Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, jun., on a Charge of Slave Trading, under 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, on Friday the 27th, Saturday the 28th, and Monday the 30th of October, 1843, at the Central Criminal Court, Old Bailey, London / A Full Report from the Short-hand Notes of W. B. Gurney, Esq.

by Pedro de Zulueta; William Brodie Gurney

6674. Mr. Forster.] You appear to entertain a doubt whether the British settlements already on the coast have rendered as much service as they might have done for the suppression of the slave trade?—I spoke more particularly of Sierra Leone; at the same time, the connexion of the Gambia trade with the slave trade is a fact that there is no doubt about.

6675. Sir T. D. Acland.] Do you also include the settlements on the Gold Coast?—I have no knowledge of the Gold Coast settlements.

6676. Then your remark does not apply to them?—No.

6677. Mr. Forster.] When you speak in terms of disapproval of the transactions which you say have taken place between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas, do you wish the Committee to understand that you would recommend that the intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas should be put a stop to?—There is now no intercourse whatever between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas, and there has not been any for the last few years; I speak of former years.

6678. Would you think it desirable that there should be a commercial intercourse between Sierra Leone and the Gallinas?—Undoubtedly I think a commercial intercourse is the only means of eradicating the slave trade; it is the best auxiliary of the cruizers.

6679. And your opinion would be the same with respect to the intercourse between the Gambia and Bissao, that it is desirable that commercial intercourse should be continued and extended if possible between those two places?—Yes, and that it should be separated as much as possible from the slave trade.

6680. Chairman.] How do you distinguish the lawful from the unlawful trade carried on in a place where both are going on together?—It is almost impossible to distinguish them; for instance, at Bissao the principal slave dealer is also the principal produce dealer, Caetano or Kyetan Nossolino, with whom all the merchants at the Gambia have dealings; in my opinion, that is not a very beneficial trade, because it is not a direct trade with the natives at all; it is a trade between the slave dealer and the British merchants; he buys produce, with which he procures slaves; his principal trade is the slave trade, and he derives great advantages from his commerce with the Gambia in his slave trade.

6681. Would he not have the same facilities of getting the goods necessary for the slave trade from other sources?—He would not have the same facility; it would be much more difficult for him to get it from any other quarter, I apprehend.

6682. Mr. Forster.] Do you mean that it would be difficult, supposing the supply from the British settlements at the Gambia were cut off?—I think it would be more difficult.

6683. Chairman.] Could you stop an American or a Hamburgh vessel going in with the same produce?—Certainly not, nor would I stop an English vessel, but I should wish to consider the means by which we might separate the legitimate trade from the slave trade; my opinion is, that the separation would be best effected by the occupation of Bulama, which would put our merchants in a better position to trade themselves direct with the natives.