De Vio.—"The pope has authority and power over all things."
Luther, (keenly.)—"Save Scripture."[555]
De Vio, (ironically.)—"Save Scripture!... The pope, know you not, is above Councils? Even recently he condemned and punished the Council of Bâsle."
Luther.—"The university of Paris appealed."
De Vio.—"These Parisian gentry will pay the penalty."
The discussion between the cardinal and Luther afterwards turned on the second point, viz., on faith. This Luther declared to be necessary, in order to receive benefit from the sacraments, and, according to his custom, quoted several passages of Scripture in favour of the opinion which he maintained, but the legate received them with loud laughter. "It is of general faith you speak, then," said he.—"No!" replied Luther. One of the Italians, master of the ceremonies to the legate, out of all patience at Luther's opposition and his answers, was burning with eagerness to speak. He was constantly trying to break in, but the legate enjoined silence, and at last was obliged to reprimand him so sharply, that the master of the ceremonies left the hall in confusion.[556]
"As to indulgences," said Luther, "if it can be shown that I am mistaken, I am quite willing to be instructed. One may pass over that point without being a bad Christian, but on the article of faith, were I to yield a whit, I should be denying Jesus Christ. With regard to it, then, I am neither able nor willing to yield, and by the grace of God never shall."
De Vio, (beginning to lose temper.)—"Whether you will or not, you must this very day retract that article; otherwise for that article alone, I will reject and condemn all your doctrine."
Luther.—"I have no will apart from that of the Lord; He will do with me what pleases him. But had I five heads, I would lose them all sooner than retract the testimony which I have borne to holy Christian faith."
De Vio.—"I did not come here to reason with you. Retract, or prepare to suffer the pains which you have deserved."[557]