165. I lastly conversed with the spirits of that earth concerning the belief of the inhabitants of our Earth on the subject of the resurrection, in that they cannot conceive that men come into the other life immediately after death, and then appear as men as to the face, the body, the arms, the feet, and all the external and internal senses; still less that they are then clothed in garments, and have mansions and dwelling-places; and that the sole reason of this is that most persons here think from the sensuals which belong to the body, and therefore believe in the existence of nothing but what they see and touch; and that few of them can be withdrawn from external sensual things to interior things, and thus be elevated into the light of heaven, in which such things are perceived. Hence it is, that they can have no idea of their soul or spirit as of a man, but as of wind, or air, or a breath without form, in which there is yet something vital. This is the reason why they do not believe they shall rise again till the end of the world, which they call the Last Judgment, when the body, though mouldered into dust, and scattered by every wind, will be brought together again and conjoined to its soul or spirit. I added, that it is permitted them to believe this, since those who, as was said, think from external sensual things, can conceive no otherwise than that the soul or spirit cannot live as a man in a human form, unless it receive again that body which it carried about in the world; wherefore, unless it were asserted that the body will rise again, they would reject from their heart as incomprehensible the doctrine of the resurrection and of eternal life. But nevertheless this thought concerning the resurrection has this advantage with it, that it leads them to believe in a life after death, a consequence of which belief is, that when they lie on a sick bed, and do not, as theretofore, think from worldly and corporeal things, thus not from sensual things, they then believe that they shall live immediately after their decease; they then also speak of heaven, and of the hope of a life there immediately after death, quite apart from their doctrinal concerning the Last Judgment. I related further, that sometimes it had been matter of surprise to me, that when those who are in faith speak of a life after death, and of their friends and relatives who are dying or dead, and do not at the same time think about the Last Judgment, they believe that they will live or are living as men immediately on their decease. But as soon as thought concerning the Last Judgment flows in, this idea is changed into the material idea concerning their earthly body, that it is again to be conjoined to their soul; for they do not know that every man is a spirit as to his interiors, and that this it is which lives in the body and in each of its parts, and not the body which lives of itself; and that it is the spirit of every one from which his body has its human form, and which, consequently, is principally the man, and in a similar form, but invisible to the eyes of the body, yet visible to the eyes of spirits. Hence also, when the sight of a man's spirit is opened, which is effected by the removal of the bodily sight, angels appear as men: in this manner angels appeared to the ancients, as recorded in the Word. I have also sometimes spoken with spirits, with whom I had been acquainted when they lived as men in the world, and I have asked them whether they had any inclination to be clothed again with their earthly bodies, as they used to think would be the case. But they fled far away at the very idea of such a conjunction, being smitten with amazement that, while in the world, they should have thought in this manner under the influence of so blind a belief, devoid of all understanding.

166. Moreover, on that earth I saw the dwellings of the inhabitants: they were lowly houses, extended in length, with windows at the sides, according to the number of the rooms or chambers into which they were divided. The roof was arched, and there was a door on each side at the end. They told me that they were built of earth, and covered with turf; and that the windows were formed of filaments of grass woven together in such a manner that the light shone through. I also saw little children; and the inhabitants told me that their neighbours come to them, especially for the sake of the little children, that they may be in company with other children in the presence and under the direction of their parents. There also appeared fields becoming white with standing crops that were at that time nearly ripe for harvest. The seeds or grains of that corn were shown me, and they were like grains of Chinese wheat: I was also shown some bread made from it, which was in small square loaves. There also appeared plains of grass adorned with flowers; also trees laden with fruit like pomegranates; also shrubs, which were not vines, but still produced berries from which they prepare wine.

167. The sun of that earth, which is to us a star, appears there flaming, in size almost a fourth part of our sun. Their year is about two hundred days, and each day fifteen hours, relatively to the length of days on our Earth. The earth itself is one of the least in the starry heaven, being scarcely five hundred German miles in circumference. The angels stated these particulars from a comparison made with things of the like kind on our Earth, which they saw in me, or in my memory. Their conclusions were formed by angelic ideas, whereby are instantly known the measures of spaces and times, in a just proportion relatively to spaces and times elsewhere. Angelic ideas, which are spiritual, in such calculations immensely surpass human ideas, which are natural.

THE FIFTH EARTH IN THE STARRY HEAVEN, AND ITS SPIRITS AND INHABITANTS.

168. I was led to yet another earth in the universe beyond our solar system, and on this occasion also by changes of state continued for nearly twelve hours. In company with me were several spirits and angels from our Earth, with whom I conversed during this voyage or progression. I was carried at times obliquely upwards and obliquely downwards, continually towards the right, which in the other life is towards the south. In two places only did I see spirits, and in one I spoke with them. During this journey or progression I was permitted to observe how immense was the Lord's heaven, which is designed for angels and spirits; for from the parts uninhabited I was enabled to conclude that it was so immense that, supposing there were many myriads of earths, and on each earth as great a multitude of human beings as on our own, there would still be a place of abode for them to eternity, and it would never be filled. This I was enabled to conclude from a comparison made with the [inhabited] extent of the heaven which is about our Earth and designed for it, which extent was so small relatively, as not to equal one ten-thousand-thousandth part of the extent uninhabited.

169. When the angelic spirits who were from that earth came into view, they accosted us, asking who we were, and what we wanted. We told them that we were travelling, that we had been transported thither, and that they had nothing to fear from us. For they were afraid that we were of those who disturb them concerning God, faith, and kindred subjects, on account of whom they had betaken themselves to that quarter of their earth, shunning them as much as possible. We asked them by what they were disturbed. They replied, by the idea of Three, and by the idea of the Divine without the Human in God, when they yet know and perceive that God is one, and that He is man. It was then perceived that those who disturbed them, and whom they shunned, were from our Earth: this was manifest also from this consideration, that there are spirits from our Earth who thus wander about in the other life, in consequence of their fondness for and delight in travelling, which they have contracted in the world; for on other earths there is no such custom of travelling as on ours. It was afterwards discovered that they were monks, who had travelled on our globe from a desire to convert the gentiles. We therefore told them that they did well to shun them, because their intention was, not to teach, but to secure gain and dominion; and that they strive by various means first to captivate men's minds (animi), and afterwards to subject them to themselves as slaves: moreover, that they did well in not suffering their idea concerning God to be disturbed by such spirits. They said further, that these spirits also confuse them by asserting that they ought to have faith, and to believe what they say; but that their reply to them is, that they do not know what faith or believing means, since they perceive in themselves whether a thing be so or not. They were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, where all know by interior perception the truths which with us are called the truths of faith, for they are in enlightenment from the Lord; but it is otherwise with those who are in the spiritual kingdom. That the angelic spirits of that earth were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, I could also see from the flame whence their ideas flowed; for in the celestial kingdom the light is flaming, and in the spiritual kingdom it is bright white. They who are of the celestial kingdom, when the discourse is about truths, say no more than Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, and never reason about them whether they be so or not. These are they of whom the Lord says, "Let your discourse be Yea, yea, Nay, nay; what is beyond this is of evil" [(Matt. v. 37)]. Hence it was that those spirits said that they did not know what it is to have faith or to believe. They consider this to be like one saying to his companion, who with his own eyes sees houses or trees, that he ought to have faith or to believe that they are houses and trees, when he sees clearly that they are so. Such are they who are of the Lord's celestial kingdom, and such were these angelic spirits[aaa]. We told them that few on our Earth have interior perception, because in their youth they learn truths, and do not practise them. For man has two faculties, which are called the understanding and the will; they who admit truths no further than into the memory, and thence in some degree into the understanding, but not into the life, that is, into the will, these, inasmuch as they cannot be in any enlightenment or interior sight from the Lord, say that those truths ought to be believed, or that man ought to have faith in them; and they also reason about them whether they be truths or not; nay, they are not willing that they should be perceived by any interior sight, or by any enlightenment by the understanding. They say this, because truths with them are without light from heaven, and to those who see without light from heaven, falsities may appear as truths, and truths as falsities. Hence so great blindness has fallen on many on our Earth, that although a man does not practise truths or live according to them, they say nevertheless that he may be saved by faith alone, as if a man were not man from the life and according to it, but from the knowledge of such things as belong to faith, apart from the life. We afterwards conversed with them concerning the Lord, concerning love to Him, love towards the neighbour, and regeneration; saying, that loving the Lord consists in loving the precepts which are from Him, that is, in living according to them from love[bbb]; that love towards the neighbour consists in willing good and thence doing good to a fellow-citizen, to one's country, to the church, to the Lord's kingdom, not for the selfish end of being seen or acquiring merit, but from the affection of good[ccc]. Concerning regeneration, we observed that they who are being regenerated by the Lord, and who commit truths immediately to the life, come into an interior perception concerning them; but that those who receive truths first in the memory, and afterwards will them and do them, are those who are in faith; for they act from faith, which is then called conscience. These things, they said, they perceived to be so, and therefore perceived also what faith is. I conversed with them by means of spiritual ideas, by which such subjects may be exhibited and comprehended in light.

Footnote aaa: [(return) ]

Heaven is distinguished into two kingdoms, one of which is called the celestial kingdom, the other the spiritual kingdom, nos. 3887, 4138. The angels in the celestial kingdom have vastly more knowledge and wisdom than the angels in the spiritual kingdom, no. 2718. The celestial angels do not think and speak from faith, like the spiritual angels, but from an internal perception that a thing is so, nos. 202, 597, 607, 784, 1121, 1387, 1398, 1442, 1919, 7680, 7877, 8780. The celestial angels say only concerning the truths of faith, Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, but the spiritual angels reason whether a thing be so or not so, nos. 202, 337, 2715, 3246, 4448, 9166.

Footnote bbb: [(return) ]

Loving the Lord means living according to His commandments, nos. 10143, 10153, 10310, 10578, 10645.

Footnote ccc: [(return) ]

Loving the neighbour consists in doing what is good, just, and right, in every work and in every function, from the affection of what is good, just, and right, nos. 8120, 8121, 8123, 10310, 10336. A life of love towards the neighbour is a life according to the Lord's precepts, no. 3249.