In conclusion, let us compare with the testimony given in 1902, the testimony given in 1873, before the Select Committee on Civil Services Expenditure.
A Member of the Select Committee of 1873 asked Mr. W. E. Baxter, Financial Secretary to the Treasury: “Am I right in thinking that you do not agree with the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s declaration with regard to the Treasury? I asked him this question: ‘Then it is a popular delusion to believe that the Treasury does exercise a direct control over the expenditure of the Department?’ And the Chancellor replied: ‘I do not know that it is popular, but it is a delusion; I think that it would be much more popular that the Treasury should exercise no control at all.’” Mr. Baxter replied: “I think that the Chancellor stated it too broadly, and would, probably, if he had been Secretary to the Treasury for two or three years, have found that the Treasury did, in point of fact, go back to some extent over the old expenditure as well as try to stop increases.” A moment before, Mr. Baxter had said: “The most unpleasant part, as I find it, of the duty of the Financial Secretary to the Treasury is to resist the constant pressure brought day by day, and almost hour by hour, by Members of Parliament, in order to increase expenditure by increasing the pay of individuals, increasing the pay of classes, and granting large compensations to individuals or to classes.” The Chairman of the Committee queried: “And that pressure, which is little known to the public, has given you, and your predecessors in office, I presume, a great deal of thought and a great deal of concern?” Mr. Baxter replied: “As I said before, it is the most unpleasant part of my duties, and it occupies a very great deal of time which probably might be better spent.” At this point Mr. Sclater-Booth asked: “You spoke of the constant Parliamentary pressure which has been exercised with a view to increasing salaries or compensations, do you allude to proceedings in Parliament as well as private communications, or only to the latter?” Mr. Baxter replied: “I did in my answer only allude to private communications by letter and conversation in the House, because that was in my mind at the time. But of course my answer might be extended to those motions in the House which are resisted without effect by the Government, and which entail great expenditure upon the country.” Mr. Herman queried: “When you speak of the pressure put upon you by Members of Parliament for the increase of pay to classes, and the other points that you named, I suppose that you mean that it is partly party pressure, and that you are more subject to it at the present time than you would be if a Conservative Government were in power?” Mr. Baxter replied: “In my experience it has very little to do with party; men from all quarters of the House are at me from week to week.” “Do you mean to say that men opposed to you in political principles apply to you for that sort of thing now?” “Certainly I should wish it to be distinctly understood that they do not ask this as a favor; they do not ask favors of me. They simply wish me to look into the question of the pay of individuals and of classes of individuals, as they put it, with a view of benefitting the public service…. In very few instances since I have been Financial Secretary to the Treasury have I been asked by anyone to advance a friend, or to do anything in the shape of a favor. The representations are of this sort: ‘Here are a class of public officers who are underpaid. We wish you to look into the matter, and to consider whether or not it would be advantageous to the public service that their salary should be increased.’ I look into it, and I say that I am not at all of that opinion, upon which my friend tells me that he will bring the matter before the House, and show us up.” “And the other evil is one which is rapidly diminishing, and, in fact, is very small now, namely, interference in favor of individuals?” “Very small indeed.”
To a question from Mr. Rathbone, Mr. Baxter replied: “I do not think that the representations in question have much effect; I only stated that the most unpleasant part of my duties was resisting the pressure brought to bear in that way.” Thereupon Mr. Rathbone continued: “They may not have an effect when the Government has a majority of one hundred or so, or when there is no election impending, but do you think they have no effect when, as we have seen in former years for long periods, the Government is carried on, whether by one side or the other, by a very small majority, or when an election is impending?” Mr. Baxter replied: “I have no doubt that they have had the effect in former times in those circumstances.” “Do you think they would be liable to have that effect again if either party should be reduced to that condition?” “It may be so.” “Can you suggest any mode of abating the Parliamentary pressure to which you have alluded, whether it be exercised by public motions or by private influence?” The Financial Secretary to the Treasury replied: “No; it is an evil very difficult to remedy. I think the better plan would be to inform the constituencies on the subject and let them know the practice which so widely prevails, in order that, if inclined to take the side of economy, they may look after their Members of Parliament.” A moment later, Mr. Sclater-Booth asked: “Do you not think from what you have seen of the public service, that the Treasury, existing particularly for that purpose, is the body which must be permanently relied upon to keep down expenditure?” “Decidedly so.” “Even the constituencies can scarcely, as a rule, be appealed to in that sense, can they?” “No; I attach very much more importance to the power of the Treasury than either to the action of the House of Commons, or, I am sorry to say, to the voice of the constituencies.”[434]
FOOTNOTES:
[419] The subjoined statements, excepting the quotation from Mr. Austen Chamberlain, are taken from A. Todd: On Parliamentary Government in England.
[420] Sir Charles Wood, first Viscount of Halifax. Private Secretary to Earl Grey, 1830 to 1832; Financial Secretary to the Treasury, 1832 to 1834; Secretary to the Admiralty, 1835 to 1839; Chancellor of the Exchequer, 1846 to 1852; President of the Board of Control, 1852 to 1855; First Lord of the Admiralty, 1855 to 1858; Secretary of State for India, 1859 to 1866; raised to Peerage as Viscount Halifax in 1866; Lord Privy Seal, 1870 to 1874.
[421] Report from the Select Committee on National Expenditure, 1902; q. 2,516 to 2,605.
[422] Who’s Who, 1905, Fisher, Wm. Hayes, M. P., Financial Secretary to the Treasury, 1902-1903; Junior Lord of the Treasury, and a Ministerial Whip, 1895 to 1902; Hon. Private Secretary to Sir Michael Hicks-Beach, 1886 to 1887; and to Right Honorable A. J. Balfour, 1887 to 1892.
[423] Who’s Who, 1904, Murray, Sir G. H., Joint Permanent Under Secretary to the Treasury since 1903. Entered the Foreign Office, 1873; transferred to Treasury, 1880; Private Secretary to Right Honorable W. E. Gladstone and to Earl of Rosebery, when Prime Minister; Chairman Board of Inland Revenue, 1897 to 1899; Secretary to the Post Office, 1899 to 1903.
[424] Report from the Select Committee on National Expenditure, 1902; q. 1,631 to 1,673, and 1,730 to 1,732.