Where?—In Scotland. This first led me to inquire into the general method of road-making, and the expense of it. Since that period, I have been mostly in Bristol, where I was also appointed a commissioner of the roads; the very defective state of which could not fail to attract my attention. I was induced to offer myself to the commissioners, to take charge of the roads as a surveyor, because I found it impossible for any individual commissioner to get the roads put into a situation of being, mended with any prospect of success; and no individual could incur the expense of making experiments on a great scale. The roads of Bristol were accordingly put under my direction in the month of January 1816.
That was when you were appointed surveyor?—Yes, I have travelled at various times, during the lost twenty years, to ascertain which are the best roads, and which the best means of road-making over the whole kingdom, from Inverness in Scotland to the Land’s End in Cornwall. I have obtained all the information that an unauthorized person could expect to receive. In the course of travelling through the country, I have generally found the roads in a very defective state, certainly much worse in particular parts of the country than in others; and in particular counties I have found some parts of the roads much worse than in other parts of the same county. The defects of the roads appear to me to proceed from various causes, but principally from the large use of a mixture of clay and chalk and other matters, that imbibe water, and are affected by frost. Such roads become loose in wet weather, so as to allow the wheels of carriages to displace the materials, and thereby occasion the roads to be rough and rutty. More pains, and much more expense, have been bestowed on the roads of late years, but without, in my opinion, producing any adequate effect, from want of skill in the executive department. I consider the roads in South Wales, in Monmouthshire, in Cornwall, in Devonshire, in Herefordshire, in part of Hampshire, in part of Oxfordshire, and some part of Gloucestershire, are managed with the least skill, and consequently, at the heaviest expense. The paved roads of Lancashire appear to be very unprofitable, and very expensive. I shall mention to the Committee a few roads which I think in a better condition and under a better system of management. Eastward of Bridgewater in Somersetshire, near Kendal in Westmoreland, and near North Allerton, in Yorkshire, the roads appear to be in a much better state than in other parts of the kingdom; and there is a striking difference in the moderate rate of their tolls, which I have always found most moderate where the roads are best managed. I consider the reason of the roads in those parts being in a better condition than in other places, is from greater skill and attention being paid to the preparation of the materials and the manner laying them on the roads.
Does the superiority of roads, in certain places that you have mentioned, arise from their better materials in those neighbourhoods?—No; the same material is found in many parts of the kingdom with much worse roads.
Then, in general, you impute the badness of the roads solely to the applying of the materials?—Yes.
And also to the formation of the roads?—That I consider as part of the application of the materials.
Has there prevailed of late years a general spirit of improvement, in different parts of the country, with regard to the roads?—I think there has, and particularly in the west country.
What instances have come within your own knowledge?—The roads immediately round the city of Bristol to the extent of 148 miles, round Bath to the extent of 49 miles, between Cirencester and Bath to the amount of 32 miles, the roads of nine trusts in the eastern parts of Sussex amounting to 97 miles, at Epsom in Surrey amounting to 20 miles, at Reading in Berkshire six miles, amounting in the whole to 352 miles, have been put into a very good condition; in addition to which, there are now under repair, five trusts in Wiltshire and Berkshire, amounting to 108 miles; six trusts in Middlesex, Cambridge and Huntingdon, amounting to 91 miles; six trusts in Devonshire, Buckinghamshire and Glamorganshire, amounting to 129 miles; making a total of 328 miles under repair. These are roads that have been mended, or are now mending, under directions which I have given, or which have been given by my family.
You are not particularly acquainted with the improvements taking place under the management of other persons?—Not particularly; but I have some knowledge of some of them from circumstances.
You have not taken under observation the great road to Holyhead?—No; that I understand is a new road. You asked me with respect to the spirit of improvement; I would wish to explain in what way I think that is proceeding. I have been sent for and consulted by 34 different sets of commissioners, and as many different trusts, and in 13 counties, to the extent of 637 miles, all of whom have been making improvements, and I have had many sub-surveyors instructed and sent to various parts of the country, at the request of commissioners; many surveyors also in the neighbourhood where improvements are making, have availed themselves of the opportunity of having instruction. Thus the surveyors of Southampton and that neighbourhood have attended to what is doing at Salisbury and Wilton; thus the surveyors at Kingston and Guildford have profited by the improvements at Epsom in Surrey.
On which road are the 20 miles that you mentioned at Epsom?—From Epsom to Tooting, and then across the country to Kingston. Several surveyors near Reading in Berkshire have imitated, with considerable success, the improvements on that road. Mr. Clay, who has contracted for the repair of the Kingsland road near London, engaged a young man who was in my office at Bristol, Mr. Marshal, whom he sent afterwards to Leeds in Yorkshire. It has been my study to give every facility to spread information.