Trial of Pedro de Zulueta, jun., on a Charge of Slave Trading, under 5 Geo. IV, cap. 113, on Friday the 27th, Saturday the 28th, and Monday the 30th of October, 1843, at the Central Criminal Court, Old Bailey, London / A Full Report from the Short-hand Notes of W. B. Gurney, Esq.

by Pedro de Zulueta; William Brodie Gurney

6794. Mr. Aldam.] Did any British vessels attempt to go in during that period with goods?—No, not while I was there.

6795. Chairman.] Did any vessels of any nation come in with lawful goods during that period?—There is a list of them in the correspondence.

6796. Mr. Forster.] Then if a British vessel, laden with lawful merchandise, had attempted to enter the Gallinas, you would have seized her?—Not so, exactly; but if British vessels had come under the same circumstances as American vessels did, with cargoes consigned from Pedro Blanco to Thomas Buron, both notorious slave dealers, to be paid for at the Havannah, or in dollars there, I certainly should have seized them.

6797. How could you have known how the goods were to be paid for?—I should have considered it a clear case of aiding and abetting the slave trade, as clear as it is possible for any thing to be.

6798. How could you have learned that the goods would be paid for at the Havannah in dollars?—I think it is immaterial whether they were paid for in dollars at the Havannah or at the Gallinas; but the fact that they were not paid for in produce, and that it was distinctly putting goods into the hands of the Spaniard Buron to buy slaves with, would, in my opinion, make it a clear case of aiding and abetting the slave trade.

6799. Chairman.] And you would argue, from those circumstances, that guilty knowledge could not be absent?—Guilty knowledge could not be absent, in my opinion, in such a case. It may repeatedly happen that, in default of proving their guilty knowledge, people may escape; whereas every one but the criminal himself perfectly well knows the character of the trade which is going on, and which alone could be going on at such a place. Sierra Leone juries are exceedingly careful to have the fact of the knowledge imprinted upon the mind of the culprit proved to them; and unless it is proved they will not convict.

6800. Mr. Forster.] At all events, you would have assumed the guilty knowledge, and seized the vessel under the supposed circumstances?—I should; and had I not done so, I think my conduct would have been open to a court-martial.

6801. You have stated that you think the slave trade can be effectually prevented, and was effectually prevented, by a blockade at the Gallinas?—It can certainly be effectually prevented, and was effectually prevented to such an extent that during 9 or 10 months but two vessels escaped, and about 20 were captured.

6802. Then it was not necessary, for the purpose of putting down the slave trade there, to destroy the Spanish property?—My reflection in such a case always would be, the miseries that the slaves on shore were enduring in consequence of this; and I should always be eager to take every opportunity of relieving them from it. It would be undoubtedly the most effectual measure possible.

6803. The using means to put down the slave trade, or to throw difficulties in the way of the slave trade, carries a moral justification with it, which no one can question; but do you think the means you took in that case were altogether justifiable, upon the ground of example to the natives, and the native chiefs; do not you think they might misunderstand those proceedings, and that it might lead to conduct on their part prejudicial to the interests of British commerce?—I think not in any way whatever; I think the operation would be the opposite.