THe authoritie of the holie Fathers is obiected against The holy Fathers say that soules appear. Ambrose. Augustine. Gregorie. vs, as that which Saint Ambrose writeth of Saint Agnes, and Saint Augustine of Saint Felix, of which we haue spoken before. And that which Abdias hath in the life of the Apostles, that Thomas appeared after his death and preached. Saint Gregorie in his Dialogues, doth write diuerse and wondrous things, among others he rehearseth many examples of the dead which appeared, and desired helpe of certaine Saintes, yea and of the Apostles themselues, whiche haue visited some vppon their death beddes, a little before they departed, and many other suche lyke matters, which they that list may read themselues. It is saide that Hierome appeared to Saint Augustine.
I will not in this place accuse the holie Fathers of vanitie, yet this we must note, they say not they haue beléeued that they whiche appeared, were the soules of dead Many things fabulous in Gregories Dialogues. men, but they spake after the common manner. As touching S. Gregories Dialogues, I cannot hide, this (which many haue noted before mee) that many things are conteined in them that are nothing true, but altogither like old wives tales. Not because the holie Father hath written these things of malice, but for that he being too too credulous, hath put many things into his bookes, rather vppon other mens report, than that he himselfe knew them certainly to be true.
At this day also there are many honest and godlie men which haue this faulte, that they are too quicke of beléefe, and altogither ruled by others. They iudge other men by themselues, they would be ashamed to reporte any thing that were false, and thinke suche men in like manner to be affectioned, which doe abuse their simplicitie and goodnesse. Oftentimes these men, through their too muche lightnesse of beléefe, fall into great daungers.
Moreouer, in that age wherin Gregorie liued, men began to attribute much to those apparances and visions. And at that time the true and sincere Doctrine began greatly to decay. Truly the time in which a man happens to liue, is much to be regarded: he himselfe confessed that his times was the latter times. Therefore the Scriptures shoulde haue béene more diligently lent vnto, neither should any thing haue bene retained that was not agréeable vnto them. Some going about to excuse him, for that he hath stuffed his Dialogues ful of miracles and wonders, say he did it to mollifie by those examples, the peruerse and hard hearts of the Longobardes, to the end they might embrace the true Religion, which they had so greeuously persecuted. But that it is in no wise profitable to make knowen the true faith, by these helpes which are nothing else but vaine tales, euen Viues himselfe, in his first booke De tradendis disciplinis doth acknowledge.
Counsells approue the appearing of Soules.
Some vrge vs with the authoritie of counsels, which haue allowed certain apparances of soules, and haue suffered some bookes, whiche are extant of such apparitions, to be read for the edifying of the simple, and some againe togither with their visions, they haue cleane reiected.
Councels may erre.
It is reported that the Counsell of Constance, hath allowed this vision:
A certaine Deane when he had giuen ouer his Deanrie, went into the Wildernesse to doe penaunce: after his deathe he appeared to his Bishop, and tolde him that the same houre in which he departed this life, there died thirtie thousand men, among whome only his soule and S. Barnarde were made partakers of eternall saluation, and thrée went into Purgatorie, and all the rest into endlesse damnation. &c. They say that Councels & the churche cannot erre, because they are guided by the holy Ghost. Matth.24. Also in the 24. of Matthew, the Lord doth say in the later dayes there shalbe signes and wonders, that the very elect if it were possible might be seduced, therefore they conclude those things which Councels do saye of such apparitions, are to be beléeued. Christs words are not so to be vnderstood that the chosen can neuer be broughte into errors (for the contrary may be shewed by many examples) but that they do not abide in erroure, albeit some do very hardly get out of the same againe. Tell me, I pray you, who they were that came togither in auncient Councels? were they not holy fathers? It is manifest that in many points they were at variaunce among themselues, and that they haue shewed by their contrary writings: yea and many times they are contrary to themselues, and therfore they haue not alwaies thought aright. Sometime they send vs to the word of God, as to the most certaine rule and leauell of faith. There are examples inough, by which it may be shewed, that the old Councelles haue erred in some of their determinations. The Councell of Ariminum hath allowed the Arrians doctrine. The second Ephesin councell did subscribe to Eutiches. The Councell holden at Carthage, which Cipriā gathered, pronounced flatly against the scriptures, &c. What shall we say was done in latter times? It is well inough knowen by histories who hath resisted Councels, and ruled them, and what hath bene chiefly handled in them for certaine hundred yeares: And what for the most parte hath by and by followed after them, euen cruel warres and bloudy slaughters. If nowe those auncient Councels coulde erre, who will maruaile that they which haue assembled since haue erred? But as touching the apparitions, that I may (all other things omitted) talke only of them, tell me I pray you who should certifie the Councels, whether this or that vision were true or false? Certainly no Councels can bring to passe that the lyes which haue bene scattered abroade, shall now begin to be true tales, although they of the Councel haue saide they are true.