The orator then went on to answer the objection that "the Concordat was by this time broken, and that the Government had no need to inform the Holy See of its wish to suppress that contract." M. Ribot replied that "it would be the greatest mistake we could at this moment commit, to ignore the Holy See, as if it no longer existed for us."
The speaker then referred to the amicable relations sustained between the Holy See and schismatical of Protestant nations.
"Do you not feel that the French activity will be very much weakened, not only in Tunis, but in the Extreme Orient, if we have no longer any relations with the Holy See? ... in such case what will become of our protectorate over the Catholics of the East? The Emperor of Germany has gone to Morocco during the last few days; some time ago he was at Jerusalem and at Constantinople. Are we going to permit Germany, Italy, and other nations to divide the debris, the remnants of our patrimony?"
A voice.—"Never!"
M. Ribot.—"Never? When the mistake is committed it will be too late to repair it."
M. Ribot then continued his speech: "After breaking all relations with Rome, after wounding the Holy See in its pontifical dignity, by refusing even to confer with it in regard to the denunciation of the Concordat, by omitting a formality which you would not neglect with anyone in the world, you are going to give up, carelessly and without a tremor, the complete direction of the French Church. He can tomorrow—if you invite it—name the bishops, all the bishops, without leaving to us the right of presenting to him any suggestion, or of obtaining from him, as England obtains for Malta, as the United States obtains for the Philippines, as we have obtained for Tunis, that the religious choice made by him incline sometimes in the direction of political necessity. We cannot do more than that, and you who complain of the disquieting work of ultramontainism in this country, you do not even dream of effecting a transition which permits us to obtain in that regard some guarantees.
"I am sure that the Pope will not make any choice in a spirit reprisal, but that he will consider purely religious interests only. What consideration ought he to have for you, when you have had none for him? He will make choices that can embarrass you, against whom you will protest. Oh! I know you always have a resource at hand after you have made a bad law; you can make another which will be a law of despotism and perhaps of tyranny. That is always the poor resource of short-sighted assemblies. I would prefer to provide for the danger rather than be obliged to remedy it by such means. I am sure that a mutual understanding is desirable, that it is necessary. I wish you could see it, and that if you are determined to proceed resolutely towards separation, you will do it with that prudence, that method which I have indicated, and which is the only one that can save you from danger."
M. Ribot proceeds to point out the danger of "repulsing the Holy See with a violent, almost brutal gesture and of permitting political associations to enslave the clergy after they have been emancipated from the State."
"Gentlemen, you want to be logical, but you are the most short-sighted of statesmen. You justify in advance all acts of inquietude. My friend, M. Lanessan, who is a devoted partisan of the separation of Church and State, published, the day before yesterday, in the Siecle a letter from a member of the clergy, whom he calls a liberal and republican priest, who does not care to see politics mixed with religion; and that priest declared that the separation, such as you wish to make it, without method, without transition, and without an understanding with the Holy See, must have for its result a considerable increase in the action of the Papacy and the Roman congregations over the French clergy, and that the French clergy will not submit, even in spite of itself, to a domination which drags it between the militant parties of political action."
Later in his speech, M. Ribot contrasts the Government's treatment of the Catholics with its treatment of other religious denominations. "You agree that you could not and ought not in making a loyal and liberal separation, refuse to the Protestant Church its traditional organization, because in their case the question of temporal organization is bound by the most intimate ties with the defence of religious ideas themselves, and with the existence of the dogmas upon which religion reposes. You have thus given satisfaction to the Protestants. To the Israelites you have said: 'You may keep your assemblies of notables, your mode of election, and also the superior council which establishes equally the unity of your faith.' Now you find yourselves in the presence of the Catholics. Have they less reason than the Protestants and Israelites of a visible organ of unity in France, for the reason that their unity can always be made and is made at Rome? However, you cannot refuse them the right of recurring to their ancient practices, those customs followed by the clergy of this country, of having assemblies of bishops, and also, if they wish it, a general assembly. But you find yourselves face to face with an organization altogether different from that of the Protestants or Israelites; and you have not, I hope, the pretension, under the pretext that it would be an amelioration, to oblige the Catholics to adopt the organization of the Protestants or Israelites; you wish to leave them their own organization.
"That organization is known to every one; it is founded upon the principle of authority. The pastors are not elected, they are appointed from above; and even for her temporal government, for the administration of property, the Catholic Church has organized a system of limited councils, councils de fabrique and others, which proceed from the bishop; he it is who directs the conduct of all of them by his authority. Whether this system is good or bad, or whether it is better than a broader democratic system, are questions which I have no right to raise, nor you either."
After many discussions and interruptions the orator finally arrived at his peroration: "You see, M. Briand, the spirit in which we discuss this law. It is not a spirit of obstruction, nor the attitude of one influenced by foregone conclusions. I want to be associated with you; I would do so willingly if you will do what is indispensable, if the Government acts as it ought to act, as any government would act which was not pledged beforehand, which was not bound up in some way by the precautions which preceding ministers have taken to put us in a trap, if the Government would hold with Rome such an understanding as the conditions of lofty and perfect dignity require.