[Looks at her in surprise.] You don’t suppose I ever have anything to do with him? That I ever meet him? That I see anything of him?

Ella Rentheim.

Not even that!

Mrs. Borkman.

[As before.] The man who was in gaol, in gaol for five years! [Covers her face with her hands.] Oh, the crushing shame of it! [With increased vehemence.] And then to think of all that the name of John Gabriel Borkman used to mean! No, no, no—I can never see him again! Never!

Ella Rentheim.

[Looks at her for a while.] You have a hard heart, Gunhild.

Mrs. Borkman.

Towards him, yes.

Ella Rentheim.