'Well,' I replied, 'we could not do anything which resembled a protective system if we wished, because we were bound by the treaties forced upon us, whereby our custom-house duties, all prefixed, could not exceed five per cent. ad valorem; but as far as it lay in the competence of our Government and people, we did all in our power. You cannot imagine what money, what time, and what labour we have had to waste in many ways, because there were many things which we tried and in which we failed. What we have achieved is insignificant, but it is the result of all those exertions. By the bye, the question of the revision of the old treaties was a long protracted subject of our diplomacy and politics through which we had to struggle. It wrecked several ministries. One minister for foreign affairs, Count Okuma, lost one of his legs and only miraculously escaped death, in consequence of having been inclined to accept terms of revision which the people considered insufficient and irreconcilable with national dignity. The aim of the revision was to regain the tariff as well as judicial autonomy. America had shown very early its inclination to accede to our demand. Italy also showed a similar inclination. But on the whole the matter proved very difficult. About ten years ago Great Britain took the lead in recognising the justice of our demand, other powers followed England's example, and thus the revision was at last effected. That revision restored to us our judicial autonomy completely. You must, however, remember that the tariff autonomy has not yet been entirely restored to us, for we are still bound by one-sided conventional tariffs. But I must now return to the original thread of my discourse. You have already seen that we were hampered by the treaties, but in spite of that we have taken every pains to promote our commerce and industry, without falling into the error of over-interfering or being officious.'

—'And you have made wonderful progress in your commerce in a comparatively short time,' said another.

—'Well, not wonderful,' I answered; 'but it is a fact that our commerce has increased from a few million yen to some six hundred million yen. That is something. I will add a word more. It is a mistake to suppose that the stage we have attained is the mere result of natural growth. We must venture to ask for sympathetic appreciation of our endeavour. Some Western people appear to entertain a sort of apprehension in regard to the growth of our commerce and industry, and even show a desire to check our progress. It would be very hard lines for us, for our conviction is that the growth of our commerce and industry can only be beneficial reciprocally to others as well as to ourselves; and, moreover, what is after all our commerce and industry when compared with that of the Western peoples?'

—'I quite sympathise with you on that point,' said one.

—'Thank you!' I said, and continued. 'Some foreigners speak of our commercial probity very disparagingly. I admit there were some shortcomings, but I deny that the faults were wholly ours. You know that the greater bulk of our Japanese commerce is done in Japan itself by the Western merchants who come out there. If we were always cheating them, and they were always blameless, why should they continue to trade with us and make such great increase of commerce in a comparatively short space of time? It is my opinion that the blame attached to the commercial probity of the Japanese merchant has far less foundation than the reality warrants. A good deal of the blame, I think, is a hearsay, originally circulated by interested persons and innocently magnified by others. Time was when our merchants wellnigh revolted against oppressive dealings of foreign merchants out there, and tried to export direct to foreign countries, but then want of capital and experience stood in their way as a barrier. On the whole, I am satisfied with the progress our commerce has made, as well as with the fact that its volume has increased in spite of the war, though we must endeavour to still further it.'

—'That your country will have to do,' said another; 'but will you tell me the condition of the communications of the country at the time of the abolition of the feudal system, and the improvements you have made since then?'

—'The means of communication,' I replied, 'were not good in those days. We are surrounded by seas on all sides, but we were unable to make the fullest use of the water, because the building of large ships was prohibited for centuries, and therefore our ships had much difficulty in navigating the eastern coasts, as well as the Japan Sea, especially in winter. They often had to remain several months in some port on their route. On the land, roads were not good, they were often badly made on purpose by the different lords for the defence of their territories. Thus, even where a straight road could be made on flat land, it was purposely made high up on the hills in a winding way. Rivers were often left bridgeless where bridges could easily have been constructed. Foreign visitors may think our roads even now bad when compared with those of the Western civilised countries; but in our eyes our present roads are beyond any comparison with those of some thirty or forty years ago. This also means that our central Government, as well as our local governments, had to take much pains and spend much money in the matter. We had also to encourage the building of large ships, both steam and sailing vessels. We have built many lighthouses round the country for the benefit of the navigation of foreign ships as well as for our own.'

—'What of the railways, telegraph, and telephone lines?' asked one.

'Not many years after the restoration we began the construction of the railways. The line between Yokohama and Tokio was the first and most expensive of any of the railways constructed in Japan, for, owing to the lack of experience, we had to pay whatever price we were asked by foreigners for the materials. The next line was one between Kobe and Osaka, and the system has been gradually extended as the finances of the Government have allowed. But finding that the rapid extension to every part of the country was beyond the financial expediency of the Government, private enterprises were encouraged, and many private railway companies were established one after another. Thus we have two kinds of railways, one belonging to the Government, the other belonging to private companies. When I was Minister of Communications eight years ago, the whole length of the railways, state and private, reached three thousand miles. There was some talk of celebrating the occasion, but both Matsumoto, Director of the Board of Railways, and I discountenanced the idea, because three thousand miles of railway were nothing compared with other advanced countries. The extension at present is between four and five thousand miles, I think. The length is not much, but because the country is narrow, every part of it is within easy reach of the train. The telegraph lines belong to the Government entirely, and are managed in conjunction with the general postal system. Soon after the inauguration of the Imperial Government, we began to remodel the postal system which had existed previously, and it has been gradually expanded and improved on the European method. I can say without much diffidence that our postal and telegraph systems may be compared in efficiency with any country, even the most advanced in those matters. The telephone system is comparatively new, but most of the populous towns have it, and large towns are connected by distant telephones. Needless to say that we have managed from the beginning to maintain the system in the hands of the Government.'

—'The Imperial Government seems to have required much money,' said one, 'for winding up the feudal Governments, and for introducing, side by side, many reforms. You also mentioned that the Government had to issue paper money. I should like to know more about how you got through it all.'