This good Father was one day engaged in a Dispute with a Protestant Gentleman, about the Infallibility of the Pope; and there were many of both Religions present, amongst whom I was one. The Protestant was a Frenchman, called Jean Antony Guerin, a Doctor of Physick, and a very ingenious Gentleman; but one who excelled in the knowledge of the Holy Scripture, and did so well understand all the hard Passages of it, that the Ministers of his Religion did often take great pleasure to hear him discourse with so much ability about it.
The Dispute on the Catholick’s side was most spent in Words, he being able to answer to all the Protestant’s Reasons with nothing but a Negative, and say, It is not true, That is false.
But at last, as they grew warm, the Protestant pressing closer upon him, put this Question to him, on purpose because he saw him so ignorant. Whether or no it were easier for Christ to have err’d in delivering his Gospel, than for the Pope to erre in his Decrees?
At this the Monk smiled, and thinking to hit the nail on the head, answer’d him boldly, That he believed that Christ, as Man, might have erred; but that the Pope, as God, could not erre.
At this Answer the Protestant burst out a laughing, and so did some Swisser Ladies, who without doubt had more wit and discernment in matters of Religion, than this impertinent Monk. And thus the Dispute ceased; the Protestant contenting himself to have shewed the others Ignorance, and the Monk thinking he had answer’d most invincibly.
And indeed, in what Soul or Mind can this Opinion be receiv’d, That the Pope is more infallible than Christ; That God should fail in his Words, and a Pope be infallible in His Decrees? O Blasphemy, and horrible Error in the poor abus’d People! who give more credit to the Pope’s words, than to Christ’s own Gospel.
It has been observed, that in the Popes Families there has been Saints, even amongst their inferiour rank of their Servants; and yet there never was any of their Nephews Saints. I have turned over great Volumes of the Church-History, a purpose to see if amongst that great number of men, who are said to has performed Miracles, there were any one of a Nipotismo to be found amongst them: But truly I lost my pains; for the Popes, who have filled up the Roman Kalendar with thousands of Saints, have not yet been able to place one of their Nephews there. And indeed, how is it possible that they, that live in delight and greatness, should have room amongst those that have purchased their place in heaven by sufferings and poverty?
And me-thinks, it is a sad thing to observe for the Nephews, that all the harm the Church has received was from those amongst them that shewed the strongest Propension to Riches and Power: whereas all the good that has been done by them comes from those amongst them that have been moderate, and contented with ordinary riches. And now if we measure the good by these moderate men, and the ill by the insatiable, the number of the last being much greater than that of the first, will demonstrate to us that the damage the Church receives from the Nipotismo is much greater then the good they ever did or will do to it.
In the time that Urban the eighth Excommunicated the Lucheses for going about to repress the Insolence of Church-men in their State; all the Italian Princes sided with them, not out of any particular affection to them, but out of a politick reason, they being all concern’d in the loss of Lucca, for thereby the Ecclesiastick State and the pride of the Nipotismo would have been encreased. And yet no body for all this durst say any thing against the Pope’s Person or Authority, but lay all the fault upon the Nipotismo; As one day I heard a Senator of Venice discoursing in these words:
Italy has little reason to complain of the Popes, but it has a great deal to murmur against their Nephews. Urban would be good and holy if Francesco Antonio and Tadeo Barberini were not devils; but as his affection blinds him to them, so does their pride blind them in their conduct towards Princes. Because they have a Vail drawn over their eyes, they think that all the world must be one colour. And they are so busied from morning to night in disposing of that vast Treasure which they have already gathered, and in inventing new waies to purchase more, that they think not of getting the favour of those Princes who will remain such when the Barberins shall cease to be Lords and Masters. If their Interest had not so great an Empire over them they would govern the Church better; and in a word, the Church would be in them, and not they in the Church.