"Ay," said I, "it was so written in Jeremiah's time; but that was many ages before Christ commanded not to swear at all; but where is it written so, since Christ forbade all swearing? I could bring as many instances out of the Old Testament for swearing as thou, and it may be more; but of what force are they to prove swearing lawful in the New Testament, since Christ and the Apostle forbade it? Besides," said I, "in that text where it is written, Ye shall swear, what 'ye' was this? Was it 'Ye Gentiles,' or 'Ye Jews'?"
To this he would not answer. But one of the priests that were with him answered, "It was to the Jews that this was spoken." Then Dr. Cradock confessed it was so.
"Very well," said I, "but where did God ever give a command to the Gentiles to swear? For thou knowest that we are Gentiles by nature."
"Indeed," said he, "in the gospel times everything was to be established out of the mouths of two or three witnesses; but there was to be no swearing then."
"Why, then," said I, "dost thou force oaths upon Christians, contrary to thy own knowledge, in the gospel-times? And why dost thou excommunicate my friends?" for he had excommunicated abundance both in Yorkshire and Lancashire.
He said, "For not coming to church." "Why," said I, "ye left us above twenty years ago, when we were but young lads and lasses, to the Presbyterians, Independents, and Baptists, many of whom made spoil of our goods, and persecuted us because we would not follow them. We, being but young, knew little then of your principles. If ye had intended to keep your principles alive, that we might have known them, ye should either not have fled from us as ye did, or ye should have sent us your epistles, collects, homilies, and evening songs; for Paul wrote epistles to the saints, though he was in prison. But they and we might have turned Turks or Jews for any collects, homilies, or epistles we had from you all this while. And now thou hast excommunicated us, both young and old, and so have others of you done; that is, ye have put us out of your church before ye have got us into it, and before ye have brought us to know your principles. Is not this madness in you, to put us out before we were brought in? Indeed, if ye had brought us into your church, and when we had been in, if we had done some bad thing, that had been something like a ground for excommunication or putting out again. But," said I, "What dost thou call the Church?"
"Why," said he, "that which you call the steeple-house."
Then I asked him whether Christ shed His blood for the steeple-house, and purchased and sanctified the steeple-house with His blood. And seeing the Church is Christ's bride and wife, and that He is the Head of the Church, dost thou think the steeple-house is Christ's wife and bride, and that He is the head of that old house, or of His people?"
"No," said he, "Christ is the head of His people, and they are the Church."
"But," said I, "You have given the title Church to an old house, which belongs to the people; and you have taught them to believe so."