“What then — do you not grant farther, that he lives badly, disagreeably, disadvantageously, to himself?”
“No. We cannot possibly grant you that,” — replies Kleinias.
Ethical creed laid down by the Athenian — Poets required to conform to it.
“Then (says the Athenian) you and I are in marked opposition.[64] For to me what I have affirmed appears as necessary as the existence of Krete is indisputable. If I were lawgiver, I should force the poets and all the citizens to proclaim it with one voice: and I should punish most severely every one[65] who affirmed that there could be any wicked men who lived agreeably — or that there could be any course advantageous or profitable, which was not at the same time the most just. These and other matters equally at variance with the opinions received among Kretans, Spartans, and mankind generally — should persuade my citizens to declare unanimously. — For let us assume for a moment your opinion, and let us ask any lawgiver or any father advising his son. — You say that the just course of life is one thing, and that the agreeable course is another: I ask you which of the two is the happiest? If you say that the agreeable course is the happiest, what do you mean by always exhorting me to be just? Do you wish me not to be happy?[66] If on the contrary you tell me that the just course of life is happier than the agreeable, I put another question — What is this Good and Beautiful which the lawgiver extols as superior to pleasure, and in which the just man’s happiness consists? What good can he possess, apart from pleasure?[67] He obtains praise and honour:— Is that good, but disagreeable — and would the contrary, infamy, be agreeable? A life in which a man neither does wrong to others nor receives wrong from others, — is that disagreeable, though good and honourable — and would the contrary life be agreeable, but dishonourable? You will not affirm that it is.[68]
[64] Plato, Legg. ii. p. 662 A-B. ἢ τοῦτο μέν ἴσως ἂν ξυγχωρήσαιτε, τό γε αἰσχρῶς (ζῆν); Κλεινίας. Πάνυ μὲν οὖν. Ἀθηναῖος. Τί δέ; τὸ καὶ κακῶς; Κλειν. Οὐκ ἂν ἔτι τοῦθ’ ὁμοίως. Ἀθην. Τί δέ; τὸ καὶ ἀηδώς καὶ μὴ ξυμφερόντως αὐτῷ; Κλειν. Καὶ πώς ἂν ταῦτά γ’ ἔτι ξυγχωροῖμεν; Ἀθην. Ὅπως; εἰ θεὸς ἡμῖν ὡς ἔοικεν, ὦ φίλοι, δοίη τις συμφωνίαν, ὡς νῦν γε σχεδὸν ἀπᾴδομεν ἀπ’ ἀλλήλων. Ἐμοὶ γὰρ δὴ φαίνεται ταῦτα οὕτως ἀναγκαῖα, ὡς οὐδὲ Κρήτη νῆσος σαφῶς.
[65] Plato, Legg. ii. p. 662 B-C. ζημίαν τε ὀλίγου μεγίστην ἐπιτιθείην ἂν, εἰ τις ἐν τῇ χώρᾳ φθέγξαιτο ὡς εἰσί τινες ἄνθρωποί ποτε πονηροὶ μέν, ἡδέως δὲ ζῶντες, &c.
[66] Plato, Legg. ii. p. 662 D-E.
[67] Plato, Legg. ii. p. 662 E. εἰ δ’ αὖ τὸν δικαιότατον εὐδαιμονέστατον ἀποφαίνοιτο βίον εἶναι, ζητοῖ που πᾶς ἂν ὁ ἀκούων, οἶμαι, τί ποτ’ ἐν αὐτῷ τὸ τῆς ἡδονῆς κρεῖττον ἀγαθόν τε καὶ καλὸν ὁ νόμος ἐνὸν ἐπαινεῖ; τί γὰρ δὴ δικαίῳ χωριζόμενον ἡδονῆς ἀγαθὸν ἂν γίγνοιτο;
[68] Plato, Legg. ii. p. 663 A.
“Surely then, my doctrine — which regards the pleasurable, the just, the good, and the honourable, as indissolubly connected, — has at least a certain force of persuasion, if it has nothing more, towards inducing men to live a just and holy life: so that the lawgiver would be both base and wanting to his own purposes, if he did not proclaim it as a truth. For no one will be willingly persuaded to do anything which does not carry with it in its consequences more pleasure than pain.[69] There is indeed confusion in every man’s vision, when he looks at these consequences in distant outline: but it is the duty of the lawgiver to clear up such confusion, and to teach his citizens in the best way he can, by habits, encouraging praises, discourses, &c., how they ought to judge amidst these deceptive outlines. Injustice, when looked at thus in prospect, seems to the unjust man pleasurable, while justice seems to him thoroughly disagreeable. On the contrary, to the just man, the appearance is exactly contrary: to him justice seems pleasurable, injustice repulsive. Now which of these two judgments shall we pronounce to be the truth? That of the just man. The verdict of the better soul is unquestionably more trustworthy than that of the worse. We must therefore admit it to be a truth, that the unjust life is not merely viler and more dishonourable, but also in truth more disagreeable, than the just life.”[70]