One day after this, he called me to his presence and began to threaten me in a most unusual manner. I said, "What do you wish of me, your reverence? What have I done, and what would you have me do? What is my sin, except that I conversed with some individuals, shewing them the errors of the church of Rome?" Then he requested me again, to say, that I believed as did that church, and said, grasping me firmly by the chin, "see how I will take you if you do not repent." I begged him to appoint some one to shew me the truth, by way of discussion, but he would not, and continued expressing his own sentiment, that we are bound to hold fast to the church, even to such a length, that if she should even reject the gospel, we should reject it too.
And here I wish to say a word to every reader that regards and loves the truth; how does such doctrine appear to you? and how could I believe in all which the Romish church holds, without knowing all of it? and how could I say, without a lie, that I believe, when I do not believe?
When I saw the patriarch breaking out with an exceeding loud and unusual voice, I was afraid that I should be found among "the fearful," (Rev. xxi. 8.) and rose to depart. When I reached the door, I turned and said to him, "I will hold fast the religion of Jesus Christ, and I am ready for the sake of it to shed my blood; and though you should all become infidels, yet will not I;" and so left the room.
One of my friends told me, that he had suggested to the patriarch the grand reason why I did not believe in the pope, which was, that among other doctrines of his, he taught, that he could not commit an error, and that now, though a pope should see any one of his predecessors had erred, he could not say this, for fear that he also should appear to be an unbeliever. This friend also told me, that the patriarch wondered how I should pretend that I held to the Christian religion, and still converse in such abusive terms against it; and I also wondered, that after he saw this, he should not be willing so much as to ask me, in mildness, and self-possession, and forbearance, for what reasons I was unwilling to receive the doctrines of the pope, or to say I believed as he did; but he would not consent that the above mentioned Armenian priest should hold a discussion with me, and more than this, laid every person, and even his own brother, under excommunication, if he should presume to dispute or converse with me on the subject of religion.
Under this prohibition from conversation, and this bereavement of books, from what quarter could I get the necessary evidence to believe in their opinion?
Another cause I had of wonder, which was, that not one of all with whom I conversed, after he saw me to be heretical and declining from the truth, thought proper to advise me to use the only means of becoming strong in the faith, viz. prayer to God the Most High, and searching his Holy Word, which a child may understand. I wondered, too, that they should ridicule me, and report me abroad as one mad and after all this, be so fearful to engage in a dispute with the madman, lest he should vanquish them in argument, or spoil their understandings, or turn them away from the truth.
After some time came the bishop of Beyroot. I gave him the usual salutation, and was greatly rejoiced to see him, as I knew the excellency of his understanding, and his quickness of apprehension, and hoped that, after some discussion between us, he would explain the truth, and that he would rest on clear evidence to support his views. But in this case also, I was disappointed; for one day, when I asked him a question, and during the whole short conversation which followed, whenever I began to bring evidence against him, he was angry, and finally drove me from my chamber in a fury, and that with no other cause, as he pretended, than that he did not wish to converse with a heretic.
Some time after this, Hoory Joseph Shaheen came down to the convent of Alma, and I endeavoured to get him to unite with me in persuading the patriarch to send out among the people preachers of the gospel, or that there should be preaching in the churches as before mentioned. But he would not co-operate with me in this, and I was again disappointed.
Then, when the patriarch and the bishop of Beyroot wished to dispute with me, I expressed the hope that the discussion might be in meekness, and without anger. It was concluded that the discussion should be in writing, that no one afterwards should be able to alter what he had once said. They then commenced by asking me questions; the first question was, in amount, this, "Has the Messiah given us a new law?" At first, I did not grant that he had, strictly speaking, given us a new law, and quoted the words of John, that "the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ;" but when I afterwards saw that by "a new law," they meant merely the gospel, or the New Testament, I answered in the affirmative. They then asked me if there was not to be found in this new law some obscurities. I answered, "Yes." They then asked me, Suppose any difference of sentiment should arise between the teachers of Christianity, how are we to distinguish the truth from the error? I answered thus;—"We have no other means of arriving at the truth, than searching the word of God, with learning, and reason, and inquiry of learned spiritual teachers, with purity of motive, and with disinterestedness of inclination. If the obscurities of the word of God cannot be understood by these means, our ignorance is excusable, and will not prevent our salvation. If the passages, which still remain obscure, concern faith, it is sufficient for a man to say, I believe according as the truth is in itself before God, or I believe in the thing as God inspired it to the writer. And if the obscurity respects our practice, after making use of the means above mentioned, if that branch of our practice be forbidden, or under a doubt, desist from it, but if it is not forbidden, do it, and Blessed is he that condemneth not himself in the thing which he alloweth."
After I had given them this answer, they brought no evidence to prove any error in it, and moreover afterwards never put to me any question to writing.