The large grenade weighs fourteen or fifteen pounds. It is a canister strongly bound with tarred rope. It is not circular. A number of pistols, swords, cartridges, and bullets, were also found in the room.
No person but Thistlewood offered violence before the candles were put out. There were likewise found in the room about three dozen of weapons, which resembled a sort of bayonet. The bottom part had not a socket like a bayonet, but a screw to fasten into a stick. I found also a dozen of sticks, formed for the purpose of being fitted to those bayonets.
The bayonets appeared to be newly made. They are very rough, and not at all brightened or polished. The balls I picked up in the room were not fired from pistols. If they had, they would have been flattened; I desired the men to pick the arms up, and each man to keep safely what he found: in consequence, some were in the possession of one man, and some in that of another; two or three muskets were either found in the room, or else taken from some of the persons who had been apprehended.
The party had no notice but what I gave that we were officers.
The deposition of this witness having been read over to, and signed by, him,
James Ellis was next called.—Having been sworn, he stated, I live at No. 22, Paradise-row, Palmer’s-village, St. Margaret’s, Westminster, and am an officer belonging to the Bow-street patrol. I am also a constable. On Wednesday night last, about half-past seven o’clock, Mr. Stafford, the chief clerk at Bow-street, directed me to take Richard Smithers, John Surman, and William Gibbs, and to proceed in a coach with them to John-street, Edgeware-road, as fast as possible, there to meet Mr. Birnie, who would give us further orders. We did so; and when we arrived at the spot, we found Mr. Birnie waiting. He inquired whether we had seen any thing of the military. We told him we had not. He said he expected them every minute. In about twenty minutes Mr. Birnie called us together. Some inquiries were made, but I don’t know of whom, as to what number were likely to be in the room to which we were going, and whether Arthur Thistlewood was to be there. Mr. Birnie gave me a warrant, signed by Mr. Baker, of Marlborough-street, to apprehend Arthur Thistlewood and thirteen other persons named in it. I have not the warrant; I have given it to Mr. Baker. On our being called together, and Mr. Birnie being given to understand that Thistlewood and others were in the room, he asked how many there might be present, and was informed that there was about a dozen. He then inquired how many there were of us. We told him about a dozen also. He said he had been disappointed in the soldiers, who had perhaps missed their way, and were half an hour too late, and that we must proceed to apprehend the parties. We said we would do the best we could. Smithers observed, if there were forty of them we would secure them. Mr. Birnie then directed me to call Ruthven, another officer, out of the Horse and Groom, and we were sent forward to the house, the military not having come in time. Ruthven opened the door and went in; it was a kind of stable where the meeting was held. Ruthven went in first, I followed him. When I entered the stable I observed a man with belts on, a musket or fusil on his arm, and a sword at his side. I believe he held the musket in the position which soldiers do, when on duty. He was walking backward and forward. Ruthven desired some person to take charge of him. I took him by the collar, turned him half round, and gave him to some other person, observing at the same time that he was a man of colour. At that moment Ruthven was at the foot of the ladder, up which he went. I followed as closely as I possibly could, and was immediately followed by Smithers. Before I got up the ladder, I heard a clattering of swords. I heard Ruthven say at that moment, “We are officers, seize their arms,” or “lay down your arms,” I cannot tell which. Upon gaining the top of the ladder, Ruthven turned a little to the left, to go round a table or carpenter’s bench. I observed a number of men falling back to the other end of the room. They were apparently all armed. I also saw three or four men backing into the little room on the right. They were all armed with swords or cutlasses. A tall man immediately brandished a sword at me: his foot was advanced in a fencing attitude, as if he meant to stab. I held up my staff in my left hand, and presented a pistol at him with my right; I held up my staff that he might see it, to shew him what I was. The light was then as good as it is here: it was very lightsome: I desired the man to desist, or I certainly would fire. I did not fire then, I did afterwards. I did not know who the tall man was that threatened me at the time, but I have seen him since, and I know it was Thistlewood. There were some persons in the further room to the right. There was another closet near to the ladder, which was not discovered nor opened for half an hour afterwards. No one was found there. Smithers rushed past, and endeavoured to get into the little room. I saw the tall man draw his hand back, and make a thrust of a sword at him, which I saw strike him on the breast.
It was the same tall man, Thistlewood, who had flourished his sword at me. The manner in which he did it made me fix my eyes on him, so as to mark the kind of countenance he had. Smithers, on being struck, immediately threw up his hands, fell towards me, and exclaimed, “Oh! my God!” I instantly fired at the man who killed Smithers, but I missed him. Smithers fell against me at the time, so as to drive me to the head of the stairs. A rush was then made by the party, and I was knocked down from the top to the bottom of the ladder. The moment I fired, the candles were all put out with the swords.
I think there were four or five and twenty persons present. There were four or five in the small room. The time was so short that very little observation could be made. I ran to the door, when two or three shots were fired in the stable below, where I was. I don’t know by whom they were fired. It was in the dark, and I could not discover friend from foe. I do not know that any officer fired except myself. I have not heard of such a thing. When I arrived at the door, I heard a cry of “Stop him,” and instantly saw a man running at the other side of the street; I pursued, and took him in the street, about twenty yards from the door. When laying hold of him, he made a cut at me with a long sword. This was the man of colour. I received a cut, a very slight one, in the leg. I think it was when his arm, in striking at me, swung round my neck, that the sword, which was a very long one, hit my leg. The man’s name is Davidson. I believe him to be the same man who kept the door, but I will not positively swear to that. I took him to a shop at the corner, and seized his fusil, which was that of a light-horseman, but perhaps rather heavier.
I have seen Thistlewood, and I believe him to be the man that struck Smithers. I did not know him at the time. I saw him for six or seven seconds, or more, when he brandished his sword at me, until he went towards the little room. On seeing that, Smithers rushed forward, and the moment he got near the door, I saw him struck. I was sure that he was killed. It was a stab—a thrust—he received. The sword was long, very bright, and triflingly turned at the end. It seemed sharp on both sides. He brandished it at me. The whole space of this time was not more than ten or twelve seconds. I saw the man with his sword, before I got to the top of the ladder. As soon as Davidson was secured, I returned to the place, and I then found the military had come. I left Davidson in a shop, with two of our people to take care of him. The prisoners were all disarmed, and I proceeded to tie them together. I was only a few minutes gone when I took Davidson. I stayed as little time as I possibly could.