10416. How many years ago?—In the course of these 15 or 20 years that we have been engaged in business with them; all that I could see in a moment by my books.
10417. Have you sent any goods of that description to the Havannah recently?—Not very recently; I think not for some years.
10418. Have you sent any goods of that description since you first began to send goods out direct to the coast of Africa?—They have been mixed; I cannot draw a distinction between the two destinations; some have gone to the Havannah, some to the Gallinas.
10419. Have those supplies of English manufactured goods, which heretofore went to the Havannah, to be used there for promoting the slave trade, been more recently sent direct from this country to the coast of Africa?—No, I do not think that is the case; I should think the contrary is more likely to be the case, but I think we have shipped in some months, or in some years, partly to the Havannah, and partly to the Gallinas.
10420. If the coast of Africa be their ultimate destination, will not they go out at a cheaper cost to the owner if they go direct from this country, than if they go circuitously first to Havannah, and then to the coast of Africa?—I think that is very doubtful indeed, because the freights to Havannah are so miserably low that I believe they can be taken for almost nothing; in Liverpool, English vessels loading for Havannah, load for any thing you will choose to give them.
10421. Has the trade of Pedro Martinez increased or diminished the last few years in that particular kind of goods?—I think it is neither more nor less: I think it is just about the same. I believe for the last three or four years it has been less altogether to both places, but it has diminished equally; I cannot say when it is increased in the one part or diminished in the other.
10422. How long have you conducted the trade upon the coast of Africa?—As I said before, I do not think we have conducted any trade on the coast of Africa, either legal or illegal.
10423. How long have you acted as agents for Martinez, on the coast of Africa?—As long as we have had any connexions with Martinez; it is part and parcel of other operations; that is to say, in the multitude of other operations that have intervened we have shipped goods as I have said.
10424. Did that part of your operations for him spring up after your first connexion with Martinez had commenced?—No, it is part of a mass of business all mixed up together.
10425. Mr. Forster.] In the extensive transactions of your house, these shipments, whether to Havannah or the coast of Africa, form a very trifling proportion?—I can only leave the Committee to judge for themselves as to that, after what I have stated.