“Mr. Morton. Yes, sir; it is an illegal contract. It was illegal when we made it, and we knew that.

“Commissioner Clements. Can you tell how much you paid out in a year?

“Morton. On this business?

“Clements. Yes, sir. Have you any idea whether it is $50,000 or $100,000 or $10,000—anything definite? Of course it is a mere guess and you do not know—

“Morton. Well, I think there was a great deal more than any sum you mention paid out.

“Clements. By your company?

“Morton. By all the companies. I think we paid out $50,000 a year or more.

“Clements. Who would have the direction of that? Who would see that it was paid? Who would direct it to be done?

“Morton. I would.

“Commissioner Prouty. How much does it cost your company on all its business in any one year to deviate from the published rates?