|More.| ❧ Then master More as towchynge the reason of repungnaunce sayeth, that many thynges may seame repungnaunte both to hym and me, which thynges God seeth how to make them stonde together well ynough, and addeth such blynde reasons of repungnaunce as induceth manye men in to a greate erroure: some ascrybynge all thynge vnto destenye without any power of mans fre wyll at all. And some genynge all to mans owne wyll. And haue no fore syght at all to the provydēce of God, and all because the poore blynde reason of man can not see so farre, as to perceyue how Goddes prescyence and mans fre wyll can stonde together, but seame clerelye to be repungnaunte.
|Fryth.| ¶ As for hys dygressyon of mans fre wyll, I wyll not greatlye wrestle with hym. But thys one thynge I maye saye, |Ioan. 8.| that yf the sone of God delyuer vs, then are we verye free. |2. Cor. 3.| And where the spyryte of God is, there is fredome. I meane not fredome to do what you wyll; but fredome |Rom. 6.| frō synne, that we maye be the saruaūtes of ryghtuousnes. But yf we haue not the spyryte of Christe, then wyll I saye with S. Austen, |Augustinus de spiritu & litera.| that our fre wyll is wretched, and can do nought but synne. And as towchynge suche textes of repugnaunce, yf they be so dyffuse that mans reason (which is the lyght of hys vnderstōdyng) can not attayne to set them together, then were you beste to make thē none artycles of our faythe. For I thynke as manye as are necessarye vnto our salvacyon, are conteyned in the Crede, which I thynke euery mā beleueth: I beseche you laye no bygger burthen vpon vs then those faythfull Fathers ded, which thought that suffycyent. And then I am sure, we shulde haue fewer heretykes. For I neuer harde of heretycke that euer helde agaynste any artycle of our Crede, but all that ye dyffame by thys name, are onelye put to death, because they saye that we are not bounde to beleue euerye poynte that the lawes and tyrannye of the cleargye alowe and maynteyne, which thynge how true it is (blessed be God) is meatelye well knowen alreadye. For els had I and many mo bene deade before thys daye.
|More.| ❧ I wote well that many good folke haue vsed in thys matter manye frutefull examples. As of one face beholden in dyuerse glasses, and in euerye peace of one glasse broken in to twentye, ād of one worde comynge whole to an hundreth eares at ones: and the syght of one lytle eye presently beholdynge an whole greate contrye at ones, with a thousande suche meruelles mo: suche as those that see thē daylye done (and therfore meruell not at thē) shall yet neuer be able, no not this yonge man hym selfe, to geue suche a reason by what meane they maye be done, but that he maye haue suche repugnaunce layde agaynste it, that he shalbe fayne in conclusyon (for the chefe and moste euydent reason) to saye, that the cause of all those thynges, is because God that hath so caused them to be done, is almyghtye of hym selfe, and maye do what hym lyste.
|Fryth.| ¶ As towchynge the examples that master More doth here alleage, I maye soone make answere vnto them. For they that are lyke our matter, make cleane agaynste hym, and the other can not make for hym. The glasse I graunte is a good example. For euen as the glasse dothe represent the verye face of man, so doth this sacrament represent the verye bodye and bloode of Christe. And lyke as euery peace of the glasse doth represent that one face, so doth euery peace of that sacrament represent that one bodye of Christe. But euerye mā knoweth ryght well, that thoughe the glasse represent my face, yet the substaunce of the glasse is not my verye face, neyther is my very face in the glasse. And euen so though the sacrament do represent the bodye of Christe, yet the substaunce of the sacrament is not hys verye bodye (no more then the glasse is my face) neyther is hys verye bodye in the sacrament, no more thē my verye face is in the glasse. And thus this example maketh well for vs. And for that one worde commynge whole to an hūdreth eares, I saye that worde is but a sounde ād a qualyte & not a substaunce, and therfore yt is nothynge to our purpose, and can not be lykened to Christes bodye which is a substaunce. And as concernynge the syght of the lytle eye, I say that though the eye dyscrye and see an whole contrye, yet is not that whole contrye in the eye: but as the contrye is knowen by the syght of the eye (though the contrye be not in it) so is the death of Christe and his bodye breakynge and bloode sheadynge knowen by the sacrament, though hys naturall bodye be not in it. And thus hys exāples make nothyng with hym, but rather moche agaynste hym. And where he sayeth that the yonge mā hym selfe cā geue no reasō, by what meane they may be done: I maye saye vnto hys mastershyppe, that whan I was seauen yeare yonger then I am thys day, I wolde haue bene ashamed yf I coulde not haue geuen an evydent reason at the Austēs in Oxforde before the whole vnyuersyte. And albeit I now wochesaue not to spende laboure and paper abought Aristotles doctryne, yet haue I so moche towched hys examples, that he may be werye of them.
|More.| ❧ Also I cā not see why it shulde be more repugnaunt that one bodye maye be by the power of God in two places at ones, then that two bodyes maye be together in one place at ones. And that poynte I thynke thys yonge man denyeth not.
|Fryth.| ¶ The beynge of our bodye in two places at ones is agaynste nature, and scrypture cā not allow it. But that two bodyes shulde be in one place seameth more reasonable. For I haue good experyence that though my bodye can not be in two places at ones (both in the tower and where I wolde haue it besyde) yet blessed be god in this one place, I am not without cōpanye. But yf master More meane that in one proper & severall place, maye be two bodyes at ones, that I wyll denye, tyll he haue laysure to proue it. And yet at the length I am sure, hys proue shall not be worth a podynge prycke. For I am sure it muste be, Ratione porositatis ut in igne & ferro: nam penetracionem dimensionum nunquam probabit. And then he is as nyghe as he was before.
|More.| ❧ Now hys laste reason wyth which he proueth yt impossyble for the bodye of christe to be in two places at ones, is this: You can (sayeth he) shewe no reason whye he shulde be in many places at ones & not in all. But in all places he can not be: Wherfore we muste cōclude that he can not be in many places at ones. This is a mervelous cōcluded argumente. I am sure that euery chylde may soone see that this consequent can neuer folowe vpō these two premysses of thys antecedent.
|Fryth.| ¶ When I made thys reason & compyled my tretyse I had no regarde to the cavyllacyons of sotle sophysters. For I thought no sophysters shulde haue medled wyth that meate. But neuerthelesse syth now I perceyue that they pryncipallye are porynge vpon yt, seakynge some praye to sette their teth a warke, in this boke I haue samwhat prouyded for thē, and haue brought suche harde bones, that yf they be to busye, maye chaunce to choke thē. And yet is not the argumēt so feable as he fayneth. For the fyrst part (if he lyst to cōsyder the sēce & mynde, & be not to curyous) where I say that they cā shewe no reasō why he shulde be in many places & not in all, is thus to be vnderstōd of wyse mē, that the very reasō & cause that he shulde be in many places must be, because the body is so ānexed with the godhed, that yt is in euery place as the Godhed is. Thys I saye, muste be the cause and reason of hys beynge in many places. And neyther you nor no man els cā iustely asygne any other. Now of this maior or fyrste proposycyon thus vnderstonde doth the conclusyon folowe dyrectlye. For yf this shulde be the cause (as they muste neades graūte) and thys cause proued false by scrypture: then muste they neades graunte that the thynge whiche so foloweth of this cause, muste neades be false. And so is my purpose proued, and they concluded. As by example. The Astronomers saye: that the naturall course of the sonne is from the Weste to the Easte. Nowe yf a man shulde aske them what ys then the cause that we see hym daylye take the contrary course, from the East to the Weste agaynste hys nature: they answere. Because the heyghest spere (whose course is from the Easte to the Weste) wyth hys swyfte movynge doth vyolently drawe the inferyoure speres with hym. This is the cause that they alleage, and no man can asygne any other. And now syth I can proue thys sense false by scrypture (for scrypture sayth that the spere is fastened Heb. viij and S. Austen expoundynge that texte improueth the Astronomers which affyrme that it moueth) they muste neades graunte that the thynge which foloweth of this cause muste neades be false. And so we maye conclude agaynste them all, that the naturall course of the sonne is not from the Weste to the East (as the Astronomers saye) but contrarye from the Easte to the Weste. And lykewyse syth the cause that Christes bodye shulde be in many places, is asygned of learned men to be, because hys bodye is so annexed with the Godhed (which is in euerye place) that it is also in all places with it, and no man can asygne any other. And this cause is proued false by scrypture. For when the women sought Christ at hys graue, an Angell gaue the answere that he was not there. |Mar. 14.| But yf hys bodye had bene in euery place, then had the Angell lyed. |Luc. 16.| Also Christ sayde vnto hys dyscyples of Lazarus which dyed at Bathania. |Ioan. 11.| Lazarus ys deade. And I am gladde for your sakes (that you maye beleue) because I was not there. Now yf hys body were in euery place as is the Godhed, then Christ sayde not trulye, when he sayde he was not there. Therfore syth (as I sayde) this is the cause asygned, and yet proued false by scrypture, they muste neades graunte, that the thynge which foloweth of this cause, muste also neades be false. And so we maye conclude agaynste them all, that Christes bodye is in one place onely. And now you maye see how my consequent folowe the premysses.
|More.| ❧ For he can no further cōclude, but that we can shewe no reason whye he shulde be in many places at ones. What had he wone by that: Myght he thā conclude thervpon, that he coulde not be in manye places at ones? As though yt were not possyble for God to make hys bodye in two places at ones, but yf we were able to tell how, and why, and wherbye, and shewe the reason.
|Fryth.| ¶ How farre I cā conclude is shewed immedyatly before. For though of the bare wordes as ye toke them, it was harde to conclude any thynge, yet haue I nowe declared them, and so farre concluded, that you can not avoyde them. And where he sayeth that though they can shewe no reason, yet I had wonne nought by it, I thynke he wolde be angrye yf I shulde so answere. But surely they are in good case, for yt is ynough for them to saye, thus it is, and neade neuer to shewe any cause or reason whye they so saye. For they are the churche and can not erre: so that yf they teache contrarye thynges, yet all is good ynough. And when they see that no man can make the scryptures to agre wyth their doctryne, then they saye, that their doctryne is true ynough, but no mā can vnderstōnde the scrypture. And though the scrypture seame neuer so repugnaunte both to them ād vs, yet God seeth well ynough (saye they) how to sette thē together, and it is possyble for God to make it agree, though they can not tell how. But thys doctryne hath longe ynough deceyued vs. For mē haue seane to lōge wyth your spectacles, yet now (thankes be to God) they begynne to see with their owne eyes. And as towchyng how thys matter was possyble to God and how it is not possyble, is suffycyently declared before to all them that lyste to loke.