Mr. Justice Maule. Just as if you were to ask, why do people give bank notes in England for guineas or sovereigns: it is just what they want.
Mr. Kelly. With regard to these articles you have mentioned, when exported to various parts of Africa, is the return made sometimes in doubloons or money, and sometimes in ivory, dye-wood, palm oil, and other commodities produced there?—If you will let me answer the question in my own way, I can do it more satisfactorily. Where goods are landed, and doubloons are obtained in exchange, the doubloons come from the Spaniards, and I never knew a Spaniard engaged in any trade upon the coast of Africa but the slave trade: when you get produce in exchange, it is more likely you get that from the natives.
Do you mean to say, that the Spaniards who trade upon the coast of Africa do not give produce for the merchandise that goes there; I am not speaking merely of the Gallinas?—I think I know of but one, and I do not know whether he is a Spaniard or not. I can mention his name, it is Carrote; I think he exported palm oil as well as slaves; but he told me he was an agent to Pedro Blanco.
Do not tell us what he told you: what I ask you is, whether a return is not sometimes made in ivory and palm oil, and dye-woods?—The question calls for an answer which I cannot give in a satisfactory manner.
You do not do justice to your own understanding.—I wish to give you every information.
You never saw any of the house of Zulueta & Co. in the course of your travels on the coast of Africa?—Never to the best of my recollection.
Do you know any of them?—No: I saw Mr. Zulueta before the Committee of the Privy Council for the first time.
Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant Talfourd.
You have been asked if you saw any slave fittings when you seized the Augusta; did you take up any of the cargo?—No, I did not; I went into the hold.
Do you know whether the slave fittings were what could be taken to pieces and stowed away?—The hatches were grated when I first seized her. When I seized her the second time she had new hatches and no gratings at all. I saw nothing to induce me to believe she had slave fittings when I seized her as the Augusta, though I had heard that.