Proceedings, Third National Conference Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents

by National Conference on Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents

Prof. Seager: The characteristics of the two bills that have passed in New York were explained yesterday, and I will try to avoid repeating what was said at that time. When it comes to the details of the plan that the New York Commission recommended, and which the Legislature has adopted, the reasons why we did this rather than that are almost trivial, because they were always practical reasons of expediency. We have a Commission of fourteen members, and eight of them were members of the Legislature; one of them was a farmer; several of them were lawyers, and two of them were employers, so they represented in a very broad way the different interests of the State. It would have been quite impossible to get that Commission to agree on a plan that would include the farmers. It was difficult to get the employers to agree on our plan.

Taking up the details, however, we were very much impressed by the aspect of the case that Mr. Lowell spoke of a few minutes ago; that is, the uncertainty as to what it would cost and the opposition that developed against the measure because of that uncertainty. For that reason we felt that we ought to make the probable cost as definite as we could, and that meant requiring lump sum payments rather than continuous payments, limiting the period during which the continuous payments should be made in case of disability, and in other points making the measure precise and definite, when, from the point of view of the social interests of the community, it ought to be more vague and indefinite, that it might be adapted to the requirements of each special case. It was on those grounds of expediency, remembering all the time that this was the first step, that if the Legislature of New York passed these bills it would be the first State in this country to go in for any kind of workmen's compensation, and that every country which has adopted this policy has found it necessary to amend and modify as the result of experience, that the schedule which we finally agreed upon took the form that it did; that is, limiting the compensation in case of disability to not more than $10 a week, and to continue in case of a permanent disability for not more than eight years. In death cases not more in the aggregate than four years' wages, and not to exceed in any case $3000. That schedule has the advantage of being definite and of being one which enables the insurance actuary without much difficulty to name a rate, and, needless to say, we got such rates from the insurance company's representatives before we finally decided on that schedule.

As to the administrative features of our bills, our difficulty was to devise a plan which would do away with litigation and at the same time be constitutional. We all of us recognized the merits of some scheme of arbitration as preferable to court procedure, and yet the more we looked into it, and the more we studied the complexities of our system in New York, the more we were impressed with the necessity of creating an entirely new system of jurisprudence, if we were going to have in that State a scheme of arbitration comparable to the English scheme of arbitration. For that reason we left that to future amendment of the bill, and left the judicial procedure very much as it is under the employers' liability law, believing that under a law requiring definite compensation, both employer and employe, for their own interests, would keep away from litigation, and would enter into voluntary arrangements for arbitration that would not require a resort to the courts. Resort to the courts may be taken by either side under these bills as before, but it is our confident belief that it will not be taken, and that this plan will very greatly reduce the litigation, and at the same time greatly increase the number of reasons these bills took the form which they have taken.

Mr. Harper (Illinois): Do you provide that in case any question arises under the compensation plan, suit may be brought and the merits tried in an action at law?

Prof. Seager: Yes.

Mr. Harper: And you also provide, I believe, that no jury trial shall be permitted?

Prof. Seager: No; such a provision was in the original bill, but was stricken out of the act. I am sorry that I am not a lawyer, and, therefore, cannot explain the point definitely, but the other provision was simply to make it possible to bring suit and recover a lump sum in case there was any default in the periodic payments required in cases of disability. That is, in case of default in the payments under this provision the employe or the dependent entitled to payment can immediately bring suit and collect a lump sum in damages.

Senator Sanborn (Wisconsin): We have appreciated in Wisconsin all these troubles and oppositions you have been discussing here, and have been trying to find some way that we can put a law into operation in Wisconsin so that we can have some basis for improvement hereafter, realizing at the outset we were going to meet the opposition of the manufacturers if they did not know exactly what it would cost. If we were going to get their hearty support the rates would have to be so low that they would know it was not going to cost them any more than at the present time. On the other hand, we realized that the laboring man does not want to give up anything he has got, but wants more. That he is entitled to more than he is receiving under the law everybody, I think, will concede. The question was, how were we going to accomplish that and get for the laboring man all that he would get under the law.

We realized that practically 60 per cent. of every dollar that was paid out by the employers for industrial accidents under the present system was wasted and did not go to the laboring man, and if we could bring about a system which would prevent anywhere near that great amount of waste, and turn that money over to the laboring man who was injured, we felt that we would be taking one great step in advance, and we are trying now to get a system by which that can be done. In fact, we want to do away entirely with court proceedings, if possible.

The first step we propose to take in this regard is to change the law generally in our State, so that the manufacturer will feel that he must have relief. In order to reach that result we are going to make them all liable for the negligence of the fellow-servants and strike out the assumption of risk. We have practically agreed on that, and that leaves the only defense remaining for the employer, that of contributory negligence. That will reach a great many cases, and leave it so that the manufacturer will feel that he must have some relief.