Mr. Mitchell: In England there are less suits under the English employers' liability law than there were three or four years ago, and every year shows a less number. On the other hand, there are a great number under the compensation act. That demonstrates that in England, even with the double liability, the men are not suing under the employers' liability law.
Dr. Allport (Illinois): I can give you the figures on the employers' liability law and workmen's compensation act for 1908, and that may perhaps enlighten the Conference in regard to the exact status of the act at this time. Out of 2065 deaths in trade accidents in 1908, only 524 out of those cases were made the basis of proceedings, or not much more than one-fourth of them, in the county courts, and only 12 suits were brought for damages under the employers' liability law. In other words, only 12 of those 524 suits took advantage of the old Gladstone act to bring a suit for damages under the double liability.
Prof. F. S. Deibler: I think a great many of the suits that come up in England are suits to determine whether the accidents occurred in due course of employment.
Chairman Mercer: I have a letter from Mr. Gillette that does not exactly come under this heading, but I think you may be glad to hear it at this time. It reads as follows:
Minneapolis, Minn., June 9, 1910.
Mr. H. V. Mercer, City.
Dear Sir: Our study abroad developed a few things that stand out so clearly that I should like to have you know them before you go to Chicago. They are matters that ought to be carefully safeguarded in legislation of this kind.
First, the cost. Even after the act is most carefully drawn and the compensations are restricted to the utmost, the cost is bound, in my opinion, to be two or three times as great as under the present system. This means, of course, that the compensations must not exceed one-half wages in any event, and the death benefits must be limited as well as compensations for total disability. The payments to children must be graded according to the number, with an outside limit and there must be a waiting period without compensation at any rate not less than two weeks, and I think thirty days before benefits begin, and these benefits must not be retroactive in case the disability extends beyond the two weeks or the thirty days. In other words, every economy must be inserted and even then I believe the cost will be increased from two to two and one-half times.
Then the doctor question wants to be carefully considered. France is having a serious time over the doctor question. It is the curse of their system, and they are also experiencing great difficulty with the matter in Germany and England. If the English law had been left the way Mr. Chamberlain intended it, so that an independent doctor could have been called in at the request of either instead of both parties, it would have saved them all kinds of trouble.
Then there is another matter that ought to be carefully considered, and that is the matter of discrimination against agent or employe physically imperfect. The situation in England to-day is beginning to force a physical examination of employes. Mr. Holmes of the Hosiery Workers' Federation stated to me that in his opinion there were 150,000 English workmen who could not obtain employment by reason of excessive age or physical imperfections.
They are having a lot of difficulty in Germany over various questions arising out of their law. Over 17 per cent. of the claims get into litigation. This looks rather discouraging to us. Of course this arises largely from the fact that this litigation costs the workmen nothing.
I should like to write a few hundred pages on this subject, but I haven't time.
You might be interested to know that while in England the risks are practically all insured in private companies, the cost to the employer is less in England than it is in Germany, France or Austria. In France about 25 per cent. of the risks are not insured, and of the remainder about 60 per cent. are carried in private insurance, and 40 per cent. in mutual companies. The conditions and character of the workmen are so different over there from those existing in America that it is pretty hard to estimate the comparative costs if one of the foreign acts was transmitted to this country. Beside that the rates of wages are very much lower, although of course the benefits, being based on the wage rate, are nearly in proportion.
The above estimate of cost of two and one-half times our existing cost is based on a contribution of 20 per cent. by the workmen. It looks as if the thing would have to resolve itself into a matter of some form of mutual insurance, both employer and employe contributing to the cost, or with a waiting period or else a longer waiting period, and a fund provided by the employers to take care of the accidents, the employes providing a fund to take care of sickness and temporary disabilities during the waiting period.
I am now having my notes written up, and will soon have a table of the comparative costs in England, Germany, Belgium, Austria and France, and possibly Denmark and Sweden.
Yours very truly,
George M. Gillette.
Chairman Mercer: I have not heard yet from Mr. McEwen. He is the labor commissioner, and I was in hopes that we would have a letter from him as well as this letter from Mr. Gillette.
The next question is the proposition of compensation; that is, whether you will have a limited sum or a pension plan, or what you will have.
William H. Moulton (Michigan): In the iron and copper mining region of Michigan for a great many years we have had a plan of payments to which the men and the employers have contributed equally. These payments have been made monthly to the men during disability, and in any event they should not be made at any longer intervals than once a month. These sums have continued for a year, and in case of death, a death benefit has been paid from this fund.
The mining companies are very much interested in this compensation law. This is evidenced by the voluntary action of the harvester company and the United States Steel and some of our other independent companies. The Cleveland-Cliffs Iron Company, which I represent, have been contributing in this way for a great many years at all of our mines. We employ now perhaps 3000 or 4000 men, and another thing which is of advantage to them is this: We found it was a common custom when a man was killed in a mine for the men to stop work until the day of the funeral, no matter whether our boats were lying idle waiting for cargoes or not. I think you will all agree with me that we generally get what we pay for, and if we expect a man to do something for us we expect to pay for it. Our proposition to the men was this: They stopped work out of sympathy for this man who had been killed. We suggested to them that it would be more an act of sympathy to follow out this plan, that they should continue at work until the day of the funeral and we would pay them for all the time they worked, and then if they took a half-day off for the funeral we would pay them for that half-day just as though they worked, but that this amount of money should be a contribution from them to the family of the man who had been killed. The last amount that I remember that was paid in that way was $298 which that family received in addition to the benefit fund. Our company also is paying to the widow and orphans the sum of $12 a month to the widow and $1 a month for each additional child under the age of 16 years, for a period of five years or until the widow remarries. This is done with the idea that by the time the children have reached the age of 21 they can support the family.
We also endeavor to reduce accidents by frequent inspections of our mines and monthly reports, and periodical inspections also, and in case of any serious accident we have a committee who visits the scene of that accident, carefully inquires into the cause of it and makes a recommendation for the benefit of that mine and of all our other mines.