Absurdities of immaterialism

by Orson Pratt

"All the foregoing statements in relation to the person of the Father, are equally applicable to the person of the Son.

"The Holy Spirit being one part of the Godhead, is also a material substance, of the same nature and properties in many respects, as the spirits of the Father and Son. It exists in vast immeasurable quantities, in connexion with all material worlds. This is called God in the Scriptures, as well as the Father and Son. God the Father and God the Son cannot be everywhere present; indeed they cannot be even in two places at the same instant: but God the Holy Spirit is omnipresent—it extends through all space, intermingling with all other matter, yet no one atom of the Holy Spirit can be in two places at the same instant, which in all cases is an absolute impossibility. It must exist in inexhaustible quantities, which is the only possible way for any substance to be omnipresent. All the innumerable phenomena of universal nature are produced in their origin by the actual presence of this intelligent all-wise and all-powerful material substance called the Holy Spirit. It is the most active matter in the universe, producing all its operations according to fixed and definite laws enacted by itself, in conjuction with the Father and the Son. What are called the laws of nature are nothing more nor less than the fixed method by which this spiritual matter operates. Each atom of the Holy Spirit is intelligent, and like other matter has solidity, form, and size, and occupies space. Two atoms of this spirit cannot occupy the same space at the same time. In all these respects it does not differ in the least from all other matter. Its distinguishing characteristics from other matter are its almighty powers and infinite wisdom, and many other glorious attributes which other materials do not possess. If several of the atoms of this Spirit should exist united together in the form of a person, then this person of the Holy Spirit would be subject to the same necessity as the other two persons of the Godhead, that is, it could not be everywhere present. No finite number of atoms can be omnipresent. An infinite number of atoms is requisite to be everywhere in infinite space. Two persons receiving the gift of the Holy spirit, do not each receive at the same time the same identical particles, though they each receive a substance exactly similar in kind. It would be as impossible for each to receive the same identical atoms at the same instant, as it would be for two men at the same time to drink the same identical pint of water." (Kingdom of God. Part I, page 4.)

From this extract it will be perceived that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are believed by us to be three distinct material substances, the same in kind, but not the same in identity. The person of the Father is a body of Spirit, consisting of parts. Mr. Taylder enquires, "What does the author mean by 'the elementary materials of his body?' Is his body a compounded substance, capable of being reduced to original and simple elements?" We answer that the elements of his body are the different parts of which it consists. The whole, being "compounded" of "elementary" parts.

The Godhead may be further illustrated by a council, consisting of three men—all possessing equal wisdom, knowledge, and truth, together with equal qualifications in every other respect. Each person would be a separate distinct person or substance from the other two, and yet the three would form but ONE council. Each alone possesses, by supposition, the same wisdom and truth that the three united or the ONE council possesses. The union of the three men in one council would not increase the knowledge or wisdom of either. Each man would be one part of the council when reference is made to his person; but the wisdom and truth of each man would be the whole wisdom and truth of the council, and not a part. If it were possible to divide truth, and other qualities of a similar nature into fractions, so that the Father should have the third part of truth, the third part of wisdom, the third part of knowledge, the third part of love, while the Son and the Holy Spirit possessed the other two-thirds of these qualities or affections, then neither of these persons could make "one God," "but only a part of a God." But because the divisibility of wisdom, truth, or love is impossible, the whole of these qualities dwell in the Father—the whole dwells in the Son—the whole is possessed by the Holy Spirit. "The Holy Spirit is one part of the Godhead" in essence; the whole of God in wisdom, truth, and other similar qualities. If a truth could become three truths, distinct from each other, by dwelling in three persons or substances, then there would be three Gods instead of one. But as it is, the Trinity is three in essence but one in truth and other similar principles. The oneness of the Godhead, as described in the Scriptures, never was intended to apply to the essence, but only to the perfections and other attributes.

If the Father possess infinite wisdom and knowledge, why, some may ask, can he not get along with his work without the assistance of the Son and Holy Spirit? We answer, the Son is necessary to reconcile fallen man to the Father: the Holy Spirit is necessary to sanctify and purify the affections of men, and also to dwell in them as a teacher of truth. Immense quantities of this substance are also necessary in order to be present in connexion with all other substances, to control and govern them according to fixed and definite laws that good order and harmony may obtain in every department of the universe. The Father and Son govern the immensity of creation, not by their own actual presence, but by the actual presence of the Spirit. The union of the three does not give any additional wisdom and knowledge to either, but by the union, they are able to carry on certain works which could not be carried on by one singly. One singly, as for instance the Father, could have power to do all things not inconsistent with his perfections and attributes, that is, he could act where he was present, but without the assistance of the Holy Spirit or some other being, he being a person, could not act where he is not present. By the union of the three, each is able to act in all places through the assistance of the others. The persons of the Father and Son can be in heaven, and yet, through the agency of the spirit, act upon the earth. An omnipresent person is impossible, but an omnipresent substance, diffused through space, is not only consistent, but reasonable. Persons through the medium of such an all-wise and all-powerful substance, can exercise Almighty power, at the same time in the most distant departments of creation. Without such a substance with which they were in union, they could not carry on the grand and powerful operations of universal nature; for no substance can act where it is not present.

Perhaps the objector may refer to matter attracting matter as a proof that it can act where it is not present. But we are bold to affirm that such a thing as attraction cannot possibly exist. For matter to draw distant matter towards itself, and consequently act where it is not present, would be as utterly impossible as it would be for a person to be in two or more places at the same time. All the phenomena of universal gravitation can be accounted for upon principles infinitely more simple and consistent, than to ascribe to matter the impossible power of acting where it is not present. The author may, at some future time, give his views with regard to the powers of nature, and the laws by which it is governed. But to enter in this work into a full development of our theory in relation to those intricate though sublime subjects, would be a digression foreign to the objects we have in view in this treatise.

No doubt many apparent objections to our views of the Godhead will arise in the minds of many who nave been traditionated in the absurd doctrines of immaterialism. Not long since a series of questions were propounded to the Latter-day Saints by the Rev. F. Austin, a Roman Catholic minister, a few of which, relating to the nature of God, we insert here together with our answers. (The whole series of questions, together with the answers, will be published in the "Millenial Star.")

Question.—"If the God of the Mormonites be like a man in figure, we must suppose the organs of the senses to have the same uses, and to be dependent on the same sources for information; his ears, in consequence, for hearing must be dependent on the transmission of sound. How, then, can he hear his people praying to him in Europe when he is in America?"

Answer.—Because the figure of two substances are alike, that is no evidence that the qualities of the two substances are alike. A wax figure may be in the shape of a man, and yet, we all know, that it has not the qualities of a man. A wise man may have the figure of a foolish man, and yet be far superior to him in the qualities of wisdom, knowledge and understanding. God may have the figure of a man, and yet have many qualities and susceptibilities which man has not got. The resemblance of figure, then, has nothing to do, as to whether other qualities shall be alike or unlike. The spiritual body of the Deity is altogether a different kind of substance from the fleshly body of man, yet they may resemble each other in figure. The substances are entirely different, therefore, though the figures should resemble each other, this is no evidence that all the qualities must be alike. The ear of the fleshly body may be affected by the vibrations of our atmosphere; the ear of a spiritual body may be affected in an entirely different manner, and yet their figures may resemble each other. The ear of the fleshly body may be affected by the vibrations of many elastic substances besides the atmosphere. Sound is conveyed through various mediums with different degrees of velocity. The ear of the spiritual body may be affected, not only by the atmosphere and other elastic mediums which affect the ear of flesh, but it also may be affected by a vast number of other more subtle and refined mediums, which may transfer sound with a velocity immensely superior to any motion with which we are acquainted. A refined medium which would convey sound with no greater velocity than that of light, would carry information from Europe to America in less than the sixtieth part of a second. But if God foreknows all things, he must have foreknown all about our prayers millions of ages before we were born, and must also have foreknown the precise time when we would pray, and the kind of spirit or feeling, and the degree of faith that would accompany each prayer; and if he knew all these things before they come to pass, he must certainly know them the moment they do come to pass; and, therefore, with a foreknowledge of all things, there would be no necessity for his receiving information of our prayers by the transmission of sound; he would know and understand our prayers the moment they were offered up, the same as he knew them and understood them in ages before they were offered up. "He that formed the ear shall he not hear." Because God knows the nature of music, that is no reason why he may not rejoice in hearing music. One use, then, of the ears of his spiritual body is, no doubt, to hear and rejoice in delightful music, not that it increases his knowledge, but it is joyful to his ear. The ear of man serves a double purpose; it is not only a medium of information, but a medium of sounds that are delightful to the mind. The ear of the Lord may be delighted with sounds, though he receive no additional knowledge by those sounds.

Question—"If he be like man, his legs must be the organs of motion; if not, what purpose do they serve? If they are, are they good for walking through the air as well as on land? Or has he wings, or how? or some organ of motion we have not got? And if we have not sot this organ, how can we be created to his image and likeness, supposing the resemblance in every thing?"