Witness did not know him.
His Lordship said, some doubts were entertained by some part of the Court.
Mr. Solicitor-General said, he would not press it.
Witness went on.—Ings had two black belts on, one for two pistols, the other for cutlasses. He had two bags on his shoulders, like soldiers haversacks. He looked at himself and said, he was not complete yet, he had forgot his steel. He took out a large knife, and brandished it about, and said, it would cut off the heads of Castlereagh and Sidmouth, and it would be thought a great deal of at some future time. The knife was a large broad knife, twelve inches long, the hand bound round with wax to keep a firm hold of it. Others were busy at other arms. They began to leave the room about half-past four or five, to go about the business.
Palin came in half an hour before. Palin said they ought to be aware of what they were about, and to think within themselves whether they were to do their country service or not, and whether the assassination would be countenanced by their country. If they thought their country would join them, then the man who flinched should be run through on the spot. Unless they came to this determination they would do no good. A tall man came in, and asked what the business they were about was. Witness had never seen him before. The tall man said, if they were to serve their country, he was their man, and if any one was afraid of his life, he ought to have nothing to do with such a concern as that. Thistlewood was then gone. Brunt was told, that inquiries were made by some who were present, as to the plan they were about, Brunt said, that was not the room for telling that; but they should go with him, and they would know. Brunt promised spirits; and the tall man cautioned against drunkenness, as ruinous to a cause like that. They went along the street, two and two, and at some distance, that they might not be observed. There was a cupboard in the room used for swords, hand-grenades, and flannel bags for cartridges, one of which was full. The rest of the arms were in Tidd’s room; that was the depôt. Thistlewood was always in a hurry to carry every thing that was got ready into the depôt, lest any officer should see it. Witness carried a brass-barrelled blunderbuss. There were pikes made of old files. Witness as he went on missed all his associates. He returned back, and met Brunt, who returned back with him along the Edgeware-road, till they met Thistlewood.
They went altogether to the stable in Cato-street. Witness stayed behind till Harrison came up, and made him go in. He saw there, Davidson and Wilson below, Thistlewood, Ings, Hall, Bradburn, Strange, Cooper, the tall man, and others above. There were, as Thistlewood calculated, at last, eighteen above and two below. There was a bench above and arms on it. Some beer was standing on the table. There were lights. There was a chest. Before Tidd came, Thistlewood went out for some time. Witness heard a deal of talk below, and he found Thistlewood, Brunt, Harrison, Davidson, and Wilson. They spoke of the good news, they heard that the carriages were arriving at Lord Harrowby’s as fast as they could. Witness went up to the loft, and saw Thistlewood and Brunt much agitated. They spoke of Tidd’s absence. Brunt pledged his word that he would come. He soon afterwards came. Thistlewood said, “I hope you will not give up what you are going to do; if you do, this will be another Despard’s business.” He then counted twenty persons, and said that was enough, fourteen would be sufficient to go into the room, and the other six would take care of the servants and doors. They then set apart fourteen.
The gin bottle was then started. Thistlewood said, if Lord Harrowby had sixteen servants, that was nothing, as they would not be prepared. A noise was heard below. Thistlewood took a candle and looked down to see who they were, and then set down the candle quite confused, according to witness’s judgment. Two officers took command of the room, holding small pistols, and said, “A pretty nest there is of you. We have got a warrant to apprehend you all, and hope you will go peaceably.” A man who was on the step of the ladder said, “Let me come forward.” This was the man murdered. A group of persons had got into the little room, and then came forward, and one of them stretched forward an arm, witness saw nothing in it, and another presented a pistol. The man fell. It was impossible for him to give a particular account of the other transactions. He got away, went home, and was apprehended on the Friday, and remained in custody since. He identified Davidson, Wilson, Brunt, Ings, Cooper, Harrison, Tidd. There were two he did not know. They were again called forward, but he said he could not swear to them. He was sent forward near the dock: but he said he did not know them. One of them, he said, he saw at the meeting.
Cross-examined by Mr. Curwood.—He went not there to assassinate his Majesty’s Ministers. His legs carried him there. His outward intent to all appearance was for that; but his inward intent was against it. He was kept to it, because Brunt said, whoever forsook them would be marked. He became acquainted with Brunt in Cambray, in 1816. He had been a soldier years before. He was a shoemaker. He had never been treasurer to a benefit society. He carried with him 40l. He thought the money his own. He had never been charged with stealing it. He was introduced to Thistlewood by his friend Brunt, to assassinate his Majesty’s Ministers. That was the first object. He first gave information on the Saturday after. It was indeed from compunction. “My motive was, gentlemen of the Jury, I do assure you, that I made a vow to God that I should tell the whole truth. I did indeed regard it with horror. I felt compunctious visitings before I was in custody. It was not because I felt my neck in danger, or because I thought it was better eighteen should be hanged than myself.” The greatest number he ever saw present was fifteen men. The greatest sum he saw was sixpence. There was no collection of halfpence and pence for the newspaper. Tidd’s was the depôt. He saw no muster-roll, and no cannon-ball. The cannon were to be charged with cartridges, and a large hammer was to be bought to strike down the tops of the iron palisades, as it was thought they would do more execution than balls. The newspaper was “The New Times.” Witness did not know whether it was correct. He had seen nothing of Edwards since. He was employed to carry a sword, as being expert at it. He was not sufficiently near to have killed the man in the loft with the sword. His hand was not extended. He could tell nothing of the proceedings that followed. He went away, and did not deliver himself up, because he saw no officer. He went home to abide the event.
Re-examined in chief.—He said, the British army were at Cambray when he became acquainted with Brunt there.
Another witness was then called, but the Court and Jury were of opinion, as it was half-past seven, that it was the best time for adjourning. The Court was accordingly adjourned till nine o’clock on Tuesday morning.