that God lives, and that a stone does not, but that they thought of the living God while looking on a stone resembling a man, and that otherwise the ideas of their thought could not be fixed upon and determined to the invisible God. It was then given me to tell them that the ideas of thought can be fixed upon and determined to the invisible God, when they are fixed upon and determined to the Lord, who is God visible in thought under the Human Form; and thus that man can be conjoined with the invisible God in thought and affection, consequently in faith and love, when he is conjoined with the Lord, but not otherwise.